Speaker 1: This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.
Speaker 2: Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
Speaker 2: on Cut. I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and today's guest
Speaker 2: is one that I am so excited about. Now she
Speaker 2: may or may not need an intro, but if you
Speaker 2: happen to have come to one of our Life Uncut
Speaker 2: Live show tours last year, Tony was one of our
Speaker 2: guests at the Perth Show and she didn't disappoint. She's
Speaker 2: an author, she's a writer, and she's one half of
Speaker 2: the astronomical podcast, the Tony and Ryan Podcast, which is
Speaker 2: huge in Australia but even bigger overseas. She's one of
Speaker 2: the funniest people I have met.
Speaker 1: No pressure.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the podcast, Tony Long. Oh my god. I
Speaker 2: also love the use of the term astronomical. You just
Speaker 2: do not hear that enough. I throw that term around
Speaker 2: like this is no Tomorrow, because it's like it really
Speaker 2: hits home. When someone says astronomical, You're like, wow, they
Speaker 2: mess be really good.
Speaker 3: I think what you meant to say about that, Britt
Speaker 3: is that Britain never uses it and she only reserves
Speaker 3: it for people like you, Tony.
Speaker 2: That's what she yeah, I was gonna say. I mean,
Speaker 2: it really cuts deep that you're just like, yeah, oh
Speaker 2: my god, that coffee was astronomical. I'm like, okay, that's
Speaker 2: how I use it, Tony.
Speaker 3: I reckon, you told the funniest accidentally unfiltered that we've
Speaker 3: potentially ever had.
Speaker 1: And so I mean there's a bit of a setup
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 3: So last year we did the live shows in October,
Speaker 3: we released some of the interviews from the live shows
Speaker 3: if you guys were across it last year, but then
Speaker 3: we didn't release Tony's because we always intended to have
Speaker 3: you on the actual podcast and interview you properly.
Speaker 2: And then I played hard to get for too long.
Speaker 2: And it's been a whole fucking year since we've been
Speaker 2: able to nail this down. She's been like ghosting, breadcrumbing
Speaker 2: and zombie. And she comes back, she reels me in
Speaker 2: and thinks we're in a relationship again, and then she
Speaker 2: goes to me again. Yeah. I just love the attention.
Speaker 2: To be quite honest, I've never had two ladies quite
Speaker 2: as beautiful as you guys in my DMS. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna like, hold onto
Speaker 2: this for as long as I can. I want to know.
Speaker 3: You said you've got a new accil unfielded story, but
Speaker 3: I'll take whatever embarrassing story you've got.
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like you've pumped the tires up of
Speaker 2: the other one. But basically, for yeah, anyone in Perth
Speaker 2: you would know that there's this ride at the Adventure
Speaker 2: World like theme park. But basically it's like this big
Speaker 2: pirate ship and it like is on a pendulum and
Speaker 2: it kind of like swings left to right and you
Speaker 2: kind of like swing up into the air and then
Speaker 2: back down and then it kind of goes the other way.
Speaker 2: And I actually I was just saying to you guys,
Speaker 2: like I get videos from people from around the world
Speaker 2: whenever they're at like a fair, because this ride is
Speaker 2: just like exists everywhere, so you would know it. But basically,
Speaker 2: I'm like sitting on this ride and it kind of
Speaker 2: like swings up and I'm like, oh, oh, that makes
Speaker 2: my dummy feel a little bit funny. And then it
Speaker 2: swung back the other way and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know what that was. And then I realized
Speaker 2: that like I didn't know what it was because I
Speaker 2: maybe wasn't supposed to know yet, and I'm like swinging
Speaker 2: on this right and I'm like, oh oh my god,
Speaker 2: it like swings back again. It really like teases you
Speaker 2: this ride. You really get your money's worth. And anyway,
Speaker 2: so I'm pretty sure I did my first come on
Speaker 2: a theme park ride. And who else can I say
Speaker 2: that did my first come that because you haven't done
Speaker 2: yours yet, not on.
