1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,280 Speaker 1: Hello, it's Amantha here. 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 2: How I Work is on a little mini break, and 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: so today I am bringing you one of my favorite 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 2: How I Work episodes that I've recorded over the last year. 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: After years of consulting with some of the smartest people 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 2: in business and conducting countless interviews with incredible people for 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: How I Work, one things become very clear. The very 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: best performers are absolutely prolific, and Matthew Dix is no exception. 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 2: Alongside his book story Worthy, which is already my favorite 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: book that I've ever read about storytelling, Matt's written six 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 2: best selling novels, two nonfiction books, a rock opera, and 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: a couple of musicals. 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: And that's not to mention the. 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: Daily blog he's been posting too since two thousand and five, 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: and his magazine columns, his various coaching roles, or his 16 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: position as an elementary school teacher. So when Matt explains 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: how stories work and why we tell them, he's done 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: his homework. So what has Matt learned about stories by 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 2: publishing a mountain of his own, not to mention performing 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: a lot of them? And how can it help you 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 2: improve your own storytelling? Chops, My name is doctor Amanthe Immer. 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science 23 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work a show 24 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: about how to help you do your best work. Being 25 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 2: a great storyteller involves actually remembering lots of stories from 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: your life. 27 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: And I wanted to know Matt's. 28 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: Rituels for collecting and capturing stories that happen in his life. 29 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: Well, there's a bunch of them, but I mean the 30 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 3: one that I sort of focus my life on is 31 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: my idea of homework for life, which is sort of 32 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 3: the idea that as we move through our day, things 33 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: happen to all of us, you know, regardless of who 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 3: you are, regardless of how boring or ordinary you may 35 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 3: feel you are, things happen to us all the time 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: that are worth talking about, whether it's a five minute 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 3: story or a thirty second anecdote, or sometimes there's something 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 3: you want to remember for yourself, a story that you're 39 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 3: going to tell yourself for the rest of your life. 40 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 3: And the problem is is we leave all those memories 41 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 3: behind like they're meaningless. You know, I always play this 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 3: terrible game I can play with you right now. You 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: take your age and you subtract twelve. You don't have 44 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: to tell me what the number is. But for me, 45 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: I'm fifty subtract twelve, I'm thirty eight. And then I 46 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 3: ask people, tell me some stories from that year of 47 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 3: your life, and I watch them struggle to find, like 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 3: sometimes even a story from a year twelve years ago, 49 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: even though they went around the sun, and many, many, 50 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: many things happen that year that we're worth holding on to, 51 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 3: but we just discard them, and then we say stupid 52 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 3: things like time flies and time does not fly. Because 53 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 3: if you've ever like spent us much time and detention 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: as I have, or in meetings that you don't need 55 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: to be in that someone else feels you need to 56 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 3: be there, or I was jailed once in my life, 57 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: like if you sat in a jail cell, I can 58 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: tell you time does not fly. The only reason we 59 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 3: feel it flies is because we don't do anything to 60 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 3: hold on to the things that would mark that time. 61 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: So homework for life is the idea at the end 62 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: of the day, you just ask yourself what happened today 63 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: that made today different than the last day? Or really, 64 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: the prompt I always think is someone has kidnapped my 65 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 3: family and they won't give them back until I tell 66 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 3: a story about something that happened today. Even if the 67 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: story I ultimately tell is meaningless and boring, I got 68 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 3: to pick the thing from my day that makes it special, 69 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: and then I write it down. I don't write the 70 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: whole story down, because that's crazy. I just use an 71 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: Excel spreadsheet. There's a date column and then that B column. 72 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 3: I stretch it across the screen and it's on that 73 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: screen that I write my story. And my goal was 74 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: one story per month, one new story per month, out 75 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: of all the things I was collecting. But ultimately what 76 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 3: happens is I discover, and not just meet thousands of 77 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 3: people all over the world, discover that our lives are 78 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 3: filled with stories, things worth talking about once we start 79 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: noting them and recording them and speaking about them to 80 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 3: the world. 81 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: Do you have any other prompts that you use when 82 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: you're really struggling, Because I like, since since reading story Worthy, 83 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 2: your absolutely brilliant book, best book I've read on storytelling, 84 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: I must say, which is why I was so excited 85 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 2: to have you. 86 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: On the show. 87 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: I've started doing the homework for life, and sometimes I 88 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,119 Speaker 2: don't know, I feel that judgmental part of my brain 89 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 2: kicking in and going that's not story worthy. 90 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: So what do I do about that? What do you 91 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: do about that? 92 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: Well, the first thing you do is you accept the 93 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: fact that not everything is going to be story worthy. 94 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 3: So someone once asked me, can you tell me what 95 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 3: percentage of the items that you write down end up 96 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: being something that you would speak from, you know, speak 97 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: about on a stage or even just to other people. 