1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Last week, I put my name on the waiting list 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: for a puppy. It's been a decision I was umming 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: and ring over for the better part of a year, 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: and I finally made it in part thanks to my 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 1: interview with Gretchen Ruben. I think of Gretchen as my 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: own personal happiness guru. She's the host of the popular 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: weekly podcast Happier with Gretchen Ruben and is the author 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: of several best selling books, including the massive international bestseller 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: The Happiness Project. When I spoke to Gretchen earlier this year, 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to know how one of the world's most 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: famous happiness experts makes decisions to lead to a happier life. 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: And Gretchen's methods for making better decisions have helped me 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: immensely and also led to me getting a puppy, or 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: at least being on the waiting list to get one. So, 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: if you have some big decisions to make in your life, 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: at work, or just in life in general, it turns 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: out that asking to write my questions is often the 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: key to making decisions that lead to a happier life. 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: My name is doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, And this 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: is how I work a show about how to help 22 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: you do your best work. On today is my favorite 23 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: Tip episode, we go back to an interview from the 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: past and I pick out my favorite tip from that interview. 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: In today's show, I speak with Gretchen Ruben about how 26 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: she makes her biggest decisions. 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: Well, I'm a big pros and cons person, so I 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: will make that list, but I have found a super 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: useful chest when I have a big decision where the 30 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: pros and cons feel very balanced, and sometimes it's sort 31 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: of like an apple and an orange. So nope, a 32 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: pros and cons list doesn't even really help you. So, 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: like we were trying to decide it's a family whether 34 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: to get a dog, like five or six years ago, 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: and it's sort of like there's all these pros, there's 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: all these cons, but in the end, it's just like 37 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: do you want to have a dog or do you 38 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: not want to have a dog? And I couldn't figure 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: out how to decide, and then I realized, So my 40 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: test is choose the bigger life. And I think for 41 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: some people a bigger life would be a life without 42 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: a dog, because They're like, I could travel more freely, 43 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 2: I'd have more disposable income. I can always get a 44 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: dog later. That's the bigger life. But I knew that 45 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: for my family, the bigger life was to get the dog, 46 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 2: and so we got our dog. We'd love our dog. 47 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: Barnaby was exactly the right decision. And I've talked to 48 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: people like I talked to someone where he and his 49 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: wife were trying to decide whether they should move to 50 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: be closer to family. So it's like, now we're in 51 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: the big city, it's so exciting, but life is harder. 52 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: We could move back home, and like that's a smaller city, 53 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: so maybe we don't have the same opportunities, but we're 54 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 2: closer to family and friends, and we're thinking about having 55 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: a family, you know. And it's like pros and cons 56 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: and you go back and forth. And I said, Okay, 57 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: what's the bigger life. Choose the bigger life. And he 58 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 2: was instantly He's like, the bigger life for us is 59 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: to move back. That's just a bigger life for us. 60 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: It's more opportunity, more friends, more family, like and he 61 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: just knew it right away. And then and then he 62 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: was sort of like, Okay, that's kind of like all 63 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: I need to know, because only you know what the 64 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 2: bigger life is for you. But it's it's clarifying. I 65 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: think I found it very clarifying. 66 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: What is about the questions that you usually ask yourself 67 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: when you're making decisions about how to spend your time 68 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: or energy, your money. 69 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: Well, I always do say is this going to make 70 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 2: me happier? And that's how I made my decisions. So 71 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: with that, like anything that goes to relationships, anything that 72 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: deep into relationships or broadens relationships is likely to pay 73 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: off in terms of happiness. Anything that helps me learn 74 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: or grow that you know, the atmosphere of growth is 75 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: so important for happiness. So anything like that is something 76 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: that I would be inclined to do, something where I 77 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: feel like, maybe it's the fantasy self, it's like my 78 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: idea of the kind of person I'd like to be. 79 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: I watch out for that. That's a big warning sign 80 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: for me. My big, my big personal commandment is to 81 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: be Gretchen. And then sometimes I'm like, that just feels 82 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: like me kind of wanting to do something that would 83 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: be a good idea if I were a different kind 84 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: of person, Like by Linen Cocktail napkins because they're on sale. 85 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: What am I thinking? There is no that is not 86 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: Gretchen Linen cocktail napkins, that would not be, that would 87 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: not That's not something to spend my time, money or 88 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: energy on. 89 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: I love your twelve personal commandments. I got to say, 90 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: can you can you talk about some of the other 91 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: ones that I guess that you apply in your life? 92 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: My stuff in well, one of them comes from my father. 