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Speaker 1: Love this podcast. Support this show through the ACAS Supporter feature.

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Speaker 1: description to support.

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Speaker 2: Now, welcome to the Black Magic Woman to Londonara Bail.

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Speaker 3: When you look at our mob, everyone thought we were

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Speaker 3: just going to die out. What will happen?

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Speaker 2: Probably the most adaptable people on the planet.

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Speaker 1: And did emergence of the huminality again that I find

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Speaker 1: thone riching be ye.

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Speaker 4: To be white, to be white?

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Speaker 3: Look at ways the cost saved so that at the

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Speaker 3: end of the day your door's still open water.

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Speaker 2: Molly and thanks for joining. You're listening to Mondonara Bales.

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Speaker 2: And my guest today is Uncle met Gooda. And before

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Speaker 2: we start, Uncle Meck, it's important you know that first

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Speaker 2: and foremost we follow proper protocol and acknowledge the traditional

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Speaker 2: owners of the land that were gathering on today. And

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Speaker 2: I'm on Kabby Kabby Country also known as Gubby Gubby

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Speaker 2: Country here on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland, and I

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Speaker 2: also want to acknowledge elders past and present and over

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Speaker 2: to your uncle.

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Speaker 4: The same Mandanaarai.

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Speaker 3: I'm a Gungloo man on my mother's side, I think

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Speaker 3: we're say more on that side and we are, and

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Speaker 3: on my dad's side, I'm Yeuman. So my people are

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Speaker 3: really concentrated in central Queensland. We didn't venture far outside

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Speaker 3: that area. But at the moment I'm in Marlajali country

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Speaker 3: down past Perga Mission on a farm overlooking the Limestone Ridges.

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Speaker 2: So I've got Purga Mission is in Queensland right just

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Speaker 2: outside of it.

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Speaker 3: In Queensland it's outside Ips, which it was. It was

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Speaker 3: one of the first missions in Queensland.

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Speaker 4: Perga.

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Speaker 3: Lots of people got taken into Berger from all around,

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Speaker 3: same as my grandfather was in the Taroom Mission back

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Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty six when the government decided they're going

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Speaker 3: to build a damn and they shifted people out of

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Speaker 3: Tarroom Mission into Cherburg and then half the mob went

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Speaker 3: to Cherburg, half the other mob walked about two hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty kilometers and to where Warabinder is now. And

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Speaker 3: when they got to Warbinder, my people people were still

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Speaker 3: living on country then, so we got big connections through

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Speaker 3: that part of the country. But Perger was like Tarroom Mission.

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Speaker 3: They brought people from all over and all then New

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Speaker 3: South Wales out way out west of Queensland into both

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Speaker 3: Perga and Tarroom missions, So they were really big missions

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Speaker 3: back in the day.

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Speaker 2: Uncle, I just saw a book recently that I'll have

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Speaker 2: to give you you about to Rum Mission.

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Speaker 4: I'd love to see it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got all of the there's all of this

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Speaker 2: evidence in this book from an archaeologist and from some

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Speaker 2: you know Murray Fellers. Yeah, talking about the history of

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Speaker 2: Taru Mission, and they've done this kind of aerial imaging

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Speaker 2: of the land and where there's old murray Fellers had

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Speaker 2: identified where certain things were built. The aerial image actually

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Speaker 2: was not even a meter away from where they said

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Speaker 2: things were and this has gone back seventy years ago. Uncle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well I went out there for the room for the

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Speaker 3: the Yeman Determination Nut of Total Determination, and Marcy Langton's

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Speaker 3: also Yemen and her daughter Ruby was there. So the

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Speaker 3: play people are on the property where the mission was talking.

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Speaker 3: Ruby and I out to have a look and there's

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Speaker 3: not much out there now, but you got you know,

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Speaker 3: seeing you get that, you get that eery feeling that

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Speaker 3: you sort of get me go and you know you're

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Speaker 3: belonging somewhere because that's my dad's side gemon. So, but

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Speaker 3: it was really interesting. I was there for that determination

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Speaker 3: and because mobile blackfellows, you know, from all over central

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Speaker 3: Queensland and further Afield, we're there. And when the judge

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Speaker 3: got up and said I'm not here to give you

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Speaker 3: a native title, and everyone's face dropped, you know, and

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Speaker 3: we were looking at each other, and he said, I

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Speaker 3: can't give you something you've owned for thousands of years.

