1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Just before we head into today's episode, we'd like to 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: for sharing and for caring for the land on which 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: we are able to learn. We pay respects to elders 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: past and present, and we share our friendship and our kindness. 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money. 9 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back. We're celebrating 11 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: International Women's Week because International Women's Stages simply was not 12 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: enough for us here in this office. 13 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: And we've just made it up. We've just decided International 14 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: women is going to be a thing because International Women's 15 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: Day just doesn't encompass enough for us one hundred percent. 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 3: So we've been chatting to some incredible people this week 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 3: and today we have Kate Fenwick, who is a transgender 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 3: Diversity and Inclusions specialist and a public health student. Last year, 19 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 3: Kate was announced as one of out for Australia's thirty 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 3: under thirty spotlighting young LGBTQIA plus people that make tremendous 21 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: contributions to bettering the lives of this community here in Australia. 22 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 3: We are so thrilled to be joined by them the 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 3: International Women's Week. Kate, Hello, how are you a team? 24 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 4: How are we doing today? 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: I am so excited to have wrangled you into a podcast. 26 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: This is going to be a banger, my friend. 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 4: Happy to be here, Happy to be here, Kate. 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Before we get on with the very first question, I 29 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: know your pronouns. I've been using them for a farewell now, 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: but for everybody listening along that might not have met 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: you before, what are your pronouns and how do we 32 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: use them appropriately? 33 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 4: Yeah? 34 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: For sure. 35 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 4: So my preferred pronouns and preferred is such a bad 36 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 4: habit to get into, because it's just your personal pronoun right, 37 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 4: They're not preferred, their mandatory They them or he him. 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 4: You can use them interchangeably. The reason why they're both 39 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 4: there is because you can use them as you see fit. 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 4: I just don't don't subscribe to the she's and the hertz. 41 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 4: So that's why there's there's many options for folk whatever 42 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 4: they like. 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: Kate. One of the caveats of winning THEFA thirty under 44 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: thirty is that a person is quote living with authenticity, 45 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 1: courage and resilience, demonstrating the qualities of a role model. Honestly, 46 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: what an incredible thing to be recognized for at any age, 47 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: let alone under the age of thirty. Kate, tell us 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: what was your path to getting there? 49 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, so thirty on to thirty was a big piece. 50 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 4: Took off a lot of time last year in terms 51 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 4: of different events and preparing proposals, and my incredible mentor 52 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 4: GEM actually nominated me for that award, which was really 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 4: a special moment, and I think it was a calm Nasi. 54 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 4: I wear a lot of hats, I guess, in terms 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 4: of being a student in the work that I do, 56 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 4: in terms of like community advocacy type staff and pieces 57 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 4: in across the creative industries. So trying to pick, I 58 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 4: guess the category that felt most authentic was challenging, But 59 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 4: I think we went with student in the end because 60 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 4: studying public health feedbacks off a lot of the equity 61 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 4: and inclusion stuff that I do at work, and I 62 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 4: think that in order for folk to show up as 63 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 4: their authentic selves and have a really incredible life. The 64 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 4: access and equitable experiences in terms of healthcare for trans, 65 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 4: intersex and gender diverse folk is integral to that. So yeah, 66 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 4: it was an honor to be part of it. There 67 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 4: was so many incredible folk that got the opportunity to 68 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 4: share their stories and the way that OUT for Australia 69 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 4: curates the award that recipients like the goodie bags that 70 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 4: we received, like all of the businesses that they purchased 71 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 4: the gifts from, you know, really invested in championing lgbt 72 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 4: QUI A plus inclusion and you know, it was just 73 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 4: incredible to be able to try, you know, use some 74 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 4: of those products and businesses that are really centering our experiences. 75 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: How cool. So for those of us who haven't heard 76 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: of out for Australia before, who are they? What do 77 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: they do? 78 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 4: So out for Australia has many different arms to what 79 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 4: they do. The thirty under thirty awards annually is you 80 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 4: know a big one, but they also have like a 81 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 4: mentoring section so that folk from you know, intergenerationally, like 82 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 4: across the community can get involved and that can be 83 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 4: you know through study like mental support, or it might 84 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 4: be with career or you know social media creativity, like 85 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 4: you know, things that you do outside of work too, 86 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 4: and then they also have, you know, the opportunity for 87 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 4: Lgbtquia folk in business to lend their skills and do 88 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: some volunteering as well. And then they do events throughout 89 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 4: the year like on different equity inclusion issues for LGBTQI 90 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 4: plus folk. So really they're doing a lot. 91 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: They are very cool and I feel like I want 92 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: to use this space as well to promote them and 93 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: go go check them out. But Kate, something I love 94 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: about you is that you are wildly passionate about dismantling 95 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: exclusive organizational culture and you really center the lived experience 96 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: of underrepresented people within workplaces and within healthcare. I want 97 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: to know from your experiences, what are some of the 98 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: things that you've encountered as a change maker in the 99 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: business world, whether that be positive, negative or neutral. 