1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Just a warning. This podcast discusses sexual harassment and sexual assault. 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: Hello Billy, Hi, good, thank you? How are you very good? 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: Thank you? Sorry, it's taken a couple of minutes. We 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: were just fine place to pass the car. 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: From the Daily Os. I'm Billy fit Simon's and this 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: is no silly questions. This is the podcast where we 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: break down the big issues for young people in the 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: lead up to the federal election. 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 3: Mister Britney Higgins, I. 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 4: Was raped inside Parliament House by a colleague and for 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 4: so long it felt like the people around me only 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 4: cared because of where it happened and what it might 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 4: mean for them. 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: Last year, Britney Higgins, a former staffer, alleged she had 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: been sexually assaulted in a minister's office. It created a 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: political firestorm. 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 5: Jenny and I spoke last night and she said to me, 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 5: you have to think about this as a father first. 19 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 5: What would you want to happen if it were our girls. 20 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: Britney higgins allegation rallied women across the country, both inside 21 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: and outside the walls of Parliament. 22 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 5: Jenny has a way of clarifying things, always has. 23 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Rachelle Miller, a former media advisor, alleged she had been 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: in a secret and at times abusive relationship with cabinet 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: Minister Alan Todge. The bullying, intimidation, harassment I experienced from 26 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: him at. 27 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 6: Work completely destroyed all of the confidence I had in 28 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 6: my ability. 29 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: Julia Banks, a former Liberal MP, alleged she had been 30 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: sexually harassed by a cabinet minister. 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 7: A cabinet minister said on my right, and he sort 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 7: of did that sort of flip and how are you, 33 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 7: and then put his hand on my knee and ran 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 7: it up my leg, on the upper part of my leg, 35 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 7: and then walked away. 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: Daniel Mani, a former staffer, alleged she was indecently assaulted 37 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: in her own home by a male colleague. 38 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 3: I was told that it was my fault. 39 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 7: I was also told simply that it just wasn't true 40 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 7: and I was making it up. 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: Those are just some of the allegations that came out 42 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: over the past year. Women who had worked in politics, 43 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: from staffers to MP's sharing experiences of harassment, assault, bullying, intimidation. 44 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: The list of allegations goes on. There was even a 45 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: Facebook page made for former and current Labour staffers to 46 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: share stories of sexual harassment. Allegations against colleagues today, I 47 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: want to look at what is being done to change 48 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: the culture. 49 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was first elected in nineteen ninety eight, have 50 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: been around for a while and absolutely, like pretty much 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: every Australian woman, I've seen sexism in the workplace. 52 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: I spoke to Tania Plivsac, who is from the Labor Party, 53 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: so she's in opposition and she's been in Parliament for. 54 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: Years, so Parliament's not unique. It's like any other workplace. 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: There's sexism, there's sexual harassment, and as we heard from 56 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: Britney Higgins, there's also really serious allegations that there's even 57 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: sexual assault. 58 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: Tanya Pivasak is adamant though, that the culture has improved 59 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: since you first started. 60 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: When I first arrived, you know, if there'd be two 61 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: or three women sort of talking to each other in 62 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: the hallway and a bloke couldn't walk past without making 63 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: a joke about it, all, I see the ladies are 64 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: taking over the place. I don't feel like it's unusual 65 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: now to be a woman in the House of Representatives 66 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: or in the Senate or in a senior staff position. 67 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,279 Speaker 2: That has become much more commonplace than when I first 68 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: at it. But is it perfect? Not by a long shot. 69 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: So what do things look like from the other side 70 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: of politics. I spoke to Jane Hume from the government. 71 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: My name is Senator Jane Hume. I'm a Senator for Victoria. 72 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: So she's from the Liberal Party, the party currently in government. 73 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: She's also the Minister for Women's Economic Security. Like Tanya Plibosek, 74 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: she was hesitant to say that the culture in politics 75 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: is worse than in other workplaces. 