Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
Speaker 1: hottest influenza and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
Speaker 1: Amy Torber and coming up on today's show, The Kate
Speaker 1: Forster and Sarbi Store TikTok blood Bath, Michael Finch opens
Speaker 1: up about hitting rock bottom, and Andre Ribello is found
Speaker 1: guilty of murdering his mother. But first, Tammy Hembro and
Speaker 1: Matt Zakowski have surprised their followers by opting for a
Speaker 1: winter honeymoon in Lapland. It looks so Christmasy and magical there.
Speaker 1: It is the perfect time of year to go to Lapland.
Speaker 1: But I did think that they might go back to
Speaker 1: the Maldives, Yeah, because that's where they got engaged. I
Speaker 1: think everyone thought that they would opt for a hot honeymoon.
Speaker 1: But it sort of makes sense because they're from the
Speaker 1: Gold Coast. They travel whenever they want. You know, Tammy's
Speaker 1: got the money to do so, so they're probably thinking,
Speaker 1: what's something a little bit different. I also think they
Speaker 1: wanted to make a bit of a statement with their
Speaker 1: choice of honeymoon location. I mean, their whole wedding has
Speaker 1: been a statement so far, and the fact that They're
Speaker 1: doing something so different is creating a lot of attention
Speaker 1: and engagement. Surely there is some kind of sponsorship agreement
Speaker 1: going on, even if it was just Lapland's Tourism Commission
Speaker 1: sponsoring this holiday. Because there have been so many epic
Speaker 1: tiktoks that Tammy has shared, it's made me feel like
Speaker 1: I need to go to Lapland. Like the shots they
Speaker 1: got of the northern lights at their resort. I also
Speaker 1: want to know did they have someone following them around.
Speaker 2: Filming these videos.
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that, because they actually ended up
Speaker 1: getting locked out of their cabin because they wanted to
Speaker 1: do a little photo shoot. So Tammy asked Matt to
Speaker 1: take some photos of her, and she reminded him to
Speaker 1: grab the key card, but he forgot and they ended
Speaker 1: up being stranded for quite some time outside.
Speaker 2: They actually had to seek.
Speaker 1: Refuge in this half built cabin because it was so cold.
Speaker 1: This happened to some friends of mine who were holidaying
Speaker 1: in the snow. So they went out to have a
Speaker 1: spa and decided to skinny dip and they got locked
Speaker 1: out of their chalet. And it was only out of
Speaker 1: luck that the person who owned the Airbnb popped by
Speaker 1: to see if they're okay.
Speaker 2: They're like, we could have died. That is my worst man.
Speaker 1: Going back to whether this is a sponsored trip or
Speaker 1: there's elements that are gifted, I think it could be
Speaker 1: because Tammy has posted the name of the accommodation a
Speaker 1: number of times, so they're staying at the Aurora Collection
Speaker 1: Laplan Resort, and the Daily Mail is reporting that the
Speaker 1: accommodation is costing as much as one thy one hundred
Speaker 1: per night, which I actually thought was low balling it
Speaker 1: because I definitely think that they're spending a lot more.
Speaker 1: I had a look on the accommodation's website and they
Speaker 1: offer a four night package, so for four nights is
Speaker 1: two nine hundred and sixty five dollars per person, and
Speaker 1: with that it includes a lot of the activities that
Speaker 1: they're doing. So the activities range from a husky safari,
Speaker 1: a reindeer safari, and also Arctic ice karting. I've seen
Speaker 1: them do a couple of those activities so far. What
Speaker 1: they seem to be spending most of their time doing
Speaker 1: is watching Christmas movies, though which I can get around.
Speaker 1: It looks so magical. It's quite romantic as well. A
Speaker 1: lot of people were calling Tammy and Matt's wedding the
Speaker 1: content wedding, and I needed a palate cleanser from them,
Speaker 1: and this honey moon has provided the goods. I'm really
Speaker 1: enjoying seeing it, but it may get to a point
Speaker 1: where I'm sick of it. I think that happens with
Speaker 1: when anyone.
Speaker 2: Goes on holiday.
Speaker 1: Though you enjoyed the first couple of bits of content
Speaker 1: and then you're like, can you just get back? It
Speaker 1: was getting mass views on TikTok, and it makes me
Speaker 1: think that it was a strategy to choose somewhere that
Speaker 1: was out of the norm. Like if they went to
Speaker 1: the Maule Dives again, everyone would.
Speaker 2: Be like yawn.
Speaker 1: But the fact that they've gone somewhere like Finland, which
Speaker 1: you don't often hear about it looks so magical. But
Speaker 1: surely they're not sitting around saying, oh my god, let's
Speaker 1: pick our honeymoon location based.
Speaker 2: On what will shop TikTok. These people are content creators.
Speaker 1: I feel like, yes, it's not their whole reason for
Speaker 1: doing so, but I think it would take up some
Speaker 1: of their thinking. Matt literally referred to his wedding photography
Speaker 1: and videography as content, Like, of course they're thinking what
Speaker 1: is going to create the best content, and they have
Speaker 1: hit the nail on the head with this one. I
Speaker 1: actually think they're winning people over a little bit with
Speaker 1: their very cutesy, romantic content because there's been a lot
Speaker 1: more positive comments about Matt in particularly see. I actually
Speaker 1: kind of found it funny because it looked like they
Speaker 1: were getting on each other's nerves because everyone says that
Speaker 1: the honeymoon, Like, I'm actually not referencing my honeymoon here
Speaker 1: because I did recently get back. But it's funny because
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, honeymoons can be actually the
Speaker 1: place where a lot of arguments happen, because you know,
Speaker 1: all of the hype from the wedding has ended and
Speaker 1: it's just the two of you now focusing on maybe
Speaker 1: each other's little quirks. And there were instances where I
Speaker 1: was wondering, I wonder if they're getting on each other's
Speaker 1: nerves because Tammy didn't look too pleased about getting locked
Speaker 1: out of the cabin due to me. People are just
Speaker 1: surprised that the marriage has lasted to the honeymoon.