Speaker 1: A theme park ride. Put it that way.
Speaker 2: I first come on the Pirate ship on the pirate
Speaker 2: ship thing, and I was just like I was stunned
Speaker 2: because I didn't really know what it was. I didn't
Speaker 2: know why it felt the way that it felt, and
Speaker 2: you know, like, how do you like? It was astronomic question?
Speaker 3: The real question, Tony is how many times did you
Speaker 3: go on? And after that you were like.
Speaker 2: Well that was she signed up to the VIP membership
Speaker 2: frequent flyof Well it's like seasonal. So Adventure World in
Speaker 2: Perth is only open from like October to March. Like
Speaker 2: it's only open during the hotter months, so when it's cold.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just imagining your mom's like, God, Tony
Speaker 3: spent all day on that fucking pirate chip ride.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who just travels with the World seasonal to like
Speaker 2: Female seasonal, I Go North to South. But you did
Speaker 2: say you actually had a more recent embarrassing moment too,
Speaker 2: Do you want to share that while you're here. On
Speaker 2: the podcast that I make with with Ryan, we introduced
Speaker 2: this idea that on February twenty ninth, so on that
Speaker 2: like leap Day, we introduced an episode where we could
Speaker 2: say something like own up to something, but then we
Speaker 2: couldn't talk about it until the next leap Day, kind
Speaker 2: of like a purge almost, And I introduced it because
Speaker 2: we'd only just started renting this studio space that we're
Speaker 2: in now, and so it was really new and we
Speaker 2: hadn't really like gotten a lot of furniture yet and
Speaker 2: didn't really like know the quirks of the building. And
Speaker 2: one morning it was early and I was like, there's
Speaker 2: a delivery coming today. I'll be the one to like
Speaker 2: go and accept it. Like I'll go and open the
Speaker 2: roller door. It's like a factory unit kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'll go and open the roller door
Speaker 2: and I'll figure it out, and that's fine, I'll let
Speaker 2: the guy in ru I'm like, great, I'll stay late
Speaker 2: for a different delivery. We're like awesome. I'm like, great compromise.
Speaker 2: I rock up here early and it was like early
Speaker 2: in the year, so I was still on the green juices,
Speaker 2: like I hadn't given up on my resolutions yet. And
Speaker 2: I walk up to the roller door and I like,
Speaker 2: my remote fob things not working. And then I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: I will go over to the door, and my key
Speaker 2: in actual like my physical key in the door isn't
Speaker 2: working either. The lock had seized uff and I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, like this guy should be here any minute,
Speaker 2: like and I'm not going to be able to accept
Speaker 2: the stuff. But then I realized that the bigger problem
Speaker 2: is that I've had three quarters of a green juice.
Speaker 2: I can't get into the building and I am about
Speaker 2: to violently shit myself. And so I'm sitting in my
Speaker 2: car and I'm like, what do I do? Like do
Speaker 2: I go to a Maca's around the corner and use
Speaker 2: the bathroom? And I'm like no, because this delivery is
Speaker 2: about to come and like then what's getting Like he's
Speaker 2: not going to be able to get in, He's going
Speaker 2: to leave and I'm just going to have to come
Speaker 2: back another day. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: panicking the Pooh is like about to escape my body.
Speaker 2: And I realized what I had to do was park
Speaker 2: my car kind of like across the front of driveway
Speaker 2: and fling the door open to kind of like try
Speaker 2: and cover me from the street. And I shot in
Speaker 2: the garden out of the front of our new building.
Speaker 3: I cannot believe.
Speaker 2: And then I called my boyfriend Torfs, and I was like,
Speaker 2: you've got to come and help me, and he was like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm on my way to work, so i'll swing past
Speaker 2: your office and he goes, all I've got in the car.