98 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: And it ends up being about ten percent. So ten 99 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: percent of the things I write down now I write 100 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 3: down probably an average of about five things a day, 101 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 3: which you can too once you start doing this, but 102 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: ten percent is worth speaking about at some point. So 103 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: no judgment. You have to let the judgment go. But 104 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 3: the other thing that I think people mistake, and this 105 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: is the mistake I made when I started doing it. 106 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: We're looking not for stories, but for moments of meaning 107 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: in our day. So that can be someone said something 108 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 3: to you that you thought was clever or hurtful, or 109 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: funny or unforgettable, or it could just be a thought 110 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: you had. You know, there was a day when I 111 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 3: was driving down the road and it was the bluest 112 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 3: of blue skies that I had seen in a very 113 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 3: long time, and I thought to myself, it's really great 114 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: the sky is blue, because like I know, on some 115 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: planets it's like orange. You know, Thank goodness, we got blue. 116 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 3: So I was like, you know, fifty years old and 117 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: finally feeling grateful for the color of the sky. That 118 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: made it into my homework for life. Absolutely not a 119 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 3: story I'm ever going to tell, you know, except I'm 120 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: going to always remember the ode and the color of 121 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 3: the sky and that thought that passed through my mind. 122 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: So it can just be thoughts and dialogue that you hear, 123 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: and new ideas you have and feelings you have on 124 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 3: things you do. You know, things you touch, things you taste, 125 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: things you say yourself, and then those really profound moments 126 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 3: of realization which occasionally come around. You know, for me, 127 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 3: about ten percent of the time, I go, wow, that's 128 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 3: something that will be told as a story someday. 129 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: I think in my world, when I'm thinking about stories, 130 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: I'm often thinking in the context of a meeting or 131 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: a presentation or some kind of scenario where I'm trying 132 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: to influence people towards an idea or a strategy, and 133 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: so in my mind I'll be like, I need a 134 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: story that makes this point so I'm wondering in. 135 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: How you categorize your stories. 136 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: Do you tag things according to themes so that you 137 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,799 Speaker 2: can find the right story for the right moment. 138 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 3: I don't tag them like you say, but I think 139 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 3: it's just because I sort of have a familiarity with 140 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 3: what I'm telling. And you know, one of the things 141 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: I can really help people do is find ways that 142 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: stories can be used to communicate ideas. I really am 143 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 3: excellent at hearing someone tell a story, and depending on 144 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: what they do for business, I can say, oh, well, 145 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: you could use it here in marketing, and you could 146 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 3: use it here in sales, and we could use it 147 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: here in human resources. And that is a leap that 148 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: a lot of people have a hard time making. I 149 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: always tell people we're not looking for content matches. We're 150 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 3: not looking for like your life story to on a 151 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: content level match what you want to talk about in 152 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: the business. What we're looking for is matches of theme, 153 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 3: matches of message, you know, those kinds of things. And 154 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: the further a part those things can be, almost the 155 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: better it is. You know. It's when someone's telling you 156 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: a story and you're wondering, why is he telling me 157 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 3: this story? It's a good story entertaining, but what's the point? 158 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 3: And when they get to the end and they show 159 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: you what the point was, and it was something you 160 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 3: never expected, and yet it's so clear now at the 161 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: end what they were trying to say. That is a 162 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 3: powerful snap. I call it, you know, I call it 163 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 3: speaking with adjacency, which is I'm going to talk about 164 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 3: the thing I want to talk about, but I'm going 165 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: to do it in an oblique way that you're not 166 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: going to see until the very end, and when it lands, 167 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: it lands powerfully. So we can't be thinking about I'm 168 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: trying to sell strawberries, so I need to have a 169 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 3: story about strawberries or fruit, right, we need to have 170 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 3: a different kind of story. So if we're selling strawberries 171 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: and they're so evocative of our youth and the strawberries 172 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 3: that we used to eat as kids, then we want 173 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 3: to have a story that contains you know, youthfulness and 174 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 3: innocence and child like you know, wonder and things like that. 175 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 3: So we don't have to talk about fruit at all, 176 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 3: but we can bring it back to fruit at the end. 177 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: And so when someone is sharing a story with you 178 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 2: and you're identifying all these different opportunities for that story. 179 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: What's the process that's going through your brain when you're 180 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 2: kind of analyzing the story content and thinking about it's 181 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: different opportunities for being applied. 182 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 3: I'm always asking myself what are they saying beyond the content, Like, 183 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 3: what's the you know, what is the overarching if we 184 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: remove all the content away, what were they really trying 185 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 3: to say? You know, fundamentally, a story tends to be 186 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: about change over time, So what is the change over 187 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: time that they're trying to describe? You know, this is 188 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 3: a story I tell to my kids all the time 189 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 3: that I recently sort of explained this. Well, when I 190 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: was in kindergarten, a boy named John Fox disappeared during 191 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: indoor recess. Like the recess ended, everyone came back to 192 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: their seats and John was not in his seat. And 193 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 3: you know, the teacher was like, well, maybe he's in 194 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 3: the other classroom, the other kindergarten classroom. So she went 195 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 3: next door, missus Dubac could not find John. There, she 196 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 3: called the principal. Back then, when you had to like 197 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 3: press a button and talk on an intercom, everyone heard 198 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 3: the conversation. So, you know, I heard her going, mister Hartnett. 199 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: We can't see him. To find John Fox, maybe you 200 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 3: could make an announcement. They made an announcement in the school. 