Speaker 1: Just before we head into today's episode, we'd like to
Speaker 1: acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Speaker 1: Islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the
Speaker 1: waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you
Speaker 1: for sharing and for caring for the land on which
Speaker 1: we are able to learn. We pay respects to elders
Speaker 1: past and present, and we share our friendship and our kindness.
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back. We're celebrating
Speaker 3: International Women's Week because International Women's Stages simply was not
Speaker 3: enough for us here in this office.
Speaker 1: And we've just made it up. We've just decided International
Speaker 1: women is going to be a thing because International Women's
Speaker 1: Day just doesn't encompass enough for.
Speaker 3: Us one hundred percent. So we've been chatting to some
Speaker 3: incredible people this week and today we have Kate Fenwick,
Speaker 3: who is a transgender Diversity and Inclusions specialist and a
Speaker 3: public health student. Last year, Kate was announced as one
Speaker 3: of out for Australia's thirty under thirty spotlighting young LGBTQIA
Speaker 3: plus people that make tremendous contributions to bettering the lives
Speaker 3: of this community here in Australia. We are so thrilled
Speaker 3: to be joined by them the International Women's Week. Kate, Hello,
Speaker 3: how are you a team?
Speaker 4: How are we doing today?
Speaker 1: I am so excited to have wrangled you into a podcast.
Speaker 1: This is going to be a banger, my friend.
Speaker 4: Happy to be here, Happy to be here, Kate.
Speaker 1: Before we get on with the very first question, I
Speaker 1: know your pronouns. I've been using them for a farewell now,
Speaker 1: but for everybody listening along that might not have met
Speaker 1: you before, what are your pronouns and how do we
Speaker 1: use them appropriately?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 4: So my preferred pronouns and preferred is such a bad
Speaker 4: habit to get into, because it's just your personal pronoun right,
Speaker 4: They're not preferred, their mandatory They them or he him.
Speaker 4: You can use them interchangeably. The reason why they're both
Speaker 4: there is because you can use them as you see fit.
Speaker 4: I just don't don't subscribe to the she's and the hertz.
Speaker 4: So that's why there's there's many options for folk whatever
Speaker 4: they like.
Speaker 1: Kate. One of the caveats of winning THEFA thirty under
Speaker 1: thirty is that a person is quote living with authenticity,
Speaker 1: courage and resilience, demonstrating the qualities of a role model. Honestly,
Speaker 1: what an incredible thing to be recognized for at any age,
Speaker 1: let alone under the age of thirty. Kate, tell us
Speaker 1: what was your path to getting there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so thirty on to thirty was a big piece.
Speaker 4: Took off a lot of time last year in terms
Speaker 4: of different events and preparing proposals, and my incredible mentor
Speaker 4: GEM actually nominated me for that award, which was really
Speaker 4: a special moment, and I think it was a calm Nasi.
Speaker 4: I wear a lot of hats, I guess, in terms
Speaker 4: of being a student in the work that I do,
Speaker 4: in terms of like community advocacy type staff and pieces
Speaker 4: in across the creative industries. So trying to pick, I
Speaker 4: guess the category that felt most authentic was challenging, But
Speaker 4: I think we went with student in the end because
Speaker 4: studying public health feedbacks off a lot of the equity
Speaker 4: and inclusion stuff that I do at work, and I
Speaker 4: think that in order for folk to show up as
Speaker 4: their authentic selves and have a really incredible life. The
Speaker 4: access and equitable experiences in terms of healthcare for trans,
Speaker 4: intersex and gender diverse folk is integral to that. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it was an honor to be part of it. There
Speaker 4: was so many incredible folk that got the opportunity to
Speaker 4: share their stories and the way that OUT for Australia
Speaker 4: curates the award recipients like the goodie bags that we received,
Speaker 4: like all of the businesses that they purchased the gifts from,
Speaker 4: you know, really invested in championing lgbt QUI A plus
Speaker 4: inclusion and you know, it was just incredible to be
Speaker 4: able to try, you know, use some of those products
Speaker 4: and businesses that are really centering our experiences.
Speaker 1: How cool. So for those of us who haven't heard
Speaker 1: of out for Australia before, who are they? What do
Speaker 1: they do?
Speaker 4: So out for Australia has many different arms to what
Speaker 4: they do. The thirty under thirty awards annually is you
Speaker 4: know a big one, but they also have like a
Speaker 4: mentoring section so that folk from you know, intergenerationally, like
Speaker 4: across the community can get involved and that can be
Speaker 4: you know through study like mental support, or it might
Speaker 4: be with career or you know, social media creativity like,
Speaker 4: you know, things that you do outside of work too,
Speaker 4: and then they also have, you know, the opportunity for
Speaker 4: Lgbtquia folk in business to lend their skills and do
Speaker 4: some volunteering as well. And then they do events throughout
Speaker 4: the year like on different equity inclusion issues for LGBTQI
Speaker 4: plus folk. So really they're doing a lot.
