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Speaker 1: Get a I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,

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Speaker 1: and professional oversharer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure

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Speaker 1: because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,

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Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview

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Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,

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Speaker 1: all in a bid to.

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Speaker 2: Inspire us to fearlessly fail.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Oh, have you ever wanted to understand and know more

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Speaker 1: about family law? I know I have.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I don't know about you.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes a fear associated with lawyers and this thing

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Speaker 1: of like, well I'll get it if I need it,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? This chat the beautiful Gabriella

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Speaker 1: jumps on the pod and she was in La doing

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Speaker 1: an American tour for her book, The Collaborative co Parent.

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Speaker 2: And I learned so much.

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Speaker 1: Now, even if you're not into or you're not in

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Speaker 1: a phase in your life, we need to worry about

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Speaker 1: a prenup or your you know, separation or you know,

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Speaker 1: we all know somebody that's either gone through or going

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Speaker 1: through a divorce. So this episode I think will be

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Speaker 1: really interesting for you. But don't feel like you need

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Speaker 1: to be going through divorce. To feel like you need

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Speaker 1: to get something out of this episode. The way that

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Speaker 1: Gabriella teaches me about her four pillars of communication, I

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Speaker 1: was like, ah, this can be applied to any area

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Speaker 1: of life.

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Speaker 2: So I hope you love this chat.

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Speaker 1: Gabriella is so lovely, warm, full of info and may

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Speaker 1: I say smart as attack really smart And I learned

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Speaker 1: so much and I'm so glad. We've been talking for

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Speaker 1: over six months trying to organize this pod, so I'm

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Speaker 1: so happy that it's happened. I hope you love this chat.

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Speaker 1: Already looking forward to a second book, and yeah.

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Speaker 2: Soak it up, soak it up.

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Speaker 1: This is a really this has really inspired me. And

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Speaker 1: when I say inspired me just inspired me to like

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Speaker 1: live to my values. And I hope it does the

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Speaker 1: same for you. All right, hoo route enjoy Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the pod. Gabriella Pamari, mate writer, family lawyer, author, speaker,

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Speaker 1: traveling the globe.

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Speaker 2: Do you have time to breathe?

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, someone who doesn't sleep. I

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Speaker 3: think that this way of summarizing me at the moment you're.

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Speaker 2: In Los Angeles, how do you feel?

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Speaker 3: I love it. I'm a little bit tired, long long flight,

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Speaker 3: got straight off the flight and into it.

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Speaker 2: But didn't you go straight to studio yesterday?

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Speaker 3: I did? I did. I jumped straight on a little

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Speaker 3: bit of makeup, a nice dress, covered up the bags,

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Speaker 3: and here we are.

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Speaker 1: Oh, oh my goodness there and no bad You look so gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: Can I say absolutely nothing to worry about that?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 1: So I first of all need to start with family law.

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Speaker 1: What drew you to family law?

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Speaker 3: It's a boring answer. My dad's a family lawyer. No,

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Speaker 3: that's truly kind of grew up with it. All I

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Speaker 3: kind of knew was divorce, which is bizarre because I

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Speaker 3: live in Luckily, I'm blessed an intact family. Mind you,

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Speaker 3: my parents fought like every day of their lives. That's

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Speaker 3: my biggest memory of growing up really. Yeah. Mum was

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Speaker 3: dad's secretary, and I just remember the yelling and the

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Speaker 3: fighting all the time. And then I was finishing high

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Speaker 3: school and I did journalism and law at UNI, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, what do I want to do? And

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Speaker 3: I worked at the Mags for a while. I was

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Speaker 3: at Cosmopolitan. I thought I was so cool, like you

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Speaker 3: know that the fashion cup, but you got to come

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Speaker 3: home with fun freebies, all the time, but the magazines

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Speaker 3: were collapsing, and I was like, I don't think this

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Speaker 3: is right. Let's just stick with law and I don't

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Speaker 3: regret it. I've loved it ever since, and I've really

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Speaker 3: grown the business. And it's odd working with your dad,

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Speaker 3: if I can say that. But he's like said, we're

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Speaker 3: retired now, so it's a bit of fun.

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Speaker 2: Oh I love do you know?

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Speaker 1: My dad's a vet and he always had a dream

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Speaker 1: that one of us kids would become a vet take

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Speaker 1: over the practice. And we couldn't be more opposite than vets,

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Speaker 1: my bro but there's something so sweet and romantic in

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Speaker 1: a way, like it's beautiful.

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Speaker 3: It's nice. There's just too much law in my family,

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Speaker 3: so it's dad me. My ex husband was a lawyer.

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Speaker 3: So when we used to sit at the dinner table,

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Speaker 3: my sister'd be like, can we speak about something else? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 3: And my partner now is a barrister, so it's kind

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Speaker 3: of like, can we find someone unique with an interesting

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Speaker 3: story to tell?

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Speaker 1: For sure, your little son is going to be like

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Speaker 1: a musician, he's.

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Speaker 3: Doing something fun. I'm telling you something creative, artist, yes, anything,

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Speaker 3: but a lawyer so funny?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to dive straight into it. I did

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Speaker 1: to call out on Insta as well. What is one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest misconceptions people have about divorce that it.

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Speaker 3: Has this stigma. I think still we're still sort of

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Speaker 3: tied to the history of things where it was taboo

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Speaker 3: to get divorced, and I think it's that failure too.

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Speaker 3: And I went through it. I get it. You know,

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Speaker 3: you sort of entered into this do you want to

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Speaker 3: call it a contract? You enter into something for life,

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Speaker 3: and you imagine your life. You imagine you know, Christmases

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Speaker 3: and Holidays and birthdays, and there's little family that you're

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Speaker 3: going to bring up together, and then you kind of failed.

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Speaker 3: But I don't view it like that anymore. I think

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Speaker 3: it's not at all. I think these days, with modern society,

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Speaker 3: it's a real opportunity to redefine you. I mean, new

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Speaker 3: family and new rules. Just because you end a relationship

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Speaker 3: or a marriage doesn't mean you either still can't be friends.

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Speaker 3: I mean we see it all the time, or like

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Speaker 3: each other enough to have respect for one another. So no,

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Speaker 3: I don't view it as a failure despite the stigma

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Speaker 3: around it.

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Speaker 2: Totally.

