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Speaker 1: Yesterday. You may have heard on the show as well. Declan.

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Speaker 1: Lavity's mum, Samara, had written what can only be described

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Speaker 1: really as a heart wrenching post on social media earlier

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Speaker 1: this week. Now she called out the Chief Minister, really

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Speaker 1: questioning what the government is doing in the wake of

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Speaker 1: her son's death. Now joining me on the line right

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Speaker 1: now is Samara Lavity. Good morning to you, Samara.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Thank you for having me back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time this morning. Samara,

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Speaker 1: You've had an unimaginable year. Before I asked the other questions,

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Speaker 1: how are you traveling at the moment?

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Speaker 2: Not great?

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm so sorry, Samara. I honestly I can't. Like

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Speaker 1: I've said before, I cannot imagine how you're feeling at

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Speaker 1: the moment. And when I read your post on social

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Speaker 1: media earlier this week, I thought I can, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: you must be in a lot of pain, and you

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Speaker 1: must be incredibly frustrated by what you're seeing unfolding in

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Speaker 1: the territory.

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Speaker 2: Unbelievably, it is just it's phenomenal, Like I just like

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Speaker 2: I don't even have words for it right now. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's just pain that my kids definite siblings

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Speaker 2: and the rest of his family and the wider community

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Speaker 2: are experiencing as a result of this. Is has just

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Speaker 2: it's shaken us all completely to our core.

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Speaker 1: Samara, Please don't apologize for your emotion, because you know

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Speaker 1: the like, honestly, the whole of the territory is with you,

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Speaker 1: and and you know we like just know that we

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Speaker 1: have our arms around you right now. So please don't

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Speaker 1: apologize for your emotion. What prompted you to like that post?

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Speaker 2: I read the comments made by natashaphiles in regards to.

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Speaker 1: That.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't it was tragic that Declan had passed away,

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Speaker 2: but he was just one of a number of other

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Speaker 2: tragic passings and we can't figle out one particular person,

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Speaker 2: which to me just completely disregarded and minimize the nature

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Speaker 2: of Declan's death and the impact that it had on

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Speaker 2: the community. And it just it just seems like the

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Speaker 2: biggest slap in the face to both me, my family

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Speaker 2: and yet the broader community because Declan's death was completely preventable.

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Speaker 1: Samara, I spoke to the Chief Minister yesterday and I

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Speaker 1: read out a part of the post that you had

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Speaker 1: that you put up online. I want you to take

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Speaker 1: a bit of a listen to what she had said

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Speaker 1: yesterday in relation to the government's response. Overnight, Samara Lavity,

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Speaker 1: Declan Lavity's mum, has taken to social media to really

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Speaker 1: take aim at you and what she sees as a

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Speaker 1: real lack of action around crime. It follows the opposition's

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Speaker 1: attempt to get some information yesterday during estimates around your

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Speaker 1: government's response to crime. Samara is questioning why you're not

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Speaker 1: doing more around bail laws. Why aren't you acting on

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Speaker 1: urgency with this.

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Speaker 3: Katie, I again my condolences to Samara and her family

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Speaker 3: and Declan's friends. This is a matter before the courts,

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Speaker 3: and I know that that family and those friends what

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Speaker 3: they need is justice and I don't want to make

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Speaker 3: commentary that may interrupt that. But stepping away from that,

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Speaker 3: we may changes at the time in March on urgency

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Speaker 3: around the presumption of bail for edge weapon offenses. So

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Speaker 3: we acted immediately and we have built upon that. We

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Speaker 3: are not only reviewing the bail offenses, we are also

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Speaker 3: looking at the work around that knife crime strategy, and

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Speaker 3: that has been underway for some time. So Katie, there

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Speaker 3: is a number of things happening in this space, and

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Speaker 3: there has already been action.

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Speaker 1: Samara. Do you think that the government's presumption of no

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Speaker 1: bail for edged weapon offenses is enough? And do you

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Speaker 1: think that what the Chief Minister outlined then is enough? No?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. The bail changes apply to twenty two different

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Speaker 2: types of control weapons and thirty one prohibited types of weapons,

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Speaker 2: which is all great in theory, but you need to

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Speaker 2: have the ability to enforce those fail laws, and at

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Speaker 2: the moment they're not being enforced. You can have all

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Speaker 2: the laws you want in the world, but unless they're

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Speaker 2: being enforced, they're not going to be of any use.

