WEBVTT - Why are we all obsessed with true crime and reality TV? 

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life

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<v Speaker 1>One cart. I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of Australia who are now also in lockdown.

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<v Speaker 1>It sucks and I'm sad that you're all here with us.

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<v Speaker 1>Who are the only parts of Australia not in lockdown? Now?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it just Western Australia?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Who's keeping track? Everyone?

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<v Speaker 2>Not?

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone's life is shitty and if it's not, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to hear about it. So what's been going on

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<v Speaker 1>with you? Then? The fun thing that's been happening in

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<v Speaker 1>our household is that Lola is cutting two teeth and

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<v Speaker 1>she's currently teething. And there is nothing more wild and

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<v Speaker 1>feral than a teething toddler. I feel like the last

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<v Speaker 1>two years for you have been teething, not teething. Just

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<v Speaker 1>like children, it's either there's something wrong with the young

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<v Speaker 1>one or there's something wrong with the oldest one. They're

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<v Speaker 1>never in time and there's always some sort of drama.

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<v Speaker 1>But we thrive in chaos and we love every second

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<v Speaker 1>of earth. And you want to keep ongoing. Woman, It's weird,

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<v Speaker 1>but yes, I do. I have this like weird crazy hormonal,

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<v Speaker 1>Like now I just want to be that this mother

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<v Speaker 1>earth woman who just has lots of children, lives out

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<v Speaker 1>in Byron Bay. Okay, but this is going to blow

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<v Speaker 1>your mind. But yesterday and this is not happening. Also

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<v Speaker 1>just FYI, so we got am I finding out news

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<v Speaker 1>with Live with the Rest of Australia yesterday. As you

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<v Speaker 1>guys know if you listened to last week's episode, I

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<v Speaker 1>got my first period after having Lola, which is big

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<v Speaker 1>because I haven't had a period in like over a year,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, just about to finish and I was like, look, Matt,

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<v Speaker 1>this means you have to be really really careful now,

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<v Speaker 1>like lots of protection. I want you to double bag

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<v Speaker 1>that thing before coming to bed. You glad wrap that,

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<v Speaker 1>you glad rap that, you foil that. I was like, Matt,

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<v Speaker 1>double bag, I'm back on the pill. I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>get a Marina put in. Let's go for God. And

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<v Speaker 1>that was like, why don't we just give it one

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<v Speaker 1>crack with no contraception and see what? Oh Matt, what

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<v Speaker 1>is wrong with that? Man? Not? And I hope you,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, did you look at your face? It's like,

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<v Speaker 1>we have time to have sex. We've had a teething child.

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<v Speaker 1>Come on, Brittany, okay, because I feel like that is

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<v Speaker 1>like Russian Roulette. I don't feel like that that is

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<v Speaker 1>a good thing for you and Matt to do. I

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<v Speaker 1>do also think it's more like the odds are on

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<v Speaker 1>our side, because let's be real, like the man is fertile. Look,

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<v Speaker 1>I got a little bit sad this week because the

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<v Speaker 1>Olympics finished. Now I assume I'm on board with the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of Australia. I was so the rest of Australia

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<v Speaker 1>except you, Laura. I was so into the Olympics. I

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<v Speaker 1>loved it. I cried so many times. I had all

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<v Speaker 1>the feelings and it's finished, and I just feel like

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<v Speaker 1>they need to come around more often. I think we

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<v Speaker 1>need to put a petition out for maybe like every

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<v Speaker 1>two years we have the Olympics. I know I said

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<v Speaker 1>on last week's episode that I hadn't gotten into it,

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<v Speaker 1>but I did a real backflip, like I really got

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<v Speaker 1>into it this week. What at the finals.

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<v Speaker 2>You're not allowed to blow in and start to be

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<v Speaker 2>a supporter in the finals. You have to watch from

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<v Speaker 2>the start from the first week.

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<v Speaker 1>First, the first week was boring. I got really I

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<v Speaker 1>just watched the marathon. Guys, I'm so invested. I watched

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<v Speaker 1>a marathon raised No, I got really into it. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I feel the same, I'm like, what am I

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<v Speaker 1>gonna do with myself now that it's finished? Now, I

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<v Speaker 1>also feel sad and I feel robbed that I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>watch it earlier, Like I feel like I've missed out

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<v Speaker 1>on a fundamental part of something that was really important,

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<v Speaker 1>and I didn't get on board until it was too late.

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<v Speaker 1>I am glad that you got on board with the

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<v Speaker 1>Olympics because there is something that I wanted to ask you.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you see the marriage proposal that happened at the Olympics? Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>I did, Okay, So anyone that didn't see it, please

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<v Speaker 1>look it up. And I want to talk to you

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<v Speaker 1>about it, Laura, I want your opinion. There was an argentinianfencer,

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<v Speaker 1>her name is Maria Belen Perez Maurice. Now say that

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<v Speaker 1>ten times fast, long story short. She was doing an

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<v Speaker 1>interview after her very very unfortunate early exit in the Olympics,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was feeling really down in the dumps, and

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<v Speaker 1>then in the background, her partner and coach, Now this

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<v Speaker 1>is long term partner and he's her coach and his

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<v Speaker 1>name is Lucas Torsato. She's doing the interview. Marie's doing

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<v Speaker 1>the interview, She's doing her best to stay happy, and

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<v Speaker 1>in the background, he pops up with a sign basically

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<v Speaker 1>says will you marry me? She doesn't know he's there yet.

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<v Speaker 1>This is on the Live Cross on TV, and the

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<v Speaker 1>reporter's sort of like, oh, like, maybe you should turn

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<v Speaker 1>around kind of thing, and she turns around and she

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<v Speaker 1>sees him holding up this sign. Now, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>make a really really strong point that the sign that

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<v Speaker 1>he's holding up this isn't like some big, beautiful sign

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<v Speaker 1>that's on cardboard that's covered in glitter and diamond's and colored,

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<v Speaker 1>not like you would think a marriage proposal would be

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<v Speaker 1>at the Olympics. It was literally a piece of It's

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<v Speaker 1>like he found a note, like an a four piece

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<v Speaker 1>of paper and he's like a menu or something, and

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<v Speaker 1>he's flipped it over. He's just grabbed a black text

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<v Speaker 1>out and he's scribbled will you marry me please? And

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<v Speaker 1>it's this really really awkward moment. Now, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how you feel, or I want to know your opinion,

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<v Speaker 1>but when I watched it, I was so uncomfortable, like

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<v Speaker 1>I could barely watch it. Okay, I have so many feelings.

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<v Speaker 1>I am a middle child, Like if I made it

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<v Speaker 1>to the Olympics, I just want to have my time

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<v Speaker 1>in the sun, Like, do not come for me, do

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<v Speaker 1>not try and propose to me. That is a separate

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<v Speaker 1>occasion and I want to be able to celebrate that

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<v Speaker 1>on a separate day. I agreed, like, you trained for

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<v Speaker 1>years to be at the Olympics. It's your one little

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<v Speaker 1>time in the spotlight. And on top of that, it's

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<v Speaker 1>the sign if you're going to steal my thunder, steal

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<v Speaker 1>it with a glittery sign, like a big piece of cardboard. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it just goes to show that it was

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<v Speaker 1>like really poorly thought out. He did actually come out

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<v Speaker 1>and say, oh yeah that, had she won, he probably

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have done the proposal on TV. He would have

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<v Speaker 1>allowed her that moment. But also, who cares if she

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<v Speaker 1>won or didn't win. She made it to the freaking Olympics,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was her opportunity to be able to share

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<v Speaker 1>how she felt about her experience, about how hard she'd trained,

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<v Speaker 1>about all the things she did. And then it turned

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<v Speaker 1>into a marriage proposal, which obviously she was happy. She said, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, like there are parts of this that are

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<v Speaker 1>really exciting for her now. But something that you guys

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<v Speaker 1>might not know is that it's not his first rodeo.

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<v Speaker 1>Her coach. He did this eleven years ago at a

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<v Speaker 1>different competition where she had actually won. He proposed to

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<v Speaker 1>her at that competition as well, and she said no.

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<v Speaker 1>He said it. So it was the World Championships eleven

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<v Speaker 1>years ago and he did exactly the same thing, and

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<v Speaker 1>she turned around and she said, are you kidding me? Like,

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<v Speaker 1>how dare you? He went and sat back. You bide

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<v Speaker 1>his time for eleven years and then he did it again.

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<v Speaker 1>He's like, surely at the Olympics, it's not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a no. Like he probably knew that was his

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<v Speaker 1>chance to get a yes out of it, because he's like,

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<v Speaker 1>she won't say no at the Olympic. It feels a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit inconsiderate, Like I think, if you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>propose to someone that is a day that is special

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<v Speaker 1>in and of itself, you don't have to take and

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<v Speaker 1>make the one thing that they have worked for so

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<v Speaker 1>hard about you and about your relationship because it's not

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<v Speaker 1>about that, Okay, I have something even better. I need

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<v Speaker 1>to trumpet.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was looking up this story about this proposal,

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<v Speaker 2>I stumbled across another proposal and this happened at this

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<v Speaker 2>same Olympics.

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<v Speaker 1>This just happened, I think today or yesterday. He is

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<v Speaker 1>the German football captain. His name is Max Kruse. Now

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<v Speaker 1>I could have pronounced that incorrectly, but.

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<v Speaker 2>This is, Laura, the most awkward proposal you will ever see.

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<v Speaker 1>So his team had just won three to two. He's

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<v Speaker 1>live on TV. Now. I don't know if a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people know, but partners et cetera can't go to

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<v Speaker 1>the Olympic. Partners can't go. Now this Max, he's the captain,

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<v Speaker 1>he's just one. He's on a live interview cross and

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<v Speaker 1>he stops halfway takes his shirt off, and everyone's like,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't understand what he's doing. He's taking his shirt

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<v Speaker 1>off and underneath he had another shirt, like a black

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<v Speaker 1>T shirt, and in writing on the shirt he asked

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<v Speaker 1>his girlfriend to marry him. Now, the real kicker in

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<v Speaker 1>this part is his girlfriend's not even in the country.

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<v Speaker 1>She's just watching on TV in like another country. So

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<v Speaker 1>she got proposed to when she wasn't even there. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what you think about this, but if

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<v Speaker 1>you proposed to me.

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<v Speaker 2>You're in a high and you're winning in another country

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not there on live television, it's probably going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a no.

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<v Speaker 1>No way. I completely disagree with you. I actually think

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<v Speaker 1>that that is so adorable. But they can't even be

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<v Speaker 1>there to kiss or cuddle or like anything. He didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even know the answer, because it's not like he organized

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<v Speaker 1>for her to be like their live and answer. It

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<v Speaker 1>was just he just put it on TV and it

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<v Speaker 1>was so awkward to watch. You have to look at Laura.

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<v Speaker 1>Even the person that was interviewing him didn't know what

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<v Speaker 1>to do. She's looking around so awkward. She's like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>do we just cut here? Or I felt awkward watching it? Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason why I think that this is cute and

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<v Speaker 1>it's not awkward one I haven't seen it, so like

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<v Speaker 1>I'll reserve my judgment until I do. But I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's cute because his girlfriend couldn't be there. She was

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<v Speaker 1>obviously she would be watching it on TV. She would

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<v Speaker 1>be so excited for him, and him doing that is

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<v Speaker 1>like a way of him bringing her into that experience,

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<v Speaker 1>like he's just one this is his high and he

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<v Speaker 1>wants her to be a part of that. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that that is like beyond beautiful, even if it makes

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<v Speaker 1>every other person I'm comfortable watching it. I would like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, if someone wanted to propose to me

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<v Speaker 1>when they just won whatever sport they were playing, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was there amazing, but I want to be present

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<v Speaker 1>at my own proposal. I feel like that for me,

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<v Speaker 1>that is, you know, I have a few things that

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<v Speaker 1>are non negotiables, and me being there when I'm proposed

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<v Speaker 1>to is one of those things. Well, I mean, if

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<v Speaker 1>you come back to Australia and you and Jordan keep

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<v Speaker 1>doing long distance, it could be over zoomed. So who

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<v Speaker 1>fucking knows. But also, Matt to this day has never

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<v Speaker 1>actually proposed to me, Like, I don't even know one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent if we're engaged. Whoa, whoa, what do you mean?

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<v Speaker 1>Matt has never asked me to marry him. He never

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<v Speaker 1>said will you marry me? Didn't you have a really

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<v Speaker 1>wrote some sort of romantic thing on a beach on

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<v Speaker 1>it on in Fiji or something from memory? Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 1>was very romantic. Matt set up a go pro he

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<v Speaker 1>did all the things that you're set up a go

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<v Speaker 1>First Things First content hashtag love. He said, up a GoPro.

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<v Speaker 1>We're on this beach in Fiji. He like, I was

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<v Speaker 1>eight months pregnant. It was so pregnant, and like I

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<v Speaker 1>was past the point where you were supposed to fly

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<v Speaker 1>in pregnancy. But I was like, I am goddamn having

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<v Speaker 1>a baby moon. So we went to Fiji. Anyway. I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, let's go and have a photo of the

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<v Speaker 1>sunset just out the front of the villa, which was

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<v Speaker 1>literally just out the front of where we were staying.

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<v Speaker 1>And Matt was like, no, let's walk up the beach.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a really cute spot up the beach. The

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<v Speaker 1>beach was exactly the same no matter where you were,

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<v Speaker 1>it was just flat. You're like, I am a beach ball.

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<v Speaker 1>I do not want to.

0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Walk up the beach, just flat, identical beach the whole

0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:30.880
<v Speaker 2>way up the coast. I was like, okay, So we

0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:32.839
<v Speaker 2>went for this walk, walked past because there was lots

0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.000
<v Speaker 2>of people around, So we walked past all the people

0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.440
<v Speaker 2>all the way up. He then sets this GoPro up

0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:39.640
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, something is happened here.

0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Hang on. So the GoPro wasn't prepared. He said it.

0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.240
<v Speaker 1>He was like, wait a minute while I set the gopra, laugh,

0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:50.560
<v Speaker 1>stop it. I'm dying. Matt, be prepared or prepare to fail,

0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.880
<v Speaker 1>that's the same. So he sets the gypro up and

0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:59.880
<v Speaker 1>then he just starts crying, like crying and crying. I

0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.120
<v Speaker 1>went from thinking maybe he was going to propose to

0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.439
<v Speaker 1>me to like telling me that he had a terminal illness,

0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, what is happening. It's the go

0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:09.680
<v Speaker 1>for content. Everyone loves the tears.

0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.880
<v Speaker 2>So he gets down on one knee, but he doesn't

0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.640
<v Speaker 2>really get down one ae. He's crying, still crying, and

0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.200
<v Speaker 2>his knee literally just touches the sand and he gets

0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:18.720
<v Speaker 2>straight back.

0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Up and then that was it. He didn't say anything.

0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.480
<v Speaker 2>He just cry Why couldn't he keep his knee on

0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.800
<v Speaker 2>the ground. I have so many questions in this proposal.

0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.600
<v Speaker 2>And then he pulled a ring out and then I

0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.520
<v Speaker 2>was like no. Then he said some really nice things

0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.520
<v Speaker 2>about how much he loves me and how I'm the

0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:34.840
<v Speaker 2>best and.