100 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 101 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 4: So, I suppose in Australia diversity, equity inclusion is probably 102 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 4: more of an emerging discipline than perhaps some of our 103 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 4: neighbors in the UK, Europe and the US. So I 104 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 4: think that Australia, as a cohort, we have a bit 105 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 4: of a collective mindset of everyone has a fair go 106 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 4: and we talk a lot about how our sort of 107 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 4: national identity is built on that idea of mate of 108 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 4: an inclusion, and I guess systemically we know that that's 109 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 4: not true based on the lived experiences of particularly our 110 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: First Nations communities of the lgbt QUI a plus community 111 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 4: of women and folk living with accessibility requirements or disability. 112 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 4: So I think spelling it out and sort of reframing 113 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 4: that that's seen across the business world in terms of 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 4: inclusion and really understanding that it's a systemic problem as 115 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 4: opposed to individual concerns has been really refreshing. And I 116 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 4: can see that, you know a lot of the organizations 117 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 4: that work without for Australia, you know, are really putting 118 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 4: that ownership back onto to the systems that you know 119 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 4: are the cause of these inequities as opposed to the 120 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 4: individuals themselves. And I think continuing that conversation is really important, 121 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 4: particularly as we head into you know, it's Martographs Seas 122 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 4: at the moment, you've just had Midsummer, you know, and 123 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 4: of course IWD all about those those systems that are 124 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 4: the problem, not the people. 125 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 3: I'm really interested to know because obviously there's two really 126 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: amazing aspects to you in your journey. You've got your 127 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 3: personal side, but you also obviously work in this space professionally, 128 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 3: and you've worked historically as a diversity and inclusion specialist 129 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: with a number of businesses. Can you tell us a 130 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: little bit about why it's important for businesses to be 131 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: considering this, why they should be bringing in specialists such 132 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 3: as yourself, and a little bit about maybe the strategies 133 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,239 Speaker 3: or things that you often come across when you're working 134 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 3: with them. Yeah. 135 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 4: I think for contemporary businesses it's integral to have equity 136 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 4: and inclusion diversity specialists working with you. I mean, it's 137 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 4: an ASX listed requirement for folk to have policy and 138 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 4: procedure in place that relates to diversity and inclusion. And 139 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 4: I guess historically those policies in businesses have probably been 140 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 4: compiled by folk that might not necessarily have lived experience 141 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 4: or you know, the background or understanding of what themplication 142 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 4: of having those policies that don't speak to the communities 143 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 4: in which they're looking to serve hit the mark. So 144 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 4: I think it is really vital that there are specialist 145 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 4: people or even dedicated teams. And I guess allowing those 146 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 4: people and their teams to reach out and you know, 147 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 4: collaborate with other folk in their industry or whether that's 148 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 4: you know, lived experienced consultants. Because no matter how grand 149 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 4: you know your diversity inclusion team is, there's always going 150 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 4: to be intersections that aren't covered off, if you like, 151 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 4: So there's always going to be people that don't have 152 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 4: lived experience in one of the facets that you might 153 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 4: be looking to make some change in. And you know, 154 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 4: collaborating with community members for meaningful employment is one thing 155 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 4: from a sustainability perspective, but it also just means that 156 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 4: folk have the opportunity to, you know, look outside their 157 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 4: immediate teams and understand more from those the communities in 158 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 4: which they operate. 159 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 3: And that's so important, isn't it Just to having a 160 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 3: diverse group of people. I feel like you don't get 161 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 3: the range of ideas or perspectives. You can't really offer 162 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: a product or a service if it's not inclusive by 163 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: nature by your team. 164 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 4: Right, that's exactly right, And I think you know yourself. 165 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 4: Jess and Victoria and the Sheets on the Money crew 166 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 4: are very keen to understand more and more about particularly 167 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 4: what millennials are looking for in terms of you know, 168 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 4: employment and talent acquisition and retention within businesses. And I 169 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: think that Forbes and HBr and all the big sort 170 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 4: of organizations that create articles and write on this stuff. 