201 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 3: I could see the level of stress rising as they 202 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 3: couldn't find this boy. I saw the custodian outside sort 203 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: of wandering around the playground looking for him. And then 204 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: we heard a scream, and it was a girl named 205 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 3: Kim who had opened the bathroom door to the girl's 206 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: bathroom and found John Fox in the girl's bathroom. What 207 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 3: he had done is he had gone into the girl's 208 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: bathroom by accident, realized he was in the girl's bathroom 209 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: and could not get himself out because he felt foolish 210 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 3: and he was afraid he was going to get in trouble. 211 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 3: So even though he could hear himself being called on 212 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 3: the intercom, he couldn't get out of the bathroom. So 213 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: I tell that story to a bunch of teachers recently, 214 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 3: and then I say to them, when children and especially 215 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 3: boys get angry and they shouted us, or they slammed something, 216 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 3: or they put their head down or they charge out 217 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 3: of her room, what they've really done is put themselves 218 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: in the bathroom. They've put themselves in the bathroom, and 219 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 3: they trapped themselves there because to get out of it, 220 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: they can't walk back in and say sorry, because that's 221 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 3: a threat to their ego and they're just not old 222 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 3: enough to deal with that. And we can't win a 223 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: power struggle with him. We can't say, like, pick your 224 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: head up, you're gonna pick your head up, and you're 225 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: gonna listen to me right now. You're never gonna win. 226 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 3: So as teachers, we have to find ways to get 227 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: kids out of the bathroom after they put themselves in. 228 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: So I just recently had this boy. He got mad 229 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: at me. I said, close your laptop. He threw his 230 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: headphones down. He slammed his computer and he put his 231 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 3: head down, and I knew he was now stuck in 232 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: the bathroom, just like John Fox. And so I gave 233 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 3: him a little bit of time, and then I walked 234 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 3: over to him and I said, listen, I know I'm 235 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: really boring and I'm putting you asleep, but I need 236 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 3: you to pick up your head eventually, because you can't 237 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 3: sleep in class. And then he looked up and he 238 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: smiled and he said, you are boring. And I was asleep, 239 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 3: and I said, I know, but I need you to 240 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: be awake now, and I walked on. I got him 241 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: out of the bathroom, right So that is a story 242 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 3: now where teachers use that phrase, they say, oh, well, 243 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 3: I got a kid in the bathroom right now, I 244 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 3: got to figure out a way to get him out 245 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 3: of the bathroom. As I'm telling the John Fox story, though, 246 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: they have no idea what I'm talking about, right. So, 247 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 3: what I'm always thinking about at the end of a 248 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 3: story is what was I really saying? And the John 249 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 3: Fox story I am saying. We get stuck in places 250 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: sometimes and we need help getting out right, So strip 251 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: away all the content and ask yourself what is the 252 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: story really about? And oftentimes once we strip the content away, 253 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 3: we can say it in a clear sort of feeling 254 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 3: or meaningful or insightful or realization kind of way. And 255 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 3: that's how those stories can be powerful for us. 256 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 2: Let's now break that down, like, what is your process 257 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: for crafting a story like the one that you just told. 258 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: Maybe let's start by firstly, how do you even know 259 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: if it's a story worth telling? If it's one of 260 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: those ten percents? 261 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: Well, a story in the end is about change over time. 262 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 3: The problem people have is they think that stories are 263 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 3: reports on their life. You know, in the worst version 264 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: of a story, someone's going to tell you happen to them, 265 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 3: but they're just going to be reporting on the events 266 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: chronologically rather than sort of crafting any meaning. So when 267 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 3: I'm looking at that ten percent, what I'm looking for 268 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 3: is moments in my life where I've fundamentally changed in 269 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: some way. You know, those changes are either transformational meaning 270 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 3: I used to be one kind of person and now 271 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 3: I'm another, or more often realizations. I used to think 272 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 3: something about myself or the world, or my wife or kids, 273 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 3: or the planet, and then some stuff happened, and now 274 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: I think differently. And you don't have to think very differently. 275 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 3: It can be a very small change. Small changes are beautiful. 276 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 3: People believe in small change, and so that's what a 277 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 3: story is. So when I'm looking for a story to tell, 278 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: I'm always starting at the end because I'm looking for 279 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 3: these moments where we suddenly shift, where we feel our 280 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: heart or our mind open, the hair on the back 281 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: of your neck stands up. You just get that feeling 282 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: of wow, I think differently than I did a moment ago. 283 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 3: Those are the stories that mean something to people, and 284 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 3: all you have to do is watch a movie, watch 285 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 3: a televison show, go to a play. All the great 286 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 3: stories of the world, all the stories really of the 287 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 3: world are about change over time, even the stupid movies. Ultimately, 288 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 3: we're starting with a character who has some flaw or 289 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: some need, or some problem, and by the end that flaw, need, 290 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: or problem will be solved to some degree. Maybe not 291 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 3: all the way, but you can watch a movie or 292 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 3: read a book and within the first fifteen minutes you 293 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 3: can tell what the end is going to be, not 294 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 3: with specificity, but you can look at it and go, oh, 295 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 3: this is a guy. He's divorced and he's not getting 296 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 3: along with his kids, and he hasn't figured that relationship 297 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 3: out yet, and at the end of the movie he's 298 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 3: going to have that relationship a little more figured out. Right, 299 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 3: we just know it very it's instantaneous if we really 300 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: put some thought into it. But oftentimes we're lost in 301 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: the story, which is a beautiful. 302 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: Thing too, which probably is a good segue into how 303 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: do you think about opening a story? 