Speaker 2: All I've got in the car is like Pooh bags
Speaker 2: from like our dog. And I was like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: all I've got is like plastic wrap from like a
Speaker 2: package that I'd picked up from the post office. So
Speaker 2: I scoop up as much as I can into this
Speaker 2: like plastic like postal bag, and Thorbs rocks up and
Speaker 2: he grabs the rest of it and we managed to
Speaker 2: We ended up being able to get into the building,
Speaker 2: so we kind of like scrubbed it away and like
Speaker 2: managed to clean up the crime scene before anybody saw us.
Speaker 2: And then Thorps was like, all right, I will take
Speaker 2: the rubbish and he's like, I'll drop it into a
Speaker 2: random bin at like a Macason the way to work,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god, you're such a
Speaker 2: life saver. And then when I was telling Ryan this
Speaker 2: story on the pod, he goes, Tony, that has your
Speaker 2: address on it. Because I'd picked up the parcel. You
Speaker 2: might open up the letterbox and someone's mouthed your shit
Speaker 2: back to you. Wait, I think you get away with
Speaker 2: the crime scene. But it's got your full name, address,
Speaker 2: post code page and I'm like, Tony Lodge, like my
Speaker 2: tax file number, like you know, like everything.
Speaker 3: Is on there. The part of this takeaway that I
Speaker 3: can't get over, though, is that your partner is such
Speaker 3: a fucking good guy that he will fish around in
Speaker 3: the garden after your poo and take it with him.
Speaker 2: He will take it away, Like I know.
Speaker 1: This is unfathomable, is what it is?
Speaker 2: Astronomy unreal, It's astronomical.
Speaker 1: That's an astronomical shit, it really is, Tony.
Speaker 3: I you know, I loved interviewing you at the at
Speaker 3: the Perth Show. And one of the parts of your
Speaker 3: story that I find so fascinating because we are in
Speaker 3: the world of it now is that you came from
Speaker 3: a very traditional media background, like you were working in radio,
Speaker 3: but you're working kind of behind the scenes, not on air.
Speaker 1: Can you talk us through a little bit.
Speaker 3: About what that experience was like for you and why
Speaker 3: you left radio and a fiery dumpster to go and
Speaker 3: do podcasting and have your own show.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, it was just an audio producer. And I
Speaker 2: think for when I first started in radio, I was
Speaker 2: literally just making commercials. Like I wasn't even on a show.
Speaker 2: I wasn't even like allowed to be with the famous
Speaker 2: people or anything. Like I was like tacked away in
Speaker 2: the back corner and I was like started doing crossers
Speaker 2: in the morning because I was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: I think I could be really good at this. And
Speaker 2: I was kind of told like in no uncertain terms,
Speaker 2: like you don't really look the part, you don't really
Speaker 2: have the qualifications for this, and it's just not going
Speaker 2: to happen. And I think, like I really am easy
Speaker 2: to accept a no. Like if someone says no, I
Speaker 2: don't really accept that as a negotiation. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's it. Like I kind of just accepted that that
Speaker 2: was all. So I was like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: really happy just being an audio producer and that's fine.
Speaker 2: And then like after moving around, so I was living
Speaker 2: in Perth and then I moved to regional radio in
Speaker 2: Wa and then moved to Sydney for Metro Radio, and
Speaker 2: I was kind of like, okay, like I'm just an
Speaker 2: audio producer and like I'm actually obviously pretty good at
Speaker 2: this because I keep getting these new jobs. And then
Speaker 2: when I moved to Melbourne, I realized like I was
Speaker 2: audio producer on like a breakfast radio show, and I
Speaker 2: was like, God, I'm like twenty far four at the time,
Speaker 2: and I was like and have I kind of peaked
Speaker 2: like is this it? Like I'm already doing the dream job,
Speaker 2: Like there's probably not really much more that I can do.