0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:36.839
<v Speaker 1>Blah blah blah blah blah. He was all very cute,

0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.720
<v Speaker 1>but he never actually said will you marry me? And

0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.240
<v Speaker 1>maybe that's why we're still not married. Two and a

0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.960
<v Speaker 1>half years later. So was there a yes to the

0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.080
<v Speaker 1>question he didn't ask or was there just like some

0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.679
<v Speaker 1>tears and then some cuddles and then I think there

0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:50.240
<v Speaker 1>was just tears and cuddles and then I put a

0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.280
<v Speaker 1>ring on and then I was like, we're getting married.

0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.160
<v Speaker 1>It's like the end of this, like the Bachelor finale

0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.040
<v Speaker 1>all over it. Totally. Yeah, We're just gonna be pep.

0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.920
<v Speaker 1>This is it right, We've got two kids. We don't

0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:00.480
<v Speaker 1>need to get married. To be honest, and I know

0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.880
<v Speaker 1>I've said this before, but but a wedding is so

0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.440
<v Speaker 1>not something that's important to me. Like a wedding, I

0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.040
<v Speaker 1>know it's going to be the best day with our friends.

0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:08.720
<v Speaker 1>I know we're gonna have so much fun when and

0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.440
<v Speaker 1>if it actually happens, But it's just not the thing

0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.320
<v Speaker 1>that's important to me, you know. And I think that

0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.960
<v Speaker 1>that comes from having broken families and broken relationships, like

0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, my parents being divorced. But having a wedding

0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.000
<v Speaker 1>has never been something that I've been envisaged as a

0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.440
<v Speaker 1>little kid. And I know some people really kind of

0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.240
<v Speaker 1>fantasize about what their wedding's going to be like. To

0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.640
<v Speaker 1>be honest, I have a very strong feeling that our

0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.720
<v Speaker 1>wedding's going to be postpone because of COVID, which is

0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.760
<v Speaker 1>really annoying. Don't put that out to the universe. It's

0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.040
<v Speaker 1>supposed to be in November, guys, but I'm thinking at

0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.760
<v Speaker 1>this rate it's probably going to be postponed. Honestly, who know,

0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Like you actually don't know what's going to happen anymore.

0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.439
<v Speaker 1>Like maybe the world goes back to normal. The vaccination

0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.559
<v Speaker 1>seems to be rolling out really quickly. Maybe we're perpetual

0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.679
<v Speaker 1>in lockdown. I think every day as it comes. Yeah, yeah,

0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 1>I know. But you know what, even if it does

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.000
<v Speaker 1>get delayed, I know there's so many other people out

0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:56.839
<v Speaker 1>there who have done the same thing and then they've

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 1>still had a wonderful wedding at the end of it. Anyway,

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.000
<v Speaker 1>So on the day in lockdown, we live to tell

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.640
<v Speaker 1>the tale. It'll be something we tell our kids when

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.440
<v Speaker 1>we're older. We have a awesome episode for you all today,

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 1>and this is something that we've been sitting on for

0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 1>a little while. We interviewed a psychologist. Her name is

0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Sandy Ray. She's amazing. She is amazing. And the thing

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.120
<v Speaker 1>about this episode is because we're getting into I mean

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.960
<v Speaker 1>You guys know where balls deep in Bachelor time already,

0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 1>but it goes from the Bachelor season to Bachelorette and

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 1>then straight into maths. And we thought that because we're

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.559
<v Speaker 1>getting well and truly back into reality TV time, we

0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:33.559
<v Speaker 1>would sit down and talk to our psychologists, who is

0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 1>an expert in reality TV. Now, what this interview is

0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.439
<v Speaker 1>is unpacking why are we so obsessed with reality TV?

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.920
<v Speaker 1>What are the psychological implications of being a contestant on

0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 1>reality TV? And also what is the moral and ethical

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 1>responsibility of production and editing when it comes to how

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.679
<v Speaker 1>people and characters? And I say that in quotations how

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.160
<v Speaker 1>characters are portrayed on reality TV. And I know so

0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.439
<v Speaker 1>many of you who would listen to this podcast have

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of come to us because originally you were Batchet fans,

0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.679
<v Speaker 1>and I really think that you're going to enjoy this episode.

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Sandy is such an awesome, warm woman, and she has

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 1>such a really unique insight into reality TV and what

0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:18.360
<v Speaker 1>she thinks is morally okay. I absolutely love speaking to Sandy.

0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 1>And the second that we hung up the phone from

0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 1>that interview, I said to Laura, we have to get

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Sandy on for so many other things. In the future

0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 1>because she's so so knowledgeable, she's so so researched, and

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.600
<v Speaker 1>she's just a barrel of fun. But before we get

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.920
<v Speaker 1>into that, and before we get into it accidentally unfilters, Laura,

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 1>you did tell me you had a recommendation for me,

0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 1>and I have been sitting on this waiting for you

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>to tell me. What is it? Okay, So for everybody

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.600
<v Speaker 1>who's sitting in lockdown and needs some more content to

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:49.440
<v Speaker 1>consume on their TVs, my recommendation is Doctor Death Now. Yes, okay,

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 1>it is so freaking good. Guys. It is eight episodes.

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.080
<v Speaker 1>They're all about an hour long, so they're like, it's

0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.000
<v Speaker 1>really like sitting down and watching a movie, maybe forty

0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.120
<v Speaker 1>five minutes. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it's got the guy

0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 1>who used to be in Dawson's Creek, you know, Pacey

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 1>from Dawson's Creek, Josh Jackson. I don't know his name,

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.280
<v Speaker 1>but he grew up Shaw Jackson and he is so

0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.800
<v Speaker 1>good in this. So the series is about this doctor

0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.920
<v Speaker 1>in the United States name doctor Christopher Dunch, who ended

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 1>up being convicted of crimes against the elderly or something

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.720
<v Speaker 1>of that vein, but it follows his series of like

0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.600
<v Speaker 1>thirty different cases over a really short period of time

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 1>where he maliciously and with intent caused so much harm

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.080
<v Speaker 1>to his patients. Two of the patients died, and one

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 1>of the patients, who was actually his friend, ends up

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 1>horrifically injured from his surgeries. Now, this is based on

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.240
<v Speaker 1>a true story. It only happened like in the last

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 1>sut of fifteen years and it is just incredibly harrowing

0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 1>if you're into true crime. It is such a epic

0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 1>mini series. And Matt and I cooked we're up to

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 1>the last episode, which we're going to watch tonight. And

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.080
<v Speaker 1>then apparently there's also a documentary about doctor death on

0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.160
<v Speaker 1>stand as well, and there's a podcast, like it's a

0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 1>whole thing. You can fully immerse yourself in this man's

0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:05.800
<v Speaker 1>weirdly screwed up, messed up, narcissistic, psychopathic mind. I highly recommend.

0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen the series yet, but I listened to

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 1>the podcast years ago, like sort of when podcasts really

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.280
<v Speaker 1>started to come out. And because I love true crime,

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.360
<v Speaker 1>you guys all know that I can highly highly recommend

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 1>the podcast if you're interested, and it's probably a good

0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 1>thing to flow on if you listen to the podcast first,

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>then go watch the series. I feel like they go

0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.560
<v Speaker 1>really well together because you'll get a lot of information

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.280
<v Speaker 1>from the pod that probably doesn't make it into the series.

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.920
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, I'm backing your recommendation on that one, Laura,

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.120
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent. I guess one of the really interesting

0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 1>things as well is how different the American healthcare system

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.720
<v Speaker 1>is from the Australian healthcare system and how he was

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.120
<v Speaker 1>able to get away with it for so long because

0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.479
<v Speaker 1>none of the hospitals wanted to report him for malpractice

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.640
<v Speaker 1>or have his license revoked, because what it would mean

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.280
<v Speaker 1>was that then they would open themselves up to being sued.

0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 1>So any of the patients who had been hugely affected

0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.520
<v Speaker 1>by his just like no one knows whether it was

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 1>on purpose or whether he was just like poorly trained,

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 1>but the hospitals didn't want to take ownership for it.

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.840
<v Speaker 1>But it also meant that all these patients who were

0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 1>so horrifically injured by him weren't given any support or

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.200
<v Speaker 1>any funding. It was just this like, oh, accidents happened

0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of mentality, But bad things were happening in every

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 1>single one of his surgeries, and it's oh, it's so good.

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Please go watch it. Add it to your list. It's

0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.960
<v Speaker 1>on stand. Cannot recommend it enough. All right, let's jump

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.479
<v Speaker 1>into some accidentally I'm filtereds. I have a very sweet

0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.360
<v Speaker 1>accidentally unfiltered today. So I'm hoping that you've brought one

0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 1>that's saucy, dirty and a little bit messed up. Mine's

0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty funny. It's not that dirty, but it's pretty funny.

0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 1>So uncomfortable you can go first.

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Hey, girls, I will never live this down. So

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.160
<v Speaker 2>I was trying to spice things up with my boyfriend

0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 2>because we'd been together a while, and well, you know

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 2>how it is missionary.

0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.480
<v Speaker 1>They did a doggy go crazy. We were at a

0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 1>huge work events slash presentation for my company. I'm talking

0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 1>maybe about one hundred people. It was so fucking boring.

0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 1>My boyfriend was sitting across from me at this big table.

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 1>So I decided to send him a sexy nude that

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 1>I took the week before. I just had a banked,

0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, for those nude sending emergencies.

0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 2>I love that she had a nude sending an emergency bank.

0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.440
<v Speaker 2>For some reason, I decided to air drop this nude

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 2>to him. So the name Jason popped up on the screen.

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.359
<v Speaker 2>I watched as it says picture accepted. I look up

0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.720
<v Speaker 2>with a smirk to see his response, and I give

0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.240
<v Speaker 2>him the sexy eyes from across the table, only to

0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 2>see him in deep conversation with the person next to him.

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.359
<v Speaker 2>His phone is on the table, nowhere near him. It

0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.040
<v Speaker 2>is then that I get the sinking feeling and I

0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>know I have met a grave error. My eyes dart

0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 2>around the room and I finally catch a man, eyes wide,

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.840
<v Speaker 2>looking at his phone. He's in his mid forties and

0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I have never seen him in my life. I see

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.080
<v Speaker 2>him glance around into his lockeyes, and I swear to god,

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.639
<v Speaker 2>we had a whole panish conversation without even saying a word.

0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:51.600
<v Speaker 2>The look on my face must have said it all

0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:53.879
<v Speaker 2>mouth I'm so sorry that wasn't for you, and he

0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.879
<v Speaker 2>nervously chuckled and looked away. I have absolutely no doubt

0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.080
<v Speaker 2>that that photo is still in this man's phone.

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.639
<v Speaker 1>In my defense, I can't blame him because it was

0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 1>the best nude I've ever taken. Oh my god, I

0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:08.200
<v Speaker 1>think the best bit.

0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:10.280
<v Speaker 2>The best bit is that she has to then sit

0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.600
<v Speaker 2>there in the room with him, with his with her

0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:13.680
<v Speaker 2>nude on his phone.

0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:15.840
<v Speaker 1>But the moment that you look up with the sex

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:17.720
<v Speaker 1>sizes to your boyfriend and you're like, hang on, the

0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.479
<v Speaker 1>phone's not even in his hand. You're like, this happens

0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 1>to me. Okay, not to me. I don't send nudes,

0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.240
<v Speaker 1>but this happens to me all the time with people

0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.320
<v Speaker 1>send me the wrong things because I don't have my

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.879
<v Speaker 1>name or my phone, it just says iPhone. Yes, So

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm always copying like random pictures of people's dogs or

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:35.760
<v Speaker 1>people's kids or anyway. Yes, just say no. Never accept

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 1>Never accept an air drop unless you know that you're

0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:39.919
<v Speaker 1>supposed to be accepting one. What was he thinking? So

0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 1>this happened, and this happened to me literally last week. No,

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.200
<v Speaker 1>I didn't send a nude. But Jordan and I were

0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.840
<v Speaker 1>in a line for to pick up some lunch and

0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:49.560
<v Speaker 1>I was trying to send him some phote. He was

0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 1>right next to me. I was trying to send him

0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 1>some photos and I kept pressing send and he kept

0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.159
<v Speaker 1>pressing decline and they were like fifteen photos and I

0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:57.840
<v Speaker 1>did it about four times. I was like, mate, if

0:19:57.840 --> 0:19:59.879
<v Speaker 1>you fucking decline this one more time, I'm not sending you.

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:01.800
<v Speaker 1>He's like, what are you talking about and then this

0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:03.800
<v Speaker 1>little there's about like a fifteen year old boy behind

0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:05.399
<v Speaker 1>me says, oh, you keep trying to send them to me,

0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm so sorry. He's like I didn't want to

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.440
<v Speaker 1>say anything, but I just kept pressing sand and he

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 1>was like, decline, decline, decline. But his was iPhone as well.

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh oh god, all right, I haven't accidentally unfiltered for

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.200
<v Speaker 1>you guys. It is very innocent. It's not like me now.

0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm actually really proud of us today. Not one mention

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:26.720
<v Speaker 1>of a Pooh story, no poerson, no farts. Oh it's

0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 1>so weird. What are we maturing here?

0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>We go?

0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay. As part of my job, we take passport style photos.

0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 1>Rules are pretty simple, but there are quite a few

0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 1>stipulations around how passport photos can be taken looking straight

0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:40.960
<v Speaker 1>at the camera. I usually hold my hand above the

0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.920
<v Speaker 1>cameras that they look right at that spot, no smiling,

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.640
<v Speaker 1>neutral expression. The idea is that it needs to show

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.439
<v Speaker 1>your face in the most natural state possible. So this

0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 1>one day, an elderly lady comes in to have her

0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.000
<v Speaker 1>passport photo taken. I've run through with her the details

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.040
<v Speaker 1>around how the photo needs to be taken and we

0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.399
<v Speaker 1>have a little chat back and forth. When I'm like, okay,

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.040
<v Speaker 1>could you just have a seat over here, She asked

0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:03.800
<v Speaker 1>me if she can smile, and I say, oh, you

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.479
<v Speaker 1>can do a little smile, but unfortunately no teeth. She

0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.359
<v Speaker 1>looked at me with a confused look on her face

0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.080
<v Speaker 1>for a second, and then she goes, oh, okay, they

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.400
<v Speaker 1>want it really natural. Then she bends forward, brings her

0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.840
<v Speaker 1>hand up to her face and pulls out her fighting teeth.

0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.560
<v Speaker 1>So here we are, yes, Queen, the photo booth, the

0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.960
<v Speaker 1>lady sitting there smiling a little smile with absolutely no

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 1>teeth in, holding her teeth in her right hand, waiting

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.639
<v Speaker 1>for me to take the passport photo. It took everything

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:35.800
<v Speaker 1>within me not to burst out laughing, but it didn't

0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:37.159
<v Speaker 1>have the heart to tell her that she could put

0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 1>her teeth back in. So I took the photo with

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 1>her tee. No, No, you did her dirty.

0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 2>You should have told her that she can put a

0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.440
<v Speaker 2>teeth in, because those passport photos last for ten years.

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:52.879
<v Speaker 2>She's got ten new photo with no teeth and like

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 2>a gummy smile.