304 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: So once we find the end of that story, the 305 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: thing we're trying to say, the beginning of the story 306 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 3: is ultimately going to be the opposite of the end. 307 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 3: That's how we create that change over time. So you know, 308 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 3: if at the end of my story, I suddenly look 309 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: at my future wife for the first time and realize 310 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 3: I'm in love, the beginning of my story is going 311 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: to be I am not in love, right. That's the 312 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: arc of every romantic comedy. Two characters don't like each 313 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 3: other in the beginning of the story, and in the 314 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: end they fall in love. So once you find the 315 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: moment where suddenly you feel different or see the world differently, 316 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 3: you simply ask yourself, when was a moment in the 317 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 3: past when I didn't see the world differently or didn't 318 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: feel differently, And that's the place to begin. Now. Also, 319 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 3: start as close to the end as possible. That's a 320 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 3: really important thing too, because we don't want stories to 321 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: go on and on. The shortest version of every story 322 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: is the best version of every story. So when we 323 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 3: start closer to the end, the stories get shorter and 324 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: we sort of compact all of that humor, drama, suspense, 325 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: and surprise into a smaller space, and that just makes 326 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 3: stories feel more alive. So we want to do that 327 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 3: as well. That's not my lesson, that's Kurt Vonnegut, who 328 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 3: says start stories as close to the end as possible, 329 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 3: and I believe it fundamentally. 330 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: When you're mapping out a story or writing a story 331 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: that you're going to tell, and you're looking at it 332 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: and going, hmmm, this bit feels like I could lose them. 333 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: How do you deliberately increase the stakes? 334 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 3: Well, there's a few ways, the cheating way, or the 335 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 3: easiest ways, just to be funny. Sometimes there's something in 336 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 3: a story and it's just fundamentally boring, but I need 337 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: to say it. I need to explain to people how 338 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 3: this thing works, you know, or how this person spoke 339 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 3: to me, and it's not that interesting, So I can 340 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: find a way to raise the stakes, which really is 341 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: to say, I'm going to plant a steak in this moment. 342 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: I'm going to hold something back and then I'll finally 343 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 3: plant it in the boring place. But the easiest way 344 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 3: is just to make it funny. And if you're funny, 345 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 3: that's a simple cheat to get through a boring part. 346 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 3: You can't do it all the time, though I see 347 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 3: storytellers try to do it all the time. You know, well, 348 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 3: this story isn't very good, but I'm just gonna make 349 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 3: it funny, right, And you know, as I've done stand 350 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 3: up comedy too, and that's what I do and stand 351 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 3: up which is I'd better be funny all the time. 352 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 3: But when I'm listening to a story, I have no 353 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 3: desire to laugh all the way through. I really want 354 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 3: to feel more connected and you know, I want to 355 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 3: feel like I've gone through an emotional journey with that storyteller. 356 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 3: So if you're just trying to be funny the whole 357 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 3: way through, we're going to kind of see through that 358 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: and it's going to be I always think of it 359 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 3: as popcorn, like it's lovely, but we never remember it. 360 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 3: You can't remember like you don't remember popcorn. It goes 361 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 3: in and that's the end of it. You know. I 362 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 3: like stories where when I'm done speaking or when I'm 363 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 3: done hearing the story, I sort of can't let it go. 364 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: It's like stuck in me. And you know, I want 365 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: people to hear me tell a story about John Fox 366 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 3: in the girl's bathroom, and the next time they walk 367 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: by a girl's bathroom door, they go, ah, right, that 368 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 3: kid that was stuck in the girl's bathroom, Right, That's 369 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 3: what I'm looking for And you don't get that if 370 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 3: you make people laugh the whole. 371 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: Time, what is in otherwise that you use to up 372 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: the stikes? 373 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 3: Well, you know, especially in business, but also in storytelling world. 374 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 3: You know where storytellers operate so often the instinct, I 375 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: think it's fear really is to present all the good 376 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: stuff right off the bat. You know. I think it 377 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 3: tends to come from people who find a hard time 378 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 3: finding space to speak. And quite frankly, I think it's 379 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 3: something I don't encounter as often as other people because 380 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 3: I'm a white, straight American man who has no physical 381 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 3: disabilities or mental illness. So when I walk into a room, 382 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 3: I just assume everyone wants to listen to me because 383 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 3: of who I am, and I you know, I know 384 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: that if you're a woman, for example, there's a lot 385 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 3: of places where you have to fight to be heard. 386 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: Or if you're a you know, if you're a person 387 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 3: of color, or you're an immigrant, or you're English isn't 388 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 3: as excellent as you wish it was, or you have 389 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 3: a clear physical disability. These are people who have to 390 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 3: fight for space. And so I think what happens in 391 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: those cases and for all storytellers, is we tend to 392 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 3: think I got to throw all the good stuff in 393 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 3: the beginning so that people will pay attention to me. 394 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 3: But the problem with that is if you give us 395 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: all the good stuff in the first minute, there's nothing 396 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: left to offer us as we go on. So what 397 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 3: I always tell storytellers to do is to sort of 398 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 3: take an inventory of the stakes of your story. Where 399 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: are all the problems that you are facing. And some 400 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 3: of them are going to be chronological, like I'm not 401 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 3: going to face the mean guy until I get to 402 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 3: the store where I meet the main guy. Fine, but 403 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 3: your inability to deal with mean people, like your avoidance 404 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 3: of conflict, Like where are we going to plant that 405 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 3: idea so that when you meet the main guy in 406 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 3: the store, we feel it and we don't have to 407 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 3: put it all up front. And so often people plow 408 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 3: it all into the beginning in hopes of holding the 409 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 3: audience's attention. What I teach people to do is to 410 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 3: meter it out, find places where we can increase the stakes. 