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Speaker 1: Now you might recall we spoke to the Unions Unions

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Speaker 1: NT last week for an update on the enterprise bargaining

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Speaker 1: agreements for public servants, and the union claimed that negotiations

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Speaker 1: for NT firefighters have become hostile while police and correctional

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Speaker 1: officers are making headway with their EBAs. Now, firees have

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Speaker 1: been writing messages on trucks across the Northern Territory as

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Speaker 1: part of their protected industrial action, and union's ENDT secretary

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Speaker 1: Erina Early claims that they're now being investigated for potential

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Speaker 1: criminal behavior. If you miss that interview with her a

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Speaker 1: little bit later towards the end of last week, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to what she'd had to say.

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Speaker 2: They're quite upset because, you know, getting police officers to

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Speaker 2: come down one of their owns. They work closely together,

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Speaker 2: they're part of the try service. They're very upset that

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Speaker 2: their own chief fire officer and the Police Comission has

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Speaker 2: done this to them, to try and scare them and

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Speaker 2: threaten them to stop engaging in their protected industrial action.

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Speaker 1: So that was Erina Early from the Union on the

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Speaker 1: show towards the end of Life last week. Now joining

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Speaker 1: me in the studio is the chief fire Officer for

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory, Mark Spain, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Good morning listers.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me our firefighters being criminally investigated over writing

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Speaker 1: on the trucks.

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Speaker 3: No they're not, but I will put some clarification around that.

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Speaker 3: On a Saturday, I was informed by the cruise that

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Speaker 3: it was writing appearing on the appliance as fire trucks,

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Speaker 3: of which I ordered for it to be washed off,

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Speaker 3: and then they kept appearing so by the Wednesday. Although

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Speaker 3: they work under the protected action, I was personally of

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Speaker 3: the opinion that that didn't fit under the person protective action.

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Speaker 3: Now you got to remember these fire appliances are one

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Speaker 3: point one million dollars apiece. They're a community asset. My

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Speaker 3: Bronto is two point three million dollars apiece. And I

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Speaker 3: did call the police down on the eighth and they

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Speaker 3: came for a criminal damage investigation.

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Speaker 1: They at that did call the police.

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Speaker 3: I actually called the police. I'll make it very clear

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Speaker 3: the Commissioner was not involved in this process. I am

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Speaker 3: the head of the Fire service and I take full

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Speaker 3: responsibility for calling the police in on that. No one

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Speaker 3: is above the law, and it was my opinion at

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Speaker 3: that time that there was criminal damage potentially being done

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Speaker 3: to our community fire assets.

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Speaker 1: There will be people listening this morning thinking, wow, you've

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Speaker 1: called the police on your own firefighters.

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Speaker 3: It's not the first time I've done it, and I

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Speaker 3: won't be the last. The reason I'll do that is

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Speaker 3: once again I'll make it very clear firefighters are not

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Speaker 3: exempt from the law. We represent the community. We will

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Speaker 3: work for the community. We're here to serve and protect.

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Speaker 3: But if anything unto what that I believe is out,

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Speaker 3: I think it is my duty as the chief officer

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Speaker 3: to actually report it.

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Speaker 1: So union claims that they're allowed to protest in this

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Speaker 1: way as part of their protected industrial action, is that

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Speaker 1: not the case.

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Speaker 3: I had further conversation with the Commission of Public Employment

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Speaker 3: after a period of time. Her opinion and my opinion

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Speaker 3: is still are different because of the wording in that

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Speaker 3: protected action. I'm fully supportive for their protected action wearing

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Speaker 3: the T shirts, they're banners, attending marches to really get

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Speaker 3: their name out there to say, hey, look, we exist,

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Speaker 3: we deserve a pay rise, and I actually support that,

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Speaker 3: absolutely support that. But what they actually do is they

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Speaker 3: negotiate with OCPE and the units when it comes to

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Speaker 3: the Anti Fire Rescue Executive. We provide advice to OCP,

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Speaker 3: but we're not on the bargaining side of OCP or

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Speaker 3: the union.

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Speaker 1: Now, I mean, I know that you've said that you

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Speaker 1: are fully supportive of those pay negotiations, but you know,

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Speaker 1: some listening this morning, you're going to be thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: calling the police on your own members doesn't really demonstrate

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Speaker 1: that you are.

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Speaker 3: And they're wearing their T shirts. They've got a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of protected action there which are there to design

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Speaker 3: to disrupt the workplace, and that is to send a

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Speaker 3: message to government to say, hey, we're here, talk to

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Speaker 3: us and let's get on with business. But when it

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Speaker 3: comes to marking a one point one million dollar appliance

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Speaker 3: or a two point three million dollar appliance in that case,

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Speaker 3: when it was investigated by a police, they found it

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Speaker 3: was a it could wash off. It's good, But now

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Speaker 3: certain elements have now written in permanent marker and it

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Speaker 3: can't be washed off easily even with a heavy solvent

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Speaker 3: that's been used and that's been reported to be from workshops.