Speaker 3: Hi, Tim, and welcome to fag town. So what I'm
Speaker 3: going to do here is put all the shit up
Speaker 3: that I can't put up on fucking TikTok because I
Speaker 3: hope are annoying.
Speaker 1: TikTok is divided after author Kate Forster pointed out that
Speaker 1: local clothing brand Sabi is following Donald Trump in what's
Speaker 1: been described as an internet blood bath. The latest controversy
Speaker 1: has sparked death threats, mass reportings, and cancelation. Now, so
Speaker 1: before we get into the drama, can you get listeners
Speaker 1: up to speed.
Speaker 2: With who Kate Forster is.
Speaker 1: She is an author who has really exploded in popularity
Speaker 1: on TikTok this year. In the space of a few months,
Speaker 1: she gained ninety five thousand followers on TikTok. And what
Speaker 1: really makes her stand out is that she's not afraid
Speaker 1: to share her opinion, which I think all of us
Speaker 1: have found really refreshing this year because she's so funny.
Speaker 1: She doesn't take herself too seriously, and she doesn't play
Speaker 1: into a lot of the games that we see influencers
Speaker 1: or TikTokers playing into, like you know, those people who
Speaker 1: just want to keep their little click happy and try
Speaker 1: and say the right thing. I think That's why she
Speaker 1: is so divisive and people are so threatened by her
Speaker 1: at the moment because she doesn't just fit into this
Speaker 1: influencer click that we've come to know, and she doesn't
Speaker 1: care who she upsets. Well, yeah, you don't know what's
Speaker 1: coming out of her mouth neck, but you know that
Speaker 1: what she's saying she has conviction in and actually believes in. Now,
Speaker 1: she's also known for sharing fashion reviews and also encouraging
Speaker 1: her audience not to be sheep and to support local businesses.
Speaker 1: So she's all about encouraging her followers to not just
Speaker 1: buy the brands that fashion influencers are promoting and getting
Speaker 1: kickbacks from. Yeah, and she gained a massive amount of
Speaker 1: traction back in August when she called out the viral
Speaker 1: Henny cardigan. So we covered that story in death. But
Speaker 1: at the time, the fifty three year old simply question
Speaker 1: why young people all want to look the same and
Speaker 1: are wearing this specific cult cardigan, which was created by
Speaker 1: influencer Nadia Bartel's label Henny Now. This led to Kate
Speaker 1: receiving prank calls and even death threats. It also resulted
Speaker 1: in her developing an even stronger follower base. I know
Speaker 1: I followed her after this drama. Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 1: people did. Now let's get into this latest controversy. And
Speaker 1: as we touched on, Kate often creates fashion reviews and
Speaker 1: she received an influx of messages from followers asking her
Speaker 1: to look into a local brand called Sabi. And this
Speaker 1: brand is known for selling oversized T shirts with positive
Speaker 1: affirmations across them, and it's owned by a husband and
Speaker 1: wife team called Jace McDonald and Ashtadu who live in
Speaker 1: Queen Now, some of Kate's followers had noticed that a
Speaker 1: growing number of Mummy influencers had started wearing Sarb's shirts,
Speaker 1: and all of those influences held very far right views.
Speaker 1: Now it is unclear if those influences were gifted the
Speaker 1: shirts or if they were just organically wearing them, And
Speaker 1: this led Kate to do some research into SARB and
Speaker 1: she quickly discovered that one of the owners, Jace, was
Speaker 1: following Donald Trump on his personal account. Now he was
Speaker 1: also following podcaster Joe Rogan, who heavily supported Trump's campaign. Now,
Speaker 1: this led Kate to create a TikTok video connecting the dots,
Speaker 1: saying it kind of seems like the brand's co owner
Speaker 1: is a Trump supporter. She then referenced the problematic Mummy
Speaker 1: influencers who were wearing the brand and explained that a
Speaker 1: lot of them share anti vax and also anti suncream views. Now,
Speaker 1: she didn't blame Sarby for it, but she pointed out
Speaker 1: that if Sarb's views don't align with these influences very
Speaker 1: far right views, then they should touch with them and
Speaker 1: say don't wear ushirt. I don't know if you can
Speaker 1: tell someone not to wear your brand if they've purchased it.
Speaker 1: I mean you can obviously say, look, if we've gifted
Speaker 1: you something and you're going to be spouting our offensive things,
Speaker 1: we prefer you not to wear our clothes. I mean
Speaker 1: that is very dependent on what the relationship is between
Speaker 1: the brand and the influencer. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: Kate has used this as an example, because she must
Speaker 1: know that this brand has gifted these influences these T shirts,
Speaker 1: and she's trying to point out that clearly they all
Speaker 1: have the same views and all their views aligned, and
Speaker 1: that's why they're wearing.
Speaker 2: The T shirt.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and that's the thing, because if these influencers
Speaker 1: have been organic customers and purchased them themselves. I don't
Speaker 1: think that the brand necessarily has the right to tell
Speaker 1: people that you're not allowed to wear, and it would
Speaker 1: be very difficult for a brand to say, actually, don't
Speaker 1: wear that, Like what control do they have over people
Speaker 1: wearing their items of clothing?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: As always on TikTok, the response was very mixed to
Speaker 1: Kate's video, so there were some followers who immediately started
Speaker 1: accusing Ash and Jason being Trump supporters and threatening to
Speaker 1: boycott the brand. TikTok videos also started surfacing of Sarbi
Speaker 1: customers clarifying that whilst they have worn the t shirts
Speaker 1: in the past, they have left leaning views. They were
Speaker 1: quite funny on the flip side, Kate started receiving an
Speaker 1: influx of hate from some Sabi supporters and.
Speaker 2: Also death threats.
Speaker 1: I just think it's so wild that this woman has
Speaker 1: received so many death threats for simply pointing out who
Speaker 1: the brand is followed. But I think it's much greater
Speaker 1: than that in terms of it's not just about fashion.
Speaker 1: This is about politics and how fashion and politics intersect,
Speaker 1: and that's.
Speaker 2: Why people are so upset.
Speaker 1: It is being alleged that one of the Sabi owners
Speaker 1: posted a TikTok in response to Kate's video threatening her.