Speaker 1: They are very cool and I feel like I want
Speaker 1: to use this space as well to promote them and
Speaker 1: go go check them out. But Kate, something I love
Speaker 1: about you is that you are wildly passionate about dismantling
Speaker 1: exclusive organizational culture and you really center the lived experience
Speaker 1: of underrepresented people within workplaces and within healthcare. I want
Speaker 1: to know from your experiences, what are some of the
Speaker 1: things that you've encountered as a change maker in the
Speaker 1: business world, whether that be positive, negative or neutral. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So, I suppose in Australia diversity, equity inclusion is probably
Speaker 4: more of an emerging discipline than perhaps some of our
Speaker 4: neighbors in the UK, Europe and the US. So I
Speaker 4: think that Australia, as a cohort, we have a bit
Speaker 4: of a collective mindset of everyone has a fair go
Speaker 4: and we talk a lot about how our sort of
Speaker 4: national identity is built on that idea of mate of
Speaker 4: an inclusion, and I guess systemically we know that that's
Speaker 4: not true based on the lived experiences of particularly our
Speaker 4: First Nations communities of the lgbt QUI a plus community
Speaker 4: of women and folk living with accessibility requirements or disability.
Speaker 4: So I think spelling it out and sort of reframing
Speaker 4: that that's seen across the business world in terms of
Speaker 4: inclusion and really understanding that it's a systemic problem as
Speaker 4: opposed to individual concerns has been really refreshing. And I
Speaker 4: can see that, you know a lot of the organizations
Speaker 4: that work without for Australia, you know, are really putting
Speaker 4: that ownership back onto to the systems that you know
Speaker 4: are the cause of these inequities as opposed to the
Speaker 4: individuals themselves. And I think continuing that conversation is really important,
Speaker 4: particularly as we head into you know, it's martographs Seas
Speaker 4: at the moment, you've just had Midsummer, you know, and
Speaker 4: of course IWD all about those those systems that are
Speaker 4: the problem, not the people.
Speaker 3: I'm really interested to know because obviously there's two really
Speaker 3: amazing aspects to you in your journey. You've got your
Speaker 3: personal side, but you also obviously work in this space professionally,
Speaker 3: and you've worked historically as a diversity and inclusion specialist
Speaker 3: with a number of businesses. Can you tell us a
Speaker 3: little bit about why it's important for businesses to be
Speaker 3: considering this, why they should be bringing in specialists such
Speaker 3: as yourself, and a little bit about maybe the strategies
Speaker 3: or things that you often come across when you're working
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think for contemporary businesses it's integral to have equity
Speaker 4: and inclusion diversity specialists working with you. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: an ASX listed requirement for folk to have policy and
Speaker 4: procedure in place that relates to diversity and inclusion. And
Speaker 4: I guess historically those policies in businesses have probably been
Speaker 4: compiled by folk that might not necessarily have lived experience
Speaker 4: or you know, the background or understanding of what themplication
Speaker 4: of having those policies that don't speak to the communities
Speaker 4: in which they're looking to serve hit the mark. So
Speaker 4: I think it is really vital that there are specialist
Speaker 4: people or even dedicated teams. And I guess allowing those
Speaker 4: people and their teams to reach out and you know,
Speaker 4: collaborate with other folk in their industry or whether that's
Speaker 4: you know, lived experienced consultants. Because no matter how grand
Speaker 4: you know your diversity inclusion team is, there's always going
Speaker 4: to be intersections that aren't covered off, if you like,
Speaker 4: So there's always going to be people that don't have
Speaker 4: lived experience in one of the facets that you might
Speaker 4: be looking to make some change in. And you know,
Speaker 4: collaborating with community members for meaningful employment is one thing
Speaker 4: from a sustainability perspective, but it also just means that
Speaker 4: folk have the opportunity to, you know, look outside their
Speaker 4: immediate teams and understand more from those the communities in
Speaker 4: which they operate.
Speaker 3: And that's so important, isn't it Just to having a
Speaker 3: diverse group of people. I feel like you don't get
Speaker 3: the range of ideas or perspectives. You can't really offer
Speaker 3: a product or a service if it's not inclusive by
Speaker 3: nature by your team.
Speaker 4: Right, that's exactly right, And I think you know yourself.
