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Speaker 1: Well, Larry's certainly a lot happening around the place. Plenty

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Speaker 1: of messages coming through this morning on the text line

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Speaker 1: as well, but we know the big news it is

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Speaker 1: still being discussed this morning is the fact that the

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Speaker 1: opposition leaders have been forced to apologize for misusing a

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Speaker 1: government vehicle on several occasions. Now joining me on the

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Speaker 1: line is the Minister for Education, Joe Hersey. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to your minister. Seem to be having a bit of

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Speaker 1: an issue there with that phone line for some reason.

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Speaker 1: Let me try that again, minister, can you hear me?

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Speaker 2: I can. Good morning, Katy, good morning.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you. Now, firstly, what was your reaction

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Speaker 1: to the opposition leader using the government's white car service

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Speaker 1: for personal trips sixty five times?

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Speaker 2: I found it interesting. But in saying that, Katie, I

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Speaker 2: have also asked for some clarification around those guidelines moving forward,

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Speaker 2: so that we all know exactly you know what the

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Speaker 2: what those guidelines are.

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Speaker 1: How come have you used it in an inappropriate way

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Speaker 1: as well?

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Speaker 2: Well? I have. I was in media earlier on this

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Speaker 2: morning and they asked me the question. I used it

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Speaker 2: once when I was running late to an appointment at

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Speaker 2: Casarina and that's that's the only time that I've used

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Speaker 2: it in that instance.

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Speaker 1: So hang on, So running late to get so sorry, Joe,

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Speaker 1: let me just get to the bottom of this. So

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Speaker 1: running late to get to a personal appointment. Where were

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Speaker 1: you catching that white car from from Parliament House? From

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Speaker 1: work or what.

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Speaker 2: Was the guy from work? From work? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And then what did you did you use it to

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Speaker 1: return home? Did you use it? Did you use it

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Speaker 1: to return home? Did you make that drive a wait

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Speaker 1: for you outside? How did it happen?

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Speaker 2: No? No, the driver doesn't wait when you go to

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Speaker 2: an appointment like that. And I got the bus back

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Speaker 2: into town. Do you think my first instance of using

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Speaker 2: the bus?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know from the outset, I

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Speaker 1: would say one use is very different to sixty five. However,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make it okay. Do you think it's appropriate

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Speaker 1: that you used it in that way?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's why I've been That's why I have asked

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Speaker 2: and have thought clarification. But that one instance, you know

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Speaker 2: that I've just reflected on since the opposition leader has

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Speaker 2: come out, that trip if I calculated it, because I've

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Speaker 2: also you know, used uber or whatever as well, which

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Speaker 2: is thirty thirty dollars uber or it was a dollar

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Speaker 2: fifty in the white car. I'm not saying that that's

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Speaker 2: that's acceptable.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point that you make there. So how

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Speaker 1: is it that it works out to be one dollar

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Speaker 1: in the white car comparatively, you know, to thirty dollars

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Speaker 1: in an uber because I've been wondering this how they

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Speaker 1: summed up the six hundred dollars dollars for the opposition later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't know how did that, but with

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Speaker 2: the it is Catherina is fourteen kilometers and the kilometer rate,

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Speaker 2: you know, worked out to be a dollar fifty of fuel.

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Speaker 2: But you know, as regional members, we either fly to

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Speaker 2: Darwin or don't and don't have a car here. So

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Speaker 2: it's you're either going to use a cab charge or

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Speaker 2: the white car, depending on what the instance is. As

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Speaker 2: you but.

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Speaker 1: Also, I mean to a lot of people listening this morning,

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Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. Obviously you're based in Catherine,

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Speaker 1: but you guys already earn a heck of a lot

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Speaker 1: of money, So you get that white car service to

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Speaker 1: get to meetings, to get to government business. Nobody expects

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Speaker 1: that then you are using a private chauffeur service as

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Speaker 1: your own personal taxi.

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Speaker 2: No, that's correct, but like I just said, you can

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Speaker 2: and not to condone it, but just to explain the difference,

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Speaker 2: is it's either a dollar fifty in fuel or it's

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Speaker 2: thirty dollar buber or the other thing that we are.

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Speaker 2: If I fly up here, I can have a higher car. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So I don't have a higher car for the week

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Speaker 2: because I don't need it all the time, and to me,

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Speaker 2: that's a waste of taxpayer funds. So I could have

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Speaker 2: had a higher car, and I don't know what a

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Speaker 2: higher car is, but they're generally one hundred hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty dollars a day maybe, or it was a dollar

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Speaker 2: fifty of fuel that my trip was.

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Speaker 1: So I guess it's a precarious situation now the government

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Speaker 1: finds themselves in where you guys can't even really be

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Speaker 1: criticizing the opposition leader for the missuse of this chauffeur

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Speaker 1: service because presumably others are doing it.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think that's the matter for the opposition that

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Speaker 2: she dealt with last week, and that is exactly why

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Speaker 2: I've asked for clarification around this. So moving forward, we

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Speaker 2: know exactly what you know that.