411 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 3: And the same thing in business. You know, I was 412 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 3: working with a biotech firm recently and they were showing 413 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: me their marketing plan and they were sort of outlining 414 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: all the problems that customers have and why their products 415 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 3: were the ideal solution to these problems. And they threw 416 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 3: every single problem in the first two slides, and I said, well, 417 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 3: that's really what you've done, is you've loaded all the 418 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 3: stakes into the first two sides, which is frankly not 419 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 3: very entertaining, and you've left yourself nowhere to go. And 420 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: the marketing the VP of marketing looked down and she goes, 421 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 3: we stakesload all the time. I think that is a problem. 422 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 3: Like it dawned on her that her first two slides 423 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 3: were sort of like enormous Debbie downers. And also she 424 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 3: didn't provide her team with any other moment to raise 425 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 3: the stakes in some way. So we if we avoid 426 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 3: that and we're just careful with the way we're going 427 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 3: to place our stakes, that's going to help us a lot. 428 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: We will be back soon with Matt explaining when it's 429 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: okay to lie when you're telling a story. 430 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: Oh and Matt also sat. 431 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: Me through putting together a story i'd been trying to construct. 432 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 433 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 2: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 434 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 435 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving 436 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for 437 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 2: that at Howiwork dot code That's how I Work dot co. 438 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 2: One of the chapters that surprised me in story Worthy 439 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: was about when it's okay to lie when you tell 440 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: a story, because I think prior to reading that in 441 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: your book, I just assumed that I had to tell 442 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 2: the truth and that I couldn't fabricate anything. 443 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: I couldn't, you know, condense or expand time for example. 444 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 2: But can you talk about where I guess, you know, 445 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: stretching or slightly altering the truth is actually in the 446 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 2: audience's best interest. 447 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'll say that we never add anything to 448 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 3: a story that didn't actually happen. Right, that's fiction, and 449 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 3: I write novels. I love writing fiction, but I that's 450 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 3: why I write fiction. It sticks in my books. So 451 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 3: when storytellers lie, what we're really doing is we're doing 452 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 3: it in service of the audience. So that means we're 453 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 3: often leaving things out that don't serve the story. Most commonly, 454 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 3: that is a person in your story that doesn't do 455 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 3: anything but happen to be there. At the moment. So 456 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 3: many of my friends, when they hear a story, they'll 457 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 3: say like, I was there, you didn't say me, And 458 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 3: I say, well, you didn't do anything right, And the 459 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: reason I take them out is because I don't want 460 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 3: the audience to have to keep track of a character 461 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,719 Speaker 3: who will ultimately be meaningless to the story. Audiences only 462 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 3: have so much bandwidth, right, Each person can only process 463 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 3: so much information at a time. So if I have 464 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: a Rando wandering around in my story, part of the 465 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 3: brain for the audience goes, well, what about that guy 466 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 3: in the back seat? Right, I don't want them wondering 467 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 3: about the guy in the back seat. Or I don't 468 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 3: want them worrying about you know, the other girl that 469 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 3: came to the party with us, where'd she go? Right? Well, 470 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 3: she's not actually in the story. She doesn't do anything. 471 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 3: She just present. So we remove things that are distractions 472 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 3: that suck the bandwidth away from our audiences, and then 473 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 3: we can do simple things like condensed time for the 474 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 3: sake of the audience. You know, I tell a story 475 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 3: about riding my bike off the barn roof to get 476 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 3: my mother's attention, and the truth of it is my 477 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 3: sister and I get the bike up on the roof 478 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 3: on Saturday, but I don't ride it off until Sunday 479 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 3: when my mom comes home. And so when my sister 480 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 3: hears the story, she says, you screwed up that story, 481 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 3: like you put it all on one day, you know, 482 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 3: And she said it took I said, I know, Kelly, 483 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 3: I know. We put it up on Saturday and then 484 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 3: took it down on Sunday. But nobody needs to hear 485 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 3: we got the bike up on the roof and then 486 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 3: I ate dinner, and then I went to bed, and 487 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,959 Speaker 3: then I woke up the next morning. Then I went 488 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 3: back on the roof and wrote it off. Nobody wants that. 489 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 3: So we can condense space. We can condense time only 490 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 3: when it serves the audience, when the audience will process 491 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 3: that story and appreciate the story in a more meaningful way. 492 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: So I'm never trying to deceive the audience. I'm never 493 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 3: exaggerating unless I'm exaggerating for humor, unless the audience knows 494 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 3: I'm exaggerating. I'm never ever adding anything in that didn't 495 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 3: really happen, but just making those choices about what to 496 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 3: leave out and what to make smaller and what to. 497 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 3: You know, push together can really be helpful in a story. 498 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: How do you go about eliciting emotion from an audience? 