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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, we really do want to take pleasure in one

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Speaker 2: another's company. We want to connect in deeper, meaningful ways,

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Speaker 2: and while the nature of that relationship shifts as our

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Speaker 2: children develop. I think that it's okay to be friends

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Speaker 2: with your kids.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, it's doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy Families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot au. Kylie, are you ready for another

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Speaker 2: explosive parenting myth Happy Families Podcast episode I was born

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Speaker 2: Ready today too? Myths to provoke you to think through,

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Speaker 2: to hopefully explode the first one, Can you be friends

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Speaker 2: with your kids? Missus Happy Families, Let's just dive straight

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Speaker 2: into it. Don't worry about pleasantries. Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 2: you've got something on your lip just here.

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Speaker 3: You're a punk. Nobody can see that. Why are you

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Speaker 3: saying you've got something in your teeth? Just in case

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Speaker 3: everybody else wanted to know that?

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Speaker 2: That's so funny? Can you be friends with your kids?

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Speaker 2: With your husbands? Should you be friends with your kids?

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Speaker 3: I think that it depends on their age.

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Speaker 2: Right, Okay, I think.

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Speaker 3: That when your children are young, they need the safety

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Speaker 3: and security that comes from having a big person take

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Speaker 3: control of the situation.

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Speaker 2: Someone authoritative, someone that they can rely on, and the

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Speaker 2: relationship is definitely going to be I mean, it's relatively unequal.

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Speaker 2: The older they get, the more it equals out.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's right. But once our children become adults and

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Speaker 3: they're making their own decisions, then in some ways we

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Speaker 3: actually want to treat them as an equal right. We

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Speaker 3: want to give them the space and the autonomy that

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Speaker 3: they need to make the decisions, but recognize that just

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Speaker 3: like a friend, you're there to bounce ideas off, to

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Speaker 3: come and seek advice if they want, but not something

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Speaker 3: that you're going to shove down their throat like you

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Speaker 3: would have as.

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Speaker 2: A two year old. So we've got three adult kids.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel like you're friends with them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I do, and I love spending time with them.

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Speaker 3: And what I love most is the daily phone calls

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Speaker 3: to fill me in on how many vertebrae a horse

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Speaker 3: has because she's just come out of her class at

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Speaker 3: UNI and Madam in physiology and it's so excited to

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Speaker 3: tell me all of the things that she's learned. I

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Speaker 3: absolutely love that in the same breath that drives me

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Speaker 3: crazy because she wants to tell me every single detail

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Speaker 3: about every little thing that's going on in her world.

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Speaker 2: You're saying boundaries need to be enforced even in that friendship,

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Speaker 2: in that relationship.

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Speaker 3: But I just I love that she feels like I'm

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Speaker 3: a person that she can come to and share her

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Speaker 3: world with.

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Speaker 2: It's curious to me that we do want to be

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Speaker 2: friends with our kids. We want to be friendly towards

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Speaker 2: them and loving and compassionate all those things when they're little,

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Speaker 2: and we want that relationship to turn into a genuine,

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Speaker 2: reciprocal friendship as our kids enter adulthood. We've got a

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Speaker 2: fifteen year old. Would you say that you're friends with her?

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Speaker 3: No, I'm still her parent. Okay, I'm very friendly with her,

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Speaker 3: and we love spending time together and we will have conversations.

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Speaker 3: But she, at this point in her life, looks up

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Speaker 3: to me as an authoritative figure.

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Speaker 2: I would prefer an autonomy supportive figure. If you don't

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Speaker 2: want yes, what about this one? Then we want our

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Speaker 2: kids to be friends with us as they get older,

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Speaker 2: and some parents want them to be friends very young.

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Speaker 2: I would agree by the way, I'd say that the

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Speaker 2: stance that you've taken if we can be autonomy supportive,

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Speaker 2: which means we have a friendly, supportive relationship with our

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Speaker 2: children as they're growing and loving and all those good things,

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Speaker 2: and then as they get older and emerge into adulthood,

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Speaker 2: that's when the relationship really can shift into a friendly relationship,

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Speaker 2: a friend oriented relationship. Do you want to are you

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Speaker 2: friends with your parents? Like? When I think about this

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Speaker 2: and people often say, oh, We've got to be friends

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Speaker 2: with our kids, and I pause and think, are you

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Speaker 2: friends with your parents?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Do you want to be friends with your parents? Is

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Speaker 2: that a good thing? To be friends with your parents?