Speaker 2: And then I was I just really enjoyed comedy. I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed being part of the show. I loved that
Speaker 2: Jason PJ was the show that I was on. I
Speaker 2: loved that they kind of let me have my moments
Speaker 2: with them, and I was like, god, like there's just
Speaker 2: this thrill about getting to be on air and getting
Speaker 2: to go and do things. And so I started going
Speaker 2: and doing their stunts, which is I think the way
Speaker 2: like a lot of people kind of start getting like
Speaker 2: to dip their toes in a little bit, and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I remember going into the bos and
Speaker 2: being like, oh, you know, like I think I'm offering
Speaker 2: a lot to the show, and you know, it's quite
Speaker 2: hard doing my full time job and doing that, and
Speaker 2: like the guys really like it, Like is there any
Speaker 2: way that I could get a pay rise that I
Speaker 2: can kind of manage doing both things, or maybe take
Speaker 2: on a bit of more of an on air roll.
Speaker 2: And they were like no, like, if you like doing
Speaker 2: the on air stuff, you do that for free because
Speaker 2: there's a million people that would kill to do your
Speaker 2: job and they would do it for free. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And I was kind of like, oh, like that's just
Speaker 2: it then. And then Ryan started working at the radio
Speaker 2: station and he was like, oh, have you ever thought
Speaker 2: about being on air? And I was like I tried,
Speaker 2: and they said that I couldn't, like because I just
Speaker 2: accepted that and I was like, that's my lot in
Speaker 2: life and that's fine. And then when we started, he
Speaker 2: was like, why don't we make you up a demo
Speaker 2: to try and get you on the air, And like
Speaker 2: this whole podcast started as me trying to get make
Speaker 2: like a demo to be on the radio. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: started making it and then we like recording the video
Speaker 2: and then we're like, you know what, Like the video
Speaker 2: is pretty good, the audio is pretty good. Should we
Speaker 2: try posting that on TikTok or whatever? And we did,
Speaker 2: and like, oh my god, I'm so glad we did,
Speaker 2: because yeah, I was like able to quit my job
Speaker 2: and now this this is my full time job and
Speaker 2: I get to make this podcast. And I guess the
Speaker 2: biggest thing was that, like, had I just accepted that no,
Speaker 2: and didn't have someone in my corner like Ryan that
Speaker 2: was like no, Like you don't have to accept that,
Speaker 2: Like you can keep fucking going and you can keep trying,
Speaker 2: like I just I wouldn't be here, yeah, and like
Speaker 2: it kind of makes me emotional that I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: I was just so happy to accept that, and like, yeah,
Speaker 2: had I not had a champion like that, I would
Speaker 2: still be there and I would just be like this
Speaker 2: is just it. You know, It's funny because I mean
Speaker 2: I was getting emotional then for you, because it's this
Speaker 2: idea of you're the captain of your own ship and
Speaker 2: we all know it, but sometimes it's not as easy
Speaker 2: to put that into practice, and so you know that now,
Speaker 2: but you would have just kept cruising through life.
Speaker 3: I'm so interested in coming from the backside of radio,
Speaker 3: the back end of radio, and like all the behind
Speaker 3: the scenes as well, And then I think that there's
Speaker 3: a real and I have to be careful with it
Speaker 3: because obviously we work in radio now, but there is
Speaker 3: a real disparity between like on air talent and how
Speaker 3: it works behind the scenes as well.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: What was your experience of being a female working in
Speaker 3: radio and how do you kind of see the opportunities
Speaker 3: that were presented for on air talents to work.
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, like in that most recent
Speaker 2: job that I had, there was a guy doing the
Speaker 2: exact same job as me and who was getting paid more,
Speaker 2: and we had like pretty similar experience, and that like
Speaker 2: there was just no interest in like meeting that pay
Speaker 2: disparity or even like the emotional responsibility that like I
Speaker 2: feel like I took on more than they did. Like
Speaker 2: I felt as if the work kind of came to
Speaker 2: me and we were kind of splitting it up rather
Speaker 2: than us both kind of taking responsibility for our days.