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Speaker 1: I also think like people and I've heard you talk

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Speaker 1: about this before, but I think people think children from

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Speaker 1: divorced families are broken in some way. And I come

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Speaker 1: from a divorce family and my brother and I so

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Speaker 1: when my parents got divorce, I was six, he was four, okay,

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Speaker 1: And everyone's like, oh you as an adult, Oh you guys,

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Speaker 1: And we were like, are you kidding? Two birthdays, two Christmases,

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Speaker 1: extra holidays because I don't know if it was because

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Speaker 1: of the age, but also our parents stayed mates. And

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Speaker 1: I love the way you talk about values and so

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Speaker 1: on some level there was a value or some kind

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Speaker 1: of agreement which is like, we're going to make this

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Speaker 1: work for the kiddos. And I've heard you talk about

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Speaker 1: the importance of values. Can you share a little bit

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Speaker 1: about like having shared values, especially when you're coming to

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Speaker 1: kind of like a separation agreement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's realistically putting your children first all

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Speaker 3: the time, right, And that's really hard because you are grieving,

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Speaker 3: like it's the end of a relationship. That's a massive thing.

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Speaker 3: It's your own journey that you're going on, and you're

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Speaker 3: probably scared you don't know what life's about to bring,

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Speaker 3: or they might be betrayal and hate and grief and anger.

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Speaker 3: But despite all of that, I think you need to

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Speaker 3: remember that you do have this responsibility parent to look

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Speaker 3: after your children. And I think that's when that shared

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Speaker 3: value has to come in, right. I mean, the goal

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Speaker 3: has to be we don't want our divorce to ruin

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Speaker 3: our children. We see it these days. It's all over

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Speaker 3: the news of the media. Celebrities all the time estranging

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Speaker 3: from their families later in life because of how they

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Speaker 3: experience their parents' divorce. So I really like when I

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Speaker 3: hear the stories like you just said, of kids who say, yeah,

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Speaker 3: our parents separated and it sucked, but they stayed either

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Speaker 3: friendly enough or at least in our eyes, they got

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Speaker 3: on well enough. That I think is healthy for kids

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Speaker 3: because they see that parents can still get on. And

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Speaker 3: I think, as you're an adult, you realize they did

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Speaker 3: that for us. They probably didn't want to be friends,

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Speaker 3: they didn't want to communicate, but they wanted us to

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Speaker 3: feel a little bit more normal, more settled and safe.

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Speaker 3: So I think that's what it's all about. And I

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Speaker 3: get it. My son was one at the time, and

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Speaker 3: I thought that's the best thing for him because he

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Speaker 3: was young. He'd never remember. He doesn't remember going between homes,

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Speaker 3: but he questions that I'm telling you more now where

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Speaker 3: he's always saying, you know, but were you married to

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Speaker 3: my dad? Why can't you just live together? You know?

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Speaker 3: Why can't I be like the kids at school? Now

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Speaker 3: he's in kindergarten. So you know, there are days I

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Speaker 3: really don't want to speak to my ex husband, but

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Speaker 3: we make it work. You know, you'll bring me to say, no,

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Speaker 3: you get in the fly, are you safe? Did you

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Speaker 3: make it over there? And that's nice. It's that checking

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Speaker 3: in still when he doesn't have to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love I love the way you say like

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Speaker 1: it's about putting the kiddo's first, and I think if

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Speaker 1: that is your barometer and you come back to that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like it gets it out of your I don't

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Speaker 1: know if ego is the right word, but it gets

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Speaker 1: you kind of get yourself out of the way because

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Speaker 1: you're like, there's something more at stake here. And now

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Speaker 1: I have to ask you about something you email me

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Speaker 1: about quiet quitting, because I've heard of it in the

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Speaker 1: workplace for sure and in relationships. I'd never even thought

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Speaker 1: about it, but can you share what it means? Because

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Speaker 1: I think I feel like this is going to like

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Speaker 1: break my mind in a good way.

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Speaker 3: I feel like so many people relate to this and

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Speaker 3: don't they're in it until they start reading about it

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Speaker 3: or hearing it. And I'm the same even now. It's

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Speaker 3: essentially when you emotionally switch off from a relationship, you

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Speaker 3: check out. So you haven't even sort of said to

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Speaker 3: your partner, I want a separation or I want a

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Speaker 3: divorce because you're not even there necessarily, but you'll come home.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're sitting on different sides of the couch.

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Speaker 3: One person's watching TV. You know, I'm scrolling. You're disinterested

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Speaker 3: maybe in connecting. You know, you're reaching out to your

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Speaker 3: friends more than you are your partner to talk about whatever,

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Speaker 3: going through personal circumstances, whatever issues you're having. You don't

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Speaker 3: prioritize each other as much anymore. You know, it's more

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Speaker 3: of a chore. So, yeah, we're getting by, our bills

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Speaker 3: are being paid. You know, the house is clean, we're

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Speaker 3: socializing where we need to. But that connection's gone. You know,

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Speaker 3: where's the date nights, where's that intimacy, use of sin text?

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Speaker 3: How you feeling today? I'm thinking of you and that's

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Speaker 3: gone as well, And it might not be because you're

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Speaker 3: intentionally doing it. It's because life gets busy. You're more

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Speaker 3: likely than not. Now got you know, duel income, households,

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Speaker 3: two people working, two people out and about. And I

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Speaker 3: think we almost take for granted our relationships and we

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Speaker 3: get busy and we want our individual identities and we

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Speaker 3: want to make something for ourselves. But it is important

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Speaker 3: to still prioritize our partners or our husband's wives, whoever

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Speaker 3: it might be.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you want them to feel like a teammate.

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Speaker 3: You do, well, I don't know owate roommate because then

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Speaker 3: is that what it is? Or is it that you

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Speaker 3: know your lover essentially? I mean when they've become more

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Speaker 3: of that teammate roommate identity. And if your parents, especially,

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Speaker 3: are you just co parenting under the same roof oh wow?

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Speaker 3: Or do you genuinely want that relationship? Like do you

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Speaker 3: crave the date nights out? Like I know sometimes I've

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Speaker 3: got a hold is she now fifteen month old and

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Speaker 3: then five year old? Half the time? And you get

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Speaker 3: so caught up in the mundane parts of life. Have

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Speaker 3: I've got school drop offs, constantly working out, baby life work,

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Speaker 3: all these other bits and pieces, And I sit back

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Speaker 3: sometimes and say, did I remember to ask him today,

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Speaker 3: how he's going, how he's feeling. Should we maybe, like

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Speaker 3: diorize a date night this month because we haven't been

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Speaker 3: out just us two in forever and you just forget

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Speaker 3: about it. Yeah, you take that person for granted.

