Speaker 1: Working from home is really difficult. It's a lot about
Speaker 1: sort of setting yourself up for success. So I think
Speaker 1: there are definitely things that you can do for me.
Speaker 1: It's about getting a routine, getting a schedule. I think
Speaker 1: the people that are able to grow and really build
Speaker 1: their community right now and like work really hard on it.
Speaker 1: If you have the time, now is the time to
Speaker 1: really invest in your Instagram, then I think some people
Speaker 1: will see some really good results right when we come
Speaker 1: out of this.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Outspoken. Today, you're
Speaker 2: joined by journalists Amy and Kate Torber. On today's show,
Speaker 2: we're joined by the inspiring Courtney mangan. Courtney is the
Speaker 2: owner of Spin and Co, the Spin Studio network, and
Speaker 2: the creative director of James Cosmetics. She's also the voice
Speaker 2: behind the Pop Culture Club and The Spin Life. In
Speaker 2: this episode, the thirty three year old shares with us
Speaker 2: her secrets to working productively at home and how to
Speaker 2: stay positive in the.
Speaker 3: Face of adversity.
Speaker 2: So officially, Courtney, welcome to Outspoken again. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for joining us with such short notice.
Speaker 1: That's okay, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: So with all this crazy COVID nineteen stuff, going on.
Speaker 2: How are you dealing as a business owner.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a lot. It's very overwhelming, sort
Speaker 1: of just personally and as a business owner. You know,
Speaker 1: we keep getting notifications to our phone every day with
Speaker 1: all these outlandish headlines and it's scary and you know,
Speaker 1: not knowing how long it's going to last, I think
Speaker 1: is you know, that's obviously the biggest unknown, and that's
Speaker 1: one of the scariest things. And whether it's going to
Speaker 1: affect like your health, your family's health, your staff's health.
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's a lot to deal with that.
Speaker 1: All you can do is try and figure it out
Speaker 1: as we go, and I think that's what everyone's doing,
Speaker 1: just to keep.
Speaker 3: It a little bit lighter.
Speaker 2: I know, for one, I'm running out of Netflix suggestions,
Speaker 2: and as a self invested pop culture at it, can
Speaker 2: you share with us what you've been watching.
Speaker 1: Well, I think for me, it's like going back to
Speaker 1: the old comforts, So just those old faves you know
Speaker 1: that I know that I'm gonna love. So it's like
Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy, Friends, the West Wing and that type stuff.
Speaker 1: But I have been watching that new Netflix true crime
Speaker 1: doco series called Tiger King have you heard of that?
Speaker 2: Yes, I've watched some of it. It's so weird, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I felt like what was going on in the
Speaker 1: world here was crazy, but this is the next level.
Speaker 1: It's about like this crazy zoo owner that basically just
Speaker 1: has tigers everywhere in America in his home. It's like
Speaker 1: there's like murder mystery, like a whole bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I'm not to the end of it yet,
Speaker 1: but I'm hearing a lot of people saying that it's
Speaker 1: really good so so far what I've watched I would recommend,
Speaker 1: but also finding myself trying to do like more productive things.
Speaker 1: I find that when I sit down and I binge
Speaker 1: watch things for long periods of days on end, it
Speaker 1: kind of makes me a little flat. And so I'm
Speaker 1: trying to avoid too much mindless watching like of TV
Speaker 1: because otherwise I just feel like it doesn't be in
Speaker 1: the greatest head. So I'm doing more productive things like
Speaker 1: podcasts where I'm learning something, or like books and things
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Are there any podcasts you'd recommend that people should be
Speaker 2: listening to besides of course Spinn and Co's podcast.
Speaker 1: Well, Brene Brown has just launched her podcast, and she's
Speaker 1: done I think three episodes so far and she's recorded
Speaker 1: them all like right in the middle of what we're
Speaker 1: all dealing with. And Bretne Brown is just amazing at
Speaker 1: what she does for speaking about things to do with
Speaker 1: mental health. So I think that's a really productive podcast
Speaker 1: to listen to. And I also really like the Skinny
Speaker 1: Confidential him and her podcast, and I just think they
Speaker 1: have great guests on about a bunch of things. It
Speaker 1: could be like about sex, or it could be about
Speaker 1: something spiritual, or it could be about health, it could
Speaker 1: be about makeup. They just have a wide range of
Speaker 1: topics and I find it really educational.
Speaker 2: Have you listened to allta Ab Chatfield's new podcast it's
Speaker 2: called It's a Lot.
Speaker 1: No, I haven't gotten to it. I have subscribed to them.
Speaker 1: I've got such a long list of things to get
Speaker 1: through at the moment, I.
Speaker 3: Have to say.
Speaker 2: I listened to a few episodes, and it is a lot.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: It is sort of really it's.
Speaker 2: So I love it. I will listen to it, but wow,
Speaker 2: they really go there with some of their love and
Speaker 2: relationship questions, to the point where I walked outside listening
Speaker 2: to it and I had to mute it because they
Speaker 2: started talking about I don't know, there's size and shape
Speaker 2: of men's appendages, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I feel like this is too much to be publicly listening.
Speaker 1: To check it.
Speaker 2: Out, Yeah, definitely, I would recommend it. I was going
Speaker 2: to say, working at Spin and Co. There's you know,
Speaker 2: there's been so much talk about toilet paper thefts. On
Speaker 2: a lighter note, have you guys had any of your
Speaker 2: staff trying to take toilet paper or have you been
Speaker 2: tempted to take any toilet paper?