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Speaker 3: All I'm doing today is recognizing your ownership and Australian law,

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Speaker 3: which was really powerful. You know, it's not it's not

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Speaker 3: something government can give us. It's like sovereignty. You know,

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Speaker 3: people say, oh, we want government to give us sovereignty.

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Speaker 3: If you're trying to do that, you're looking up the

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Speaker 3: wrong You're looking in the wrong direction. With your certain sovereignty,

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Speaker 3: we don't wait for people to give it to us.

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Speaker 3: So I thought that the that was a really interesting comment,

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Speaker 3: by the by the by the.

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Speaker 2: The judge.

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Speaker 4: Justice reeves at that.

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Speaker 3: That determination, and and and and like all mobs across Australia,

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Speaker 3: we have a pretty sad history there.

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Speaker 4: There was.

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Speaker 3: Massacre out that way. There were reprisals that went on

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Speaker 3: for like forty years. If you were abriginal in those

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Speaker 3: areas you just got shot back in the day, so

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Speaker 3: sad sad places. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well that uncle in that book that I just saw,

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Speaker 2: brother Adam Bray. You probably come across Adam. He's a

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Speaker 2: Gungaloo man as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he actually gave me this book. I ran into

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Speaker 2: him randomly on the Gold Coast for the was there

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Speaker 2: for the Indigenous All Stars game, and brother Walker towards

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Speaker 2: me nine o'clock at night after having dinner somewhere at Southport.

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Speaker 2: He said where you stay and I said here, Mareton

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Speaker 2: And next minute in the morning he came down and

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Speaker 2: gave me this book about Room.

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Speaker 3: Mission and Uncle, I'd love to see it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, look, I've got a copy for you. I went

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Speaker 2: out and took a copy to one a little straight

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Speaker 2: away and all of the family names are in that

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Speaker 2: in that book.

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Speaker 3: But what also was.

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Speaker 2: There on this it's now it's cattle cattle property right,

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Speaker 2: was a whole lot of remains, skeletal remains. So obviously

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Speaker 2: that was either a massacre site where all those bodies

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Speaker 2: were either dumped or buried, or that was the graveyard.

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Speaker 2: Either way, there was there was a story from the

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Speaker 2: Murray's from that area who were telling stories that have

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Speaker 2: been passed down right yep, and it just matched up

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Speaker 2: with exactly what they were saying when the aerial imaging

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Speaker 2: came over.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe that. I absolutely believe that because Adam

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Speaker 3: Adam was actually with Ruby and I that day. We

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Speaker 3: went to look at the property, the old mission. But

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Speaker 3: you never guess. We were sitting there and they were

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Speaker 3: cutting trees down. I said, what's going on? They said, well,

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Speaker 3: after nearly one hundred years, they're finally going to build

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Speaker 3: the dam out here. So you know, Queensland has this

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Speaker 3: history of moving Aboriginal people to build things and then

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Speaker 3: they don't do it. So the dam to room and

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Speaker 3: of course the big port they were going to build it.

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Speaker 3: Marpoune shifted all them people back in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 3: you know, and burned the place down and they never

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Speaker 3: built the port.

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Speaker 2: It's all there, isn't an uncle.

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Speaker 3: It's still there. I was up there just before Christmas

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Speaker 3: at Marpoune. Sad place, you know when you feel the history,

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Speaker 3: but sad in one way, but also shows the resilience

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Speaker 3: of our more. You know, they're not given up. They're

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Speaker 3: sitting there and if it's reminding the rest of Australia

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Speaker 3: what happened good because we need repinding.

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Speaker 2: And when you talk about resilience, uncle, you know, when

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Speaker 2: I it just brings me back to this current climate,

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Speaker 2: current situation that we're in today in this country, which

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Speaker 2: is this COVID nineteen And Uncle you being on the

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Speaker 2: board of Murray School, you know, in the history of

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Speaker 2: Murray School with our family, you know, Uncle Ross Watson,

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Speaker 2: my grandmother's brother, was the founder of the Murray School

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Speaker 2: and until recently, you know, dad was still chair of

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Speaker 2: the Murray School. And I'm a past student. I graduated

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Speaker 2: at the Murray School in nineteen ninety four. In year

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Speaker 2: seven there was about eleven not even eleven kids, Uncle,

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Speaker 2: there might have been about six of us in grade

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Speaker 2: seven that graduated. And you know, for me, there's probably