171 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 4: You know, as a generation, it's that's why we're staying 172 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 4: with businesses or why we're leaving them if that equity 173 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 4: and inclusion piece isn't up to par, because people don't 174 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 4: want to offer products and services to individuals that might 175 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 4: I guess be excluded by nature of who they are 176 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 4: from you know, fully optimizing their experience with that service 177 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 4: or product offering. 178 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: Are you seeing pushback from organizations and I know that 179 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: you know, you work in this space a fair bit, 180 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: so you might, but are you seeing pushback from organizations 181 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: to really embrace this diversity and inclusion piece? Because I 182 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: just feel like from my perspective, and I know from 183 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: justice perspective, it's a no brainer to be making sure 184 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: that you are open and accessible and embracing diversity and 185 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: making sure that every single person in your team feels 186 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: respected and honored and comfortable and welcomed. But why would 187 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: people be I guess opposed to embracing the idea of 188 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: having a diversity and inclusion specialists come into their business. 189 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it's a big area of explanation, right. 190 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 4: And I think once you start, irrespective of the size 191 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 4: of your business or where you work or who you 192 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,239 Speaker 4: work for, I think once you unravel one maybe opportunity 193 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 4: that you have when it comes to equity and inclusion, 194 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 4: it's a domino effect, right. And when we back to 195 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 4: those intersections of folks, age, gender, sexuality, lived experienced, you know, disability, 196 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 4: or whatever market you're looking at when it comes to 197 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 4: diversity and inclusion. Once you open that cane of word 198 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: and so to speak, it can take the capacity of 199 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 4: whole teams. Particularly when you're looking at operational guidance and 200 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 4: systems and reinventing different parts of the way that you 201 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: do business or your daily operations. It can be really 202 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 4: really challenging. You know, off the back of COVID nineteen 203 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 4: and the changes that businesses have had to make in 204 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 4: terms of their structure and way that they do things, 205 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 4: there can be capacity constraints. And I think that you know, 206 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 4: a good equity and inclusion specialist will recognize and work 207 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 4: with businesses to understand that where those capacity constraints lie 208 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 4: and how to best mend and move forward so that 209 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 4: those tasks can be completed in a way that feels 210 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 4: really authentic for communities. 211 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: I feel like it can be seen as being really 212 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: inauthentic when bigger companies start to embrace it, and you 213 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: just go, oh, my gosh, this feels really tokenistic or 214 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: it just feels like they're doing it for the brownie 215 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: points when that should not ever be the driver. How 216 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: can organizations and people embrace that without you know, having 217 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: that layer of tokenism put over the top of it. 218 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: I just feel like, especially for bigger organizations, and I 219 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: don't want to name names, but sometimes you see it 220 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: and you just go, are you serious? Like that's not 221 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: how it should have been approached, Like is this them 222 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: getting advice from people like you? Or is this then 223 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: maybe just diy ing it and doing what they think 224 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: the world wants to hear from them. 225 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 4: I have like a lot of mixed feelings when it 226 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 4: comes to the idea of the pink dollar around things 227 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 4: like IWD, Mardi Gras pick a diversity Data of significance 228 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 4: that sort of corporates or organizations of any kind spending 229 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 4: money on these kind of things, and I think, you know, 230 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 4: there's a lot of pushback from members of the LGBTQIA 231 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 4: plus community in relation to you know, corporate floats or 232 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 4: different bits and pieces for days of significance. And I 233 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 4: think that at the end of the day, like queen 234 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 4: people use bank, they use health services, they use all 235 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 4: of the different tools or mechanisms that a lot of 236 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 4: these big organizations provide communities. So if you know, I 237 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 4: guess rolling down a straight on a float or having 238 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 4: an IWD type poster in their window or something of 239 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 4: that nature, is you know where they're looking to create 240 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 4: stepping stones to engage communities. I think that that is 241 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 4: an inherently good thing too. I think sometimes there's a 242 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 4: lot of hypercriticism on these different pieces. Everything should be 243 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 4: approached with a really genuine place type activity. But if 244 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: we keep relegating folk to ideas of cancel culture or 245 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 4: folk being so afraid of saying or doing or implementing 246 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 4: the right thing, change won't occur. People won't put themselves 247 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 4: out there and attempt to change things because at least 248 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 4: by doing the