Speaker 1: No, we haven't. We did have about a week and
Speaker 1: a half ago an issue because obviously we're going through
Speaker 1: more toilet paper than you would in your home with stuff,
Speaker 1: so we had to like go to all the different
Speaker 1: wholesales and we had to actually they had jacked the
Speaker 1: price up so bad. I was like, Wow, we've just
Speaker 1: spent hundreds of on a few rolls of toilet paper.
Speaker 1: That's like crazy. And I did say to the stuff like,
Speaker 1: we know how many there are don't do anything crazy,
Speaker 1: But now we're all working from home, so they're left
Speaker 1: to their own devices with their toilet.
Speaker 2: Paper, and so how are your staff going at home?
Speaker 2: I know I watch a lot of your Insta stories
Speaker 2: and I've seen the group's skype chats.
Speaker 3: How is that going?
Speaker 1: I think that, to be honest, I've always been like
Speaker 1: a really I guess I'm a micromanager, which sometimes has
Speaker 1: its good things and bad things, but it's I've always
Speaker 1: been like quite a hands on boss, and I think
Speaker 1: I have a pretty great relationship with my team, So
Speaker 1: I've always been able to stay like really close and
Speaker 1: connected to them, so that even in saying that, I've
Speaker 1: had to like really sit down and come up with
Speaker 1: a plan of action and how I'm going to make
Speaker 1: sure that all of them are engaged every day and
Speaker 1: feeling like they're not in this alone. So I've done
Speaker 1: a few things. So obviously we do the daily Zoom
Speaker 1: meeting and that's just like a major thing I think
Speaker 1: most companies are doing at the moment. But we also
Speaker 1: have like a group chat on Facebook Messenger that we
Speaker 1: message throughout the day, and I kind of get everyone
Speaker 1: to take photos of their lunch and I'd like for
Speaker 1: lunch today, or like I'll say, screenshot the music that
Speaker 1: you're listening to. And it's just like little things to
Speaker 1: get people going. And actually one of our stuff. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if everyone's cottoned on yet, but one of
Speaker 1: the guys in our team has been like finding crazy
Speaker 1: meals online and posting those photos and saying he's eating them.
Speaker 1: So the other day, who's saying that he was eating
Speaker 1: mac and cheese with ntella and he was like it's
Speaker 1: so good. Everyone was like, oh my god, I have
Speaker 1: to try it, but you're just googlings. So yeah. So
Speaker 1: it's like little things like that. And then I also
Speaker 1: do like afternoon Trivia challenge through Zoom, so it's like
Speaker 1: ten minutes where everyone pops on. I just ask them
Speaker 1: some sort of pop culture trivia or I might say
Speaker 1: to them like, you know, the first person who can
Speaker 1: get to the screen with a toothbrush, or like little
Speaker 1: challenges like that. It's like silly, but it makes them
Speaker 1: feel like it's a little break up during the day,
Speaker 1: and it makes them feel like a bit more connected.
Speaker 2: Have you seen all the videos going viral of people
Speaker 2: having their massive fails on Zoom? I think there was
Speaker 2: a lady who didn't realize she was on camera going
Speaker 2: to the toilet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what kind of staff ever records that and
Speaker 1: then like puts it online as well, that's horrible, that
Speaker 1: poor woman.
Speaker 2: Well do you have any advice to people who might
Speaker 2: not have used Skype or Zoom? I mean, obviously don't
Speaker 2: go to the toilet while you're on there, but is
Speaker 2: there sort of any etiquette tips you could provide.
Speaker 1: I think that lighting is a major thing that I'm finding.
Speaker 1: So when I'm looking at all of my staff on there,
Speaker 1: it's like this real big blackout. And that's like my
Speaker 1: mom and my dad because they work from us, the
Speaker 1: one's not observing it where it's like the young people
Speaker 1: are like looking for the perfect lighting. And even though
Speaker 1: it seems silly, it is actually important because I can't
Speaker 1: see when my mom is talking because it's so dark,
Speaker 1: and so she's like obviously got the sun behind her,
Speaker 1: like so she's the windows behind her, and it's like
Speaker 1: makes it very dark where is Everybody else is looking
Speaker 1: into the sun, so it means the light's lighting their area.
Speaker 1: So I think lighting is a big thing. And then
Speaker 1: also like Google stuff, if you don't understand things, Google
Speaker 1: is there. That's why I say to all of my stuff,
Speaker 1: like how do I do this in Excel? Or how
Speaker 1: do I do this in Zoom? And I'm like Google it.
Speaker 1: The Google's available to everyone can use that.
Speaker 2: I'm just impressed that your parents have it, Like you know,
Speaker 2: when parents have it like zoomed up on their nostrils
Speaker 2: or something. It's impressive that they've actually, I mean, they've
Speaker 2: got to get there. Well. No, no, our dad just
Speaker 2: if we ever skype him, he just pretends Skype's frozen
Speaker 2: all the time. He still finds it funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, my parents are pretty good. They have. Given
Speaker 1: that they work for us, they kind of have to
Speaker 1: be good with like emails and stuff like that. But
Speaker 1: we just had We just showed them the one time
Speaker 1: and then they kind of got the hang of it.
Speaker 1: So good.
Speaker 2: Well, you work really closely with influencers, and there's been
Speaker 2: a lot of talk about how they're going to be
Speaker 2: affected by COVID nineteen. What do you well, how do
Speaker 2: you think the industry will change.
Speaker 1: It's obviously hard to tell because it's early days, but
Speaker 1: I think we already have seen a big shift in
Speaker 1: the way that people are using their platforms, and I
Speaker 1: would say the biggest shift would be on Instagram. So
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be pretty interesting. So I think
Speaker 1: it's going to depend on the style of influencer. You
Speaker 1: are obviously travel bloggers, people that review restaurants, those kinds
Speaker 1: of people who are going to have a hard time.
