1 00:00:02,370 --> 00:00:04,990 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to The Sit Down. I'm Viv Christie, 2 00:00:05,110 --> 00:00:07,350 Speaker 1: Managing Editor of Australian Tennis Magazine. 3 00:00:07,610 --> 00:00:09,770 Speaker 2: And I'm Matt Trelope, a writer for AusOpen.com. 4 00:00:10,130 --> 00:00:12,230 Speaker 1: And Matt, why are we sitting down this week with 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:13,980 Speaker 1: Matt Ebden and Storm Hunter? 6 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,980 Speaker 2: Well, we've actually already sat down with Matt and Storm 7 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:18,860 Speaker 2: in previous episodes of The Sit Down, which you can 8 00:00:18,900 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: listen to in the feed if you would like to 9 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,420 Speaker 2: go back. but we found that we spent so much 10 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,550 Speaker 2: time with both of them that the conversation veered into 11 00:00:25,590 --> 00:00:28,950 Speaker 2: some really interesting areas around state of the game, strength 12 00:00:28,990 --> 00:00:31,970 Speaker 2: of Aussie tennis, marketing doubles, and just kind of the 13 00:00:32,050 --> 00:00:34,770 Speaker 2: product of tennis generally and how it appeals to fans 14 00:00:34,830 --> 00:00:37,350 Speaker 2: and maybe what can be done in terms of innovation 15 00:00:37,390 --> 00:00:39,390 Speaker 2: in the game. And they both had really, really interesting 16 00:00:39,409 --> 00:00:41,729 Speaker 2: things to say about it. So we made the decision 17 00:00:41,770 --> 00:00:44,489 Speaker 2: to actually save that conversation and bring that to you 18 00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: in one episode together to hear both of their thoughts 19 00:00:46,860 --> 00:00:47,059 Speaker 2: on that. 20 00:00:50,350 --> 00:00:53,970 Speaker 3: Matt, there's been some tinkering recently with the doubles format, 21 00:00:54,030 --> 00:00:56,190 Speaker 3: as we saw in Madrid. What did you make of 22 00:00:56,250 --> 00:00:56,950 Speaker 3: those changes? 23 00:00:57,530 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's been a review of doubles this last year, really. 24 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,740 Speaker 4: I've been fortunate to be on the player council with 25 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,540 Speaker 4: that and part of that review. So we've had a 26 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,010 Speaker 4: panel of 11 or 12 people, everybody from ATP staff 27 00:01:11,090 --> 00:01:15,190 Speaker 4: to ex-doubles players, current doubles players. We've asked singles players 28 00:01:15,310 --> 00:01:23,020 Speaker 4: about doubles. We've asked tournament directors, Grand Slams, media fans, broadcasters, 29 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,890 Speaker 4: marketing departments, sort of try to get all the sides 30 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,250 Speaker 4: of this doubles product, let's say, just because we, at 31 00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:33,390 Speaker 4: the beginning of last year, we thought we've got this 32 00:01:33,430 --> 00:01:35,929 Speaker 4: product here and it's sort of there. It's behind singles. 33 00:01:35,950 --> 00:01:39,350 Speaker 4: That's fine. It has its place, but I didn't feel 34 00:01:39,430 --> 00:01:44,209 Speaker 4: it was being maximized for whatever reason. And so we 35 00:01:44,230 --> 00:01:46,070 Speaker 4: just kind of wanted to delve into it. And they'd 36 00:01:46,110 --> 00:01:49,210 Speaker 4: never really done a, a true review of, you know, 37 00:01:49,230 --> 00:01:51,570 Speaker 4: what's the purpose of doubles? Where does it sit? Why 38 00:01:51,610 --> 00:01:54,750 Speaker 4: is it there? What's its value? What's its value to fans, 39 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,100 Speaker 4: to tournaments, to players, to broadcasters, to the whole game, 40 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,340 Speaker 4: let's say. And yeah, so we kind of worked backwards 41 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:06,340 Speaker 4: and the Madrid trial was as a result of, well, 42 00:02:07,020 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 4: that working review in progress where Madrid came and said, yeah, 43 00:02:10,340 --> 00:02:12,740 Speaker 4: we're excited about doubles. We're keen to try and do 44 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,060 Speaker 4: something here to be on the forefront of the future 45 00:02:16,100 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 4: of doubles, let's say, and the next generation of it 46 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,100 Speaker 4: and where it goes as an entertainment product as well. 47 00:02:21,820 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 4: So yeah, it was about quickening up the dead time. 48 00:02:24,750 --> 00:02:28,250 Speaker 4: So obviously doubles, the points are shorter, but people do 49 00:02:28,290 --> 00:02:32,130 Speaker 4: like the action. They like seeing the volleys, their skills 50 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:35,950 Speaker 4: on offer, the quick action points. But because the points 51 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:38,430 Speaker 4: were quicker and the long amount of time between the 52 00:02:38,470 --> 00:02:41,950 Speaker 4: points and on the changeovers, for every one minute of action, 53 00:02:41,970 --> 00:02:44,490 Speaker 4: there was probably four or five minutes of dead time, 54 00:02:44,530 --> 00:02:46,850 Speaker 4: let's say. So we just try to quicken up the 55 00:02:46,889 --> 00:02:50,130 Speaker 4: time between the points and particularly the changeovers as well, 56 00:02:50,650 --> 00:02:53,050 Speaker 4: just so that fans could come and watch a match 57 00:02:53,090 --> 00:02:55,350 Speaker 4: for an hour and just see rolling action. You know, 58 