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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers now.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us on the Happy

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Speaker 3: Families Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is doctor Justin Coulson.

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Speaker 3: I'm here with my wife and mum to our six kids,

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Speaker 3: oh and grandma to our one grand baby. Kylie, today

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Speaker 3: is a big kids episode if you're a parent of

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Speaker 3: kids who are at the end of school or near

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Speaker 3: the end of school. Queensland's schoolies has already begun. I

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Speaker 3: think that new South Wales school leaders arrive on the

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Speaker 3: Gold Coast next week, so today we thought we would

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Speaker 3: have the conversation about the discussions you really want to

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Speaker 3: be having with your kids before school is mind you,

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Speaker 3: A lot of these discussions need to start a lot

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Speaker 3: earlier than schoolies and school departure, so if you have

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Speaker 3: younger kids, probably worth joining in for the discussion. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: before we kick off, Kylie, quick question few I think

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Speaker 3: I know the answer to this. We have been married

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Speaker 3: for nearly twenty six years. You didn't come from a

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Speaker 3: family that would have been pro schoolies. What makes you

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Speaker 3: say that. I'm not going to say anything about my

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Speaker 3: mother in law on the podcast I'm just saying I

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Speaker 3: don't think that you were the kind of kid who

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Speaker 3: would have been allowed to go to schoolies.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll just let you know that I probably had

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Speaker 2: a better school is than most people did.

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Speaker 1: So did you go to the Gold Coast?

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Speaker 2: Then? I did not go to the Gold Coast.

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Speaker 3: I was sure I would have heard that story.

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Speaker 2: My parents were adamant I would not be doining of

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Speaker 2: my friends down on the Gold Coast. And to be honest,

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Speaker 2: it's probably not. I don't remember with great clarity, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think I actually really wanted to go. Wasn't

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Speaker 2: It wasn't my scene. I wasn't a party girl by

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Speaker 2: any stretch.

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Speaker 1: So how did you have a better schooliest?

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Speaker 2: My mum is from New Zealand and so a lot

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Speaker 2: of my extended family were over there, and I loved

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Speaker 2: growing up in New Zealand as a child, but we

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Speaker 2: had not been back for a long time. So I

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Speaker 2: asked my parents whether I could go and stay with

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Speaker 2: my grandparents and my aunties and uncles and have an

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Speaker 2: extended holiday over there. So I went for six weeks. Wow,

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Speaker 2: six weeks that is a heck of a school and

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Speaker 2: I pretty much did the whole North Island with my

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Speaker 2: uncles and Auntie's in tow and I asked my best

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Speaker 2: friend from high school to join me for two of

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Speaker 2: those weeks. So we just had an absolute ball and

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Speaker 2: it was a really, really great trip.

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Speaker 3: I love the creativity around that. Before you asked me,

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Speaker 3: ask me?

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Speaker 1: Ask me to school is?

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Speaker 3: I think that it's worth highlighting as a parent, it's

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Speaker 3: perfectly acceptable to say no. Like so many parents that

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Speaker 3: I speak to say, oh, the kids going to school is.

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Speaker 1: I don't want them to go to school. It's a

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Speaker 1: terrible idea. I think they're going to get in so

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Speaker 1: much trouble. But they're seventeen or their eighteen, and I

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Speaker 1: can't really stop them.

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Speaker 3: And my answer to that is, well, actually you can.

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Speaker 3: You can say no, or you can say I don't

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Speaker 3: want you to go, and you can be creative in

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Speaker 3: the way that you do it, like if you.

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Speaker 2: I was fair to say, I actually think it's not

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Speaker 2: so much about saying no. Give them a.

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Speaker 3: Better yes, That's what I was going to say. If

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Speaker 3: you can be better, yes, be creative in the alternatives

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Speaker 3: that you suggest for them. They can probably turn their

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Speaker 3: end of year right of passage and of year twelve

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Speaker 3: right of passage into something far healthier. I know we've

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Speaker 3: gone way off the script of what we were going

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Speaker 3: to talk about, but I just thought it's worth throwing

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Speaker 3: that insane. As parents, you can't give them a better Yes,

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Speaker 3: they don't have to go to schoolies. Ask me, ask me,

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Speaker 3: ask me, did you go to school is?

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Speaker 1: No, you didn't.

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Speaker 3: I had no interest in it, none whatso, But I'll

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Speaker 3: tell you why I didn't go to schoolies. I think

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Speaker 3: because I didn't really have any friends in high school.

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Speaker 3: I had a very very challenging time at school. I

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Speaker 3: had being there, and my relationships with the people that

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Speaker 3: I attended school with were just abysmal as a general rule.

