WEBVTT - The Sit-Down with Matt Ebden & Storm Hunter 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.520 Hello, and welcome to the Sitdown. I'm viv Christie, managing 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.720 editor of Australian Tennis magazine, and. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.000 I'm Matt Trolope, a writer for oz open dot com. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.200 And Matt, why are we sitting down this week with 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:13.960 Matt Ebden and Storm Hunter. 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.040 Well, we've actually already sat down with Matt and Storm 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.200 in previous episodes of the Sitdown, which you could listen 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.279 to in the feed if you would like to go back, 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:23.880 But we found that we spent so much time with 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.120 both of them that the conversation viewed into some really 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.880 interesting areas around state of the game, strength of Ossie Tennis, 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.920 marketing doubles, and just kind of the product of tennis 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.600 generally and how it appeals to fans and maybe what 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.800 can be done in terms of innovation in the game. 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.000 And they both had really really interesting things to say 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:42.600 about it. So we made the decision to actually save 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.320 that conversation and bring that to you in one episode 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.080 together to hear both of their thoughts on that. 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:54.040 Matt, there's been some tinkering recently with the doubles format 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.240 as we saw in Madrid. What did you make of 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:57.000 those changes? 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.600 Yeah, so there's been a review of bubbles this last year. Really, 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.759 I've been fortunate to be on the player council. We've 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.600 sad and part of that review. So we've had a 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.039 panel of eleven or twelve people for everybody from a 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:14.080 top staff to X doubles players, current doubles players. We've 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:23.280 asked singles players about doubles. We've asked tournament directors, Grand slams, media, fans, broadcasters, 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.920 marketing departments, sort of try to get all the sides 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.200 of this doubles product, let's say, just because we at 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.800 the beginning of last week thought we've got this product 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.600 here and it's sort of there. It's behind singles. That's fine, 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.679 it has its place, but I didn't felt it was 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:44.600 being maximized for whatever reason, and so we just kind 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:46.760 of wanted to delve into it. And they've never really 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.920 done a true review of you know, what's the purpose 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.080 of doubles, Where does it sit? Why is it there? 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.240 What's its value? What's its value to fans, to tournaments, 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.680 the players, to broadcasters, to the whole game, let's say. 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.640 And yeah, so we kind of worked backwards and the 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.600 Madrid trial was as a result of well that working 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.519 review in progress where Madrid came and said, yeah, we're 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.160 excited about doubles. We're teen to try and do something 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.600 here to be on the forefront of the future of doubles, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.000 let's say, and the next generation of it and where 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.680 it goes as an entertainment product as well. So yeah, 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.200 it was about quickening up the dead time. So obviously 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.880 doubles the points are shorter, but people do like the action. 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.720 They like seeing the volleys, the you know, the their 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.640 skills on off the quick action points. But because the 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.360 points work quicker, and the long amount of time between 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.520 the points and then the changeovers, for every one minute 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.960 of action, there was probably four or five minutes of 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.640 dead time, let's say. So we just try to quicken 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.760 up the time between the points and particularly the changeovers 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.720 as well, just so that fans could come and watch 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.000 the match for an hour and just see rolling action, 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:59.520 you know, return winners, aces, volley winners, smash winners, epic 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.360 point here in there, just see all those skills just 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.160 on constant play and make it also more fan friendly. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.840 They've let fans be able to come and go as 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.760 they wish. They can come in on the side if 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:11.560 they want. But ten fifteen minutes, they don't have to 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.440 wait for change of ends. Just all these things to 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.720 make it more fan friendly and then potentially more broadcast 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.920 friendly too, so that you know, if they want to 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.320 have it on TV, there's not showing a product with 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:24.119 too much dead time. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:28.040 If you were a tennis commissioner, what would you prioritize 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.519 to make Doubles the most entertaining it can be for fans? 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:36.320 Yeah, well, marketing number one. Marketing. I think it's been 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.640 clear too this last year we've seen, you know, the 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.840 Doubles has never really been given its own platform of marketing. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.000 It's it's always just drip fed in and through the singles, 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.520 which is fine, and that's fine. It will never be singles, 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.600 and it doesn't profess to be singles. But I think, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:56.120 let's say, for every opportunity that singles has that Doubles 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.280 doesn't have, I think Doubles has an opportunity that singles 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.160 doesn't have. So where singles is long drawn out, epic, 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.560 physical mental, Doubles is shorter, more execution based. There's two 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.560 people on the court, so I think there is more 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.320 time for it to be a bit more fan friendly, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.440 a bit more entertainment focused, a bit more like an 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.000 NBA product, let's say, with more almost side entertainment or 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:23.880 music happening, or fans being able to engage more with players. Yeah, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.039 I think it's no secret that all sports these days 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.279 are going towards more fan friendly, entertainment based and let's 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.640 say even slightly quickening things up where possible. Obviously, don't 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.120 want to ruin the product. It's important to maintain our 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.919 traditions and our heritage of why our game is great. 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.919 But if we can modify a little bit just to 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:47.120 make that entertainment product purely for fans, for it to 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.000 be fun and engaging, but then also as a spectator 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.599 sport to watch not only at the tournament but online 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:58.200 streaming on TV, I think it's the best formula for 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.479 a whole sport. Movie forward just doubles. But even see 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:02.120 those two. 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.240 And hearing you talk like this, obviously you're on the 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.920 player council, it sounds like you're someone that is invested 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:09.880 in like the future of the sport. You're passionate about 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:11.640 tennis and you want to see it be as good 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.479 as it can be. There's been for years now so 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.919 much conversation about what will tennis look like when the 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.920 big three go and when Serena goes, and we're now 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.520 starting to see it. Roger and Serena have gone Rafa's 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.760 towards the end. But at the same time, we've got 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.440 now Carlos Alcarez, the world number one and two, Sinner 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.640 and Alcarez and Fiontek and Goff and they're all twenty 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.839 three and under. And when you see this new generation 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:43.720 coming up, is the future in good hands despite us 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.000 coming out of what is like a golden generation of tennis. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.799 Yeah, absolutely, and great question, and I'm glad you asked. 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.200 So it really is. I mean, this year alone, we've 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:58.680 seen record crowds, records, spectatorships, views online rome. I mean, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:00.479 obviously it was raph As last row as well, so 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.800 they had a part in that. But even the tournaments 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.520 where these guys are not, people are coming for the events. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.760 And that's also one thing we've also discovered in doubles. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.160 People aren't necessarily just coming to watch singles or doubles 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.840 or this person or that person. And even if we 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.480 look back the last ten twenty years, sure you can 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.920 find three or four or five incredible marquee players that 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.080 will sell out a stadium just with their own name 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.360 Federer and Nadal, Djokovic, maybe any Murray in the UK 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.080 or whatever. But other than that, there's guys who are 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.120 in the top ten or in the top ten, in 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.279 the top twenty that are kind of sleeper names that 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.720 they're not going to necessarily just with their name phil 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.680 a stadium, but people are coming for the event. So 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:42.520 that's what we've seen with the AO. Now, people are 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.280 coming because they want to go to the AO. They 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:49.000 don't necessarily have to go and see Hubert Hurtkash, who's 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.120 the number eight player in the world. I don't think 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:52.840 they really care that much about that. They want to 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:54.880 see great tennis. They know they're going to get it. 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.680 They're going to get the best players in the world 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.360 all competing against each other for big prize money, big titles, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:05.280 let's say. And that's what it's becoming about. So I'm 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.080 kind of glad in a way that our sport, of course, 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.360 it's about your heroes and your champions, and it always is. 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.280 Those people carry they carry it. But I think tennis 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.080 has done well this last fifteen years in the marketing 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:21.440 and gross space to market you know, fifty players, one 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.280 hundred players, the next gen players, people from their own 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.840 country getting highlighted more, you know, Davis Cup, this, that 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.120 and the other, and growing the whole tennis ecosystem from 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.960 the young players, the middle aged players, the older players, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.120 even the ex players, the legends. The coaches are now 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.720 even more in the limelight on TV. But bringing coaching in. 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.520 So you said Alca has one Carls Ferrero is a 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.800 former world number one. Then he's forty five or fifty 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.000 years old, whatever he is, and a lot of people 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.320 out there wouldn't know it, but the guy's you know, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.960 big world number one, is incredible player, and now he's 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.920 taking a huge part because you know, you see him 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.680 on the sidelines constantly coaching. And so yeah, so to 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.880 now I have alkaraz Sinna coming up. I mean I've 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.880 seen these guys since they started three, four, five years 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.040 ago in qualifying of some of the tour events or 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.720 sort of like, jeez, who's that guy. He's a serious player. 