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Speaker 1: Oh I love these because for me, teammates like it's

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Speaker 1: us against the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, true, Like that's how I look at it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like anything that gets thrown at Matt or me

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Speaker 1: we deal together where you are like, okay, this is

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Speaker 1: us again we want to do Yeah, but also we

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Speaker 1: don't have kiddos. We don't have We're literally in Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles following our dreams and some days it's awesome and

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Speaker 1: someday it's husband. It's very different. Like I think, as

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Speaker 1: soon as you've got a kiddo involved.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it becomes more challenging. So obviously when I

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Speaker 3: met my partner, I only had my son half the time,

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Speaker 3: so we still had that uniqueness of we've got our

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Speaker 3: own time. We were out all the time, we were

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Speaker 3: holiday and it was so nice because I almost got

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Speaker 3: that semi single life, so we could still do the

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Speaker 3: holidays without the kids. Because you know, my sond be

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Speaker 3: with his dad and now I've got the baby, I'm

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Speaker 3: kind of like, oh, I'm falling back into that same pattern,

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Speaker 3: that same routine, and it plays on your mind a bit.

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Speaker 3: I think when you've been for a separational divorce, because

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Speaker 3: I'm always like, shit, she's now the same age he was.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to fall into that same pattern of

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Speaker 3: taking each other for granted or you know, prioritizing my

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Speaker 3: work for example, over a relationship. And yeah, there's always

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Speaker 3: that panic and fear.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I love that. I love that you're

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Speaker 2: sharing that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I have to ask, as someone that is very

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Speaker 1: passionate about mental health, how important is when you go

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Speaker 1: through a separation or divorce? Like it feels like, and

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Speaker 1: this might be just because I've watched Hollywood movies and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: and there's a really good movie called Marriage Story.

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Speaker 3: Yes I'm obsessed.

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Speaker 2: How good?

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Speaker 3: Yeah trays it so well.

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Speaker 1: But it feels like people dive pretty quickly into Okay,

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Speaker 1: I need legal representation. But how important to you is

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Speaker 1: like the healing journey? Because I imagine some people make choices

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Speaker 1: out of reaction and out of like being hurt or betrayed, Like,

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Speaker 1: how do people, or like how important is like having

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Speaker 1: that window to process, heal, grieve before like having all

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Speaker 1: these knee jerk trigger reactions.

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Speaker 3: I don't know where we got the idea that the

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Speaker 3: minute we divorced we need to rush off to lawyers.

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Speaker 3: And I see clients all the time, and I often

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Speaker 3: say to them in the first meeting, I'm glad to

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Speaker 3: have met you today, but you might not actually need

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Speaker 3: me for three months or six months or even a year,

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Speaker 3: because you need time to heal. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: you fully understand how to co parent, or you couldn't

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Speaker 3: possibly come up with a set of parenting arrangements the

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Speaker 3: day you separate. You have no idea where your life

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Speaker 3: is going. You don't even know who you want to

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Speaker 3: be anymore. And I think that healing journey, it's a process.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it took me years. The clients I work with,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'll see them, they might be the angriest

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Speaker 3: of people. Because I always use the word grief because

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Speaker 3: what I've heard and I think I've experienced too, is

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Speaker 3: the grief you experience from divorce is almost second to death.

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Speaker 3: You can't obviously compare it exactly, but it is because

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Speaker 3: you're grieving an entire life that you feel like you've lost.

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Speaker 3: And I think that then brings anger with it, and

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Speaker 3: the angrier you are when you meet with the lawyer,

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Speaker 3: the poorer the decisions you're going to make. And we

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Speaker 3: always say as family lawyers that we deal with people

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Speaker 3: at their absolute worst. You know, criminal lawyers, you hear it.

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Speaker 3: Their clients are being the best they possibly can, you know,

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Speaker 3: to sort of get the best result. Whereas and I'll say,

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Speaker 3: every mom and dad I work with, they're horrible. They're

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Speaker 3: horrible to each other. They very really can put their

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Speaker 3: children first. And you know, I would have thought in

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Speaker 3: a year's time or in two years time, we're going

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Speaker 3: to have a more decent conversation. You're going to be

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Speaker 3: more child focused and hopefully you're on that healing journey.

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Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes I email clients years later to

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Speaker 3: sort of check in. I'm curious, particularly if they've been

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Speaker 3: through a big one, and my god, they're different. Their

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Speaker 3: perspective on life is different, they've regained their identity. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're getting on with their ex. It's just such a

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Speaker 3: different story.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's so important to let yourself go through those.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and mental health is a big one, because if

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Speaker 3: you don't allow yourself time to heal, you're probably also

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Speaker 3: sort of shifting those emotions onto children. And they're experiencing,

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Speaker 3: of course, and they do it. They see everything their

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Speaker 3: parents do. You know, you get a text message if

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Speaker 3: it makes you angry, they feel that you can't not feel.

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Speaker 3: You can't, you know, hide the fact that you do

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Speaker 3: want to sit in your room and cry. That's normal,

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Speaker 3: but you want to shield your kids away from as

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Speaker 3: much as you know you can as well.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Okay, I've just got engaged, so I have

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Speaker 1: to ask you this. A couple of years ago, I

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Speaker 1: did my will and I remember sitting on the zoom

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Speaker 1: call with this wonderful lawyer and I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: i'm here. I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm with

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Speaker 1: my life partner. Can we just chat about prenups? And

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Speaker 1: she literally looked at me. She goes, how long have

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Speaker 1: you been living together? And I was like, like in

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Speaker 1: the same house and she's like yeah, and I was

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Speaker 1: like five six years and she started laughing and goes, Lola,

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Speaker 1: the horse has bolted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I go, what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: And she's like, you've been cohabitating for over two years like,

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Speaker 1: it's fifty like it's a split nat like.

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Speaker 2: And it was so.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating because I had no idea that that was a thing.

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Speaker 2: So can you school me a little bit on this.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's so intrigued by this concept of the prenup and

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Speaker 3: maybe it's because of celebrity cultural movies, and I get it,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's really more relevant later in life.