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Speaker 2: twenty five kids in the school at the time. So

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Speaker 2: for me to be a past student of the school

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Speaker 2: and also be on the board, it's an absolute honor

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Speaker 2: that's been part of our family's legacy and it's I

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Speaker 2: guess I just want to say to people that are

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Speaker 2: listening to this podcast that there's all these different directions

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Speaker 2: that this yarn can go into. But the first thing

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Speaker 2: that I wanted to mention is that we have reconnected

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Speaker 2: in terms of me and you reconnected because we're both

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Speaker 2: on the board of the Murray School, and in light

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Speaker 2: of what's going on today, I just thought you'd be

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Speaker 2: a perfect person to have a yarn with.

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Speaker 3: Well, well, we have a few connections. One is our mob,

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Speaker 3: Gungloo Mob. The second is that Murray School. But thirdly,

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Speaker 3: I'm remembering being interviewed by your dad lots of times

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Speaker 3: when I was when I was, you know, at the

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Speaker 3: Culportive Research Center for Aberginal Health, and then I joined

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Speaker 3: the Human Rights Commission, so like your dad was one

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Speaker 3: of the great advocates and would get us on to

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Speaker 3: a whole range of people on these programs to make

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Speaker 3: sure I'm all about there were as informed as they

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Speaker 3: could be about what was happening. So I think I

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Speaker 3: think it's sort of that symmetry we talk about, you know,

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Speaker 3: and the family connections and all that. You know, we

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Speaker 3: all sort of joined together and say it's a small world,

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Speaker 3: but our world is different to that. We have these

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Speaker 3: connections all through our generations and this is just this

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Speaker 3: is the latest iteration you and I on the Murray's

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Speaker 3: school board. I know our student. It's just great.

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Speaker 2: And here with COVID nineteen black card, the business that

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Speaker 2: I run with my grandmother's sister, Annie Lila Watson and

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Speaker 2: the other elders involved, Annie Mary Graham and uncle Charlie Watson.

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Speaker 2: I've been kind of I guess it's not been forced

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Speaker 2: into a position of trying to reinvent our services or

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Speaker 2: reinvent our business. But to me, starting this podcast was

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Speaker 2: about doing exactly I guess what Dad was doing. How

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Speaker 2: do we engage with our mob and how do we

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Speaker 2: share stories of resilience and stories that might be challenging

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Speaker 2: but also inspiring. So for all of the tough times

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Speaker 2: at the moment that we're facing and that we will

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Speaker 2: continue to face for who knows how long, how do

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Speaker 2: we stay positive, how do we get through these times?

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Speaker 2: And how do we I guess inspire and lift each

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Speaker 2: other so that we can get through this together.

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad to see you doing this because it's original.

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Speaker 3: People have this oral history and we love telling stories,

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Speaker 3: and we get messages through through stories. You know, before

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Speaker 3: you know, I know when I was growing up, I's

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Speaker 3: listen to mom and dad and my nan and grandfather

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Speaker 3: talking and aunties and uncles, and when I look back now,

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Speaker 3: they weren't just stories. They're actually telling you lessons. They're

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Speaker 3: giving you lessons through those stories. And I think the

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Speaker 3: medium may have changed. We're using twenty first century media

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Speaker 3: like podcasts, but the concept's exactly the same. It's getting

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Speaker 3: the message out talking to people. And I sort of

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Speaker 3: agree with this fellow from America. He wrote about business

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Speaker 3: and he challenged Darwin's theory of evolution and survival of

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Speaker 3: the fittest and the strongest and the smartest, and his

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Speaker 3: view was the people who are the most adaptable survive.

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Speaker 3: And when you look at our mob, we have adapted. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: everyone thought we were just going to die out, but

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Speaker 3: we haven't. Were the fastest growing cohort within the Australian

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Speaker 3: community right now, so we're adapting and we're just I'd

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Speaker 3: love to see how you're adapting this now to getting

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Speaker 3: the message out with lots of stories and the story

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Speaker 3: of what we're going through right now. We've never seen

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Speaker 3: anything like this our time, and we'll survive this.

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Speaker 4: We will adapt, we'll get on.

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Speaker 3: We'll make sure the Murray School operates as an outreach service.

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Speaker 3: If they close schools down, We'll keep connected with our students,

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Speaker 3: will keep connected with the staff, and we'll keep connected

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Speaker 3: with our families. It'll be just a different way of

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Speaker 3: doing it.

