1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. Now. 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: So here's the thing. If you don't understand what happened 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: in class, to come home and have to try to 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: work it out without the teacher, that can be overwhelming. 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: And now he is the stars of our show, My 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: mum and dad. 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 2: Hello, this is a very nervous doctor Justin Coulson, the 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: author of six books about raising happy families. 10 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 3: Why are you nervous? 11 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: Just because I know what we're talking about today? And 12 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 2: this is one of those topics that is provocative and 13 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: that gets people on edge. I'm here with my wife 14 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: and co host this is Happy Families, Kylie, and today. 15 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 3: We're talking about homework. 16 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: Homework that I despise, homework that I think children just 17 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: shouldn't be doing homework that I have very strong opinions about, 18 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: asking me what I really think? 19 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 3: You do have very strong opinions about this, And we 20 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 3: did for a. 21 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: Little bit from time to time with this, had our 22 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: moments on this, haven't we? 23 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, So can you just tell me what is the 24 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: theory behind giving our kids homework? I mean literally, from 25 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 3: the time our kids hit prep they're coming home with 26 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 3: stuff that they have to achieve at home. 27 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 28 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, So what's the ideal behind it? 29 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: Well, this is really interesting because homework has just always 30 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: been a thing. Well, one day it became a thing 31 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: at least, and that's kind of what we've always done since. 32 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: And nobody really researched whether the homework was helpful or 33 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: not for decades and decades after it started. But the 34 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: theory is, there's work that you've got to get done, 35 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: and we want to make sure that we're consolidating learning. 36 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: So we're going to send it home so the kids 37 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: can do an extra shift, do some overtime when you 38 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: get home. Kids, we're not going to pay you for it, 39 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: but let's get you to do some overtime. And the 40 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: idea is, let's consolidate the learning. Let's make sure that 41 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: you're not falling behind in class. It's that kind of thing, 42 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: you know. 43 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: I grew up watching a little house on the prairie 44 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 3: and they used to go to school every day. They 45 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 3: didn't go home with homework. 46 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: No, in the olden days they didn't. And then some 47 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: one obviously had the idea that sometimes if you don't 48 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: finish your work at school, you need to take it 49 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 2: home and finish it. And someone else had an idea 50 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: that we need to make sure that you don't forget 51 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: the stuff that we taught you today, so when you 52 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: go home, you need to practice it. Repetition is the 53 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 2: mother of all learning, which is true. It's just that 54 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: there's no really great evidence that we should be taking 55 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: at home and repeating it at home when we can 56 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: repeat it at school the next day. 57 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 3: Okay, So you know how I feel about the researchy stuff. 58 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: But you know, just give me a little bit of insight. 59 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 3: What does the research actually tell us about homework and 60 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 3: our kids well being? 61 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: How do you feel about the researching stuff? 62 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: Ah, just tell me the real life stuff. 63 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 2: Science is the best way for us to know whether 64 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: stuff is working or not. There's so many things that 65 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: as a result of science, we know that we otherwise 66 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: wouldn't all these old wives tales that have been disproven 67 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: because good science says, you know, if you change this, 68 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 2: you actually discover whether or not it's really having an 69 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: impact on stuff. So I don't think we can go 70 00:02:59,480 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: poop pooing. 71 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 3: I'm not poopying science. I just have to listen to 72 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 3: it every day, Okay, so you're tired of my Yeah, 73 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: I am tired of your tirades. But there is some 74 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 3: important stuff and I do learn lots. 75 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: So yeah, So when we look at the science around homework, 76 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: there is well, I don't know how to say it politely, 77 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: there is not really any strong evidence from really or 78 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: there's no strong evidence from decades of research that homework 79 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: on average is good for our kids. In fact, most 80 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 2: of the research shows that it has either a neutral 81 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: or a negative effect. Now I say not really, because 82 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: it's really hard to research this and to do it well. 83 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: And one of the main reasons is because there's all 84 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: different kinds of homework, and so for me, it's as 85 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: much about whether homework is given or not as what 86 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: kind of homework is given. You see, some activities are 87 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: going to be really really good for our children's learning 88 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: and for reinforcement and for consolidating, and some activities are 89 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: just a waste of time. So on average, the side 90 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: iientific research shows and has done now for about thirty years, 91 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: maybe thirty five years, that homework. Again, I'm saying on average. Oh, 92 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: and I've got to say another really important thing here. 93 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: Homework on average for children up to around the age 94 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 2: of twelve