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Speaker 3: And so I know that a lot of them went

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Speaker 3: off to schoolies, but I had no interest in it

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Speaker 3: because I didn't have anyone to go with. I think

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Speaker 3: if I had good friends, I probably would have gone.

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Speaker 2: But what about your other mates?

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Speaker 3: We went surfing. We just stayed local and we went surfing.

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Speaker 3: That was kind of all that mattered to us. So

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Speaker 3: let's talk about why kids are going to school is

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Speaker 3: the answer.

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Speaker 2: Is it's a rite of passage. I think they feel like,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're able to let their hair down, be

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Speaker 2: an adult, make adult decisions, and graduating high school. It's

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Speaker 2: a big deal for them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to add because all their friends are

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Speaker 3: doing it, and if their friends aren't doing it, then

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Speaker 3: they're going to have no interest in going. But it

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Speaker 3: is part of that whole right of passage thing.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 3: Also, let's be realistic about it. It's really appealing, it's

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Speaker 3: really attractive. There are so many other kids there who

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Speaker 3: are just like you, same age, and I mean, I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to lie. As a guy, you know that

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Speaker 3: there's going to be so many girls there, and as

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Speaker 3: a girl, you know there's going to be so many

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Speaker 3: guys there. In short, there's going to be somebody there

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Speaker 3: for pretty much everybody. But it's not just amazing because

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Speaker 3: there's freedom. And let's be honest, a lot of kids

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Speaker 3: are there because they know that they can do a

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Speaker 3: whole lot of things on the Gold Coast that they

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Speaker 3: can't do at home, and they can do them with

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Speaker 3: wild abandon there's no accountability or such limited accountability. But

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Speaker 3: it's also terrifying because you've got alcohol and the drugs

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Speaker 3: and you can do what you want, and there are

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Speaker 3: fights and there is behavior that is not in our

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Speaker 3: children's best interests. It's not necessarily going to be safe behavior.

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Speaker 3: Yes there are activities, Yes it's well organized. Yes the

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Speaker 3: police are there, but that's only if you're participating that way.

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Speaker 3: And this is the thing, Kylie. Kids want to do stuff,

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Speaker 3: they want to do stuff, especially if their friends are there.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's that whole notion of fomo, right, Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: whole idea of the fear of missing out on what

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Speaker 2: everybody else is doing. That plays a huge part for

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Speaker 2: our teenagers.

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Speaker 3: One thing that's really fascinating to me though, when it

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Speaker 3: comes to kids doing things that aren't safe. Research shows

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Speaker 3: that the kids who engage in the most sensation seeking behavior,

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Speaker 3: if they're going to do one thing that's dangerous, then

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Speaker 3: they're usually going to do more than one thing that's dangerous.

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Speaker 3: Like it's a personality trait, it's an attribute, you're the

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Speaker 3: kind of person who takes risks that risk taking. Sensation

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Speaker 3: seeking behavior is an integral part of what it is

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Speaker 3: to be you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you exactly.

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Speaker 3: And so what you usually find is that some kids

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Speaker 3: just aren't that interested in it. They might do something

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Speaker 3: sensation seeking now and then often duplicate their sensation seeking

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Speaker 3: friends and say Okay, yeah, I went and did it.

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Speaker 3: But if you've got a child who's into one thing,

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Speaker 3: good chance they're going to be into kind of everything,

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Speaker 3: or at least wanting to try just about everything. So

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Speaker 3: what we need to do, I think, is recognize that

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Speaker 3: a lot of kids want to be at school is

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Speaker 3: because they do recognize that it's going to be an

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Speaker 3: absolute who it's going to be a total blast, and

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Speaker 3: they're almost certainly going to enjoy an accountability free week.

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Speaker 3: Our job is to have conversations with them that keep

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Speaker 3: them safe. That's what we do as parents. So let's

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Speaker 3: talk about three conversations that we need to have with

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Speaker 3: our children, whether they're leaving school for good or just

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Speaker 3: taking a break and going on holidays, so that we

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Speaker 3: can feel assured that they know the stuff they need

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Speaker 3: to be safe.

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Speaker 2: Well, I love this first one, and I love the

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Speaker 2: way you've put it. You've said safe and healthy beats

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Speaker 2: right and wrong. What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 3: Kids don't like to be told what's right and wrong,

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Speaker 3: especially when they're in their late teens mid to late teens.

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Speaker 3: It's like, you can't tell me what's right and wrong.

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Speaker 3: I know what's right and wrong, or you can't tell

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Speaker 3: me something's good and bad, those morally laden words. Now,

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Speaker 3: let me be really clear. I believe in good and bad.