Speaker 1: There's not a huge it's not easy to shift from like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm a travel blogger's like here, I'm at home now,
Speaker 1: you know. Or if you don't have any of your
Speaker 1: own cooking skills and you're usually reviewing other people's food,
Speaker 1: then it's hard to pivot. But I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: people that do beauty, fashion, fitness pages are seeing a real,
Speaker 1: really big surge of being able to do more things
Speaker 1: at home because there's more eyeballs on their Instagram at
Speaker 1: the moment, and there's an opportunity to utilize Insta Story Live,
Speaker 1: which is our Instagram Live, which we haven't I haven't
Speaker 1: ever seen this many lives in my whole life on
Speaker 1: Instagram and so, and there's a lot more Insta Story content.
Speaker 1: I think it's a great way for influencers to really
Speaker 1: build on their community at the moment and make the
Speaker 1: most of kind of what's happening and figure out how
Speaker 1: they can engage in new ways. And people are gonna
Speaker 1: have to think outside the box, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like you can't keep posting throwback photos, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, I don't want to keep seeing someone
Speaker 1: like when I was in Bali every day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a little bit time, Jeff, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. So people are going to have to get
Speaker 1: more creative and figure out how to be more authentic
Speaker 1: with what they're doing. And I think we're going to
Speaker 1: see less polish, I guess, and a bit more authenticity. So,
Speaker 1: you know, for a travel blogger he usually posts these
Speaker 1: perfectly curated photos, or even a fashion blogger who has
Speaker 1: these perfectly styled photos, you might not be able to
Speaker 1: do that from your own home anymore. So we might
Speaker 1: see a little bit more authentic content coming through. But
Speaker 1: I did sort of read an article online from there
Speaker 1: was a comment from Tarren Williams, who she works for
Speaker 1: or she owns like a I guess, an influencer branding
Speaker 1: kind of agency. It's like a marketplace where people can
Speaker 1: directly communicate with influencers, and she was saying that she's
Speaker 1: sort of seeing a big shift with increase in brands
Speaker 1: wanting to work with fashion bloggers, beauty influencers, all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, because they're at home and they're online stores.
Speaker 1: They're trying to people online shopping at the moment, so
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting to see. But I think
Speaker 1: the people that are able to grow and really build
Speaker 1: their community right now and like work really hard on it.
Speaker 1: If you have the time, now is the time to
Speaker 1: really invest in your Instagram, then I think some people
Speaker 1: will see some really good results in it when we
Speaker 1: come out of this.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 2: There's never you know, when you're watching a vlog and
Speaker 2: an influencers like, oh sorry, I left my camera at
Speaker 2: home and I didn't actually capture any of my day.
Speaker 3: There's like no excuses.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah there is, But I also think people have
Speaker 1: to be so careful as well with what they're doing,
Speaker 1: and like I'm trying to I'm not an influencer by
Speaker 1: any stretch that means, but I do share my life
Speaker 1: online and like even the other day, there was an
Speaker 1: fluencer who was doing like a styling thing, and so
Speaker 1: she was like every day a new styling outfit, and
Speaker 1: she was trying to get people to like challenge people
Speaker 1: to do it, and she was tagging people saying like
Speaker 1: I'd love to see your style. I'd love to see
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Here's day one challenge wearing a blazer
Speaker 1: day two, double dinner or whatever. And then she was like,
Speaker 1: use the hashtag Corona chic. Oh, And I just messaged
Speaker 1: her and was like, look, I'm thanks for tagging me,
Speaker 1: but I really feel like i'd feel shit if I
Speaker 1: didn't say that hash is a very bad idea. And
Speaker 1: I felt like I didn't know. I'm like, should I
Speaker 1: say anything, like it would be one of those people.
Speaker 1: But also it's like that is a very poor decision.
Speaker 1: So I was like, look, I just think you should
Speaker 1: be careful. That's a bit insensitive about it. People are dying.
Speaker 1: I don't think you want to make that chic, you know,
Speaker 1: think of like your son was like, aid, shee, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like cancer. She No, that's wrong.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 2: And plus we're all wearing pajamas at home anyways. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to be honest, I.
Speaker 1: Was like, also, I'm not getting dressed every day.
Speaker 2: That was one thing I was hating about the Zoom
Speaker 2: meetings at work because I'm like, i feel like I've
Speaker 2: got to, you know, get ready where I mean, But
Speaker 2: then you do feel better once you have sort of
Speaker 2: gotten out of the pajamas.
Speaker 3: I mean, moved into active wear, but it's still a
Speaker 3: still a step in the right track.
Speaker 1: Every day is active wear, but I definitely get out
Speaker 1: of my pajamas every day. But yeah, she changed the
Speaker 1: hashtag getting more all the stories that was good.
Speaker 3: Did she changed it too so we can look it up?
Speaker 1: Is it? I can't even remember what it was. It
Speaker 1: was just like every day sheep, very very general.
Speaker 2: Then we're talking about influencers. I've noticed a few who
Speaker 2: have been posting I'm assuming sponsored content of them wearing
Speaker 2: specific branded face masks. What's your take. Do you think
Speaker 2: that's a clever move or do you think it's It
Speaker 2: sort of fits in the same category as the Corona
Speaker 2: chic hashtag.
Speaker 1: Do you mean like the like the medical kind of masks.
Speaker 2: Well, I've seen I think it's culture. Kings have released
Speaker 2: some face masks and I've seen a few influencers donning them,
Speaker 2: and to be honest, I mean, they look better than
Speaker 2: the surgical mask. But I don't I don't know how
Speaker 2: I feel about it. Do you think that it's sort
Speaker 2: of okay to be I suppose profiting or.