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Speaker 2: M M Well, I wanted to say that, you know,

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Speaker 2: you and I have had many yarns you know, offline

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Speaker 2: and during board meetings and whatever, but we've had many

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Speaker 2: yarns about how we could, how we could do more

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Speaker 2: in our community, how we can support our community, how

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Speaker 2: we can I guess partner with other service providers like

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Speaker 2: the Medical Services and the Institute by UI and people

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Speaker 2: like that. So in terms of this current situation, uncle,

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Speaker 2: we're having a yarn before and you're talking about some

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Speaker 2: of the young kids that are in these boarding schools.

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Speaker 2: Can you share some of the story with life.

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Speaker 3: Well, there hasn't been in Queensland, at least closing down

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Speaker 3: our schools, but up north I'm aware of boarding schools

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Speaker 3: with the majority of whom are aberageal Torstraate Onness students

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Speaker 3: and parents wanted them home straight away, which is understandable.

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Speaker 3: The Prime Minister made a sayment on Sunday night saying

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Speaker 3: we're not closing schools, but if parents are uncomfortable with

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Speaker 3: their kids being at school, take them home, look after them.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what the mob up north wanted

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Speaker 3: to do. But you know, same with bureaucracy. There was

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Speaker 3: problems getting their flights back and all that. But again

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Speaker 3: that's now back on track. So these things are happening

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Speaker 3: right now as we speak, and I understand, you can

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Speaker 3: understand how parents are worried about their kids right in

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Speaker 3: the middle of this pandemic, and they want them home,

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Speaker 3: and that's why it's going to happen, and that's why

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Speaker 3: we will operate at the Morrow School.

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Speaker 2: I saw something come through from our principle, the smalln

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Speaker 2: and it was a PowerPoint, which is really deadly.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's great, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: The communication it's constant that we're getting these updates as

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Speaker 2: a board, right and what our deputies are doing. Can

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Speaker 2: you share some information about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, last week we had a meeting. It looked like

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Speaker 3: there was a move to close the school down. I

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Speaker 3: talked to all the board members. We went there with

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Speaker 3: a view that and set it to all the staff

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Speaker 3: that our main concern was our students and our staff

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Speaker 3: that they're they're they're Without those, we don't have school

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Speaker 3: and we will we will make the decisions in the

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Speaker 3: best interests of both the students and the staff. But

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Speaker 3: we've got to make fully informed decisions.

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Speaker 4: About where we are.

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Speaker 3: And there was a bit of a move to close

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Speaker 3: the school, but we said, no, no, there's let's work

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Speaker 3: on this because there's risks of kids, our children being

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Speaker 3: at school, but there's also risks of them not being

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Speaker 3: at school, and we've got to.

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Speaker 4: Manage those risks. And I got.

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Speaker 3: No doubt somewhere in the near future they will close

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Speaker 3: the schools. But when they do, the Murray's is going

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Speaker 3: to be in a better position than most. We have

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Speaker 3: some things that are really positive for us to keep

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Speaker 3: the connection going. For instance, ninety percent of our kids

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Speaker 3: are picked up by buses, so we got buses from

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Speaker 3: the school visiting houses and homes twice a day, pick

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Speaker 3: up kids in the morning, drop them off in the afternoon.

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Speaker 3: So we used to connecting with houses and households and

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Speaker 3: homes and parents and carers. We know that turn as

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Speaker 3: that happens, we can reach out and let our parents

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Speaker 3: know and our cares know exactly what's happening straight away.

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Speaker 3: If we have to close the school, we'll be able

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Speaker 3: to get out there We now had a long conversation

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Speaker 3: today with the Catholic Education Commission because with their schools,

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Speaker 3: they're in the same position as us. They'll probably close

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Speaker 3: shortly when the government makes a call, but they're both

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Speaker 3: of us are thinking about not actually closing the school,

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Speaker 3: but transitioning to it from a learning environment at a

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Speaker 3: school to a learning environment at home.

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Speaker 4: And how do we actually do that?

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Speaker 3: And like you said, our deputies have done a wonderful

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Speaker 3: job getting packages together that we can deliver. We're looking

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Speaker 3: at maybe some sort of it solutions, like if we

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Speaker 3: have to dip into our savings and make sure kids

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Speaker 3: have got tablets and if they don't have internet, pre

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Speaker 3: load them with lessons.