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Speaker 3: So if you're in you know, your second or maybe

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Speaker 3: third marriage, and you met you know, as older adults,

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Speaker 3: it might be more relevant because you've got assets you

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Speaker 3: might want to protect, particularly if you've got children and

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Speaker 3: you're sort of saying it's their inheritance. But us younger generation, Yeah, realistically,

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Speaker 3: they're not really going to be upheld, particularly if you

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Speaker 3: haven't yet had kids. Once you have those kiddos, that

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Speaker 3: prenups going out the window. Wow, they're expensive and a

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Speaker 3: lot of lawyers won't do it anymore because we're getting

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Speaker 3: sued every day of the week because of you know,

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Speaker 3: the advice we gave. And yeah, so it's not something

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Speaker 3: I would necessarily recommend unless you are you know, second

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Speaker 3: third marriage and you have property you need to protect

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Speaker 3: for your kids.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for that, Okay, thank.

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Speaker 3: You for safe.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to say is living in

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Speaker 1: America for a while, I've seen a few friends go

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Speaker 1: through divorces and it's a different world in America, and

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Speaker 1: it's state. You probably know this state by state, but

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Speaker 1: holy mackerel, the it feels like just from what I've seen,

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Speaker 1: and this is all obviously secondhand through mates that have

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Speaker 1: gone through it, but it is like you're locked into

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Speaker 1: a pretty long battle, and there is like spousal support,

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Speaker 1: and there is like especially the kiddo stuff as well,

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Speaker 1: if someone's like got the kiddo and then there's like

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Speaker 1: child's very long.

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Speaker 2: How is it?

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Speaker 1: And I know, I know you practice in Australia, so

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Speaker 1: but there's a huge difference between the Australia and America.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a massive difference property and parenting wise. And

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Speaker 3: I think that movie, honestly, Marriage Story, Oh gosh, it's

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Speaker 3: just so culturally relevant. It sums it up so well

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Speaker 3: over here. And there's also that really old one and

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Speaker 3: if you haven't seen it, you've got to watch it.

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Speaker 3: More of the roses I've heard about this Gold It

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Speaker 3: is truly gold. I watch it back just from time

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Speaker 3: to time because some of the scenes they hit home

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Speaker 3: they're so heavy. But realistically, I think here it's a

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Speaker 3: well in Australia, it's a no fault system, so it

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Speaker 3: wouldn't matter what each party did. It's not going to

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Speaker 3: make a difference to your finances. That's all contribution based,

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Speaker 3: So who brought in what, who did what? You know,

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Speaker 3: who can't earn more than the other in the future

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Speaker 3: of those sorts of things. Here it's a little bit different.

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Speaker 3: I know there are presumptions of equal division in some states,

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Speaker 3: and there's the idea of espousal maintenance. So for us

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Speaker 3: at home, not really not long term. It's you know,

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Speaker 3: if you're what do we call it, if you're asset

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Speaker 3: poor and income rich, you might get some maintenance. So

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Speaker 3: someone earns a lot of money but they don't own property.

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Speaker 3: But over here, yeah, you're in it for the long haul.

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Speaker 3: There's magnants to pay. Look, child support, that's a really

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Speaker 3: touchy subject because I think at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: you pay for those kids, And the biggest debates and

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Speaker 3: conflict and toxicity I see is over child support. Really

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Speaker 3: you know, it's usually dads, but could be either putting

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Speaker 3: their incomes completely down so that you know the other

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Speaker 3: person's not entitled to it or not getting enough. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and we're trying to contract into something outside of whatever

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Speaker 3: government arrangement you have, and it's just it's horrible. All

403
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Speaker 3: the fights are of a child support and I sit

404
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Speaker 3: back and I say, are we being serious right now?

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Speaker 3: We are arguing over you're paying a kid's school fees

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Speaker 3: or whether or not your daughter can do dancing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I had a dad who refused to allow his son

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Speaker 3: to play soccer because he said, I'm not giving any

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Speaker 3: more money, and we were like, it's literally to pay

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Speaker 3: the whatever registration soccer fees. Are we arguing about this?

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Speaker 1: And it's like what you just said before, you need

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Speaker 1: to bring it back to the kiddos, like that needs

414
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Speaker 1: to be the goal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're missing out because of you. And you know again,

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Speaker 3: I think it's the ego. Like you said, it comes

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Speaker 3: back to that you always want to win. I think

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Speaker 3: that's human nature. We want to come out on top,

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Speaker 3: but hang on. In a divorce, no one wins, like

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Speaker 3: the kids will always be impacted.

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Speaker 1: What do you wish couples understood before they got married.

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Speaker 3: I asked myself this a lot because people often ask me,

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Speaker 3: you know, what advice would you give people? And like,

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Speaker 3: you don't know. We don't get married to get divorced.

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Speaker 3: But I think do we rush into it sometimes? I

426
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Speaker 3: think realistically life changed a lot. You know, back in

427
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Speaker 3: the day, people you know, you would date and you'd

428
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Speaker 3: have to get married straight away because your parents wouldn't

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Speaker 3: let you live together. Most people these days will give

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Speaker 3: it a test run and at least live together. But

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Speaker 3: what's the difference between being in a long term, you know,

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Speaker 3: domestic relationship. When you're living together, you're still going to

433
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 3: go through that same heartbreak and everything that comes with

434
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 3: a divorce. I really think it comes down to communication.

435
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 3: I think you want to be on the same page

436
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 3: with how you communicate, how you express yourselves. Do you

437
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 3: have the same values and they will change from time

438
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 3: to time? People change. I mean I'm not the same

439
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 3: person I was five years ago. I don't think you

440
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 3: would be right. We have different interests, different life goals,

441
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 3: we might be on a different path. But it all

442
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 3: comes back down to if we're communicating well, if we

443
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,320
Speaker 3: can be open with one another and have that respectful communication,

444
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,160
Speaker 3: we should be able to change and adapt with each

445
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 3: other as we grow. Right, even if we're different people.

446
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: So you've give me a beautiful segue. Can you teach

447
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,479
Speaker 1: me your four pillars of communication from your beautiful book?