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Speaker 3: I believe in right and wrong. But when we talk

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Speaker 3: to our teenagers about right and wrong and good and bad,

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Speaker 3: give you a simple example. If you want to talk

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Speaker 3: to your kids about alcohol and other drugs and you

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Speaker 3: say that they are bad and it's wrong, there are

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Speaker 3: going to be a whole lot of them who are thinking, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I know what all of my friends have been

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Speaker 3: doing every Friday night. Maybe they've been joining them as

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Speaker 3: well at the parties or at the park or wherever.

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Speaker 2: They're just having a blast.

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Speaker 1: They're having a great time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so when you say it's bad, they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you reckon, it's bad because you're in your forties or

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Speaker 3: your fifties and you just don't know because you're past school.

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Speaker 3: And here we are trying to tell them that it's

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Speaker 3: a bad idea and that it's wrong and that they're

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Speaker 3: going to end up in trouble, and they're going yeah.

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Speaker 3: But my experience and the experience of my friends tells

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Speaker 3: me something completely different. When we talk about safe and

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Speaker 3: healthy behavior, though, it removes the moral element, and it's

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Speaker 3: really hard to argue that taking any kind of drug,

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Speaker 3: whether it's pot or whether it's something far stronger, whether

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Speaker 3: it's dropping tabs or taking cocaine, chroaming or just drinking

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of alcohol, you can't say that this

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Speaker 3: stuff is healthy. At no level is it healthy, And

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Speaker 3: at no level is it really arguable that you're going

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Speaker 3: to be safe because you lack the element of control

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Speaker 3: that's so important. So reframing the conversations away from good

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Speaker 3: and bad, right and wrong, removing the morality from it,

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Speaker 3: and just talking about safe, healthy conversations, where you could

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Speaker 3: add smart if you wanted safe, healthy and smart. Although

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Speaker 3: smart again has that element of judgment associated with it,

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Speaker 3: it just seems to move the needle on the conversations

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Speaker 3: and keep kids attentive and open to what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: One of the challenging things I've found with our kids

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Speaker 2: over the years is this notion of safety because they

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Speaker 2: think they're invincible. We can see what's up the road

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Speaker 2: based on our own personal experiences and a certain level

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Speaker 2: of maturity, but our kids don't see the dangers. So

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Speaker 2: having those kinds of conversations can still be a little

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Speaker 2: bit tricky.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is my ladder of life metaphor the

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Speaker 3: idea is, and we've said this to the kids many times.

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Speaker 1: Look, we've climbed forty.

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Speaker 3: Plus runs on the ladder of life, and the view

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Speaker 3: from where we are is pretty incredible. Right, we can

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Speaker 3: see a long way. Here's the thing for you. You're

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Speaker 3: fifteen or you're eighteen, and you've climbed all these rungs

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Speaker 3: now and you can see things that you could never

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Speaker 3: see before, and you are so excited and you feel.

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Speaker 1: Like you can see everything now.

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Speaker 3: You can see things so well because you're so high up.

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Speaker 3: Forgetting that, every year you climb another run and every

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Speaker 3: year you get to see that a little bit further.

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Speaker 3: You're at Run fifteen or you're at Run eighteen, you

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Speaker 3: can see what's on the ground a little better than me.

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Speaker 1: But I can.

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Speaker 3: See over the hills, I can see around the corners,

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Speaker 3: I can see through those shadows. Because I'm so far

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Speaker 3: up that ladder, I know what's coming your way. So

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Speaker 3: what I want to share with you is and then

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Speaker 3: we share with them what our concerns are when it

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Speaker 3: comes to safe and healthy behavior. This concerns me, what

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Speaker 3: have you seen what's been your experience, Like bringing them

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Speaker 3: in and getting them to share their experience or their

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Speaker 3: friends experiences, their insights and their reactions to what's going

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Speaker 3: on can make such a difference.

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Speaker 2: Well, Conversation number two is about understanding consent.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so content warning for those of you who are

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Speaker 3: listening with younger children. We are going to speak about

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Speaker 3: physical intimacy for just a minute or two. I've said

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Speaker 3: this so many times now and I know that you

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Speaker 3: agree with me. Consent is a really low bar. So

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Speaker 3: we need to step into a situation here where we're

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Speaker 3: going to make an assumption based on Australian Secondary school

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Speaker 3: statistics that a little over fifty percent of our year

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Speaker 3: twelve school leavers have engaged in strong sexual behavior. Sexual

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Speaker 3: intercourse usually is what those surveys measure. That's a pretty

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Speaker 3: high percentage. That means that we need to talk to

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Speaker 3: our kids about consent and they need to know one

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Speaker 3: thing more than any other, and that is if the

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Speaker 3: other person is not excited about it, then you shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be either. That's my one liner when it comes to

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Speaker 3: teaching kids about consent, because if they're not excited about it,

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Speaker 3: how they're going to feel about it in ten minutes time,

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Speaker 3: or in an hour's time, or tomorrow or next month,

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Speaker 3: or for the rest of their lives. If they're not

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Speaker 3: excited about it, you shouldn't be either. Just don't go there.