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Speaker 2: I was just about to say that, sorry to cut

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Speaker 2: you off. I was just about to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: in terms of the digital divide with Aboriginal Antarishat Islander

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Speaker 2: communities and families, not every Black fellow has a laptop

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Speaker 2: or a computer at home, a parent that has access

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Speaker 2: to devices and iPads and whatever.

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Speaker 4: And then even before you mentioned it.

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Speaker 2: On the internet exactly so here we are in terms

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Speaker 2: of the Murray School. For people that are not familiar

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Speaker 2: with the Murray School's location, it's in a case the

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Speaker 2: Ridge in Brisbane here in Queensland, and it's one of

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Speaker 2: very few Aboriginal schools that that are run independently in

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Speaker 2: this country that are operated by community. You know that

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Speaker 2: there's a board that you know that runs this school.

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Speaker 2: So in terms of the school, and like you said,

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Speaker 2: dipping into savings to make sure that our kids have

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Speaker 2: access to technologies that they can keep on engaging with

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Speaker 2: their learning. This is this is new for us, isn't it?

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Speaker 3: Oh, totally new and and we know we might have

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Speaker 3: to look around to get devices for our children and

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Speaker 3: our households. And if they don't, like I said, if

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Speaker 3: they don't have scess the internet, we can pre load

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Speaker 3: lessons on tablets or laptops or whatever we end up with,

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Speaker 3: and then there would have to be connection with the teachers.

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Speaker 4: Still.

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Speaker 3: So even though our view is that even if the

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Speaker 3: school closes to students, it doesn't shut down altogether because

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Speaker 3: we expect our teachers and the teachers are absolutely up

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Speaker 3: for this to keep the connection going with our students

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Speaker 3: and families. So it's just another of those cases mandon

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Speaker 3: Nara where I said we were the most adaptable people.

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Speaker 4: We will adapt to this, of course.

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Speaker 2: We will add and just talking about the education and

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Speaker 2: trying to set up it's kind of outreach service and

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Speaker 2: making sure that the home environment is supported with technology

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Speaker 2: and devices. If Corporate Australia is listening to this podcast,

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Speaker 2: you know, in terms of donating devices or some I

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Speaker 2: don't know what it is, but I'm just thinking for

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Speaker 2: people like Google that might be listening. You know that

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Speaker 2: Black Cart engages with many corporate clients that we roll

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Speaker 2: out our training to. Is there a message there for

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Speaker 2: Corporate Australia to get involved and to support our school,

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Speaker 2: to support Aboriginal people and communities in the Aboriginal business sector.

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Speaker 2: What's your thoughts?

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Speaker 4: Uncle?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I think this is a crisis like we've

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Speaker 3: never lived before. There's going to be just reading today,

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Speaker 3: there's going to be a million people unemployed. You look

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Speaker 3: at quite as day Lay twenty thousand people. If we've

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Speaker 3: closed all sporting venues down, those people and a lot

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Speaker 3: of our more abusing casual work at those venues, that's

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Speaker 3: no longer possible. They're closing down hotels and cafes and restaurants.

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Speaker 3: If there's opportunities to do things a little bit differently,

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Speaker 3: and you need extra sets of hands, think about the

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Speaker 3: Aboriginal Toys rate onland community reach out to people like

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Speaker 3: the Murray School and the organizations in your area to

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Speaker 3: see what's going on, because we're certainly thinking about that Monday,

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Speaker 3: now are you. And I've had the discussion of if

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Speaker 3: in this outreach program we need extra extra people, we're

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Speaker 3: going to put them on because not only do we

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Speaker 3: outreach to our kids, but we actually provide employment for someone.

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Speaker 3: If we need extra people in the family support unit

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Speaker 3: that we run at the school because the overwhelming need,

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Speaker 3: we'll do that. So I think that's what we've got

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Speaker 3: to do. We've got to commit to not only providing

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Speaker 3: the services, but in providing the service. If you need

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Speaker 3: to employ someone, do it straight away. You're giving people

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Speaker 3: an opportunity not to. I went past Ipswich yesterday and

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Speaker 3: it was so sad to see this line outside the

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Speaker 3: Social services.

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Speaker 4: Or whatever they sendl ink office.

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Speaker 3: You know, by the way, I think they could do

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Speaker 3: treat people a bit with a bit more dignity. That

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Speaker 3: they have a big line outside where everyone can see them.