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Speaker 3: So what I call my parents my friends? Probably not.

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Speaker 3: I love and adore them, and I will go to

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Speaker 3: them from time to time for support and advice and counsel,

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Speaker 3: but I probably see them more at this point in

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Speaker 3: my life as.

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Speaker 2: A mentor figure.

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Speaker 3: I guess as somebody that I would go to from

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Speaker 3: time to time. We've lived very different lives and we

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Speaker 3: see the world very differently. There are some choices that

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Speaker 3: I've made, or we've made in our lives that a

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Speaker 3: counter to the way they see the world and view

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Speaker 3: the world. And so yeah, I think that because of

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Speaker 3: those life choices, it's kind of taken us in different

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Speaker 3: directions a little bit.

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Speaker 2: So friendships work best on shared values and shared life experience.

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Speaker 2: And as you become an adult and make your own

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Speaker 2: decisions and forward your own way, sometimes your choices may

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Speaker 2: be inconsistent with those that your parents have made or

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Speaker 2: would have made. If they've got expectations, that can really

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Speaker 2: drive a wedge, that can create challenges to overcome, and

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Speaker 2: it can shift the relationship. I also think it's worth

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Speaker 2: highlighting sometimes you might have parents, or sometimes you might

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Speaker 2: be a parent who is carrying a lot of baggage

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Speaker 2: dealing with unresolved trauma, depression, anxiety, all those kinds of

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Speaker 2: other mental health challenges, and that's going to impede the

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Speaker 2: quality of your relationship that you have, either with your

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Speaker 2: parents or with your kids, if we're looking at these

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Speaker 2: intergenerational relationships. But I like the use of the word

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Speaker 2: mentor because I was thinking, I mean, I love my parents.

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Speaker 2: I reckon I'm on pretty friendly terms with my parents.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'd say, oh, my dad's a

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Speaker 2: great mate, I mean, I love spending time with him.

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Speaker 2: But we're such different people. I'm probably actually closer friends

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Speaker 2: with my mum though i'm with my dad, although I

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Speaker 2: feel like my bond with my dad is deep and

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Speaker 2: strong and beautiful, and I'm certainly not downplaying or disparaging

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Speaker 2: that when I say it. But I'm thinking intergenerationally. I've

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Speaker 2: got friends, and I guess you might call them mentors,

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Speaker 2: people who are a generation older than you and I,

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Speaker 2: and I know you do too, where I feel like

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Speaker 2: we're great friends. So you can be friends with people

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Speaker 2: who are twenty thirty, forty years older, like properly friends.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think age comes into the equation. I

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Speaker 3: think that it really is about how each person views

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Speaker 3: the relationship. I have friendships, and I recognize and no,

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Speaker 3: based on conversations I've had with those friends, what we

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Speaker 3: get out of our relationship is very different personally.

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Speaker 2: So I like friends who are into day to day contact,

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Speaker 2: or not day to day, but regular contact. They'll send

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Speaker 2: a text and say, Hey, just checking in.

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Speaker 3: Wanted to say hi, missed you the other day when

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Speaker 3: we were down at the beach.

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Speaker 1: Yah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Oh we're doing this thing next weekend. Would

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Speaker 2: you like to come and join us as going to

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Speaker 2: be five or six of us and we're all going

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Speaker 2: to go and hang out.

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Speaker 3: So for me, those relationships are ones that are kind

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Speaker 3: of integrated into my day to day life. You know

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Speaker 3: that the kinds of relationships that they're just they're easy,

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Speaker 3: it's natural, and you just you're aware of what each

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Speaker 3: other is up to where you're at in life.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to say this, A friendship is a

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Speaker 2: relationship where you take pleasure in one another's company. And

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Speaker 2: the myth that we're not supposed to be friends with

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Speaker 2: our children needs to be busted, because I think we

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Speaker 2: really do want to take pleasure in one another's company.