Speaker 4: Jess and Victoria and the Sheets on the Money crew
Speaker 4: are very keen to understand more and more about particularly
Speaker 4: what millennials are looking for in terms of you know,
Speaker 4: employment and talent acquisition and retention within businesses. And I
Speaker 4: think that Forbes and HBr and all the big sort
Speaker 4: of organizations that create articles and write on this stuff.
Speaker 4: You know, as a generation, it's that's why we're staying
Speaker 4: with businesses or why we're leaving them if that equity
Speaker 4: and inclusion piece isn't up to par, because people don't
Speaker 4: want to offer products and services to individuals that might
Speaker 4: I guess be excluded by nature of who they are
Speaker 4: from you know, fully optimizing their experience with that service
Speaker 4: or product offering.
Speaker 1: Are you seeing pushback from organizations? And I know that
Speaker 1: you know you work in this space a fair bit,
Speaker 1: so you might, but are you seeing pushback from organizations
Speaker 1: to really embrace this diversity and inclusion piece? Because I
Speaker 1: just feel like from my perspective, and I know from
Speaker 1: justice perspective, it's a no brainer to be making sure
Speaker 1: that you are open and accessible and embracing diversity and
Speaker 1: making sure that every single person in your team feels
Speaker 1: respected and honored and comfortable and welcomed. But why would
Speaker 1: people be I guess opposed to embracing the idea of
Speaker 1: having a diversity and inclusion Specialists come into their business.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it's a big area of explanation, right.
Speaker 4: And I think once you start, irrespective of the size
Speaker 4: of your business or where you work or who you
Speaker 4: work for, I think once you unravel one maybe opportunity
Speaker 4: that you have when it comes to equity and inclusion,
Speaker 4: it's a domino effect, right. And when we back to
Speaker 4: those intersections of folks, age, gender, sexuality, lived experienced, you know, disability,
Speaker 4: or whatever market you're looking at when it comes to
Speaker 4: diversity and inclusion. Once you open that cane of word
Speaker 4: and so to speak, it can take the capacity of
Speaker 4: whole teams, particularly when you're looking at operational guidance and
Speaker 4: systems and reinventing different parts of the way that you
Speaker 4: do business or your daily operations. It can be really
Speaker 4: really challenging. You know, off the back of COVID nineteen
Speaker 4: and the changes that businesses have had to make in
Speaker 4: terms of their structure and way that they do things,
Speaker 4: there can be capacity constraints and I think that you know,
Speaker 4: a good equity and inclusion specialist will recognize and work
Speaker 4: with businesses to understand that where those capacity constraints lie
Speaker 4: and how to best mend and move forward so that
Speaker 4: those tasks can be completed in a way that feels
Speaker 4: really authentic for communities.
Speaker 1: I feel like it can be seen as being really
Speaker 1: inauthentic when bigger companies start to embrace it, and you
Speaker 1: just go, oh, my gosh, this feels really tokenistic or
Speaker 1: it just feels like they're doing it for the brownie
Speaker 1: points when that should not ever be the driver. How
Speaker 1: can organizations and people embrace that without you know, having
Speaker 1: that layer of tokenism put over the top of it.
Speaker 1: I just feel like, especially for bigger organizations, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to name names, but sometimes you see it
Speaker 1: and you just go, are you serious, Like that's not
Speaker 1: how it should have been approached, Like is this them
Speaker 1: getting advice from people like you? Or is this then
Speaker 1: maybe just diy ing it and doing what they think
Speaker 1: the world wants to hear from them.
Speaker 4: I have like a lot of mixed feelings when it
Speaker 4: comes to the idea of the pink dollar around things
Speaker 4: like IWD, Mardi Gras pick a diversity Data of significance
Speaker 4: that sort of corporates or organizations of any kind spending
Speaker 4: money on these kind of things, and I think, you know,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of pushback from members of the LGBTQIA
Speaker 4: plus community in relation to you know, corporate floats or
Speaker 4: different bits and pieces for days of significance. And I
Speaker 4: think that at the end of the day, like queen
Speaker 4: people use banks, they use health services, they use all
Speaker 4: of the different tools or mechanisms that a lot of
Speaker 4: these big organizations provide communities. So if you know, I guess,
Speaker 4: rolling down a straight on a float or having an
Speaker 4: IWD type poster in their window or something of that nature,
Speaker 4: is you know where they're looking to create stepping stones
Speaker 4: to engage communities. I think that that is an inherently
Speaker 4: good thing too. I think sometimes there's a lot of
Speaker 4: hypercriticism on these different pieces. Everything should be approached with
Speaker 4: a really genuine place type activity. But if we keep
Speaker 4: relegating folk to ideas of cancel culture or folk being
Speaker 4: so afraid of saying or doing or implementing the right thing,
Speaker 4: change won't occur. People won't put themselves out there and
Speaker 4: attempt to change things because at least by doing the
Speaker 4: first step, and perhaps if they are wrong and it
Speaker 4: does come across as tokenistic, well, isn't that feeback for
Speaker 4: next time where they could potentially employ a consultant or
Speaker 4: have a look at how they could do things better
Speaker 4: next time. But if they don't start in the first place,
Speaker 4: you'd never know what the opportunities could be.