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,020 Speaker 4: return winners, aces, volley winners, smash winners, epic point here 59 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 4: and there. Just see all those skills just on constant 60 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 4: play and make it also more fan-friendly. They've let fans 61 00:03:06,740 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 4: be able to come and go as they wish. They 62 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: can come in on the side if they want for 10, 63 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 4: 15 minutes. They don't have to wait for change of ends. 64 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,900 Speaker 4: Just all these things to make it more fan-friendly and 65 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,780 Speaker 4: then potentially more broadcast-friendly too so that if they want 66 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 4: to have it on TV, that's not showing a product 67 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,060 Speaker 4: with too much dead time. 68 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: If you were a tennis commissioner, what would you prioritize 69 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: to make doubles the most entertaining it can be for fans? 70 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:36,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, marketing. Number one, marketing. I think it's been 71 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 4: clear too this last year we've seen the doubles as– 72 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 4: never really been given its own platform of marketing. It's 73 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:46,140 Speaker 4: always just drip fed in and through the singles, which 74 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,620 Speaker 4: is fine. And that's fine. It'll never be singles and 75 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,430 Speaker 4: it doesn't profess to be singles. But I think, let's 76 00:03:51,470 --> 00:03:56,730 Speaker 4: say for every opportunity that singles has that doubles doesn't have, 77 00:03:56,950 --> 00:03:59,730 Speaker 4: I think doubles has an opportunity that singles doesn't have. 78 00:03:59,790 --> 00:04:04,250 Speaker 4: So where singles is long, drawn out, epic, physical, mental, 79 00:04:04,410 --> 00:04:07,910 Speaker 4: doubles is shorter, more execution based, There's two people on 80 00:04:07,930 --> 00:04:10,070 Speaker 4: the court, so I think there is more time for 81 00:04:10,130 --> 00:04:13,780 Speaker 4: it to be a bit more fan-friendly, a bit more entertainment-focused, 82 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,900 Speaker 4: a bit more like an NBA product, let's say, with 83 00:04:16,980 --> 00:04:20,580 Speaker 4: more almost side entertainment or music happening or fans being 84 00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:24,500 Speaker 4: able to engage more with players. Yeah, I think it's 85 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 4: no secret that all sports these days are going towards 86 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,820 Speaker 4: more fan-friendly entertainment-based and let's say even slightly quickening things 87 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 4: up where possible. Obviously, you don't want to ruin the product. 88 00:04:35,779 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 4: It's important to maintain our traditions and our heritage of 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 4: why our game is great. But if we can modify 90 00:04:42,060 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 4: a little bit just to make that entertainment product appealing 91 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,190 Speaker 4: for fans, for it to be fun and engaging, but 92 00:04:48,250 --> 00:04:51,670 Speaker 4: then also as a spectator sport to watch not only 93 00:04:51,690 --> 00:04:56,270 Speaker 4: at the tournament but online, streaming, on TV, I think 94 00:04:56,390 --> 00:04:59,930 Speaker 4: it's the best formula for our whole sport moving forward, 95 00:04:59,950 --> 00:05:01,790 Speaker 4: not just doubles but even singles too. 96 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: And in hearing you talk like this, obviously you're on 97 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,260 Speaker 2: the player council. It sounds like you're someone that is 98 00:05:07,460 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 2: invested in like the future of the sport. You're passionate 99 00:05:09,620 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: about tennis and you want to see it be as 100 00:05:11,460 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: good as it can be. There's been for years now, 101 00:05:14,420 --> 00:05:16,729 Speaker 2: so much conversation about what will tennis look like when 102 00:05:16,850 --> 00:05:19,789 Speaker 2: the big three go and when Serena goes and we're 103 00:05:19,810 --> 00:05:21,729 Speaker 2: now starting to see it. Roger and Serena have gone, 104 00:05:22,190 --> 00:05:25,450 Speaker 2: Rafa's towards the end. But at the same time, we've 105 00:05:25,490 --> 00:05:29,419 Speaker 2: got now, Carlos Alcaraz, the world number one and two 106 00:05:29,740 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: are Sina and Alcaraz and Svantec and Goff, and they're 107 00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:38,310 Speaker 2: all 23 and under. And when you see this new 108 00:05:38,370 --> 00:05:43,250 Speaker 2: generation coming up, is the future in good hands, despite 109 00:05:43,570 --> 00:05:45,500 Speaker 2: us coming out of what is like a golden generation 110 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:45,890 Speaker 2: of tennis? 111 00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:48,740 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. And great question. And I'm glad you asked. 