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Speaker 1: The isn't there isn't there a cabinet and book.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there is a cabinet handbook, but there are some

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Speaker 2: areas where there are blurred lines, and so we just

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Speaker 2: asked for some more clarification.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, So in your I mean, in this situation, like

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Speaker 1: I had, I was going to ask you if you

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Speaker 1: thought the position of the opposition leader was untenable. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what do you think now?

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Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's a matter for her. You know,

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Speaker 2: she came out and she said what you know, gave

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Speaker 2: her apology last week, and I think that's a matter

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Speaker 2: that they've dealt with as an opposition team. And I

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Speaker 2: go back to saying, we have asked for clarification in

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Speaker 2: moving forward what those guidelines are, and just to you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe clear up some of those blurred lines.

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Speaker 1: Look, I've got to say I'm a little bit surprised

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Speaker 1: that there are blurred lines because to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: as somebody who worked as a staffer on the fifth

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Speaker 1: floor many many years ago, I would suggest that there

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be blurredlines. You know, if you are at work

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Speaker 1: and you are going on a work appointment, then you

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Speaker 1: know that is when that car may be used. I

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Speaker 1: do think there is an added layer for ministers and

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Speaker 1: even I guess in some ways potentially for the opposition leader,

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Speaker 1: where you have got security concerns in different ways, so

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Speaker 1: there may be the need to be utilizing that service.

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Speaker 1: But I think what tax payers expect is that, to

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Speaker 1: put it really bluntly, no one's taking the pisce.

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Speaker 2: No. No, that's exactly right. And you know, which is

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Speaker 2: why when the opposition leader came out and said that

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Speaker 2: last week, I thought about the trips that I've done.

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Speaker 2: I can honestly only think there was that one trip.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think, as I said, it's as

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Speaker 2: a regional member, we don't have I could either get

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Speaker 2: a higher car up here or I can get a taxi,

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Speaker 2: and both of them are more expensive than the dollar

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Speaker 2: fifty that was used to get to that appointment that

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Speaker 2: I was running late to.

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Speaker 1: Taking into account, then for those regional members, for those

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Speaker 1: regional members, taking that into account, do you think you

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Speaker 1: guys should be able to utilize that white car service

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Speaker 1: while you're in town for your personal use.

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Speaker 2: I think there needs to be some clarification on what

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Speaker 2: you can use it for, which is what we've asked.

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Speaker 1: For all right, let's talk more about the announcement being

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Speaker 1: made today. You are announcing new measures to hold parents

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Speaker 1: accountable if they're not sending their kids to school. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk me through the detail on this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So, when we came to government, we said that

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Speaker 2: we would hold parents accountable for getting their children to school.

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Speaker 2: We have also been working with the federal government to

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Speaker 2: make sure that you know, this is something that we

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Speaker 2: can do as a government up here, and so we

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Speaker 2: have been back from January, we've been working with the

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Speaker 2: federal government who have enabled us. And like I said

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Speaker 2: this morning, I thank the federal government for working with

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Speaker 2: us to make sure that the Education Department, now the

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Speaker 2: attendance teams can go and hold those parents to account. Now,

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Speaker 2: these are not parents that their child is missing one

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Speaker 2: day or two days. These are constant, you know, chronic

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Speaker 2: unattendance at school. And so I know we've spoken before

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Speaker 2: about the intensive support role, and so you know, we've

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Speaker 2: already seen the attendance offices. They've had over six thousand

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Speaker 2: successful compliance visits resulting in over three hundred kids back

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Speaker 2: to school. But what we want is we want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that all parents know that the importance of

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Speaker 2: getting their kids to school and to do that, get

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Speaker 2: into a meaningful education, into employment, and you cannot do

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Speaker 2: that if you are not attending school. What's the threshold,

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Speaker 2: the Lord?

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Speaker 1: What is the threshold going to be for non school

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Speaker 1: attendants before parents are referred for income management? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know you mentioned there it's not going to be

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Speaker 1: just a once off for or you know, we know

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Speaker 1: that kids might get sick, might get a virus for

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Speaker 1: a week. What's the threshold going to be?

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Speaker 2: So those children that are on the intensive support role

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Speaker 2: are children that have not been at school for twenty

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Speaker 2: days or more. And the department or the attendance officers

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Speaker 2: right across and I've been out with them right across

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Speaker 2: the territory. They work with families and the children to

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Speaker 2: get them to comply to come back to school. But

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Speaker 2: if they have not complied, and they have not once

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Speaker 2: they've got a compliant notice, if they have not come

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Speaker 2: back to school, you know, then they will be referred

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Speaker 2: to income management.

