1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like your day is slipping through 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: your fingers, one unchecked email at a time. In today's 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: Quick Win episode, I'm joined by Professor Adam Alter, the 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: New York Times bestselling author of books including Irresistible and 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: Anatomy of a Breakthrough. Adam is someone who thinks deeply 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: about how he uses his time, and in today's show, 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: you'll learn how to make sure small tasks never hold 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: you back from achieving your big goals. My name is 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 10 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And this is how I 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: work a show about how to help you do your 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: best work. On today's quick Win episode, we go back 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: to an interview from the past and I pick out 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: a quick win that you can apply today. In today's show, 15 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I speak with Adam Alter, where I ask you about 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: his favorite time saving hack. 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: My favorite time saving hack is it's actually something I 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: wrote about in my last book, which is I think 19 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 2: I'm perhaps a little pathological on this front. I go 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: a little too far, but I don't let little tasks 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 2: or little niggles hang around very long. I'm sort of known, 22 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: I think for responding to emails absurdly fast, even to 23 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: the point where perhaps that encroaches on my ability to 24 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: get really deep work done across big stretches of time, 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: because I turn my time into confetti doing that. Perhaps, 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: but I don't let things linger. I like to get 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: the little things out the way, and I found that 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 2: over the years when I stop doing that to try 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: different approaches, I get slower and less productive in every 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: other respect. And so that sort of immediately try to 31 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: get these small things out of the way approach has 32 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: been very effective for me. And I think one of 33 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: the reasons for that is that when you leave things, 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: they get bigger and they might demand a minute to 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: deal with. Now, first of all, they occupy a lot 36 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: of psychic space if you don't deal with them, and 37 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: so they end up being massive distractions. That's at least 38 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: how my brain works, and so getting them out the 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: way is a good idea from that perspective. But also 40 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: they often grow in scope and magnitude, and so I 41 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: find that almost every time I have an engagement, a 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: consulting engagement, anything like that, the longer the time horizon, 43 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: the less effective I am. Overall, My efficiency declines, and 44 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: so that sort of get in there quick, do it, 45 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: get it done, move beyond it approach has been very 46 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: very effective for me. 47 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: How does that work? So I can see in email 48 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: that would work by just responding to things using a 49 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: single touch approach, I guess to emails, whereas many of 50 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: us will open the same email ten times before we 51 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: actually do something with it. How does it work outside 52 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: of the inbox? 53 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: So I use Workflowy, which is a very very simple 54 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: list and I've been using it for as long as 55 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: I think it's been a product that was on the market, 56 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: and it's the most simple to do list system that 57 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: there is that I've found. And I organize the list. 58 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: It's very easy to reorganize the order of things. I 59 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: organize it from smallest to biggest, and so whenever I 60 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: have a spare moment, I'll just go to that list 61 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: and say, well, what's at the top there? And that's 62 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: always the smallest thing and usually the most short term thing, 63 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: And so I'm constantly kind of shooting down these smaller 64 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: things that then are out of the way and they 65 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 2: clear the way for the bigger things. So although doing that, 66 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: I think does encroach on my ability to have say 67 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: an unbroken four hour stretch doing whatever I want to do. 68 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: On balance, those four hour stretches become more available because 69 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: I've got those small things out the way in spare 70 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: moments here and there. So it's got this paradoxical effect. 71 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: It does sort of shred your time into smaller bits. 72 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: But I think it also has this effect because you're 73 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: constantly moving those things aside of leaving just the big 74 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: tasks left, and I find that's really useful. 75 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my own inbox, and I feel like 76 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: there are always emails that I just sit on or 77 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: procrastinate over, or just seem too complex or really they're 78 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: an email, but they should just move to the to 79 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: do list. Like, what are the specific strategies that you're using, 80 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: maybe some of the less obvious ones to actually clean 81 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: out your inbox daily. 82 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 2: I don't know that they're less obvious, but what I 83 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: have three places where things go. They never sit in 84 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: my inbox for long. That's like short term or working memory. 85 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: I think of it this way. I think of it 86 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: as working memory, short term memory, and then long term memory. 87 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: That's sort of the equivalent of what's going on. But 88 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: for me, short term sorry, working memory that immediate burst 89 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 2: of hey, here's something to do. That's the email inbox, 90 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: and I don't want to have to deal with things 91 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 2: in working memory. I want to file them away so 92 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: that things from there are then put into my workflowy list, 93 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: my task list, that's my short term memory. So you know, 94 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: twenty times a day, maybe I'll quickly go and take 95 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: a glance at that and say, well, where are we 96 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: up to? Sometimes, if I'm really busy, I'll start numbering things, 97 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: or say this is for Monday, this is for Tuesday, 98 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: this is for Wednesday, and so on. But then there 99 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: are some things, like you described, it just kind of 100 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 2: sit there. They're like anchors and they never go anywhere, 101 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 2: and they can be there for months or years. Even 102 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: for those, I move them out of workflow and they 103 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 2: become calendar reminders. So I'll say something like I don't 104 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: want to have to keep looking at this. I certainly 105 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: don't want it in my email. I don't even want 106 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: it in workflowy anymore because it's just clattering my mind. 107 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 2: So what I'm going to do is I'm going to 108 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: just kind of put a big snooze button on that 109 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: and I'll have it pop up, say once a week 110 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: for the next four weeks, and if it pops up 111 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: and I happen to have a bit of time slack, 112 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: I will then address it there. And I find that 113 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: to be really useful because I think for me a 114 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: lot of what this is, this sort of productivity approach, 115 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: is about leaving as little clutter in my head as possible. 116 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 2: Because my biggest enemy is multitasking. I cannot do it. 117 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: I think it's a myth. Anyone who claims to be 118 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: able to do it. I'd like to know more about that, 119 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 2: because for me, it's a nightmare. And so I really 120 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: need to be very focused when I do something, even 121 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: in very short bursts. And so all of this is 122 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 2: in the service of that. It's about saying put that 123 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: on the back burner, and that even on the long term, 124 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: long term memory back burner, where I don't even want 125 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: to think about it till it pops up as a 126 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: reminder in a week or two or three. 127 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 128 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 129 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 130 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving 131 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: three to interesting research findings. You can sign up to 132 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: that at Howiwork dot co. That's how I Work dot co. 133 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing part of your day with me 134 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for 135 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: more tips on how to work better, connect with me 136 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just 137 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on 138 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the 139 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able 140 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: to work and live on this beautiful land, and I 141 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: want to pay my respects to elders, past, present and emerging. 142 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventium with production and 143 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: support from Dead Set Studios. And thank you to Martin 144 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: Nimba who did the audio mix and makes everything sound 145 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: better than it would have otherwise.