112 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,150 Speaker 4: So it really is. I mean, This year alone, we've 113 00:05:52,190 --> 00:05:58,779 Speaker 4: seen record crowds, records, spectatorships, views online, Rome. I mean, 114 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 4: obviously it was Rafa's last road as well, so he 115 00:06:00,580 --> 00:06:02,900 Speaker 4: had a part in that. But even the tournaments where 116 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 4: these guys are not, people are coming for the events. 117 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,659 Speaker 4: And that's also one thing we've also discovered in doubles. 118 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,110 Speaker 4: People aren't necessarily just coming to watch singles or doubles 119 00:06:11,150 --> 00:06:13,849 Speaker 4: or this person or that person. And even if we 120 00:06:13,870 --> 00:06:16,450 Speaker 4: look back the last 10, 20 years, sure, you can 121 00:06:16,510 --> 00:06:19,950 Speaker 4: find three or four or five incredible marquee players that 122 00:06:19,970 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 4: will sell out a stadium just with their own name. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, 123 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 4: maybe Andy Murray in the UK or whatever. But other 124 00:06:27,740 --> 00:06:30,900 Speaker 4: than that, there's guys who are in the top 10 125 00:06:30,900 --> 00:06:33,739 Speaker 4: or in the top 20 that are kind of sleeper 126 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:37,180 Speaker 4: names that they're not going to necessarily just with their 127 00:06:37,220 --> 00:06:40,550 Speaker 4: name fill a stadium. But people are coming for the event. 128 00:06:40,580 --> 00:06:42,409 Speaker 4: So that's what we've seen with the AO now. People 129 00:06:42,470 --> 00:06:43,770 Speaker 4: are coming because they want to go to the AO. 130 00:06:44,210 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 4: They don't necessarily have to go and see... Hubert Hurtkash, 131 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 4: who's the number eight player in the world. I don't 132 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:52,740 Speaker 4: think they really care that much about that. They want 133 00:06:52,779 --> 00:06:54,909 Speaker 4: to see great tennis. They know they're going to get it. 134 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 4: They're going to get the best players in the world, 135 00:06:56,980 --> 00:07:01,339 Speaker 4: all competing against each other for big prize money, big titles, 136 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,250 Speaker 4: let's say. And that's what it's becoming about. So I'm 137 00:07:05,290 --> 00:07:08,070 Speaker 4: kind of glad in a way that our sport, of course, 138 00:07:08,130 --> 00:07:10,330 Speaker 4: it's about your heroes and your champions. And it always is. 139 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 4: Those people carry They carry it, but I think tennis 140 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 4: has done well this last 15 years in the marketing 141 00:07:16,140 --> 00:07:22,100 Speaker 4: and gross space to market, you know, 50 players, 100 players, 142 00:07:22,140 --> 00:07:25,860 Speaker 4: the next-gen players, people from their own country getting highlighted more, 143 00:07:26,660 --> 00:07:28,430 Speaker 4: you know, Davis Cup, this, that, and the other, and 144 00:07:28,460 --> 00:07:32,490 Speaker 4: growing the whole tennis ecosystem from the young players, the 145 00:07:32,510 --> 00:07:35,670 Speaker 4: middle-aged players, the older players, even the ex-players, the legends, 146 00:07:35,690 --> 00:07:39,590 Speaker 4: the coaches are now even more in the limelight on TV, 147 00:07:39,630 --> 00:07:42,570 Speaker 4: but bringing coaching in sort of You said Alcaraz won 148 00:07:42,590 --> 00:07:44,740 Speaker 4: Carlos Ferreira. He's a former world number one, and he's 149 00:07:44,740 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 4: 45 or 50 years old, whatever he is. And a 150 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,540 Speaker 4: lot of people out there wouldn't know it, but the 151 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,580 Speaker 4: guy's been world number one. He's an incredible player. And 152 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,820 Speaker 4: now he's taking a huge part because you see him 153 00:07:56,860 --> 00:08:00,870 Speaker 4: on the sidelines constantly coaching. And so, yeah, so now 154 00:08:00,930 --> 00:08:05,050 Speaker 4: I have Alcaraz, Sinner coming up. I mean, I've seen 155 00:08:05,090 --> 00:08:08,090 Speaker 4: these guys since they started three, four, five years ago 156 00:08:08,110 --> 00:08:10,070 Speaker 4: in qualifying of some of the tour events. I was 157 00:08:10,090 --> 00:08:12,060 Speaker 4: sort of like, geez, who's that guy here? He's a 158 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 4: serious player. I was like, that's not normal what that 159 00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 4: guy's doing. And it's no secret I've been able to 160 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 4: follow those guys the last few years and their progression. 161 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,020 Speaker 4: And it's no secret that they will then take over. 162 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,140 Speaker 4: And it's the same. And we sort of think, oh, Federer, Nadal, whatever. 163 00:08:26,180 --> 00:08:28,300 Speaker 4: But you've got to remember that before them, it was 164 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 4: Sampras and Agassi and whoever else. So those guys came 165 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 4: when probably people were going, oh, will tennis ever be 166 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 4: the same without Sampras and Agassi? And then look what happened. 