1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Banjelung Calgoutin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Tuesday, 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: the twentieth of June. I'm sam, i'm zara. Today's World 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: Refugee Day, which is an international date set by the 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: United Nations to celebrate the strength and resilience of people 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: who've been forced to flee their homes because of conflict 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 2: or persecution. In today's deep dive, we'll hear from South 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 2: Sudanese writer and researcher A Kusch call af. 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 3: That trauma, why are doing civil war? And in rouvit 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 3: UCMs migrates with the individual that are still in Australia 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 3: now so drama inform care looked at the perpetrator are 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: someone who needs a much more holistic approach. 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: Before that, a big day in the Senate yesterday's. 19 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 4: Are it was the legislation to trigger a referendum on 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 4: the Indigenous Voice to Parliament, passed yesterday on Monday. The 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 4: referendum will now officially take place sometime between October and 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 4: December of this year. And just a quick reminder if 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 4: you need a refresher on how referendums work. In order 24 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 4: for it to succeed, the referendum needs to pass with 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 4: support from a majority of voters across Australia, as well 26 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 4: as the majority of voters in at least four out 27 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 4: of six states. 28 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: It's been a month to forget for PwC. It confirmed 29 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: yesterday it's been affected by a global cyber attack incident. 30 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: The attack on the third party data transfer platform used 31 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: by PwC has impacted hundreds of organizations and has affected 32 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: what it described as a limited number of its clients. 33 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 4: Climate protesters blocked ports in three Australian cities on Monday. 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 4: Testers from Blockade Australia disrupted operations at ports in Melbourne, 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 4: Brisbane and Newcastle as part of ongoing efforts to bring 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 4: attention to climate action. New South Wales Premier Chris Mins 37 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 4: condemned the protests, telling Sydney radio they created quote dangerous situations. 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: And today's good news. A Queensland woman has won one 39 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: of the most presidious science awards in the world. Distinguished 40 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: Professor Lillia Morawska won the twenty twenty three four Women 41 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: in Science Award for her work in the field of 42 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: air pollution, saying she hoped it would inspire more women 43 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 2: to pursue scientific careers. She is currently a professor at 44 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: the Queensland University of Technology. 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 4: Sam As we heard up top it's World Refugee Day today, 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 4: So tell me who we're going to hear from. 47 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to play you a conversation I had 48 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: with Melbourne based writer and researcher Akuch call Af. Akuch 49 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: has had an incredible life. Her family fled South Sudan 50 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: during the Civil War in nineteen ninety six when she 51 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: was five, and then they spent nine years in a 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: remote refugee camp in Kenya, and then in two thousand 53 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: and five her and her family received a humanitarian visa 54 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: to come to Australia. But of course once they got 55 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 2: to Australia, there was a whole new set of challenges 56 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: for them to navigate as refugees. Fast forward almost twenty 57 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: years and Akuch is now a graduate researcher in crime, 58 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: justice and legal studies. And she's recently published an incredible 59 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: memoir called Unknown and this is all about her experiences 60 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: living as a refugee, first in Kenya and then settling 61 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: in Australia. And what's remarkable about this account is the 62 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: way it deals with violence, trauma, and racism all while 63 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: trying to settle into a new environment here in Australia. 64 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: Here's that chat, Akush, Thank you so much for joining 65 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: us on the podcast this morning. 66 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 3: It's had to be here. Thanks for having me. 67 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: I'd love to dive into your journey and some of 68 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: the experiences you deal with in the book, but first 69 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about this idea of trauma 70 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 2: informed violence and trauma informed care. Can you break down 71 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: for me what that actually means. 72 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 3: Trauma informed violent is a violent that manifests or that 73 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 3: is perpetrated based on personal triggers of the trauma the 74 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 3: person or the perpetrator has experienced in the past. And 75 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 3: that could be childhood trauma, it could be trauma acquired 76 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: during their adults life. My family and I and majority 77 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: of the South Sudanese that settles in Australia come from 78 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 3: either South Sudan or neighboring countries from South Sudan and 79 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 3: the reason why the majority of the miscape was because 80 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 3: of the civil war. So that trauma acquired during civil 81 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: war and ruvigcms migrates with the individual that are still 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: in Australia now and you can see that it can 83 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 3: manifest in federation of family, violent or youth offending or 84 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: other social behavioral issues that are really informed by the 85 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 3: person past experiences. 86 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: So what would an example of trauma based care look 87 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 2: like for a refugee arriving in Australia. 88 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 3: In terms of addressing perpetrators, trauma inform care usually tends 89 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: to take a non punitive approach. So instead of addressing 90 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: perpetrators as violent criminal that deserve to be sent to 91 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 3: prison and throw the key away, trauma inform care looked 92 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 3: at the perpetrator as someone who needs a much more 93 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 3: wrap around support around mental health emotional health. So it 94 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 3: takes a much more holistic approach to address that individual, 95 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 3: which can potentially lead to reduction in offending, whereas non 96 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: trauma form care would be a very punitive approach you 97 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: arrest someone, you go to God and you get a 98 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 3: sentence and you get a punishment. 99 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 2: So it must really frustrate you when you hear politicians 100 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 2: talking about being tough on crime. Do you think that 101 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: a trauma based approach to less punitive measures is a 102 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: hard sell for the community. Is that why it's not 103 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: being adapted? 