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.960
<v Speaker 1>So you did her so dirty. Well, the thing that

0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I think is so great about this, I'm not even

0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:02.520
<v Speaker 1>laughing about this elderly lady having no teeth. I love

0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 1>that she just doesn't care. She was like, oh whatever.

0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Like the person who's the most uncomfortable in this is

0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.640
<v Speaker 1>the person taking the photo. Like the old lady who's

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:12.359
<v Speaker 1>got no tea, she doesn't care. She's baller. She's like, whatever,

0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.080
<v Speaker 1>I'll take my teeth out. I think when you get

0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.040
<v Speaker 1>to that point of your life, you've seen some things

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:18.520
<v Speaker 1>and you've lived some days. I don't think anything bothers

0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:21.199
<v Speaker 1>you anymore. Well, there's one part of me that's like

0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:22.639
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait for that, and the other part of

0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:24.320
<v Speaker 1>me is like, I'd still like to wipe my own asks.

0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:27.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm done the second I can't wipe my own arms.

0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:29.399
<v Speaker 1>Or you just need one of those bidets. You know

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 1>in Italy they have a bidet that like spurts the

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:32.360
<v Speaker 1>hose on your butt.

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:35.399
<v Speaker 2>I thought we were gonna say, you just need like

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:37.159
<v Speaker 2>one of those sticks with like a little wifer on

0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the end. I was like, yeah, I think I want

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:41.120
<v Speaker 2>to chap out like a backscratcher.

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, guys, let's get into the chat with Sandy Ray.

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.120
<v Speaker 1>We hope that you love it. We hope you get

0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 1>something out of this and a little insight into the

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:58.160
<v Speaker 1>world of reality te Baby. Today on the podcast, we

0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 1>have Sandy Ray joining us now. Sandy is a leading

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.400
<v Speaker 1>practicing psychologist. She's based in Melbourne and she has more

0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.400
<v Speaker 1>than thirty years professional experience. She has our own private practice,

0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Sandy Rain Associates, So we were like, BINGO, let's get

0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 1>this woman in. She has so many qualifications in the

0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 1>psychological science, which is why we have her here today.

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 1>She also holds a Masters of Criminology and that is

0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:22.920
<v Speaker 1>something that I'm actually very very interested. All you listeners

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:26.240
<v Speaker 1>know that I froth true crime. You guys might also

0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 1>know Sandy from Channel nine is today show the chat

0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Room all the Herald's Sun too. But today we have

0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Sandy here for a different sort of reason. We want

0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:37.840
<v Speaker 1>to talk about reality TV because well we all know

0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:39.600
<v Speaker 1>we've both been on it. We all know we're sick

0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:43.439
<v Speaker 1>for it. So Sandy, thank you for joining Life on

0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.879
<v Speaker 1>cart and please let's get into why we're so obsessed

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.240
<v Speaker 1>as humans with reality TV.

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Well I'm obsessed too, so there we go completely nutally.

0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:54.560
<v Speaker 2>So that's good rule on the same page.

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Wonderful. So thanks so much for coming to join us today.

0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.919
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think you are with reality TV. Why

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:02.240
<v Speaker 1>do you think we all are obsessed?

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think all of us are psychologists at some way.

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we all love looking at human behavior. That's

0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.960
<v Speaker 2>really the core of it. We like understanding our own behavior,

0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:15.040
<v Speaker 2>We like understanding other people's behavior. We get feedback about

0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:17.200
<v Speaker 2>what am I thinking? Is it right? Is it wrong?

0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:20.760
<v Speaker 2>We get a chance to explore all the emotional range

0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:25.359
<v Speaker 2>of indignation, of anger, of identification. We get to the

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:28.960
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to be judgmental in the privacy of our own home.

0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 2>We get the opportunity to talk to our girlfriends or

0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:35.879
<v Speaker 2>our partners about gas lighting or abuse or arguments and

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.400
<v Speaker 2>things like that. So I think what it is, of course,

0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:40.720
<v Speaker 2>is a reflection of what goes on behind closed doors,

0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:42.600
<v Speaker 2>or I think that's what a lot of people enjoy

0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:43.480
<v Speaker 2>that experience.

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Britain, I were kind of saying earlier. We were like,

0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:47.919
<v Speaker 1>I am sick for it. And the weird thing for

0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.040
<v Speaker 1>me is though I was never really into reality TV

0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:52.480
<v Speaker 1>until I did The Bachelor, until I had a bit

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:54.680
<v Speaker 1>more of an understanding of the back end of it,

0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.320
<v Speaker 1>and then I was like, ah, I kind of really

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.880
<v Speaker 1>like this now, and also knowing how much. It actually

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:03.719
<v Speaker 1>really can change people's lives. Like I know that that

0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:06.440
<v Speaker 1>sounds a bit fluffy, but like for us obviously it's

0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:08.520
<v Speaker 1>had a huge impact on our lives. But I think

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:09.879
<v Speaker 1>one of the things to me that I was like

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 1>I really enjoyed now as an observer and as a

0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:14.879
<v Speaker 1>watcher is that I can go to work and I

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:17.359
<v Speaker 1>can talk to the girls that I work with about

0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 1>what we've seen on TV. And this sounds bad, but

0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:22.879
<v Speaker 1>it's almost like gossiping about people that we know without

0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.399
<v Speaker 1>actually gossiping about people that we know. And I know

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:27.280
<v Speaker 1>it leads into this behavior of like, oh, I want

0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:29.080
<v Speaker 1>to did you see that thing that this person did

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:31.120
<v Speaker 1>or did you see that thing that was said? And

0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you have this insight and you feel like

0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:37.720
<v Speaker 1>you're so connected to these people, but we don't actually

0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:38.120
<v Speaker 1>know them.

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.120
<v Speaker 2>And it's a really interesting point. There's a thing called

0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:44.439
<v Speaker 2>social comparison theory in psychology, and I think that's what

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:46.600
<v Speaker 2>operates a lot of the time in looking at reality

0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:50.439
<v Speaker 2>TV and social comparison theory, as the name implies, is

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:53.119
<v Speaker 2>comparing ourselves to others. And I think then when we

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>go to work or you know, like they're people who

0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 2>have parties together, say when married at first side song,

0:25:57.840 --> 0:25:59.800
<v Speaker 2>all the girls have girls' nights on, and then you

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.720
<v Speaker 2>see all the Twitter feeds and it is this comparison.

0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:05.639
<v Speaker 2>It's this not illusion, but it's this comparison of what

0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:07.800
<v Speaker 2>does my life look like. I think that's that's the

0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:09.520
<v Speaker 2>big pull, you know, the big draw card.

0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:12.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm so interested in the social comparison theory because we

0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:15.439
<v Speaker 1>try to preach and we try to say, don't compare

0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:17.200
<v Speaker 1>yourself to others. And I think that that's a very

0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:20.520
<v Speaker 1>romantic and a very beautiful idea, and I think that's

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 1>where it ends. And we all should be trying not

0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 1>to compare ourselves because we are different humans, living different

0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:28.399
<v Speaker 1>lives on different paths. But I think, deep down, you

0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:31.280
<v Speaker 1>can never one hundred percent not want to compare yourself

0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:33.639
<v Speaker 1>to someone else's life. In some aspects. I know that

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:35.800
<v Speaker 1>I still, if I'm honest, I still do it now,

0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:38.480
<v Speaker 1>even other people's relationships. Like you know, ten years and

0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:40.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm finally in a relationship and the first thing I

0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:43.040
<v Speaker 1>do is start to compare it to other people's because

0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:45.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a relationship with my own to compare

0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:48.200
<v Speaker 1>it to. Can we ever really one hundred percent stop

0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 1>that well.

0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:51.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, comparing ourselves to others actually has a lot

0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:54.000
<v Speaker 2>of value. So the idea of you know, negating that

0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and saying, you know, oh you don't be judgmental, but

0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:00.240
<v Speaker 2>actually has It's a safety mechanism for a start, because

0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:02.719
<v Speaker 2>we're making judgments, is that the right person to be with?

0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:05.520
<v Speaker 2>For a start, So you know, fight, flight or freeze?

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:07.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, have you ever heard of those responses before?

0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Not the freeze one.

0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:11.280
<v Speaker 2>It's an evolutionary response, so fight or flight, and then

0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:14.360
<v Speaker 2>the third one they now introduces freeze. So the idea

0:27:14.440 --> 0:27:17.439
<v Speaker 2>of assessing what's going on in our environment, which is

0:27:17.440 --> 0:27:21.240
<v Speaker 2>what judging is, is actually a really good survival mechanism.

0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 2>It determines do I need to connect any further this person,

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.520
<v Speaker 2>or there's something that I don't quite like about this person,

0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to pull back and move away. So I

0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:34.920
<v Speaker 2>would argue that being judgmental is actually quite a good

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:37.879
<v Speaker 2>instinct to develop. I've got three girls, and you know

0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 2>this argument about let the kids explore their own you know,

0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:44.199
<v Speaker 2>dynamics with their peers and things like this, and I

0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:47.919
<v Speaker 2>used to go, if I see things, I'm going to

0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:50.000
<v Speaker 2>teach them because I'm ahead of the game. So I

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 2>used to say, for instance, when girls were bullies or

0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:55.359
<v Speaker 2>something was going on, I'm telling you now, and I

0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:58.880
<v Speaker 2>should teach the girls that watch and listen. There will

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 2>be something going on in that child's family, that they're

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:04.439
<v Speaker 2>a bully, or that they're being viol at school or

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:06.800
<v Speaker 2>something like that, and sure enough it would all unfold.

0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 2>And I would actually teach my girls very explicitly to

0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:14.480
<v Speaker 2>look and watch and observe. And with that comes judgment.

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:16.480
<v Speaker 2>But you know, there's this sort of, as you say,

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:19.280
<v Speaker 2>that stereotypical view of don't be judgmental, but in fact,

0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:23.199
<v Speaker 2>judging has a really good social and protective function.

0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.200
<v Speaker 1>What do you think that we can consciously learn from

0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:27.760
<v Speaker 1>watching other people's behavior.

0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 2>I think the overarching word that I would say is

0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.880
<v Speaker 2>learning empathy. If I had to just nail in one word,

0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:37.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, I've got to give you lots of sentences,

0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, opportunities and a capacity to look at our

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 2>own emotions and how other people develop and relate and

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:44.240
<v Speaker 2>all the rest of it. But if there would be

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:48.480
<v Speaker 2>one salient word, I think it's empathy on all the spectrum.

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:52.880
<v Speaker 2>There's a famous marriage relationship person called Gotman, and he says,

0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 2>there's lots of things that create relationships and fractures in relationships,

0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:58.640
<v Speaker 2>blah blah blah. And he says, if there's one word

0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:04.480
<v Speaker 2>that I could say that causes fights and competition in relationships,

0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 2>and that's a lack of empathy. And again I directed

0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:12.320
<v Speaker 2>here that what these programs often don't fail to identify

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 2>is the empathy as a result of being trolled and

0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>that person at the other end of the trolling behavior.

0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's because I've been on a

0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:23.960
<v Speaker 1>reality TV show or not, but I feel so sorry

0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 1>for like almost every contestant because I know that in

0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:30.240
<v Speaker 1>some capacity there's something that we're not seen or there's

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:32.600
<v Speaker 1>something that's being shown because it is highly produced. And

0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:35.800
<v Speaker 1>I definitely do look at reality TV different now, so

0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:38.400
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be hard for me to talk about

0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:39.960
<v Speaker 1>it in a way like I haven't been on the show,

0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:42.480
<v Speaker 1>but before I did reality TV and I saw a

0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:44.240
<v Speaker 1>little bit more behind the scenes. I don't want to

0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:46.640
<v Speaker 1>admit it, but I was very judgmental. I was constantly like,

0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.520
<v Speaker 1>you're an idiot, you're a moron, You're so toxic, you're disgusting, Like,

0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and I took nobody tell me what you really think

0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 1>for it, you would about you would take because the

0:29:54.800 --> 0:29:57.200
<v Speaker 1>show would show you the character that they want, and

0:29:57.200 --> 0:30:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm putting these characters in invert commerce, but because people

0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:02.240
<v Speaker 1>do look at you like you're just a character and

0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:04.720
<v Speaker 1>they forget that you're a human being, a real human

0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>being that is coming to a type of experiment. But

0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 1>I used to look at them and be so judgy

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:11.480
<v Speaker 1>because I would take at face value what I was shown,

0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:14.480
<v Speaker 1>not knowing there were twenty three more hours worth of

0:30:14.520 --> 0:30:17.960
<v Speaker 1>filming that we didn't see. There's more storylines that we

0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:20.240
<v Speaker 1>didn't see. And so now I'll still look at it

0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:22.719
<v Speaker 1>and say you're stupid, but I'll know that there's more

0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:24.480
<v Speaker 1>to it. I'll be like, that was a dumb comment,

0:30:24.640 --> 0:30:26.960
<v Speaker 1>but there's probably a reason you've said that. So I'm

0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:28.000
<v Speaker 1>trying to be way more.

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Understanding, knowing that what we're shown is not the whole spectrum.

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:33.720
<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting, you know, I was co hosting a

0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:35.560
<v Speaker 2>show called The Last Resort. I don't know if you

0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 2>have ever heard of. That was a Channel nine show,

0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:40.400
<v Speaker 2>and we did the opposite of Married at First Sight.

0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:42.719
<v Speaker 2>So married at first Sight they start off really well,

0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and then the relationships typically explode, whereas last result was

0:30:47.640 --> 0:30:50.840
<v Speaker 2>they have got very fractious relationships and we were trying

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:52.960
<v Speaker 2>to rebuild them. And in the light of married at

0:30:53.040 --> 0:30:56.880
<v Speaker 2>First Sight, we spent an enormous amount of time and

0:30:57.000 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 2>I was sort of the psychologist in charge, and so

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:02.680
<v Speaker 2>we spent an enormous amount of time safeguarding. And you

0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:05.840
<v Speaker 2>may or may not remember, well, you probably don't, but

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:08.280
<v Speaker 2>there was no fallout at all because I was very,

0:31:08.480 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 2>very concerned. We didn't have late night sessions. We guarded

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:15.240
<v Speaker 2>the participants really well. They're really well looked after in

0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 2>their own villas and with great food, great dynamics, and

0:31:19.240 --> 0:31:21.720
<v Speaker 2>so we had no fallout at all. So I think

0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:24.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of this sort of behavior and the characters

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 2>that are created really depend on our duty of care

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:32.160
<v Speaker 2>to the participants. And I think that that's something that's

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:34.760
<v Speaker 2>becoming more and more glaring with the number of suicides

0:31:34.960 --> 0:31:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and the UK are now having a guidance framework put

0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:40.480
<v Speaker 2>in place, and I think that this is going to

0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:45.080
<v Speaker 2>become front and center that if we don't really safeguard

0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:47.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's all very well to have characters that are

0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 2>edited on reality TV, but if we don't seriously take

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>on board our duty of care and follow up psychological counseling.

0:31:56.120 --> 0:31:59.120
<v Speaker 2>But even more than that, it's the pretesting that needs

0:31:59.120 --> 0:32:01.960
<v Speaker 2>to be assessed and none stood, and you know, having

0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:05.720
<v Speaker 2>vulnerable personalities going on TV is something that I take

0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:08.680
<v Speaker 2>very very seriously, and it was something that I spent

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:12.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of time safeguarding. And as a result, none

0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 2>of our participants went into a New Idea or Woman's

0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Day complaining about any mistreatment or male treatment, you know,

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 2>so that to me was a very proud thing that

0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:23.400
<v Speaker 2>they were all well looked after.