167 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,210 Speaker 4: Federer was born and Nadal was born and Djokovic. And 168 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,730 Speaker 4: now you had Medvedev in there a little. And then, 169 00:08:46,790 --> 00:08:48,890 Speaker 4: you know, now Alcaraz and Sinner are born. And the 170 00:08:48,929 --> 00:08:52,370 Speaker 4: way they're tracking, Alcaraz is tracking better than Rafa, Roger 171 00:08:52,429 --> 00:08:56,309 Speaker 4: and Djokovic combined. So he's on track to win in, 172 00:08:57,050 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 4: I mean, probably at least 10 slams. But 20, 25, 173 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,190 Speaker 4: 30 is not impossible the way he's tracking. So similar 174 00:09:04,230 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 4: with Sinner. He's 1-1 now, but I mean... And they 175 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 4: are incredibly hard to get. And when people go, oh, 176 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,340 Speaker 4: he's going to win 30 slams, you know, let's just 177 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,179 Speaker 4: be a little bit realistic here. And then the field's 178 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 4: incredibly hard. It's incredibly tough physically, mentally. It basically takes 179 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 4: a human operating at their full capacity with a lot 180 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,140 Speaker 4: of people around them and a lot of luck and 181 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,020 Speaker 4: all these things to go right to win that many 182 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:31,620 Speaker 4: as Novak and Rafa have, let's say. But these guys 183 00:09:31,660 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 4: are now learning from what Rovac and Rafa did the 184 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,420 Speaker 4: last 15 years with all their teams and their data 185 00:09:36,460 --> 00:09:39,570 Speaker 4: and the doctors and the physios and coaches, let's say, 186 00:09:39,590 --> 00:09:43,829 Speaker 4: to now be ahead of the game. So can this 187 00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:47,589 Speaker 4: next generation, you know, beat the previous generation? And if 188 00:09:47,610 --> 00:09:50,770 Speaker 4: we look at throughout history, that's actually sort of what's happened. So, 189 00:09:51,530 --> 00:09:54,510 Speaker 4: you know, in the 50s, 60s, every decade, someone's won 190 00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:57,870 Speaker 4: three Wimbledons. Then the next decade, someone's come and won five. Then, 191 00:09:57,890 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 4: you know, in the 90s, 70s, won seven. And it 192 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 4: was like, oh my gosh, that's, no one will ever 193 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,260 Speaker 4: beat that. Now come Novak and Roger winning eight, nine, 10. 194 00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:09,340 Speaker 4: Rafa's won 12 Frenchies or something, you know? So it's 195 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 4: natural that every generation will learn from the previous generations 196 00:10:13,179 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 4: and probably get better, the science around it, and probably 197 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 4: the results get better. So, We're in for an exciting 198 00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:21,900 Speaker 4: time this next 10 years. 199 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: When we chatted to Matt Ebden for this podcast, we 200 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:32,630 Speaker 2: asked him about the changes to doubles that were debuted 201 00:10:32,650 --> 00:10:35,329 Speaker 2: in Madrid. And apparently that involved a lot of consultation 202 00:10:35,350 --> 00:10:37,369 Speaker 2: with the player council and other stakeholders about how do 203 00:10:37,390 --> 00:10:39,530 Speaker 2: we improve the product that is doubles? You're one of 204 00:10:39,550 --> 00:10:42,090 Speaker 2: the top doubles players in the world and you're watching 205 00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:43,620 Speaker 2: a lot of tennis now. Like what is to you 206 00:10:44,220 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: the fan experience watching tennis and consuming it? Do you 207 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 2: think we're doing a good job is there something tennis 208 00:10:49,340 --> 00:10:51,780 Speaker 2: could do better and I don't know what would you 209 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: like to see maybe to particularly improve doubles because they're 210 00:10:55,140 --> 00:10:57,330 Speaker 2: often saying we need to get more fans invested in 211 00:10:57,370 --> 00:10:58,790 Speaker 2: doubles but maybe just. 212 00:10:58,730 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 5: Generally yeah I think for me one of the biggest 213 00:11:01,420 --> 00:11:03,870 Speaker 5: things is like trying to shorten up the time between 214 00:11:04,390 --> 00:11:08,150 Speaker 5: points and sets toilet breaks like those type of things 215 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:11,449 Speaker 5: because as a fan like when you're watching the match 216 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:13,650 Speaker 5: like you kind of you're so invested into it and 217 00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:15,449 Speaker 5: then when there's like a long break you kind of 218 00:11:15,490 --> 00:11:17,530 Speaker 5: like you almost you kind of get over it. I'll 219 00:11:17,550 --> 00:11:19,790 Speaker 5: go like start cooking. Then you kind of forget about 220 00:11:19,830 --> 00:11:23,090 Speaker 5: it in a way. I definitely think like we can, yeah, 221 00:11:23,150 --> 00:11:25,329 Speaker 5: kind of shorten like either the warmups again or just 222 00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:28,599 Speaker 5: in between points. Like there's so much like dead time, 223 00:11:28,660 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 5: especially in doubles because the points are like, I don't 224 00:11:31,580 --> 00:11:34,059 Speaker 5: know what the average rally length would be, but it 225 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 5: wouldn't be that long. 226 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:35,660 Speaker 6: Obviously in singles. 