first step, and perhaps if they are 249 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 4: wrong and it does come across as tokenistic, well, isn't 250 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 4: that feeback for next time? Where they could potentially employ 251 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 4: a consultant or have a look at how they could 252 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 4: do things better next time. But if they don't start 253 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,839 Speaker 4: in the first place, you'd never know what the opportunities 254 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 4: could be. 255 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: I adore that take, and I adore it for a 256 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: couple of reasons, and the first is earlier this week, 257 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: we spoke to Jess Quinn, who is a very big 258 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: advocate of the differently abled space, and she said pretty 259 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: much exactly what you said. She's like, I don't care 260 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: if I end up being the token model on a 261 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: wrong way and everybody else is a tall, thin model, 262 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: and then it's me in there for inclusion purposes, because 263 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: they could be one person in the audience that really 264 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: feels heard and seen because of that. And I just 265 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: feel like sometimes we have these conversations and people jump 266 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: down each other's throats before going have we actually put 267 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: ourselves in the position of these people that we can't 268 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: ever put ourselves in the position of and ask them 269 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: how do you feel about this? Because I think so 270 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: often and we see this, you know, in our face 271 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: book group, we see it online in a million different 272 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: places of people. I guess promoting that cancel culture of 273 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: like you can't say that you can't do that. That 274 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: was a token thing to say or do, whereas we 275 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: should really be going, hey, kay, you're in this space, 276 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: what do you think about that? And you go, oh, 277 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: I think it's great. Any steps a step in the 278 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: right direction. From my perspective, you know, there might have 279 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: been better if they'd used a different color or I 280 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: don't really like that font, but it's one of those 281 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: things where from your perspective, I just don't think it's 282 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: how do I say this as sensitive as a lot 283 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: of people seem to take it when companies start to 284 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: embrace this community, because embracing the community is what we've 285 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: been asking for, and I feel like we are so 286 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: happy that that's now happening. 287 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 288 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 4: I think that the tokenism pace is a really multifaceted, 289 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 4: privilege ridden ideal, right, Like I feel like there's no 290 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 4: guidelines or structure of what you know, tokenism isn't an 291 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 4: like if there are those guidelines or structures in place. 292 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 4: It's different for every intersection of the community. And I 293 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 4: think that people basically just need to have a go. 294 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 4: And you know, obviously it's an organizational or a corporate 295 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 4: sort of sentiment to want to have all your ducks 296 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 4: in a row before going to market with certain bits 297 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 4: and pieces. But I think more and more back to 298 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 4: that millennial's piece about where they choose to spend their 299 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: time or which organizations they elect to work for when 300 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 4: there's a choice involved, I think that there is that 301 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 4: sentiment of like, we just want to see folk having 302 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 4: a go, because it really does getting the way of 303 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 4: progress when people aren't, you know, taking a leap to 304 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 4: begin with, it's never too late. 305 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: I would hope not to go into I guess the 306 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: meaning of why we've got you here this week? We 307 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: obviously have had earlier this week International Women's Day, and 308 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk about the meaning of International 309 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: Women's Day and their lgbt QIA plus communities view on 310 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: what that is and whether they embrace it or push 311 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: it away. How do we make sure that on a 312 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: day where it's so about, you know, quote women, how 313 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: do we make sure that we aren't up here saying okay, 314 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: well this is what's most important? 315 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. And I guess, you know, as a caveat, 316 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 4: I guess my perspective doesn't eclipse you know, of course, 317 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 4: not all of you know, our rainbow acronym if you like. 318 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 4: But I think that what we can all commit to 319 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 4: for International Women's Day is ensuring that you know, there's 320 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 4: diverse representation of the folk that we know consume content 321 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 4: of of the events that we attend. I'm not really 322 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 4: interested in an International Women's Day that you know, isn't 323 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 4: sharing the experiences of trans women or women who have 324 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 4: lived experience of disability, or First Nations women and sister girls, 325 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 4: or those that are incarcerated or you know, might be 326 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 4: a sex worker or use drugs. I think that there's 327 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 4: a lot of women are consistently left behind, and I 328 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 4: think that it's really important too to remember that whilst 329 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 4: many folk in the LGBTQIA plus community might you know, 330 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 4: they may not identify as female, many of us have 331 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 4: a lived experience of walking through the world