Speaker 1: I adore that take, and I adore it for a
Speaker 1: couple of reasons, and the first is earlier this week,
Speaker 1: we spoke to Jess Quinn, who is a very big
Speaker 1: advocate of the differently abled space, and she said pretty
Speaker 1: much exactly what you said. She's like, I don't care
Speaker 1: if I end up being the token model on a
Speaker 1: wrong way and everybody else is a tall, thin model,
Speaker 1: and then it's me in there for inclusion purposes, because
Speaker 1: they could be one person in the audience that really
Speaker 1: feels heard and seen because of that. And I just
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes we have these conversations and people jump
Speaker 1: down each other's throats before going have we actually put
Speaker 1: ourselves in the position of these people that we can't
Speaker 1: ever put ourselves in the position of and ask them,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about this? Because I think so
Speaker 1: often and we see this, you know, in our face
Speaker 1: book group, we see it online in a million different
Speaker 1: places of people. I guess promoting that cancel culture of like,
Speaker 1: you can't say that you can't do that. That was
Speaker 1: a token thing to say or do, whereas we should
Speaker 1: really be going, hey kay, you're in this space, what
Speaker 1: do you think about that? And you go, oh, I
Speaker 1: think it's great. Any steps a step in the right direction.
Speaker 1: From my perspective, you know, there might have been better
Speaker 1: if they'd used a different color or I don't really
Speaker 1: like that font. But it's one of those things where
Speaker 1: from your perspective, I just don't think it's how do
Speaker 1: I say this as sensitive as a lot of people
Speaker 1: seem to take it when companies start to embrace this community,
Speaker 1: because embracing the community is what we've been asking for,
Speaker 1: and I feel like we are so happy that that's
Speaker 1: now happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think that the tokenism pace is a really multifaceted,
Speaker 4: privilege ridden ideal, right, Like I feel like there's no
Speaker 4: guidelines or structure of what you know, tokenism isn't an
Speaker 4: like if there are those guidelines or structures in place.
Speaker 4: It's different for every intersection of the community. And I
Speaker 4: think that people basically just need to have a go.
Speaker 4: And you know, obviously it's an organizational or a corporate
Speaker 4: sort of sentiment to want to have all your ducks
Speaker 4: in a row before going to market with certain bits
Speaker 4: and pieces. But I think more and more back to
Speaker 4: that millennial's piece about where they choose to spend their
Speaker 4: time or which organizations they elect to work for when
Speaker 4: there's a choice involved, I think that there is that
Speaker 4: sentiment of like, we just want to see folk having
Speaker 4: a go, because it really does getting the way of
Speaker 4: progress when people aren't, you know, taking a leap to
Speaker 4: begin with, It's never too late.
Speaker 1: I would hope not to go into I guess the
Speaker 1: meaning of why we've got you here this week? We
Speaker 1: obviously have had earlier this week International Women's Day, and
Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk about the meaning of International
Speaker 1: Women's Day and their lgbt QIA plus communities view on
Speaker 1: what that is and whether they embrace it or push
Speaker 1: it away. How do we make sure that on a
Speaker 1: day where it's so about, you know, quote women, how
Speaker 1: do we make sure that we aren't up here saying okay,
Speaker 1: well this is what's most important?
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. And I guess, you know, as a caveat,
Speaker 4: I guess my perspective doesn't eclipse you know, of course,
Speaker 4: not all of you know our rainbow acronym if you like,
Speaker 4: But I think that what we can all commit to
Speaker 4: for International Women's Day is ensuring that, you know, there's
Speaker 4: diverse representation of the folk that we know consume content
Speaker 4: of of the events that we attend. I'm not really
Speaker 4: interested in an International Women's Day that, you know, isn't
Speaker 4: sharing the experiences of trans women or women who have
Speaker 4: lived experience of disability, or First Nations women and sister girls,
Speaker 4: or those that are incarcerated or you know, might be
Speaker 4: a sex worker or use drugs. I think that there's
Speaker 4: a lot of women are consistently left behind, and I
Speaker 4: think that it's really important too to remember that whilst
Speaker 4: many folk in the LGBTQIA plus community might, you know,
Speaker 4: they may not identify as female, many of us have
Speaker 4: a lived experience of walking through the world as female
Speaker 4: or woman or being perceived as such, even if that's incorrect. So,
Speaker 4: you know, making sure that your spaces are inclusive of
Speaker 4: gender diverse folk and folk that are non binary or
Speaker 4: intersex is really really important because I don't ever want
Speaker 4: the community to feel as if that day is not
Speaker 4: for them, because it most certainly is.