227 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,020 Speaker 2: It might be shorter than singles, right? 228 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,859 Speaker 5: It would a hundred percent be shorter than singles. It 229 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:41,540 Speaker 5: must be like three or four kind of shots max. 230 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:44,030 Speaker 5: Whereas singles, I understand it's longer. You do need that 231 00:11:44,070 --> 00:11:46,890 Speaker 5: recovery time and, And especially if you're playing on a 232 00:11:46,910 --> 00:11:49,100 Speaker 5: big court because there's so much more space you've got 233 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:50,460 Speaker 5: to walk from and get your towels. 234 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,059 Speaker 2: Yeah, like to get to the towels actually like a 10, 235 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: 20-meter walk. Yeah. 236 00:11:53,179 --> 00:11:56,500 Speaker 5: So like all that stuff kind of, yeah, impacts that. 237 00:11:56,540 --> 00:11:58,939 Speaker 5: But I think in doubles like we can have shorter breaks. 238 00:11:58,980 --> 00:12:01,340 Speaker 5: You don't need like kind of all this time. But 239 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 5: in terms of the product, like there's a lot of– 240 00:12:03,620 --> 00:12:05,020 Speaker 5: on the women's side, I find there's a lot of 241 00:12:05,059 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 5: singles players playing doubles. Maybe on the men there's more 242 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,490 Speaker 5: doubles-specific players and the singles guys don't play as much 243 00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:13,849 Speaker 5: and that's what they're trying to do is get more 244 00:12:13,890 --> 00:12:17,130 Speaker 5: singles that players to play doubles. So then the fans 245 00:12:17,150 --> 00:12:20,690 Speaker 5: will probably be a bit more, I guess, engaged. But 246 00:12:20,730 --> 00:12:22,349 Speaker 5: on the women's side, like there's actually a lot of 247 00:12:22,390 --> 00:12:25,489 Speaker 5: players that, yeah, singles players that play doubles and who 248 00:12:25,550 --> 00:12:26,190 Speaker 5: are doing really well. 249 00:12:26,250 --> 00:12:28,990 Speaker 6: Like Coco, great example. Elise Mertens. 250 00:12:29,010 --> 00:12:32,770 Speaker 2: Paolini. Paolini. Made both the French finals. Yes, exactly. 251 00:12:32,910 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 6: Kat, my partner who I was playing with. 252 00:12:35,179 --> 00:12:38,500 Speaker 5: Like there's so many actually that play and I think. 253 00:12:38,740 --> 00:12:42,740 Speaker 6: People get invested into that story as well. So, I mean, 254 00:12:42,780 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 6: I didn't mind the trial. I found. 255 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 5: To be honest, some of the singles players that were 256 00:12:47,270 --> 00:12:50,459 Speaker 5: playing in Madrid in the men's doubles, like I still 257 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 5: didn't really know who they were. Like they were ranked 258 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,500 Speaker 5: maybe 60 or 70. And I'm like, I don't really 259 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,700 Speaker 5: see why they should get in over a doubles guy 260 00:12:57,740 --> 00:12:59,980 Speaker 5: who's ranked 40 in the world or 30 in the world. 261 00:13:00,059 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 5: So I think it's a good concept, but I think 262 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 5: they probably need to, yeah, just, yeah, just, I guess, 263 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 5: edit it and work out kind of the entry requirements. 264 00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 5: And yeah, if they want like top 10 guys to play, 265 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 5: do they get a wild card or... kind of like 266 00:13:15,390 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 5: a different type of entry system or however it's going 267 00:13:17,780 --> 00:13:20,099 Speaker 5: to look. But it is interesting because then you go 268 00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:22,740 Speaker 5: to Indian Wells and they love doubles there. 269 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,260 Speaker 2: Doubles in Indian Wells is like so many singles players playing. 270 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,700 Speaker 2: They've got something down pat there that seems to attract 271 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 2: everyone to play both. 272 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. 273 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. 274 00:13:31,179 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 5: I think maybe it's a two week event because if 275 00:13:32,940 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 5: you lose early, you don't really want to go to 276 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,770 Speaker 5: Miami like super early. So they almost like want to stay, 277 00:13:38,830 --> 00:13:41,010 Speaker 5: which I think now that the master events are all 278 00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:43,469 Speaker 5: going to become two week events starting, I think next year, 279 00:13:43,510 --> 00:13:44,110 Speaker 5: they're all going to. 280 00:13:44,050 --> 00:13:44,700 Speaker 6: Be two weeks. 