as female 332 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 4: or woman or being perceived as such, even if that's incorrect. So, 333 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 4: you know, making sure that your spaces are inclusive of 334 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 4: gender diverse folk and folk that are non binary or 335 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 4: intersex is really really important because I don't ever want 336 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 4: the community to feel as if that day is not 337 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 4: for them, because it most certainly is. 338 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: No absolutely, I'm going to go to a really quick 339 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: break here and then when we come back, I've got 340 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: even more questions about International Women's Day. But then also 341 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: I want to deep dive when they need a gritty 342 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: of your mental health and how you have such a 343 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: good bloody mindset. We'll be back in a hot minute, 344 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: all right. We are having a lovely conversation with my 345 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: friend and she's on the Money community member Kate Fenwick. 346 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: Kate is a transgender diversity and inclusion specialist and public 347 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: health student and as we said earlier in the episode, 348 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: last year, Kate was announced is one of the out 349 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: for Australia's thirty under thirty, spotlighting young Lgbtquia plus people 350 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: who are making a tremendous contribution towards bettering the lives 351 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: of their community in Australia. Kate, before we went to 352 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: a break, we were talking about what International Women's Day 353 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: means to the as you called it, rainbow acronym community, 354 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: which I thought was rather cute. But I want to 355 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: know what it means for you. What does International Women's 356 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: Day mean for you as someone who was presumed female 357 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: at birth? 358 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 4: That's great one. I think International Women's Day, you know, 359 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 4: is all about celebrating you know, the musicians and the 360 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 4: artists and the folk that have had an inherent impact 361 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 4: on may about you know, communicating and learning and understanding 362 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 4: more with like my own mother, who has been so 363 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 4: central to my understanding and early interest in you know, 364 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 4: diversity and inclusion. Definitely wasn't called that back then, but 365 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 4: that's what it was to her teachings as a primary 366 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 4: school educator, about reflecting and thinking about the contributions that 367 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 4: my grandmothers have made on my life who are no 368 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 4: longer with us, and you know, thinking about, you know, 369 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 4: how they'd interpret the world now if they were, and 370 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,239 Speaker 4: what our relationship would look like now. I think that's 371 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 4: always a really nice thing to engage with, thinking about 372 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 4: the incredible women that I work with. Diversity and inclusion 373 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 4: often in Australia sits within human resources spaces, which are 374 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 4: you know, typically or have been historically female dominated, I suppose, 375 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 4: and it's really interesting. I haven't previously worked in spaces that, 376 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 4: you know, we're quite female dominated, and it's a really 377 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 4: refreshing experience to understand and learn more about what those 378 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 4: spaces look like. And you know, having those mentors around 379 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 4: you every day is incredible LinkedIn has been a really 380 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 4: good one in terms of IWD and thinking about the 381 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 4: mentorship and support that I've received from folk over there. Yeah, 382 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 4: I feel like it's such a hard question to answer 383 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 4: because it is so multifaceted, and I think break the 384 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 4: bias this year allows you to really consider as the 385 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 4: theme allows you to really consider those varying perspectives, and 386 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 4: you know, understand more about you know where to from 387 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 4: here and what your personal responsibility is and what our 388 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 4: responsibility is as part of the communities in which we reside. 389 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: In one hundred percent, and I want to talk a 390 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 3: little bit about what you were saying with how diversity 391 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 3: inclusion today looks very different from how it did. It 392 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 3: didn't even really exist the way we know of it, 393 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 3: you know, when your mum was young, or when your 394 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 3: grandma was young. And I think now we have to 395 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: recognize that as much as it's International Women's Day, our 396 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 3: understanding of what a woman is now is vastly different 397 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 3: from the very black and white perspective that we may 398 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: be viewed it from a couple of decades ago. And 399 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 3: now there may be people who are somewhere along their 400 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 3: journey and maybe they're transitioning from male to female, female 401 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 3: to male. Maybe they're still learning to understand their pronouns 402 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 3: and how they feel comfortable. How can we best support 403 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 3: or best be allies to those people who maybe don't 404 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 3: present in a way that we would traditionally consider them 405 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 3: a woman. How do we make sure that we're not 406 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 3: excluding people from these conversations who absolutely deserve to be 407 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 3: there and deserve to be a part of it. Because, 408 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 3: you know, going back to that thing with cancel culture, 409 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 3: I think that people are really quick to want to 410 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 3: make this about women, and there is, as you said, 411 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: kind of a traditional view of what that woman is. 412 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 3: And breaking the bias, I think to me really means 413 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 3: taking a step back from that and going, hey, like, 414 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 3: it's actually much broader than you might think it is, 415 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: and it's important. I think that we're welcoming everybody. How 416 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: can we do that and how can we avoid falling 417 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 3: into that trap of saying, oh, you're a man, you 418 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 3: shouldn't be celebrating international women's Say this one's for the women. 