Speaker 1: Now those claims have come from Internet sleuths who say
Speaker 1: that the video was quickly taken down, So I want
Speaker 1: to reiterate that is just an allegation. There is no
Speaker 1: proof of this video still being online. I had actually
Speaker 1: never heard of the brand Sabi until this TikTok drama.
Speaker 1: But all I could think of was the Sabi and
Speaker 1: Soul who were caught up in that Moroccan pillow drama
Speaker 1: with Sarah's Dave Rember that a.
Speaker 2: Few years ago.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, these poor bastards. Have they
Speaker 1: been dragged into something again. But I can confirm this
Speaker 1: is a completely separate business. This is the danger with
Speaker 1: TikTok and how quickly things spread. And also when you
Speaker 1: like I think I've heard of that brand, I actually
Speaker 1: thought of Sabo skirt, which are not in any way
Speaker 1: attached to this brand.
Speaker 2: Eiough Well.
Speaker 1: Sabi have addressed the controversy on their Instagram account, so
Speaker 1: they wrote legends we just wanted to quickly address some
Speaker 1: things that are currently going on. We really didn't want
Speaker 1: to get involved and it goes against everything we stand
Speaker 1: for here at Sabi. We would never condone bullying people
Speaker 1: or brands online. So this is the one and only
Speaker 1: statement we will be making. Our entire brand is built
Speaker 1: upon building people up and helping them feel happy and
Speaker 1: confident while wearing our brand. These comments and the video
Speaker 1: that have been shared by people online are not a
Speaker 1: true representation of myself and Jas. It's unfortunate that people
Speaker 1: can take things out of context and spread rumors and
Speaker 1: missing information about us online. Our little brand means the
Speaker 1: world to us and our customers mean the world to us,
Speaker 1: and we know there are a lot of you all
Speaker 1: standing up for us on these posts.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you, but.
Speaker 1: Ultimately all we want is for everyone to interact in
Speaker 1: a positive way that doesn't tear others down. We just
Speaker 1: hope everyone can choose their words wisely as words have
Speaker 1: power and our actions are online forever.
Speaker 2: Big love, Jace and Ash.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: The reason why that statement has been included in full
Speaker 1: is because the one thing that stood out to me
Speaker 1: is that nowhere did they say we do not politically
Speaker 1: align with Donald Trump, and one follower called them out
Speaker 1: on the obvious admission, saying, maybe you should make it
Speaker 1: clear if you actually support Trump and right wing views
Speaker 1: or not now. Sabi responded, saying this, we didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk about our political views because we aren't political.
Speaker 1: Jace in no way supports his views and values. Back
Speaker 1: when he first got into government, he was threatening to
Speaker 1: put tariffs on clothing importations to protect the US ACA
Speaker 1: Jays had a factory in China with huge US orders,
Speaker 1: as if we wouldn't want to know everything and anything
Speaker 1: to do with it. Also, he is now sitting there
Speaker 1: culling who he follows and who he doesn't years later.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely insane that people jump to conclusions. Jace is
Speaker 1: pro you and whoever you want to be, and all
Speaker 1: about leaving a positive impact on the world. To me,
Speaker 1: I think that they originally didn't touch on who they
Speaker 1: support because they didn't want to offend any customers who
Speaker 1: may support Donald Trump, because they would be ostracizing a
Speaker 1: collection of their customers. Well, it's a pretty common thing
Speaker 1: not to get political when it comes to business, because
Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of companies having to backflip, Like recently,
Speaker 1: there was a chain of pubs that came out and
Speaker 1: said that they were would not be supporting Australia Day
Speaker 1: and not be having any celebrations in their pubs literally
Speaker 1: twenty four hours after they had to backflip because they
Speaker 1: got so many complaints. So I understand why they didn't
Speaker 1: initially put it in the statement. However, the way TikTok
Speaker 1: works is that the audience were never going to be
Speaker 1: happy with that statement. I actually disagree from a pr perspective.
Speaker 1: I think it was incredibly important for the owners of
Speaker 1: the brand to refute these claims and say, just because
Speaker 1: Jason's following Donald Trump, it doesn't mean that he supports
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's policies. Because Donald Trump is obviously known for
Speaker 1: not caring about women's rights, He's made homophobic, racist comments
Speaker 1: if but no one's here saying that Donald Trump is
Speaker 1: a good guy. Like It's obviously not a great brand
Speaker 1: move to align, particularly from a female brand, to align
Speaker 1: with Donald Trump. But the issue is that I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people on TikTok and in the world,
Speaker 1: and this is why everyone a lot of people were
Speaker 1: shocked by the election result. Is they operate in silos
Speaker 1: where people think, oh, Donald Trump is the devil. Of course,
Speaker 1: no one would ever want to support him, but I mean,
Speaker 1: the guy got voted in. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: people that support him and the business wouldn't have wanted
Speaker 1: to come out and offend those people that did. Particularly,
Speaker 1: it seems like they do a line. But does it
Speaker 1: mean now that if you follow somebody on social media
Speaker 1: that means you one hundred percent support them. Because Abby
Speaker 1: Chatfield has also weighed into this debate, and we will
Speaker 1: get into what she has said later, but I remember
Speaker 1: Abby had to come out and say, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I follow all of these people who I don't actually
Speaker 1: support their views, but I followed them because I want
Speaker 1: to be up to date on what's happening in the world.
Speaker 1: I mean, for example, a lot of journalists would be
Speaker 1: following Donald Trump. It doesn't mean that they support him
Speaker 1: and believe in his views. It's to keep track of
Speaker 1: what he's doing. Well, I went and looked at who
Speaker 1: followed Donald Trump from Outspoken's name, and quite a number.
Speaker 2: Of high profile people did.
Speaker 1: Again, I think that that is something that they should
Speaker 1: have touched on in the statement, because you know their
Speaker 1: point of view. Saying, oh, Jase's following him because of
Speaker 1: the tariffs that he's putting on clothing. That seem like
Speaker 1: a pretty fair enough statement. But that's something that should
Speaker 1: have been mentioned in the initial statement, not as a
Speaker 1: response to someone's question. They just thought, from a pr perspective,
Speaker 1: it's best not to actually touch on this controversial part.