448
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 3: Yes, And honestly, I think they're adaptable to every part

449
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 3: of life, not just the divorce journey. So listen, pause,

450
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,239
Speaker 3: reflect and respond. And essentially what that means is when

451
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 3: you're having a conversation with anyone, you need to actually

452
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 3: listen and not just sit there and hear what they're saying,

453
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 3: but really feel it. Give yourself time to process because

454
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: half the time, and particularly if you're in the midst

455
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,199
Speaker 3: of conflict, you know bad communication. You're not listening, you're

456
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 3: letting that person talk. But what you're really thinking about

457
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: is quick, when can I jump in? What horrible thing

458
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 3: am I going to say to win this fight? So

459
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 3: stop and listen and pause. That's the really big one.

460
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 3: I call it the power of the pause, and that

461
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 3: means really stepping back. And I don't think there is

462
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: any rule which says, whatever the decision you're making is,

463
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 3: or the communication that you're engaging in, you have to

464
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 3: come back straight away. Sometimes the worst things we can

465
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 3: do is to respond straight away out of anger and hurt.

466
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:01,959
Speaker 2: Totally.

467
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 3: We're disregulated, you know, emotions are heightened. So pause five minutes,

468
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: five hours, you know, and you'll do it, probably yourself

469
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 3: with either your partner or your friends. You're engaging in

470
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 3: a text battle, you're angry. So the text you're sending,

471
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure they're volatile, and I often read

472
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 3: them back the next day and think if I had

473
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: just let myself come down, you know, the next morning

474
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 3: you regret sending all those messages. So that's the power

475
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 3: of the pause. I love it reflect So think about it.

476
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 3: Obviously similar to pause, give yourself time to reflect on

477
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 3: what's the outcome you actually want to achieve. And when

478
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 3: we're talking about co parenting again, bring it back to Bill,

479
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 3: this benefit my kid? Is this about my kid? And

480
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 3: also if my kid read back the message I'm about

481
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 3: to send all the email, would they be proud of me?

482
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 3: Would they be impressed in what I'm saying to their

483
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 3: other parent? And then respond Okay. So this is from

484
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 3: the book The Collaborative co Parent. Where can listeners get

485
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: a hold of it? Collaborative co Parent is available everywhere,

486
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 3: so over here, buns and noble congrats. That's massive. Yeah,

487
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 3: it's exciting. So the grow yeah as you go. First

488
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 3: thing I did last time I came to the US

489
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: was run to a buns and over get it, take

490
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 3: a photo, sign it.

491
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: Do it again, go back again. It's so good.

492
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 3: Amazon, Online, at home, book Topia, basically anywhere.

493
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: Congrats, that's a huge fee.

494
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: It's very exciting.

495
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And speaking of books, the Good Girl Blueprint

496
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: and this is all around perfectionism. And I said to

497
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: you before we hit record, I'm control free a type personality.

498
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: Still do things where I feel outside my comfort zone.

499
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: But I'll have sweaty palms and I wear an aura

500
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: ring so I can see my heart rate just go

501
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: through the roof. And I'm like, that's the worst, Oh

502
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: my god. And it's just because I'm afraid of judgment,

503
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: I presume. But talk to me about this next book.

504
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: When's it's coming out? Can you give us a little

505
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: sneak peak?

506
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 3: So the Amy's end of the year, early next year, beautiful.

507
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 3: The idea really came from you, that's me Like I

508
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: have a painful personality where I guess if you break

509
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 3: it down, you were sort of taught in life to

510
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 3: always be and I don't mean perfect is look good

511
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 3: but literally is in behave you know, don't ask for

512
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 3: too much, don't need too much. You know, if I

513
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 3: play the part, then I'll have easy relationships people like me.

514
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: I'll do well at my job. But I feel like

515
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: you're constantly living in this almost mask and it's the

516
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: need to always do better. You know, it's a terrible,

517
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 3: I think way to live because you'll do something exciting

518
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 3: like today, finish a new segment, finish a podcast, and

519
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 3: that rush goes automatically and rather than maybe sitting back

520
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 3: and saying, wow, I'm proud of myself today. Did I

521
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 3: do good enough? Am I doing enough? What's the next thing?

522
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 3: Let's start pitching for the next opportunity. And yeah, it's

523
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: not really knowing when to pause and when to actually

524
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 3: take time for yourself. And I remember a couple of

525
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 3: years ago, so my mum was in hospital for a

526
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: whole year. She had a stroke. It was pretty bad.

527
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 3: It was the year that I got divorced, and I

528
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: was sitting in the hospital. I could see she was

529
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: in pain, and I kept buzzing the nurse and I

530
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 3: kept sort of trying to get their attention, and to

531
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: the point where this nurse snapped at me and was like,

532
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 3: you have a type a personality and it's not going

533
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 3: to help you in life. And I don't I think

534
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 3: those words will ever come. They're like instilled in my memory,

535
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 3: like carved on my brain. And look, she was right,

536
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: I think in that circumstance though it was warranted. But yeah,

537
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: sometimes I think you need to, as hard as it is,

538
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: like oh, the control a little bit and just let

539
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: life be.

540
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: And I think what you've just said as well, celebrate

541
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: the winds along the way, Like.

542
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 3: It's okay to be proud of yourself. It's okay to say, hey,

543
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 3: I did good today.

544
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this morning before you got here, I

545
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: watched your Good Day La Seggi from yesterday that you

546
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: had already uploaded, like you're a machine.

547
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where the no sleep comes in. And I

548
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 3: guess that's part of the book too, learning the art

549
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 3: of the juggle. And one of the things I talk

550
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: about is learning which falls the glass and which a

551
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: rubber And you've probably heard a bit about that. But

552
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: it's working out what do I actually have to hold,

553
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: what's actually important right now and what can I just

554
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 3: let go of because you know it's not my responsibility

555
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 3: to necessarily carry. And I think I'm still learning that

556
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: I've got to let go of wanting to do everything

557
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 3: and beer everywhere all the time. And yeah, it's a

558
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 3: personality trait and it serves me well sometimes because you know,

559
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: you get a lot done, and it's great for opportunities,

560
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 3: but not great for rest to them things.

561
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: And also, don't you find sometimes when you're juggling too much,

562
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: you're actually not putting your best foot forward. And if

563
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: you're a perfectionist, which we've both admitted, if you don't

564
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: rock up and put your best foot forward, then I

565
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: noticed all beat myself up and be like, well, I

566
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: could have been more prepared for that.

567
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: I could have been more on the ball.