Speaker 2: And that was really hard because you, like, I just
Speaker 2: felt like I was carrying them mental load a lot.
Speaker 2: I felt like I was really caring about the outcomes
Speaker 2: of things and didn't really necessarily feel like other people
Speaker 2: were meeting me in the middle, like with that stuff.
Speaker 2: I guess working behind the scenes like that. There really
Speaker 2: isn't many females in especially in audio production. I think
Speaker 2: it's changing now, but the way that it all works
Speaker 2: is like, I mean, regional radio is not even really
Speaker 2: a thing now, So in terms of people getting up
Speaker 2: in radio like that quote unquote traditional way of like
Speaker 2: going to regional radio and things like that, I think
Speaker 2: that now it will most naturally go to people who
Speaker 2: like already have their foot in the door some way,
Speaker 2: you know, Like and that's not me like trying to
Speaker 2: hang shit on Like you guys obviously you like had
Speaker 2: a huge profile and then you got into radio, but
Speaker 2: like you work fucking hard. I think it's more the
Speaker 2: people that go like, oh, we'll just put them on
Speaker 2: because they're having a bit of a moment and it
Speaker 2: flops and it goes nowhere, and then you go, oh,
Speaker 2: but there's all these people that are trying really hard,
Speaker 2: that are willing to do the work and do that
Speaker 2: job and like, and you guys can agree and attest
Speaker 2: to this as well, like it's actually a hard job
Speaker 2: to do. I think that people were like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: just talk into a microphone, you have fun with your
Speaker 2: best friend. How hard could it be? You know, I
Speaker 2: wanted to be on the radio so bad and they
Speaker 2: wouldn't let me. And so instead of I guess accepting that, like, well,
Speaker 2: we created this job for ourselves. You know. I think
Speaker 2: there's some statistic of like only zero point three of
Speaker 2: podcasts in the world make any money, Yeah, which is
Speaker 2: just insane. So you kind of do have to carve
Speaker 2: your own path and think about like multiple income streams.
Speaker 2: Like it's not as straightforward as you think it is
Speaker 2: just like oh, I make this and then I get paid,
Speaker 2: Like it's just not like that.
Speaker 3: I also find it really fascinating because I mean to
Speaker 3: lift the curtain a little bit on the sort of
Speaker 3: radio podcasting world. If you're working in radio, usually if
Speaker 3: you start a podcast, it has to be housed by
Speaker 3: the radio network that owns podcasts.
Speaker 1: So for example, we work for ARN.
Speaker 3: They have a podcast network called iHeart, even though we
Speaker 3: independently own Life on Cut. As you guys all know
Speaker 3: it's our podcast. We sell our ad space to ARN,
Speaker 3: so it kind of works in like a mutual arrangement there.
Speaker 3: But when you are employed by radio and then you
Speaker 3: start your own podcast, were you independent or did you
Speaker 3: have to be underneath your network? And was there a
Speaker 3: conflict of interest there when things started to go really
Speaker 3: well for you in the world of podcasting, when you've
Speaker 3: been told by your bosses, sorry, you're not on air talent.
Speaker 2: So we were both lucky enough that having been in
Speaker 2: the world a little bit and both having had podcasts before,
Speaker 2: we did have a little bit of knowledge, because, I mean,
Speaker 2: you hear these horror stories about people who have these
Speaker 2: amazing podcasts that then all of a sudden they don't
Speaker 2: own them and they can't move them somewhere else, or
Speaker 2: they can't continue making it and stuff, which is so scary,
Speaker 2: and we had both seen that happen, so we were
Speaker 2: both a bit wise up to that. But like you said,
Speaker 2: we were working for ARN, So our podcast for the
Speaker 2: first year was with iHeartRadio, and we made sure that
Speaker 2: we owned everything. We made sure that it was ours
Speaker 2: and a podcast I'd had before had a feed, and
Speaker 2: so we said we don't need a new feed because
Speaker 2: we're just going to archive those old episodes and start
Speaker 2: like posting Tony what is now Tony? And Ryan onto
Speaker 2: there And so I owned that, like Tony Lodge owned that,
Speaker 2: which probably ended up being quite lucky and worked out
Speaker 2: for us, because yet some people just like don't get
Speaker 2: to keep making their stuff when they want to leave.