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Speaker 2: We want to connect in deeper, meaningful ways, and while

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Speaker 2: the nature of that relationship shifts as our children develop.

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Speaker 2: I think that it's okay to be friends with your kids.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that you you don't step in with

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Speaker 2: that authoritative or autonomy, supportive role or presence when necessary.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you can be friends with your kids. Is

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Speaker 2: that resolved? Are we on the same page? Convince to me?

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Speaker 3: I think you were going there just.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm not friends with our kids. I love our kids.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think the one thing I will say about

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Speaker 3: choosing to be friends with your children, especially in those

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Speaker 3: younger formative years teenage years. And I've watched it with

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Speaker 3: lots of parents over the years. Is just how important

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Speaker 3: it is as the adult to not actually dump on

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Speaker 3: our kids.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so don't use your kids. And so there are

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Speaker 2: two fatal mistakes that I think parents make when they're

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Speaker 2: trying to be friends with their kids. Number One, they

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Speaker 2: become permissive and let the kids do whatever they want.

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Speaker 2: They supply the alcohol or other drugs, and you know,

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Speaker 2: they let them party. Or number two, they use their

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Speaker 2: kids as a friend slash therapist, and they share things

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Speaker 2: that are just their adult things and they're sharing them

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Speaker 2: with kids. And that's again why there's always going to

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Speaker 2: be a slight difference in the parent child relationship. Even

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Speaker 2: let's say you're sixty and your kids are thirty five

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Speaker 2: or forty, whatever it is, you're still not going to

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Speaker 2: use them as a therapist. If there's some stuff going

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Speaker 2: on where you just don't involve your kids because it's

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Speaker 2: family and relationships complicated. But you can still be friends,

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Speaker 2: You can still take pleasure in another's company, you can

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Speaker 2: still have day to day interaction and love finding out

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Speaker 2: about their lives, and that is what a healthy friendship

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Speaker 2: is all about, at least in a family context. After break,

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Speaker 2: our second myth for this week of parenting myths exploded

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Speaker 2: on The Happy Family's podcast. Can you tell whether someone's

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Speaker 2: a good parent by how weather kids turn out? Between

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Speaker 2: fifteen and twenty percent of teens have anxiety. Anxiety is

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Speaker 2: one of the leading causes of mental illness in our children,

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Speaker 2: and as parents, we want to know where is it

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Speaker 2: coming from? Can we stop it? And how do we

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Speaker 2: help our children just feel better? Start by learning how

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Speaker 2: to recognize anxiety in your child, how to respond, and

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Speaker 2: how to give them hope and the anxiety in your child.

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Speaker 2: Webinar can help. It's available at Happy families dot com

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Speaker 2: dot a U.

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Speaker 3: It's The Happy Family's podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now And I'm interested

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Speaker 3: where you're going to go with this, Doctor Coulson. Can

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Speaker 3: you tell a good parent by how good their kids are?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And no? Wow? Yeah. The reason these myths exist

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Speaker 2: is because there's a kernel of truth. There's just that

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Speaker 2: little bit that stands out and you go, I can

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Speaker 2: think of so many examples where that's right, but all

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Speaker 2: is it always right? And that's why we need to

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Speaker 2: have this conversation. You and I both know many, many,

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Speaker 2: many kids that have been raised in homes where parents

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Speaker 2: have been supportive and generous and compassionate and involved and structured,

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Speaker 2: and they've ticked all the boxes, and they've had kids

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Speaker 2: who frankly, have been really, really, really challenging. But then

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Speaker 2: those kids, how do they grow up? Do they grow

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Speaker 2: up to be challenging or like results take time to measure,

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Speaker 2: And we also know plenty of parents who have been permissive,

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Speaker 2: even neglectful, plenty of parents who have not fulfilled their

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Speaker 2: parenting responsibilities, and quite often their kids follow what the

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Speaker 2: data suggests and end up having all sorts of really

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Speaker 2: big challenges. But they have some kids that buck the

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Speaker 2: trend in spite of all of the very worst parenting

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Speaker 2: in the world. So I just think it's one of

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Speaker 2: those things, Kylie, where you can't judge a parent by

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Speaker 2: their children, and you can't judge a child by their parents,

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Speaker 2: although there's usually a handful of indicators to give us

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Speaker 2: some reasonable suggestions that things will go one way or another.