93 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: That's enjoy the process. And this is really helpful because 94 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: you know sometimes in life, and this goes back to 95 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: decision making that you were talking about. You know, sometimes 96 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: we can decide to do something that we really do 97 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: not want to do at the time, maybe for years, 98 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: but then we think, oh, there's going to be this 99 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: big payoff. So I've got to like put up with 100 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 2: all this badness in the in the in the process 101 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: because there'll be this payoff. So I don't like being 102 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: a lot lawyer, and I don't like being an associate 103 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: in law firm, but in seven years I'll be a 104 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: partner and that'll be great. Or I don't enjoy writing 105 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 2: this book, but one day it'll be a bestseller and 106 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 2: then it'll all be worth it. The problem with you 107 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: when you don't enjoy the process is that a lot 108 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: of times things don't work out the way we wish 109 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: they did. We're not in control of outcomes. We can 110 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: we can focus on process, but we can't. We can't 111 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 2: control the outcome. And if you enjoy the process, then 112 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: the disappointment if things don't go your way is less. 113 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: So I wrote a book called forty Ways look at JFK. 114 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: I loved writing that book, and it flopped. It flopped 115 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: so hard. It didn't reach an audience, didn't reach its audience. 116 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: That's what they tell you when your books it fails. 117 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: But I loved writing that book, and you know, I'm 118 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: sad that it didn't find its audience. But I don't 119 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: regret it because I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the process 120 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: so much. But if somebody had said, oh, you should 121 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: write a book about X Y Z, and I had 122 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: had no interest in it, and I had just forced 123 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: myself to do it, thinking like, well, there would be 124 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: a big payoff in the end. So if you can 125 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: enjoy the process, then I always just remind myself and 126 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: also just remind myself like I enjoy the process, Like okay, 127 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 2: maybe today I don't feel like writing this part, but 128 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: I love writing, like as my sister's a TV writer. 129 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 2: She has a big sign in her office that says 130 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: it's a fun job and I enjoy it to remind 131 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: herself that she picked TV writing, this is what she wants, 132 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: and then I think. One of the most thought provoking 133 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: happiness project resolutions for me has been to imitate a 134 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 2: spiritual master. One of my spiritual masters is Saint Trez 135 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: of Lziu, which I'm not even Catholic, but I am 136 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: like obsessed with her book Story of a Soul, and 137 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: in there, Saint Terrez says that when one loves, one 138 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: does not calculate. And so one of my personal resolutions 139 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: is no calculation, because I can be a bean counter, like, well, 140 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: if I did this for you, husband, then you should 141 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 2: do this for me. And you took a nap yesterday, 142 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 2: so it's my turn today, you know, and that's just 143 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: not good. You should just give and not calculate. So 144 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,679 Speaker 2: no calculation comes from Saint Teres. 145 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: Thank you sorry much for liceing. And if this is 146 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: maybe your first time listening to how I work, you 147 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: might want to hit subscribe or follow wherever you're listening 148 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: to this podcast from because on Thursday, I've got someone 149 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: that I've been trying to get on the show for 150 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: the better part of a year, Phil Libbon, who co 151 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: founded ever Note, one of the world's, if not the world's, 152 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: most popular note taking software. And I've been a fan 153 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: of Phil's and ever notes for so so long, and 154 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: I highly recommend tuning in on Thursday to hear that episode. 155 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support 156 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: from Dead Set Studios, and thank you to Martin Nimba 157 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: who does the audio mix for every episode and makes 158 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: everything sound better than it would have otherwise. See you 159 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: next time.