281 00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:47,540 Speaker 5: So that will probably get a few more singles players 282 00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 5: to play. Um, also prize money is a good incentive 283 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 5: because I think if you do the Indian Wells double 284 00:13:53,420 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 5: in singles and doubles, you might get a bonus as well. 285 00:13:55,500 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 6: I think there's like something maybe in the men's side. So, um, yeah. 286 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,420 Speaker 6: And then I think the fans just like, they all 287 00:14:02,460 --> 00:14:03,300 Speaker 6: play doubles themselves. 288 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,609 Speaker 5: Like they're a And I think they appreciate like watching 289 00:14:06,630 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 5: doubles because that's something that they can relate to because 290 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,940 Speaker 5: like I'll get fans ask me in the emails like, oh, 291 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 5: so why did you play like that I formation or 292 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 5: like they'll actually ask questions. 293 00:14:16,179 --> 00:14:17,580 Speaker 2: They got like full tennis nerd on you. 294 00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:18,100 Speaker 4: Yeah. 295 00:14:18,140 --> 00:14:19,580 Speaker 2: And I love it. I think it's great. 296 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 297 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:25,090 Speaker 6: So it's, yeah, it's really cool. But yeah, I don't know. 298 00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:25,250 Speaker 4: Sorry. 299 00:14:25,270 --> 00:14:26,390 Speaker 6: I didn't really answer that very well. 300 00:14:26,430 --> 00:14:26,770 Speaker 3: No, no, no. 301 00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:28,690 Speaker 2: You absolutely did. And I think it was one thing 302 00:14:28,730 --> 00:14:30,490 Speaker 2: we thought when we were talking to Matt, it's just 303 00:14:30,510 --> 00:14:32,710 Speaker 2: good that they're kind of having those conversations and like 304 00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:35,810 Speaker 2: not standing still. Like, how can we get better? What 305 00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:37,590 Speaker 2: can we try? And as you said, like they tried 306 00:14:37,630 --> 00:14:39,590 Speaker 2: these things, this was good. Maybe they have to tweak 307 00:14:39,630 --> 00:14:43,770 Speaker 2: that or revisit that, but it's kind of innovation and experimentation. 308 00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:44,070 Speaker 2: Why not? 309 00:14:44,290 --> 00:14:45,110 Speaker 6: Yeah, a hundred percent. 310 00:14:45,130 --> 00:14:47,710 Speaker 5: I think that's something in tennis, like maybe they haven't 311 00:14:47,730 --> 00:14:49,230 Speaker 5: done as well is like, there's a lot of sports 312 00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:52,230 Speaker 5: that are like trying to find new ways to kind 313 00:14:52,250 --> 00:14:54,850 Speaker 5: of keep it entertaining or bring in, draw in a 314 00:14:54,890 --> 00:14:57,590 Speaker 5: crowd and like, just, yeah, keep evolving. 315 00:14:57,630 --> 00:14:59,430 Speaker 6: Like you kind of need to keep evolving. 316 00:14:59,450 --> 00:15:02,150 Speaker 5: And like, I think, yeah, I think Matt's on the council, 317 00:15:02,220 --> 00:15:05,710 Speaker 5: so he's probably, Yeah, right in those conversations with what's 318 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:08,410 Speaker 5: going on. But no, I think it's actually really good 319 00:15:08,430 --> 00:15:11,370 Speaker 5: that they're trialling things. And yeah, when you do something 320 00:15:11,390 --> 00:15:13,859 Speaker 5: for the first time, it's never going to be like perfect. 321 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 5: So you've got to kind of adapt and change and adjust. 322 00:15:16,180 --> 00:15:21,420 Speaker 5: But yeah, I think for me, shortening a few things 323 00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 5: is positive. 324 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,900 Speaker 6: Like not for us as players, but as fans, I 325 00:15:24,940 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 6: think it's really important. 326 00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:28,330 Speaker 5: Even just the fact that now this year, like fans 327 00:15:28,350 --> 00:15:30,350 Speaker 5: are allowed to walk in between games. 328 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, in between points and stuff. 329 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,500 Speaker 2: And come in not necessarily of a changeover, right? You 330 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:36,739 Speaker 2: come in at the end of any game. 331 00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:39,380 Speaker 5: Yeah, which I think is also great because like, I 332 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,330 Speaker 5: don't know if you have to wait three games or 333 00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:43,700 Speaker 5: two games and it's 15 minutes, like it's kind of. 334 00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:45,850 Speaker 2: Have you been stuck there when that's happened? 335 00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:46,230 Speaker 4: I have. 336 00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:46,650 Speaker 3: Yeah. 337 00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:47,090 Speaker 2: It's the worst. 338 00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:48,109 Speaker 1: It's horrible, right? 