thirteen, fourteen. So essentially what I say is 95 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: primary school has zero benefit, literally zero benefit for the 96 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 2: average kid getting the average amount of homework and doing 97 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: the average sort of stuff for homework. It's a waste 98 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 2: of time. There's no evidence to support it. Once the 99 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: kids are in high school, there is some evidence that 100 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 2: up to an hour in the early years and then 101 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,119 Speaker 2: up to two hours in their later high school years 102 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 2: does have an It gives them advantage academically, so it's 103 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: worth doing it once they're in high school. But for 104 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: primary school kids, just stop. 105 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 3: Okay, So can you step me through what it is 106 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 3: that you actually are really disgruntled about when it comes 107 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 3: to homework. We're talking general terms here, Yeah, what the 108 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 3: average school is working with in homework parameters? What is 109 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 3: it that really kind of gets under your skin? 110 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: Okay? So, first of all, the average school has a 111 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: directive that's been given by the education department in their state, 112 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: and I think every state in Australia and every territory 113 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: in Australia has this that children have to have homework. 114 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, Melbourne ran Victoria ran a 115 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: parliamentary inquiry into homework and they didn't find any evidence 116 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 2: to support the use of homework, at least in primary school. 117 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: They're still doing it, by the way, they're still giving 118 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: homework out. But the Parliamentary Inquiry couldn't even justify the 119 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 2: use of homework with the Education Department say no, no, 120 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: we've got to keep on making sure that kids are 121 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: doing homework. There's a handful of rebel principles around Australia 122 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: that have said we're actually going to follow the evidence 123 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: and the kids don't have to do it and guess 124 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: what the kids are doing. Fine, students doing all right. 125 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: But if I was to list my grievances with homework, 126 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 2: what I'll do, because I'm going to talk for way 127 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: too long and get two carried away. I'm going to 128 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: share the first couple, then we'll take a quick break 129 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: and I'll share the rest of them and talk about 130 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: what we should do as a result. So here we go. 131 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: Number one, there's just no evidence to support it, especially 132 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: in those primary school years, full stop, end of story. 133 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: If we're going to be science driven, we need actually 134 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: look at what the science says, and the science says 135 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: it's pointless for kids who are in primary school period. 136 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 3: So what about the parent who's got a child who's 137 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: really struggling with their mass, for instance, and they decide 138 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 3: to hire a tutor to come and have tuttering. 139 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: There's a different process than homework. Okay, So if I'm 140 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: going to put my children into a tutoring class, that 141 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: means that they're going to be doing deliberate practice with 142 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 2: a qualified trainer or teacher who is going to guide 143 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: them and improve them. That's kind of like saying i 144 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 2: want my children to learn the piano, but I'm never 145 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: going to ask them to do any practice. Okay, we 146 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: need them to have a piano teacher so that teacher 147 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: can help them to get better. So I've got a 148 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: child who is falling behind. I decided to put them 149 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 2: in tutoring. That's a deliberate form of practice and teaching 150 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: with a qualified instructor that's going to help them. That's 151 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: totally different to here's some homework, go home, fill in 152 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: the homework matrix, you know, fill in the three of 153 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: the boxes in our grid, make sure you finish this worksheet. 154 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: Totally different kind of homework. Let's talk about the other 155 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: reasons that I'm not a out of homework. In just a. 156 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: Second, It's the Happy Families podcast. 157 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 4: Our Screens Creating Tension at home, tweens, teens and Screens 158 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions. 159 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 4: Bye today at happyfamilies dot com dot au slash shop. 160 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: The kids are back at school, after school activities are 161 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: starting and we are once again organizing how to get 162 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: our kids to and from it all. So has the 163 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: old should I or shouldn't I give them a mobile 164 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: phone debate be down in your head? 165 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: Well? 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So we've already discussed that there is 180 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 3: no research to support children under the age of twelve, thirteen, 181 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: even up to fourteen, actually getting any significant benefits out 182 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: of doing homework. 183 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: Any academic benefit at all. In fact, it's neutral, if 184 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: not negative, on average. Now I've got a handful of 185 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: other reasons that I'm anti homework. I'm going to run 186 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: through them pretty quickly. 187 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 3: Okay. 188 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: Number one, it adds to my workload as a parent, definitely. 