499 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 2: Because I'm imagining that in order for a story to 500 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 2: stick in someone's mind long after the event, it needs 501 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 2: to move them in some way. 502 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: How do you do that? 503 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 3: I guess there's a there's a few ways, you know, 504 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 3: two ways that are very easier. They're not easy, actually, 505 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 3: but two ways that are common. Will say. One is, 506 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: as I'm crafting a story, as I'm planning on it, 507 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 3: I always establish what I call goals, which is to say, 508 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 3: how do I want my audience to feel at every 509 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 3: moment in the story, And that is almost always how 510 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 3: I also felt at that moment in the story. I 511 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 3: want my story my audience to sort of be along 512 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 3: with me. There are times when I'm telling us story 513 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 3: where I'm a fool and I'm doing something stupid and 514 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 3: I don't mind the audience sort of being ahead of 515 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: me and recognizing my stupidity. But that is rare. Usually, 516 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 3: when I'm sad, I want the audience to feel sad, 517 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 3: And when I'm happy, I want the audience to feel 518 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 3: happy and everything in between. So just by deciding what 519 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 3: do I want the audience to feel at certain moments 520 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: will be enormously helpful, because most people don't do that. 521 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 3: They just report on their lives chronologically. Even if they're 522 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 3: actually telling a moment of change, they sort of don't 523 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 3: think about, well, well, I felt really upset at that moment, 524 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 3: how can I get my audience to be upset with 525 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 3: my boss? Also? Right? And really it comes down to 526 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 3: like characterization of the boss, which oftentimes means I'm going 527 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 3: to remove all the positive qualities from my boss and 528 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 3: only leave the negative ones in. Right, So again, remove 529 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 3: the things that don't serve the story, leave the things 530 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: in that do. The other thing is I think almost 531 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 3: all really meaningful emotional responses in storytelling come through surprise. 532 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 3: I think that ultimately, when an audience laughs, or when 533 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 3: they cry, or when they're outraged, I think it's because 534 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 3: they're surprised because something happened that they didn't know was 535 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: going to happen. Like laughter is really nothing but surprise. 536 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 3: I've collected words in a certain way, and I've said 537 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 3: them in a certain way that caused you to go, wow, 538 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 3: I've never seen that before. I shall laugh. Or the opposite, 539 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 3: which is I'm going to report something to you that's 540 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 3: going to be so surprising to you that it's going 541 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 3: to draw tears from you. So paying attention to surprise 542 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 3: in a story, which is really hard for people because 543 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 3: once you've been surprised, it's hard to remember being surprised, 544 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 3: and oftentimes the surprise is one of the most fun 545 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 3: parts of a story, so people often get to it 546 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 3: too quickly. They want to tell you the surprise so 547 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 3: badly that they spoil it by telling you too early 548 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 3: or by giving it away with too many clues earlier 549 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 3: on in the story. So you have to say to yourself, simply, 550 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 3: when was I surprised and what emotion did it produce? 551 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 3: And now how can I surprise my audience and produce 552 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 3: a similar mode obviously not the same that they are 553 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 3: not living your life, but sort of like a cousin 554 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 3: to the feeling that you had. So focusing on surprise 555 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 3: can be enormously powerful, and every story has at least 556 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 3: one surprise, because the end should always be surprising, because 557 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 3: the moment we change is surprising to us. The moment 558 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 3: we look at a tree and realize, we look at 559 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 3: a sky, we look at a blue sky and go 560 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 3: God I'm so happy the sky is blue. That's surprising 561 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 3: to me that it took me fifty years to look 562 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: up and suddenly feel gratitude. It's not a big surprise. 563 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 3: It's not a tear jerking or a laughing surprise, but 564 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 3: it is a surprise that that thought finally hit me. 565 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 3: That's at least the one surprise everybody has, which is 566 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 3: the realization or transformation that we feel and experience. 567 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 2: So, mad I was hoping to get your advice because 568 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: I've got a workshop coming up with my team on Friday, 569 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 2: and it's Tuesday today when we're recording this. 570 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 3: And. 571 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 2: I've been racking my brains for the right story to 572 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: open this workshop with. And I need a story that's 573 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 2: essentially about like not taking something for granted and sort 574 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 2: of you know, treating something with. 575 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: The care that it deserves. 576 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 2: And I've sort of been thinking about times in my 577 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 2: life where I've you know, taken something for granted that like, 578 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: I haven't spent a lot of time on it, but 579 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 2: it's in the bend in the back of my mind. 580 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 2: I've only got one example. It feels a bit lame, 581 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 2: and I wanted to, like, you know, if you can 582 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 2: pretend that you are coaching me through this. I would 583 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 2: love to know how I can get to a point 584 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 2: where I've actually got a story that then I can, 585 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 2: you know, start to craft. 586 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: So sure, well, what's your what do you have? What's 587 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 3: the thing that's kind of lame? 588 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 2: So the thing that feels kind of blame is when 589 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: I was in my twenties, I was living in Sydney 590 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: and I got a lease on this apartment in a 591 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 2: city apartment, and it had this amazing view of the 592 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 2: Sydney Harbor, which is kind of like the most beautiful 593 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: thing about Sydney. And I remember the first time I 594 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 2: walked through that apartment, I was struck by the view 595 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: and I just thought, oh wow, like, I will never 596 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: ever get sick of this view for the entire time 597 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 2: I live in this apartment. And then several months later, 598 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 2: and this is where my memory is fuzzy. I think 599 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: I had a party or something like that, and I 600 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 2: remember people standing on the balcony and just ewing an 601 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: hour ring over the view, you know, and it occurred 602 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 2: to me I'd broken that promise with myself. 