Speaker 3: Taking selfies, I suppose making light of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I mean I think it's like at the moment,
Speaker 1: it's a really hard mix. We can't deny that businesses
Speaker 1: are going to have to capitalize in some way in
Speaker 1: what's happening to stay afloat, you know. And if people
Speaker 1: can make a mask more shiki geky or whatever and
Speaker 1: people want to buy it, then you know, more power
Speaker 1: to them. It definitely is a fine line. Like I
Speaker 1: think a hashtag is definitely not the right direction. But
Speaker 1: my issue with those mass is like, are they actually
Speaker 1: doing anything?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I suppose at least they're stopping the
Speaker 2: strain on people, you know, using the medical ones, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't really seem like they do much from what
Speaker 2: I've googled anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I think as well. It's like, I
Speaker 1: actually don't think there's And then do you see people
Speaker 1: wearing them but just over their mouth and not over
Speaker 1: their nose? Really not doing anything.
Speaker 2: I kind of want. When I was looking at I
Speaker 2: love Michael Jacks, and I must say, and I know
Speaker 2: he was wearing the masks way back in the day,
Speaker 2: and if you google it some of the masks he
Speaker 2: was wearing. I was like, people should get onto that,
Speaker 2: you know, there should Yeah, I'm sure they will in
Speaker 2: six months time we might all be wearing them regardless
Speaker 2: of if the coronavirus is around.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I was just thinking the other day I
Speaker 1: wonder what's going to happen with fashion, Like are we
Speaker 1: just pausing and will the trends remain the same or
Speaker 1: we're going to get a whole new trend, Like what's
Speaker 1: going to how are we going to come out in
Speaker 1: a totally different season? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like are we going to go in and autumn and
Speaker 1: come out in you know spring? Who letty knows what's
Speaker 1: going to happen.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, I know, and it's so bad because I
Speaker 2: keep getting emails with all the sales and I'm so tempted,
Speaker 2: but I'm like, oh, I don't know if it's the
Speaker 2: right time to.
Speaker 1: Cloth. That's why I'm like, I'll have no where to
Speaker 1: wear it, and will it still be like trendy when
Speaker 1: I'm going to wear it? I don't know. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to like hold back, But then I'm also mindful that,
Speaker 1: like I want people to spend with my businesses, so
Speaker 1: I want to be supporting people as well. So it
Speaker 1: definitely is a fine mix because you want to save
Speaker 1: your money in case anything happens, and then also you
Speaker 1: want to be supporting people, so it is difficult exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, one thing I've been loving particularly, and you've touched
Speaker 2: on a few of the tips already, but is the
Speaker 2: tips you've been sharing at home to be productive. Now
Speaker 2: we've spoken about getting out of your pajamas and the
Speaker 2: zoom meetings, but are there any other things you can
Speaker 2: share with us that help you get productive and motivated
Speaker 2: when you're working from home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that it's a lot about sort of
Speaker 1: setting yourself up for success. Working from home is really difficult.
Speaker 1: You know. Even I'm pretty good at sticking to my work,
Speaker 1: and I work from home regularly at night on weekends.
Speaker 1: Being a business owner, that's pretty like it comes pretty
Speaker 1: naturally to me. But even me sitting there for eight
Speaker 1: hours every single day, all alone, I'm single, so I
Speaker 1: do literally live alone. It's really hard. And if you
Speaker 1: just think you can just turn your laptop on in
Speaker 1: the morning and sit on the couch and you're going
Speaker 1: to do that day in and day out for eight hours,
Speaker 1: you're just setting yourself off of failure. So I think
Speaker 1: there are definitely things that you can do for me
Speaker 1: It's about getting a routine, getting a schedule. So I
Speaker 1: make sure that I wake up at the same time
Speaker 1: every day, and then whether it's like then I make
Speaker 1: my breakfast or then I work out or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: it's about having those all things that you would normally
Speaker 1: do get having a shower, getting changed into even if
Speaker 1: we said activewear or like you know, tracks, trackies, whatever
Speaker 1: it is. Having a designated workspace is really important, I think,
Speaker 1: because I think it's going to be an issue with
Speaker 1: people not knowing when to turn off work life and
Speaker 1: turn on you know, like you personal life, I guess,
Speaker 1: or certain life it's not really social, and then it's
Speaker 1: going to be the flip side. You know, if you
Speaker 1: start the morning watching a favorite Netflix show, at what
Speaker 1: point does that stop and then you actually are productive
Speaker 1: with work, you know. So we're going to find that
Speaker 1: is an issue. So that's why I always try to
Speaker 1: be like, well, I'm at my desk by eight point
Speaker 1: thirty every single morning, ready for the day, and I
Speaker 1: only get up to like go to the bathroom, walk
Speaker 1: her outside if I want some fresh air on my
Speaker 1: balcony or to make my lunch, and then I sit
Speaker 1: back down, like don't sit on the couch because I
Speaker 1: know if I sit there and I turn that TV on,
Speaker 1: I'll be there the rest of the day. So it's
Speaker 1: about kind of like setting yourself up for that, and
Speaker 1: then you know, opening the windows and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I find really helps letting the light in, not working
Speaker 1: from your bed, all those kinds of little things. I'm
Speaker 1: just I brought as many things from my office that
Speaker 1: I could that I always have on my desk so
Speaker 1: that what I'm looking at is a similar thing to
Speaker 1: what I'm always looking at. So I have like these
Speaker 1: little cubes that I have on my desk, and I
Speaker 1: have my pen holder and all those little things that
Speaker 1: I normally have. I tried to put on my like
Speaker 1: dining table at home.