189 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: I've got stuff going on. 190 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 3: And I know that when you know, I sit around 191 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 3: with mums having a coffee, they feel really really stretched 192 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 3: by this. 193 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 2: Often because I talked to some mums and dads who 194 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: will do a couple of hours of homework with their 195 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: children after school and after work and the kids are 196 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: like eight years old. Wow. And you know else, The 197 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: reason it takes them two hours is because the parents 198 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: don't know how to do that. 199 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 3: I think that's why you really don't like homework how 200 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 3: to do it. 201 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: Every time my kids come home with a c I'm like, 202 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: oh gosh, I don't know how I ever got a PhD. 203 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: It's really stressful for a lot of kids like now, 204 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 2: I'm fine with children being uncomfortable, and I'm absolutely for 205 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: children doing things that are hard and pushing themselves. So 206 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: here's the thing. If you don't understand what happened in class, 207 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: to come home and have to try to work it 208 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: out without the teacher, that can be overwhelming for the 209 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: majority of children. And it's not what education is meant 210 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: to be about. 211 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: Well, especially when mum and dad try to teach you 212 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 3: the archaic way speak. 213 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: It was different from the eighties, back in the nineties, 214 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: whatever it was when we were kids. I mean I 215 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 2: was a product of early nineteen eighties primary schooling. Yeah, 216 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: and they do everything differently today than how they did 217 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: it when I was a kid. So it's not fair 218 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: for the children. It's also really hard on the parents. 219 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: But the other thing is, and we've watched this with 220 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: some of our kids, once they have got it figured 221 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: out in class, coming home and repeating it, it's just boring. 222 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: Like they sit there and they're so bored, and it 223 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 2: really extinguishes that flame of curiosity when you're just doing 224 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: boring stuff. Next thing, it adds to teachers loads. I 225 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: mean I work in and around schools all the time now, 226 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 2: and I am astounded at how hard teachers work compared 227 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: to what they were doing back in the eighties. Not 228 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: that I want to belittle what teachers did back then, 229 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 2: but as a comparison, the expectation on teachers today is 230 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 2: extraordinary compared to back then. And the last thing that 231 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: they need to be worried about is whether or not 232 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: homework got done or whether the dog ate it. 233 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 3: And I know that from experience. When we've kind of, 234 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: you know, shared our views on homework and got a 235 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: pardon for each of our children, you can see the 236 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: relief in their face as one less child they've got 237 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: to worry about. 238 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think the last couple of reasons that 239 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: I'm anti homework creates conflict at home, you know, because 240 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 2: a child doesn't want to do it because they are 241 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: feeling unmotivated or they are bored, or they're struggling, and 242 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 2: then the parents are like, you've got to do your homework, 243 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: and next thing, you know that there's this big conflict 244 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 2: in the kitchen over whether or not the homework's going 245 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: to get done. One of my biggest issues though, is 246 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: that homework leaves less time for the important stuff. 247 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that That's where I really struggle with 248 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 3: homework policy is just when my kids come home, I 249 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 3: try so hard to be available to them, and yet 250 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 3: I'm going to spend half my afternoon staring at paperwork. 251 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 2: Well not at our house, thank you very much, missus 252 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: Happy families. But let me just add something on this though. 253 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 2: If parents are going to let their kids just sit 254 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: in front of video games and consume screens and do nothing, 255 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 2: then I probably would rather that they were doing homework. 256 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: I mean, that's what I would say about that, because 257 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: I want children to be either having some good quality 258 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: downtime or using their brains, you know, being efficient, learning, growing, developing, 259 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: doing something like that. That's what childhood is kind of for. 260 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 2: But I don't think either of them are really good alternatives. 261 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: I'd rather than be doing their art or their music, 262 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: or their drama, or their sport or stands in the backyard, yeah, 263 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 2: going for a swim, jumping on the trampoline, actually connecting 264 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: with their family, riding the bike down the street to 265 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: catch up with a friend. Those are the kinds of 266 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: things that I want to see kids doing in the afternoon. 267 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: Going to the grocery store with Mum to buy the 268 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: groceries for tonight. That's what I think is far more valuable. 269 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 2: That's the important stuff that they could be doing, and 270 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: sometimes homework gets in the way of that. And lastly, 271 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: it's just so generally uninspiring, like goly who wants to 272 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: do it? So that's why I'm against it. 273 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: That's a really great list, and it's given me some 274 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 3: food for thought, and I generally agree with everything that 275 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 3: you're saying. In my experience, most of the homework that's 276 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 3: coming home with our children takes them about ten or 277 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 3: fifteen minutes, and I just I don't see the point 278 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 3: of rocking the boat if it's really not adding anngs 279 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: to the overall running of my house. 