Speaker 1: No absolutely, I'm going to go to a really quick
Speaker 1: break here and then when we come back, I've got
Speaker 1: even more questions about International Women's Day. But then also
Speaker 1: I want to deep dive when they need a gritty
Speaker 1: of your mental health and how you have such a
Speaker 1: good bloody mindset. We'll be back in a hot minute.
Speaker 1: All right. We are having a lovely conversation with my
Speaker 1: friend and she's on the Money community member Kate Fenwick.
Speaker 1: Kate is a transgender diversity and inclusion specialist and public
Speaker 1: health student and as we said earlier in the episode,
Speaker 1: last year, Kate was announced is one of the out
Speaker 1: for Australia's thirty under thirty, spotlighting young lgbtquia plus people
Speaker 1: who are making a tremendous contribution towards bettering the lives
Speaker 1: of their community in Australia. Kate, before we went to
Speaker 1: a break, we were talking about what International Women's Day
Speaker 1: means to the as you called it, rainbow acronym community,
Speaker 1: which I thought was rather cute. But I want to
Speaker 1: know what it means for you. What does International Women's
Speaker 1: Day mean for you as someone who was presumed female
Speaker 1: at birth?
Speaker 4: That's great one. I think International Women's Day, you know,
Speaker 4: is all about celebrating, you know, the musicians and the
Speaker 4: artists and the folk that have had an inherent impact
Speaker 4: on may about you know, communicating and learning and understanding
Speaker 4: more with like my own mother, who has been so
Speaker 4: central to my understanding and early interest in you know,
Speaker 4: diversity and inclusion. Definitely wasn't called that back then, but
Speaker 4: that's what it was to her teachings as a primary
Speaker 4: school educator, about reflecting and thinking about the contributions that
Speaker 4: my grandmothers have made on my life who are no
Speaker 4: longer with us, and you know, thinking about, you know,
Speaker 4: how they'd interpret the world now if they were, and
Speaker 4: what our relationship would look like now. I think that's
Speaker 4: always a really nice thing to engage with, thinking about
Speaker 4: the incredible women that I work with. Diversity and inclusion
Speaker 4: often in Australia sits within human resources spaces, which are
Speaker 4: you know, typically or have been historically female dominated, I suppose,
Speaker 4: and it's really interesting. I haven't previously worked in spaces that,
Speaker 4: you know, we're quite female dominated, and it's a really
Speaker 4: refreshing experience to understand and learn more about what those
Speaker 4: spaces look like. And you know, having those mentors around
Speaker 4: you every day is incredible. LinkedIn has been a really
Speaker 4: good one in terms of IWD and thinking about the
Speaker 4: mentorship and support that I've received from folk over there. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I feel like it's such a hard question to answer
Speaker 4: because it is so multifaceted, and I think break the
Speaker 4: bias this year allows you to really consider as the
Speaker 4: theme allows you to really consider those varying perspectives, and
Speaker 4: you know, understand more about you know where to from
Speaker 4: here and what your personal responsibility is and what our
Speaker 4: responsibility is as part of the communities in which we
Speaker 4: reside in.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent, And I want to talk a little
Speaker 3: bit about what you were saying with how diversity inclusion
Speaker 3: today looks very different from how it did. It didn't
Speaker 3: even really exist the way we know of it, you know,
Speaker 3: when your mum was young or when your grandma was young.
