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Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: the fourth of December. I'm Sam, I'm Billy. Earlier this week,

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Speaker 2: Australian authorities seized two point three four tons of cocaine

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Speaker 2: from a fishing boat off Queensland's coast, in what was

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Speaker 2: the largest cocaine seizure in Australian history. Police told us

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Speaker 2: that the hall has a street value of about seven

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty million dollars. Following the operation, called Operation

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Speaker 2: Tyran Door, police charged thirteen people, including two under eighteens

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Speaker 2: and one in a leadership position of an outlaw BIKI club,

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Speaker 2: with conspiring to import drugs. I found guilty. They're going

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Speaker 2: to face a maximum sentence of life in prison. In

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Speaker 2: today's podcast, we're going to chat to AFP Commander Stephen

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Speaker 2: Jay who led that operation.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into your interview with Commander Stephen J,

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Speaker 1: do you want to first just give us a sense

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Speaker 1: of the state of cocaine use in Australia at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and not only how many Australians are consuming cocaine, but

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Speaker 1: also it just feels like there have been quite a

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Speaker 1: few major police operations in the last twelve months from

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Speaker 1: police when it comes to cocaine.

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Speaker 2: It definitely feels like we've used the phrase record hall

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Speaker 2: quite a few times. And whether that's talking about international

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Speaker 2: cocaine siezures or domestic cocaine sizes, there's definitely been a trend.

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Speaker 2: And I asked the commander about this trend.

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Speaker 1: It seems clear that there's a real worldwide crackdown on

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Speaker 1: cocaine use.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and interestingly, when I was doing the research for

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Speaker 2: the interview, there's also an increase in supply of cocaine,

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Speaker 2: so there's more cocaine being made out of cocaine hotspots

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Speaker 2: like South from Central America, so it's a higher volume game.

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Speaker 2: Now the sieges are going to be higher, the amounts

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Speaker 2: on the streets are going to be higher as well.

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Speaker 2: According to government data updated in February of this year,

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Speaker 2: four point five percent of Australians over fourteen, so we're

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Speaker 2: talking here about one million Australians have consumed cocaine in

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Speaker 2: the last twelve months.

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Speaker 1: Interesting that that's over fourteen, that's so young.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's kind of I think when they start

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Speaker 2: really diving into the research about population trends with drug use,

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Speaker 2: so that starts there, and that's up from about one

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Speaker 2: point three percent of the population in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 2: so it's kind of four x itself almost in twenty

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Speaker 2: five years. The average age of first use of cocaine

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Speaker 2: in Australia is now twenty four and that's risen a

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Speaker 2: little bit from twenty three and a half a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago. And of those who have used cocaine

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Speaker 2: in the past year, about fifteen percent of that group

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Speaker 2: are using it monthly or more often than monthly. Interestingly,

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Speaker 2: one in four users of cocaine within the last twelve

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Speaker 2: months said they'd been diagnosed or treated for a mental

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Speaker 2: health condition as well.

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Speaker 1: Interesting what else do we know about the population of

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Speaker 1: Australians who use coke?

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Speaker 2: More common drug used by men rather than by women,

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Speaker 2: but the percentage of women who use it is growing

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Speaker 2: rapidly and that gap is narrowing. If you live in

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Speaker 2: a wealthy metropolitan area, you're four times more likely to

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Speaker 2: have had cocaine within the last twelve months than somebody

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Speaker 2: in areas of socioeconomic disadvantage. There's also a marked increase

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Speaker 2: over the last twenty years in cocaine consumption in the

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Speaker 2: LGBTQIA plus community, with consumption rates about two point seven

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Speaker 2: times higher in that sector compared to the heterosexual population.

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Speaker 2: If we zoom out and look at all drugs, it's

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Speaker 2: now the second most common drug consumed by Australians behind marijuana. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And so you said earlier that Australian authorities had seized

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Speaker 1: two point three four tons of cocaine. I find it

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Speaker 1: hard to conceptualize or contextualize how much that actually is.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of young people know cocaine in

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Speaker 1: terms of bags, which is one gram. How many bags

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Speaker 1: are in two point three four tons of cocaine.