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I do think that there's truth to that sort

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:28.440
<v Speaker 1>of old adage where there's smoke, there's fire, and I

0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:30.840
<v Speaker 1>think that, you know, there are definitely some reality TV

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.560
<v Speaker 1>shows that people speak really highly of who come out

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 1>as contestants, and then some that are far more heavily criticized.

0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:39.760
<v Speaker 1>And actually, my partner, Matt, he just finished on Dancing

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.760
<v Speaker 1>with the Stars, which I had never even really thought

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:46.640
<v Speaker 1>about the psychological implications or the social implications. And going

0:32:46.720 --> 0:32:48.320
<v Speaker 1>on a show like Dancing with the Stars, I was like,

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:51.800
<v Speaker 1>everyone would be happy it's dancing gay dance. Could you

0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:54.880
<v Speaker 1>possibly it's the time of your life? You got seven

0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:56.880
<v Speaker 1>hours a day away from your children. I think it's

0:32:56.880 --> 0:33:00.160
<v Speaker 1>fantastic what happened. Nothing negative happened at all, but it

0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 1>was managed really, really well. One of the things I

0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:04.520
<v Speaker 1>was so impressed by was just the follow up care

0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 1>and the check ins with the psychiatrists. And they have

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:10.120
<v Speaker 1>dedicated psychologists on all reality TV shows, but on this

0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 1>one as well, they had so much follow up and

0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:15.960
<v Speaker 1>he had to have these mandatory exit interviews with his

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 1>psychiatrist to make sure that he was in the same

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:22.080
<v Speaker 1>place that they left him before the show basically, and

0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:24.360
<v Speaker 1>even he was a bit like, why do they keep

0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:27.120
<v Speaker 1>wanting to talk to me? I'm fine, but I think

0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:29.440
<v Speaker 1>it's such a necessary part that goes hand in hand

0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:31.320
<v Speaker 1>with reality TV. There is a duty of care and

0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:34.840
<v Speaker 1>responsibility to the people who are participants because I think

0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:39.240
<v Speaker 1>from my own experience, even though everyone thinks you deserve

0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 1>this because you signed up for it, you often don't

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 1>actually know what it is that you're signing up for. Like,

0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:45.440
<v Speaker 1>you sign up because you think it's going to be

0:33:45.440 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 1>a fun experience. You think that you're going to meet

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:49.360
<v Speaker 1>new people, and hey, maybe you'll meet a guy and

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:52.520
<v Speaker 1>you'll fall in love, who knows. But I don't think

0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:55.880
<v Speaker 1>that everybody has the full awareness of what they are

0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:58.640
<v Speaker 1>actually signing up for, and that's you know, there is

0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:00.280
<v Speaker 1>there's a huge part of that as well. Yeah, but

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 1>it's a poor reflection on society as a whole that

0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:06.360
<v Speaker 1>we can say, you signed up for a reality TV

0:34:06.600 --> 0:34:08.040
<v Speaker 1>you knew you were going to get those death threats.

0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:09.640
<v Speaker 1>You knew you were going to get that hate. Reality

0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:12.319
<v Speaker 1>TV should not equal oh, well, you know you're going

0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:14.839
<v Speaker 1>to get death threats. That's a poor reflection on us.

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Look, I couldn't agree more. You know, I was really

0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:22.600
<v Speaker 2>angry about Chappelle Corby going on Essays to exactly your point, Brittany,

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:25.319
<v Speaker 2>that it's all very well saying that adults they've got

0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:30.640
<v Speaker 2>informed consent, but when you're not mentally in a well place,

0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:36.319
<v Speaker 2>it's a very predatory cluster of behaviors that I think

0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:39.799
<v Speaker 2>some producers pounce on to get ratings, obviously, and I

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:43.320
<v Speaker 2>think Chappelle Krby was a perfect example of that. I

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:45.600
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you watched says we did when she

0:34:45.680 --> 0:34:47.360
<v Speaker 2>got a one on one with the SAS team in

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:50.480
<v Speaker 2>the interviewing room and she just said, I think words

0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:53.560
<v Speaker 2>to the effect of I'm not well, I need help.

0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Well goose bumps.

0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:59.759
<v Speaker 2>As a psychologist, I went, what the hell and how

0:34:59.800 --> 0:35:00.680
<v Speaker 2>did you do you get assist?

0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:02.719
<v Speaker 1>There's so different parts of this that I was just

0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 1>uncomfortable by, And like, I get it. I get that

0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:07.279
<v Speaker 1>what the training that it's depicting. I get the emphasis

0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:10.440
<v Speaker 1>and this idea that you can kind of recreate. I

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 1>think the big onus on that show was that people

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:15.960
<v Speaker 1>were going in who had compromised stories, you know, their

0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:19.000
<v Speaker 1>compromised past stories, whether they'd done something where they wanted

0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:23.360
<v Speaker 1>to redeem themselves socially, and so by doing this hard training,

0:35:23.400 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 1>they had the opportunity of showing their vulnerability and that

0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:29.480
<v Speaker 1>way they can redeem themselves socially in the eye of

0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.799
<v Speaker 1>the audience. Which it's an obscure path, but I mean

0:35:32.840 --> 0:35:34.320
<v Speaker 1>it seemed to work for a lot of people. A

0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:36.839
<v Speaker 1>lot of these people had the opportunity to show their

0:35:36.920 --> 0:35:40.239
<v Speaker 1>vulnerable sides and that's what changed public perception about them.

0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 1>And actually that kind of leads me into a whole

0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:44.759
<v Speaker 1>other question on this, But what do you think are

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:47.560
<v Speaker 1>the positives then as a contestant going on a show

0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:49.960
<v Speaker 1>or on a reality TV show, or even from the

0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 1>viewer's perspective watching a reality TV show. We hear so

0:35:53.880 --> 0:35:56.680
<v Speaker 1>many of the negative things that can come from reality TV,

0:35:56.800 --> 0:35:59.240
<v Speaker 1>but I genuinely think that there are so many positive

0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:01.560
<v Speaker 1>things that can come from reality TV as well. And

0:36:01.600 --> 0:36:03.879
<v Speaker 1>I'd love to know your opinion and perspective on that.

0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you met me Laura so and we have

0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:10.600
<v Speaker 1>a podcast, baby, we have life on Cut was Born Past.

0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:14.160
<v Speaker 2>There's a positive look, I think, and it's a really

0:36:14.160 --> 0:36:16.239
<v Speaker 2>good point. I think there are lots of positives, you know,

0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:18.240
<v Speaker 2>some of those of what we've talked about for the observers,

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:21.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, the empathy, the social interaction, comparing and affirming,

0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:25.600
<v Speaker 2>understanding or gas lighting behaviors for instance, getting cues about

0:36:25.680 --> 0:36:29.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, inappropriate behavior, consensual behavior, et cetera. There's lots

0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:31.680
<v Speaker 2>of cues that I think the audience can actually get from.

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Can I just quickly finish off about Chappelle? So the

0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:36.080
<v Speaker 2>only thing I could come up with was that you've

0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:39.320
<v Speaker 2>got forty thousand dollars, and perhaps that forty thousand dollars

0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:43.880
<v Speaker 2>great was for therapy or counseling or whatever she needed.

0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 2>So there's a plus that if there's no other income

0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:50.399
<v Speaker 2>source or limited income source, there's a really good way

0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:53.720
<v Speaker 2>of perhaps generating some income, getting your self esteem, batting

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:57.200
<v Speaker 2>and order redemption. As you rightly said, there are certainly

0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:59.040
<v Speaker 2>benefits to you know, to business. If you want to

0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:01.880
<v Speaker 2>go on reality TV to increase your business profile, you know,

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:03.600
<v Speaker 2>you might want to be enacting. You might have a

0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 2>small business, and this expands the viewing audience. So you've

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:09.319
<v Speaker 2>prepared to take those sorts of risks. It might be

0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:11.480
<v Speaker 2>because I've been lonely for ten years and I've never

0:37:11.520 --> 0:37:13.680
<v Speaker 2>been in a relationship. Well, I've got nothing to lose,

0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:16.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, whatever character they carve out for me. I mean,

0:37:16.680 --> 0:37:20.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting the opportunity to experience something which I otherwise

0:37:21.080 --> 0:37:23.320
<v Speaker 2>would never have access to if not for the development

0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.440
<v Speaker 2>of reality TV. For some people it would enhance their

0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:29.200
<v Speaker 2>self esteem. They get feedback that they look gorgeous. So

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:31.320
<v Speaker 2>I think there are lots of benefits.

0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:31.800
<v Speaker 1>In relation to Chappelle.

0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:34.800
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a prime example of when we say redemption,

0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:39.040
<v Speaker 2>because Australia had this one idea of Chappelle. You know,

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:41.360
<v Speaker 2>for the last however many years, we knew that she

0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:43.960
<v Speaker 2>was accused of drug smuglin she was in prison, and

0:37:43.960 --> 0:37:46.840
<v Speaker 2>that's what we knew about. That was literally it now

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:49.520
<v Speaker 2>we saw her on and whilst it wasn't good for

0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:52.200
<v Speaker 2>her mental health, it has done something really great for

0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:55.440
<v Speaker 2>her in the public eye. I do believe everybody gets

0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:58.320
<v Speaker 2>a second chance to say who they are and shape

0:37:58.360 --> 0:37:58.800
<v Speaker 2>their life.

0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.160
<v Speaker 1>But we would never have seen another side to Chappelle.

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:04.000
<v Speaker 1>And we only know this because Laura's partner, Matt, was

0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:05.719
<v Speaker 1>on Dancing with the Stars. Chappelle was on Dancing with

0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the Stars too, and Matt just sung her praises. He

0:38:09.560 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 1>was like, she was the nicest person on there. She

0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:14.120
<v Speaker 1>was so generous and it wasn't for show. She would

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:16.640
<v Speaker 1>go and give food to the homeless after the show,

0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:18.279
<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't in front of anyone. It wasn't so

0:38:18.320 --> 0:38:20.520
<v Speaker 1>anyone would talk about it. She was just a really

0:38:20.560 --> 0:38:23.399
<v Speaker 1>good human And you know, then we went I spoke

0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:25.120
<v Speaker 1>about on the podcast and put that out to however

0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:29.560
<v Speaker 1>many people listen, and we've now been shown Chappelle in

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:31.360
<v Speaker 1>a different light for who she is on the inside.

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:33.640
<v Speaker 1>And that doesn't excuse anything she may or may not

0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:35.600
<v Speaker 1>have done in the past. But it's just a prime

0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:39.080
<v Speaker 1>example of what reality TV can do in terms of

0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 1>showing Australia and showing the world who you actually are.

0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:45.279
<v Speaker 1>We always hope that we're the exception. Like I know

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:47.160
<v Speaker 1>when I signed up for The Bachelor, and I think

0:38:47.200 --> 0:38:49.440
<v Speaker 1>that this would probably ring true for anybody who has

0:38:49.440 --> 0:38:52.239
<v Speaker 1>signed up for a reality TV show. You know that

0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:54.600
<v Speaker 1>there is a possibility that you could come off badly

0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:57.120
<v Speaker 1>and that it could end poorly, But you always hope

0:38:57.160 --> 0:38:59.680
<v Speaker 1>as a person that you're the exception. You always hope that, well,

0:38:59.680 --> 0:39:01.719
<v Speaker 1>maybe this will be my chance to meet someone, and

0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:03.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe this has been my chance to you know, put

0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:05.719
<v Speaker 1>my life in a different trajectory. And I think for

0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:08.239
<v Speaker 1>me personally, I was at a point where I was

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:10.840
<v Speaker 1>a bit bored in my life. I was making the

0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:14.200
<v Speaker 1>same relationship mistakes over and over and only in reflection

0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:16.360
<v Speaker 1>now I can see, like why I had that pattern

0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:21.080
<v Speaker 1>behavior in my relationship. We've got a whole podcast.

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm sitting here hoping I'm going to message this out

0:39:25.400 --> 0:39:27.520
<v Speaker 2>of we might not to have.

0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Private therapy session. I was really codependent in my relationships,

0:39:30.960 --> 0:39:33.200
<v Speaker 1>and I really kind of just monkey branched into the

0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:36.640
<v Speaker 1>same thing, just fully put myself and the same thing

0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:38.920
<v Speaker 1>into the into a new person who is the exact

0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 1>carbon copy of the old person. And reality TV for

0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:44.320
<v Speaker 1>me was a chance to break that cycle because I

0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:47.239
<v Speaker 1>met someone who really wasn't someone I would have dated

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:49.400
<v Speaker 1>in the real world, Like my partner now is probably

0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.279
<v Speaker 1>someone who had I met, I would have kind of thought, Oh, yeah,

0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:55.359
<v Speaker 1>he's super handsome, but he's way too nice and he's

0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:58.160
<v Speaker 1>not a challenge and he likes me too much, and

0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:00.120
<v Speaker 1>why is he like and this is gonna sound dune,

0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:01.799
<v Speaker 1>but every girl has done this. Oh my god, why

0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:04.320
<v Speaker 1>is he so obsessed with me? Like, oh, boring done that?

0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Because they have. But because there was a bit of

0:40:09.040 --> 0:40:13.280
<v Speaker 1>a challenge in actually meeting him, and it was interesting

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:15.560
<v Speaker 1>and it was fun, and it exposed me to someone

0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:17.560
<v Speaker 1>who I would never have really connected with or met

0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:19.759
<v Speaker 1>properly in the real world. And then I realized just

0:40:19.800 --> 0:40:21.759
<v Speaker 1>how much I loved him and wanted to be with him,

0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:24.480
<v Speaker 1>and how our lives are intertwined. And I guess for

0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:27.160
<v Speaker 1>me that was a huge positive because it gave me

0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:29.560
<v Speaker 1>some distance from my own personal life to reflect on

0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:31.880
<v Speaker 1>the things I was doing wrong. Like it fully takes

0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:35.160
<v Speaker 1>you out of your normal life. It disrupts everything and

0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:38.440
<v Speaker 1>you are forced, especially in something like The Bachelor or

0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:41.759
<v Speaker 1>in a love related reality TV show, you have to

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.600
<v Speaker 1>spend so much time being introspective and thinking about your

0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:47.640
<v Speaker 1>feelings and thinking about what you want, and nobody spends

0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:50.920
<v Speaker 1>three months just examining themselves and thinking about what they

0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:53.960
<v Speaker 1>want for their relationship. We'll always have these other distractions.

0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:56.000
<v Speaker 1>And for me that was so invaluable.

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:58.920
<v Speaker 2>And what about the intensity of having so many other

0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:00.960
<v Speaker 2>women around you? That part of it was good for

0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:04.000
<v Speaker 2>you because you could be mindful, But how that like

0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:07.239
<v Speaker 2>look in that social comparison theory sort of blows my mind.

0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:08.560
<v Speaker 2>To be on the women.

0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Together, it's a bit maddening, and I think you have

0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:13.239
<v Speaker 1>to be a pretty strong person to be okay with it.