419 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good one. And I think that breaking 420 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 4: down stereotypes and understanding of the gender binary as being 421 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 4: you know, so black and white is inherently good for everyone. 422 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 4: It doesn't just benefit trans intersex, gender diverse people, sister girls, 423 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 4: brother boys. It benefits all because it removes arbitrary pressures 424 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 4: that aren't real. So I think in terms of, you know, 425 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 4: similar to what Victoria does in terms of sharing more 426 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 4: about She's on the money and who's it for? And 427 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 4: what it does is whilst you know, the title might 428 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 4: be She's on the Money, or the title might be 429 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 4: International Women's Day, really reinforcing that you know, your event 430 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 4: is for everyone to attend. You know that you really want, 431 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 4: you know, even a little note down the bottom, like 432 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 4: we really hope that you know, trans and gender diverse 433 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 4: women feel really empowered to take up space as part 434 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 4: of our event, you know, listening to our stories, sharing 435 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 4: in that lived experience. And I think that when you 436 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 4: walk through the world of someone who has presumed female 437 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 4: at birth and is now perhaps more interested in centering 438 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 4: you know, personal masculinity or whatever, I think it's a 439 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 4: really rich thing that the transgender diverse community brings to 440 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 4: the world. I mean, you know, for employers, for people 441 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 4: that are you know, in community, it's like this person 442 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 4: has got a really broad perspective that they can bring 443 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 4: to the table based on their lived experiences, and therefore, 444 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 4: you know, why wouldn't you want to send to that 445 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 4: person's ways of being, doing, and knowing at an event 446 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 4: that's aligned with International Women's Day. It's an opportunity for 447 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 4: all of us to share and understand more about one another. 448 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 4: And what can be done to break the bias. 449 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: I suppose good good wrap into the theme of today. 450 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: But I have another question, and it's kind of like 451 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: flipping the narrative of what you've been saying, because I 452 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: would hate to think that anyone in our community doesn't 453 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: feel welcome because as you know, Kate that she and 454 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: she's on the money, as you alluded to before, it's 455 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: actually me, it's not it's not the community, it's not 456 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: women only. It is whoever feels like they want to 457 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: come and hang out with us, They are welcome. I 458 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: don't care what you wear, I don't care who you are, 459 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: don't care what you identify as. I just want to 460 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: make sure that we are surrounded by kind humans. And 461 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: I feel like that's ound non negotiable, right. You've got 462 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: to be a kind, open human to be part of 463 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: our community. But what are your greatest concerns for the 464 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: LGBTQIA plus community in twenty twenty two. I feel like 465 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: we've made some progress, but it's from my perspective, not 466 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: nearly enough. What are your biggest concerns? 467 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 4: Gosh, And like, you know, don't have the stats in 468 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 4: front of me, but I think, you know, in terms 469 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,239 Speaker 4: of housing, health equity, like finances. Our community grew up 470 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 4: off the back of generations that came before us, of 471 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 4: people who things like retirement, they didn't get there. You know. 472 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 4: We think about our siblings that went through the AIDS epidemic, 473 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 4: They went through systematic erasia, through you know, all different channels, 474 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 4: and you know, unfortunately they didn't live long enough to 475 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 4: think about what retirement potentially could look like. And I 476 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 4: think that there's been a societal change of realizing that 477 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 4: we are still here, you know, as a community, and 478 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 4: you know, we need to put mechanisms and pieces in 479 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 4: place to ensure that our futures are bright so that 480 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 4: we can access the health care that we're required. People 481 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 4: forget to realize that transigender diverse people and intersex folk 482 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 4: in our community is when it comes to healthcare in 483 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 4: a lot of respects are still guinea picks. You know, 484 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 4: there's so much that we don't know about the long 485 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 4: term impacts of things like HRT, of different procedures that 486 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 4: folk might go through in order to actualize as their 487 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 4: true self. And we would hate to ever, you know, 488 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 4: steer people away from living that authentic life. But you know, 489 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 4: there's so much unknown, and we see that these conversations 490 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 4: are centered on the existence of trans children, those different 491 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 4: things that might be done to enable those kids to 492 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 4: be their true selves. We talk about that in isolation. 