Speaker 3: And I think now we have to recognize that as
Speaker 3: much as it's International Women's Day, our understanding of what
Speaker 3: a woman is now is vastly different from the very
Speaker 3: black and white perspective that we may be viewed it
Speaker 3: from a couple of decades ago. And now there may
Speaker 3: be people who are somewhere along their journey and maybe
Speaker 3: they're transitioning from male to female. Female to male. Maybe
Speaker 3: they're still learning to understand their pronouns and how they
Speaker 3: feel comfortable. How can we best support or best be
Speaker 3: allies to those people who maybe don't present in a
Speaker 3: way that we would traditionally consider them a woman. How
Speaker 3: do we make sure that we're not excluding people from
Speaker 3: these conversations who absolutely deserve to be there and deserve
Speaker 3: to be a part of it. Because, you know, going
Speaker 3: back to that thing with cancel culture, I think that
Speaker 3: people are really quick to want to make this about women,
Speaker 3: and there is, as you said, kind of a traditional
Speaker 3: view of what that woman is. And breaking the bias,
Speaker 3: I think to me, really means taking a step back
Speaker 3: from that and going, hey, like, it's actually much broader
Speaker 3: than you might think it is, and it's important. I
Speaker 3: think that we're welcoming everybody. How can we do that
Speaker 3: and how can we avoid falling into that trap of saying, oh,
Speaker 3: you're a man, you shouldn't be celebrating international women's Say
Speaker 3: this one's for the women.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good one. And I think that breaking
Speaker 4: down stereotypes and understanding of the gender binary as being
Speaker 4: you know, so black and white is inherently good for everyone.
Speaker 4: It doesn't just benefit trans intersex, gender diverse people, sister girls,
Speaker 4: brother boys. It benefits all because it removes arbitrary pressures
Speaker 4: that aren't real. So I think in terms of, you know,
Speaker 4: similar to what Victoria does in terms of sharing more
Speaker 4: about She's on the money and who's it for? And
Speaker 4: what it does is whilst you know, the title might
Speaker 4: be She's on the Money, or the title might be
Speaker 4: International Women's Day, really reinforcing that you know, your event
Speaker 4: is for everyone to attend. You know that you really want,
Speaker 4: you know, even a little note down the bottom, like
Speaker 4: we really hope that you know, trans and gender diverse
Speaker 4: women feel really empowered to take up space as part
Speaker 4: of our event, you know, listening to our stories, sharing
Speaker 4: in that lived experience. And I think that when you
Speaker 4: walk through the world of someone who has presumed female
Speaker 4: at birth and is now perhaps more interested in centering
Speaker 4: you know, personal masculinity or whatever, I think it's a
Speaker 4: really rich thing that the transgender diverse community brings to
Speaker 4: the world. I mean, you know, for employers, for people
Speaker 4: that are you know, in community, it's like this person
Speaker 4: has got a really broad perspective that they can bring
Speaker 4: to the table based on their lived experiences, and therefore,
Speaker 4: you know, why wouldn't you want to send to that
Speaker 4: person's ways of being, doing and knowing at an event
Speaker 4: that's aligned with International Women's Day. It's an opportunity for
Speaker 4: all of us to share and understand more about one
Speaker 4: another and what can be done to break the bias.
Speaker 1: I suppose good good wrap into the theme of today.
Speaker 1: But I have another question, and it's kind of like
Speaker 1: flipping the narrative of what you've been saying, because I
Speaker 1: would hate to think that anyone in our community doesn't
Speaker 1: feel welcome, because as you know, Kate that she and
Speaker 1: she's on the money, as you alluded to before, it's
Speaker 1: actually me, it's not it's not the community, it's not
Speaker 1: women only. It is whoever feels like they want to
Speaker 1: come and hang out with us, they are welcome. I
Speaker 1: don't care what you wear, I don't care who you are,
Speaker 1: don't care what you identify as. I just want to
Speaker 1: make sure that we are surrounded by kind humans. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's ound non negotiable, right. You've got
Speaker 1: to be a kind, open human to be part of
Speaker 1: our community. But what are your greatest concerns for the
Speaker 1: LGBTQIA plus community in twenty twenty two. I feel like
Speaker 1: we've made some progress, but it's from my perspective, not
Speaker 1: nearly enough. What are your biggest concerns?
Speaker 4: Gosh, And like you know, don't have the stats in
Speaker 4: front of me, but I think, you know, in terms
Speaker 4: of housing, health equity, like finances, our community grew up
Speaker 4: off the back of generations that came before us, of
Speaker 4: people who things like retirement, they didn't get there. You know.
Speaker 4: We think about our siblings that went through the AIDS epidemic,
Speaker 4: They went through systematic erasia, through you know, all different channels,
Speaker 4: and you know, unfortunately they didn't live long enough to
Speaker 4: think about what retirement potentially could look like. And I
Speaker 4: think that there's been a societal change of realizing that
Speaker 4: we are still here, you know, as a community, and
Speaker 4: you know, we need to put mechanisms and pieces in
Speaker 4: place to ensure that our futures are bright so that
Speaker 4: we can access the health care that we're required. People
Speaker 4: forget to realize that transigender, diverse people and intersex folk
Speaker 4: in our community is when it comes to healthcare in
Speaker 4: a lot of respects are still guinea picks. You know,
Speaker 4: there's so much that we don't know about the long
Speaker 4: term impacts of things like HRT, of different procedures that
Speaker 4: folk might go through in order to actualize as their
Speaker 4: true self. And we would hate to ever, you know,
Speaker 4: steer people away from living that authentic life. But you know,
Speaker 4: there's so much unknown, and we see that these conversations
Speaker 4: are centered on the existence of trans children, those different
Speaker 4: things that might be done to enable those kids to
Speaker 4: be their true selves. We talk about that in isolation.