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.759
<v Speaker 1>For me, the reason why I was okay with the

0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 1>whole dating him and a whole lot of other people

0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:21.280
<v Speaker 1>dating him was because I was like, well, it's pretty

0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:23.759
<v Speaker 1>much the same as me and Sydney. Anyway. A lot

0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:25.920
<v Speaker 1>of the guys I'd dated in the past cheated on

0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:28.880
<v Speaker 1>me and I'd been sharing them without knowing, So I

0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:30.840
<v Speaker 1>was like, well, if this is happening to me in

0:41:30.880 --> 0:41:32.759
<v Speaker 1>the real world, but I'm being lied to, at least

0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:34.920
<v Speaker 1>this is happening to my face, and I'm okay with it,

0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.439
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm accepting of what's happening and nothing is going

0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:40.040
<v Speaker 1>on behind closed doors. So I actually felt a lot

0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:42.400
<v Speaker 1>safer in that environment because I was like, I know

0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:45.120
<v Speaker 1>exactly what's happening, and that was like a sort of

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:47.520
<v Speaker 1>transparency and honesty that I was not receiving in my

0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:51.480
<v Speaker 1>normal relationships. No, my ex was marrying two people simultaneously

0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:53.360
<v Speaker 1>whilst cheating with eight other women. So this was like

0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:58.040
<v Speaker 1>a holiday for me. I was like maybe, I was like,

0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:02.319
<v Speaker 1>this is fantastic, Sammy. The dating game is vicious. It

0:42:02.440 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 1>is vicious.

0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:06.160
<v Speaker 2>I think we need to have a talk about your

0:42:06.200 --> 0:42:08.239
<v Speaker 2>capacity to perceive what's going on.

0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh, we have in all seriousness, and I think that

0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:12.720
<v Speaker 1>this is something we do get a lot of questions

0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and like it's something that people do need to consider

0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:16.200
<v Speaker 1>when they want to go on reality TV. For me,

0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:19.719
<v Speaker 1>I was lucky, and I can say this. I was

0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's because what I went through in the past,

0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:23.879
<v Speaker 1>but as a human and I've been traveling the world.

0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:25.320
<v Speaker 1>I just got back from a three year around the

0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:28.439
<v Speaker 1>world trip. I was fiercely independent. I had been through

0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:31.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of shit and I was really thick skinned,

0:42:32.440 --> 0:42:34.560
<v Speaker 1>water off a duck's back a lot, and I felt

0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:36.960
<v Speaker 1>going into that situation. Yes I knew what it was,

0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:39.720
<v Speaker 1>but I wasn't worried in the slightest because I thought,

0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:41.680
<v Speaker 1>you know what, this is going to be a really

0:42:41.680 --> 0:42:44.479
<v Speaker 1>great experience. And I feel like I've been through worse.

0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:46.759
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't. I didn't have a sheltered upbringing, I wasn't

0:42:46.760 --> 0:42:50.440
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in cotton wool. And I literally found in all honesty.

0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:52.080
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know how many people can say this.

0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:54.840
<v Speaker 1>I found it so easy. The stresses didn't really bother me,

0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:57.200
<v Speaker 1>The other women dating Nick didn't bother me because I

0:42:57.280 --> 0:43:01.120
<v Speaker 1>was able to compartmentalize what it was, why I was there,

0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and just just focus on myself. But when people write

0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:06.120
<v Speaker 1>to me and say should I go on the show

0:43:06.239 --> 0:43:08.719
<v Speaker 1>or not? My first thing is you need to be

0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:14.200
<v Speaker 1>so so okay in yourself and thick skinned. But from

0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:17.480
<v Speaker 1>a psychological perspective, what would you say to people that

0:43:17.480 --> 0:43:19.560
<v Speaker 1>are thinking of not just a bachelor, but like any

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:21.719
<v Speaker 1>reality TV show? What would what's your advice?

0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:24.520
<v Speaker 2>I think the very first thing you have again that

0:43:24.640 --> 0:43:28.160
<v Speaker 2>being introspective, I think is a really good point. What

0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:31.200
<v Speaker 2>are your vulnerabilities? And you know, you know, Laura, you

0:43:31.239 --> 0:43:33.839
<v Speaker 2>just talked about you know, codependent relationships and you could

0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:37.560
<v Speaker 2>see a pattern unfolding. I think if you don't understand

0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:40.360
<v Speaker 2>your vulnerabilities when you go in and do an audition,

0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:43.279
<v Speaker 2>because what is it that differentiates all the men and

0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:47.240
<v Speaker 2>women who audition. It's their mental health. There's lots of blonde,

0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:50.920
<v Speaker 2>pretty girls, there's lots of articulate women, there's lots of everything.

0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:55.600
<v Speaker 2>But what really differentiates people is their mental health. So

0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:58.680
<v Speaker 2>if you feel that there's a vulnerability, I would have

0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:02.839
<v Speaker 2>really red flash about going on, because that's what the

0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:08.719
<v Speaker 2>producers will hook into. And I can tell you quite unethically,

0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:11.719
<v Speaker 2>I know of psychologists who've been on the shows who

0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:17.719
<v Speaker 2>present the results to producers and they're effectively ignored. So

0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:21.320
<v Speaker 2>the best investment is not blaming producers for their selection,

0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:26.520
<v Speaker 2>but it's you being diligent and being introspective and being

0:44:26.600 --> 0:44:30.320
<v Speaker 2>guarded about what your vulnerabilities are, because if you don't

0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:33.160
<v Speaker 2>know them, this show or any show that you go on,

0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:37.120
<v Speaker 2>is not going to fix them. They're going to magnify them.

0:44:37.320 --> 0:44:41.080
<v Speaker 2>They're going to exploit them, and then you're the one

0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:44.080
<v Speaker 2>that's going to suffer as a result. So anyone who's

0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:46.920
<v Speaker 2>going I think as a mental health practitioner would be

0:44:47.400 --> 0:44:51.759
<v Speaker 2>understand what your vulnerabilities are and is this show because

0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:54.520
<v Speaker 2>we've got enough evidence now of the outcomes of reality show.

0:44:54.520 --> 0:44:57.560
<v Speaker 2>We know trolling happens, we know it affects people's mental health.

0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:00.839
<v Speaker 2>We know that it can actually trigger suicide. I mean,

0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:02.440
<v Speaker 2>the show in and of itself is not going to

0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:06.680
<v Speaker 2>cause suicide. There's obviously issues well established beforehand. But it

0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:10.040
<v Speaker 2>does impact on the life of many people. So you know,

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 2>we've got enough evidence that that exists. So you now

0:45:12.800 --> 0:45:16.120
<v Speaker 2>need to be smart enough to say, right, what is

0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:19.600
<v Speaker 2>the possible outcome for me. You may not be fully

0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:21.799
<v Speaker 2>aware of what it's like to be trolled, you know,

0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:24.120
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have a clue what it's like to be trolled,

0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:26.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, for weeks and weeks on end. But I

0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:29.399
<v Speaker 2>think you just need to be very introspective about how

0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:31.560
<v Speaker 2>would it impact on your mental health. It's a mental

0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:33.960
<v Speaker 2>health that drives it. That's the thing that the producers

0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:34.479
<v Speaker 2>hook into.

0:45:34.880 --> 0:45:37.080
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to say one thing back on what

0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you had said earlier, Brit, in regards to how easy

0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:42.279
<v Speaker 1>you found the process. I don't want to gloss over

0:45:42.320 --> 0:45:44.719
<v Speaker 1>that because the reason why Britt and I actually met

0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:47.200
<v Speaker 1>was because there was a period where she wasn't coping

0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:49.520
<v Speaker 1>with it, and I reached out to her as somebody

0:45:49.560 --> 0:45:52.080
<v Speaker 1>who was in my position from the year prior. And

0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:53.960
<v Speaker 1>this is actually how we met. And I think if

0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:55.640
<v Speaker 1>you guys have listened to the podcast for a long time,

0:45:55.640 --> 0:45:58.120
<v Speaker 1>you might have heard this story. But Britt was copying

0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:01.319
<v Speaker 1>some serious backlash online and I just knew what that

0:46:01.360 --> 0:46:03.960
<v Speaker 1>felt like, and I knew what it's like to feel

0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:07.239
<v Speaker 1>like nobody wants your relationship to work out, and like,

0:46:07.480 --> 0:46:09.239
<v Speaker 1>at that time, I didn't know whether or not the

0:46:09.239 --> 0:46:14.239
<v Speaker 1>Honey Badger had chosen Nick. I thought, sorry, choose Nick,

0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:18.640
<v Speaker 1>chose himself. I didn't know whether or not he had

0:46:18.719 --> 0:46:22.080
<v Speaker 1>chosen Britt. And I was like, it's such awful, awful

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and soul crushing feeling to think that nobody who's watching

0:46:25.960 --> 0:46:28.160
<v Speaker 1>the show wants you to be with that person, and

0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:30.000
<v Speaker 1>you're with that person, you know, like the shows I

0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:32.520
<v Speaker 1>are airing on TV, and that's actually your boyfriend. So

0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 1>I reached out to Britain and I was like, look,

0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:36.920
<v Speaker 1>I know that you think that everyone hates you. I

0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:39.520
<v Speaker 1>just want you to know that everyone doesn't hate you,

0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:41.880
<v Speaker 1>and the small portion of people who are writing your

0:46:41.880 --> 0:46:45.080
<v Speaker 1>messages or they're contacting you, or they're whatever they're saying,

0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:47.799
<v Speaker 1>like they really don't matter, and it goes away very

0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:50.840
<v Speaker 1>very quickly, like it's a very short lived amount of aggression.

0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:53.200
<v Speaker 1>And that's when Britt cork I was like, here's my number,

0:46:53.239 --> 0:46:54.400
<v Speaker 1>call me if you need to have a chat. It

0:46:54.440 --> 0:46:56.320
<v Speaker 1>was like two minutes later and she was in tears,

0:46:56.840 --> 0:47:00.120
<v Speaker 1>absolutely beside herself. So I think it's one thing to say, oh,

0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:02.880
<v Speaker 1>it was a great experience, but we tend to forget

0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:06.160
<v Speaker 1>the bad bits. And that's true for Eddie relationship, it's

0:47:06.160 --> 0:47:08.880
<v Speaker 1>true for Eddie trauma, but kind of suppress it. So

0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:11.880
<v Speaker 1>I think even though overall I would say my experience

0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:13.640
<v Speaker 1>is great, and I think Britt would also say her

0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:16.440
<v Speaker 1>experience was great, we both have parts of that experience

0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:20.120
<v Speaker 1>which were extremely challenging. Yeah, what I want to say is,

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:22.160
<v Speaker 1>and I was thinking about this just before you said that, Laura,

0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:23.759
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I just made that sound way too

0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:25.279
<v Speaker 1>easy and way too good. When I was like, it

0:47:25.320 --> 0:47:27.880
<v Speaker 1>was great, it was really great for me, But it

0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:30.600
<v Speaker 1>did And this is what highlighted this thought, Sandy, was

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:34.239
<v Speaker 1>when you said, what is your vulnerability? And that did

0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:37.799
<v Speaker 1>happen for me? My vulnerability was this feeling of never

0:47:37.800 --> 0:47:40.279
<v Speaker 1>been enough. I had been in this no relationship for

0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:42.879
<v Speaker 1>ten years nearly or at the time, sorry it seven

0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:46.000
<v Speaker 1>or eight years, and my last relationship was with this sociopath.

0:47:46.760 --> 0:47:49.680
<v Speaker 1>I had this feeling of like not being enough. I

0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:52.040
<v Speaker 1>was like, why doesn't anyone want to date me? You picked?

0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:54.640
<v Speaker 1>We'll have to talk about it again, you can analyze me.

0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:56.799
<v Speaker 1>But that was definitely brought out the whole. That was

0:47:56.800 --> 0:47:59.239
<v Speaker 1>what they angled, like why don't you think anyone's wanted

0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:00.920
<v Speaker 1>to date you? For so long? And then over the

0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:04.200
<v Speaker 1>three months, I was like wow, like is there something

0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:05.799
<v Speaker 1>not right with me? But I was like no, this

0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:08.480
<v Speaker 1>connection with Nick is so great, Like I honestly was like,

0:48:08.560 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 1>this is it. This is why I've been single so

0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:12.080
<v Speaker 1>long since, why these things have happened because i'mupposed to

0:48:12.080 --> 0:48:15.680
<v Speaker 1>be with Nick. And then Nick dunked me at the

0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:18.560
<v Speaker 1>end and didn't pick anyone, and then that was heightened.

0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:21.760
<v Speaker 1>So my vulnerability of not been enough for no bachelor

0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:23.799
<v Speaker 1>in Australia has ever done that to be like, wow,

0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:26.680
<v Speaker 1>there's something really fundamentally wrong with me. If I'm the

0:48:26.680 --> 0:48:29.720
<v Speaker 1>first person that can't even walk away with someone happily

0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:32.960
<v Speaker 1>at the end, So that definitely is something you need

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:34.960
<v Speaker 1>to consider. I watch your vulnerability, it will be brought out.

0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:37.600
<v Speaker 1>And then for me, the hardest part was actually after

0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:40.839
<v Speaker 1>the show. Like Laura said, it wasn't the environment so much.

0:48:40.920 --> 0:48:42.560
<v Speaker 1>That was quite nice for me. A lot of the

0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:44.600
<v Speaker 1>girls were complaining about being in a bunk bed and

0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:46.319
<v Speaker 1>they'd never been away from home. I was like, I've

0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:49.640
<v Speaker 1>been in a hostel for three years. This is like luxury,

0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:52.799
<v Speaker 1>even making me breakfast. The hardest part was after, and

0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:54.840
<v Speaker 1>it was the trolling, and like Laura said, like that

0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:57.080
<v Speaker 1>for me, I'd never experienced that. I like to think

0:48:57.200 --> 0:48:59.239
<v Speaker 1>of myself as a good person, and I'm like, how

0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:01.759
<v Speaker 1>can these people be telling me to kill myself or

0:49:01.880 --> 0:49:04.000
<v Speaker 1>telling me how ugly I am and that's why I'm single?

0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:05.640
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, how can they do that when

0:49:05.680 --> 0:49:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I know I'm a good person, but they look at

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:08.920
<v Speaker 1>you like you're a character.

0:49:09.360 --> 0:49:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Like it is the most absurd reaction. And so of course,

0:49:14.000 --> 0:49:17.120
<v Speaker 2>how I would self soothe from that is saying they're

0:49:17.160 --> 0:49:21.720
<v Speaker 2>mentally unwell. It's not normal conversation, it's not a normal reaction.

0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:25.440
<v Speaker 2>So you know, there's this dissociation that you would then

0:49:25.480 --> 0:49:28.680
<v Speaker 2>have to create I imagine is saying what has gone

0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:31.759
<v Speaker 2>wrong with those people? Because that's what strikes me. It's

0:49:31.840 --> 0:49:35.480
<v Speaker 2>just so abnormal to wish someone dead from a reality show.

0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:38.640
<v Speaker 2>How did you reconcile? You know, you sort of became

0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:42.120
<v Speaker 2>very close with Nick with the fallout from all that

0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:45.000
<v Speaker 2>that he didn't choose anyone? How did you reconcile that?