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Speaker 2: So it's two million, three hundred and twenty four thousand,

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Speaker 2: one gram bags of cocaine. That is an insane amount

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Speaker 2: of cocaine. It's the same weight as a car. And

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Speaker 2: I found that pretty helpful in trying to visualize how

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Speaker 2: much this is. And when you look at how much

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Speaker 2: cocaine Australians consume in a year, it's about four tons

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Speaker 2: according to federal authorities. So when you consider the two

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Speaker 2: point three to four ton seizure, that's over half of

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Speaker 2: the entire national annual consumption of cocaine in one seizure.

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Speaker 2: It's more than New South Wales alone, and New South

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Speaker 2: Wales alone is responsible for, you know, that kind of

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Speaker 2: fifty five percent of Australia's cocaine use. So that is

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Speaker 2: a massive dent into the supply of this drug coming

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Speaker 2: into Australia.

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Speaker 1: And what can you tell me about the price? How

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Speaker 1: does a seizure like this impact the price of cocaine

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Speaker 1: on the street.

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Speaker 2: It's a really tricky question to answer and to draw

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Speaker 2: a link between. And I've asked the commander to kind

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Speaker 2: of explain this point more as well, but to give

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Speaker 2: you a sense of the numbers here, in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and nine twenty ten, a gram of cocaine, a bag

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Speaker 2: of cocaine cost about forty to seventy dollars in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Now it sits somewhere between two hundred and fifty to

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Speaker 2: four hundred dollars, and we pay the highest for a

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Speaker 2: gram of cocaine out of any country in the world.

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Speaker 2: And I think the other interesting element here though, alongside price,

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Speaker 2: is what's actually in that bag of cocaine. And the

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Speaker 2: federal criminal authorities say that they've seen a decrease in

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Speaker 2: the purity of cocaine since about twenty eighteen. So on

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Speaker 2: the graph, there's an interesting increase in the purity of

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Speaker 2: cocaine in kind of two thousand and five to twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Now it's dipping. And some data that's emerged from the

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Speaker 2: act's pill testing in recent years shows that as much

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Speaker 2: as forty percent of cocaine in Australia is not actually cocaine.

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Speaker 2: And that was also something I wanted to talk to

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Speaker 2: the commander about, which is this idea of if we're

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Speaker 2: removing cocaine from the streets, but we know that consumption

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Speaker 2: doesn't change, then what are people actually consuming?

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Speaker 1: Great point, let's get to that chat.

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Speaker 2: Commander Stephen Jay, thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 2: on the Daily OS this morning.

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Speaker 3: My pleasure. Sam.

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Speaker 2: Can you give me a rundown of this week's seizure

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Speaker 2: and why it was so significant to the AFP.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. Well, as mentioned the investigation, Operation Tirandor was

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Speaker 3: a joint investigation involving the STRAIN through the Police, the

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Speaker 3: Queensland Police Services Australian Border Force, which commenced last month

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Speaker 3: as a result of information suggesting that the syndic was

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Speaker 3: planning to import multi time importation of cocaine into Australia

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Speaker 3: through the coast of Queensland. So the investigation progressed very

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Speaker 3: very quickly, leading to what occurred on Sunday afternoon, which

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Speaker 3: was the seizure of two point three four tons of

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Speaker 3: cocaine on a small boat off the coast of Ghari

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Speaker 3: in Queensland and the rest of thirteen persons, including two juveniles.

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Speaker 3: So I understand the two point three or four tons

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Speaker 3: is the largest ever seizure of cocaine in our country

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Speaker 3: and obviously is quite significant that respect, we will allege

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Speaker 3: two of the individuals who were arrested senior members of

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Speaker 3: the Common Serio's outlaw motorcycle game. So this arrest and

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Speaker 3: the siege will have a significant impact, we believe in

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Speaker 3: not just the drug market Australia, but also I guess

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Speaker 3: the organized crimes framework in this country.

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Speaker 2: Were the Federal Police surprised with the quantity of drugs

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Speaker 2: on board that ship?

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Speaker 3: Look, we were very much working based on information available

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Speaker 3: to us that it was a multi time importation, so

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Speaker 3: I don't think we were necessary surprise when we found

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Speaker 3: that amount of drugs on the boat. What I would

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Speaker 3: say is obviously Australia is a very attractive market for

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Speaker 3: cartels and syndicates operating in South America to send drugs

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Speaker 3: such as cocaine into Australia. So there is a large,

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Speaker 3: unfortunately a large appetite for these drugs. So large sieges

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Speaker 3: like this are very unusual, but they're probably reflective of

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Speaker 3: the issues we have with drug consumption this country, and

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Speaker 3: particularly the appetites amongst some people to buy these drugs.