339 00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:49,470 Speaker 6: You're just like, oh, can you hurry up? 340 00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:53,190 Speaker 2: I'm standing in the stairwell for 20 minutes waiting to 341 00:15:53,210 --> 00:15:54,590 Speaker 2: get in because I went to the bathroom at the 342 00:15:54,610 --> 00:15:57,450 Speaker 2: wrong time or something. Yeah, but yeah, that was a change. 343 00:15:57,470 --> 00:16:00,500 Speaker 2: Did you find that tricky to kind of, cause that 344 00:16:00,540 --> 00:16:02,780 Speaker 2: is an adjustment for the player. Suddenly there's more movement 345 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: and maybe more noise and stuff in your eye line. 346 00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:08,540 Speaker 2: Did you have any issues with that? 347 00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:11,270 Speaker 6: I didn't, to be honest, like I didn't even notice. 348 00:16:11,330 --> 00:16:13,490 Speaker 5: And during the Australian open, like I had no idea 349 00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:16,170 Speaker 5: about this rule change until like, I just saw some 350 00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:18,570 Speaker 5: comments on online about some players complaining. 351 00:16:18,630 --> 00:16:21,660 Speaker 6: But, um, I mean, when you're playing obviously on. 352 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 5: The outside courts, like you don't really realize because people 353 00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:26,500 Speaker 5: are walking past. It's like kind of loud. So you 354 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:29,250 Speaker 5: actually kind of get like used to that. But I 355 00:16:29,290 --> 00:16:31,250 Speaker 5: think if you're a player who's always playing on the 356 00:16:31,310 --> 00:16:35,450 Speaker 5: big courts where it's quiet, there's like, you know, it's 357 00:16:35,750 --> 00:16:38,550 Speaker 5: in the stadium court. So you probably would notice like 358 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,940 Speaker 5: a bit of the movement and stuff. But I think 359 00:16:41,020 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 5: if it's, as long as it's just the bottom row, 360 00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:45,340 Speaker 5: maybe you can't because that's right behind where you're serving. 361 00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:47,940 Speaker 5: So you can kind of get a little bit distracted 362 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 5: or lose the ball if there's like a lot of movement. 363 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,700 Speaker 5: But like upper rows, it should be, every slam or 364 00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:55,100 Speaker 5: every tournament, like it should be totally fine. And even 365 00:16:55,140 --> 00:16:57,220 Speaker 5: on the outside courts, like you should be able to 366 00:16:57,260 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 5: move around because like also it creates a little bit 367 00:16:59,180 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 5: of atmos as well. 368 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:01,220 Speaker 4: Yeah. 369 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: There's a bit more of a buzz. 370 00:17:02,380 --> 00:17:02,660 Speaker 4: Yeah. 371 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:04,770 Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess also getting you to put your Aussie 372 00:17:04,810 --> 00:17:07,610 Speaker 2: tennis hat on. We've got a group of young girls 373 00:17:07,630 --> 00:17:09,369 Speaker 2: that are kind of coming up. There's a whole, a 374 00:17:09,430 --> 00:17:12,130 Speaker 2: whole bunch of them. You've got Taylor Preston, Talia Gibson, 375 00:17:12,190 --> 00:17:15,290 Speaker 2: Maya Joint, Olivia Gadecki. They're all now into that top 376 00:17:15,290 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: 200 and kind of trending in a really good way. 377 00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: What's it, what do you make of that kind of 378 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,260 Speaker 2: that generation or crop of girls that are coming up and, 379 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,100 Speaker 2: you know, your connection with them? Like, do they ask 380 00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:27,140 Speaker 2: you for advice? Do you hit with them? Like what, what's, 381 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: what's your relationship with them? 382 00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:31,100 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been, it's been really nice to see those 383 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 5: younger girls come through. They're all, yeah, top 200 going 384 00:17:33,619 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 5: to play Wimbledon qualities. I think Maya for the first time, 385 00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:39,429 Speaker 5: other than Aussie Open playing qualities of a Grand Slam 386 00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:42,310 Speaker 5: and Taylor's now been there a little bit the last, 387 00:17:42,369 --> 00:17:44,390 Speaker 5: I'd say six to eight months, which is great. But 388 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,870 Speaker 5: You know, as one of the older athletes, Australian players, 389 00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:50,310 Speaker 5: I try and reach out to them and just, you know, 390 00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:52,330 Speaker 5: say that, you know, I'm here to, if you ever 391 00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:55,209 Speaker 5: want to chat, congratulate them on their results, check in 392 00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:59,030 Speaker 5: and stuff. So Taylor, obviously Taylor and Talia being from WA, 393 00:17:59,070 --> 00:18:00,909 Speaker 5: I've kind of, I'm a little bit older, so I 394 00:18:00,930 --> 00:18:04,230 Speaker 5: didn't grow up with them, but just having that, I guess, 395 00:18:04,670 --> 00:18:07,350 Speaker 5: bond as a West Australian, we've always kind of stayed 396 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:09,050 Speaker 5: in touch and Taylor being on the Billie Jean King 397 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:09,409 Speaker 5: Cup team. 398 00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:10,490 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say that she was in 399 00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:11,890 Speaker 2: the squad with you in Brisbane, right? 