Speaker 1: I'm always really fascinated to hear what actually goes on
Speaker 1: behind the scenes when someone finds themselves in the middle
Speaker 1: of an Internet controversy like this. And Ash and Jace
Speaker 1: were interviewed by news dot com and they said that
Speaker 1: they were shocked when they first learned of the backlash.
Speaker 1: So they were sitting at their desk and they got
Speaker 1: a call from a Stockers who was like, people are
Speaker 1: debating onliner. You guys right wing or left wing? And
Speaker 1: the Stockers then said, apparently you guys followed Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: And they said they were so confused because Sabi itself
Speaker 1: doesn't follow Donald Trump, and Ash's account didn't follow Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: And then of course they worked out that Jase has
Speaker 1: been following him and had been following him.
Speaker 2: For over a decade.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: Ash got really overwhelmed because it got to the point
Speaker 1: where people were trawling through their personal Facebook accounts and
Speaker 1: looking for clues about their political alignment. And she said
Speaker 1: she felt sick all weekend and couldn't eat. Now, this
Speaker 1: just really demonstrates the toll that it took on her,
Speaker 1: and Jay said he found the backlash ridiculous and couldn't
Speaker 1: believe there was discussion around who or who didn't buy
Speaker 1: and wear the t shirts. He said, it's hard you're
Speaker 1: always offending somebody. Why do people need to know our
Speaker 1: political beliefs to buy our clothes? He continued, saying if
Speaker 1: he believed in Donald Trump, he'd come out and say
Speaker 1: sober in gen he said, I don't care if you
Speaker 1: do or not. Now, I do want to point out
Speaker 1: that the article did state that the couple do not
Speaker 1: support Trump, but there wasn't a direct quote from Jay
Speaker 1: saying it. And this controversy has gone viral on TikTok,
Speaker 1: with creators weighing in on the drama and picking if
Speaker 1: their team Kate or Team Sarby. It's even led to
Speaker 1: high profile names in the media and influencer landscape also
Speaker 1: weighing in. Yeah, so she's on the money. Podcast host
Speaker 1: Victoria Devine shared her views on the controversy, and she
Speaker 1: appeared to be shocked that some corners of the internet
Speaker 1: were siding with Kate Forster.
Speaker 2: Here's what she said.
Speaker 4: I'm so done with people coming in to defend someone
Speaker 4: who has made their entire brand snarking other women, like
Speaker 4: why are you coming in and being like, oh, well,
Speaker 4: she never said that exactly, or no, she never knew
Speaker 4: who that person was to begin with, or she never
Speaker 4: meant it that way. Didn't you watch her entire five
Speaker 4: to ten minute rant, like I'm sorry. That content made
Speaker 4: with the intention of bringing other women down. It was
Speaker 4: made with the intention of making them feel bad about
Speaker 4: what they're wearing or what they're doing, or how that
Speaker 4: they are doing it, and calling them sheep or calling them,
Speaker 4: you know, copy pastes of other.
Speaker 2: People, like it's actually just ick.
Speaker 4: That content wasn't made with the intention of lifting women
Speaker 4: up and making them feel good about themselves or helping
Speaker 4: them be in a better position. It was literally made
Speaker 4: with the intention of making you snarky against other women.
Speaker 4: And now you're defending the person who said that.
Speaker 1: Victoria continued saying she's not naming names because she can't
Speaker 1: be bothered. But if followers were going to draw the
Speaker 1: inference about what she's talking about, then the shoe probably fits.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 1: This isn't the first time Victoria has commented on online
Speaker 1: controversies surrounding Kate Forster. So during the viral Henny Cardigan's saga,
Speaker 1: Victoria showed her support for a fashion TikToker who came
Speaker 1: up against Kate, writing under the post, it's not even
Speaker 1: being passive aggressive, she's being a bully. I can't believe
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four so many people are supportive of
Speaker 1: her content. I think there has been a bit of
Speaker 1: back and forth between the two and they both won't
Speaker 1: name one another when talking about one another. Victoria had
Speaker 1: a pretty mixed response in her comment section. There were
Speaker 1: some people who supported her sentiment, whilst others strongly disagreed.
Speaker 1: So one user wrote, I don't agree with this. I
Speaker 1: don't think Kate was ever trying to tear women down
Speaker 1: at all. She is a critical thinker on TikTok and
Speaker 1: I actually quite like her approach to talking about fashion.
Speaker 1: I watched her video. It wasn't that deep. She never
Speaker 1: tore down an individual person, just had an interesting perspective
Speaker 1: on a brand. I think the backlash of the comments
Speaker 1: is what's gotten out of hand. Whilst another commented the
Speaker 1: irony of a woman ragging on another woman for ragging
Speaker 1: on another woman. Come on, ladies, see I thought that
Speaker 1: when I was watching it, because I find it a
Speaker 1: very lazy argument that whenever a woman critiques or analyzes
Speaker 1: another woman's behavior, that people go, oh, shouldn't women be
Speaker 1: supporting women? I mean, we cop it a lot, so
Speaker 1: that's why I'm a little bit defensive about it. Just
Speaker 1: because you're a woman, it doesn't mean you have to
Speaker 1: blindly agree with all women, because funnily enough, women all
Speaker 1: share different opinions and points of view, and it's actually
Speaker 1: unfeminist just to support someone because you're the same gender. Like,
Speaker 1: I just find it such an interesting argument. I think
Speaker 1: people forget that feminism is about equality, so we can
Speaker 1: equally critique men and women if.
Speaker 2: We are a woman.
Speaker 1: Now. Abby Chatfield was also asked to weigh in on
Speaker 1: the drama, and she strongly threw her support behind Kate Forster,
Speaker 1: calling her her very own Julian Assange. Let's listen to
Speaker 1: part of what she said.
Speaker 6: It's just interesting that Kate pointing out that someone follows
Speaker 6: a political leader is so scary to people because they
Speaker 6: know she's.
Speaker 5: An awful person.
Speaker 2: They know that it isn't the right thing to do.
