Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Sitdown. I'm viv Christie, managing
Speaker 1: editor of Australian Tennis magazine, and.
Speaker 2: I'm Matt Trolope, a writer for oz open dot com.
Speaker 1: And Matt, why are we sitting down this week with
Speaker 1: Matt Ebden and Storm Hunter.
Speaker 2: Well, we've actually already sat down with Matt and Storm
Speaker 2: in previous episodes of the Sitdown, which you could listen
Speaker 2: to in the feed if you would like to go back,
Speaker 2: But we found that we spent so much time with
Speaker 2: both of them that the conversation viewed into some really
Speaker 2: interesting areas around state of the game, strength of Ossie Tennis,
Speaker 2: marketing doubles, and just kind of the product of tennis
Speaker 2: generally and how it appeals to fans and maybe what
Speaker 2: can be done in terms of innovation in the game.
Speaker 2: And they both had really really interesting things to say
Speaker 2: about it. So we made the decision to actually save
Speaker 2: that conversation and bring that to you in one episode
Speaker 2: together to hear both of their thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: Matt, there's been some tinkering recently with the doubles format
Speaker 3: as we saw in Madrid. What did you make of
Speaker 3: those changes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's been a review of bubbles this last year. Really,
Speaker 4: I've been fortunate to be on the player council. We've
Speaker 4: sad and part of that review. So we've had a
Speaker 4: panel of eleven or twelve people for everybody from a
Speaker 4: top staff to X doubles players, current doubles players. We've
Speaker 4: asked singles players about doubles. We've asked tournament directors, Grand slams, media, fans, broadcasters,
Speaker 4: marketing departments, sort of try to get all the sides
Speaker 4: of this doubles product, let's say, just because we at
Speaker 4: the beginning of last week thought we've got this product
Speaker 4: here and it's sort of there. It's behind singles. That's fine,
Speaker 4: it has its place, but I didn't felt it was
Speaker 4: being maximized for whatever reason, and so we just kind
Speaker 4: of wanted to delve into it. And they've never really
Speaker 4: done a true review of you know, what's the purpose
Speaker 4: of doubles, Where does it sit? Why is it there?
Speaker 4: What's its value? What's its value to fans, to tournaments,
Speaker 4: the players, to broadcasters, to the whole game, let's say.
Speaker 4: And yeah, so we kind of worked backwards and the
Speaker 4: Madrid trial was as a result of well that working
Speaker 4: review in progress where Madrid came and said, yeah, we're
Speaker 4: excited about doubles. We're teen to try and do something
Speaker 4: here to be on the forefront of the future of doubles,
Speaker 4: let's say, and the next generation of it and where
Speaker 4: it goes as an entertainment product as well. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it was about quickening up the dead time. So obviously
Speaker 4: doubles the points are shorter, but people do like the action.
Speaker 4: They like seeing the volleys, the you know, the their
Speaker 4: skills on off the quick action points. But because the
Speaker 4: points work quicker, and the long amount of time between
Speaker 4: the points and then the changeovers, for every one minute
Speaker 4: of action, there was probably four or five minutes of
Speaker 4: dead time, let's say. So we just try to quicken
Speaker 4: up the time between the points and particularly the changeovers
Speaker 4: as well, just so that fans could come and watch
Speaker 4: the match for an hour and just see rolling action,
Speaker 4: you know, return winners, aces, volley winners, smash winners, epic
Speaker 4: point here in there, just see all those skills just
Speaker 4: on constant play and make it also more fan friendly.
Speaker 4: They've let fans be able to come and go as
Speaker 4: they wish. They can come in on the side if
Speaker 4: they want. But ten fifteen minutes, they don't have to
Speaker 4: wait for change of ends. Just all these things to
Speaker 4: make it more fan friendly and then potentially more broadcast
Speaker 4: friendly too, so that you know, if they want to
Speaker 4: have it on TV, there's not showing a product with
Speaker 4: too much dead time.
Speaker 3: If you were a tennis commissioner, what would you prioritize
Speaker 3: to make Doubles the most entertaining it can be for fans?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, marketing number one. Marketing. I think it's been
Speaker 4: clear too this last year we've seen, you know, the
Speaker 4: Doubles has never really been given its own platform of marketing.
