1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Now we are continuing the discussion about growth in the 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: housing market in Darwin and the Federal government's five percent 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: home by a deposit scheme, with the Property Council of 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Australia and Northern Territory Executive Director Ruth Palmer joining me 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: on the line. Good morning to your Ruth. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie. Ruth. 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: We've spoken quite a bit about the property prices this 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: morning and spoken a bit over recent days as well 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: about this five percent home by a deposit scheme. How 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: rapidly have those house prices in Darwin like from the 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: Property Council's perspective, they seem to have increased quite a 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: bitch in recent months. 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Katie, And as you know, we do our 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: quarterly report now that is able to now track that 15 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: data but also look at the trends that are happening 16 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: and across the territory. We can say that those prices 17 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: have significantly jumped to one of the biggest in the 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: country and especially in places like Alice Springs as well. 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: We've seen that growth. The last quarter showed that the 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: growth was actually higher than and so we have seen 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: a quite a big increase in our median house prices 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 2: and our sales, and as we've spoken about before as well, 23 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: a lot of interest from those sort of those buyers, 24 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: agents and investors coming in because our rental returns up 25 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: here again are the best in the country and people 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: have now seen that they've cottoned onto it. And we've 27 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 2: seen that houses aren't even going to market in some instances, 28 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: so they don't even hit sort of real estate dot com. 29 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: So we are seeing that movement. So you know, with 30 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: this price cap, it it has left the territory stuck 31 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: at six hundred thousand, but we you know, we probably 32 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: do need to see an increase in that because we 33 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 2: are seeing that nextant jump. 34 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: Ruzie I just got a message that real estate dot 35 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: Com this morning is showing a total of six standalone 36 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: houses in Darwin and Palmerston area currently listed under six 37 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. So yeah, yes, that's wild. 38 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, And so I had a look 39 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: at it yesterday as well and saw the same numbers. 40 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: And so this is where we have to be really 41 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: stick around the cap, but also the choice of where 42 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: people want to live and also where they can live. 43 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: And some people don't want to go in kunits because 44 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: then of course you've got to pay body court fee, 45 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: so yes, they well under the six hundred thousand, but 46 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 2: there are those ongoing costs associated with a unit purchase. 47 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: But I just want to I've had a look at 48 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: the numbers of the cap in the other jurisdictions and 49 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: sort of we are the only cap that are the 50 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: price that stayed at six hundred thousand. The places like 51 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: you know, Tazzy, they went from six hundred thousand to 52 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: seven hundred. Queensland have gone from seven hundred thousand to 53 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: one million to their caps. South Australia's gone from six 54 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: hundred thousand, So what we're on now up to nine 55 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: hundred thousand. You know, we're sort of seeing that significant 56 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: jump and that borrowing capacity sort of change right across 57 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,399 Speaker 2: Australia apart from the Northern Territory. And I dare say 58 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: it's because we did lag for such a long time, 59 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: but the significant growth we've had really needs to match that. 60 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: It does sound as though the governments really just got 61 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: to take a look at maybe some of the more 62 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: up to date numbers. I mean, do you think that 63 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: they need to seriously have a look at this cap 64 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: and increase it like they've done in other major cities. 65 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess it's you know, getting Loot Gosling, 66 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: our federal member, to get down to Canberra as well. 67 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: And I've had a chat with Josh Burging about this 68 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 2: too to see what they can do from a sort 69 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: of anti government perspective. But what it means though is 70 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: we know in the territory people who buy here will 71 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: often stay. So if we can assist people in getting 72 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: into the homes, then they'll put down their routes, they'll 73 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: contribute to society, you know, they'll health the economy and 74 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: it keeps the people here. And we're talking about a 75 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: lot of the time population retention and attraction, the workforce, 76 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: you know, keeping people here and to build these houses, 77 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: we need a workforce. I know down in Catherine they 78 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: really struggle with that workforce and getting those houses built. 79 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: They can often take up to a year to build, 80 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: but it's because we don't have the workforce. But getting 81 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: people here to be able to do it is what 82 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: we need to do to be able to then create 83 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: that supply. I was listening to Tim so talking about 84 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: that supply and demand. Well, we need the people's skits 85 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: to build that supply and get these houses moving quicker. 