Speaker 2: That was only a year, and then after that we
Speaker 2: ended up getting an offer to become exclusive with Spotify,
Speaker 2: which is just the wildest thing that could have even
Speaker 2: ever happened. Like that's just like Spotify knows my name,
Speaker 2: Like what that is so insane. We moved on and
Speaker 2: we joined them, and now we are independent. Our ads
Speaker 2: get sold by acasts the same as you guys, Like
Speaker 2: it's a completely it's our arrangement and whatever, but we
Speaker 2: own everything and it's all ours and like no one
Speaker 2: gets to say what we do or say or have
Speaker 2: on or yeah. So it's like pretty amazing. And you've
Speaker 2: got a big enough audience. This is the thing that
Speaker 2: as another fellow podcaster that like, I look at you
Speaker 2: guys and I admire so much. You have a huge
Speaker 2: audience in America and overseas, and it's really hard in
Speaker 2: this industry to do that and to break into another
Speaker 2: country for those people that might not know what's it. Like,
Speaker 2: Like I saw you guys go over there to America
Speaker 2: recently and do a tour. Is that mind blowing to
Speaker 2: you that you can go to such a foreign country
Speaker 2: and people recognize you, turn up to see you, know
Speaker 2: your name. It's the wildest thing. Like it's just so
Speaker 2: like even you're just saying that then has given me goosebumps.
Speaker 2: Like just the thought of that is is just fucked.
Speaker 2: It's just a fucking yeah. Like it's just so strange,
Speaker 2: like the thought that people are willing to turn up.
Speaker 2: And I think there's just so much content now, Like
Speaker 2: people have so many options. Like when I was growing up,
Speaker 2: there was channel seven, Channel nine and Channel ten and
Speaker 2: like that was it. But now you know, there's so
Speaker 2: many ways that people can get content. So I think
Speaker 2: the thought that all these people around the world are
Speaker 2: like committing half an hour of their precious time to
Speaker 2: us every day. I don't ever want to forget what
Speaker 2: that means when I think about how crucial, like a
Speaker 2: half an hour of my time is at night time
Speaker 2: before bed, I go if I'm putting on a TV show,
Speaker 2: I want it to be really good. And Ryan's and
Speaker 2: new dad. So he's kind of going through that at
Speaker 2: the moment where he's like, I'm not getting a lot
Speaker 2: of sleep, So whatever time I give myself to enjoy something,
Speaker 2: it has to be really, really good. So he listens
Speaker 2: to himself, Yeah, it's like, it's got to be quality.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to listen to our room. He's like,
Speaker 2: I've been listening to laugh Uncut before.
Speaker 3: But also like, you work with one of your closest friends, Like,
Speaker 3: what is your relationship with Ryan like now? After spending
Speaker 3: so many years? And I asked this because there is
Speaker 3: this kind of like interesting thing that happens when you
Speaker 3: come to podcasting and that I'm still in the room. Remember, yeah,
Speaker 3: but you make you make content about your own personal life.
Speaker 3: Your job is to talk about your personal life, and
Speaker 3: the lines can sometimes get really blurred, like what's your
Speaker 3: relationship like now?