Speaker 4: It's it's always just drip fed in and through the singles,
Speaker 4: which is fine, and that's fine. It will never be singles,
Speaker 4: and it doesn't profess to be singles. But I think,
Speaker 4: let's say, for every opportunity that singles has that Doubles
Speaker 4: doesn't have, I think Doubles has an opportunity that singles
Speaker 4: doesn't have. So where singles is long drawn out, epic,
Speaker 4: physical mental, Doubles is shorter, more execution based. There's two
Speaker 4: people on the court, so I think there is more
Speaker 4: time for it to be a bit more fan friendly,
Speaker 4: a bit more entertainment focused, a bit more like an
Speaker 4: NBA product, let's say, with more almost side entertainment or
Speaker 4: music happening, or fans being able to engage more with players. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think it's no secret that all sports these days
Speaker 4: are going towards more fan friendly, entertainment based and let's
Speaker 4: say even slightly quickening things up where possible. Obviously, don't
Speaker 4: want to ruin the product. It's important to maintain our
Speaker 4: traditions and our heritage of why our game is great.
Speaker 4: But if we can modify a little bit just to
Speaker 4: make that entertainment product purely for fans, for it to
Speaker 4: be fun and engaging, but then also as a spectator
Speaker 4: sport to watch not only at the tournament but online
Speaker 4: streaming on TV, I think it's the best formula for
Speaker 4: a whole sport. Movie forward just doubles. But even see
Speaker 4: those two.
Speaker 2: And hearing you talk like this, obviously you're on the
Speaker 2: player council, it sounds like you're someone that is invested
Speaker 2: in like the future of the sport. You're passionate about
Speaker 2: tennis and you want to see it be as good
Speaker 2: as it can be. There's been for years now so
Speaker 2: much conversation about what will tennis look like when the
Speaker 2: big three go and when Serena goes, and we're now
Speaker 2: starting to see it. Roger and Serena have gone Rafa's
Speaker 2: towards the end. But at the same time, we've got
Speaker 2: now Carlos Alcarez, the world number one and two, Sinner
Speaker 2: and Alcarez and Fiontek and Goff and they're all twenty
Speaker 2: three and under. And when you see this new generation
Speaker 2: coming up, is the future in good hands despite us
Speaker 2: coming out of what is like a golden generation of tennis.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, and great question, and I'm glad you asked.
Speaker 4: So it really is. I mean, this year alone, we've
Speaker 4: seen record crowds, records, spectatorships, views online rome. I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously it was raph As last row as well, so
Speaker 4: they had a part in that. But even the tournaments
Speaker 4: where these guys are not, people are coming for the events.
Speaker 4: And that's also one thing we've also discovered in doubles.
Speaker 4: People aren't necessarily just coming to watch singles or doubles
Speaker 4: or this person or that person. And even if we
Speaker 4: look back the last ten twenty years, sure you can
Speaker 4: find three or four or five incredible marquee players that
Speaker 4: will sell out a stadium just with their own name
Speaker 4: Federer and Nadal, Djokovic, maybe any Murray in the UK
Speaker 4: or whatever. But other than that, there's guys who are
Speaker 4: in the top ten or in the top ten, in
Speaker 4: the top twenty that are kind of sleeper names that
Speaker 4: they're not going to necessarily just with their name phil
Speaker 4: a stadium, but people are coming for the event. So
Speaker 4: that's what we've seen with the AO. Now, people are
Speaker 4: coming because they want to go to the AO. They
Speaker 4: don't necessarily have to go and see Hubert Hurtkash, who's
Speaker 4: the number eight player in the world. I don't think
Speaker 4: they really care that much about that. They want to
Speaker 4: see great tennis. They know they're going to get it.
Speaker 4: They're going to get the best players in the world
Speaker 4: all competing against each other for big prize money, big titles,
Speaker 4: let's say. And that's what it's becoming about. So I'm
Speaker 4: kind of glad in a way that our sport, of course,
Speaker 4: it's about your heroes and your champions, and it always is.