Speaker 6: So instead of being like, hmm, maybe me, a commenter
Speaker 6: should think about where my morals lie. They instead attack
Speaker 6: Kate and get mad at her. Main thing is that
Speaker 6: no one should be sending Kate force to death threats
Speaker 6: or threats of violence because she pointed out something that
Speaker 6: was a fact. She didn't lie, she didn't make anything up.
Speaker 6: She just noticed something and she pointed it out. It's
Speaker 6: not really fair to shoot the messenger. And if you're
Speaker 6: commenting anything abusive to Kate or making videos saying that she's.
Speaker 5: A bully, I really want you to check your internalized misogyny.
Speaker 6: I really want you to maybe look into what activism
Speaker 6: is a little bit, and I want you to reevaluate
Speaker 6: your own.
Speaker 5: Moral coumbas seems extreme, but I want you to reevaluate
Speaker 5: your own value system and why you're so angry that
Speaker 5: someone pointed out the truth like it's giving persecuting Juliane Massange.
Speaker 6: Kate is mine, Julie Massage, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: She's a wiki leaks right now, not her fault that
Speaker 6: they did it.
Speaker 1: I find it very interesting the vitriol that is thrown
Speaker 1: at people like Abby Chatfield and Kate Forster, because I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't know what to do
Speaker 1: with them because they don't want to align with a
Speaker 1: group of influencers or a group of media personalities. They
Speaker 1: don't care who they piss off, and that is very
Speaker 1: threatening to a group of people who don't want to
Speaker 1: be called out. And there is a click of influencers
Speaker 1: that We've spoken about this a lot, you know, Clementine
Speaker 1: Ford has spoken about the cool group, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call this group of people. It gets bigger and
Speaker 1: bigger to the point where if anyone ever says anything
Speaker 1: against these people, they've got a bunch of other high
Speaker 1: profile people to back them up.
Speaker 2: And that's not what we want either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because even when you look at the
Speaker 1: fact that Kate Forster called out a lot of influencers
Speaker 1: for all wearing the Henny cardigan, it seemed like it really.
Speaker 2: Hurt their feelings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a lot of offense, like oh my god,
Speaker 1: when in actual fact, what they probably didn't like Kate
Speaker 1: pointing out is that they all get kickbacks for promoting
Speaker 1: that cardigan constantly through their affiliate leaks. And what I
Speaker 1: find funny is people will call Abby or Kate bullies,
Speaker 1: but to me, a bullying behavior is when you gang
Speaker 1: up on someone and leave people out, and that's what's
Speaker 1: been happening online. And there was no bullying or snark
Speaker 1: in Kate's post about Sarbi anyway. I hate the way
Speaker 1: that the word bullying is being thrown around because all
Speaker 1: she did was review a local brand that she was
Speaker 1: asked to review, and in this instance, I think her
Speaker 1: intention was to help her audience make informed choices about
Speaker 1: who they want to support with their funds. And let's
Speaker 1: be honest, it wasn't just the fact that this owner
Speaker 1: was following Donald Trump. She was connecting the dots of
Speaker 1: quite controversial right wing influences suddenly popping up wearing these
Speaker 1: positive affirmation tis who most probably were gifted those T
Speaker 1: shirts from the brand. Now Abby then offered up some
Speaker 1: free pr advice, saying, if Sarbi don't actually support Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: then create a TikTok clarifying it.
Speaker 2: Here's what she said.
Speaker 6: Who knows if them following Donald Trump means they support him,
Speaker 6: It could just mean it follow him because they think
Speaker 6: he's so horrific.
Speaker 2: If that is the case, they could do a video.
Speaker 6: If you're watching this, if you don't actually support him,
Speaker 6: I reckon do a video and just be like guys,
Speaker 6: we follow him because he's so cozy, like just I.
Speaker 5: Think that could be cleared up very easily.
Speaker 6: So there is a chance that them following Donald Trump
Speaker 6: isn't them supporting him.
Speaker 1: I think she's right because they've sort of been tiptoeing
Speaker 1: around who they support and who they don't support. Have
Speaker 1: seem like they don't want to offend anyone, but at
Speaker 1: the same time, being neutral is offending both parties almost,
Speaker 1: like I think it looks like they have something to
Speaker 1: hide when maybe they don't. That's why it's really dangerous
Speaker 1: for brands to be on TikTok if they haven't fully
Speaker 1: formulated what they stand for as a brand, if they
Speaker 1: don't know their core values inside out, if they're not
Speaker 1: picking the right influences, because if you're marketing your product
Speaker 1: at young women, then you have to be very careful
Speaker 1: because they are expecting more and more from brands. Well,
Speaker 1: it's because people find it hypocritical to have these positive
Speaker 1: affirmations splashed across a T shirt but then be potentially
Speaker 1: supporting some who was so negative. It's crazy as well
Speaker 1: that this isn't even a US company, like this is
Speaker 1: happening in Australia. It shows you how strongly people feel
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump and it just actually has been elected.
Speaker 1: But also it is a statement the influencers you choose. Now,
Speaker 1: they haven't come out and said whether they hand selected
Speaker 1: these influences or if they organically wore the T shirts,
Speaker 1: but if it is the case and they have selected them,
Speaker 1: that sends a statement of what your core values are.
Speaker 2: It's more complicated these days to have a business now.
Speaker 1: Following this shit storm, Kate Forster lost every single video
Speaker 1: on her TikTok account, so her page was mass reported
Speaker 1: in what really seemed like an attempt to silence her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she told her followers that she spoke to the team
Speaker 1: at TikTok in length and they informed her that it
Speaker 1: was mass fake reporting which lost all of her video
Speaker 1: So apparently that triggers every single video to be removed.
Speaker 1: It's not like a bot. Then someone's paid for a
Speaker 1: bot to report her page. Sounds like it. I really
Speaker 1: feel for her because she has spent months and months
Speaker 1: creating this content, and she's had so many clever videos
Speaker 1: which are either comedic or There's been a lot of
Speaker 1: time invested in these reviews, and she's really built a
Speaker 1: community by people sending those videos on so many people
Speaker 1: are asking her, can you please recreate some of the videos,
Speaker 1: but she said there's all this weird copywriting around it,
Speaker 1: so if she uploads a video that was similar, it
Speaker 1: gets removed. Now she ended up switching her account to
Speaker 1: private to stop people from reporting her, and it's unclear
Speaker 1: what she's going to do moving forward because this seems
Speaker 1: to be a real issue for her. People want to
Speaker 1: silence her, and people seems like they don't want women,
Speaker 1: particularly older women with a strong opinion. It's actually really
Speaker 1: disturbing that there's been this orchestrated effort to silence her,
Speaker 1: and now this is going to be an example of
Speaker 1: what you can do if you don't agree with someone's opinion.