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Speaker 3: Over the years, I've actually I've watched some parents and

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Speaker 3: you know, who've had for all intents and purposes, picture

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Speaker 3: perfect children, yep. Who As time has gone on, children

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Speaker 3: have completely bucked the system because in order to get

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Speaker 3: those picture perfect children, there's been a high level of

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Speaker 3: control in the relationship, and so children get to a

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Speaker 3: certain point where they kind of realize they don't.

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Speaker 2: Need to they push back the rebel. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: like what you said. Results take time to measure, and

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Speaker 2: this is the critical thing when we're talking about a

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Speaker 2: good parent or a good kid, when at what point

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Speaker 2: If they're twelve but they're under the thumb, of course

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Speaker 2: they're going to be good and the parents are going

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Speaker 2: to look like their picture perfect But if they're eighteen

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Speaker 2: and now they're rebelling, does that mean that they're bad

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Speaker 2: kids or does that mean that they were bad parents.

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Speaker 2: I just think there's so many factors at play here.

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Speaker 3: When I was growing up, it was very much a

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Speaker 3: societal I guess belief that children were to be seen

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Speaker 3: and not heard. And having raised our children very differently, children.

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Speaker 2: Are noisy, had are always heard and seen.

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Speaker 3: And have opinions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I love bringing them into the conversation as well.

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Speaker 2: When we've got friends over around the dining table, bring

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Speaker 2: the kids in ask the kids what they think. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's fun.

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Speaker 3: I absolutely love that our children feel like they have

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Speaker 3: the capacity to share their voice. But at times, number one,

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Speaker 3: it can be extremely grating, and number two, it can

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Speaker 3: be very embarrassing when you're out and about and your

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Speaker 3: child decides to just say it how it is in

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Speaker 3: front of someone who's a complete stranger or even a friend.

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Speaker 2: But kids are irrational and logical. Everyone knows that, right.

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Speaker 2: You hope so bad, but they don't. But they don't,

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Speaker 2: and then you get judged as beeble that's.

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Speaker 3: Right, And then all of a sudden, I'm a bad

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Speaker 3: parent because how dare I let my children speak like that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't you teach your children in any manners.

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Speaker 3: I saw this post the other day and I wish

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Speaker 3: I had taken a picture of it because it was brilliant.

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Speaker 3: It was just acknowledging that all of these traits that

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Speaker 3: we see in children and see them as being, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of classed as naughty or disobedient or because they

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Speaker 3: go against the grain. In adults, we would call them

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Speaker 3: innovative and creative.

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Speaker 2: And your principled rebels, Yes, but it's a child.

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Speaker 3: You're just annoying that's right, and so I love that.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've kind of created this space for our

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Speaker 3: children where they feel they can talk, but at times

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Speaker 3: it can be really challenging as a parent to navigate

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Speaker 3: that because there's a level of immaturity and a reverence

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Speaker 3: that comes with this unlearned skill.

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Speaker 2: Kylie, I think there's one other area that we could

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Speaker 2: talk about here as well, and that is issues to

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Speaker 2: do with well being, mental health, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: So I think that I can say without oversharing that

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Speaker 2: we have one child who has struggled with anxiety issues

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Speaker 2: throughout her entire life. Neither you nor I are anxious.

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Speaker 2: We've raised our children in a home where we've focused

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Speaker 2: on well being principles, we focus on faith, we focus

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Speaker 2: on a whole lot of other things that are going

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Speaker 2: to be good, healthy and beneficial for our children. And

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Speaker 2: it seems that no matter what we've done, no matter

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Speaker 2: how many conversations, no matter how many exercises, no matter

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Speaker 2: how many interventions, no matter how many whatever, no matter

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Speaker 2: how much love, that issue still exists. And there are

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Speaker 2: families with all kinds of things that are going on

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Speaker 2: with their children that frankly have little or nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with parenting, but the children exhibit challenging behaviors or

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Speaker 2: experience some delays or difficulties, and it's so easy for

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Speaker 2: parents to be judged by how their kids are turning out.