603 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: I'd forgotten the beautiful view and that's kind of all 604 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: I've got And it's how do I work with that? 605 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: Or do I go I can do better than that, 606 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 2: because I feel like that's I don't. 607 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: Know, right, Well, let's play with that, you know, In 608 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 3: terms of finding other stories, I guess I'll say this, 609 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 3: it wouldn't be hard for me, and I don't think 610 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 3: it'll be hard for you to just look at things 611 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 3: in your life that you sometimes tink for granted. You know, 612 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: I would instantly think my son, my daughter, and my wife. 613 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 3: Any story about them will I can easily transform into 614 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 3: a I'm taking them for granted. Right. My job, I'm 615 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 3: sure I'm taking it for granted, And it's easy, be 616 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 3: easy to tell a story about teaching children and how 617 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 3: twenty four years ago I was desperate to get a 618 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 3: job in teaching, and today I actually complain about going 619 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 3: to work sometimes, right, even though it's the dream job 620 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 3: I wanted and still my dream job today. So I 621 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 3: would just sort of inventory things I take for granted 622 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 3: and then tell a story about that thing without really 623 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 3: even being worried too much about taking for granted, because 624 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 3: I can tell a story about my son that has 625 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 3: nothing to do with me taking him for granted. When 626 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 3: a story's done, I can say, can you believe that 627 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 3: I take that boy for granted sometimes that amazing story 628 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 3: that I just told you about my son that caused 629 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 3: you to love him and open your heart in mind? 630 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 3: Can you believe that there are sometimes when he wants 631 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 3: to play a game with me and I say no, 632 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: That is taking things for granted. So easy pivot from 633 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 3: almost any story, right, anything you care about, so simple story. 634 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 3: But you know what you gave me was interesting, because 635 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 3: that's not an easy thing. The Sydney apartment story, because 636 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 3: it's kind of boring, Like it's I bought an apartment 637 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 3: and then eventually I didn't appreciate it in the way 638 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 3: I should. But the way I might craft it to 639 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 3: make it a little less boring is again at the beginning. 640 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 3: We have to cause people to wonder. So I would 641 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 3: start the story doing something like this. I'm hosting a 642 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 3: party and I look out on the deck and everyone 643 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 3: is staring out at something, and I have no idea 644 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 3: what that something is. Like I have looked outside my 645 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 3: deck for the last three hundred and sixty eight days, 646 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 3: and as far as I can tell, there is nothing 647 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 3: to stare at. And yet for some reason, I've got 648 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 3: music playing in the room, and I've got things to 649 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: do in the room, and everyone's got their eyes outside, 650 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 3: and so I'm starting to wonder, like, is there a 651 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 3: whale in the harbor today that I've never like? You know, 652 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 3: it is as a boat sinking in the harbor right now, 653 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 3: right or has a comment crashed into the harbor that's 654 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 3: caused people to pay attention to whatever the hell they're 655 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 3: paying attention to. So I finally make my way outside 656 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 3: to the deck and I sidle up against one of 657 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 3: my friends and I look out at the harbor that 658 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 3: they can't stop staring at, and I ask my friend, like, 659 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 3: the hell are you staring at? And then I suddenly 660 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 3: know they're staring at the beauty of the harbor, which 661 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 3: a year ago I swore to myself. I swore to 662 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 3: myself that I would never take for granted because it 663 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 3: is one of the most beautiful views in the world. 664 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 3: But it turns out that if you stare at the 665 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 3: most beautiful view in the world for a year, it 666 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 3: stops being beautiful and just starts being a view, and 667 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 3: that is a tragedy. I would tell the story like that, 668 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 3: but do you see how rather than saying I rented 669 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 3: an apartment and you told it chronologically. Yeah, you've got 670 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 3: to give them something a wonder about. So the thing 671 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 3: to wonder about is why are people staring at a 672 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 3: view that I don't care about anymore? And the realization 673 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: is I was supposed to care about the view because 674 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 3: it is beautiful, and I've just forgotten to notice. 675 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: Now, you teach a lot of people all over the 676 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: world how to tell better stories, how to craft better stories. 677 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 2: What are some of the most common mistakes that you 678 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 2: see your students make or struggle through? 679 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 3: Well, people, It depends on the person, but a lot 680 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: of people, vulnerability is really hard for people. Right, they 681 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 3: can tell a story about the mean thing their mother 682 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 3: did to them. But if at the end they have 683 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 3: to say, I don't really know if my mother loves 684 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 3: me enough. Right, If that's the thing they have to 685 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 3: say at the end, that's hard for them to say. 686 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 3: So when I hear people tell stories, I've got this 687 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 3: ear for when they pass over the hard stuff. They 688 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 3: speak quickly, Suddenly all the details fly away, you know, 689 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 3: and they'll finish doubling this and I'll say, well, that 690 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 3: was great, but what about that moment in the hallway 691 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,959 Speaker 3: And they're like, I don't want to talk about that, 692 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, that is, unfortunately the thing you 693 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 3: have to talk about. So the ending is hard for 694 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 3: people because either the vulnerability frightens them or quite frankly, 695 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 3: they haven't really thought about their lives. I think most 696 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 3: people live their lives not thinking about their lives. Storytellers 697 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 3: are deeply curious about themselves in a self centered, positive way, 698 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 3: meaning we actually think about ourselves, where most people in 699 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 3: the world they spend all their time thinking about their 700 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 3: spouses and children and children and colleagues and business partners 701 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 3: and customers and neighbors and parents. But how often do 702 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: you actually sit down and just say to yourself, like 703 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 3: why am I the way I am? And why am 704 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 3: I in this place in this time? And what am 705 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 3: I thinking today? A storyteller actually does that in a 706 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 3: really deep and meaningful way. People don't normally do it. 707 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 3: So when I say to them, well, what are you 708 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 3: trying to say at the end of this story, that 709 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 3: is not a question they have even considered most of 710 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 3: the time in their lives. So it's for the first 711 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 