Speaker 4: Those people carry they carry it. But I think tennis
Speaker 4: has done well this last fifteen years in the marketing
Speaker 4: and gross space to market you know, fifty players, one
Speaker 4: hundred players, the next gen players, people from their own
Speaker 4: country getting highlighted more, you know, Davis Cup, this, that
Speaker 4: and the other, and growing the whole tennis ecosystem from
Speaker 4: the young players, the middle aged players, the older players,
Speaker 4: even the ex players, the legends. The coaches are now
Speaker 4: even more in the limelight on TV. But bringing coaching in.
Speaker 4: So you said Alca has one Carls Ferrero is a
Speaker 4: former world number one. Then he's forty five or fifty
Speaker 4: years old, whatever he is, and a lot of people
Speaker 4: out there wouldn't know it, but the guy's you know,
Speaker 4: big world number one, is incredible player, and now he's
Speaker 4: taking a huge part because you know, you see him
Speaker 4: on the sidelines constantly coaching. And so yeah, so to
Speaker 4: now I have alkaraz Sinna coming up. I mean I've
Speaker 4: seen these guys since they started three, four, five years
Speaker 4: ago in qualifying of some of the tour events or
Speaker 4: sort of like, jeez, who's that guy. He's a serious player.
Speaker 4: I was like, that's not normal what that guy's doing.
Speaker 4: And it's no secret been able to follow those guys
Speaker 4: the last few years and their progression, and it's no
Speaker 4: secret that they will then take over and it's the
Speaker 4: same and we sort of think, oh Federer or whatever,
Speaker 4: but you've got to remember that before them, it was
Speaker 4: sam Press and Agasy and whoever else. So those guys
Speaker 4: came when probably people will going, oh, will tennis ever
Speaker 4: be the same without sam Press and Agasy? And then
Speaker 4: look what happened. You know, Federer was born and Nadal
Speaker 4: was born, in Djokovic and now you had Medvedevi in
Speaker 4: there little and then you know, now Alkaraz and Sinner
Speaker 4: are born. And the way they're tracking, al Karaz is
Speaker 4: tracking better than Rafa Roger and Djokovic combined. So he's
Speaker 4: on track to win in I mean, probably at least
Speaker 4: ten slams, but twenty twenty five, thirty is not impossible
Speaker 4: the way he's tracking so similar with Sinner, he's one
Speaker 4: one now. But I mean, and they are incredibly hard
Speaker 4: to get. And when when people go, oh, he's gonna
Speaker 4: win thirty slams, you know, let's just be a little
Speaker 4: bit realistic here. And then the field's incredibly hard. It's
Speaker 4: incredibly tough physically, mentally, it's it basically takes a human
Speaker 4: operating at their full capacity with a lot of people
Speaker 4: around them and a lot of luck and all these
Speaker 4: things to go right to win that many as Novak
Speaker 4: and Raffa have. Let's say, but these guys are now
Speaker 4: learning from what Ovak and Raffa did the last fifteen
Speaker 4: years with all their teams and their daughter and the
Speaker 4: doctors and the physios and coaches, let's say, to now
Speaker 4: be ahead of the game. So and this next generation,
Speaker 4: you know, beat the previous generation. And if we look
Speaker 4: at throughout history, it's actually sort of what's happened. So
Speaker 4: you know, in the fifties sixties, every decade someone's won
Speaker 4: three Wimbledons. In the next decade someone's coming one five,
Speaker 4: and you know, in the nineties s Mbres one seven
Speaker 4: and it was like, oh my gosh, that's no one
Speaker 4: will ever be that. Now, come over back them, Roger
Speaker 4: winning eight nine, ten, Raffas won twelve Frenchies or something,
Speaker 4: you know. So it's natural that every generation will learn
Speaker 4: from the previous generations and probably get better the science
Speaker 4: around it, and probably the results get better. So we're
Speaker 4: in for an exciting time this next ten years.
Speaker 2: When we chatted to Matt Ebden for this podcast, we
Speaker 2: asked him about the changes to doubles that were debuted
Speaker 2: in Madrid and Apparently that involved a lot of consultation
Speaker 2: with the player counsel and other stakeholders about how do
Speaker 2: we improve the product that is doubles. You're one of
Speaker 2: the top doubles players in the world and you're watching
Speaker 2: a lot of tennis. Now, like, what is to you
Speaker 2: the fan experience watching tennis and consuming it. Do you
Speaker 2: think we're doing a good job? Is there something tennis
Speaker 2: could do better? And I don't know, what would you
Speaker 2: like to see, maybe to particularly improve doubles, because they're
Speaker 2: often saying we need to get more fans invested in doubles,
Speaker 2: but maybe just.