76 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 3: I used to work in investment banking and funds management 77 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 3: before I enter Parliament, and I actually found that that 78 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 3: was a far more oppressively gendered workplace than Parliament was. Admittedly, 79 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: though that was maybe a decade or so ago. Old 80 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: habits die hard, and so there has been a big 81 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 3: shift that's happened, and some people have had to be dragged, 82 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: kicking and screaming along in that process. But for the 83 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 3: most part, I think people have been really willing to 84 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 3: accept and embrace the changes that they are expected in 85 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: a modern workplace. 86 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 5: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm joined by the women, the Minister 87 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 5: Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Finance to release the 88 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 5: Jenkins Review. 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: Last year, a review was conducted. It was led by 90 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins, and it looked into the 91 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: culture in Parliament House. 92 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 5: I want to thank Kate and Jenkins and all of 93 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 5: her team not just for undertaking this review but the 94 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 5: incrediblely professional and sensitive manner in which they undertook this review. 95 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: It found one in three people in Parliament had experienced 96 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: sexual harassment. This is the same number that Kate Jenkins 97 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: found when she conducted a nationwide review on all workers 98 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: in Australia. So while Jane Hume and Tanya Plipersek are 99 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: correct when they say Parliament sadly is on par with 100 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: other workplaces, there is one crucial difference. They don't have 101 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: an HR department. That's because parliamentary staffers are employed by 102 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: individual MPs and that was one of the problems raised 103 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: by the Jenkins Review when it made twenty eight recommendations 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: for culture change in Parliament. Here's what Senator Hume said 105 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: about where the government is up to with implementing. 106 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: Those the moment that the allegations came to light from 107 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: his Higgins. One of its recommendations was to establish an 108 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 3: independent and entirely confidential counseling service somewhere that you could 109 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 3: go to if you had a complaint that could handle 110 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 3: that can complaint that could make sure that it was 111 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: dealt within a in a I don't want to use 112 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: the word victim, it's the wrong phrase, but a victim 113 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: centric approach, in a victim centric way, and make sure 114 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 3: that your complaint was dealt with appropriately, whether it needed 115 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 3: the law, whether it needed consultation with an employer, or 116 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: whether it just required counseling. You know, I think that's 117 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: probably one of the most important recommendations that has changed, 118 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 3: and now we all know where to go to with, 119 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 3: you know, up on pin boards within each one of 120 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 3: the officers, there's the number that you can call if 121 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: you want assistance or if you're an employer that can 122 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,559 Speaker 3: see that something's happened in your office and you want 123 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: some advice as to how to go about dealing with that. 124 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: Now, needless to say that numbers on a pinboard don't 125 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: constitute an HR department. When I tried to look into 126 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: this further, it remained unclear, at least at the time 127 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: of recording this podcast, whether that specific recommendation had been 128 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: properly implemented. And that was just one of the twenty 129 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: eight recommendations Scott Morrison said the government would put in place. 130 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: Here's what Jane Hume said about where the task force 131 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: is up to with acting upon those recommendations. 132 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, my understanding is that those all of those recommendations 133 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 3: are either well under the way or already implemented. The 134 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: first thing that happened was there was a task force 135 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: that was put together. That was a cross party task force. 136 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 3: So it included people live the Minister of Finance I'm 137 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 3: in Birmingham and the Minister for Women Marie's Pain, but 138 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 3: it also included the Shadow Minister for Women, Tanya Plibasek. 139 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: It included the Shadow Minister of Finance Kadie Gallagher, it 140 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: included Larissa Waters from the Greens, Sozali Steggel from the 141 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: cross Bench, among others. 142 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: And so I just want to be clear on those recommendations. 143 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: Have they been implemented yet or do you have any 144 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: update for us on when they will be implemented. 