0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:47.320
<v Speaker 1>I didn't for a while. I still just for a

0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:49.680
<v Speaker 1>long time thought I wasn't good enough and there's something

0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:51.840
<v Speaker 1>wrong with me, and that I needed to sort something out.

0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:54.920
<v Speaker 1>And it's funny because deep down I'm like, there is

0:49:55.000 --> 0:49:57.120
<v Speaker 1>nothing wrong with you, Like I know there's not, but

0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:59.000
<v Speaker 1>there's still this stole or am I right? Was like,

0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:00.480
<v Speaker 1>you're great, there's nothing wrong with you, and the one

0:50:00.520 --> 0:50:02.239
<v Speaker 1>on your left is like, well, why the hell does

0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:04.040
<v Speaker 1>no one ever want to be with you? So that

0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:05.719
<v Speaker 1>was something I battled for a long time. It was

0:50:05.719 --> 0:50:08.520
<v Speaker 1>probably like another eighteen months after when I started to

0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:11.600
<v Speaker 1>regain my confidence again and realize that.

0:50:11.600 --> 0:50:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Did you say eighteen months?

0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:16.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's probably three years ago now it Yeah, yeah,

0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:18.799
<v Speaker 1>the show was three years ago. But I mean, and

0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:21.600
<v Speaker 1>I think that that's why I'm really glad you brought

0:50:21.600 --> 0:50:23.480
<v Speaker 1>that up, Brit because I do think it sounded a

0:50:23.520 --> 0:50:26.480
<v Speaker 1>bit oversimplified of like everything was awesome when you're part

0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:30.160
<v Speaker 1>of a team. That really there was a lot of

0:50:30.440 --> 0:50:33.000
<v Speaker 1>flow on from your experience, and I remember having many

0:50:33.040 --> 0:50:36.600
<v Speaker 1>conversations with you before meeting Jordan where you said, I

0:50:36.600 --> 0:50:38.399
<v Speaker 1>don't feel like I'm good enough. I feel like there's

0:50:38.440 --> 0:50:41.200
<v Speaker 1>something wrong with me. A lot of that anguish had

0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:43.720
<v Speaker 1>come from the show, and it had come from public rejection,

0:50:43.800 --> 0:50:46.520
<v Speaker 1>which is a huge thing to deal with. And also

0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:48.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like I also feel for the people who

0:50:48.600 --> 0:50:51.000
<v Speaker 1>go through the Bachelor and the same cycle that we've

0:50:51.040 --> 0:50:53.880
<v Speaker 1>been with and they do get chosen and the relationship

0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:56.600
<v Speaker 1>doesn't work out, because going through a public fallout in

0:50:56.600 --> 0:50:58.480
<v Speaker 1>a relationship is huge as well. Like, that's one of

0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:01.120
<v Speaker 1>my biggest fears is Matt and I. We always say

0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:03.000
<v Speaker 1>to each other we're gonna be together forever, But if

0:51:03.040 --> 0:51:06.400
<v Speaker 1>it didn't happen and we weren't together forever, having a

0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:09.000
<v Speaker 1>really public breakup is something that I have a lot

0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:11.080
<v Speaker 1>of fear attached to that, Like, that's really something I

0:51:11.080 --> 0:51:13.200
<v Speaker 1>don't think I would handle very well. But just coming

0:51:13.239 --> 0:51:14.719
<v Speaker 1>back to something you said, and I think it was

0:51:14.800 --> 0:51:16.920
<v Speaker 1>really powerful because I had not thought of it in

0:51:16.960 --> 0:51:20.240
<v Speaker 1>that manner at all. But you're so correct the idea

0:51:20.280 --> 0:51:22.680
<v Speaker 1>of like, the most important thing if you're considering doing

0:51:22.719 --> 0:51:26.120
<v Speaker 1>reality TV is being hyper aware of your vulnerabilities. I

0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:28.560
<v Speaker 1>had never considered that that is what sets you apart.

0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:29.840
<v Speaker 1>And one of the big thing that we say on

0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:33.560
<v Speaker 1>this podcast is that there's power in vulnerability. There's power

0:51:33.560 --> 0:51:36.400
<v Speaker 1>in showing people how you feel, because when you express

0:51:36.440 --> 0:51:39.520
<v Speaker 1>yourself and you explain your feelings, it allows someone to

0:51:39.560 --> 0:51:41.839
<v Speaker 1>be softer towards you. It allows someone to actually reach

0:51:41.880 --> 0:51:43.520
<v Speaker 1>out and help you if you're in need of help,

0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:46.480
<v Speaker 1>instead of being like, I'm fine, everything's fine. I think

0:51:46.520 --> 0:51:48.640
<v Speaker 1>we sometimes tend to do that as women. We put

0:51:48.680 --> 0:51:50.000
<v Speaker 1>up a bit of a front and say that we're

0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:52.919
<v Speaker 1>fine instead of expressing our feelings. However, when it comes

0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:56.399
<v Speaker 1>to reality TV, not just your feelings, but if there

0:51:56.400 --> 0:51:59.160
<v Speaker 1>are some things that don't bring out the best in you,

0:51:59.239 --> 0:52:02.480
<v Speaker 1>if there are different situations where you know, actually, I'm

0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 1>not my best self when someone speaks to me like that,

0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:07.799
<v Speaker 1>or I'm not my best self when I'm overtired and

0:52:07.840 --> 0:52:10.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm overworked and I'm feeling a little bit out of control.

0:52:10.880 --> 0:52:14.360
<v Speaker 1>I think be really super hyper vigilant on those situations,

0:52:14.400 --> 0:52:16.080
<v Speaker 1>because that's when I think that you can really lose

0:52:16.120 --> 0:52:19.160
<v Speaker 1>yourself in a reality TV setting. If you're considering signing

0:52:19.239 --> 0:52:20.240
<v Speaker 1>up and doing a show.

0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:22.759
<v Speaker 2>I think that's beautifully well seen, and I think we

0:52:22.920 --> 0:52:26.320
<v Speaker 2>forget that that aftermath that means you become hyper vigilant,

0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:29.799
<v Speaker 2>hyper aroused. We have sleepless nights, et cetera, et cetera,

0:52:29.920 --> 0:52:31.759
<v Speaker 2>And I think that some of these shows, if you're

0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:35.000
<v Speaker 2>not aware of your vulnerabilities, then you are at greater

0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:38.879
<v Speaker 2>risk of suffering from PTSD as a result of going

0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:39.440
<v Speaker 2>on this show.

0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I hey, I wanted to bring it back to something

0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:45.040
<v Speaker 1>a bit more positive because we've just got gone in.

0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:49.000
<v Speaker 1>But I've read a lot of research studies that have said, well,

0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:52.240
<v Speaker 1>A firstly, more than fifty percent this is US based,

0:52:52.239 --> 0:52:55.480
<v Speaker 1>but more than fifty percent of the population tunes into

0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:58.399
<v Speaker 1>reality TV than not. So more people watching reality TV

0:52:58.480 --> 0:53:03.400
<v Speaker 1>than not. And these people are watching it because watching

0:53:03.680 --> 0:53:09.640
<v Speaker 1>drama has been shown to destress a person. Why is that?

0:53:09.760 --> 0:53:12.680
<v Speaker 1>Why is if we're really stress and anxious, do we

0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:14.399
<v Speaker 1>want it from the day? Do we walk in, put

0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:18.080
<v Speaker 1>the reality TV on and then feel better? It's because well, well, well,

0:53:18.120 --> 0:53:20.080
<v Speaker 1>you know what, my life is fucked, but their life

0:53:20.120 --> 0:53:22.200
<v Speaker 1>is way more fucked than my. Is that it? And

0:53:22.239 --> 0:53:23.040
<v Speaker 1>I feel good?

0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:27.160
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly it. And I have this summary pie. You

0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:32.680
<v Speaker 2>don't mention a pie. There's three real reasons for that. Escapism, identification,

0:53:33.280 --> 0:53:35.520
<v Speaker 2>and a potential of what I could do on the show.

0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:37.960
<v Speaker 2>So that's that's what I think actually drives it. So

0:53:38.000 --> 0:53:41.560
<v Speaker 2>the destressing is escapism. So if I'm feeling up time,

0:53:41.800 --> 0:53:44.319
<v Speaker 2>if I've had a shit day at work, I come

0:53:44.360 --> 0:53:49.440
<v Speaker 2>home and I watch all these lunatics behaving and crazy.

0:53:49.200 --> 0:53:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Comparing why not Johnny shore over here? Come on, I'm Joe.

0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:55.480
<v Speaker 2>David personally girls, you know, But that's how you sort

0:53:55.480 --> 0:53:56.920
<v Speaker 2>of say, oh, they're luded to do I think you

0:53:56.920 --> 0:53:59.760
<v Speaker 2>even use the words, oh they're morons, they're stupid, they're crazy.

0:53:59.800 --> 0:54:02.400
<v Speaker 2>So I'm catching up on your words. Bridge don't know

0:54:02.719 --> 0:54:05.359
<v Speaker 2>when you're distress and you go, oh, my life is

0:54:05.400 --> 0:54:08.400
<v Speaker 2>not too bad. These people are far worse than what

0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:10.880
<v Speaker 2>I am. So I think that it gives that a

0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:13.480
<v Speaker 2>sense of the world is okay now, And.

0:54:13.400 --> 0:54:16.040
<v Speaker 1>We don't realize to use our brain, do we Absolutely

0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:18.000
<v Speaker 1>it's like we're not It's like our brain has a

0:54:18.040 --> 0:54:20.600
<v Speaker 1>break because it's just this easy watching that we're not

0:54:20.640 --> 0:54:23.640
<v Speaker 1>really thinking. Absolutely. I kind of challenged that I don't

0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:26.040
<v Speaker 1>know if we because like, I think that for us,

0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:29.080
<v Speaker 1>some of the big shows that we've watched, like and like,

0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:31.960
<v Speaker 1>it's all about human behavior and human interactions. We've had

0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:35.080
<v Speaker 1>some really profound conversations off the back of watching reality

0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:38.479
<v Speaker 1>TV where we've gone, Okay, that characteristic is gaslighting. Let's

0:54:38.520 --> 0:54:41.440
<v Speaker 1>have a big unpack and a conversation around gaslighting. Like,

0:54:41.560 --> 0:54:44.680
<v Speaker 1>we have had some really thought provoking conversations, and I

0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:46.839
<v Speaker 1>think with some of the reality TV shows are coming

0:54:46.840 --> 0:54:51.080
<v Speaker 1>out recently, it's actually lending us to really dissect and

0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:53.680
<v Speaker 1>look at human behavior. So I don't know if I

0:54:53.719 --> 0:54:57.320
<v Speaker 1>switch off. That's after the fact, when you're literally sitting

0:54:57.360 --> 0:54:59.160
<v Speaker 1>down watching like I watch your stories. When you watch

0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:01.239
<v Speaker 1>reality TV, you're having a great time, you're having a life,

0:55:01.280 --> 0:55:03.839
<v Speaker 1>if you're having a wine, like if your wind down,

0:55:03.880 --> 0:55:06.640
<v Speaker 1>and then the conversation stem from it. After one of my.

0:55:06.719 --> 0:55:08.680
<v Speaker 2>Daughters said to me and I asked her the question,

0:55:08.719 --> 0:55:10.600
<v Speaker 2>what do you think you get out of watching reality TV?

0:55:11.280 --> 0:55:13.680
<v Speaker 2>And she said, comedic relief. You know you're stressed and

0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:16.280
<v Speaker 2>you get there and also when you come home watching

0:55:16.320 --> 0:55:19.440
<v Speaker 2>reality TV, whether it's Dancing with the Stars or SAS

0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:22.480
<v Speaker 2>or Love Island or whatever, there is a certain voyeurism.

0:55:22.719 --> 0:55:25.000
<v Speaker 2>It gives you an opportunity to explore and look at

0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:28.080
<v Speaker 2>people in a way that you would never ever get

0:55:28.120 --> 0:55:31.120
<v Speaker 2>access to, in a legal, safe way. In the comfort

0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.799
<v Speaker 2>of my own home, I can watch what's going on.

0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I can watch romantic behavior and even intimate behavior in

0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:40.080
<v Speaker 2>the comfort and the legality of my own home.

0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:41.759
<v Speaker 1>Without putting a camera in someone's house the.

0:55:41.800 --> 0:55:43.719
<v Speaker 2>Thing of goggle Box. Then, you know, you know, I

0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:45.399
<v Speaker 2>think that's part of the bas I think that's part

0:55:45.440 --> 0:55:47.080
<v Speaker 2>of why, you know, it makes sense to me that

0:55:47.160 --> 0:55:50.480
<v Speaker 2>it is a distressor because you can unpack any sort

0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>of heaviness that you've got during the day and go

0:55:52.480 --> 0:55:55.800
<v Speaker 2>I can just watch their behavior and how crazy they look,

0:55:56.040 --> 0:55:58.560
<v Speaker 2>and I feel good about myself. Ah, the world's a

0:55:58.600 --> 0:55:59.719
<v Speaker 2>safe place again.

0:56:00.120 --> 0:56:01.480
<v Speaker 1>The big things as well. And I think that it's

0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:04.640
<v Speaker 1>all interrelated. Like we are so obsessed with social media,

0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:07.040
<v Speaker 1>which I think has a very similar ethos behind it.

0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:09.280
<v Speaker 1>You know, we get to see this insight into people's lives.

0:56:09.520 --> 0:56:13.680
<v Speaker 1>But reality TV social media have completely changed the landscape

0:56:13.680 --> 0:56:16.640
<v Speaker 1>for what creates a celebrity because before, back in the day,

0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:20.279
<v Speaker 1>our true sort of like supermodels and our celebrities were

0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:23.000
<v Speaker 1>held in such a high regard because they were so

0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:26.160
<v Speaker 1>far away, they were so untouchable and on this huge pedestal,

0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:28.360
<v Speaker 1>and there was some sort of secrecy to their life,

0:56:28.360 --> 0:56:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and that was what we found so engaging and so interesting.

0:56:30.880 --> 0:56:34.280
<v Speaker 1>But with the dawn of social media and with reality TV,

0:56:34.640 --> 0:56:37.920
<v Speaker 1>we now crave that connection. We now crave that insight

0:56:37.920 --> 0:56:41.520
<v Speaker 1>into people's lives, and we actually form a greater love

0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:44.600
<v Speaker 1>for and bond with people who show us more of

0:56:44.640 --> 0:56:46.160
<v Speaker 1>their lives than less of their lives.

0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:46.360
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:49.040
<v Speaker 1>So even we see that some Hollywood stars now have

0:56:49.160 --> 0:56:51.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of the new wave of Hollywood stars are far

0:56:51.760 --> 0:56:54.479
<v Speaker 1>more open with their lives, whereas the old school ones

0:56:54.480 --> 0:56:56.759
<v Speaker 1>like your Tom Cruise and Nicole Kimmens and stuff are

0:56:56.880 --> 0:56:58.880
<v Speaker 1>very close still. And I think that that's just going

0:56:58.960 --> 0:57:01.680
<v Speaker 1>to continue to change because what we expect as a

0:57:01.760 --> 0:57:05.719
<v Speaker 1>consumer is changing. What we expect people to show and

0:57:05.760 --> 0:57:07.440
<v Speaker 1>to reveal is completely changing.