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.440 I was like, that's not normal what that guy's doing. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.240 And it's no secret been able to follow those guys 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.200 the last few years and their progression, and it's no 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.200 secret that they will then take over and it's the 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.160 same and we sort of think, oh Federer or whatever, 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.320 but you've got to remember that before them, it was 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:32.040 sam Press and Agasy and whoever else. So those guys 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.680 came when probably people will going, oh, will tennis ever 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.280 be the same without sam Press and Agasy? And then 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.520 look what happened. You know, Federer was born and Nadal 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.400 was born, in Djokovic and now you had Medvedevi in 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.240 there little and then you know, now Alkaraz and Sinner 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.600 are born. And the way they're tracking, al Karaz is 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:55.120 tracking better than Rafa Roger and Djokovic combined. So he's 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.200 on track to win in I mean, probably at least 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.640 ten slams, but twenty twenty five, thirty is not impossible 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.040 the way he's tracking so similar with Sinner, he's one 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.920 one now. But I mean, and they are incredibly hard 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:10.560 to get. And when when people go, oh, he's gonna 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.520 win thirty slams, you know, let's just be a little 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.200 bit realistic here. And then the field's incredibly hard. It's 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.880 incredibly tough physically, mentally, it's it basically takes a human 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.120 operating at their full capacity with a lot of people 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.400 around them and a lot of luck and all these 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.040 things to go right to win that many as Novak 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.000 and Raffa have. Let's say, but these guys are now 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.600 learning from what Ovak and Raffa did the last fifteen 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:36.640 years with all their teams and their daughter and the 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.920 doctors and the physios and coaches, let's say, to now 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.680 be ahead of the game. So and this next generation, 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.920 you know, beat the previous generation. And if we look 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.680 at throughout history, it's actually sort of what's happened. So 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.520 you know, in the fifties sixties, every decade someone's won 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.560 three Wimbledons. In the next decade someone's coming one five, 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.840 and you know, in the nineties s Mbres one seven 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:02.360 and it was like, oh my gosh, that's no one 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.040 will ever be that. Now, come over back them, Roger 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.280 winning eight nine, ten, Raffas won twelve Frenchies or something, 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.560 you know. So it's natural that every generation will learn 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.480 from the previous generations and probably get better the science 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:20.080 around it, and probably the results get better. So we're 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.719 in for an exciting time this next ten years. 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.800 When we chatted to Matt Ebden for this podcast, we 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.680 asked him about the changes to doubles that were debuted 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.319 in Madrid and Apparently that involved a lot of consultation 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.400 with the player counsel and other stakeholders about how do 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.560 we improve the product that is doubles. You're one of 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.079 the top doubles players in the world and you're watching 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:43.680 a lot of tennis. Now, like, what is to you 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.840 the fan experience watching tennis and consuming it. Do you 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.400 think we're doing a good job? Is there something tennis 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.160 could do better? And I don't know, what would you 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.200 like to see, maybe to particularly improve doubles, because they're 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.840 often saying we need to get more fans invested in doubles, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:10:58.800 but maybe just. 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.480 Generally, Yeah, I think for me, one of the biggest 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.920 things is like trying to shorten up the time between 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.240 points and sets, toilet breaks, like those type of things, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.480 because as a fan, like when you're watching the match, 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.640 like you kind of you're so invested into it, and 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.520 then when there's like a long break, you kind of 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.720 like almost you kind of get over it. I'll go 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:19.920 like start cooking, then you kind of forget about it. 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.000 In a way, I definitely think like we can, yeah, 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.400 kind of shorten like either warm ups again or just 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.560 in between points, like there's so much like dead time, 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.559 especially in doubles because the points are like I don't 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.040 know what the average rally length would be, but it 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:34.880 wouldn't be that long. 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:36.000 Obviously, in singles. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:37.480 Might be shorter than singles, right, it would. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.320 One hundred percent be shorter than singles. It must be 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.160 like three or four kind of shots macs. Whereas singles, 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.920 I understand it's longer. You do need that recovery time, 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.760 and especially if you're playing on a big court because 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.840 there's so much more space you've got to walk from 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:50.320 and get. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:51.720 Your toil out to get to the towels. Actually like 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:52.760 a ten twenty walk. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.480 Yeah, so like all that stuff kind of yeah impacts that. 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.000 But I think in doubles, like we can have shorter breaks. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.320 You don't need like kind of all this time. But 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.560 in terms of the product, like there's a lot of 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:05.040 on the women's side, I find there's a lot of 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.080 singles players playing doubles. Maybe on the men there's more 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.480 doubles specific players and the singles guys don't play as much. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:13.880 And that's what they're trying to do is get more 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.280 singles players to play doubles, so then the fans will 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.760 probably be a bit more I guess engaged. But on 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.400 the women's side, like there's actually a lot of players that, yeah, 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.280 singles players that play doubles and who are doing really well, 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:32.199 like Coco, great example, Elise mertens Kaleeni French Finals, see 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.320 exactly Cat my partner who I was playing with. Like, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.280 there's so many actually that that play and I think 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.600 people get invested into that story as well. So I 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.800 mean I didn't mind the trial I found, to be honest, 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.160 some of the singles players that were playing in Madrid 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.679 in the men's doubles, like I still didn't really know 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.280 who they were, Like they were ranked maybe sixty or seventy, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.360 and I'm like, I don't really see why they should 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.640 get in over a doubles guy who's ranked forty in 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.080 the world or thirty in the world. So I think 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.000 it's a good concept, but I think they probably need 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:08.040 to yeah, just yeah, just I guess edited and work 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.600 out kind of the entry requirements and yeah, if they 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.319 want like top ten guys to play, do they get 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.000 a wild card or kind of like a different type 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.320 of entry system or however it's going to look. But 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:20.920 it is interesting because then you go to Indian Wells 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:22.319 and they love. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.320 Doubles there, doubles and Indian Wells is like so many 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.280 singles players playing. They've got something downpat there that seems 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.199 to attract everyone to play both. 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.280 Yeah, I don't. I think maybe it's a two week 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.920 event because if you lose early, you don't really want 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.320 to go to Miami like super early, so they almost 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.120 like want to stay, which I think now that the 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.760 Master events are all going to become two week events starting, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:44.800 I think next year they're all going to be two weeks, 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.600 so that will probably get a few more singles players 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.800 to play. Also, prize money is a good incentive because 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.440 I think if you do the Indian Wells double in 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.520 singles and doubles, you might get a bonus as well. 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.280 I think there's like something maybe on the men's side, 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.760 so yeah, yeah, And then I think the fans just 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:03.840 like they all play doubles themselves, like they're a little 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.079 bit older, and I think they appreciate like watching doubles 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.400 because that's something that they can relate to because like 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:11.959 I'll get fans ask me Indian well I was like, oh, 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.880 so why did you play like the I formation or 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:15.520 like the. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.360 Actually asks fall tennis nerd on you yeah, and I 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:18.800 love it. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:19.600 I love it's great. 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.120 Yeah, yeah, so it's yeah, it's really cool. 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:25.040 But yeah, I don't know. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.720 Sorry, I didn't really answer that very well. No, no, no, 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:28.720 you absolutely did. And I think it was one thing 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.560 we thought when we were talking to matter. It's just 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.720 good that they're kind of having those conversations and like 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.840 not standing still, like how can we get better? What 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:37.680 can we try? And as you said, like they tried 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.680 these things, this was good. Maybe they have to tweak 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.760 that or revisit that, but it's kind of innovation and experimentation, 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:44.120 why not. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.520 Yeah, one hundred percent. I think that's something in tennis 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.720 like maybe they haven't done as well. Is like there's 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.320 a lot of sports that are like trying to find 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.360 new ways to kind of keep it entertaining or bring 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.640 in drawing a crowd and like just yeah, keep evolving, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.280 like you kind of need to keep evolving. And like 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.320 I think, yeah, I think Matt's on the council, so 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.160 he's probably yeah, right in those conversations with what's going on. 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.840 But no, I think it's actually really good that they're 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.600 trialing things. And yeah, when you do something for the 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.960 first time, it's never going to be like perfect, So 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.120 you've got to kind of adapt and change and adjust. 