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Speaker 3: So now we are in a position where we don't

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Speaker 3: agree with what they doing with the permanent marker. The

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Speaker 3: messaging is going to be very clear. They want to

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Speaker 3: win the community over, they've got to make sure the

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Speaker 3: messaging is clear and they understand what it's all about.

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Speaker 1: So you don't have an issue with them writing on there.

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Speaker 1: If it's in market, that can be washed off. But

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Speaker 1: the fact that they're writing on this with permanent marker

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Speaker 1: is what you're upset about.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's two things about it. One is the authors

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Speaker 3: of them sometimes need to do a spell check or

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Speaker 3: they did really miss deliberately misspell it, because and that

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Speaker 3: will take away from the messaging because if the Joe

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Speaker 3: public sees this and says, well, hey, these blokes can't spell,

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Speaker 3: it takes away the message of what they're trying to

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Speaker 3: sell the government is, hey, we want to pay rise,

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Speaker 3: Hey we want better conditions, and let's get on with it.

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Speaker 3: So ask is that they do the spell checks and

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Speaker 3: move on for that. I do have a problem with

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Speaker 3: the writing on my appliances or the community appliances because

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Speaker 3: they have other methods for protected action. As I said,

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Speaker 3: I have a different opinion from the Commission of Public

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Speaker 3: Employment about protected action in relation to writing on the appliances.

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Speaker 1: Now, where are these negotiations at from your perspective, or

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Speaker 1: is it a situation here that because you're not involved,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't really know.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually the third party that comes in. I'll sit

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Speaker 3: in on the negotiations. OCP have got the guidelines from

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Speaker 3: the government, what their restrictions are and what their policy

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Speaker 3: is to when it comes to negotiations. Union put up

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Speaker 3: their logger claims and they work through it. What we

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Speaker 3: have to do. They're an all k and a responsibility.

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Speaker 3: So what I'm responsible for is the financial side of

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Speaker 3: the house. So we have to do our costings, our

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Speaker 3: facts and figures to meet within my finite budget and resourcing.

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Speaker 3: So there's a lot of there's a three way conversation

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Speaker 3: that goes on, and that's what we have to work through.

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Speaker 1: We've been told, or we are hearing, that there are

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Speaker 1: a law of local firefighters that are packing up and

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Speaker 1: moving into state and that they're going and doing their

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Speaker 1: fitness tests in other states. Is that something that you've

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Speaker 1: been told at this point.

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Speaker 3: I've heard it on the rumen mill. I haven't confirmed

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Speaker 3: it yet. However, I've also heard that I'm bringing up

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Speaker 3: the other fiber Gaze to say, hey, stop stealing our

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Speaker 3: fire fighters. That is not the case. I'm not allowed

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Speaker 3: to do that, nor would I want to do that.

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Speaker 3: Firefighters have their own lifestyles that they have to accommodate for.

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Speaker 3: There'll be a number of reasons why they want to

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Speaker 3: head off, but nothing has come through at the moment.

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Speaker 1: It does sound as though things are sort of getting

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Speaker 1: a little bit more hostile when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: negotiations at the moment with the fireies than what it's

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Speaker 1: maybe been with some of the other government departments or

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Speaker 1: some of the other forces.

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Speaker 3: Why do you reckon that is I'm probably going to

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Speaker 3: light up your text message you here, Katie. But at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, it's the too pronged approach

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Speaker 3: from Minight of workers. The first one is to the negotiation,

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Speaker 3: so they'll do their normal rallies and wear the T

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Speaker 3: shirts and protected actions to slow it to bring government

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Speaker 3: to listen. The other one is there are a couple

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Speaker 3: of elements within the union who want to separate the

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Speaker 3: executive from the floor. So those members want to actually

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Speaker 3: control the floor. So by doing that, this is what

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Speaker 3: will what they'll do to keep us separated from them.

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Speaker 3: We are all one unit. Now. This is the third

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Speaker 3: lengthy negotiation that's gone on this goes on for three

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Speaker 3: or four years and then we roll over to the

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Speaker 3: next one. So we've had about twelve years of conflict

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Speaker 3: within the fire service instead of getting on with normal

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Speaker 3: business now.

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Speaker 1: Someone has been in contact already this morning and just

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Speaker 1: now and said wondering what's the difference between the fieries

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Speaker 1: and the ambos writing on their appliances.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a Reena said, made mention of it the other

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Speaker 3: day that it was fair work commission, but there is

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Speaker 3: a case study in South Australia which is different legislation.

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Speaker 3: I'll have to point that out. But they were also

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Speaker 3: ordered to not write on it and not wear their

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Speaker 3: unit T shirts. We're far more grown up from that.

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Speaker 3: We want to get the message you crossing, so let's

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Speaker 3: work out a strategy that will get the CB over

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Speaker 3: and done with so we can get on the normal business.

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Speaker 1: All right, We are going to have to leave it there,

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Speaker 1: Chief Fire Officer Mark Spain always appreciate your time. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for coming in the studio this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie,