1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: There's that very simple one of like make it exciting, 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: don't give the word there's just often comes back to you. 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: The more kind of experience you have, or the more 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: cluttered your brain is, or the more business minded your 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: brain is, just getting back to that basic sense of like, 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: make it good, make it good, and make it mean something. 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: That's all we want as humans, from our stories and 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: from our product. 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: used by the world's most successful people to get so 11 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbat. 12 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy 13 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: in Ventium, and I'm obsessed with ways to optimize my 14 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: work date. My guest today is Glenn Dolman. Glenn is 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: one of Australia's most sought after screenwriters. He recently wrapped 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: on the second season of his supernatural series for Stan 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: called Bloom, which he created and executive produced. The first 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 2: season of Bloom was nominated for an Actor for Best 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: New Drama Series, and the second season kicks off in 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 2: April April nine. I believe. Glenn has also written for 21 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: a variety of different shows, including Britain's longest running crime drama, 22 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: The Bill, and he also wrote the highly acclaimed tallymovie Hawk, 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: which maybe you'll remember from a few years ago for 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: Network ten, about the controversial life of former Prime Minister 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: Bob Hook, which won the Augie Award for Best Original 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: Tellymovie and three AFI's as well. So I was very 27 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: excited to sit down with Glenn when we had this chat. 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: It was actually pre Corona and he was in the 29 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: final stages of finishing the edits for season two of Bloom. 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: So we cover a whole bunch of things in this episode. 31 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: That's something. One of the things I found interesting was 32 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: what goes on in the writer's room and Glenn's strategies 33 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: for building the optimal dynamic there. So on that note, 34 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: let's go to Glenn to hear about how he works. Glenn, 35 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: welcome to the show. 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me. 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 2: It's very nice to be sitting here with you. We've 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: known each other for quite some time, and at the moment, 39 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: the big project that you're working on is season two 40 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: of Bloom, right, yes, and so in this particular show, 41 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: you're what's called a show runner. And I'm not sure 42 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: how many listeners know exactly what a show runner does. 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: I thought I did. I thought a showrunner was simply 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: the person who created the idea and then they're kind of, 45 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: you know, maybe writing a few scripts and stuff and 46 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 2: then off maybe doing other things. But when we caught 47 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: up a few weeks ago, I learned that that is 48 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: completely incorrect. So can you tell me what does your 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: role as a show runner actually involve? 50 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: It means you're responsible for delivering the show. It's a 51 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: fairly new role in Australia and insid be doing it 52 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: for quite some time. And traditionally in Australia, writers or 53 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: even writers on a show get to a certain point 54 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: and then there's producers who aren't writers who take it 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: over from there. So a writer kind of being involved 56 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: in the production process was used to be pretty rare, 57 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: and then in the editing process extremely rare. So there's 58 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: been this new wave in the States of writers becoming 59 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: producers and then writers running shows, so being responsible for 60 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: the delivery of the show, and that's sort of as 61 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: an executive producer, who are also those key creatives who 62 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: start the show who know it's often their baby. They 63 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: come up with the idea and it really sort of 64 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: makes good business sense to train people up to do 65 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: both to the originator of a show, but also be 66 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: the business manager of that show and in a sense 67 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: who's kind of responsible for delivering it, because then you 68 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: make instinctively a whole lot of different kind of pragmatic 69 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: choices throughout the process. And also to keep that store 70 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: retailer voice going from beginning to end makes so much 71 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: more sense. 72 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: So I get this in theory, makes good sense in theory. 73 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: In practice, I go, what a crazy, crazy thing and 74 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: crazy expectation. Like you are asking someone who is a 75 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: creative by occupation what they are good at is writing 76 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: and creating ideas and putting that on the paper to 77 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: manage like a team of what fifty one hundred people. 78 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: It's like you're going from essentially like your own boss 79 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,679 Speaker 2: as a writer to being the CEO of one hundred 80 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: person company literally overnight and managing a multimillion dollar budget. 81 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: So I want to dig into the nitty gritty and 82 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: understand what are some of the strategies that you have 83 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: learned on the job that you have found work for you, Like, 84 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: I want to start with the creative side of the job, 85 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: because let's say for so it's a six episode season again, 86 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: is that right? Yeah? The and how long is the shoot? 87 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: Ignoring I guess pre and post production, how long are 88 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: you actually shooting for? 89 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: We have roughly I think it's seven and a half 90 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: eight days an episode, and then and then we post 91 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: production for two and a half months of post which 92 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: is very short amount of time to deliver the show. 93 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: And then the lead in from sort of pitching the 94 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: overview of the season to sort of a you know, 95 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: a few months there where you're fleshing out the show 96 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: before you get a team of writers together, and then 97 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: you're working with those riders for I think four or 98 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: five months or so before production begins, which is again 99 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: incredibly I mean, this was wow a short season. 100 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: So for six episodes, you're you're looking at about a 101 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: ten month process or something like that. Wow, that's that's crazy, 102 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 2: isn't it. What's let's maybe start at the beginning where 103 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: you've and this is obviously the second season, but perhaps 104 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: let's go back to the first season. How did the 105 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 2: idea come about? And I want to even think about 106 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: this more generally, because you've conceived like a large number 107 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: of shows, you know, whether that be for TV or 108 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 2: movies or movies for TV. What's that initial creative process, 109 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: like where are those concepts coming from? 110 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me because I'm still trying to harness 111 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: it and trying to be the most productive kind of 112 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: creative person. And so you know, I always schedule time 113 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: like a workday of Okay, now I'm generating ideas, but 114 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: often those those real the nuggets of something that will grow. 115 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: So for Bloom, for example, you know, happen in places 116 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: and times where you can't plan them, and they sort 117 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: of become like an itch that you need to scratch. 118 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's when I feel like I'm on 119 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: a good idea. Whether I am or not, it's completely subjective, 120 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: but just having the sense for me that it's inn 121 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 1: eache I need to scratch feels good and it feels 122 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: like like I'm onto something, whether that's you know, right 123 00:06:58,760 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: or wrong. 124 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 2: How did that happen? For do you remember Bloom? 125 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: I mean, and this was I think retrospective looking back. 126 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: It was around the time that the Queensland floods happened 127 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: several years ago, and there was horrifying kind of images 128 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: and I remember staying up late one night watching it 129 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: at that kind of tsunami of water just passed through, 130 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: and there was reporters who were at a retirement village 131 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: and they couldn't evacuate in time, and this reporter outside 132 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: sort of basically saying we'll check in the morning and like, 133 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: good luck, but there's you know, sixty patients here who 134 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: are in for a wild night. And I remember, think 135 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: that's just so bizarre in you know, today, in the 136 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: technology that we have, that you sort of couldn't evacuate 137 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: someone for what seems like a very slow moving when 138 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: it was a very fast moving flood, but it was 139 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: traveling down the length of the state as well, so 140 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: so that was sort of part of it. And then 141 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: there was a tragedy in Grantham, which was a small 142 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: town that lost twelve people in a very short amount 143 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: of time in this flood, and there was terrible stories 144 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: of that town, of parents having to make second decisions 145 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: about what familymits are going to save and the tragedy 146 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: of that town and really kind of stuck with me, 147 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: and that you can you don't have control over your life, 148 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: I think, was what's stuck. And I think it takes 149 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: those tragedies to suddenly go. You know, we think that 150 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: as humans that we can kind of control certain things, 151 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: that we have infinite years to do what we want 152 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: to do in life, or I haven't started that yet 153 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: but will next year. And that's something that I sort 154 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: of just feel personally, you know. But an act of 155 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: nature or an act of God or wherever you frame 156 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: it can happen in a moment, and that you can 157 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: lose your life or to your family apart in your 158 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: own home too, you know. So that's all those kind 159 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: of things just kept floating around in my brain, and 160 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: in fact, there was for Bloom, there was a childhood 161 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: story that I wrote about this little mystical plant that 162 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: inexplicably grows in the town that makes you fly. It 163 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: was like this the thing I wrote when I was 164 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: like eight or night. So I was sort of combining 165 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: that kind of whimsical, silly idea with this kind of 166 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: heavy idea of loss and regret that happens around a tragedy. 167 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,599 Speaker 1: And for Bloom it was actually I remember I was 168 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: staying with my parents visiting, and I was out walking 169 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: late at night with my app pod on, and those 170 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: elements just sort of aligned and kind of thought, wait, 171 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: what if this plant rejuvenates you to your youth to 172 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: allow you to have a second chance. But it's born 173 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: from a flood, like born from tragedy. It gives you 174 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: this hope and what does that mean? And to these people. 175 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: So that's sort of how it kind of came together. 176 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: And then obviously then you just do the hard work 177 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: of okay, fleshing it out, like making it a television show, 178 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: making it last for an episode and making it pitchable 179 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: and creating characters that have arcs and that kind of 180 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: functional side of storytelling before you then can reduce it 181 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: back to a very quick sentence to be able to 182 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: pitch it to someone. 183 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: Did you know that you were onto something when? When? 184 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: When you were following this line of thought and energy. 185 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: I guess, well, yeah, But then again, I often think 186 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm went to something and other people tell me I'm not. 187 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: So this was a rare, lucky occasion for me where 188 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: I felt like I was onto something. I felt like 189 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: it moved me, And I think that's that's always the 190 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: benchmark for me. Am I moved, and I continually move, 191 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: not just moved in the moment where you can then 192 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: the next morning and go, oh, that was nothing. But 193 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: when it's something that just sort of haunts you, or 194 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: that if you feel like you're just off the tip 195 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: of the iceberg on in terms of the idea, like, oh, 196 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: there's more there. I don't know what it is, but 197 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 1: I think there's more more to this, and I think 198 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: it could be beautiful and funny and moving, and I think 199 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: it will connect to people, and like it's connecting to me, 200 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: and and and then when I when I did pitch 201 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: the idea to Playmaker, to the to the executives there, 202 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: David Maher and David Taylor, they they responded straight away 203 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: to it and it kind of stuck with them. And 204 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: then I think I believe Stan was the first broadcast 205 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: so they went to resonated with them. So that's very 206 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: sort of fortunate kind of way of an idea of 207 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: taking life. 208 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 2: I want to move to the pre production stage when 209 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: you're hiring writers, which like, firstly, is that a weird 210 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: process because you're essentially putting together a writer's room who 211 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 2: will collaborate on the six episodes to bring your vision 212 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: to life? And are you writing as well? 213 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: Yeah? So I wrote as well. So yeah, in the 214 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: first season, I wrote four of the six, so about 215 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: a lot longer lead time to do that, or three 216 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: yea four of it, And then this season happened a 217 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: lot quicker. So I collected five other writers, four other writers, 218 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: I think, And then there's you know, you just want 219 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: some other great writer brains to help you plot, to 220 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: be in the room to bounce ideas off as well, 221 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: And so you sort of cast it like you cast 222 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: the show. 223 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 2: How are you selecting that? Are you just looking at 224 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: their previous work? Are they writers that you know personally? 225 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 2: What does that look like? 226 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes the writers I know personally, and other times you 227 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: ask the agents to submit. You read work, and you 228 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: meet people and you get a really great idea I 229 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: think when you meet certain writers, because as you know, 230 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: I think that's true of sort of all kind of 231 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: artistic people, you get a sense of who they are 232 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: by sort of talking to them as well as reading 233 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: their work. And but yeah, and then try and just 234 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: find people who work well together to represent the show 235 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: in a harmonious kind of way. 236 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,359 Speaker 2: How do you get that dynamic right in a writer's. 237 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: It's tricky, and you you just you know, you take 238 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: a bit of a punt. But then and then you 239 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: work out what works for the writer's room and go there. 240 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: But it was brilliant. I mean last season, this season 241 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: we had different writers and because I wanted different energy, 242 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 1: and I wanted different sort of voices and opinions, and 243 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: I want people to interrogate things in a different way, 244 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: and you want a sort of level of friction. You 245 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: don't want it to be easy. You don't want to 246 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: ruin that everyone just agrees with you, because there's no 247 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: point to that. 248 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: Because how do you create that that kind of an environment, 249 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: because I would imagine everyone wants to be polite at 250 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 2: first surely. 251 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: Well not really because yeah, but you're also paying them 252 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: for their opinions, So you don't want people to ever 253 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: really just be polite. You know, if someone's doing that, 254 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: that's not what you want. You want a level of 255 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: friction because you want to thrash out an idea. 256 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: So how do you build that? Because I feel like 257 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 2: there are a lot of companies out there that where 258 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: people are just too polite, and I've definitely had to 259 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: try to manage that and Inventium where we're a very polite, 260 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 2: happy bunch of people, and it really does take pushing 261 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: to get people to disagree with each other. So I 262 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: want to know, how do you manifest that in a 263 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: writer's room? What are you doing by nature of who 264 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: you're selecting, how you frame up the challenge of what 265 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: it means to be in a writer's room? How do 266 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: you create that? 267 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: Writers like myself, like experience right, tends to be very 268 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: opinionated because that's why they're writers. I think, so I 269 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: didn't have trouble flaming the arguments that they're fueling over. 270 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: They happen organically, and you want them too, because people 271 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: care and they have a perspective, or they understand a 272 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: particular character more than the other writer does, or they 273 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: think they do, and so you just sort of want that, 274 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: but you then run the room to make sure you 275 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: get it. So if you're often I think it's sort 276 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: of the reverse the arguments that have happened automatically, and 277 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: you try and just focus them a little bit. And 278 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: also you're aware of how much work you've got to do, 279 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: and I think for this season in so many shows, 280 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: you know you've got to type budget, limited time, and 281 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: those writers rooms are expensive because you're paying a lot 282 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: of people to brainstorm and focus and work, and so 283 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: you have to be really resourceful with that time. If 284 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: an idea is not working straight away, you have to 285 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: park it and go into something else. 286 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: So how do you do that? Like, what are some 287 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: of the strategies that you're using to manage a writer's 288 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: room and kept on track. 289 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: And you know, at the end of the day, you've 290 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: got to have something to pitch back to the production 291 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: company and network. It's it gives you a very different 292 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: sense of responsibility. So you're trying to be creative and 293 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: open and fun and free and silly and and and 294 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: the kind of stories that I like and storytelling that 295 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: I like is very emotional and it's very raw, and 296 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: so I want it to be really personal. I remember 297 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: Richard Curtis, who wrote for weddings and not him, and 298 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: he talked about writing as and he obviously he writes 299 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: comedy writing, but he writes relationship writing. That stage at 300 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: the end of a dinner party, when everyone's had a 301 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: few drinks and everyone's funny, that's the headspace you've got 302 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: to get into at eight am. You know, when you're 303 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: working in a room or not, what do you do that? 304 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: I mean, for me, it was like personal things that 305 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: I do if you're not there in the rooms, you know, 306 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: sort of start over sharing in a kind of weird 307 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: way of just sort of making people oh, okay, let's 308 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: just keep it vulnerable. Glenn's ritten on some personal thing 309 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: that happened to him, let's sort of open up. Because 310 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: sometimes the pressure of the end result to say that 311 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: real creative energy that you need, and you start to 312 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: just be a bit mechanical with how you plot or 313 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: just safe how you plot, and as much as you 314 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: can kind of break that down making the room feel 315 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: kind of safe and friendly. And at the same time, 316 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: it's it's tricky because tangents can be great and gold mines, 317 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: but most tangents are tangents and ted ends. So it's, 318 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: you know, just trying to learn about when you shut 319 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: off an idea and you move on and without deeply 320 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: offending someone too. 321 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: So how do you do that? 322 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: My mum's a primary school teacher. Have two things are 323 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: fun and fair, and I think I just have that 324 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: sense of trying to be fun but fair and firm. 325 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: It's the other one fun, fair and firm, and I 326 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: think that's sort of like running a room a little bit. 327 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: You need to be kind of firm to sort of 328 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: move things along. But the goal does come from being 329 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: open to inspired ideas and open to your own personally experience, 330 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: and that's what you need to manifest. 331 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 2: So like, how do you find that balance of going, okay, 332 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 2: we might go down sort of off in this segue, 333 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: down this rabbit hole here? How do you know? Is 334 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: it just instinct telling you yes, let's explore? Is it 335 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 2: time constraints? 336 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: Like? What is that instinct and time constraints? So I 337 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: think you kind of grand create. Is this going to 338 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: bear fruit? Am I going to spend an hour indulging 339 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: this idea? And often I find you park an idea 340 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: and you move on to a new one. It's a 341 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: little bit like how you if you're struggling to remember 342 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: something yourself, you know that thing of like, well, I'll 343 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 1: forget it and I'll move on to the next thing, 344 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: and then it comes to you. And I think that's 345 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: often the creative process with when you have several people. 346 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: It's like, if something's feeling jarring on, let's move on, 347 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: go to something else, or even let's take a coffee 348 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,239 Speaker 1: break list, and then then you come back and you 349 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: look at it kind of slightly differently. And I think 350 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: that that technique is often good, and often the best 351 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: ideas come mid morning, late morning and the very end 352 00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: of the day. 353 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 2: Really, what are you think that's about? 354 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: I think mid morning is, you know, people have got 355 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: energy when they start off, and so the first thing 356 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: they talk about is not the best thing, but they've 357 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: got energy, and they're sort of picking up from what 358 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: you said yesterday before, and you're planning what you're going 359 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: to do for the day, and so the first part 360 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: of the morning isn't great, but then you sort of 361 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: settle into something and then it clicks because you're all 362 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: fresh and energy. Okay, there's something here, we can really 363 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: use it. And then late morning is you know, everyone's 364 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: thinking about lunch but and so you're hungry. But that's 365 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: sort of a good burst of energy as well, sometimes 366 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: I find. And then the afternoons are hard and long 367 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: and painful, and then you're kind of frustrated because oh, 368 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: that morning work actually really wasn't great and we thought 369 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: it was but real fresh, but now we're not. And 370 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 1: so so but you wade through and you go down 371 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: different tangents and then I find like when you sort 372 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,959 Speaker 1: of like ease up and kind of go, well, it's 373 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: actually you know six o'clock and we really haven't. Oh man, 374 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: that was a bit wasted. And then as you sort 375 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: of ease up and kind of relaxing, some of my 376 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: new ideas hit you and sometimes you get clarity, and 377 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: you know, that's sort of roughly what I find. 378 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 2: I think that's really interesting, and that would match with 379 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: what the majority of the world's chronotypes are doing in 380 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 2: terms of just the natural peaks and troughs of energy, 381 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 2: like people, you know, like whether if you're a lark 382 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: or a middle bird. It's kind of excluding ours who 383 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: come to life at night. Your best cognitive work is 384 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: done before lunch, and then you dip after lunch, but 385 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 2: then you have a rebound in the late afternoon. Yeah, 386 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 2: it feels like the writer's room is mirroring that it does. 387 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: Yeh. 388 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 2: Do you have strategies to overcome writer's block when you 389 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 2: are feeling stuck? 390 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: Like? 391 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: What do you personally do? 392 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: I guess saly different if it's you alone as opposed 393 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: to being in a room being the room has with 394 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 1: multiple people in one sense has more pressure because of 395 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: the time restraints and the production output that you have 396 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: to get on, but you have more energy because you 397 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: just have different different personalities, So shaking it up as 398 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: much as you can. I mean, sometimes you decide, okay, 399 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to break away because from two's and comes 400 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: back with a few ideas we can kick start something, 401 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: get moving around the room, have someone different work on 402 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: the whiteboard. I love a white boyd I love a 403 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: white board pan. So I like kind of being that person. 404 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: But then I know sometimes it's better serve that I 405 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: sit down and let someone else run with it, or 406 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: putting someone unlikely up to run it to someone who 407 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: doesn't really want to. But I think that'll create a 408 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: better energy if they do, because you get them to 409 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: move around and put their thoughts visually on a board, 410 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: and that kind of helps bring us different sensibility to 411 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: the discussion. 412 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting, like just swapping the rolls around 413 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 2: within the room and just also physically just changing what 414 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: people are doing. Yes, I want to move on to 415 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: when the shoot is actually happening, And I think what 416 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 2: I used to think is that so you write your 417 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 2: script and then that's all locked in, and then the 418 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: actors learn their lines and then they say them and 419 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: you videotape them doing it, and then you just cut 420 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 2: it together. But it's not like that at all. So 421 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: tell me what a typical day is like when you 422 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: are shooting, Like what time you're waking up, what you're 423 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 2: doing in those early hours, and what that's looking like. 424 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: Because essentially you're very much a manager and that you're 425 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 2: managing everyone in the crew, the cart the other creatives 426 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: that are involved, but you're also a maker as well, 427 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 2: and that you're still you're still writing essentially and doing rewrites. 428 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: So what does that look like and how are you 429 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: balancing your time? 430 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: It's just that emotional battle is tough. I often think 431 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: of it as like I want one person to love 432 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: this thing like I love it, and what is the 433 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: purest way I can give that to them at the 434 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: end of the process. So that's kind of very much 435 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: on your mind. But there's so many logistics to do 436 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: with time and money that you have to navigate, and 437 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: that becomes very challenging because you're looking at you're talking 438 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: to someone directly who's saying, I can't do this in 439 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: the amount of time and I have to like, you 440 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: wanted ten chickens and I can only give you one lizard, 441 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: and that's all we can do, Glenn, And and then you go, well, yeah, 442 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: but they really wanted ten chickens, like that's that's going 443 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: to be the thing that's going to really make the 444 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: audience smile. And I didn't even think I was gonna 445 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: have a lizard in the story. And that's crazy. That's 446 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: like a different genre of thing. And so you go, okay, 447 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: let me what kind of lizard is it? And how 448 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: much is it going to cost? And but you can 449 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: only have the liseid for half an hour, but you 450 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: can only have half an hour and has to be 451 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: in Richmond because that's where we're shooting, and so you 452 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: have to be and you go, oh, well, so it's 453 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: a lizard in a cafe, right, that's what we're doing now, Okay, 454 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: So I mean that sounds natty, but that is so 455 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: much part of the job is just that trying to 456 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: work out and trying to make people's lives a little 457 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: bit easier who are doing their job to try and 458 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: make it work. 459 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 2: So it's a constant problem. 460 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's all problem solving during the shoot. So typical 461 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: shootday because and it depends what hours we're shooting, but 462 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: their ten hour days and. 463 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: That's just the shoot part, the ten hour bit. 464 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, typically the first So the first part of the 465 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: shoot we shoot in two blocks of three episodes with 466 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: two different directors. So while the first three episodes are 467 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: shooting as a block, and that means that all the episodes, 468 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: that all the sceneses are mixed up, so we can 469 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: shoot all the police station scenes on one day or 470 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: two days, and then we moved to the river and 471 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: we shoot all scenes from the first three episodes the 472 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: river scenes on that day, and then it rains and 473 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: so we have to move that day and then we 474 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: have to you know, so all that kind of logistic 475 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: stuff on its location issues and cast requirement issues. And 476 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: for the first half of the shoot, I'm still writing madly. 477 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: The second half episodes still those writers are still conceptualizing 478 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: them really, so so you're very split between trying to 479 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: achieve what you wanted out of these first scenes and 480 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: the very fast moving is happening to while you're writing. 481 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: So I will usually get up very early and have 482 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: a couple of writing hours, like how early, well, four 483 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: thirty or so or four four thirty, which is crazy 484 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: for me because I love getting up at eight o'clock 485 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: in the morning, but yeah, it allows you to also 486 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: just have that couple of hours hopefully of creative time, 487 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: even though it's pressurized creative time before the problem solving 488 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: day starts. 489 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: So how are you making the most of that? Like, 490 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 2: let's just say you wake up, you're tired, you're just 491 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: not feeling it, but you've got a deadline. 492 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: Just have to do it up a lot. 493 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: When you work, you stand up a lot. 494 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you like stand up to just drain more energy. 495 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, the the pressure of necessity gives 496 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: you a certain amount of energy, like like just the 497 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: there's no real downtime and you're like it's sort of 498 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: like you're in it to win it, as in you 499 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean for a few months last year, I didn't 500 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: take one day off because you just there's just that 501 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: work pressure is just intense. But when you've got to 502 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: constantly massive deadlines, you just sort of have to do it. 503 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: So before we started recording, you were saying how the 504 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 2: final edit of the final episode is never right the 505 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 2: first time, Like that is just a thing. 506 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: It's very very rare in my experience to get like 507 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: a first cut of something that is like, well that 508 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: is brilliant, I lock that in and let's it's often 509 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: you get the cut and you're like, oh boy, let's 510 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: rerollop us leaves. 511 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: And now the work starts. 512 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: That's yeah, the you make it. You make something three times. 513 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: You make it in the script, then you make it 514 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: when you shoot it, and then you make it in 515 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: the edit. You need the drive of energy to carry 516 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: you through both those three stages, and they were both 517 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: very very different. Writing is personal and it's on the paper, 518 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,239 Speaker 1: and you know, it's a film, more longer projects than 519 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: the television. You sometimes got more time, but you you're 520 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: trying to make a work for the reader. And then 521 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: when in production, you've got actors and you've got crew, 522 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: and you've got locations, and you're trying to make it 523 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: visually work as you shoot it. And then when you 524 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: look at what you've got and then you try and 525 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: make it work all in tandem together and things will 526 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: emerge there that you just did not see in scripts 527 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,479 Speaker 1: and you did not see in production, and then you 528 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: have to just make it works as that. And there's 529 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: so much reinvention in editing, like there is so much 530 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: storytelling that the craft is what telling is being done 531 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: in the edit. 532 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 2: And finally, like, what are some of the best pieces 533 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 2: of advice that you've been given over the years, just 534 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 2: things that have stuck with you, whether it be around 535 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 2: the creative process, around the creating process being a showrunner, Like, 536 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 2: are there are bits of advice that you've been given 537 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: over the years that have just stuck with you and 538 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 2: served you well. 539 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: Definitely, I think told me what he's a created many 540 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: shows packed to the rafters. I think credit Home and 541 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: Away always greener as show. I worked with him once 542 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: and he always talked about feeling something as a writer 543 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: as a creator, like you know, an idea, if you 544 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: feel it, Like am I feeling it or not? And 545 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: so that's just always that have been a benchmark thing 546 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: for me. If you're like whatever anything you're pitching, if 547 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: you're meant to be scared, if you meant to be happy, 548 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: if you're meant to be aroused, whatever it is it is, 549 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: if you're not feeling it, if it doesn't tap your field. 550 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: So that's what I look for. And plotting is always 551 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: like what is the emotion behind it and what is 552 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: it doing to me? And hopefully what's it going to 553 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: do to someone else. Yeah, another bit of advice was 554 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: from a writer when I was very starting out didn't 555 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: really know how to tell stories, and I think they 556 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: were being patronizing towards me, but they said, an audience 557 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: doesn't want to know how something ends, Gland, and I 558 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: was like, that's just always sort of stuck acrid. 559 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 2: Tom. 560 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: That's a really great piece of advice. It's so simple, 561 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: but you often sort of forget that you're what you're 562 00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: doing at the end of the day, no matter who 563 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,959 Speaker 1: it is is you're having a relationship with the viewer 564 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: at home, and you want to make it exciting for 565 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: them and surprising for them. And that's just that's your responsibility, 566 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: beyond the network, the budget, the cast, the process is 567 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: it's a really personal thing. Which is really exciting is 568 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,239 Speaker 1: you're just trying to move one viewer at the end 569 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: of the day and get them to go on a journey, 570 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: and they don't want to know how it ends because 571 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: it's it's not a they want to be surprised. 572 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: That's that's really cool. I love those bits of advice 573 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: that you've received. 574 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: Yes, there's that very simple one of like make it exciting, 575 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: don't give the way. There's just often comes back to 576 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: you the more kind of experience you have or the 577 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: more cluttered your kind of brain is, or the more 578 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: business minded your brain is, just getting back to that 579 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: basic sense of like make it good, make it good, 580 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: and make it mean something. That's all we want as humans, 581 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: from our stories and from our product totally. 582 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: And I think that is a lovely note to end on. 583 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: So for people that want to find out more about you, Glenn, 584 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 2: how can people consume more of your work? 585 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: Well, bloom is on coming up on Stan what else? 586 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: I think? Pork Piece I wrote on Netflix still about Bob. 587 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: Haul is it? And that was that was so that 588 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: was so good. I love that I watched that before 589 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: I met you. 590 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: Oh right, thank you realized that was so much fun 591 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, and there's a movie coming out at 592 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: some point later this year called I Met a Girl 593 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: which stars Brenton Sweets and Lily Sullivan, Peter Rosethorn. That's 594 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: coming out at some point soon. 595 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 2: Oh fantastic, awesome, grat Well. I will link to what 596 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: I can in the show notes. Glenn. It's been an 597 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. 598 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 1: Thank you. 599 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: So that is it for today's episode. I hope you 600 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: liked my chat with Glenn. If you are enjoying how 601 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: I work, Why not take maybe five ten seconds to 602 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: leave a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you happen 603 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: to have listened to this episode. It's awesome getting reviews 604 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 2: and feedback from listeners such as yourself. So thank you 605 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 2: very much, Lee in advance. If you decide to do that, 606 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: have a great day and I will see you next time.