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Speaker 2: One thing I noticed as I was reading about this

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Speaker 2: operation is that it began in November. I mean by

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Speaker 2: you know, a look at a calendar that could be

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Speaker 2: potentially only a week ago or a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: Was that unusual for an operation that resulted in such

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Speaker 2: a sizeable seizure? And why did things kind of come

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Speaker 2: to you so quickly and then eventuate to its conclusion

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Speaker 2: so quickly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point, stam So yes, for us,

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Speaker 3: the investigation only commenced a month ago, so yes, it

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Speaker 3: is unusual and quick. What I would say, however, is

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Speaker 3: that the individuals the entity is involved in this kind

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Speaker 3: of offending, alleged defending, You don't just stumble into this

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Speaker 3: it's something that you have to make yourself available for.

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Speaker 3: So police forces and agencies around the country very well

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Speaker 3: versed in identifying people who may be involved in this

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Speaker 3: type of activity. So although the investigation only run for

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Speaker 3: a month, the reality is, you know, intelligence and information

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Speaker 3: and available to us suggestive that something was occurring. The

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Speaker 3: other point you make, which is a good one, is

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Speaker 3: that this is a significant undertaking. So we may have

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Speaker 3: only been physically investigating for a month, the reality is

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Speaker 3: and an activity like this, planning for a syndicate to

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Speaker 3: import this quantity of drugs in Australia may have taken

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Speaker 3: twelve to eighteen months, So we have come in late.

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Speaker 3: But a syndicate or a group of individuals looking to

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Speaker 3: do what these people have alledged really tried to do

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Speaker 3: this would have been a significant enterprice that may have

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Speaker 3: taken a very long time for them to pull together.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's fair to say we came at

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Speaker 3: the tail ends. But you know, the individuals who have

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Speaker 3: been arrested were known at us.

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Speaker 2: And that's something I've picked up in our comments section

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Speaker 2: when we've been reporting this story, is you know that

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the weight of a motor vehicle worth

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Speaker 2: of cocaine coming in. I mean that is a complex operation.

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Speaker 2: If you're moving a ton of bricks or a ton

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Speaker 2: of wood rather than a ton of illicit drugs.

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Speaker 3: That's a very good point and I think that also

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Speaker 3: goes to an issue which we've mentioned is not only

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Speaker 3: do drugs like this have a potentially catastrophic impact on

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Speaker 3: the Australian community, what this syndicate proposed to do is

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Speaker 3: highly risky. So it's risky to people who may be

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Speaker 3: on the may end up consuming these drugs. But the

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Speaker 3: individuals involved in this alleged offending have attempted to travel

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Speaker 3: four hundred and sixty comeras off the coast of Australia

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Speaker 3: to collect a large weight of drugs in what was

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Speaker 3: questionable weather conditions and have then proceeded back to the

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Speaker 3: proximity of Ghari where their vessels broken down.

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Speaker 2: So it's risky exactly. And that's been the angle actually

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Speaker 2: picked up by most of the international media is you know,

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Speaker 2: the headlines are reading ship breaks down as cocaine you

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Speaker 2: pick up, mission goes along. Did that break down in

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Speaker 2: the mechanical issues of the ship change the way that

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Speaker 2: your team approached the mission?

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Speaker 3: No, I mean it's fair to say they were. Obviously

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Speaker 3: the LEDs to Nikot were very surprised that their vessel

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Speaker 3: broke down, and we were as well. Neither We probably

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Speaker 3: were on common ground in that perspective. Neither of s

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Speaker 3: expected this will occurred. But fortunately for us, obviously we

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Speaker 3: were aware of what was going on and we were

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Speaker 3: able to We were able to in addict and water

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Speaker 3: police there and obviously arrested the elite defenders on the boat.

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Speaker 3: I think it's worth noting too that this syndicate had

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Speaker 3: previously attempted to pick up from the mother vessel on

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Speaker 3: another small boat and that had broken down. So actually

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Speaker 3: the syndicate had made two attempts to travel to the

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Speaker 3: mother vessel to collect the drugs. The first vessel didn't

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Speaker 3: get very fir and broke down. The second one got

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Speaker 3: out and got most of the way back and broke down.