Speaker 2: So when we first started doing this, we didn't really
Speaker 2: know each other that well at all, and so it
Speaker 2: was kind of like learning about each other, learning the limit,
Speaker 2: like learning what is cool and what's not and knowing
Speaker 2: as well, oh, I don't know anything about your life
Speaker 2: outside of what we kind of new from working together briefly,
Speaker 2: so we were getting to know each other as co hosts,
Speaker 2: as people and friends. But then also all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you throw in running a business together, and we had
Speaker 2: to shift from these modes of like, well, we're recording
Speaker 2: right now, so we're having bantam, it's all fun, and
Speaker 2: then we go, okay, and now we have to like
Speaker 2: figure out what accounting is and like how to pay tax,
Speaker 2: and that's like the business owner part. And then we're
Speaker 2: also like, okay, well, after all that, it's five o'clock.
Speaker 2: Should we go and have dinner and like try and
Speaker 2: get to know each other a little bit more. I
Speaker 2: guess like it's been like a long distance relationship where
Speaker 2: you kind of like everything is sped up and everything
Speaker 2: is just like ten X because you're like, we need
Speaker 2: to figure out if this is something that we can do,
Speaker 2: we want to do is possible? Do I hate you?
Speaker 2: And I just haven't realized yet we haven't had enough
Speaker 2: time together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like going on a first date.
Speaker 2: Right, You've realized you've got chemistry and band to there,
Speaker 2: but you don't know if you just want to fuck
Speaker 2: or not it's the same thing, like you don't know
Speaker 2: if it's a long relationship or if it's that night
Speaker 2: sent So you fucked and then you're still here. So
Speaker 2: we fucked and we still figured out. But it's kind
Speaker 2: of like we also were just really different people. We
Speaker 2: communicate really differently, and that has been I think a
Speaker 2: bit of a superpower for us, because I had someone that,
Speaker 2: like I was saying earlier, was like would champion me,
Speaker 2: and we'd be like, no, Tony, Like don't fucking take no, frienands,
Speaker 2: like you can do this, and so having that is
Speaker 2: so powerful. But also as someone who's not naturally like that,
Speaker 2: when I need to not be pushed, I'm like, you
Speaker 2: need to fuck off, Like this isn't a time where
Speaker 2: I need to be bucked up and gassed up. I
Speaker 2: need you to shut up and like give me a minute.
Speaker 2: So it was also like learning how to push each
Speaker 2: other and when to push and when to like hang back.
Speaker 1: And give space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, like a relationship. We just kind of fell
Speaker 2: into this, and I mean it's worked out well and
Speaker 2: we have like persevered. But had he been someone I
Speaker 2: just met, like, we probably wouldn't still be friends. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, we probably wouldn't have like stayed in touch,
Speaker 2: and you know, like which is so strange because now
Speaker 2: we're like part of each other's lives in this weird way.
Speaker 2: He's got a baby that I see all the time,
Speaker 2: Like I'm friends with his wife, he's friends with my boyfriend.
Speaker 2: You know, I just can't imagine he came to the
Speaker 2: auction when I bought my house, Like, you know, he's
Speaker 2: just like the most supportive person and I love him
Speaker 2: to death. But it's just crazy that under any normal circumstances,
Speaker 2: like would we still be mates? Like maybe not.
Speaker 1: So interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 3: And it's also interesting because like you can have two
Speaker 3: people that can be so different, But then the thing
Speaker 3: that you share that's really unique and special is the chemistry.
Speaker 3: Like the chemistry that you can have in that dance
Speaker 3: that you can do when you're on air together is
Speaker 3: something that is really hard to find with just anyone.
Speaker 3: Like that's the thing that makes the product so incredible.
Speaker 3: People also forget too that it is a relationship.
Speaker 2: It is a relationship, and people have different communication styles
Speaker 2: like Laura and I do like you guys said, and
Speaker 2: like different things that people need, like words of affirmation,
Speaker 2: or time or whatever.
Speaker 1: Physical touch, yes.
Speaker 2: Always to change she feels me up. But it is
Speaker 2: one hundred percent another relationship that you need to manage,
Speaker 2: just not well, maybe your but it's just not sexual.
