1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday, 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: the nineteenth of May. I'm zara, I'm Nina. Singapore's considering 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: laws that would ban cancel culture in the country. It 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: came after religious groups said they feared being canceled for 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: their views on gay marriage following the repeal of a 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: controversial law. 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 3: The government will repeal Section three seven seven E and 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 3: decriminalize sex between meth. 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: So in today's deep Dive, we're gonna unpack how Singapore 16 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: got to this point and whether it's even possible to 17 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: legislate against cancel culture. First, Nina, what's making headlines this morning. 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 4: Federal MP Stuart Robert has officially resigned from Parliament and 19 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 4: that's triggered a by election in the electorate of Fadden 20 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 4: in Queensland. There's speculation that former PM Scott Morrison will 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 4: also quit politics. I feel like we've been hearing that 22 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 4: one for a while though, meaning there could be two 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,279 Speaker 4: by elections on the same day. What's a by election, 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 4: so glad you asked, Sarah. A by election is an 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 4: election held to replace a single member of the House 26 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 4: of Representatives outside the normal election cycle. 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: Victorian Premier Dan Andrews has said the state government will 28 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: consider mandating the use of seat belts on school buses 29 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: after a crash in West Melbourne on Tuesday that left 30 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: seven children with life threatening injuries. However, Andrews said there 31 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: would be some difficulty in putting the onus on bus 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: drivers to enforce seat belts. 33 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 4: The unemployment rate rose to three point seven percent in April, 34 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 4: according to new data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. 35 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 4: Treasure Jim Chalmers said the government has expected for some 36 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 4: time that the unemployment rate would tick up a bit 37 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 4: as a consequence of higher interest rates, but that the 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 4: latest figure is remarkably low given what's come at. 39 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: Us and the good news. Scientists have found a potential 40 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 2: antidote to the world's deadliest mushroom, which we know as 41 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: the death cap. In new research published this week in 42 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: academic journal Nature Communications, scientists found that when the death 43 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: cap is consumed followed by indocyanine green, which is like 44 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: a medical dye used to take images of liver and 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: heart function, recovery is improved and the liver damage is 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: significantly decreased. There you go. Singapore is considering laws that 47 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: would ban cancel culture in the country. When you think 48 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: of someone being canceled, Nina, who do you think of? 49 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 4: I'm going to deflect And they asked the office and 50 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 4: they said, Harvey Weinstein and James Charles. 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: Yes, so tell me who James Charles is. 52 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 4: I don't know who James Charles is. 53 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: Up with the kids, but I mean, those are two 54 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: of the cases of cancel culture that I think we 55 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: often think of, or we immediately think of when we 56 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: talk about this topic. But today we're talking about something 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 2: a bit different. In Singapore's case, it's being used by 58 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: religious organizations who fear they're going to be silenced if 59 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: the country becomes too secular. So it all comes back 60 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: to some debates relating to LGBTQI rights in the country. 61 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 4: In Singapore, for people who don't know what kind of 62 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 4: a place is Singapore. 63 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: It's generally considered a socially conservative country. It was only 64 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: at the end of last year that the country decriminalized homosexuality. 65 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: I remember when we covered it and I was just 66 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: so shocked that it was still in place. 67 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: It's still a thing. 68 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. 69 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: For decades, Singapore's government had preserved the controversial three seven 70 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: seven A law, and that law bans sex between two men. 71 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: While the rule hasn't necessarily been enforced for about fifteen years, 72 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: it was still part of the nation's laws. And that 73 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: makes me think of, for example, abortion laws here in 74 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: Australia that it was still in the criminal Code and 75 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: a lot of states until recently but wasn't necessarily being enforced. 76 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: But Singapore, by no means was the last country to 77 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 2: decriminalize homosexuality. To this day, there are still at least 78 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: sixty seven nations that criminalize same sex intercourse. 79 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 4: So to come back to Singapore, can you just explain 80 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 4: how it actually got overturned eventually? 