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Speaker 3: So again it points to just how dangerous the type

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Speaker 3: of activity is and it's certainly not something we would

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Speaker 3: recommend for anyone to attempt to do.

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Speaker 2: And you said earlier in the week in the media

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Speaker 2: that that mother vessel is still in the ocean, right, Yeah, Look,

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Speaker 2: what I.

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Speaker 3: Would say is obviously the source of the cocaine, including

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Speaker 3: the mother vessel and location for which has come from.

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Speaker 3: It's still very much an active line of inquiry to us,

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Speaker 3: and obviously we're still progressing aspects of that. I can't

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Speaker 3: really speak much further on that at this stage.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to turn then to you know, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: before that this type of operation occurs and then you

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Speaker 2: hope that it takes drugs off the street, and especially

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Speaker 2: of that volume. I was doing a bit of research

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Speaker 2: before this, and you know that's the higher volume of

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Speaker 2: the consumption of everyone in New South Wales for a year,

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Speaker 2: so it's a sizeable amount of cocaine. How do you

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Speaker 2: guys then measure the effectiveness and the quantifiable results of

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Speaker 2: an operation like that in the say, twelve months to come.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's a good question, and to be frank,

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Speaker 3: there's not necessarily a lot of science around it, and

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Speaker 3: what we do for a fact is that it will

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Speaker 3: have a significant impact. There's a lot of people who've invested,

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Speaker 3: or we would presume quite rightly have invested a lot

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Speaker 3: of money, who are now out of pocket. So not

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Speaker 3: only as a big hole in Australia's cocaine market, or

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Speaker 3: anticipated cocaine market which will need to be filled. There

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Speaker 3: will be a lot of people in the criminal networks

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Speaker 3: who have lost a lot of money, so that will

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Speaker 3: have percussions across the wider network. What we do say is,

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Speaker 3: obviously we recognize there is this significant market for a

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Speaker 3: list of drugs in this country. We would hope that,

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Speaker 3: you know, this would provide opportunity for those who are

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Speaker 3: you know, who are impacted by drugs to reconsider and

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Speaker 3: to seek help. And we're aware that three people hospitalize

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Speaker 3: every day just with cocaine related other doses or injuries.

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Speaker 3: There is a perception about cocaine, but cocaine is a

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Speaker 3: serious drug that causes significant health issues and hopefully this

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Speaker 3: will have an impact and lead people who maybe caipitual

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Speaker 3: users to seek medical help and find a way to

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Speaker 3: deal with that.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing it might do, of course, is

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Speaker 2: naturally if there's less supply in the market, but you know,

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Speaker 2: increased or sustained demand, the price of cocaine could increase

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Speaker 2: in Australia. Do you hope that there's kind of a

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Speaker 2: tipping point that there's a price that the Australians are

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Speaker 2: not willing to pay for cocaine at a really good point.

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Speaker 3: I think what we understand is Australian cocaine users pay

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Speaker 3: the highest amongst the highest price in the world for cocaine,

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Speaker 3: So Australian users are paying a lot of money. I

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Speaker 3: would hope absolutely that an impact. Obviously you're the size,

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Speaker 3: as you said, such a massive siege, you will drive

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Speaker 3: the cost of cocaine for hivintally high and maybe that

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Speaker 3: will be an incentive for others to move away from

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Speaker 3: which is buy very NAT's extremely harmful. And the other

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Speaker 3: part I would say about drugs, it's not just the

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Speaker 3: health issues on the users, but the whole microcosm or

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Speaker 3: ecosystem of crime and criminality that goes around drug use.

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Speaker 3: We're drug sale, drug distribution across the country. So it's

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Speaker 3: not just the impact on the user, it's the ecosystem

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Speaker 3: of crime and organized crime that sustains it, supports it,

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Speaker 3: and profits off it. And ultimately that's what police and

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Speaker 3: la enforcement agencies are about dealing with.