Speaker 2: Love your little flip cards and your motivational quotes, Like
Speaker 2: I always see them in the morning and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's so cool, Like I think it's great that you
Speaker 2: keep doing that. And I just sort of sponge off
Speaker 2: the quotes that you keep putting up.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's a great one for the day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny, how like timely some of them. Bar
Speaker 1: It's like I'm like, wow, that's really poignant today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 2: Sorry I sound like some sort of weird stalker, but
Speaker 2: I did see the one this morning and I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's a really really poignant today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's crazy, isn't it. Yeah. I really
Speaker 1: enjoy that, and a lot of like my followers are
Speaker 1: always like, oh my god, I love these quotes, please
Speaker 1: keep doing it, So I was. I like doing it
Speaker 1: so I may all share. It doesn't really hurt anythings,
Speaker 1: so that's why I keep doing it. But it is
Speaker 1: that routine every single day, that ritual that I always do,
Speaker 1: and that's how I kick my day off every day.
Speaker 1: So I think it's important to get into a routine
Speaker 1: to kind of get your head in the right space.
Speaker 2: Now, we had your brother Sam on the show probably
Speaker 2: a few months ago now, and he is, of course
Speaker 2: fabulous and we love chatting with him. How do you
Speaker 2: think you would go if you two were in lockdown
Speaker 2: just with each other.
Speaker 1: Well, we used to live together like a year and
Speaker 1: a half ago, so when we basically I lived with
Speaker 1: my boyfriend years and news and years ago, so I
Speaker 1: moved out of home and then when I was deciding
Speaker 1: to start a business with Sam, I moved back in
Speaker 1: home to home so I could just crazily save and
Speaker 1: then when I was done and we were ready to
Speaker 1: kick off Spin and Co. I then moved out with
Speaker 1: Sam and one of his best friends. So I've lived
Speaker 1: with him, like actually just him and his friend for
Speaker 1: like I guess, four four and a half years, only
Speaker 1: a year ago, so it wasn't you know, I have
Speaker 1: done it. But Sam is a very sort of not reclusive,
Speaker 1: but like on his own, we had very separate lives,
Speaker 1: so we barely ever saw each other at the house,
Speaker 1: but he did live in a large house. If we
Speaker 1: lived in a very small place on top of each other,
Speaker 1: I think he would kill me. I'm pretty him, but
Speaker 1: I think he'd probably kill me, So I don't think
Speaker 1: that would work out very well. But yeah, usually we
Speaker 1: have pretty separate lives. Even at work, I handle very
Speaker 1: different stuff to what he handles, so we don't cross
Speaker 1: paths very often. I'm actually seeing more of him now
Speaker 1: every day on Zoom than I normally do at the office.
Speaker 2: I think that's cool because my sister, she's not in
Speaker 2: this interview. Kate's obviously my sister, but I run a
Speaker 2: business with my sister, and that's what we find troublesome
Speaker 2: sometimes working out who is the boss. So we've recently
Speaker 2: just given each other different titles and roles and and
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. Is that something you would advise
Speaker 2: to other people who might be running a business with
Speaker 2: their family.
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, there's always going to be that
Speaker 1: power struggle and Sam's always going to win that. That's
Speaker 1: his personality. He's always going to be the boss and
Speaker 1: he wants it that way, and I'm fine with that,
Speaker 1: and so I'm comfortable with because then I know, if
Speaker 1: the shit hits a fan, it's like, well, okay, you
Speaker 1: wanted to be the one that was ultimately in control,
Speaker 1: and that's where he's most comfortable. And I was never
Speaker 1: someone who wanted to start a business. If Sam hadn't
Speaker 1: said let's do this, I would still just be a
Speaker 1: manager or a high level management at a business. That's
Speaker 1: kind of what I wanted to always wanted to be
Speaker 1: sort of in leadership and helping lead people that I
Speaker 1: never wanted to go out on my own. So it
Speaker 1: was his idea to do this, and we sort of
Speaker 1: utilize my skills in managing staff and his skills in
Speaker 1: networking and being able to you know, bring in new
Speaker 1: business and all that kind of stuff, and then we
Speaker 1: combine like our creative ideas and all of that and
Speaker 1: are hard work, and so I guess it's a little
Speaker 1: bit different because that's how we kind of set it up,
Speaker 1: that he'd be like the headhon show, and that I'd
Speaker 1: be the person behind the scenes kind of wrangling everything,
Speaker 1: and that works best for us. I mean, not gonna lie. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we still by the head. Sometimes he has these crazy
Speaker 1: ideas and he's a risk taker and I am not.
Speaker 1: But ultimately his risk taking skills is what's made this
Speaker 1: business so successful. And it's his you know, networking skills
Speaker 1: that has you know, have built our company. So I
Speaker 1: have to trust his decisions and he backs himself one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. So that's kind of how we do it.
Speaker 1: I think if you get into a power struggle of
Speaker 1: like no I'm in charge or in charge and you
Speaker 1: don't figure out where each of your places are, that's
Speaker 1: just going to be a toxic environment.
Speaker 2: That's some great advice. You guys also run James Cosmetics together,
Speaker 2: and you have some amazing self care products. Are there
Speaker 2: any ones you'd recommend for people who are looking for
Speaker 2: a bit of self care Iso day.