568
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: And so like I was watching an interview yesterday with

569
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: my favorite musician, Marcus Mumford forf and so I have

570
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: a huge boyfriend knows.

571
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 2: All about it anyway.

572
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: He said, when he met his wife, Kerry Mulligan, actress,

573
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: she had already done a round of going for the oscars,

574
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: so like all the press, and then he got his

575
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: first like Grammys, big thing. So he was like a

576
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: year kind of behind her career wise, and she taught him,

577
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: you know, you can say no. You don't have to

578
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: say yes to everything, And he's like, it was a

579
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: really good gift because then you get to pick what

580
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: you do and you can do it with perfection and

581
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: you can give it your all.

582
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was one of my goals earlier this year.

583
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 3: It's in my notes up twenty twenty six. Be more intentional. Yeah,

584
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 3: and I think it's choosing what you want to do

585
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 3: and why you want to do it, so you know,

586
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 3: are you doing it because it's something you're choosing to

587
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: do good at it's going to make you happy, or

588
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 3: you're doing it because you think you have to do it.

589
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 3: Are you making someone else happy by doing it? Or

590
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 3: it's just because you're feeling a bit forced. And you're right.

591
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: When you do things like that, you lack that perfectionism

592
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 3: because you're not putting the effort in. Yeah, you're probably

593
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 3: your heart's not really in it, as opposed to when

594
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 3: it's something you really want, you're going to go for it.

595
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 3: You know, you're not going to sleep until in your

596
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: head you've got it right and you'll probably do a

597
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: lot better at it. Yeah, And opportunities will come from that.

598
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 3: You don't need to take absolutely everything that's thrown at you.

599
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: I'm going to teach you something my acting teacher taught me.

600
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: When you do something like for actors, a bad self tape,

601
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: or say you do something you're like, oh my god,

602
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: I wish I didn't do that, or I didn't put

603
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: my heart into that enough. My teacher writes on a

604
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: big whiteboard, so.

605
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 3: What Yeah, I love that it's true.

606
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: What like onto the next Yeah.

607
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: And at the top of every audition we do, when

608
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: we get our sides, which is our script, Yeah, you

609
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: have to write one of many.

610
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so true. It's a good way to live too,

611
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 3: because if it's the be all end all, and that's

612
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: going to cause you have this massive nervous breakdown because

613
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 3: you think, you know, you're so self deprecating. I it's

614
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: so terrible. You won't be able to move forward from that,

615
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 3: I don't think, and it'll make the next one worse.

616
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: I love that. It's gonna be every time out.

617
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: I feel like we're gonna have to get you back

618
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: on when this second book comes out.

619
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 2: But can we quickly?

620
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: I have I love this this note rebuilding your identity

621
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: in your thirties and forties. A lot of listeners are

622
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: in this category, and also selfishly myself, I'm like, hell there, yeah,

623
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: Like is that something you're going to talk about in

624
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: this next book? But can you also give us a

625
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: little taste of what that means for you?

626
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to that whole social stigma too,

627
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: who says the pickarese who you were in your twenties

628
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: or your early thirties is who you're going to be forever.

629
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 3: It's just not, and it's okay to want to change.

630
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: And maybe that's why we see a lot of separations

631
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 3: and divorces too. I don't know, but I often find

632
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 3: that in your thirties and forties is where you properly mature.

633
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: I have changed so much. Everything I want is different

634
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: to what I wanted maybe ten or fifteen years ago,

635
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: and that's okay. But I think it's allowing yourself to

636
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 3: want more, allowing yourself to put yourself out there and

637
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: not say, hey, I'm I don't know, thirty eight, forty

638
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: years old, kids or no kids, whatever it is, I

639
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 3: don't deserve to change what I'm doing. I don't deserve

640
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: to have that next goal because who cares what age

641
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: you are. You go out there and you do it

642
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 3: because age is really nothing. It comes down to in

643
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: my state of life wherever I am one, can I

644
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: fit it in two? Is it going to serve me

645
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: and my family? Of course if you've got to think

646
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: about little ones as well. But go out there and

647
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: put yourself out there, because something beautiful probably will come

648
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: from it. But you need to allow yourself to sort

649
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: of grasp that opportunity and feel it and believe in

650
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: it and pursue it. Otherwise you to miss out on

651
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: something that you desperately want. And it's a short life,

652
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: like we're not guaranteed anything. And imagine getting to a stage

653
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: in life where you know, I don't know, you sick

654
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: or something happens and you say, I didn't let myself

655
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: have that opportunity that you know I really wanted. So

656
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: I think it's really just yeah, it's that whole allowing yourself.

657
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: And that no regrets peace.

658
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: Like you said, if you're you know, down the line

659
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: on your deathbed and you're like, oh, why.

660
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: Didn't I give that thing? Yeah a crack, or why

661
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: didn't I try that thing?

662
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: And even if nothing comes from it. I know when

663
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: I was looking at doing this second book, I've done

664
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: the first one, and to be honest again, it's probably

665
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 3: the tie paid personality. I got off the plane I

666
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 3: was coming home from here, and I said, I want

667
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: this to happen. I've got to make this happen. And

668
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: part of me said, but what if no one likes it?

669
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: Or what if it doesn't get picked up, or what

670
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: if people read it and say that's another self help book?

671
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: So I sort of tackled the idea and played with

672
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: it in my mind and then a bit like when

673
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 3: you said the so what, what I told myself was okay, Well,

674
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: if no one likes it, at least I wrote it. Yeah,

675
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: I got the message. I wanted it out there. If anything,

676
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: it was probably very therapeutic for me.

677
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: That's such a great way of thinking about it. Writing

678
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: is so therapy.

679
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: It is for me. It's the healing. And you know

680
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: when people say when do you have time, Well, that's

681
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: what I like to do after work, you know, when

682
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 3: you're listening to people all day fight about their ex

683
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: husbands and wives. I like going home and just sort

684
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: of sitting down writing, getting my thoughts out. And you

685
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: know what, if they held one person, great, If no one,

686
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 3: that's okay too.

687
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, I'm so excited. You've got to keep me

688
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: posted with this release date. Okay, because I think we

689
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: need a second for sure, chitty chat about that. I

690
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: not to like pick your brains as a lawyer, but

691
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: I just have one last lawyery question. What is something

692
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: people do wrong right before they engage a lawyer, Like,

693
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: so they've gone through the they've had the big Barnie,

694
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: the big fight, and then they're like, I'm gonna lie,

695
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: I'm laving up, Like is it that healing?