493 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 4: The media does anyway, and it's like funding an investment 494 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 4: in our health and our care is vital in order 495 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 4: for our community to be able to thrive and to 496 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 4: understand and know more. And the same can be said 497 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 4: of women's health and of folk with disability in terms 498 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 4: of you know, we know all the stories, and we 499 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 4: have friends and family members and loved ones that deal 500 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 4: with you know, gnological type concerns that you know don't 501 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 4: get unraveled for years, and that's purely because the money 502 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 4: and the study and the investment hasn't been placed on 503 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 4: understanding more about those issues that seemingly impact half the population. Right. So, yeah, 504 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 4: I think a lot of the concerns for the LGBTQIA 505 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 4: plus community are not dissimilar to other intersections of our communities, 506 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 4: and it's just about understanding more about through conversations like 507 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 4: this and storytelling of you know, making people aware of 508 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 4: what those those gaps can so that we can actually 509 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 4: make some tangible change. 510 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,360 Speaker 1: That's something that She's on the Money is trying very 511 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: hard to make space for. I think with the podcast 512 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: and with the community that we've built. We now have 513 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: more than a million people in this community. We've obviously 514 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: got quite a big Facebook group, but the podcast is 515 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: arguably so much bigger. But as we grow, I feel 516 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: this overwhelming sense of responsibility to make even more space 517 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: for the minorities in my community, to make their voices 518 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: feel heard and then use our power in She's on 519 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: the Money to make sure that they are lifted up 520 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: and celebrated and also supported through the journeys that they 521 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,479 Speaker 1: go through. To be honest, this is a bit of 522 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: a selfish question, Kate. How can She's on the Money 523 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: better support our community? How can we do better? 524 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 2: Yeah? 525 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 4: I mean historically, like She's on the Money, He's partnered 526 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 4: with some great sponsors and I think, you know, moving forward, 527 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 4: are there the opportunities of partnerships and sponsorships from continuing 528 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 4: on the threads of you know, female founded or First 529 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 4: Nations owned or LGBTQIA owned, to share with the community 530 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 4: more products and resources that might be aligned to them. 531 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 4: I noted that continuing the good work for the She's 532 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 4: on the money events that are coming up with things 533 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 4: like and ensuring accessibility for folk to be able to 534 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 4: enjoy and attend those events and not feel compromised, that's 535 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 4: a great one. Continuing doing what you're doing is a 536 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 4: great start. But just yeah, more ways to incorporate resources 537 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 4: and partnerships with historically underrepresented folk and platforming their services and. 538 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 3: Offerings incredible, Kate, I just wanted to touch on obviously, 539 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 3: you've gone through your own journey and you've been pretty 540 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 3: open about sharing that on your social media, which I 541 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 3: think has been incredible, And there's a very good chance 542 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 3: that there's going to be some people listening today who 543 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 3: identify with that and who maybe are not quite as 544 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 3: far along as you are and maybe having a little 545 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 3: bit of an internal struggle coming to terms with themselves 546 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: and who they feel like they truly are and who 547 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 3: they true you want to be. If someone is having 548 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 3: a tough time, what would you say to them? Is 549 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 3: there any resources out there that you can recommend? How 550 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 3: has your own journey gone? What wisdom can you give 551 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 3: someone now looking back having come so far? 552 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 4: Yeah? So, I mean when I was sort of nineteen 553 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 4: twenty heading down this path to understand more about what 554 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 4: my gender identity is, this resource certainly didn't exist, and 555 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 4: I'm so glad it does for folk embarking on this 556 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 4: journey now, or even folks that have been part of 557 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 4: this journey for a really long time but are just 558 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 4: seeking more or their allies. Is trans Hub. So it's 559 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 4: developed by Acorns. They have a whole team of folk 560 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 4: who identify as trans or having a lived experience of 561 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 4: gender diversity, by the Boys Sister Girls. They've created this 562 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 4: resource and it's sort of broken into three sections and 563 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 4: it's like social legal and the other component has escaped 564 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 4: me right now, but it's basically breaking down into really 565 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 4: like actionable steps for folk to take in terms of 566 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 4: seeking out a gender affirming doctor or a surgeon, or 567 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 4: you know, resources for templates to provide your employer if 568 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 4: you've got to ask for certain accommodations to be made. 569 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 4: And this Hub, you know, really breaks down the sister 570 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 4: girl and brother boy experience, as well as providing services 571 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 4: like trans Vitality and social well bases for building resilience 572 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 4: in a world isn't necessarily always accommodating for folks that 573 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 4: identify as transorgendered over so, I love that trans Hub 574 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 4: is you one stop shop really for everyone, for allies too. 575 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 4: There's a whole ally section. If you need to know 576 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 4: more about how to support a loved one or even 577 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 4: an employee or community member, that's great. 