400 00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:12,210 Speaker 5: Yeah. 401 00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:13,430 Speaker 2: And has been in another time? 402 00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:18,490 Speaker 6: She was Orange Girl two years ago in Spain. Wait, Spain? 403 00:18:18,650 --> 00:18:18,910 Speaker 3: Yeah. 404 00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:21,110 Speaker 2: Well, she was at the finals, I'm pretty sure. Was 405 00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:23,369 Speaker 2: it Glasgow? 406 00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:26,669 Speaker 6: Glasgow, yes. She was there for the first time. And 407 00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:28,830 Speaker 6: I think all of us on the team, she was young. 408 00:18:28,869 --> 00:18:30,490 Speaker 5: She was 17 then. 409 00:18:30,910 --> 00:18:31,810 Speaker 6: So that was two years ago. 410 00:18:31,930 --> 00:18:35,550 Speaker 5: And we just all were amazed at how well she 411 00:18:36,210 --> 00:18:39,130 Speaker 5: held herself. And, I mean, first of all, her ball 412 00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:42,750 Speaker 5: striking on court. Just went for it, like didn't care 413 00:18:42,790 --> 00:18:44,930 Speaker 5: that she was hit. She was not intimidated by any 414 00:18:44,970 --> 00:18:47,250 Speaker 5: of us, you know, and went for it. Such great 415 00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:50,490 Speaker 5: ball striking, super positive player. And then off the court, 416 00:18:50,510 --> 00:18:52,890 Speaker 5: the way she handled herself, like, are you really 17 417 00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:54,990 Speaker 5: or 22? 418 00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:55,670 Speaker 4: So mature. 419 00:18:55,690 --> 00:18:58,870 Speaker 5: Yeah, so mature and was just such a great, great 420 00:18:58,910 --> 00:19:01,129 Speaker 5: person to have around. So then for her to be 421 00:19:01,790 --> 00:19:05,210 Speaker 5: selected for Brisbane and then to come out and play 422 00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:08,020 Speaker 5: the second day as well and have her debut was, 423 00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:11,030 Speaker 5: For me, obviously, with everything that happened with me the day, 424 00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:14,429 Speaker 5: two days before, that was my highlight was to be 425 00:19:14,490 --> 00:19:18,750 Speaker 5: able to watch this young girl from WA achieve this 426 00:19:18,810 --> 00:19:21,619 Speaker 5: kind of milestone for the first time to make her 427 00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:24,460 Speaker 5: debut and to win and play well, to win. 428 00:19:24,340 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 6: The tie for us to qualify was, yeah, it was incredible. 429 00:19:27,180 --> 00:19:29,500 Speaker 5: I was so happy for her and to see her 430 00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:33,190 Speaker 5: kind of having, yeah, having really good success and, you know, 431 00:19:33,310 --> 00:19:34,490 Speaker 5: going for it, going on the clay. 432 00:19:34,550 --> 00:19:37,350 Speaker 6: She left straight away from Brizzy to go, Europe and 433 00:19:37,369 --> 00:19:37,709 Speaker 6: get on the. 434 00:19:37,670 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 5: Clay and like she's not intimidated by anything she's kind 435 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,020 Speaker 5: of going for it and I love that she has 436 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,070 Speaker 5: you know a long-term coaching relationship with Brad and they've 437 00:19:46,090 --> 00:19:47,910 Speaker 5: just she's got a good head on her shoulders and 438 00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:49,169 Speaker 5: that's really cool to see. 439 00:19:52,619 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: Well Matt isn't it wonderful to hear such experienced voices 440 00:19:55,900 --> 00:20:00,290 Speaker 1: giving their time to the next generation of tennis players 441 00:20:00,510 --> 00:20:02,890 Speaker 1: and how the game unfolds in the future. 442 00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:05,770 Speaker 2: Yeah I agree I think tennis is in great hands 443 00:20:05,810 --> 00:20:07,590 Speaker 2: with Storm and Matt both kind of at the top 444 00:20:07,630 --> 00:20:10,709 Speaker 2: of the game and interested in where it goes Right, well, 445 00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:12,550 Speaker 2: we'll be back again next Monday when we sit down 446 00:20:12,590 --> 00:20:15,830 Speaker 2: with Alicia Mollick on the 20th anniversary of her run 447 00:20:15,869 --> 00:20:18,869 Speaker 2: to the Olympic bronze medal in Athens. And in the meantime, 448 00:20:18,910 --> 00:20:20,540 Speaker 2: you can listen to John and the team this Thursday 449 00:20:20,670 --> 00:20:21,619 Speaker 2: on the AO Show Weekly. 450 00:20:22,020 --> 00:20:23,980 Speaker 1: Details for how to contact us are in the show 451 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,740 Speaker 1: notes and please subscribe, rate and review. 452 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:28,060 Speaker 2: See you next week, Matt. 453 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:28,659 Speaker 5: See you, Viv.