Speaker 5: Generally, Yeah, I think for me, one of the biggest
Speaker 5: things is like trying to shorten up the time between
Speaker 5: points and sets, toilet breaks, like those type of things,
Speaker 5: because as a fan, like when you're watching the match,
Speaker 5: like you kind of you're so invested into it, and
Speaker 5: then when there's like a long break, you kind of
Speaker 5: like almost you kind of get over it. I'll go
Speaker 5: like start cooking, then you kind of forget about it.
Speaker 5: In a way, I definitely think like we can, yeah,
Speaker 5: kind of shorten like either warm ups again or just
Speaker 5: in between points, like there's so much like dead time,
Speaker 5: especially in doubles because the points are like I don't
Speaker 5: know what the average rally length would be, but it
Speaker 5: wouldn't be that long.
Speaker 3: Obviously, in singles.
Speaker 2: Might be shorter than singles, right, it would.
Speaker 5: One hundred percent be shorter than singles. It must be
Speaker 5: like three or four kind of shots macs. Whereas singles,
Speaker 5: I understand it's longer. You do need that recovery time,
Speaker 5: and especially if you're playing on a big court because
Speaker 5: there's so much more space you've got to walk from
Speaker 5: and get.
Speaker 2: Your toil out to get to the towels. Actually like
Speaker 2: a ten twenty walk.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so like all that stuff kind of yeah impacts that.
Speaker 5: But I think in doubles, like we can have shorter breaks.
Speaker 5: You don't need like kind of all this time. But
Speaker 5: in terms of the product, like there's a lot of
Speaker 5: on the women's side, I find there's a lot of
Speaker 5: singles players playing doubles. Maybe on the men there's more
Speaker 5: doubles specific players and the singles guys don't play as much.
Speaker 5: And that's what they're trying to do is get more
Speaker 5: singles players to play doubles, so then the fans will
Speaker 5: probably be a bit more I guess engaged. But on
Speaker 5: the women's side, like there's actually a lot of players that, yeah,
Speaker 5: singles players that play doubles and who are doing really well,
Speaker 5: like Coco, great example, Elise mertens Kaleeni French Finals, see
Speaker 5: exactly Cat my partner who I was playing with. Like,
Speaker 5: there's so many actually that that play and I think
Speaker 5: people get invested into that story as well. So I
Speaker 5: mean I didn't mind the trial I found, to be honest,
Speaker 5: some of the singles players that were playing in Madrid
Speaker 5: in the men's doubles, like I still didn't really know
Speaker 5: who they were, Like they were ranked maybe sixty or seventy,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, I don't really see why they should
Speaker 5: get in over a doubles guy who's ranked forty in
Speaker 5: the world or thirty in the world. So I think
Speaker 5: it's a good concept, but I think they probably need
Speaker 5: to yeah, just yeah, just I guess edited and work
Speaker 5: out kind of the entry requirements and yeah, if they
Speaker 5: want like top ten guys to play, do they get
Speaker 5: a wild card or kind of like a different type
Speaker 5: of entry system or however it's going to look. But
Speaker 5: it is interesting because then you go to Indian Wells
Speaker 5: and they love.
Speaker 2: Doubles there, doubles and Indian Wells is like so many
Speaker 2: singles players playing. They've got something downpat there that seems
Speaker 2: to attract everyone to play both.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't. I think maybe it's a two week
Speaker 5: event because if you lose early, you don't really want
Speaker 5: to go to Miami like super early, so they almost
Speaker 5: like want to stay, which I think now that the
Speaker 5: Master events are all going to become two week events starting,
Speaker 5: I think next year they're all going to be two weeks,
Speaker 5: so that will probably get a few more singles players
Speaker 5: to play. Also, prize money is a good incentive because
Speaker 5: I think if you do the Indian Wells double in
Speaker 5: singles and doubles, you might get a bonus as well.