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Speaker 3: Well to ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it's all in the moment. It's in

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Speaker 2: the moment. I think, if we can wrap it up,

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Speaker 2: this myth, it needs to be exploded and we need

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Speaker 2: to really acknowledge that while there are a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of things that parents can do that are predictive, that

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Speaker 2: is that lead in a certain direction, ultimately our children,

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Speaker 2: as they grow will make their own choices. They have

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Speaker 2: what you and I would call agency, the capacity to

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Speaker 2: choose for yourself. And because they've got that capacity to

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Speaker 2: choose for themselves, they're going to do things counter to

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Speaker 2: all of our teaching and all of our ideas if

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Speaker 2: we're getting it right, or they might see what we're

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Speaker 2: doing and we're getting it all wrong, and they may

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Speaker 2: choose otherwise because they don't want to go down that path,

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Speaker 2: and there is nothing that we can do about it

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Speaker 2: one way or the other. They are their own people,

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Speaker 2: and therefore, you can't judge yourself as a parent based

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Speaker 2: on how your kids turn.

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Speaker 3: Out or other parents, or oh thank.

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Speaker 2: You so much. I look at my parents, and I

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Speaker 2: look at the way me and my five siblings have

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Speaker 2: turned out. There's me, twin girls, my brother and twin girls,

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Speaker 2: and we live such.

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Speaker 3: Diverse, literally six diverse.

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Speaker 2: And varied lives. We've got the artists. Who's a professional dancer.

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Speaker 2: We've got the marketing entrepreneur, guru, photographer guy. We've got

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Speaker 2: somebody who's working in a hospital, somebody who is dealing

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Speaker 2: with chronic lifelong mental health issues, and somebody who is

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Speaker 2: a mum. We've all just gone in such different directions.

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Speaker 2: And depending on how you measure success and a good

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Speaker 2: life and all that kind of thing, you could judge

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Speaker 2: my parents in so many different ways. But you know

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Speaker 2: how I judge my parents. I just look at how

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Speaker 2: hard they work. I look at how much they loved us,

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Speaker 2: and I acknowledge that they did the absolute very best

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Speaker 2: that they could, and how we turned out has such

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Speaker 2: limited relevance to what they did his parents.

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Speaker 3: I love that with Michelle Mith busted.

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Speaker 2: Okay, last coment, because we've got to wrap it up.

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Speaker 2: That times up.

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Speaker 3: Well, Michelle Mitchell just posted something the other day and

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Speaker 3: I thought it was just a nice little ray of hope,

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Speaker 3: she said, good news, A little backchat, rejection of your ideas,

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Speaker 3: novelty seeking and risk taking tells us they are developmentally

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Speaker 3: on track.

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Speaker 2: Olch. If you're not following Michelle Mitchell, jump onto her

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Speaker 2: Facebook page. She's great value and has all sorts of

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Speaker 2: excellent insights. We hope that we've busted those myths for you. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's okay to be friends with your kids, just don't

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Speaker 2: be over permissive and support them in unhealthy behaviors because

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Speaker 2: good friends don't do that, whether it's your kids or

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Speaker 2: someone else. And don't use them as your therapist because,

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Speaker 2: let's be honest, good friends don't do that either. And

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Speaker 2: you can't tell how good a parent is by how

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Speaker 2: the kids are turning out. Sometimes it's just a lottery.

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Speaker 2: Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: Craig Bribs is our executive producer. Hey tomorrow on the podcast. Well, actually,

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Speaker 2: a couple of months ago, we had a chat with

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Speaker 2: James Anderson who talked to us about growth mindset stuff,

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Speaker 2: and we had an incredible conversation. We got so much

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Speaker 2: positive feedback from that podcast. He's back tomorrow I'm so

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Speaker 2: excited to hear James Anderson tomorrow talking about more myths

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Speaker 2: to do with how our brains work and what we

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Speaker 2: can do to help our kids to work through the

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Speaker 2: hard stuff. And then Kylie, we're back again on Thursday

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Speaker 2: with a couple more myths to bust on the Happy

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Speaker 2: Families Podcast