0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:09.399
<v Speaker 2>And you've made a really good point. So there's two

0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:13.440
<v Speaker 2>words there that psychology words I'll introduce. It's called para

0:57:13.560 --> 0:57:18.600
<v Speaker 2>social relationships with celebrities is a new terminology that's evolving,

0:57:18.840 --> 0:57:22.040
<v Speaker 2>and there's actually a journal of celebrity studies has now

0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:25.520
<v Speaker 2>raised created in the last decade, So it's looking at

0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:30.240
<v Speaker 2>the development and evolution of celebrity and how we identify

0:57:30.480 --> 0:57:34.919
<v Speaker 2>with Often reality TV people is this parasocial relationship. Their

0:57:35.000 --> 0:57:37.440
<v Speaker 2>life is like my life? Am I as pretty as her?

0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Or not as pretty as her? Oh, she's got how

0:57:40.040 --> 0:57:44.360
<v Speaker 2>she relates to her partner? And when a celebrity engages

0:57:44.400 --> 0:57:48.640
<v Speaker 2>in some sort of egregious behavior, that parasocial relationship is

0:57:48.720 --> 0:57:53.200
<v Speaker 2>broken because there's such an identification with the celebrity, and

0:57:53.240 --> 0:57:58.800
<v Speaker 2>that means that often accounts for trolling behavior and abusive behavior.

0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:02.800
<v Speaker 2>So if a celebrity does something wrong, it actually interrupts

0:58:02.840 --> 0:58:06.520
<v Speaker 2>that parasocial relationship, which is what audience have identified with.

0:58:06.640 --> 0:58:09.200
<v Speaker 1>But Sandy, another thing that I really wanted to talk

0:58:09.240 --> 0:58:13.560
<v Speaker 1>to you about because I'm obsessed with it is true crime.

0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Now I know you have studied criminology. Why is it

0:58:17.240 --> 0:58:20.360
<v Speaker 1>that we are so obsessed with serial killers and murders

0:58:20.360 --> 0:58:22.800
<v Speaker 1>and all these horrific things that happen to people Because

0:58:24.560 --> 0:58:27.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't like watching it. I hate what happens to people.

0:58:27.600 --> 0:58:29.840
<v Speaker 1>But I love listening to crime podcasts. It's like my

0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:31.760
<v Speaker 1>number one no offense Laura, but I listened to Crime

0:58:31.760 --> 0:58:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Model Ourselves. I love listening to true crime podcasts. I

0:58:34.800 --> 0:58:37.480
<v Speaker 1>love watching true crime reality TV shows. I love watching

0:58:37.520 --> 0:58:41.120
<v Speaker 1>where the psychologists go into the prisons and speak to

0:58:41.200 --> 0:58:43.880
<v Speaker 1>serial killers. Why are we sickos?

0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Or what?

0:58:45.640 --> 0:58:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Well? I mean.

0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:48.240
<v Speaker 2>I used to work in Barwin Prison, so as a

0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:51.960
<v Speaker 2>forensic psychologist in Barwin, so just the maximum security men's prison.

0:58:52.000 --> 0:58:53.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like the equivalent I think of your silver water

0:58:53.920 --> 0:58:56.520
<v Speaker 2>or gold and jail. So I have actually dealt with

0:58:56.920 --> 0:59:00.000
<v Speaker 2>the state's worst offenders. So I also started off having

0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:02.960
<v Speaker 2>this fascination going, oh my god, look, I think the

0:59:03.000 --> 0:59:05.000
<v Speaker 2>real reason that we're attracted to it is because it's

0:59:05.040 --> 0:59:08.000
<v Speaker 2>behavior that we otherwise wouldn't have access to. So you

0:59:08.040 --> 0:59:13.480
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't engage in imagining murdering people, or torturing people, or

0:59:13.520 --> 0:59:17.680
<v Speaker 2>sexually abusing people. So all these high rating crimes are

0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:21.120
<v Speaker 2>crimes that are really just unimaginable to us, that we

0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:23.520
<v Speaker 2>could never So it's a bit like again looking at

0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:26.000
<v Speaker 2>this voyeur is and coming home in the safety of

0:59:26.000 --> 0:59:29.680
<v Speaker 2>your own home, you're actually able to see what other

0:59:29.760 --> 0:59:33.640
<v Speaker 2>people do, which you otherwise would never have access to.

0:59:34.120 --> 0:59:36.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's the draw card of looking at

0:59:36.360 --> 0:59:39.240
<v Speaker 2>crime stories. It's interesting, you know, having worked at the

0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:42.400
<v Speaker 2>cold face with these criminals and offenders both you know,

0:59:42.480 --> 0:59:44.480
<v Speaker 2>sexual offenders and murderers and all the rest of it.

0:59:45.080 --> 0:59:47.000
<v Speaker 2>I actually got in my car every night and slept

0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:50.120
<v Speaker 2>really well, and I think it was because, unlike being

0:59:50.160 --> 0:59:52.960
<v Speaker 2>all packaged and neat and clean, I was actually able

0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:56.320
<v Speaker 2>to communicate on a very deep level with the offenders,

0:59:56.760 --> 0:59:59.600
<v Speaker 2>so I could understand their crimes and of course not

0:59:59.600 --> 1:00:02.080
<v Speaker 2>condone any of it, but I could actually because I

1:00:02.120 --> 1:00:04.919
<v Speaker 2>could understand the developmental pathway and how they got there.

1:00:05.240 --> 1:00:07.640
<v Speaker 2>It was a really curious and interesting process for me

1:00:08.160 --> 1:00:11.200
<v Speaker 2>in terms of how it affected me psychologically. And for

1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:13.480
<v Speaker 2>some reason, I was able to just say, Okay, we're

1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:15.680
<v Speaker 2>done for the day. Today's work's finished. I'm getting the

1:00:15.720 --> 1:00:17.760
<v Speaker 2>car and drive. But when I see stuff on TV

1:00:17.880 --> 1:00:20.960
<v Speaker 2>like crime stories, I'm more affected the way I think

1:00:21.120 --> 1:00:22.440
<v Speaker 2>also the way it's packaged up.

1:00:22.800 --> 1:00:26.160
<v Speaker 1>How do you as a psychologist cope with taking on

1:00:26.280 --> 1:00:29.800
<v Speaker 1>people's stories and emotions and sitting down with people every

1:00:29.880 --> 1:00:32.560
<v Speaker 1>day and listening to, you know, the things that they're

1:00:32.600 --> 1:00:35.280
<v Speaker 1>struggling with. Like, how do you compartmentalize that and not

1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:38.200
<v Speaker 1>take that home and not allow that to emotionally impact you.

1:00:38.320 --> 1:00:40.120
<v Speaker 2>You do a lot of self care, that's the first thing.

1:00:40.480 --> 1:00:43.000
<v Speaker 2>And I don't sit our after hour listening to people

1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:46.080
<v Speaker 2>because I just think that's actually anti therapeutic. So I'm

1:00:46.200 --> 1:00:49.000
<v Speaker 2>very guarded in the number of people I have. And

1:00:49.640 --> 1:00:53.160
<v Speaker 2>one of the core attributes of a good psychologist is

1:00:53.240 --> 1:00:56.360
<v Speaker 2>having a high degree of creativity, because you never know

1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:58.840
<v Speaker 2>what's walking through the door, so you have to be

1:00:58.960 --> 1:01:01.760
<v Speaker 2>on I have to join lots of issues, and what

1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:05.760
<v Speaker 2>excites me is formulating a story about what's going on

1:01:05.840 --> 1:01:07.880
<v Speaker 2>with this person and seeing if I can offer what

1:01:08.360 --> 1:01:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm a very strength based person, so that means offering

1:01:11.360 --> 1:01:14.600
<v Speaker 2>my insights to see how we can together navigate some

1:01:14.760 --> 1:01:17.920
<v Speaker 2>resolutions of whatever the problem is. So the issues are

1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:21.520
<v Speaker 2>often very big. So I've written many, many reports for

1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:24.680
<v Speaker 2>women of domestic abuse and represented women, you know, and

1:01:24.760 --> 1:01:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I've done family court reports. I've done children court reports,

1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:31.040
<v Speaker 2>so a whole gamut of reports and people have come

1:01:31.040 --> 1:01:34.760
<v Speaker 2>to me, and I think how I manage it is

1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I just see them as humans, no matter what eff

1:01:37.400 --> 1:01:40.480
<v Speaker 2>ups have happened in their life, even for offenders. I

1:01:40.520 --> 1:01:45.160
<v Speaker 2>get to understand developmentally what has happened. And so I

1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:47.320
<v Speaker 2>guess I have a great deal of empathy, and it's

1:01:47.320 --> 1:01:51.080
<v Speaker 2>that empathy that actually carries me through and doesn't harm me.

1:01:51.360 --> 1:01:53.440
<v Speaker 2>I can just go I understand where you've come FRO.

1:01:53.440 --> 1:01:55.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm not giving a moral judgment about if you become

1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:59.000
<v Speaker 2>a sexual offender, about the impact on the victim. I

1:01:59.160 --> 1:02:02.880
<v Speaker 2>just go all on focusing on here is why did

1:02:02.920 --> 1:02:04.480
<v Speaker 2>you get to that position in life.

1:02:04.560 --> 1:02:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I have a question that's based around these true crime shows,

1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.520
<v Speaker 1>the ones where the serial killers have passed over, they're

1:02:10.560 --> 1:02:12.880
<v Speaker 1>dead for whatever reason, the ones where they're in jail,

1:02:12.920 --> 1:02:14.720
<v Speaker 1>they go and interview them. My question is, and I

1:02:14.720 --> 1:02:18.480
<v Speaker 1>seem to like toggle between my two thoughts on the situation,

1:02:18.680 --> 1:02:21.520
<v Speaker 1>is do you think we should be giving these people

1:02:21.520 --> 1:02:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a platform because a lot of them just want their

1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:25.680
<v Speaker 1>name out there, don't they They want to be remembered in history.

1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Or do you think it's still we're learning enough from

1:02:28.560 --> 1:02:30.680
<v Speaker 1>it and it's important enough that we are airing it.

1:02:30.720 --> 1:02:32.760
<v Speaker 1>So I'm always a bit between like, I am obsessed

1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:34.360
<v Speaker 1>with this and I want to learn from you, and

1:02:34.400 --> 1:02:35.800
<v Speaker 1>I want to know what is going on in your

1:02:35.800 --> 1:02:37.720
<v Speaker 1>head and then there's another part that's like your name

1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:40.600
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be like famous, We shouldn't be talking about you,

1:02:40.680 --> 1:02:43.120
<v Speaker 1>We shouldn't all know that you killed twenty five women.

1:02:43.520 --> 1:02:45.800
<v Speaker 1>There was also this conversation that came off the back

1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:48.920
<v Speaker 1>of the Ted Bundy series, which was that are we

1:02:49.120 --> 1:02:52.840
<v Speaker 1>romanticizing a serial killer by doing this sort of insight

1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:56.520
<v Speaker 1>into their life and doing this expose? Is that romanticizing

1:02:56.680 --> 1:02:59.680
<v Speaker 1>true crime? Is it romanticizing these horrific events? What doesn't

1:02:59.680 --> 1:02:59.960
<v Speaker 1>help them?

1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:00.400
<v Speaker 2>On us?

1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Zach Efron was the lead world was the lead killer.

1:03:04.240 --> 1:03:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Even more recently, you know, just Cinder drnov in the

1:03:07.240 --> 1:03:12.040
<v Speaker 2>christ Church massacres. She said, we will never ever mention

1:03:12.520 --> 1:03:15.440
<v Speaker 2>his name in a public forum again. And to this

1:03:15.600 --> 1:03:18.240
<v Speaker 2>day I don't even know the guy's name because it's

1:03:18.280 --> 1:03:21.840
<v Speaker 2>never been mentioned again because she didn't want to celebrate

1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:27.480
<v Speaker 2>or give him celebritization of his acts of murder. So

1:03:27.560 --> 1:03:29.400
<v Speaker 2>it's a really it's a really good pointing, and it's

1:03:29.400 --> 1:03:31.920
<v Speaker 2>one I don't have an answer to because a lot

1:03:31.960 --> 1:03:35.760
<v Speaker 2>of serial killers are actually sociopaths. So the difference between

1:03:35.760 --> 1:03:39.440
<v Speaker 2>a psychopath and a sociopaths. Psychopath is typically born with

1:03:40.200 --> 1:03:44.120
<v Speaker 2>sociopath is nurtured because of the deficits in their development,

1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:47.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, mental health of parents, sexual abuse, et cetera,

1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:49.880
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. So that's essentially the difference. So there's a

1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:52.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of and psychopaths is actually a small percentage of

1:03:52.720 --> 1:03:55.040
<v Speaker 2>the population, the criminal population, but a lot of them

1:03:55.040 --> 1:03:58.040
<v Speaker 2>are sociopaths. So if it's a learnt behavior, they would

1:03:58.080 --> 1:04:01.439
<v Speaker 2>no doubt get a lot of play leisure from being

1:04:01.560 --> 1:04:05.080
<v Speaker 2>celebrated because of their criminal conduct. And do we learn

1:04:05.120 --> 1:04:10.480
<v Speaker 2>from it. I'd be very surprised if a potentially violent

1:04:10.520 --> 1:04:14.360
<v Speaker 2>offender would watch a TV program and go not to self,

1:04:14.760 --> 1:04:17.040
<v Speaker 2>must not engage in anti social behavior.

1:04:18.400 --> 1:04:20.520
<v Speaker 1>But do you know what they might learn? Hey, I

1:04:20.520 --> 1:04:23.240
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't wear the same shoes to a crime scene. Correct,

1:04:23.240 --> 1:04:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Hey I shouldn't do this because these are all the

1:04:26.160 --> 1:04:28.520
<v Speaker 1>things that these other people have been busted for. I

1:04:28.560 --> 1:04:31.840
<v Speaker 1>do sometimes watch these shows and think, Wow, so much

1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:34.840
<v Speaker 1>information around how that person got caught and the things

1:04:34.840 --> 1:04:38.200
<v Speaker 1>they did wrong is available, and now it just kind

1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:40.560
<v Speaker 1>of helps someone else to go, Oh, I won't make

1:04:40.600 --> 1:04:42.080
<v Speaker 1>that fuck up. That's what not to do.

1:04:42.280 --> 1:04:49.760
<v Speaker 2>From my clinical experience, most offenders most come from very fragmented, dysfunctional, chaotic,

1:04:50.160 --> 1:04:54.240
<v Speaker 2>drug affected substance abuse lives. So the idea that they're

1:04:54.280 --> 1:04:58.680
<v Speaker 2>going to be introspective when their development is pretty screwy

1:04:58.720 --> 1:05:01.440
<v Speaker 2>from day one. I don't have access to the normal

1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:05.640
<v Speaker 2>social supports or care or love or nurturing or home

1:05:05.680 --> 1:05:08.000
<v Speaker 2>lives that you or I might come from. So the

1:05:08.040 --> 1:05:11.520
<v Speaker 2>idea they're going to watch TV and say, you know, gee,

1:05:11.520 --> 1:05:13.160
<v Speaker 2>how can I reflect on my life and make it

1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:16.480
<v Speaker 2>a little bit better? Because they're just in survival mode,

1:05:16.640 --> 1:05:18.720
<v Speaker 2>and their mode is what can I get out of

1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:22.000
<v Speaker 2>the community or other people that I need to make

1:05:22.000 --> 1:05:23.920
<v Speaker 2>my life a bit better? Whichever way that.