86 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: But we need to have these schemes in place to 87 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: be able to support that. 88 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: Well, and I guess we've got to really, you know, 89 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: not only take a look at that price cap so 90 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: that there's potentially more existing stock available, but also how 91 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: on earth are you meant to buy a block of 92 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: land and build a house front of six hundred k Well. 93 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: That's right, and if you do that as well, Katie, 94 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: you've got to remember that while you're building that property, 95 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: you need somewhere to live. So effectively it's almost two properties, 96 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: so you're renting as well as you're building, and so 97 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: that's another strain on the back pocket of a territory 98 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: and as well so and again we've just heard from 99 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: Tim that the rental market is extremely tight, so in 100 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: order for people to buy, they need somewhere to go. So, 101 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: you know, it is really twofold in this situation, and 102 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: it is becoming a bit of a catch twenty two 103 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 2: to get these new builds up because people need somewhere 104 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: to live in the meantime, and they're double dipping. They're 105 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: paying off a mortgage but also paying rent. So you know, 106 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 2: maybe anti government might look next time in their budgets 107 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: around some kind of rental relief to be able to 108 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: support people in renting as they build, to increase that supply. 109 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, good point. Hey, I know that many are predicting 110 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: that this scheme is going to fuel house price growth 111 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: or maybe make prices go through the roots. I mean, 112 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: what kind of roof I should say, Ruth, what kind 113 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: of implications do you think that it could have. 114 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: I think Katie is the lowest at the low for 115 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: a very long time, and we've seen very little growth 116 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 2: over the last sort of ten years, so I think 117 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: really we're just balancing the market and getting the market 118 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: to a situation where it should be. And people who 119 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: sort of bought it that peak impects times they're still 120 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: lower than what they bought at their mortgage, so you know, 121 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: they're stuck in that, you know, that mortgage jail as well, 122 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: so they can't sell their properties because their mortgages are 123 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: still too high. So I think it's all about balancing. 124 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: And I guess like the mink that goes on extra 125 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: to a mortgage just gets absorbed within that mortgage as well, 126 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: So it's you know, taking away that quick hit at 127 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: the beginning, and then that absorption comes later over that 128 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 2: twenty five to thirty years, which effectively is more affordable 129 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 2: for someone to then purchase a house as well. So 130 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: having these incentives gets people into the market, and if 131 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: it's absorbed over the long term, it's better than that 132 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 2: upfront costs right away that people may not have in 133 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: their back pockets. And I would say a lot of 134 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: people don't, like, you know, we don't just have sort 135 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: of that fifty sixty grand lying around to be able 136 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 2: to slap down to get a mortgage. 137 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: Especially first time buyer. You know, it's difficult. 138 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And I was pretty lucky when I 139 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: first built and bought a house in Zacoli. I got 140 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: the twenty five thousand dollars first paymnents grant. But I 141 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: was really lucky at the time as a single of two. 142 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: My builder was paying my rent for up to They 143 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: had a scheme where they paid my rent for up 144 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 2: to five months of the build, so up to five 145 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 2: hundred dollars a week. I got my rent covered so 146 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: I could actually build my house in it and it 147 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: enabled me to be able to then be secure in 148 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: the territory, have my own property, support my two children. 149 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: But I was supported at the time through my builder 150 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: who had a very good scheme, and you know, if 151 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: they if they didn't have that, there is no way 152 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: I would have had a property in the territory. 153 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: That is really interesting. And there's not something like that 154 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: operating in the territory at the moment as far as 155 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, no. 156 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: And I think it was just this little particular builder 157 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: that was doing it at the time. And yeah, so 158 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: there is no way I could have done a mortgage 159 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: and rent as a single mum of two. So to 160 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: me that was a note that was just a winner. 161 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: And a lot of other people are being in a 162 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: similar situation to Ruth. And you know, if we're serious 163 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: about sort of trying to get people into their own homes, 164 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: so I guess we've got to think a little innovatively. 165 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: But yeah, sometimes it's not just having a grant. Sometimes 166 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: it is about those other additional costs that someone has 167 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: to put me, like things like rank. Yeah, you know, 168 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: so these are schemes that potentially governments can look at, 169 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: and you know, especially the Northern Territory government as well 170 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: for their upcoming budgets. 171 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: Well. Ruth Palmer from the Property Council of Australia, the 172 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: Anti executive director. Really good to speak with you this morning. 173 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: I appreciate your time. 174 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot, Katie, thank you.