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Speaker 1: So can you talk us through, Joe, like, how's it

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Speaker 1: going to work in a practical sort of sense. I

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Speaker 1: know you sort of touched on it there, but for

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Speaker 1: some listening this morning, they might be thinking Oh, hang

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Speaker 1: on a second. Are the line's going to be blurred here?

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Speaker 1: You know if somebody is sick for a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks or goes away for a couple of weeks, So

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Speaker 1: are we're going to end up with the school attendance

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Speaker 1: officers onto us.

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Speaker 2: I just want to be very clear, Katie. This is

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Speaker 2: not for people that are going on holidays. It's not

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Speaker 2: for people that you know their child is missing one

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Speaker 2: or two days of school. These are chronic non attenders.

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Speaker 2: As I said on the intensive support role, that means

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Speaker 2: you've missed twenty days or more of school. And so

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Speaker 2: it is those people that will be targeted and that

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Speaker 2: they are being worked with already from the attendance team.

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Speaker 2: And those people, if they continue to flout the system

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Speaker 2: and not get their children to school, they will be referred.

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Speaker 2: We now have the capacity to refer these families, the

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Speaker 2: parents to income management and that's through our work that

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Speaker 2: we've been doing with the federal government.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that income management then does that happen

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Speaker 1: through sen to Lenk or how exactly does that happen.

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Speaker 2: Through the Services Australia. There's a referral from the attendance

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Speaker 2: teams that they are now able to do. And this

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Speaker 2: is not a new thing, Katie, because this is something

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Speaker 2: that the Circuit Breaker team have been working with families

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Speaker 2: through territory families. So it's nothing new. And I know

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Speaker 2: when the Chief Minister was talking about the seven point

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Speaker 2: plan working with the federal government, it was brought up then.

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Speaker 2: But also when we went to the election last year,

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Speaker 2: we said that we would hold parents accountable for getting

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Speaker 2: their kids to school, get back to basics, and boost

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Speaker 2: literacy and numeracy. So it's not anything new. But we

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Speaker 2: now just have got the capacity to refer by working

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Speaker 2: with the federal government.

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Speaker 1: So when exactly or when exactly is it going to

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Speaker 1: come into effect? Is it going to happen immediately or

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Speaker 1: for this term?

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Speaker 2: So this will be available and the attendant teams will

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Speaker 2: be able to refer this term and score goes back

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Speaker 2: this week.

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Speaker 1: In terms of legislative changes, Do you require any to

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Speaker 1: make this happen?

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Speaker 2: No, No, there are no This is something that we

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Speaker 2: can do. There's just been some training with staff YEP

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Speaker 2: their operational issues with the department, but we now have

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Speaker 2: the capacity to do these referrals and they will be

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Speaker 2: happening this term.

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Speaker 1: Minister, what do you say to those who feel that

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Speaker 1: these changes might disproportionately harm poor or Aboriginal families who

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Speaker 1: are already among the most targeted some would claim by

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Speaker 1: the legal system.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is not for any specific people out there.

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Speaker 2: This is for anybody. It doesn't matter what your background is,

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Speaker 2: what nationality you are, or what the color of your

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Speaker 2: skin is. This is for anybody out there that chronically

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Speaker 2: has children that chronically disengage and not attending school. So

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a simple message there. If you don't

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Speaker 2: want to go on income management, get your kids to school,

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Speaker 2: because they can't be educated, Katie, if they don't turn

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Speaker 2: up to school. We know that there's kids out there,

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Speaker 2: you know, some of them are breaking into people's houses

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Speaker 2: and whatever. If they are being educated in school, then

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Speaker 2: they're not going to be out on the streets. And

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Speaker 2: it is about making sure that these children are looked

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Speaker 2: after and they are getting an education to be, as

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Speaker 2: I have said many many times, to get on a

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Speaker 2: pathway to meaningful employment and into a job because as

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Speaker 2: a government, that's what we want.

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Speaker 1: Well, Minnesota, be really keen to hear how it's going

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Speaker 1: over the next few weeks to months, just a quick one.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of messages coming through about this situation

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Speaker 1: with the vehicles. Somebody's just messaged through and said, Katie,

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Speaker 1: don't MLAs also get a car allowance.

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Speaker 2: That's correct. But if you you are a regional member

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Speaker 2: and you have come up, whether you've flown up or

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Speaker 2: to Darwin or whatever, you don't have a vehicle here

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Speaker 2: to use, so that's when you have. You can either

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Speaker 2: get a higher car or a taxi cab charge, or

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Speaker 2: you can as a ministerial person, you can use the

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Speaker 2: white cars.

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Speaker 1: Well, Minister Joe Hersey, we are going to have to

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Speaker 1: leave it there. Thank you very much for your time

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, and thanks listening.

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Speaker 1: Thank you