3: time in their life that I'm saying, take the events 712 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 3: that happened to you something did happen, and somewhere in 713 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 3: your heart you know what it was, but you have 714 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 3: to go find it now. And that can be an 715 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 3: unfortunate and difficult and scary journey, but we have to 716 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 3: go find it or unfortunately, I tell them, that's just 717 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff that happened to you and it 718 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 3: doesn't have meaning. Let's go find something with meaning. And 719 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 3: that's also a hard thing to hear, you know, especially 720 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 3: if you're a guy who has been going to a 721 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 3: bar all your life telling a story that makes everybody laugh, 722 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 3: and I have to tell them, but you understand, no 723 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 3: one remembers your story like you understand six months later 724 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 3: that thing that always makes people laugh is completely forgotten 725 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: by everybody. Whereas if you told a more meaningful story 726 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 3: that didn't necessarily get as many laughs, but was vulnerable 727 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 3: and reflected some change and some real, you know, a 728 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 3: pivotal moment in your life, people will remember that. So 729 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 3: your choice is do you want to make people laugh 730 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 3: and then be forgettable or do you want to tell 731 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 3: a story that we'll be remembered for a long time. 732 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 3: And that's a hard that's a hard lesson for people 733 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 3: to learn, Matt. 734 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 2: For people that want to consume more of what you 735 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 2: are putting out into the world, and particularly get their 736 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 2: hands on story Worthy. I cannot recommend it highly enough. 737 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 2: What is the best way for people to connect with you? 738 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 3: Well, they can find me at Matthew Dicks dot com 739 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 3: or I'm all of the social media is at my 740 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 3: name if they go to story WHERETHEMD dot com A. 741 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 3: I have sort of a course that I offer. You 742 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 3: can like take the you can do the first module 743 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 3: for free. You can join our Facebook group where I 744 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 3: teach lessons. I teach one hour storytelling lessons every other 745 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 3: week for free. You can just come in and learn 746 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 3: and actually offer me suggestions on what I should be 747 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 3: teaching next. So it's not hard to find me. You 748 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 3: can just google my name and I'm in many many places, 749 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 3: and I'm more than happy to I'm just more than 750 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 3: happy to offer help. You know. It's the reason I 751 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 3: wrote story Worthy. You know, I certainly want to sell 752 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 3: a book, but really what I wanted to do was 753 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 3: people would come and see me in Hertford, Connecticut from 754 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 3: places like China. You know. I did a workshop where 755 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 3: I had two people from China and a person from Seattle, 756 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 3: someone from Vancouver, and I'm like, this is crazy because 757 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 3: Hartford is terrible, like there's nothing to see here. So 758 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 3: I wrote story Worthy, thinking, rather than spending a weekend 759 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 3: with me, I'm going to give you the book. It's 760 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 3: not going to be as good, but it's going to 761 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 3: be pretty good, you know. And then if you get 762 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 3: the audio version, you can listen to me actually speak it, 763 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 3: so then you spend sort of time with me. That 764 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 3: was the purpose of the book, And really the purpose 765 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 3: of the book was I want there to be better 766 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 3: storytelling in the world. I want people to be able 767 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 3: to say stuff that matters. And I think the most 768 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 3: important thing about storytelling is not really that we're speaking 769 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 3: to audiences. I always think the most important audience we 770 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 3: speak to is ourselves. Even if you never want to 771 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 3: tell a story to an audience in your life, telling 772 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 3: stories to yourself about your own life can do enormous 773 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 3: things for you in terms of framing trauma and moving 774 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 3: past difficulties and finding personal understanding, which can lead to 775 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 3: personal growth. The examined life is the well lived life, 776 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,919 Speaker 3: and we don't examine our lives. But when you become 777 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 3: a storyteller, you become sort of obsessed with the idea 778 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 3: of examining your life. So telling stories to yourself is 779 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,479 Speaker 3: important too, So I want that for everyone. So whether 780 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 3: you find me in my book or you find me 781 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 3: on the line or anywhere, there's lots of places we 782 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 3: can learn to become a better storyteller. 783 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 2: Amazing, Matt, It's just been such a privilege to talk 784 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 2: to you. Story Worthy was definitely one of the best 785 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 2: books that I've read in a while. I'm so grateful 786 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 2: that you put all those thoughts in your mind onto paper. 787 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. 788 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 2: So I did end up taking Matt's advice on the 789 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: story that I was going to be delivering in a workshop, 790 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 2: and a few days after this interview, I shared the 791 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 2: story very much in the way Matt helped reconstruct it 792 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 2: and eat land so well, infinitely better than had I 793 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: told it chronologically. 794 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: So if you're looking to really hone your. 795 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 2: Storytelling skills, I cannot recommend Matt's book story Worthy highly enough. 796 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 2: It has completely changed the way I think about telling stories. 797 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing part of your day with me 798 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 2: by listening to how I work. 799 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: If you're keen for. 800 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 2: More tips on how to work better, connect with me 801 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 2: via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just 802 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: search for Amantha Gimber. How I Work was recorded on 803 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 2: the traditional land of the Warrenery people, part of the 804 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 2: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able 805 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 2: to work and live on this beautiful land, and I 806 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 2: want to pay my respects to Elder's past, present and emerging. 807 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 2: How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support 808 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 2: from Dead Set Studios. 809 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was 810 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: Liam Riordan, and thank you to Martin Nimba who did 811 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 2: the audio mix and makes everything sound better than it 812 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 2: would have otherwise.