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Speaker 1: Samara. The opposition wants serious violent offenders to start with

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Speaker 1: a position of no bail. Do you think that that

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Speaker 1: is more in line with the communities expectatortions?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, to pick up a weapon, whether it's an edged

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Speaker 2: weapon or a blunt weapon or any sort of weapon

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Speaker 2: and take it with you into a place or use

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Speaker 2: it to straighten a person requires several steps. You have

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Speaker 2: to pick it up, you have to have the in print,

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Speaker 2: you have to be willing to use it. And at

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Speaker 2: this stage none of that seems to have diminished. These

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Speaker 2: laws and these changes are not changing anything. It just

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Speaker 2: it looks like the offenders out there are just laughing

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Speaker 2: at the system because they know they can get away

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Speaker 2: with it. Nothing's changed. She did say that we need

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Speaker 2: to wait for that three month period for the statistics

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Speaker 2: to come back. But and it's totally when you look

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Speaker 2: at what's being reported and what people are reporting, and

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Speaker 2: I getting a lot of messages from a lot of

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Speaker 2: different people who are terrified to be in their homes

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Speaker 2: at night, They're terrified to go out shopping. I had

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Speaker 2: a friend that I made sadly as a result of

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Speaker 2: my son's death, who were shopping and thought she was

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Speaker 2: being followed and ended up absolutely sobbing in her car

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Speaker 2: because she thought she was going to get nice just

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Speaker 2: putting her groceries in the back of her vehicle. So,

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Speaker 2: and this was only about four or five weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: So and this is the members and just laughing at it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, people are changing their way of life,

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Speaker 1: They're changing the way that they do things because they

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that they stay safe or try

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Speaker 1: their best to Samara, can you talk me through you

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Speaker 1: know what, Look, what do you think needs to happen

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Speaker 1: here and what would declan law look like?

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Speaker 2: I think The very first thing that needs to happen

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Speaker 2: is there needs to be an acknowledgment by Natasha File

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Speaker 2: and her government of the concerns that the people have.

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Speaker 2: Instead of being diminished, disregarded, disrespected and outright gaslighted. People

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Speaker 2: are screaming that this is happening and she is just

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Speaker 2: completely ignoring and making fun of people who are really

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Speaker 2: really stressed.

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Speaker 1: It's, you know, and I think that when people sit

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Speaker 1: down and watch Parliament and watch question Time and you know,

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Speaker 1: watch some of what goes on, that's where it becomes

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Speaker 1: incredibly infuriating. And that is the actual place, you know,

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Speaker 1: inside Parliament where we actually want laws to be debated.

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Speaker 1: We want changes to be debated, and we want it

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Speaker 1: done in a serious way so that we can see

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Speaker 1: some change, so that so that no other family has

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Speaker 1: to go through what your family is experiencing.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and whiles I am fairly physically removed from what

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Speaker 2: is happening over there, I live in ken I am

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Speaker 2: seeing what's happening. When questions are being put to the

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister, she's either completely ignoring or sigueing away onto

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Speaker 2: something else, and she will not outright answer anything. People

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Speaker 2: just want an acknowledgement that this is happening. They want

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Speaker 2: her to go, Yes, I can see that this is happening,

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Speaker 2: and this is what we're going to do as opposed

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Speaker 2: to I know it's just fair aware and tear, or

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Speaker 2: it's this, or it's that. Just the government just needs

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Speaker 2: to say, yes, we can see this and we are

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Speaker 2: working towards it. And that's that's the feedback that I'm getting,

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Speaker 2: is that people feel like they're being a gas lighted. No, No,

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Speaker 2: this isn't happening. No, that's not happening. Oh it's fair

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Speaker 2: wear and hair. People are angry and frustrated that they're

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Speaker 2: not being listened.

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Speaker 1: To, Samara. On top of you know that acknowledgment of

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Speaker 1: the concerns that people have, what do you want to

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Speaker 1: see change when it comes to the legislation that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government have in place right now to avoid

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Speaker 1: a similar situation or to avoid another young person's life

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Speaker 1: being lost or person of any age. You know, I

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Speaker 1: like what your family's gone through.

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Speaker 2: Well, presumption of fail for a first defense is a

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Speaker 2: big start. If you've gone out and you've already started someone,

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Speaker 2: there's a reasonable expectation that you're not going to be

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Speaker 2: particularly afraid to go and do that again. So that

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Speaker 2: needs to be seen as a fairly strong starting point

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Speaker 2: that against presumption of bail. If it was a heat

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Speaker 2: of the moment thing, and someone's been opportunistic, that's a

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Speaker 2: very different thing and to inclined intent, and that needs

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Speaker 2: to be looked at as a as a separate issue.

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Speaker 2: But somebody who's picked up a weapon and taken it

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Speaker 2: with them, the intent is there, whether or not you

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Speaker 2: intend to use it. You've gone to the effort to

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Speaker 2: pick up something and take it with you, and the

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Speaker 2: person on the other end has a reasonable expectation that

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Speaker 2: they're going to be on the receiving end or in

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Speaker 2: assault of sub court.