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Speaker 3: That's not treating people with dignity having them line up

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Speaker 3: out on the street waiting to go into the Centerlink office.

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Speaker 2: Scenes you might see and maybe in America.

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Speaker 4: Right, yeah, it's it's shocking.

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Speaker 3: I was taken back really and I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: people just we just need to think a bit about

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Speaker 3: the humanity of what we're doing. But if if you know,

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Speaker 3: we're we're in contact. I know b HP looking at

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Speaker 3: devices for kids in our situation. So we've made contact

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Speaker 3: with BHP about that. They're also looking at how they

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Speaker 3: actually can pull the other corporates together or the corporates

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Speaker 3: are coming together talk about how they can help in

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Speaker 3: the remote areas as well, you know, so so so

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Speaker 3: you know, this is a chance for Australians to stand

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Speaker 3: up and look after those that are less needy than

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Speaker 3: than than you and and and if you know, it

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Speaker 3: can't be the dollar driving everything. This is this is

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Speaker 3: desperate times and we need desperate measures to make sure

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Speaker 3: we all get through this.

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Speaker 2: Of course, all right, so uncle, in terms of with

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Speaker 2: corporate Australia, with government, we're not for profit organizations and

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Speaker 2: all the others in between that have a reconciliation action plan.

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Speaker 2: You know what I say to people and what I

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Speaker 2: am saying, and this is a clear message now to

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Speaker 2: the rest of Australia. If you've got deliverables, then now's

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Speaker 2: the time to deliver on those. If you've got targets

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Speaker 2: to achieve, then now's the time to hit the targets

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Speaker 2: and to reach the targets instead of thinking, oh okay,

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Speaker 2: actually see what the you know, the next couple of weeks,

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Speaker 2: the next couple of months.

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Speaker 3: Look like Manda na I, think what we need to

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Speaker 3: do and get the message across and and all of

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Speaker 3: us blackfellow side of the corporate world and the government

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Speaker 3: world with things like wraps. We're going to measure you

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Speaker 3: you deal and deal with this in the hard times,

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Speaker 3: not in the good times. It's easy to do all

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Speaker 3: the right things when everything is nice and peachy. It's

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Speaker 3: the reality right now, and we will measure and we'll

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Speaker 3: remember how people deal with this crisis as a test

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Speaker 3: of their commitment to what they say they're going to

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Speaker 3: do in their wraps. So this is the time now

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Speaker 3: to stand up.

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Speaker 2: And Uncle is saying that, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 2: building relations you know now it's critical.

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Speaker 4: Right, absolutely critical.

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Speaker 2: Put these relationships into action and hopefully we'll look back

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Speaker 2: from here and hopefully, you know, we will have strengthened

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Speaker 2: relationships with each other, you know, on an individual level,

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Speaker 2: on a business level, but also on a society level.

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Speaker 2: So on that note, I just want to say uncle,

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Speaker 2: you know it's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege

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Speaker 2: to yarn with you and to have you on my show,

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Speaker 2: and I look forward to seeing what we do over

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Speaker 2: the coming days. Even things are changing by the hour.

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Speaker 3: Right absolutely they're changing. But I think we as usual

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Speaker 3: will do the right thing.

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Speaker 4: We live up to the leader.

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Speaker 3: See of your dad and all your family what the

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Speaker 3: vision was for the Murray School and we'll lead the

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Speaker 3: way to deadly Well.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Uncle mecan in my father's language,

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Speaker 2: one and Molly.

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Speaker 3: Thank you till next time.

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Speaker 2: And that was Uncle Met Gooder, who was the former

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal and terrest Rate Islander Social Justice Commissioner of the

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Speaker 2: Australian Human Rights Commission from about two thousand and nine

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Speaker 2: to twenty sixteen. He was also the co Commissioner of

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Speaker 2: the Royal Commissioner with the Protection and Attention of Children

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Speaker 2: in a Northern Territory and also currently the chair of

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Speaker 2: the Murray School Board in Brisbane. And my next guest

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Speaker 2: on Black Magic Woman is Deadly Brother Leroy Wilkinson Mark

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00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: who's the dynamic and innovative people and culture manager with

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00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: a demonstrated history of working in the nonprofit organization management

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00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: industry and has a deadly business called Dira dh double Iara.

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Speaker 2: That's all for now, hope you can join me next

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Speaker 2: time on black Magic Format