Speaker 4: The media does anyway, and it's like funding an investment
Speaker 4: in our health and our care is vital in order
Speaker 4: for our community to be able to thrive and to
Speaker 4: understand and know more. And the same can be said
Speaker 4: of women's health and of folk with disability in terms
Speaker 4: of you know, we know all the stories and we
Speaker 4: have friends and family members and loved ones that deal
Speaker 4: with you know, gnological type concerns that you know don't
Speaker 4: get unraveled for years, and that's purely because the money
Speaker 4: and the study and the investment hasn't been placed on
Speaker 4: understanding more about those issues that seemingly impact half the population. Right.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think a lot of the concerns for
Speaker 4: the LGBTQIA plus community are not dissimilar to other intersections
Speaker 4: of our communities, and it's just about understanding more about
Speaker 4: through conversations like this and storytelling of you know, making
Speaker 4: people aware of what those those gaps can so that
Speaker 4: we can actually make some tangible change.
Speaker 1: That's something that She's on the Money is trying very
Speaker 1: hard to make space for. I think with the podcast
Speaker 1: and with the community that we've built. We now have
Speaker 1: more than a million people in this community. We've obviously
Speaker 1: got quite a big Facebook group, but the podcast is
Speaker 1: arguably so much bigger. But as we grow, I feel
Speaker 1: this overwhelming sense of responsibility to make even more space
Speaker 1: for the minorities in my community to make their voices
Speaker 1: feel heard and then use our power in She's on
Speaker 1: the Money to make sure that they are lifted up
Speaker 1: and celebrated and also supported through the journeys that they
Speaker 1: go through. To be honest, this is a bit of
Speaker 1: a selfish question, Kate. How can She's on the Money
Speaker 1: better support our community? How can we do better?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean historically, like She's on the Money, He's partnered
Speaker 4: with some great sponsors, and I think, you know, moving forward,
Speaker 4: are there the opportunities of partnerships and sponsorships from continuing
Speaker 4: on the threads of you know, female founded or First
Speaker 4: Nations owned or LGBTQIA owned, to share with the community
Speaker 4: more products and resources that might be aligned to them.
Speaker 4: I noted that continuing the good work for the She's
Speaker 4: on the money events that are coming up with things
Speaker 4: like and ensuring accessibility for folk to be able to
Speaker 4: enjoy and attend those events and not feel compromised, that's
Speaker 4: a great one. Continuing doing what you're doing is a
Speaker 4: great start. But just yeah, more ways to incorporate resources
Speaker 4: and partnerships with historically underrepresented folk and platforming their services and.
Speaker 3: Offerings incredible, Kate, I just wanted to touch on obviously,
Speaker 3: you've gone through your own journey and you've been pretty
Speaker 3: open about sharing that on your social media, which I
Speaker 3: think has been incredible. And there's a very good chance
Speaker 3: that there's going to be some people listening today who
Speaker 3: identify with that and who maybe are not quite as
Speaker 3: far along as you are and maybe having a little
Speaker 3: bit of an internal struggle coming to terms with themselves
Speaker 3: and who they feel like they truly are and who
Speaker 3: they true you want to be. If someone is having
Speaker 3: a tough time, what would you say to them, is
Speaker 3: there any resources out there that you can recommend? How
Speaker 3: has your own journey gone? What wisdom can you give
Speaker 3: someone now looking back having come so far? Yeah?
Speaker 4: So, I mean when I was sort of nineteen twenty
Speaker 4: heading down this path to understand more about what my
Speaker 4: gender identity is, this resource certainly didn't exist, and I'm
Speaker 4: so glad it does for folk embarking on this journey now,
Speaker 4: or even folks that have been part of this journey
Speaker 4: for a really long time but are just seeking more
Speaker 4: or their allies. Is trans Hub. So it's developed by Acorns.