145 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: Most already have been. I think that either that or 146 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 3: they're in the process of doing so. But again it's 147 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: really important to recognize that that has to be support 148 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 3: across the Parliament to have these things implemented, to have 149 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 3: each one of those recommendations implemented and that multi party 150 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 3: support for the review, which was called set the standard 151 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: was really it was possibly the most important pillar. The 152 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 3: most important recommendation was to establish that task force so 153 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: that everybody could continue to work towards the implementation of 154 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: all twenty eight of the recommendations in the report. So 155 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 3: it's a proper, a proper roadmap to drive those cultural 156 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 3: and practical changes that are necessary to make the workplace safer. 157 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: Now, while the existence of this new task force is promising, 158 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: many alleged victims of sexual assault in Parliament House aren't 159 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: holding their breath. This is Brittany Higgins talking to Frank 160 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: Kelly on Radio National Breakfast soon after the report was 161 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: passed down. 162 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 6: Brittany, it was your allegations of sexual assault in Parliament 163 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 6: House that rocked Parliament House and revealed to the rest 164 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 6: of the country a toxic and dangerous workplace culture. We've 165 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 6: got the investigation via the Sex Discrimination Commissioner. It makes 166 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 6: disturbing reading. Was it news to you any of the 167 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 6: revelations in the Genkins Report news to you that this 168 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 6: culture of sexual harassment and sexual assault and bulling is 169 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 6: so widespread? Or it think it's just a recognized reality 170 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 6: for any woman who spent time in that building. 171 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think it shocked anyone. It didn't 172 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 4: even shock the Prime Minister himself. It's been rampant in 173 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 4: that building obviously long before I was there, and I 174 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 4: assume it continues today until sort of these recommendations and 175 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 4: reforms are really put in place. I personally, as Grace said, 176 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 4: raised you know some of the structural reform ideas to 177 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 4: the Prime Minister in April when we met, and he 178 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 4: sort of rebuffed it with you know, it's your right 179 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 4: to ask, it's my right to consider. 180 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I don't think it's unique to any particular 181 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: political party. You know, there's been sexual harassment allegations in 182 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: the Liberal Party. In the Greens of course, you know 183 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: our staff have also complained about sexism in the workplace. 184 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: So what would the Labor Party do if they won 185 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: at the next election. Would they implement all twenty eight 186 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: recommendations of the Jenkins Review. 187 00:10:54,400 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: One yep, absolutely, and we're working. We're working on both 188 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: the recommendations for every workplace. We need to make sure 189 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 2: that one hundred percent of those implemented, and the government 190 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: has actually dropped the ball on that there's some really 191 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: important recommendations that they're not going to proceed with. Like 192 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: I know it's starting to get technical now, but a 193 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 2: positive duty on employers to provide a safe workplace. There 194 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: should be a presumption that if you're at work, you're 195 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: not going to be sexually harassed. That should be the 196 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: employer's responsibility. Kate Jenkins recommended that there should be a 197 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: positive duty of care for employers to provide a safe workplace. 198 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: The government's turned its back on that recommendation. Labor would 199 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: fully implement that and when it comes to Parliament House 200 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: as a workplace, the process that we're going through now 201 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: to make sure that every employer in Parliament House, so 202 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: the parliamentarians themselves know that they have a responsibility to 203 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: make sure that their office environment is safe and inclusive 204 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: for everyone who's working there. We need to make sure 205 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: that that happens. 206 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's look at what we've heard in this episode. 207 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: The past year has seen a slew of women from 208 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: politics share their stories of mistreatment. The allegations range from 209 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: bullying to sexual assault, and this isn't an issue that 210 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: is specific to one party. There is a task force 211 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: set up to implement the twenty eight recommendations of the 212 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: Jenkins Review, which was a highly detailed report that had 213 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: damning findings about the culture in Parliament. Both sides have 214 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: committed to implementing those recommendations, but the details of which 215 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: ones have been enacted and which haven't aren't exactly clear. 216 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to no silly questions, 217 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: and if you've enjoyed this episode, we're love if you 218 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: could leave us a five star review on Spotify or Apple. 219 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: The Daily Os is a small independent media company and 220 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: it's the best way you can help us grow. We'll 221 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: see you on Thursday.