Speaker 1: I mean, people are having a problem with her pointing
Speaker 1: out that this brand follows Trump. Isn't the behavior that
Speaker 1: you've just exhibited very trumpest.
Speaker 3: From appearing to live a glamorous life to the inside
Speaker 3: of a jail cell Andre Rabella is now facing a
Speaker 3: life life prison term.
Speaker 1: Yeer Andre Rebello has been found guilty of murdering his mother.
Speaker 1: A jury took two days to deliberate after the eight
Speaker 1: week trial. Prosecutors say Rebello killed his mother for money
Speaker 1: after taking out three life insurance policies in her name
Speaker 1: just days earlier. He'll be sentenced in April next year
Speaker 1: and is expected to get life in prison. Was anyone
Speaker 1: else pretty surprised to hear the news? Like from the onset,
Speaker 1: I thought he probably was guilty, but to actually have
Speaker 1: confirmation that this man murdered his mother, it just rocked
Speaker 1: me to my call that anyone.
Speaker 2: Could do that.
Speaker 1: I wasn't shocked, but I think it really did hit
Speaker 1: a nerve to know that this is actually what has happened,
Speaker 1: to know for a fact this is what happened, and
Speaker 1: more gruesome details have come out about the day. So
Speaker 1: it started off as a very normal day for Colleen Rebello.
Speaker 1: So she had dropped her son off at work at
Speaker 1: ten am and she came home and was visited by
Speaker 1: andre So he originally denied his mum on the day
Speaker 1: of her death. However, in court he revealed he did
Speaker 1: in fact visit her, but he said he just chatted
Speaker 1: about Gracie and their son over a coffee. Now prosecutors
Speaker 1: say that Andrea murdered his mother during this visit. Now,
Speaker 1: Colleen's cause of death was actually ruled inconclusive by the coroner,
Speaker 1: but it's alleged that Andre suffocated her with a pillow.
Speaker 1: It's then believed he removed his mother's clothes and placed
Speaker 1: her body in the shower to make it look like
Speaker 1: she'd had a medical episode and died of natural causes.
Speaker 1: And the saddest part is that at the time of
Speaker 1: her death she was happy and healthy. There was no
Speaker 1: animosity between her and her son. Can you imagine how
Speaker 1: horrifying her final moments would have been for her and
Speaker 1: how scarring this also was for Andre's brother, Fabian, because
Speaker 1: his mum was meant to go and pick him up
Speaker 1: from work at two pm, and when she didn't arrive,
Speaker 1: Fabian then returned home to discover her dead in the shower,
Speaker 1: so he called paramedics before calling his three siblings, and
Speaker 1: Andre was the last sibling to be called. Now, he
Speaker 1: ended up joining his siblings at their mother's home as
Speaker 1: police arrived, and at no point did Andre mention that
Speaker 1: he had seen his mum alive and well that day.
Speaker 1: What really shocked me is that police set up surveillance
Speaker 1: on Andre, so they planted a listening device in the
Speaker 1: bedroom that he shared with Grace Episcopo and also a
Speaker 1: camera with audio in their loundroom, so they were listening
Speaker 1: into conversations for over three months.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: Apparently these recordings made it very clear that Gracie was
Speaker 1: unaware that Andre had murdered Colleen, so that's why she
Speaker 1: was ruled out of this investigation. Now, I do want
Speaker 1: to talk about the reporting because, as we have previously discussed,
Speaker 1: Gracie has been front and center despite having nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the murder. And of course a murder trial
Speaker 1: of this nature, when a son kills their mother, it's
Speaker 1: going to have a bit of interest, but the interest
Speaker 1: was next level due to Gracie's profile. And it also
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with the motive that the
Speaker 1: prosecutors were pushing, because during the trial, the prosecutors alleged
Speaker 1: that the reason Andre killed his mond was to get
Speaker 1: money to fund the couple's lavish lifestyle, and this was
Speaker 1: an angle very much focused on by the media. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised because I watched quite a number of
Speaker 1: TV reports about this, and they had the perfect overlay
Speaker 1: for all of those claims. So they used a lot
Speaker 1: of vision from YouTube of Andre and Gracie on these
Speaker 1: extravagant holidays in the mal dives that showed him living
Speaker 1: the life, but it perfectly pictured his fall from Grace
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: Also the fact that he was.
Speaker 1: A reported cryptocurrency trader, like it just fit into that
Speaker 1: profile and that story. The reality of the situation is, yes,
Speaker 1: he was doing crypto on the side, but it was
Speaker 1: making him no money. He previously was actually a delivery
Speaker 1: driver for Coals and he was studying, and in his
Speaker 1: final year of study he gave it up to be
Speaker 1: Gracie's assistant and also to be the primary caregiver of
Speaker 1: their son. So Gracie was the breadwinner in this relationship.
Speaker 1: And I think I shocked a lot of people because
Speaker 1: his background, you know, working for Coals and studying wasn't
Speaker 1: really publicized.
Speaker 2: It was almost like, oh.
Speaker 1: He's this cryptocurrency bro who's very successful. And in the trial,
Speaker 1: the prosecutors tried to play up that there was this
Speaker 1: power in balance in Andrea and Gracie's relationship. So it
Speaker 1: was reported that Gracie was making six figures by twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: but the court was told the couple were spending more
Speaker 1: than they were actually making. Yeah, And it was at
Speaker 1: this point that Gracie's influencing career was taking off. She
Speaker 1: had a million followers on Instagram and was making good money. However,
Speaker 1: she had to support Andre and their son, And if
Speaker 1: you cast your mind back to twenty twenty, everyone was struggling.
Speaker 1: Brands were cutting marketing budgets.