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:21.520 But yeah, I think for me, shortening a few things 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.080 is positive for ten, Like not for us as players, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.080 but as fans. I think is really important. Even just 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.640 the fact that now this year, like fans are allowed 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.840 to walk in between yeah, in between points and stuff like. 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.840 It's and coming not necessarily a changeover, right, Yeah, at 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.040 the end of any any game. 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.800 Yeah, which I think is also great because like, I 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:41.360 don't know, if you have to wait three games or 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.880 two games and it's fifteen minutes, like, it's kind of. 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.640 Have you been stuck there when that's happened? I have, Yeah, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.640 it's horrible, right, You're just like, can you hurry up 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.680 the stairwell for twenty minutes waiting to getting because I 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:55.760 went to the bathroom at the wrong time or something. Yeah, 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.760 but yeah, that was a that was achan. Did you 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.240 find that tricky to because that is an adjustment for 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.520 the play. Suddenly there's more movement and maybe more noise 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.360 and stuff in your eyeline. Did you have any issues 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:08.520 with that? 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.320 I didn't, to be honest, like I didn't even notice. 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.480 And during the Australian Open, like I had no idea 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.200 about this rule change until like I just saw some 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:20.640 comments online about some players complaining. But I mean when 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.640 you're playing obviously on the outside courts, like you don't 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.880 really realize because people are walking past, it's like kind 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.360 of loud, so you actually kind of get used to that. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.080 But I think if you're a player who's always playing 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.800 on the big courts where it's quiet, there's like you know, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.960 it's it's in the stadium court, so you probably would 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.080 notice like a bit of the movement and stuff. But 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:42.200 I think if it's as long as it's just the 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.760 bottom row, maybe you can't because that's right behind where 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.880 you're serving, so you can kind of get a little 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.200 bit distracted or lose the ball if there's like a 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.480 lot of movement. But like upper Rose, it should be 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.760 every Slam or every tournament, like it should be totally fine, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.040 and even on the outside courts, like you should be 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:58.800 able to move around because like also it creates a 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.680 little bit of out as well. 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:02.920 Yeah, there's a bit more of a buzz. Yeah yeah, 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.159 I guess also getting you to put your Aussie tennis 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.720 hat on. We've got a group of young girls that 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.080 are kind of coming up there's a whole bunch of them. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.000 You've got Taylor Preston, Tylie Gibson, Maya Joint, Olivia Gadecki. 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.360 They're all now into that top two hundred and kind 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.280 of trending in a really good ways. What do you 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.399 make of that kind of that generation or crop of 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.600 girls that are coming up and you know your connection 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.760 with them, like do they ask you for advice? Do 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.480 you hit with them? Like, what's what's your relationship with them? 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.080 Yeah, it's been it's been really nice to see those 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.440 younger girls come through. They're all, yeah, top two hundred, 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.960 going to play Wimbled and qualities. I think Maya for 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.720 the first time other than Aussie Open playing Collies of 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.840 a Grand Slam. And Taylor's now been there a little 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:43.760 bit the last i'd say six to eight months, which 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.960 is great. But you know, as one of the older athletes, 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.320 Australian players, I try and reach out to them and 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:51.879 just you know, say that you know I'm here too 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.760 if you ever want to chat, congratulate them on their results, 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.040 check in and stuff. So Taylor, obviously Taylor and Tali 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.440 are being from Wa, I've kind of I'm a little 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.119 bit older, so I didn't grow up with them, but 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.480 just having that, I guess Bonders of West Australian we've 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.520 always kind of stayed in touch and Taylor been on 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:09.359 the villaging kickup. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:09.640 Yeah. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:10.600 I was going to say that she was in the 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.840 squad with you in Brisbane, Ryan, and has been in 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:13.560 another time. 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.879 She was Orange Girl two years ago in Spain. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.480 Wait Spain. Yeah, well she was at the finals. I'm 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:21.360 pretty sure was it. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:24.119 Glasgow? 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.800 Yes, she was there for the first time, and I 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.880 think all of us on the team she was young. 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.400 She was seventeen then and that so that was two 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.000 years ago and we just all were amazed at how 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.800 well she held herself. And I mean, first of all, 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.239 her ball striking on court just went for it like 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.760 didn't care that she was She was not intimidated by 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.280 any of us, you know, and went for such great 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.520 ball striking, super positive player. And then off the court 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.240 the way she handled herself, like are you really seventeen. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:54.439