Speaker 5: I think there's like something maybe on the men's side,
Speaker 5: so yeah, yeah, And then I think the fans just
Speaker 5: like they all play doubles themselves, like they're a little
Speaker 5: bit older, and I think they appreciate like watching doubles
Speaker 5: because that's something that they can relate to because like
Speaker 5: I'll get fans ask me Indian well I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: so why did you play like the I formation or
Speaker 5: like the.
Speaker 2: Actually asks fall tennis nerd on you yeah, and I
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 4: I love it's great.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so it's yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I didn't really answer that very well. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: you absolutely did. And I think it was one thing
Speaker 2: we thought when we were talking to matter. It's just
Speaker 2: good that they're kind of having those conversations and like
Speaker 2: not standing still, like how can we get better? What
Speaker 2: can we try? And as you said, like they tried
Speaker 2: these things, this was good. Maybe they have to tweak
Speaker 2: that or revisit that, but it's kind of innovation and experimentation,
Speaker 2: why not.
Speaker 5: Yeah, one hundred percent. I think that's something in tennis
Speaker 5: like maybe they haven't done as well. Is like there's
Speaker 5: a lot of sports that are like trying to find
Speaker 5: new ways to kind of keep it entertaining or bring
Speaker 5: in drawing a crowd and like just yeah, keep evolving,
Speaker 5: like you kind of need to keep evolving. And like
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, I think Matt's on the council, so
Speaker 5: he's probably yeah, right in those conversations with what's going on.
Speaker 5: But no, I think it's actually really good that they're
Speaker 5: trialing things. And yeah, when you do something for the
Speaker 5: first time, it's never going to be like perfect, So
Speaker 5: you've got to kind of adapt and change and adjust.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think for me, shortening a few things
Speaker 5: is positive for ten, Like not for us as players,
Speaker 5: but as fans. I think is really important. Even just
Speaker 5: the fact that now this year, like fans are allowed
Speaker 5: to walk in between yeah, in between points and stuff like.
Speaker 2: It's and coming not necessarily a changeover, right, Yeah, at
Speaker 2: the end of any any game.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which I think is also great because like, I
Speaker 5: don't know, if you have to wait three games or
Speaker 5: two games and it's fifteen minutes, like, it's kind of.
Speaker 2: Have you been stuck there when that's happened? I have, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's horrible, right, You're just like, can you hurry up
Speaker 2: the stairwell for twenty minutes waiting to getting because I
Speaker 2: went to the bathroom at the wrong time or something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but yeah, that was a that was achan. Did you
Speaker 2: find that tricky to because that is an adjustment for
Speaker 2: the play. Suddenly there's more movement and maybe more noise
Speaker 2: and stuff in your eyeline. Did you have any issues
Speaker 2: with that?
Speaker 5: I didn't, to be honest, like I didn't even notice.
Speaker 5: And during the Australian Open, like I had no idea
Speaker 5: about this rule change until like I just saw some
Speaker 5: comments online about some players complaining. But I mean when
Speaker 5: you're playing obviously on the outside courts, like you don't
Speaker 5: really realize because people are walking past, it's like kind
Speaker 5: of loud, so you actually kind of get used to that.
Speaker 5: But I think if you're a player who's always playing
Speaker 5: on the big courts where it's quiet, there's like you know,
Speaker 5: it's it's in the stadium court, so you probably would
Speaker 5: notice like a bit of the movement and stuff. But
Speaker 5: I think if it's as long as it's just the
Speaker 5: bottom row, maybe you can't because that's right behind where
Speaker 5: you're serving, so you can kind of get a little
Speaker 5: bit distracted or lose the ball if there's like a
Speaker 5: lot of movement. But like upper Rose, it should be
Speaker 5: every Slam or every tournament, like it should be totally fine,
Speaker 5: and even on the outside courts, like you should be
Speaker 5: able to move around because like also it creates a
Speaker 5: little bit of out as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a bit more of a buzz. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess also getting you to put your Aussie tennis
Speaker 2: hat on. We've got a group of young girls that
Speaker 2: are kind of coming up there's a whole bunch of them.