Speaker 2: Everyone was losing their jobs.
Speaker 1: And it was at this point that Grace and Andre
Speaker 1: they were renting a house for eight eighty a week.
Speaker 1: This was this was before COVID, so that was very
Speaker 1: expensive at the time, and they all still expensive and
Speaker 1: they also had a big car loan for a Range Rover.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because when you are an influencer with
Speaker 1: a million followers on Instagram, it does come with a
Speaker 1: certain expectation and an image to uphold. And Gracie is
Speaker 1: a lifestyle influencer and her content is about promoting an
Speaker 1: enviable lifestyle with a nice home, clothes.
Speaker 2: And holidays.
Speaker 1: So she did have this image to uphold, and it's
Speaker 1: believed that Andre was feeling a lot of pressure about that.
Speaker 1: What does make me feel uncomfortable about some of this coverage, though,
Speaker 1: is the implication that Gracie was pushing this lifestyle or
Speaker 1: that she had anything to do with this murder because it's.
Speaker 2: So far from the truth.
Speaker 1: Katie obviously got involved in his own lives, like if
Speaker 1: he was making up lives that he's made all of
Speaker 1: this money off crypto. There are a lot of skeletons
Speaker 1: obviously in his closet. And I think it's really unfair
Speaker 1: that Gracie isn't being portrayed as a victim in this case.
Speaker 1: She's a young mum who now her partner of eight
Speaker 1: years has been found guilty of the worst possible crime,
Speaker 1: but her baby daddy as well, and instead of feeling
Speaker 1: sorry for her, I feel like the media are trying
Speaker 1: to portray her as being part of the problem.
Speaker 4: Yea.
Speaker 1: And I think that really speaks a lot to how
Speaker 1: society views influences at the moment. We want to believe
Speaker 1: the worst in people.
Speaker 2: And so women as well.
Speaker 1: And if you think about how the media has covered
Speaker 1: this story, you know they've used a lot of photos
Speaker 1: of Gracie and it's because the media rely on clicks
Speaker 1: and engagement and they know that using an image of
Speaker 1: this beautiful girl with this guy and saying he murdered
Speaker 1: his mum to fund this lifestyle, people are gonna hate
Speaker 1: on her. People are going to write disgusting things when
Speaker 1: it didn't even have anything to.
Speaker 2: Do with her.
Speaker 1: Look On a different level, I do understand why the
Speaker 1: media is reporting it in this way from working there
Speaker 1: for many years. It's the perfect story for them. It's
Speaker 1: got all of the right ingredients to sell papers. Not
Speaker 1: saying it's the right thing to do, but I totally
Speaker 1: understand it. Before we get into the next topic, we
Speaker 1: want to issue a trigger warning as we do touch
Speaker 1: on issues surrounding alcohol and drug use, as well as suicide.
Speaker 1: Freshman taking out food Creator of the Year at the
Speaker 1: TikTok Awards, Michael Finch has opened up about hitting rock
Speaker 1: bottom and losing his passion for makeup. In the raw
Speaker 1: interview on his best friend Amy Jane Brand's podcast Emotional Content,
Speaker 1: Michael spoke about suffering from drug and alcohol addiction. I
Speaker 1: found this interview fascinating because a lot of our listeners
Speaker 1: will know that we did a deep dive into Michael's
Speaker 1: career and also his social media transformation last year, and
Speaker 1: this filled a lot of blanks for us about what
Speaker 1: was going on in the background.
Speaker 2: He might have to redo that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was Michael's first ever podcast interview and
Speaker 1: a bit sad that it didn't take place on our podcast,
Speaker 1: But I think the fact that he did it with
Speaker 1: his best friend it really helped him feel comfortable and
Speaker 1: also safe to open up, and he really.
Speaker 2: Did bear all.
Speaker 1: In this interview, he spoke about gradually losing his passion
Speaker 1: for makeup. He said he became hyper aware of the
Speaker 1: ingredients going into some makeup brands and no longer felt
Speaker 1: comfortable putting on his skin every day. When I first
Speaker 1: heard this, my first thought was, I wonder how all
Speaker 1: of those makeup brands feel that have worked with him
Speaker 1: over the years. It's interesting because a part of his
Speaker 1: job was to influence people to buy that makeup, and
Speaker 1: if he's worried about what's in it and he's telling
Speaker 1: people to buy it as well, I mean ethically, he
Speaker 1: might have a bit of a hang up about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, that kind of makes more sense why.
Speaker 1: He's deleted a lot of his old videos over the years,
Speaker 1: because he's really wiped his YouTube channel, and maybe it's
Speaker 1: because he doesn't want to encourage something that he no
Speaker 1: longer supports. Wow in influencer actually taking accountability for the
Speaker 1: past mistakes that they've made, you know. I mean he's
Speaker 1: deemed the mistakes and clearing it off the internet and
Speaker 1: not making ad revenue off it.
Speaker 2: Wow, that is an absolute shot. Yeah, it's fair on him.
Speaker 2: It's very refreshing.
Speaker 1: Now, as he started falling out of love with makeup,
Speaker 1: Michael said he stopped creating content altogether. Now, this was
Speaker 1: around twenty nineteen, and he said he quickly ran out
Speaker 1: of money and found himself in debt. So he started
Speaker 1: working at a friend's nursery. Now, he ended up working
Speaker 1: there for over six months, and then COVID hit. I
Speaker 1: specifically remember this period of time and I was thinking, God,
Speaker 1: I hope he's okay. Yeah, let's listen to what he
Speaker 1: said about that time.
Speaker 7: COVID happened after that, and then I didn't want to
Speaker 7: put that shit on my skin anymore. Like, you know,
Speaker 7: a lot of people had like where they call it
Speaker 7: like an awakening before like COVID happened or whatever. I
Speaker 7: guess I kind of had that and just like looked
Speaker 7: into a lot of the shit that was in makeup
Speaker 7: and just was just like, I don't want to put
Speaker 7: this shit on my skin anymore. I learnt a lot.
Speaker 1: Michael also said he became totally disillusioned by the industry,
Speaker 1: and he was rapidly losing followers and relevance from not
Speaker 1: posting content, and he knew that the only way to
Speaker 1: get attention was to insert himself into some type of drama.