104 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 3: I think when we talk about unitive approach or tough 105 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 3: on crimes, yeah, it tends to be a very uniform, 106 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: blanket approach by the politician. So what does that do 107 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 3: for migrant and refugee that comes from a very traumatic background. 108 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 3: It's not that they're choosing to be violent, but because 109 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: of their experiences are informing some of their behavior. Everyone 110 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 3: experiences are not the same, even those who are born 111 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 3: in Australia. Like if you look at Indigenous First Nation 112 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: communities and the Anglo white Australian communities, their experiences are different, 113 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: but they're all Australian. So when you say tough on 114 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: crime and we need to come up with policies that 115 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 3: really apply a one site fit all approach, I become 116 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 3: really relaxed and to buy into that kind of politic. 117 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: So in your experience, you get to Australia with your 118 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: family as a refugee. What could have been different for 119 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: your family if you did have the support of a 120 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: trauma informed care system at your disposal. 121 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 3: Everything very simple, anta everything from settling into the neighborhood, school, 122 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 3: you know, just everyday life, because I think when when 123 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 3: we arrived, everything was a barrier. Language was a barrier, 124 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: employment was a barrier, fitting in at school. There's a 125 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: lot of challenges there fitting in within our neighborhood and 126 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: within our community. There was you know, quite number of 127 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 3: resistant around. You know those are on us in terms 128 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: of welcoming refugee and that could have been from the 129 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 3: fear of unknown, Like you know, when someone lives down 130 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: next door and you know you've never seen someone look 131 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: like them before. It's a normal human reaction to turn 132 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 3: to hold back. But I think that trauma inform care 133 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: would really address some of their emotional mental health challenges 134 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 3: that we migrated with, as well as navigating through all 135 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 3: the settlement process in a new country. 136 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: You're a remarkable leader in your community. You have helped 137 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: your family and community members a lot in terms of 138 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 2: their encounters with the law. For you, what do those 139 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: experiences look like? 140 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: Those experiences are of lifting but also heartbreaking at the 141 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 3: same time. I've lifting in a sense that I have 142 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: the opportunity and the training to help those that needs 143 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: the help within my capacity, and I drive joy from 144 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 3: doing that. It's also sad because I do yearn for 145 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: a violent free community and violent free society, and that 146 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: could be difficult when you know every year the rates 147 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 3: of family violence either the same as the previous years 148 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 3: or they increase. In that they're never increasing. It really, 149 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 3: you know, makes you wonder, what can you do more 150 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 3: to make sure that you add to the you know, 151 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: the good and the vision of violent free society that 152 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 3: we're trying to achieve. 153 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 2: A coach, I'd like to now turn to the positives, 154 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: and I'd like to turn to your role as a 155 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: leader and embodying the celebration of multicultural Australia. And you 156 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: talk a lot in your book about how you want 157 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 2: to celebrate South Sudanese history and culture and you want 158 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: to contribute to the greater good in your professional life 159 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: but also in your personal life and in your community. 160 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: What are the positive things you think we should know 161 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: about the South Sudanese community in Australia and your history 162 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: and culture. 163 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 5: That's a massive question and I feel really is hesitant 164 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 5: to answer it because I think if some of the 165 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 5: aunties go and listen to this, they might be wanting 166 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 5: to have their own perspective. 167 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: But I think South Sudanese culture is very beautiful. It's 168 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: a very communal society. They love celebration, they love celebrating 169 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: families and lineages and together as working through challenges together. 170 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: It's a very communal society, which is a huge benefit. 171 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: I would say it's a very very resilient community. If 172 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: you look at the history of what Sudanese have been 173 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: through from all the civil laws to you know, to 174 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: all the natural disasters, and then a lot of them 175 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: are still here and doing so many great stuff to 176 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: contribute to the Australian society. Some of us be here 177 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: for like twenty years and less, and they've been so 178 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 3: much great achievement within the community in such a small 179 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 3: short round of time. 180 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 2: Because I think it is without question that I can 181 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: say that you have made Australia a better place to be. 182 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 2: We're very lucky to have the South Sudanese community as 183 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 2: part of our fabric, So thank you for what you do. 184 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 2: Every day when you rock up to work, it's. 185 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 3: A really pleasure to be here. I think there are 186 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 3: so many privileges that I have had compared to if 187 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 3: I was stealing a GM mosuda a then costaler every day, 188 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: or allowing me to be here, especially the first session. 189 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 3: People allow me into their land and you know, make 190 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 3: my life and my family's life meaningful. 191 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us my pleasure. 192 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us today on the Daily OZ. If 193 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 4: you learned something from this episode, don't forget to hit 194 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 4: subscribe so there's a TDA episode waiting for you each 195 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 4: weekday morning. We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then, 196 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 4: have a fabulous day.