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Speaker 3: The kids need to understand that.

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Speaker 2: So we've had lots and lots of conversations about the

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Speaker 2: differences in development of the male brain and the female brain.

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Speaker 3: Which is around about two years on average. At the

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Speaker 3: age trip that we're talking about here, girls are about

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Speaker 3: two years more neurologically mature than our boys.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked about how often the male brain struggles

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Speaker 2: to break.

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Speaker 3: And when you say break, you mean like in a car,

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Speaker 3: slow things down? Yeah, okay, all right. For a second,

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Speaker 3: I think I was thinking, like break, what break the window,

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Speaker 3: break the wall, break for something?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, how to slowly?

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Speaker 3: So guys are generally speaking the accelerator in any kind

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Speaker 3: of sexual encounter, and girls tend to be the break.

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Speaker 3: It's a huge generalization, but on average, that's the way

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Speaker 3: that it tends to go.

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Speaker 2: And I know I'm going to be the unpopular one

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Speaker 2: in the room by having this conversation, But for so

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Speaker 2: many years now we have been teaching our kids about consent,

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Speaker 2: and we've also been teaching them about safe sexual behavior,

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Speaker 2: but we've stopped having conversations about not.

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Speaker 1: Engaging about absidence.

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Speaker 2: And when I engage in these convers stations and I

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Speaker 2: hear the kinds of things that take place, and unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: it seems by all accounts that boys are definitely the

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Speaker 2: accelerator in these kinds of situations. I'm a mum of girls,

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Speaker 2: and I want to do everything I can to keep

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Speaker 2: them safe, and the idea that I would tell them

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Speaker 2: every other option available and leave abstinence off the table

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Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to me. I recognize that kids are

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Speaker 2: going to experiment that kids want the curious, they want

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Speaker 2: to know what's going on, they want to know how

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Speaker 2: their bodies work, and all of those kinds of things.

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Speaker 2: But if I take that off the table, that I've

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Speaker 2: actually taken it out of their toolkit. I haven't given

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Speaker 2: them the whole picture. I haven't allowed them the ability

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Speaker 2: to make more conscious choices. And I think that I,

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Speaker 2: in some ways have belittled their capacity to make good

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Speaker 2: choices by suggesting that they're going to do it anyway,

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Speaker 2: so let's teach them how to do it safely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is really important.

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Speaker 3: Kids need to know that saying no is perfectly fine

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Speaker 3: and that it is not abnormal to be saying no

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Speaker 3: and to be abstaining, whether it's intimacy or in anything.

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Speaker 3: I don't like this movie, or I don't want to

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Speaker 3: go for that walk, or I'm not really interested in

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Speaker 3: that person, or I'm not interested in that alcohol, those drugs.

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Speaker 3: It's okay to say no, and putting that on the

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Speaker 3: table and having that discussion with the kids is really valuable.

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Speaker 3: It may prevent them, it may help them to make

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Speaker 3: their own decisions to avoid things that are not going

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Speaker 3: to be in their best interests.

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Speaker 2: The last conversation is probably the most important.

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Speaker 3: And it's the easiest one to talk about as well.

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Speaker 3: It's really simple. Your kids need to know that if

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Speaker 3: they're in strife, any strife, at any time, they can

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Speaker 3: call you, that you're safe to call, that you're not

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Speaker 3: going to get them in trouble, that you're not going

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Speaker 3: to read them the Riot Act, that you are going

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Speaker 3: to be there for them. You're not going to be

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Speaker 3: on their back, You're going to have their back full

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Speaker 3: stop at a story.

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Speaker 2: So if we recap three conversations, safe and healthy beats

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Speaker 2: being right and wrong. Ye, understanding consent and putting abstinence

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Speaker 2: on the table as an option for our kids. And

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Speaker 2: lastly for them to know no matter what, they can

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Speaker 2: call you because you've got their back.

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Speaker 1: Good luck.

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Speaker 3: If your kids are going to school is I am

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Speaker 3: sure they'll have a terrific time. I hope they have

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Speaker 3: a safe and healthy time as well. The Happy Families

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Speaker 3: podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 3: For more about making your family happier, please visit us

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Speaker 3: at happy families dot com dot a