1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date. Now, 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: before I get on to today's episode, I'm wondering, have 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: you ever wondered what happens behind the scenes of one 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: of my interviews? Maybe you haven't, but anyway, on October 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: eight I'm going to be doing a live interview for 10 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: How I Work in Melbourne with Australia's most fascinating, controversial 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: and quirky consumer psychologist, Adam Ferrier. You might have seen 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: Adam on Gruin or The Project talking about advertising and 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: consumer behavior, and Adam's also the co founder of thinker Bell, 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: an agency that fuses together marketing science with hardcore creativity 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: and was awarded Agency of the Year in twenty eighteen. 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: I've known Adam for over a decade and I'm really 17 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: looking forward to this chat because Adam's views are very contrarian. 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: We are going to be covering things such as how 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: Adam's built his own personal brand, which has done an 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: amazing job of how he's refined his own personal brand, positioning, 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: balancing work with fatherhood, where his best ideas come from 22 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: faking it till you make it, which is some good 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: advice Adam gave me many many years ago, and many 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: other topics. I'm going to be doing the interview and 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: invent him's Melbourne office, and I would love you to 26 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 1: come along to my chat with Adam Ferrier. So booked 27 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: today before it sells out. You can simply go to 28 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: bitlybit dot ly forward slash how I Work Adam, and 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: I'll link to that url and the show notes too, 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: And if you do come along, make sure you come 31 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: up and say hi. So back in April twenty nineteen, 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: I attended ten twenty nineteen in Vancouver and recorded a 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: bunch of interviews with some very inspiring speakers and attendees 34 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: while I was over there. Kevin Rose was one of 35 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: those interviews. So. Kevin founded the social news site dig 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: and was a general partner at Google Ventures, where he 37 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: invested in companies like Ripple, Bluebottle, Medium, and Nextdoor. Prior 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: to that, Kevin began his investing career as an angel 39 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: investor in some companies he might have heard of, like Twitter, Facebook, 40 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: and Square. Kevin also hosts the podcast The Kevin Rose Show, 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: where he dissects how high performers like Tony Robbins, Tim Ferriss, 42 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: and Elon Musk have achieved such great performance. And I 43 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: must say it's an awesome podcast that he has. Now, 44 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: this extract of my interview with Kevin starts off with 45 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: me asking him about his approach to networking at conferences 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: like TED, because I'd heard him describe himself in other 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: interviews as socially awkward. So let's hear about how Kevin 48 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: really approaches events so that he can thrive even as 49 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: a self confessed socially awkward person. 50 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really difficult, you know, I was thinking about 51 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about this recently because I first 52 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: attended back in two thousand and eight, was my first 53 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: HEAD and I basically just went to the talks and 54 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: then went back to my hotel room and kind of 55 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: just hung out, you know, because I didn't really want 56 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: to like meet new people. It's like really like intimidating 57 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: and just walking. I was never one of those people 58 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: just to walk up to someone and be like Hey, like, 59 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: random person I don't know. My name's Kevin, nice to meet, 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: let's talk. Like I can't do that. I'm not I'm 61 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: horrible icebreakers. I don't like. I think they're so cheesy 62 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: when you're like, how's the weather's crazy? It's rain and 63 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: isn't it like you know, it's like I just I 64 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: didn't really know what to do. So I still have 65 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: a lot of hard I have a pretty hard time 66 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: with this type of stuff. So for me, it's like 67 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: if I it's much easier when you're with friends and 68 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: you have like a buddy that is like someone that 69 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: is you can look to and say, Okay, well we're 70 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: going to do this together. And you're both geeks and 71 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: a little awkward, so you go into these parties and 72 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: events together. So I try and kind of like seek 73 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: out those few people that I do know that have 74 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: been before and be like, hey, what are you doing tonight? 