578 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: I think everybody should take a couple of minutes and 579 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: visit the website, regardless of whether you have a friend 580 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: or a family member who is going through that, because 581 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: if you're in the She's on the Money community, we 582 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: have community members going through that, and the more supported 583 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,719 Speaker 1: they are. It's not just about having that outward support, 584 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: it's actually about education, and the more education that is 585 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: going around and the more knowledge about this space, the better. 586 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're experiencing it or not. Education is, honestly, 587 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: from my perspective, the key to things like this and 588 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: understanding what others are going through. You're never going to 589 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: be able to put yourself in their shoes, but at 590 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: least you'll know how to support them in the best 591 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: possible way. 592 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 3: One thousand percent. And I'm sure that there are definitely 593 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: we know that there are small business owners in our community, 594 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 3: and we would really encourage you. If it's something you're 595 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 3: thinking about or want to learn more about, to engage 596 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 3: a specialist in this area. 597 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: You can just go to Kate. Kate will do it. 598 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 3: I was going to say, Kate, do you have a website? 599 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 3: Do you have is there anywhere that you can recommend 600 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 3: people go if they are looking for someone to provide 601 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 3: this kind of educational resource to their team to ensure 602 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 3: that they're putting their best foot forward in this space 603 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 3: and being as open and welcoming as a business as 604 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 3: they possibly can be. 605 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 4: Look, clearly, I'm Acorn's number one fanboy, so you've got 606 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 4: trans hard. But then for folk that are working, working 607 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 4: in organizations or looking to have further support, there's also 608 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 4: pride in diversity, which is a different of what Acorn 609 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 4: does to provide support. And you know, perhaps I can 610 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 4: send some through to v to pop in the show 611 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 4: notes for different states around Australia as well, because obviously 612 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 4: my frame of reference is definitely a monup on a 613 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 4: warbicle country in Newcastle in New South Wales. So yeah, 614 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 4: get those resources specific to the areas that you're in. 615 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: That would be so helpful. I really appreciate you doing 616 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: the work for us, even though you definitely don't have to, Kate, 617 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: we have taken up more than enough of your time 618 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: and we're incredibly grateful for it. But just before we go, 619 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: I want to ask one question that we have asked 620 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: all of the change makers that have been on the 621 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: podcast this week, and that is how have you celebrated 622 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: International Women's Day. 623 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good one. Keeping it pretty pretty low key. 624 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 4: Prepping for a surgery at the end of this month, 625 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 4: so keeping things a bit quiet, which is exciting. Yes, 626 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 4: we love to see it. What I want to do 627 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 4: is make a donation to Sisters Inside. So Sister is 628 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 4: Inside is it's an independent like community organization. It's based 629 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 4: off in Queensland and they basically like assist folk who 630 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 4: are entering or returning from prison to have like a 631 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 4: better integration I suppose, either back into society or if 632 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 4: they are stepping into the prison system, how they can 633 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 4: best be supported, whether it be for health issues or 634 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 4: you know substance use. A big portion of their community 635 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 4: is First Nations women and they provide different resources and 636 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 4: opportunities for those folk trans women as well. To know, 637 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 4: I guess have a better relationship or interaction I guess 638 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 4: with a system that maybe historically hasn't been very supportive 639 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 4: of them. 640 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: They sound like legends. We will make sure link to 641 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: them is in our show notes. But Kate, as always, unfortunately, 642 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: that is all we have time for today. 643 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 3: And remember the I sheared on. She's on the money 644 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 3: is generally nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. 645 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 3: Shees on the money exists purely for educational purposes and 646 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 3: should not be relied upon to make an investment or 647 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 3: a financial decision. And we promised. Victoria Divine is an 648 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 3: authorized representative of Infocused Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN four 649 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 3: seven oh nine seven seven ninety seven O four nine 650 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 3: AFSL two three six five two three See you next week. 651 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 3: Why