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Speaker 1: So, Smar, it sounds for me to stop that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you have You've actually done. You know,

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Speaker 1: you've done quite a bit of homework and research in

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Speaker 1: terms of our laws at the moment, in terms of

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Speaker 1: our bail law. And I have no doubt that it

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Speaker 1: is research and homework that you never ever thought you

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Speaker 1: would have had to do.

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Speaker 2: No, never, definitely used to tell me how bad it was,

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Speaker 2: and I thought he was joking. I thought he was

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Speaker 2: being a little dramatic. He wasn't. And when the night

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Speaker 2: after he died, when I came to Darwin to bring

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Speaker 2: my son home, I was assaulted with an hour of

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Speaker 2: being there on a completely separate, unrelated event that had

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with why I was there, And that

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Speaker 2: just really brought home to me that he hadn't been exaggerating.

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Speaker 2: That seems really were as bad as he was telling

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Speaker 2: me they were.

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Speaker 1: Samara, what happened in the incident where you were assaulted

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Speaker 1: or are you able to say or is there a

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Speaker 1: legal action? I don't want to put you in any

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, any bad situation.

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Speaker 2: No, it was a youth offender and I was struck

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Speaker 2: in the back with a rock.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, So on top of what you were

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Speaker 1: already dealing with, then that happened.

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Speaker 2: Yep. We had literally flown into dar when dropped our

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Speaker 2: bags at the hotel and gone over to pick up

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Speaker 2: some groceries. And it was whilst we were walking back

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Speaker 2: to the hotel with our groceries I had my back

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Speaker 2: to the offender and I was hit quite hard in

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Speaker 2: the back with a rock.

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Speaker 1: Ohesome A. Honestly, I don't even know what to say

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Speaker 1: after what your family's been through and the absolute heartache

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Speaker 1: and tragic circumstances that you've had to face to have

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Speaker 1: something like that go on as well. When you arrive

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Speaker 1: in dar and, yeah, you must have been thinking to yourself,

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Speaker 1: what kind of place is this?

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Speaker 2: I I didn't really cried up until that point. I'd

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Speaker 2: been in too much shop. I got back to my

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Speaker 2: hotel and I just fell apart and could not stop

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Speaker 2: crying because all of a sudden it was so real

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Speaker 2: that not only had my son I had been stabbed

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Speaker 2: to death the night before, but as soon as I

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Speaker 2: get into town, I'm assaulted. And all I had done

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Speaker 2: was going and pick up some groceries for my daughter

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Speaker 2: and I to be able to have something to eat

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Speaker 2: that night, and completely unprovoked, I had my back to

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Speaker 2: the offender and just got slammed in the back with

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Speaker 2: a rock that left a bruise that hurt for quite

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Speaker 2: a few days.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Samara, I'm so sorry for what your family has endured,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so like, I just feel really bad that

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Speaker 1: you've You know that when you're hear that that's what

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Speaker 1: you've experienced as well, And you know, I do know

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Speaker 1: that you You've had a lot of love from the

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Speaker 1: community as well, and I really hope that you feel

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Speaker 1: that love and that support as well throughout you know

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Speaker 1: what the indescribable circumstances what you've been through. But I

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Speaker 1: just I do really want you to know that that

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Speaker 1: Territorians support you. And I know you've had such a

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Speaker 1: shitty time and you know, hearing that that has happened

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Speaker 1: as well, I do just want you to know that

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Speaker 1: that we're you know, us locals are not okay with

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Speaker 1: what's happened to you.

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Speaker 2: The amount of support and love that we have had

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Speaker 2: has just been phenomenal. When I wrote my post the

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Speaker 2: other night, it was a bit of a dut punch

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Speaker 2: reaction and it's just really really hurts that the support

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Speaker 2: that I've had both when this all happened and through

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Speaker 2: the period of death one funeral and then the memorial

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Speaker 2: and now there has just been so and overwhelm me.

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Speaker 2: And I cannot tell you how grateful I am to

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Speaker 2: the Border community for the sheer love and support and

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Speaker 2: care that we have been shown.

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Speaker 1: Well, Samara, I really appreciate you speaking to me this morning.

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Speaker 1: I know it's not been easy for you, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I just really appreciate you speaking to us, and I

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Speaker 1: know that the community appreciates it as well. To me,

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Speaker 1: there is nothing more powerful than your voice at this

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Speaker 1: point in time, so I really do appreciate your time

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Speaker 1: and thank you for coming and having a.

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Speaker 2: Chat with us. Thank you so much for having me

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Speaker 2: on and leaving me be able to say this.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Samara. We will talk to you again soon and

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Speaker 1: hopefully we'll start to see some change.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I hope so too.

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Speaker 1: Thanks