1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:25.880
<v Speaker 1>There's been a lot of women that have come out

1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and said, like in documentaries and interviews that have said

1:05:28.480 --> 1:05:31.080
<v Speaker 1>that they have learned things from watching as well, like

1:05:31.160 --> 1:05:33.800
<v Speaker 1>they learn to carry pepper spray, they learn to lock

1:05:33.840 --> 1:05:37.840
<v Speaker 1>their doors, they learn to share their location immediately if

1:05:37.880 --> 1:05:40.120
<v Speaker 1>they feel like they're in a vulnerable position.

1:05:40.360 --> 1:05:41.960
<v Speaker 2>No, I think that's right. I think I think law

1:05:42.040 --> 1:05:44.920
<v Speaker 2>abiding people probably learn a little bit more from some

1:05:45.000 --> 1:05:47.439
<v Speaker 2>of these shows than offenders. As I said, I don't

1:05:47.440 --> 1:05:49.800
<v Speaker 2>think offenders sit back and go note to self, I

1:05:51.400 --> 1:05:54.720
<v Speaker 2>won't murder that woman today. No, No, because it's bad publicity,

1:05:54.800 --> 1:05:57.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't think that's going to happen, but

1:05:57.240 --> 1:05:59.600
<v Speaker 2>I think you're probably right. Law abiding people become a

1:05:59.640 --> 1:06:03.240
<v Speaker 2>little bit more aware of some of the mechanisms that

1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:04.360
<v Speaker 2>offenders engage in.

1:06:04.480 --> 1:06:06.480
<v Speaker 1>God, I've learned so much from True Crime podcast And

1:06:06.560 --> 1:06:07.040
<v Speaker 1>the only.

1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Trouble is then equally it makes you. It may make

1:06:09.360 --> 1:06:13.360
<v Speaker 2>you a little bit more hot, inappropriately hyper vigilant. So

1:06:13.520 --> 1:06:16.960
<v Speaker 2>even though I've worked in the prisons, I'm not hyper

1:06:17.000 --> 1:06:20.160
<v Speaker 2>vigilant or hyper aroused at all. Like I'm not sort

1:06:20.160 --> 1:06:21.880
<v Speaker 2>of like, oh, there's a bang, there's a clue. Oh,

1:06:21.880 --> 1:06:24.240
<v Speaker 2>I've been to make sure I don't engage in any

1:06:24.320 --> 1:06:27.200
<v Speaker 2>of that behavior. But also I think I don't feed

1:06:27.240 --> 1:06:30.760
<v Speaker 2>that behavior. Like, as you say, when you're constantly watching

1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:34.600
<v Speaker 2>podcasts on crime, I think it starts to trigger you,

1:06:34.600 --> 1:06:37.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, and it reinforces very again, a cluster of

1:06:37.520 --> 1:06:40.520
<v Speaker 2>vulnerable behaviors. Nothing wrong with you know, being aware of safety,

1:06:40.560 --> 1:06:43.120
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera. But I think also if you

1:06:43.720 --> 1:06:46.880
<v Speaker 2>are finding that you are getting rather excited about when

1:06:46.920 --> 1:06:49.920
<v Speaker 2>you step outside your front door because I'm on something

1:06:50.000 --> 1:06:51.720
<v Speaker 2>might happen to me, I think you probably need to

1:06:51.720 --> 1:06:52.400
<v Speaker 2>back it off a bit.

1:06:52.760 --> 1:06:56.680
<v Speaker 1>You need to cancel your subscription or Sandy, thank you

1:06:56.760 --> 1:06:58.440
<v Speaker 1>so much. I think I feel like we've covered a lot,

1:06:58.520 --> 1:07:02.160
<v Speaker 1>so we're really like for all the patum pillar to post.

1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:05.920
<v Speaker 1>We have gone everywhere, We've got access to this amazing psychologist.

1:07:05.960 --> 1:07:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Let's just cover everything and then have a personal therapy

1:07:08.160 --> 1:07:10.120
<v Speaker 1>session in there as well. Yeah, I'm going to stay

1:07:10.120 --> 1:07:11.560
<v Speaker 1>on the line and talk to you about my love

1:07:11.560 --> 1:07:14.880
<v Speaker 1>life after this forty five minutes. No, but thank you

1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:17.200
<v Speaker 1>so much for coming on. Sandy. Can you please let

1:07:17.200 --> 1:07:20.560
<v Speaker 1>everyone know where they can find you on Instagram or online?

1:07:20.760 --> 1:07:22.080
<v Speaker 1>What are your handles? Oh?

1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Look, just Sandy Ray my hand lower case Sandy Ray,

1:07:25.240 --> 1:07:28.800
<v Speaker 2>a lowercase of Instagram. And I've just got a web page,

1:07:28.800 --> 1:07:32.320
<v Speaker 2>so if you look it up, Sandy Ray ari a psychologist.

1:07:32.520 --> 1:07:34.919
<v Speaker 2>All the directions are on my website and you'll get

1:07:34.920 --> 1:07:35.080
<v Speaker 2>to me.

1:07:35.200 --> 1:07:37.680
<v Speaker 1>You've been wonderful. Thank you, Thank you so much for

1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:39.680
<v Speaker 1>taking the time with us today, Sandy, Thank you.

1:07:39.720 --> 1:07:46.320
<v Speaker 2>So much for having me girls so much. Fuck will

1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:49.280
<v Speaker 2>you guys know we never finished an episode without our

1:07:49.360 --> 1:07:51.200
<v Speaker 2>highlight and our low light of the week.

1:07:51.320 --> 1:07:53.840
<v Speaker 1>It is called suck and sweet and Laura you can

1:07:53.920 --> 1:07:55.680
<v Speaker 1>kick this off. What is your suck? I just want

1:07:55.720 --> 1:07:57.080
<v Speaker 1>to say as well. I love that there's some of

1:07:57.120 --> 1:07:59.080
<v Speaker 1>you out there who have started doing this. There's actually

1:07:59.080 --> 1:08:00.960
<v Speaker 1>a thread that's just started on the Facebook group where

1:08:00.960 --> 1:08:03.320
<v Speaker 1>people are adding their suck and sweets for the week.

1:08:03.440 --> 1:08:06.440
<v Speaker 1>So yes, it is such a nice little way to

1:08:06.560 --> 1:08:08.920
<v Speaker 1>round out what could have been a great or very

1:08:08.920 --> 1:08:11.440
<v Speaker 1>shitty week. Up to you, we love to see, we

1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:14.120
<v Speaker 1>love to see it. My suck for this week has

1:08:14.160 --> 1:08:16.040
<v Speaker 1>got to be that Lolo is teething. I know I

1:08:16.080 --> 1:08:19.080
<v Speaker 1>mentioned at the start, but it just consumes everything. And

1:08:19.120 --> 1:08:21.719
<v Speaker 1>we had gotten to a really good point with her sleeping.

1:08:21.960 --> 1:08:24.000
<v Speaker 1>She had gotten down to like only waking up two

1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:26.439
<v Speaker 1>times a night, which I know for her being six

1:08:26.479 --> 1:08:28.720
<v Speaker 1>months old, there's gonna be some people listening who are like,

1:08:28.880 --> 1:08:31.360
<v Speaker 1>that's not good. Baby should sleep through it. Six months

1:08:31.520 --> 1:08:34.920
<v Speaker 1>My kids don't twice a night. Is great for us.

1:08:35.200 --> 1:08:37.320
<v Speaker 1>I wish my kids slept through the night. But she's

1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:39.599
<v Speaker 1>back to just waking up like a million times a night.

1:08:39.680 --> 1:08:42.519
<v Speaker 1>She's so feral at the moment, and it's really it

1:08:42.600 --> 1:08:45.160
<v Speaker 1>hurts your heart seeing your baby in pain. And you

1:08:45.160 --> 1:08:46.720
<v Speaker 1>know every time she has a mouthful of food or

1:08:46.720 --> 1:08:48.880
<v Speaker 1>bites down on a spoon or something, she gets really upset.

1:08:48.920 --> 1:08:52.400
<v Speaker 1>So that hurts my soul that she is upset at

1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:55.760
<v Speaker 1>the moment. But my sweet for the week, ah, Like,

1:08:55.840 --> 1:08:57.680
<v Speaker 1>my sweet for the week is just I think I

1:08:57.720 --> 1:08:59.439
<v Speaker 1>said this last week, but I'm gonna see it again.

1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:01.639
<v Speaker 1>It's just the extra family time that we've been having.

1:09:01.680 --> 1:09:04.760
<v Speaker 1>And I mean we've spent so much time inside the

1:09:04.800 --> 1:09:07.240
<v Speaker 1>four of us and playing games with Marley, playing hide

1:09:07.280 --> 1:09:09.439
<v Speaker 1>and seek. We don't usually get to have that much

1:09:09.439 --> 1:09:12.479
<v Speaker 1>time doing like cute little family stuff and things that

1:09:12.520 --> 1:09:14.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, normally you're too busy rushing around are You're

1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:16.640
<v Speaker 1>too busy trying to like get other work done. But

1:09:17.080 --> 1:09:19.040
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I've really got to spend time just

1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:21.800
<v Speaker 1>playing with Marley, and I've loved that. So that's my

1:09:21.840 --> 1:09:24.040
<v Speaker 1>sweet for the week. Let me go, that's a cute sweet.

1:09:24.080 --> 1:09:25.840
<v Speaker 1>It's good that you're trying to take something from a

1:09:25.880 --> 1:09:28.280
<v Speaker 1>bad situation, you know, and take the good from it.

1:09:28.720 --> 1:09:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Brett. I was like, this is where you respond something. Alright,

1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:39.720
<v Speaker 1>what is your second suite? Okay, So I actually have

1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:43.920
<v Speaker 1>a pretty solid suck this week. I lost my phone,

1:09:44.000 --> 1:09:46.280
<v Speaker 1>and I don't mean lost it, like lost it temporarily.

1:09:46.320 --> 1:09:48.600
<v Speaker 1>I haven't had it for five days. It's gone my

1:09:49.520 --> 1:09:52.640
<v Speaker 1>phone has disappeared, so I've been without a phone, and

1:09:52.680 --> 1:09:55.760
<v Speaker 1>then of course I forgot my Instagram and hot Mail

1:09:55.800 --> 1:09:57.760
<v Speaker 1>passwords because you know how on your phone everything's just

1:09:57.760 --> 1:10:00.880
<v Speaker 1>perpetually locked in. Yeah, it's just automated. Such a bad idea,

1:10:00.920 --> 1:10:02.800
<v Speaker 1>isn't it. Oh, and I do all my banking on

1:10:02.840 --> 1:10:05.400
<v Speaker 1>there and do my business. I have just been absolutely

1:10:05.439 --> 1:10:07.800
<v Speaker 1>lost without it. But hopefully I'm only probably two more

1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:09.760
<v Speaker 1>days without a phone and then I'll get another one.

1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:12.640
<v Speaker 1>That was my suck. Wait, did you have everything backed up?

1:10:15.160 --> 1:10:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Pass No? Some stuff was, Yeah, some stuff was, but

1:10:22.280 --> 1:10:24.920
<v Speaker 1>not everything because I took off automatic updates because it

1:10:24.920 --> 1:10:28.080
<v Speaker 1>was really annoying me. But that's a really really silly

1:10:28.120 --> 1:10:29.479
<v Speaker 1>thing to do. I mean, not that you want to

1:10:29.479 --> 1:10:31.679
<v Speaker 1>hear that now after you just thanked your phone, but like, wow,

1:10:32.360 --> 1:10:36.320
<v Speaker 1>I put on automatic updates after having kids. So I've

1:10:36.360 --> 1:10:38.680
<v Speaker 1>lost my phone so many times, and every single time

1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I've lost so many, so many photos. But after having

1:10:41.360 --> 1:10:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Laura and Maaly, I was like, I think it would

1:10:43.960 --> 1:10:47.040
<v Speaker 1>be so soul crushing to lose photos of your kids

1:10:47.080 --> 1:10:49.320
<v Speaker 1>because obviously they never go back to being that little again.

1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:51.160
<v Speaker 1>And I know there's going to be someone listening to

1:10:51.160 --> 1:10:53.240
<v Speaker 1>this who it's happened to, and I'm so sorry if

1:10:53.240 --> 1:10:55.639
<v Speaker 1>it's if it's you. But like that's when I was like, Okay,

1:10:55.640 --> 1:10:58.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't care if it's annoying doing automatic updates at nighttime.

1:10:58.320 --> 1:11:00.400
<v Speaker 1>We're doing it every night. I mean a back up

1:11:00.439 --> 1:11:03.200
<v Speaker 1>every single photo. And now my cloud I pay like

1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:07.280
<v Speaker 1>an abstronomical amount because I have thousands of shitty screenshots

1:11:07.320 --> 1:11:09.760
<v Speaker 1>and just like stuff that you do not need to save,

1:11:09.880 --> 1:11:12.439
<v Speaker 1>it's all saved. I have never gonna lose anything again.

1:11:12.960 --> 1:11:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Bless yourself, my sweet To be honest, it's pretty it's

1:11:16.080 --> 1:11:18.559
<v Speaker 1>pretty easy. One. Jordan's not playing a tournament this week.

1:11:18.600 --> 1:11:21.160
<v Speaker 1>It's the first week that he hasn't played since I've

1:11:21.200 --> 1:11:23.400
<v Speaker 1>been here, so it's the first week we've actually just

1:11:23.479 --> 1:11:26.320
<v Speaker 1>hung out as a couple and not had a million

1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:28.519
<v Speaker 1>places to be and you know, he goes to play

1:11:28.560 --> 1:11:30.760
<v Speaker 1>tennis for ten hours a day, so whilst I see

1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:32.280
<v Speaker 1>him every day, it's the first time I feel like

1:11:32.320 --> 1:11:34.320
<v Speaker 1>we actually got some real quality time. So that was

1:11:34.360 --> 1:11:38.080
<v Speaker 1>really cute. That is it from us today. Please keep

1:11:38.120 --> 1:11:40.160
<v Speaker 1>your questions coming in because in a few days time

1:11:40.280 --> 1:11:43.000
<v Speaker 1>we have asked gun cut and we absolutely love bringing

1:11:43.000 --> 1:11:45.560
<v Speaker 1>that to you so slide on in to the Instagram

1:11:45.600 --> 1:11:48.240
<v Speaker 1>or lifeun Cut podcast. Just make sure at the top

1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:50.639
<v Speaker 1>of your DM you put their head in ask guncut

1:11:50.680 --> 1:11:53.000
<v Speaker 1>so we know what your questions and please keep those

1:11:53.000 --> 1:11:55.479
<v Speaker 1>accidentally unfiltereds coming in. Also, guys, if you have not

1:11:55.640 --> 1:11:59.360
<v Speaker 1>left a review yet, jump onto Apple Podcast, leave a review, subscribe.

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<v Speaker 1>You know the drill. Tell your momum, tell your dad,

1:12:02.160 --> 1:12:04.120
<v Speaker 1>two friends to you cousin, tell your dog, and just

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<v Speaker 1>tell everyone and share the love because we love love