Speaker 1: I mean, their iemasks are probably my favorite product that
Speaker 1: they have, and that's sort of their the James Cosmetics
Speaker 1: iconic thing. There's something like ten different ie maasks for
Speaker 1: all different things from like depuffing too dark circles to
Speaker 1: you know, fine lines, all that kind of thing. An
Speaker 1: I mask is one it makes you feel like you're
Speaker 1: doing something hydrating. It's nice and pampering and you can
Speaker 1: multitask with it, which is what I love. And that's
Speaker 1: why I love podcasts because I can clean, I can cook,
Speaker 1: I can exercise whilst I'm also learning something. So if
Speaker 1: I can also like do something good for my skin
Speaker 1: whilst I'm cleaning, cooking, working out or sitting watching TV
Speaker 1: and pampering, then that's that's the kind of product for me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I recommend their iemasks.
Speaker 2: They're sab One of the other things other than I've
Speaker 2: noticed you've been dotting the iemask a little bit. But
Speaker 2: one other thing that stands out on your Instagram is
Speaker 2: the fact that you've been really authentic and it's a
Speaker 2: really I find it a really positive place to go.
Speaker 2: I saw you last night, I think was wrangling with you, know,
Speaker 2: how do you be positive in this time, But can
Speaker 2: you talk us through how you do remain positive to
Speaker 2: your audience and why that's important.
Speaker 1: I think thank you for saying that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I think for me, I was never you know, like
Speaker 1: if you looked at my Instagram in October, I was
Speaker 1: sharing maybe what I ate at a restaurant, like here's
Speaker 1: a photo with my food, and that was pretty much
Speaker 1: all I was sharing. And then in December I was
Speaker 1: diagnosed with stage four melanoma, which has now been rediagnosed
Speaker 1: as stage three B. So that kind of I had,
Speaker 1: you know, a bit of a world when finding out
Speaker 1: that I'm thirty three years old with quite a serious,
Speaker 1: you know, disease, and I felt really out of control
Speaker 1: in like I couldn't control what was happening to my body,
Speaker 1: and so what I wanted to do was sort of
Speaker 1: help people control themselves. So I was like, wear sun cream,
Speaker 1: you know, go get skin checks. And I really wanted
Speaker 1: to be like an advocate for skin can sorry, I guess,
Speaker 1: to try to really raise awareness for this issue that
Speaker 1: I think is very serious and it's you know, the
Speaker 1: number one cancer for people age fifteen to thirty nine,
Speaker 1: and we don't really know a lot about it, other
Speaker 1: than just wik on some suncream when you're at the pool.
Speaker 1: That's kind of all it is. But we you know,
Speaker 1: the reality is I likely got my first skin cancer.
Speaker 1: It's my right shoulder blade, which is exactly where the
Speaker 1: sun hits me when I drive in my car every day.
Speaker 1: You know, I have very fair skin. I never went
Speaker 1: outside and got some burn. I always lather it up,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't lathering up when I was driving to work,
Speaker 1: when I was walking to get coffee, those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of born out of me doing that.
Speaker 1: And I talk a lot about my cancer treatment, and
Speaker 1: then I went through fertility because my cancer treatment could
Speaker 1: affect my fertility, so I had to harvest my eggs.
Speaker 1: It was like all of that, and I just said
Speaker 1: to myself, like, if I'm going to show some of it,
Speaker 1: I'm going to show it all. So I've been on
Speaker 1: my Instant story crying because you know, I'm having a
Speaker 1: bad day. But then I'm also there being like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm working my full hours today and here's what I
Speaker 1: do at work. And I have cancer, but I'm still
Speaker 1: living with it and I'm working and doing all of
Speaker 1: these things and then you know, I was I've always
Speaker 1: been kind of like pragmatic, I guess. So it's not
Speaker 1: like the glass is half m fior, it's half full.
Speaker 1: It's like there's water in the glass, you know. It
Speaker 1: was just like it is what it is, and that's
Speaker 1: like good sometimes. But in this kind of position where
Speaker 1: it's easy to be like, Okay, well you know this
Speaker 1: could be bad, it could be good, like we just
Speaker 1: got to get through it, I thought a bit of
Speaker 1: positivity could work. I watched a documentary called Heel on Netflix,
Speaker 1: which is really interesting about the power of the mind
Speaker 1: over the body, and so I just thought, look, you know,
Speaker 1: if that's bullshit or it's not, I may as well
Speaker 1: do it. Like if I can try and like be
Speaker 1: more positive, and that could potentially help the position that
Speaker 1: I'm in, Like why not. Thankfully I'm not susceptible to
Speaker 1: mental health issues, so that's a blessing. However, like we
Speaker 1: can all still do more work positive and so now
Speaker 1: that I don't really want to be like, hey, guys
Speaker 1: wear sun cream every day when everyone's sitting at home,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be talking about cancer right now.
Speaker 1: So I've thought, okay, well, maybe I need to share
Speaker 1: other things that I'm doing to try to get myself
Speaker 1: in a good mental place and be really positive about it,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of influencers right now, which rightly
Speaker 1: so are talking about like stay inside. This is going
Speaker 1: to be really bad, you know, like don't go near people,
Speaker 1: and like, you know, we do need that awareness that
Speaker 1: people need to understand right now, it's important that we're
Speaker 1: not fucking around with this, like we have to stay
Speaker 1: inside and isolate and do our best. There are still
Speaker 1: people going out shopping and having a good time having
Speaker 1: parties at home, and we need to do like normal shopping, sure,
Speaker 1: but you don't need to go with your friends. I
Speaker 1: saw like a group of like seventeen year old people
Speaker 1: the other day or like doing a group shopping session together,
Speaker 1: just like seven or eight of them, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh god, what are you doing.
Speaker 3: It's so frustrating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like for me, it's a well, you know,
Speaker 1: like we all know someone that's in that high risk category.
Speaker 1: But for me, it's like, although my immunity isn't compromised
Speaker 1: with my immunotherapy my cancer treatment, if I get this,
Speaker 1: I have to go into quarantine. And that means I
Speaker 1: can't get my fortnightly treatment because I'm in quarantine, and
Speaker 1: I can't not be getting my cancer treatment, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's really important to me as well that like
Speaker 1: people are careful with this. So I wanted to then
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, well I want to be really positive
Speaker 1: because a lot of places are really negative. But then
Speaker 1: also like everyone wants to hear about all the business
Speaker 1: techniques I have. But then I feel really insensitive because
Speaker 1: it's like people have lost their jobs and then I'm
Speaker 1: every day being like here's my schedule, here's all the
Speaker 1: work I'm doing. So it's really hard. I don't really know.
Speaker 1: So last night I was just kind of asking my followers,
Speaker 1: like what do you want from my page? Like I'm
Speaker 1: not going to do anything that's not natural to me.
Speaker 1: It's obviously got to be authentic that do you want
Speaker 1: to hear that? Like today I did Wait, I don't
Speaker 1: really know what I'm doing with waits. I could only
Speaker 1: do fifteen minutes because I'm not very strong and I'm
Speaker 1: really unfit. Do you want to hear that? Or do
Speaker 1: you just want the little fast forwarded video of me
Speaker 1: doing my workout and pretending like it was thirty minutes
Speaker 1: and I did it so easily. I don't know. So
Speaker 1: I was kind of just asking what people want. Overwhelming
Speaker 1: the responses. Don't overthink it and just do whatever you're
Speaker 1: doing and just share that with us. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to make sure that I'm being sensitive to
Speaker 1: the fact that people are going through a hard time.
Speaker 1: But I think people just want honesty and people feel
Speaker 1: better with positivity, but then they also feel less alone
Speaker 1: when you're honest and you say, like, I'm scared to.
Speaker 2: Well talking about you obviously mentioned your battle with cancer.
Speaker 2: Do you think that. I mean, I've seen a few
Speaker 2: campaigns trying to tell I suppose really young women about
Speaker 2: the dangers of sun tanning. Do you think people are
Speaker 2: actually getting it? Because I see it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's frustrating, Yeah, I mean it's I mean, Mecca
Speaker 1: has done a great job with call Time and Melanoma
Speaker 1: to really raise awareness. I think they call it Generation
Speaker 1: SBF and so, but that was just a little campaign.
Speaker 1: It's it's not just you know, that's just around summer,
Speaker 1: but the sun in Australia is all the time. You
Speaker 1: can still get cancer and winter. But yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that for me, it's the glamorization of tanning online. You know,
Speaker 1: like if an influencer was on an Insta story right
Speaker 1: now smoking regularly, people would come for them and they
Speaker 1: would say, like that's irresponsible. But someone being like going
Speaker 1: out to get some rays or like working on my
Speaker 1: tan or whatever, no one's saying anything to them, and
Speaker 1: that's just as damaging as smoking. And I think that
Speaker 1: people don't fully realize the impact that they have. And
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I'm not telling people to tan. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: you're not that you're also not really being responsible with
Speaker 1: your platform. So I would love to see influencers that
Speaker 1: have a big platform, especially you know, people that have
Speaker 1: a big following. Often that following is usually quite young,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's in those younger teen years, you know,
Speaker 1: or you know, any teen years where you're really forming
Speaker 1: your patterns and routines and what you think is good
Speaker 1: for your body that they really need to understand that,
Speaker 1: like it's not just about looking skinnier because your tanned,
Speaker 1: you know, like that could kill you. And so I
Speaker 1: don't think that there's enough out there and even for
Speaker 1: you know, like for instance, my second my bad cancer.
Speaker 1: I guess my first one was a melanoma on my
Speaker 1: shoulder blade. That was a mole, and that was three
Speaker 1: years ago, and this time it was a lump. Nobody
Speaker 1: told me to look for lumps. I didn't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know breast cancers lumps. Yeah, I didn't know melanoma
Speaker 1: was a lump. You know, there's just so many things like, well,
Speaker 1: I had a very serious melanoma three years ago, Why
Speaker 1: didn't someone tell me it was a lump that I'm
Speaker 1: looking for as well as a suspicious mole. You know,
Speaker 1: there's just so many things that we don't know. And
Speaker 1: people don't go get regular skin checks and they just
Speaker 1: think if they put a bit of suncream on while
Speaker 1: they're having them a heater by the fool, than they're fine,
Speaker 1: or like, you know, I'm tenned ready, so I don't burn,
Speaker 1: so that means I'm safe.
Speaker 2: I feel like there should be I feel like there
Speaker 2: should be some campaigns aimed at men as well, because
Speaker 2: I feel like, oh, yeah, men just go, oh, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, I'm fine. And I mean I don't think
Speaker 2: our dad's ever worn sun cream before. I mean he
Speaker 2: smokes like fifty cigarettes a day as well. So it's
Speaker 2: that one thing at a time.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's definitely true. Girls
Speaker 1: more often will wear suncream because it helps with anti aging,
Speaker 1: but men don't really often give a shit about their
Speaker 1: anti aging issues. So so my dad has had You
Speaker 1: should see his back. There's scars everywhere and he plays
Speaker 1: golf all the time. And like, Dad, you're sunburd Did
Speaker 1: you wear suncream today? Oh? Yeah, I forgot. What do
Speaker 1: you mean you forgot? You get melanoma and you're outside
Speaker 1: like it's crazy. People just don't take it seriously. And
Speaker 1: even I didn't, like, you know, I got that melanoma
Speaker 1: on my shoulder and it was fairly straightforward. It was.
Speaker 1: It was bad, but they cut it out. They got
Speaker 1: good margins, they took a lymph node and they were like, yep,
Speaker 1: you just got to get checked regularly now, but you're okay.