75 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: Maybe we should meet up, and like that just like 76 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: makes things just so much easier. I would always go 77 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: a little bit late to parties because I find that 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: once people had like a drink in them, it makes 79 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: them a lot more like just like laid back and 80 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: easier to approach people a lot more open to like 81 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: meeting new people. And that also makes me drink one 82 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: less drink because I will always like trying not to 83 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 2: like drink too much, you know, because I obviously want 84 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: to be up early the next day and really enjoy 85 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: the talks and not be hungover or anything like that. 86 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 2: So I was just thinking about strategies of how I 87 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: could delay having to have a drink, and going and 88 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: getting a bitters and soda at the bar is really 89 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: key for that as well, because it looks like a 90 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 2: drink and you can hold it in your hand, you 91 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: can seem like you're social. I still have a couple drinks, 92 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: but I like to limit it too, you know, because 93 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: I am just like old now and like I get hungover. 94 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 2: It's rolling the dice. 95 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: Anything past that, particularly with two young kids. 96 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially don't want to do exactly like that just 97 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: makes it ten times worse. So yeah, I don't have 98 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: a perfect answer for that. It's it's really been challenging 99 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: because I have been such a geek and it's weird 100 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 2: because when I do podcasts, I feel like I can 101 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: turn it on and just be like someone that is 102 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 2: not myself. It's me but it's like an exaggerated, over 103 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 2: the top version because I know that, like, you know, 104 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: kind of have to perform and be loud for a 105 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: microphone and get talk a little bit louder than you 106 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: normally would and all those things. But it's still it's 107 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: still a challenge to break out of that shell. How 108 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: do you do it? 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, it's funny. It's almost like the different hats 110 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: that I wear. I do a lot of keynote speaking, 111 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that's okay, Like I've kind of 112 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: been given permission to talk, so that's all right. And 113 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: I found that I was so shy in school, but 114 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: drama class gave me an outlet because I had that permission. 115 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing. It's like, I feel 116 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: like socially awkward people don't feel like they've got permission 117 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: to talk. So I feel like if I've got permission, 118 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: like in the podcast, for example, we've both got permission 119 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: because they both hosted a podcast. 120 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: So it's actually a great point. 121 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what it's been for me. Do 122 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: you do you have like go to questions? Because I've 123 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: heard the like you're not into small talk, nor am 124 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: I it feels quite wasteful in terms of time, Like 125 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: do you have go to strategies or questions that just 126 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: to kind of cut to the chase when you're meeting 127 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: someone for the first time. 128 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I try to find something that is a that 129 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: is not small talk, but is also a mutual kind 130 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: of interest, like something that's really kind of I don't know, 131 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: there's a bunch of wacky things that I'm into. And 132 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: so you know when people say, like, what have you 133 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: been up to lately, because that's a common thing, or 134 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: what's what's new, and I'll just say, like if someone 135 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: were to say to me, what's new at this ted, 136 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: I would say, well, just before I left, I finished 137 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: taking these logs that I found or that I had 138 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: cut down from this tree, and I've been brushing them 139 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: down so that I canoculate them with mushroom spores because 140 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: I want to grow some culinary mushrooms this spring, and 141 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: so I'm trying to I bought these inoculated wood pegs 142 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: that you drill into the logs and then you hammer 143 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: them in with a hammer and then cover them with wax, 144 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: and then I place them in the backyard underneath the trees, 145 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: and then Ober three or four months will eventually grow 146 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: lines made mushrooms and so lines mainly are really good 147 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: for cognition, and it's just like something I'm really excited 148 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: to get into. So it's my first time kind of 149 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: inoculating these tree trunks with spores. 150 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: They're the ones in Force Sigmatic, Is that right? 151 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: The Force Sigmac definitely has a lines made. They have 152 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: corts apps for energy. They have a bunch of different 153 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: types of mushrooms, these kind of medicinal mushrooms. So I 154 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: don't know, that's something I'm kind of excited about. And 155 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: typically someone will be like whoa like tell me more, 156 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: Like I have this interest that's really wacky, you know, 157 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: and so I like getting to that because that's like, 158 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just something that's different that it's 159 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: fun to talk about, versus just being like, oh, it 160 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: sucks the weather, you know, because it's supposed to ran 161 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 2: the next few days. But like that type of stuff 162 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: is just really boring to me and I'd rather get 163 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: into something a little bit more medi. 164 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, So will you kind of consciously think about what 165 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: are the interesting things that I've been doing that I 166 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: can bring up? 167 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: So just likes Yeah, exactly that, and like themes I 168 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: hear about the conference, Like, I know a lot of 169 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: people here are into this psychedelic research that people have 170 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: been talking about, and I know there's some get togethers 171 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: for that, and so I don't know, that's something I 172 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: would love to chat with people about, or you know, 173 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: just things that I are themes of the conference, or 174 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: just something that is more than the casual you know, 175 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: list of five questions that people typically say at parties. 176 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: You know, yes, yes, that's a great strategy. I like 177 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: that and kind of the pre planning I think makes 178 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: you feel more prepared when you're going into conversations where 179 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: you just might get stuck. 180 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: Or something like that. I think that for me, I 181 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: tend to be like really into people that want to 182 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: try weird things throughout their life and just like to explore. 183 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: And like, just before I came down here, I kid 184 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 2: you not, this is like a half hour ago. I 185 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: was talking to my wife and she was like, I'm like, 186 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: have you ever heard this this website called Blueprint? She's like, no, 187 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: I don't think so wide. I'm like, oh, I just 188 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: bought it one of their kits and she's like, well, 189 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: what's the kit? I'm like, it's a knitting kit and 190 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: she goes, nig, what do you and I'm like, well, 191 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: I just want to learn how to knit, like I've 192 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: never I've never done knitting before, Like why not just 193 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: learn how to do it. It's gonna take me probably 194 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: three or four days. I'll make a scarf for something. 195 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: And I know that sounds completely weird, but like, I 196 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: don't know, it's just something I've never learned how to do, like, 197 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: and why not try something new like that. I tend 198 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 2: to do that at least four or five times a year, 199 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: just like pick something I've never done before. I took 200 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: a sewing class a few times, tried that. My dad 201 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 2: was like this too, though, like he was in a 202 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: cross stitch. He did that back in the day when 203 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: he heard that this NFL player that he liked was 204 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: in a cross stitch and did it for relaxation techniques. 205 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: So my dad was like, I'm going to try that. 206 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: And I just remember him doing woodwork, working and like 207 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 2: he was into fishing and all these different things where 208 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: he would just try his hand at different things. And 209 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 2: my mo Alm was kind of like that too. So 210 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: I don't know, I feel like I want to like 211 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: meet people that are always exploring and are lifelong learners. 212 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: To me, that's really like fascinating, and so I try 213 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: to throw those things out there, like what are you 214 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 2: into these days? Like what are you trying that's new 215 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: and exciting? And people typically have like a book to 216 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: recommend or you know, that's another great one. I always 217 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: like asking that question, like what's like a book that 218 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 2: you've read recently that I'm looking for a new book? 219 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: You know, and like oftentimes I am, because I tend 220 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: to plow through audible books pretty fast, and I'll say, like, 221 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 2: what's something you've read the last six months that you're 222 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: really excited about or you could share with me? And 223 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 2: people typically have something they're pretty stoked on. 224 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: Hello me again. I hope you found this chat useful. 225 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: My chat with Kevin definitely made me rethink how I 226 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: prepare for networking type events where I must say I 227 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: feel deeply uncomfortable at these events. So now I've stunted 228 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: preparing things that I can share with people, like interesting 229 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: stuff that I'm doing in my life, and I find 230 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: that that helps me be a bit more confident. So 231 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: that's it for If you like this excerpt, you might 232 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: want to listen to my full chat with Kevin, which 233 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: I'll link to in the show notes. And if you're 234 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: enjoying how I work, I'd love it if you could 235 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: take five seconds to leave a review in Apple Podcasts 236 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to this from. So leaving reviews 237 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: actually makes it easier for other people to find this podcast. 238 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: And thank you to all the wonderful people who have 239 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: left five star reviews and written some lovely words. It 240 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: completely makes my day, So thank you and I'll see 241 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: you next time.