Speaker 2: But this wasn't for him.
Speaker 1: He said, he found it gross and took a further
Speaker 1: six month hiatus to try and find himself. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he said during that time he went completely off the
Speaker 1: rails and became heavily addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 2: Here's a bit of what he said.
Speaker 7: There was a point where I really hit rock bottom
Speaker 7: where I was just like a four blown alcoholic and
Speaker 7: I was so addicted to that. I don't know if
Speaker 7: anyone knows, but there was like this thing that you
Speaker 7: used to be. I'm pretty sure. I don't know if
Speaker 7: you can still get it, but I used to get
Speaker 7: this weed oil, but it was like fake weed oil,
Speaker 7: and it was like one hundred anesthetic, yes, synthetic. It
Speaker 7: was like one hundred and ten dollars for like a
Speaker 7: little bottle of oil. And used to put it through
Speaker 7: a veight that used to get up to two hundred
Speaker 7: degrees celsius. And I used to just rip that all day,
Speaker 7: every single day. My rock bottom was that smoking that
Speaker 7: getting addicted to bricks. You know, bricks are fucking those bricks.
Speaker 7: I don't know what the real name is, but I don't.
Speaker 7: But wait, but like the pharmaceuticals, like the bricks and
Speaker 7: the xanax. Yeah, I don't know bricks. I don't know
Speaker 7: if bricks and zannies the same thing. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 7: it is. Yeah, I got so addicted to them.
Speaker 1: This actually really shocked me because I know he's tiptoed
Speaker 1: around having some sort of issues with alcohol and maybe
Speaker 1: dabbled in drugs, but the extent of what he was
Speaker 1: going through, I had no idea. And he did reference
Speaker 1: one occasion where he thought he might not wake up
Speaker 1: from his drug binge. And this was very upsetting for
Speaker 1: the host, Amy jayden Brand, because she said that she
Speaker 1: and Michael had lost contact at that time. They had
Speaker 1: a bit of a falling out, and it was really
Speaker 1: upsetting to hear that things had gotten so bad for
Speaker 1: Michael like that. It's really sad and it just demonstrates
Speaker 1: the lack of support influencers have because like child stars
Speaker 1: Michael Finch, Shiny Grimman.
Speaker 2: They're the first lot of child.
Speaker 1: Teenage influencers who have had this level of fame and
Speaker 1: money given to them at this young age, and it's
Speaker 1: clear that it's been very hard for Michael to navigate
Speaker 1: that well. In this interview, he went into a lot
Speaker 1: of detail how he actually developed anxiety from being followed
Speaker 1: around by fans. He said he didn't have a problem
Speaker 1: with people asking for photos, but what became a problem
Speaker 1: was that feeling of being followed. And this happened a
Speaker 1: lot to them at nightclubs as well, because at the time,
Speaker 1: Michael said that he was secretly smoking. So he said
Speaker 1: that Shanny, his best friend at the time, didn't even
Speaker 1: know that he was smoking, but he would try and
Speaker 1: have a sneaky cigarette when he was out and about,
Speaker 1: and he mentioned that someone tried to snap a photo
Speaker 1: of him smoking and his manager at the time. I
Speaker 1: don't know if this was me a pleasure, but they
Speaker 1: apparently grabbed the fans phone and threw it across the room.
Speaker 1: It sounds like maybe something me a plasic would allegedly do.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if that would be worse
Speaker 1: pr someone a manager smashing someone's phone or a photo
Speaker 1: of him smoking. I don't know. I think that just
Speaker 1: demonstrates to people who didn't grow up in the ear
Speaker 1: of Michael Finch just how big he.
Speaker 2: Was at the time.
Speaker 1: Now, going back to this really difficult time that Michael
Speaker 1: found himself in, he said that things were so dire
Speaker 1: that he thought he was going to have to move
Speaker 1: back to his hometown with his parents. He said he
Speaker 1: had a lot of support, though his parents ended up
Speaker 1: loaning him fifty thousand dollars to get back on his feet.
Speaker 1: He also said some of his influencer friends loaned him money.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that were Shiny Grimmond, but interesting
Speaker 1: that they were very kind enough.
Speaker 2: To do that. He also said he sold.
Speaker 1: A ton of his designer stuff and all of his furniture,
Speaker 1: which at the time sparked a lot of speculation. I
Speaker 1: remember talking about it on the podcast. He said it
Speaker 1: was so awkward because he's like, everyone's like, why are
Speaker 1: you selling it? And he's like, oh, it's a secret.
Speaker 1: Like he didn't want to say that he had no money,
Speaker 1: and he said that his motivation for getting out of
Speaker 1: such a dark place was survival. He said he needed
Speaker 1: to make money to keep afloat, and this is really
Speaker 1: how he made his grand return with food. He said
Speaker 1: it was scary to totally change his content because he
Speaker 1: said he'd grown his followers by sharing about superficial content
Speaker 1: like makeup and design a gear, and he knew that
Speaker 1: he was going to get a lot of his followers
Speaker 1: dropping off, but he knew that he needed to try
Speaker 1: and get new people in. This just makes it even
Speaker 1: better that he has become so successful in that area,
Speaker 1: because it's just such an incredible transformation going from a
Speaker 1: makeup guru to TikTok's best chef. Yeah, I mean, the
Speaker 1: fact that he won the TikTok Creator of the Year
Speaker 1: for food is incredible. And he said it's really paid
Speaker 1: off making the switch because he's now making more money
Speaker 1: from his cooking videos than he ever was with Maybe
Speaker 1: that's surprising. And he also has said that he has
Speaker 1: resided himself to the fact that he will always be
Speaker 1: an addict, whether it's with cigarettes, alcohol, or weed, but
Speaker 1: it's just about managing it. That is all we have
Speaker 1: time for today, though, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us for another episode. If you have enjoyed it, could
Speaker 1: you please please please leave us a positive review and
Speaker 1: also make sure you are subscribed on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Speaker 1: This episode was recorded on the traditional land of the
Speaker 1: Ghana people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to
Speaker 1: elders past and present.