Speaker 1: And I was still, you know, wearing sun cream and
Speaker 1: stuff when I knew I was going to be out
Speaker 1: in the sun for long periods. But there I could
Speaker 1: have definitely been more careful, you know, And it's just
Speaker 1: like you don't. You don't think about it till it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: this actually could kill you now because you weren't careful enough.
Speaker 1: That you're like, oh shit, like what was I thinking?
Speaker 1: You know, like, it's not like I was trying to
Speaker 1: get a tan. I was just being lazy, well a
Speaker 1: lot of it.
Speaker 2: So I think that's I think that's great advice because yeah,
Speaker 2: you just don't think about it when you're in the car,
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, I'm fine. I was going to ask you.
Speaker 2: A lot of the campaigns have been around promoting fake tan,
Speaker 2: and I know Kate and I have debated it before
Speaker 2: whether we should just be promoting, you know, a paler
Speaker 2: skin instead of just the skin you're in. Yeah, just
Speaker 2: the skin you're in, not particularly glamorizing the fact that
Speaker 2: you have to be tan. Do you would you prefer
Speaker 2: to see a campaign around you know, you just love
Speaker 2: the skin you're in, rather than oh, here, lather yourself
Speaker 2: up in this fake tan product.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I think i've you know, Shameless have
Speaker 1: debated this before as well, where they talked about it.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know, everybody type is fine,
Speaker 1: every skin type is fine. It's that that kind of idea.
Speaker 1: But I think that it's a pretty big uphill battle
Speaker 1: with tanning, especially in Australia. Your skin, you know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you've got that healthy glow. You know. Even when I
Speaker 1: fake tan, I get like, oh my god, something's different.
Speaker 1: You look great. What is it? And it's like it's
Speaker 1: fake tan, you know. Like I think, I think that
Speaker 1: we've got an uphill battle. If we can get them
Speaker 1: wrong doing fake tan first and then we are loving
Speaker 1: the skin we're in later, then you know, that's what
Speaker 1: we have to do. It's going to be baby steps.
Speaker 1: I think. I would love to say that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: pale skin, dark skin, tan skin, whatever, olive skin, whatever
Speaker 1: you have is great. And obviously I think that because
Speaker 1: I wear fake tan, probably wants to. But I don't
Speaker 1: think it's realistic to think that we're going to change
Speaker 1: everyone's mindset on you know, tan skin being like healthier looking,
Speaker 1: prettier looking, whatever makes you look thinner, whatever people think.
Speaker 1: So I think like, if that's what we've got to
Speaker 1: do to get them out of the sun, then let's
Speaker 1: do that first and then we can work on love
Speaker 1: the skin, your room, whatever is working. I guess baby steps,
Speaker 1: I think is probably the easiest direction.
Speaker 2: Well, with all this quarantine, maybe it might go back
Speaker 2: to you know, olden days where it was you know,
Speaker 2: the people outside having to work, they're getting the tan,
Speaker 2: and us people who have the luxury working from home
Speaker 2: a pale. Maybe it's all my and you can't be
Speaker 2: bothered to do your tan in this time? Who's tanning
Speaker 2: self quarantine?
Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I definitely, like I just take the
Speaker 1: feeling of like the waiting for it to dry on
Speaker 1: your skin. I just hate it, so I can't do it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think maybe that would be great if
Speaker 1: that sort of vampire skin would when we came out of.
Speaker 2: It, well just to leave it on. I suppose a
Speaker 2: positive note, I would like to know if we go
Speaker 2: into lockdown and like full lockdown, what are you stocking
Speaker 2: up your cupboards with?
Speaker 1: Like do you mean like food?
Speaker 3: But yeah, sorry food wise.
Speaker 1: I mean like I am certainly not somebody to come
Speaker 1: to for health advice like food wise, and I'm a
Speaker 1: terrible wouldn't I'm a terrible cook. I just hate it,
Speaker 1: so I barely ever do it. But for me, like,
Speaker 1: I'm big on protein, so I'll probably have like lots
Speaker 1: of chicken breast and things like that mint steaks. That's
Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that I'll then have with like
Speaker 1: veggies and potato and gravy. Don't forget like the things
Speaker 1: that make your meal pleasant. But I think like those
Speaker 1: seasonings that you'll get to the end of this, you'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I have no onion powder or I
Speaker 1: have no gravy powder. It's all those little things. So
Speaker 1: it's like, wow, this is really bland. I wish I
Speaker 1: had remembered to get the grave box. It's that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff that I think I'm gonna really have to
Speaker 1: sit down and be like, what are the essentials to
Speaker 1: make my meal feel like normal? I think that's what
Speaker 1: I'll be doing, but I mean, yeah, I guess pastors
Speaker 1: rices those kinds of things. I'm trying to not think
Speaker 1: about stocking up on canned goods, Like who wants to
Speaker 1: live off baked beans?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's literally what my boyfriend went out
Speaker 2: and bought this slab of baked beans. I was like,
Speaker 2: we're holding baked beans. Where those people I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: eat this.
Speaker 1: I just don't understand, because it's like it's when you
Speaker 1: think of like a crisis like the apocalypse and stuff,
Speaker 1: it's people stuck up on tin goods. It's because there's
Speaker 1: no electricity, but like we still have electricity so you
Speaker 1: can still freeze your midt. So what are getting canned goods?
Speaker 1: So I don't understand that.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining us. We really
Speaker 2: appreciate you taking time out of your busy day and
Speaker 2: just thank you for being such a positive light and
Speaker 2: so inspiring and bringing really great messages to the public.
Speaker 2: We've really appreciated your time today, so thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on. Guys.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
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