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Speaker 2: Stephen. I've just got two more questions for you, and

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Speaker 2: they relate particularly to questions I think I know our

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Speaker 2: audience of young Aussies are thinking. So if we know

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Speaker 2: that there is such a substantive withdrawal of cocaine from

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Speaker 2: the Australian market. But we still feel like we know

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Speaker 2: people around us who are partaking in illicit drug use.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel about the risk then that that's

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Speaker 2: not cocaine. What more discussions do we need to be

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Speaker 2: having about the fact that if the real products didn't

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Speaker 2: make it, and the sales of cocaine remains the same,

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Speaker 2: that's actually something totally different.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree. I mean, the reality is that drugs,

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Speaker 3: drugs are adulterated and you don't know what you're using,

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Speaker 3: whether it's cocaine, whether it's a methan fetter, mean, whether

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Speaker 3: it's a exstasy or others. You actually don't know what

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Speaker 3: you're consuming. And I think the removal of this seasure cocaine,

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Speaker 3: it will impact the cocaine market. There may be other

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Speaker 3: drugs that take the place or purport to take the place.

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Speaker 3: That's something I guess, and it's a health issue of

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Speaker 3: public health issues as well, that drugs by their nature

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Speaker 3: listed drugs, by they're very nature, are not safe to

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Speaker 3: use and you don't know what you're consuming. And ultimately

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Speaker 3: one part of his law enforcement, the other part is

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Speaker 3: health and public knowledge around the risk of taking illicted

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Speaker 3: drugs and when you take something what impact it may

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Speaker 3: have on your health. So law enforcement is one part

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Speaker 3: of the answer. It's not the whole answer, it can't be.

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Speaker 3: It is also a public health discussion and you know,

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Speaker 3: with your young viewers and listeners, I guess are making

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Speaker 3: informed decisions if you do use I listed drugs what

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Speaker 3: you're actually consuming because it may not be what you're

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Speaker 3: actually thinking.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a view on pill testing then and

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Speaker 2: cocaine testing?

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Speaker 3: Look, I don't really to be honest. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: obviously a matter of debate across the various states and

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Speaker 3: territories across the country, and you know these discussions are

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Speaker 3: very worthwhile discussions to occur, but I personally don't have

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Speaker 3: a view on it one way or the other. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: my role from a policing perspective is to limit the

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Speaker 3: supply of the drugs in the Australia market and that's

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Speaker 3: what we do. But ultimately a policing and law enforcement

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Speaker 3: is one part of the answer. Issues like that are

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Speaker 3: part of a wider discussion that gets around how to

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Speaker 3: deal with this issue in our society.

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Speaker 2: Commanded Stephen Jay I've just got one last question in

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Speaker 2: full transparency. When I said to our team here at

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Speaker 2: the Daily Odds that I was chatting to you and

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Speaker 2: if there was anything that they would like to ask.

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Speaker 2: There was one question that came up amongst quite a

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Speaker 2: few of them, which is what do you do with

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Speaker 2: the two point three tons of cocaine?

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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, it's a good question, and obviously the media

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Speaker 3: reference the fact that on the street the cocaine may

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Speaker 3: have been worth seven hundred fifty million dollars. The reality

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Speaker 3: is that it as it currently stands, it's worth nothing

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Speaker 3: because it's in our custt It will be destroyed. Suffice

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Speaker 3: to say, a large amount of drugs like that is destroyed.

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Speaker 3: Obviously I can't explain how and where it is destroyed,

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Speaker 3: but it will be safefully destroyed in an environment where

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Speaker 3: it won't cause any harm of the community. So that

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Speaker 3: does occur. It's a significant logistical process and given the

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Speaker 3: nature of it, obviously I can't go into great details,

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Speaker 3: but rest assured it will be destroyed in a safe environment.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Jay, I really appreciate your time and thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for joining us this morning.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate it. Thanks very much for the.

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Speaker 1: Opportunity such a fascinating chat that paints a really clear

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Speaker 1: picture of cocaine news in Australia and what authorities are

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Speaker 1: doing to crack down on it. Thank you, Sam, and

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening to this episode of

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Speaker 1: The Daily Oz. We will be back this afternoon with

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Speaker 1: your afternoon headlines. Until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Dunda

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Speaker 2: Bungelung carcutting woman from Gadigal Country.

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Speaker 1: The Daily acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the

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Speaker 1: lands of the Gadigal people and pays respect to all

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our respects

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Speaker 1: to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.