696
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 2: Is it that pause they're missing out on?

697
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

698
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: I think it's that instinct to argue. So you've you've

699
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: probably done something really bad, or you've made an offer

700
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: that you've put all your cards out on the table

701
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: and you've stuffed up, what's really going to happen. I

702
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: don't ever like the idea of saying, well, I'm going

703
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: to a lawyer, we're going to litigate. I'm taking you

704
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: to court. That's the worst one see you in court

705
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: sort of thing, because US lawyers try and do it

706
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: as collaboratively as possible too, so you can have a

707
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 3: divorce and use lawyers. People tend to think as soon

708
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: as I go to a lawyer, well, that's it. It's war,

709
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: you know, and it's not. We actually like to negotiate.

710
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: We try and help you settle things, Ama Kubli. But

711
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 3: all I could say is God to a lawyer open minded.

712
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 3: You don't know everything. I mean, I don't know everything,

713
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: but I trained, right I I if anything, my job

714
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 3: is to give you a device. And I think these

715
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 3: days with AI too, the mistake is I'm going to

716
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 3: go to the lawyer and tell them this is what

717
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 3: I deserve because chat gpt told me the amount of

718
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: chat gpt emails I get these days, I'm like, I

719
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: can't do this anymore. And if you're going to use

720
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: chat gpt, change the font, get rid of the m

721
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: dash because I know what you've done.

722
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.

723
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: And to anyone listening that pictures to my podcast, that

724
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: way that for me, I would love.

725
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: That too, thank you. It's look, I get it. I

726
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: use chattiput. It's great for working on your own ideas,

727
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: but make them your ideas first, and just don't go

728
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: to a lawyer and give them advice.

729
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: I also think I don't think people need to look

730
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: at lawyers as like to be feared or a bad thing.

731
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: Like I had a smoothie bar in Melbourne. I worked

732
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: with a commercial lawyer on that. I work with a

733
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 1: lawyer on my will, Matt and I froze embryos and

734
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: in that state that means we own them fifty to

735
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: fifty and obviously I age out he doesn't. I was like, sir,

736
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: you're signing them over to me, and he's like, yeah, no, worries, like.

737
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: You've gotta have the Like, I don't.

738
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: Think this is it's not a bad thing to know.

739
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: I think that there's fear in the unknown.

740
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: There's fear in the idea if lawyers cost money, or

741
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 3: lawyers like to lie, you know, they'll manipulate the truth

742
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 3: to make money. And I get that, but I think,

743
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 3: to use your word from earlier, we're actually your teammate.

744
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: You're using us for a reason, so we're on your side. Yeah,

745
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 3: and I get it. Lawyers are a bit expensive, but

746
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: you're better listening and taking the advice early on and

747
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: letting us negotiate because your fees are going to be

748
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 3: like a tenth of what they'll be if you take

749
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: that ego egotistical approach and you want to fight and

750
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 3: you want to litigate, and you want to end up

751
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 3: being called because yeah, you've been paying the big bucks.

752
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 3: But you know, again, you're paid to give advice. We

753
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,959
Speaker 3: go to doctors and we pay with that question, there's

754
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 3: this stigma around lawyers. Well do you know how many

755
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 3: people will say, oh, no, you know what, thanks, but

756
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 3: I'm actually not going to pay that bill. And half

757
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 3: the time I say, you know what, if I went

758
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 3: to a doctor surgery today, I wouldn't get a choice.

759
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: It's paid before you even entire. Yeah, it's just a

760
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 3: real yeah, I guess.

761
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: Yes, stigma.

762
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think I think it's also yeah, that

763
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: fear of like, oh, if I have one phone call,

764
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: is it going to cost me x amount of dollars?

765
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, lawyers are so like immigration that there is like, yeah,

766
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: I can't even even book contracts stuff like that. You

767
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: want to make sure you've got the team there so

768
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: that you feel secure moving forward, that you're putting your

769
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: best forward. I have to ask you something about Boo writing,

770
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: and then I promise how I'll let you go because

771
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: I know you are so jet lag.

772
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 2: Do you have any.

773
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: Tips because a lot of people have a dream of

774
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: writing a book, and I have a theory that everyone

775
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: has a book in them, absolutely right, Yeah, what and

776
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: it sounds like you you It sounds like when you

777
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: write it, it's like you're almost not journaling time, but

778
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: you're alone, like self healing kind of time. Do you

779
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: have any tips or rituals around manuscript writing or.

780
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: For me, it's mapping it out. So I know a

781
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: lot of people say just start writing, which is true,

782
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 3: but for me, it's having that real roadmap from the beginning.

783
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 3: What is the story I'm trying to tell? Where's the

784
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: beginning and end? But what are you teaching people along

785
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 3: the way? So I always like to map out, all right,

786
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 3: what are the different stages, a bit like a I guess,

787
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: like a letter. So here here's what I want to

788
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 3: get across, and then I'll break it down to great

789
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 3: each point I want to get across. Here are the examples.

790
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: Here are the stories I want to tell. My books

791
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 3: I suppose have always been a blend of I say, memoir,

792
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 3: but a blend of my life, Mike's experience, examples from

793
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 3: other people, and the message I want to give. Yeah,

794
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: so that's sort of how I structure them. But just

795
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: don't stop. I mean, you write it, it'll suck you

796
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: rewrite bits and pieces that's okay, so and be open

797
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 3: to feedback and criticism. I really shied away from that

798
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: in the collaborative coperent. I didn't wantnyone to read it.

799
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 3: I was so anxious over what will they think, what

800
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 3: if they want to change something. I think it's because

801
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 3: it's the area I work in as well. But the

802
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 3: book is more my lived experience and other parents lived experience.

803
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: It's not legal, I don't think at all. And I

804
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 3: guess for me growing up with a family lawyer and

805
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 3: my dad, who I'm now closest to, obviously because of Mum,

806
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 3: I was just so worried of what's he going to think?

807
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 3: He's going to judge? And I remember giving him a

808
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 3: chapter right just before I got published, and he came

809
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 3: out like, literally the red marker circle here, change this word.

810
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 3: I don't like this. And I thought, and this is

811
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 3: why I didn't show you. But you know what, you

812
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: need to be open to that feedback. And when I

813
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 3: started writing book two, he almost gave me the entire

814
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 3: idea of the first chapter. He sort of got so excited.