Speaker 4: They have a whole team of folk who identify as
Speaker 4: trans or having a lived experience of gender diversity by
Speaker 4: the Boys Sister Girls. They've created this resource and it's
Speaker 4: sort of broken into three sections and it's like social
Speaker 4: legal and the other component has escaped me right now,
Speaker 4: but it's basically breaking down into really like actionable steps
Speaker 4: for folk to take in terms of seeking out a
Speaker 4: gender affirming doctor or a surgeon, or you know, resources
Speaker 4: for templates to provide your employer if you've got to
Speaker 4: ask for certain accommodations to be made. And this hub,
Speaker 4: you know, really breaks down the sister Girl and brother
Speaker 4: Boy experience, as well as providing services like trans Vitality
Speaker 4: and social well bases for building resilience in a world
Speaker 4: isn't necessarily always accommodating for folks that identify as transorgendered
Speaker 4: over so, I love that trans Hub is you one
Speaker 4: stop shop really for everyone, for allies too. There's a
Speaker 4: whole ally section. If you need to know more about
Speaker 4: how to support a loved one or even an employee
Speaker 4: or community member, that's great.
Speaker 1: I think everybody should take a couple of minutes and
Speaker 1: visit the website, regardless of whether you have a friend
Speaker 1: or a family member who is going through that, because
Speaker 1: if you're in the She's on the money community, we
Speaker 1: have community members going through that, and the more supported
Speaker 1: they are. It's not just about having that outward support.
Speaker 1: It's actually about education, and the more education that is
Speaker 1: going around and the more knowledge about this space, the better.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're experiencing it or not. Education is, honestly,
Speaker 1: from my perspective, the key to things like this and
Speaker 1: understanding what others are going through. You're never going to
Speaker 1: be able to put yourself in their shoes, but at
Speaker 1: least you'll know how to support them in the best
Speaker 1: possible way.
Speaker 3: One thousand percent, And I'm sure that there are definitely
Speaker 3: we know that there are small business owners in our community,
Speaker 3: and we would really encourage you. If it's something you're
Speaker 3: thinking about or want to learn more about, to engage
Speaker 3: a specialist in this area.
Speaker 1: You can just go to Kate. Kate will do it.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, Kate, do you have a website?
Speaker 3: Do you have is there anywhere that you can recommend
Speaker 3: people go if they are looking for someone to provide
Speaker 3: this kind of educational resource to their team to ensure
Speaker 3: that they're putting their best footward in this space and
Speaker 3: being as open and welcoming as a business as they
Speaker 3: possibly can be.
Speaker 4: Look, clearly, I'm Acorn's number one fanboy, so you've got
Speaker 4: trans hard. But then for folk that are working, working
Speaker 4: in organizations or looking to have further support, there's also
Speaker 4: pride in diversity, which is a different of what Acorn
Speaker 4: does to provide support. And you know, perhaps I can
Speaker 4: send some through to v to pop in the show
Speaker 4: notes for different states around Australia as well, because obviously
Speaker 4: my frame of reference is definitely a moup on a
Speaker 4: warbicle country in Newcastle in New South Wales. So yeah,
Speaker 4: get those resources specific to the areas that you're in.
Speaker 1: That would be so helpful. I really appreciate you doing
Speaker 1: the work for us, even though you definitely don't have to, Kate,
Speaker 1: we have taken up more than enough of your time
Speaker 1: and we're incredibly grateful for it. But just before we go,
Speaker 1: I want to ask one question that we have asked
Speaker 1: all of the change makers that have been on the
Speaker 1: podcast this week, and that is how have you celebrated
Speaker 1: International Women's Day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good one. Keeping it pretty pretty low key.
Speaker 4: Prepping for a surgery at the end of this month,
Speaker 4: so keeping things a bit quiet, which is exciting. Yes,
Speaker 4: we love to see it. What I want to do
Speaker 4: is make a donation to Sisters Inside. So sister is
Speaker 4: Inside is it's an independent like community organization. It's based
Speaker 4: off in Queensland and they basically like assist folk who
Speaker 4: are entering or returning from prison to have like a
Speaker 4: better integration I suppose, either back into society or if
Speaker 4: they are stepping into the prison system, how they can
Speaker 4: best be supported, whether it be for health issues or
Speaker 4: you know, substance use. A big portion of their community
Speaker 4: is First Nations women and they provide different resources and
Speaker 4: opportunities for those folk trans women as well to know,
Speaker 4: I guess have a better relationship or interaction I guess
Speaker 4: with a system that maybe historically hasn't been very supportive
Speaker 4: of them.
Speaker 1: They sound like legends. We will make sure link to
Speaker 1: them is in our show notes. But Kate, as always, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: that is all we have time for today.
Speaker 3: And remember the I shared on She's on the Money
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Speaker 3: Shees on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
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Speaker 3: week guy. Why