81 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it took decades of activists and lawyers 82 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: pushing for the repeal of three seven seven A. It 83 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: had been challenged in the Singaporean Parliament and courts as 84 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 2: being unconstitutional, specifically for breaching an article in the Constitution 85 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,799 Speaker 2: that guarantees equal protection under the law. It had actually 86 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: faced so many challenges over the years and came close 87 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: to being overturned so many times that last year the 88 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: government announced a review of the law and eventually its repeal. 89 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: This is the PM of Singapore, Le Sien Lung making 90 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 2: the announcement. 91 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 3: The government will repeal section three seven seven A and 92 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 3: decriminalize sex between men. I believe this is the right 93 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 3: thing to do and something that most Singaporeans will now accept. 94 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 4: So the pre Minister made that big announcement, you would 95 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 4: imagine there would be a big sense of celebration from 96 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 4: LGBTQI rights groups in Singapore. 97 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: Was that the case, Yeah, I mean there was this 98 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: real sense of victory. They'd been calling for the repeal 99 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: of this law for so long, and I think characterized 100 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: it as this triumph of love over fear. But with 101 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: any issue, there are two sides, and on the other hand, 102 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 2: there was pushback. Singapore is a religious country and there 103 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: were many parts of the community who were extremely opposed 104 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 2: to the repeal of this law. The National Council of 105 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 2: Churches of Singapore, the Catholic archbishop, and Islamic authorities all 106 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: made these public statements again the law being repealed. In particular, 107 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: some religious groups expressed concern that repealing the law would 108 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: lead to a general shift towards secularism and away from religion. 109 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: And again, this isn't a new idea. I think a 110 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 2: lot of countries around the world have had to grapple 111 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 2: with this issue. 112 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 4: We did with the plebiscite, yeah, exactly. 113 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: And it feels like those religious groups really lobbied hard 114 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: because when announcing the repeal of three thirty seven A, 115 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister of Singapore also announced a proposed amendment 116 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: to the Constitution that would enshrine the institution of marriage 117 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: as only between a man and a woman. So, I mean, 118 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: on the one hand, they've decriminalized sex between two men, 119 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 2: but at the very same time, they've also entrenched marriage 120 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 2: as between a man and a woman. In his speech, 121 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: the PM said that while repealing this law would provide 122 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 2: relief to LGBTQI Singaporeans, most Singaporeans did not want its 123 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: repeal to trigger a drastic shift in societal morms. 124 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 3: We will therefore protect the definition of marriage from being 125 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 3: challenged constitutionally in the courts to retain the basic family 126 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,239 Speaker 3: structure of marriage between a man and a woman within 127 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 3: which we have and raise our children. 128 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 4: So, Zara, you've painted a picture about how Singapore is 129 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 4: having these really challenging conversations culturally and religiously on many 130 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 4: levels about LGBTQI rights in the country. How does cancel 131 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 4: culture come into any of this. 132 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: So it comes into what I was saying before that 133 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: with the appealing of this law, there was concern within 134 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: religious groups that the country was moving towards too much 135 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: of a secular future, and as a result of that, 136 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: some groups worried that cancel culture would stop them freely 137 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: expressing views on things like sex, gender, and marriage without 138 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: being silent. 139 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 4: The religious groups are worried that they'll be silenced. 140 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: Correct, yes, that with this new Singapore that you know, 141 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: sex between two men is no longer criminalized. They were 142 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: concerned that if they voiced position to that publicly, that 143 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: they would be canceled. A Bloomberg journalist put this to 144 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: Singapore's Minister of Law and Home Affairs, asking if Singapore 145 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: would consider passing a law to stop so called cancel culture, 146 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: and this is what he said. 147 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 5: This is an issue that has concerned us, not just 148 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 5: in the context of debates or arguments about three seven 149 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 5: seven A or you know, sexual maris, but on a 150 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 5: wide variety of issues. And if we find the right solutions, yes, 151 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:35,359 Speaker 5: that should be something that we could see in her legislation. 