815
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 3: I was like, but the of the juggle and juggling

816
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: and the glass balls. I was like, yeah, Dad, Yeah,

817
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: that is very You used to write my speeches in

818
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 3: primary school for public speaking. Now you're writing my books.

819
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I've you have to give a little

820
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: shout out, little thank you. So do you do you

821
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: work with an editor though? Or do you when you

822
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: sign on with a publisher, they bring an editor, They

823
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: bring an editor, right, Because that's that's good because it

824
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: feels I always think when an editor jumps on, it's

825
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: kind of like this non biased person and they're going

826
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: to give you true and honestly foot through the consumer's eyes.

827
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: And that's how you have to often think about it too.

828
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: But something I found really interesting and I don't know

829
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 3: what you think because your book was how long ago?

830
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: I mean the most recent one was probably three or

831
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: four years.

832
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what I found is even from that time,

833
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: life's change a lot. Author wise. Do you have a

834
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 3: platform and how many followers do you have? And part

835
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: of me thinks, I don't know, ten fifteen years ago

836
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 3: when people were writing books, was it about followers then too?

837
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 3: Or was it about the author's true experience and you know,

838
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: bringing out a good book. And I've open to so

839
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 3: many publishers in the last six months, and I don't

840
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: know maybe your views are very different on this, and

841
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 3: I'm a big believer in social media obviously as you.

842
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 3: But I just think maybe for books, less about the

843
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 3: followers and more about the authenticity of the story too.

844
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think one of my favorite authors

845
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: is just one of the most prolificous, the exact same majors. Mean,

846
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: she's written something like sixteen seventeen books, Ridley Scott's got

847
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: the rights for a movie, right yeah, but not a

848
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: humongous online social just an epic grime fiction author, right exactly.

849
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 2: So I think it.

850
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure it's a bit like the actors

851
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: often say this as well.

852
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 2: I'm sure it doesn't hinder you to have an audience.

853
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: And I was on your beautiful substack last night as well,

854
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: and I just think it's use what you have, pop

855
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: it in your toolkit, and use it to your advantage.

856
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: But don't let that be what sells you. Let the

857
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: work sell you, let the art, let the writings sell you.

858
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: I think that would be my advice. You're entirely right,

859
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,240
Speaker 1: that's very true.

860
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: My friend. Can you come back on this pod soon?

861
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: I love this chat.

862
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: I need to keep coming back here. I love it.

863
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: I love it.

864
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: I feel like you love America.

865
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm kind of hooked. And if there weren't the

866
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: two kidos at home, trust me, I'd be here farm

867
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 3: or offered. But it's that guilt of do I leave them?

868
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: Do I go?

869
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: How often can I come without, you know, feeling guilty

870
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 3: for it? But no, it's been really good.

871
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 2: How do you navigate that? The guilt?

872
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 3: You've just got to let go and rely on other people,

873
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 3: which is hard. Stop being the control freak, right, other

874
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 3: people compare it my kids while I'm not there, and

875
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: you know what, they're not going to break, They'll be

876
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 3: all right.

877
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: And also this is part of your passion, right, It's

878
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: like that same thing like when we talk about reinventing us,

879
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: like if you want to be working here as well.

880
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: That's it and you want them to be proud of you.

881
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: So my son's only five, he doesn't completely get it,

882
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: but he gets so excited where I'm home or here

883
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: look a little new segments. It's exciting in itself. It's

884
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 3: nothing like some A list celebrity. But he'll go to

885
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 3: school and he'll run up to his teacher. My mum's

886
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: on TV today and when I dropped him off at

887
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 3: school would have been yesterday before now whenever got on

888
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 3: the plane he ran up and goes that plane up

889
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 3: there in a few hours, that'll be my mummy going

890
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: to America and my heart. I was like that just

891
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 3: the cutest thing ever.

892
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: But how cool like the energy of him seeing his

893
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,720
Speaker 1: mom go and do the thing that she loves.

894
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: Most of it, you know, I think so, and making

895
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 3: something beautiful out of what was a pretty shitty situation

896
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 3: that no one really wants to be in, and trying

897
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: to I guess, make it more normal for him or something.

898
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 3: I don't want to say glamorize it because I don't

899
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: know that's the right word, but almost that, Like he

900
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: gets so excited now where he'll say I know what

901
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 3: co parent means? Or are you going to talk about

902
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: the co parenting? Or where's your co parent book? And

903
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 3: we have little matching t shirts that say the collaborative

904
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: co parent and for him it's so exciting. So yeah,

905
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: I don't know. I tried to make it more special

906
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 3: for him.

907
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is part of it all. Oh, thank you

908
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: so much. I could talk to you all day long.

909
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: Thank you.

910
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: Oh thanks for jumping on.

911
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: So there you have it. What do you think of Gabriella.

912
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: Isn't she wonderful? I told you, so smart, so warm,

913
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: so willing to chat on any topic. Like you know,

914
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: we were talking about rebuilding your life in your thirties

915
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: and forties. We were talking about like values and why

916
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 1: the kiddos are so important, but also like this idea

917
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: of like the four pillars of communication.

918
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: I loved And yeah, I don't know.

919
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: I just thought she's the kind of person that you

920
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: kind of want to have in your back pocket, who

921
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: just is smart, gets it, and is marching to the

922
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 1: beat of her own drum. I hope that's a vibe

923
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: you got, because that's the vibey I felt. Really looking

924
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: forward to her next book, The Good Girl Blueprint, which

925
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: is all about perfectionism, and she talks about the first chapter.

926
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: You would have heard this in the chap sometimes we're

927
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: juggling too many balls, and the ones that are glass

928
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: you can't really drop, but the ones that are that

929
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: are bouncy and rubber, you can let them go. And

930
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: I think it's about like the power of saying no

931
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: and being okay to go. I'm going to say no

932
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 1: to this thing so I can give one hundred percent

933
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: of myself to this other thing. It was really cool anyway,

934
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: I hope you love the chart. Gabriella, thank you so

935
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: much jumping on the pod. You're wonderful. That's a wrap

936
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you

937
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: to our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram.

938
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast

939
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 2: is available on all streaming platforms.

940
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape and comment,

941
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,959
Speaker 1: and of course spread the love.