280 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I guess I've kind of softened my attitude 281 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: even though I've gone on this a big rant today, 282 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: because of two things. First of all, most of the time, 283 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: our kids have been happy to do it, even though 284 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 2: I'm telling them not to. They they're like that it's 285 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 2: just easier if I do it. They actually sit down 286 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 2: and red. 287 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: And they do. They feel ostracized, whether it be by 288 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 3: their peers or their teachers at times when even though 289 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: they have been given that pardon to not do it, 290 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 3: and so yeah, I just I feel like it's really 291 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 3: important that, you know, we kind of run this through 292 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 3: our own filters and work out what's going to work 293 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: best for us and our children. 294 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, In terms of rocking the boat, you know, 295 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: I think that if there's no evidence for something and 296 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 2: it's causing distress, challenge, and difficulty in the family, it's 297 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: worth rocking the boat. 298 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 3: It's worth So maybe if it was causing distress, then 299 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 3: I would one hundred percent rock the boat. But in 300 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 3: most cases our children have actually not been too worried 301 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 3: whether they do it or not. 302 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 2: Now I need to I need to highlight a couple 303 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: of things. First of all, the confession, I've definitely softened 304 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: my stance. The reason is not only because some kids 305 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 2: just like doing homework, but also we're talking about averages, right, 306 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: So on average it doesn't help. On average, it's actually 307 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: neutral or even harmful. But not every child is average, 308 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: which means that in some cases homework might actually be helpful. 309 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: And I do say this tentatively because I think any 310 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: difference is a probably going to be very, very small, 311 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: and they might come at substantial costs. But you know, 312 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: sometimes homework can help there are a couple of kinds 313 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: of homework that I really do encourage. 314 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 3: Yes, I would love you to share that because they, 315 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 3: one hundred percent are things that we support in our 316 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: home and have made a significant difference in our children's education. 317 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: Number one Reading. You cannot read to your kids enough. 318 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: You cannot get them to read to you enough. Reading, reading, reading. 319 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: Of all of the things that we've talked about today, 320 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: homework has no evidence to support it in primary school, 321 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: but reading. I don't see reading as homework. I see 322 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: reading as just what you do. Because humans read, We 323 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: know how to read, and reading is good for our learning, 324 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: and we love to read. We don't do homework. We 325 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 2: don't feel in the reading wheel and say our read 326 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: for twenty minutes. We just read. And the research shows 327 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: that the more our kids read, the better they're likely 328 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: to do academically. That's the typical outcome. Reading is so 329 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: strongly associated with great academic outcomes, and with curiosity, with learning, 330 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 2: with openness and new experiences, with conscientiousness. This is the 331 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: number one thing that I would encourage parents to do. 332 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 3: And we love reading with our kids. It's one of 333 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: the highlights of our days to just kind of cuddle 334 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 3: up at the end of the night and read a book. 335 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: Second thing, projects. If the kids are interested in something, 336 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: then turn on the computer and let them learn, let 337 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: them do projects, let them create, let them connect, let 338 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: them develop their understanding of stuff. There's loads, again, loads 339 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: of research that shows that when children are self directed 340 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: and autonomous in their learning, and they're learning about stuff 341 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: that they actually care about, they're going to do better. 342 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: And the third thing, I just reckon, do stuff together. 343 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: And when you're doing stuff, count or spell or read, 344 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: give the children an opportunity to run down the supermarket 345 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 2: aisle and do something. You know, do jobs and chores 346 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: for you, clean up around the house, be involved in 347 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: family life. I don't see that as homework though. I 348 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: see that as just living a whole and fulfilling childhood. 349 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: So that's my homework spill. 350 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 3: So take home message for today is there is no 351 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 3: evidence that homework. 352 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: Helps in primary school. 353 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 3: In primary school, yes, but one thing that does definitely 354 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: make a huge difference to your children all round is reading, YEP, 355 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 3: reading and self directed learning. And if you can tap 356 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: into those areas, your child is just going to thrive. 357 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and hopefully if you decide that you want to 358 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: talk to your your children's teachers about it, you won't 359 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: be rocking the boat too much. I think it's a 360 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: worthwhile conversation because it's not great for our kids. If 361 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: your kids are happy doing their homework, just leave them be. 362 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: We really hope that you're happy listen to the podcast. 363 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: If you are, we'd love your five star ratings and 364 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: reviews and Apple podcasts. Please let people know what you 365 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: think of the podcast so other people can make their 366 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: families happier and I'm hopefully stress free in the afternoons 367 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: as well. We appreciate Justin rule On from Bridge for 368 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 2: producing the podcast, and our executive producer is Craig Bruce. 369 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 2: If you would like more information about how to make 370 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: your family happier, you can find out all about Happy 371 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: Families memberships at our website happyfamilies dot com dot au.