152 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 4: So canceling cancel culture is that enable in Singapore? Is 153 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 4: it even possible to legislate against cancel culture? How would 154 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 4: a government even go about doing that? 155 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: I mean, my instinctive response is with great difficulty. It 156 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: would be an incredibly hard thing to legislate. And when 157 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: we're talking about this Singapore example, no laws have actually 158 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: been formally drafted. But because as we're hearing about kind 159 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 2: of rumblings of this and there have been some proposals 160 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: put on the table, we thought we'd put our questions 161 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: to a partner at a Singaporean law firm. He said 162 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: that he isn't aware of any other jurisdiction in the 163 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 2: world that's considering something like a law ban and cancel culture, 164 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: and that it would be really difficult to pull off. 165 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: For one, he said that there'd be difficulty even defining 166 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: what cancel culture is. I think if we think about 167 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: the examples that we used at the beginning, like a 168 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: Harvey Wine scene situation versus an influencer being canceled. 169 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 4: Versus a religious organization. 170 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: In Singapore, there's a huge spectrum, like there are convictions 171 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: against one and just beliefs held against another, and that 172 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: is something that would prove an obstacle I think in 173 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: legislating against cancel culture. But another issue if we think 174 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: about this Singaporean example, is that oftentimes pylons and cancel 175 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: culture happen on the Internet, and it would be really 176 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: difficult to distinguish between social media content that ari from Singapore, 177 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: that's in Singapore, and then of course content that is 178 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: made overseas. And if we're only legislating against Singaporeans who 179 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: are bound by Singaporean law, what about all those people 180 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: that applying on from Australia. 181 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 4: But also that just the nature of the Internet. You 182 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 4: take one thing down, ten things pop out. 183 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's a vacuum. But I think if 184 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: Singapore does move to legislate against this, it would lead 185 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: to an incredible precedent that I mean, I don't know 186 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: how other governments would respond to it. There would be 187 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: huge free speech implications, and it would be fascinating to 188 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: see what would happen in the age of the Internet. 189 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 4: I have a question for you, Zara. Excellent because I 190 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 4: know that we're talking about this in a very specific 191 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 4: context which you've laid out, and it's so unique to 192 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 4: the history of Singapore and Singapore's LGBTQI writes, But I 193 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 4: am wondering, having thought about this now, and having even 194 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 4: thought about the prospect of cancel culture being canceled, do 195 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 4: you feel like we should be considering regulating cancel culture 196 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 4: here in Australia. 197 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: Okay, well, you deflected it earlier questions. I'm deflecting you 198 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: to answer because I want to know. I want to 199 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 2: know what you think. 200 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 4: There's I've had lots of different interesting conversations about this 201 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 4: over the years. 202 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 2: You do strike me as someone that thinks deeply about 203 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: cancel culture. 204 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 4: I think, initially and I still to some degree believe 205 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 4: this that in instances where historically groups of people or 206 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 4: just individuals have been ignored or have not had a 207 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 4: place at the table, have not had an opportunity to 208 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 4: speak a platform, cancel culture does provide a unique way 209 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 4: of rebalancing things and actually taking down high profile people 210 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 4: and that's really powerful, and I don't think that should 211 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 4: be forgotten. However, the idea of taking the conversation off 212 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 4: the table altogether and shutting it down never seems healthy. 213 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: You're a person with the profile, Zarah, do you worry 214 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 4: about being canceled? 215 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: I think that it is a force for good in 216 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: so many ways that it makes you consider a lot 217 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: of different perspectives. Like you said that like otherwise, we're 218 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 2: not being considered, we're not being respected. I do think, though, 219 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: we do get to a point where we will not 220 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: entertain any healthy discussion, any healthy debate. I started a 221 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: media organization. I want people to be talking about their opinions. 222 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: I want people to have educated opinions and to feel 223 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 2: really comfortable in being able to debate that and defend 224 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: their position. I think where that crosses over into hate speech, 225 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 2: I absolutely do not condone. But I think there is 226 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: a space before then though that firstly I think should 227 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: exist and allows for healthy scrutiny without ridding people of 228 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 2: the chance to learn. Thanks for joining us on the 229 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: Daily OS. If you learned something from today's episode, don't 230 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: forget to hit subscribe so there's a TVA episode waiting 231 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 2: for you. Every weekday morning, have a brilliant day.