Speaker 2: You've got Taylor Preston, Tylie Gibson, Maya Joint, Olivia Gadecki.
Speaker 2: They're all now into that top two hundred and kind
Speaker 2: of trending in a really good ways. What do you
Speaker 2: make of that kind of that generation or crop of
Speaker 2: girls that are coming up and you know your connection
Speaker 2: with them, like do they ask you for advice? Do
Speaker 2: you hit with them? Like, what's what's your relationship with them?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been it's been really nice to see those
Speaker 5: younger girls come through. They're all, yeah, top two hundred,
Speaker 5: going to play Wimbled and qualities. I think Maya for
Speaker 5: the first time other than Aussie Open playing Collies of
Speaker 5: a Grand Slam. And Taylor's now been there a little
Speaker 5: bit the last i'd say six to eight months, which
Speaker 5: is great. But you know, as one of the older athletes,
Speaker 5: Australian players, I try and reach out to them and
Speaker 5: just you know, say that you know I'm here too
Speaker 5: if you ever want to chat, congratulate them on their results,
Speaker 5: check in and stuff. So Taylor, obviously Taylor and Tali
Speaker 5: are being from Wa, I've kind of I'm a little
Speaker 5: bit older, so I didn't grow up with them, but
Speaker 5: just having that, I guess Bonders of West Australian we've
Speaker 5: always kind of stayed in touch and Taylor been on
Speaker 5: the villaging kickup.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was going to say that she was in the
Speaker 2: squad with you in Brisbane, Ryan, and has been in
Speaker 2: another time.
Speaker 5: She was Orange Girl two years ago in Spain.
Speaker 2: Wait Spain. Yeah, well she was at the finals. I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure was it.
Speaker 4: Glasgow?
Speaker 5: Yes, she was there for the first time, and I
Speaker 5: think all of us on the team she was young.
Speaker 5: She was seventeen then and that so that was two
Speaker 5: years ago and we just all were amazed at how
Speaker 5: well she held herself. And I mean, first of all,
Speaker 5: her ball striking on court just went for it like
Speaker 5: didn't care that she was She was not intimidated by
Speaker 5: any of us, you know, and went for such great
Speaker 5: ball striking, super positive player. And then off the court
Speaker 5: the way she handled herself, like are you really seventeen.
Speaker 2: Or twenty two?
Speaker 4: So mature? Yeah, so mature.
Speaker 5: And I was just such a great, great person to
Speaker 5: have a round then for her to be selected for
Speaker 5: Brisbane and then to come out and play the second
Speaker 5: day as well and have her debut was for me, obviously,
Speaker 5: with everything that happened with me the day two days before.
Speaker 5: That was my highlight was to be able to watch
Speaker 5: this young girl from wa achieve this kind of milestone
Speaker 5: for the first time, to make her debut and to
Speaker 5: win and play well to win the tie for us
Speaker 5: to qualify was Yeah, it was incredible. I was so
Speaker 5: happy for her and to see her kind of having
Speaker 5: really good success and you know, going for it, going
Speaker 5: on the clay.
Speaker 4: She left straight away.
Speaker 5: From Brisie to go to Europe and get on the clay,
Speaker 5: and like she's not intimidated by anything. She's kind of
Speaker 5: going for it. And I love that she has, you know,
Speaker 5: a long term coaching relationship with Brad and they've just
Speaker 5: she's got a good head on her shoulders and that's
Speaker 5: really cool to see.
Speaker 1: Well, Matt, isn't it wonderful to hear such experienced voices
Speaker 1: giving their time to the next generation of tennis and
Speaker 1: how the game unfolds in the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think tennis is in great hands
Speaker 2: with Storm and Matt both kind of at the top
Speaker 2: of the game and interested in where it goes. Right. Well,
Speaker 2: we'll be back again next Monday. When we sit down
Speaker 2: with Alicia Mulleck on the twentieth anniversary of her run
Speaker 2: to the Olympic bronze medal in Athens. And in the meantime,
Speaker 2: you can listen to John and the team this Thursday
Speaker 2: on the Aoshow Weekly.
Speaker 1: Details for how to contact us are in the show notes,
Speaker 1: and please subscribe, rate and review.
Speaker 2: See you next week, Matt, see y Viv