Speaker 2: You and Torbes, your partner, have decided we'll ah for
Speaker 2: now child free by choice, which is, you know, it
Speaker 2: is becoming more popular, but it is still against the grain.
Speaker 2: It's still against societal norms. Is that something you always
Speaker 2: knew you wanted to be childless by choice? Is it
Speaker 2: something you've discovered along the way, and is it something
Speaker 2: that has changed slightly since Ryan has become a dad.
Speaker 2: I think the childless thing like when as I was
Speaker 2: growing up, I just always assumed I would have kids,
Speaker 2: because that's just like, so rather than it being a
Speaker 2: choice I would, I just assumed that I would because
Speaker 2: you grow up and you have babies and did that
Speaker 2: classic thing of like, oh, by the time i'm twenty two,
Speaker 2: i'll be married, I'll have three kids. And then you're
Speaker 2: twenty two and you're like doing acid in a warehouse
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh my god, I'm like not doing
Speaker 2: what I thought I was going to be doing. You're
Speaker 2: getting off on a pirate ship. That's about it. Yes, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: that was much younger. But I think it hit a
Speaker 2: point where I was just a bit like, oh, maybe
Speaker 2: I won't do that, and yeah, Teorbes and I like,
Speaker 2: we just moved in together literally that day, and we're
Speaker 2: laying in this beautiful new house. It wasn't actually it
Speaker 2: was like some shit share house and we're laying there together,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, oh, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I'm ever gonna want kids. Well, the worst timing probably
Speaker 2: because we just moved in together, and I was like,
Speaker 2: should this be of something that we talked about? But
Speaker 2: I think I like realized and I just said it
Speaker 2: out loud. I think because us living together was like
Speaker 2: the beginning of our life. And I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: does this mean that you know? Is this the house
Speaker 2: we're going to have kids in? And then I was
Speaker 2: like oh nah, actually, and Teorbes said like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I would rather have you than a baby, so that's
Speaker 2: fine with me, and we check in like once a year.
Speaker 2: I guess it normally ends up being around like if
Speaker 2: somebody in our life has a baby or whatever, I go, oh, like,
Speaker 2: cause we both love kids and we've got nephews that
Speaker 2: we adore and Ryan's baby is in our life now,
Speaker 2: and I just think about all the great things about
Speaker 2: enjoying kids and like love playing and hanging out and
Speaker 2: having them in my life. But I just think all
Speaker 2: the other stuff that we get to enjoy and the
Speaker 2: freedom that we have. I guess that that's just our
Speaker 2: preference for now. But I think everybody just assumes that
Speaker 2: if you don't want kids, like you just hate them,
Speaker 2: and it's it's really not that at all, Like it's
Speaker 2: I probably now as I'm growing up and realizing that
Speaker 2: me not having children is like sacrificing the great parts
Speaker 2: about being a mom and like being a parent, but
Speaker 2: knowing that there's parts of it that I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: very good at and that I wouldn't want to subject
Speaker 2: a child to. Like I'm like, that's not your Like,
Speaker 2: do you get what I mean? Like it's hard to articulate.
Speaker 1: No, I think you're articulating it perfectly.
Speaker 3: And I also think the thing that's really remarkable is
Speaker 3: when you find a partner that's on the same page
Speaker 3: and that you've made that decision together and you're doing
Speaker 3: this together, and you know, we talk about it in
Speaker 3: relationships all the time. That like where the pinch in
Speaker 3: the pool happens, is when one partner wants something that
Speaker 3: the other doesn't. But I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: have children and it's the best thing that they ever do.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people have children because it's the
Speaker 3: thing that they expected that they should do, and it
Speaker 3: hasn't really been a conscious decision. It's just been the
Speaker 3: next thing to do in life. And I don't know
Speaker 3: whether that's the right way to go about it, because
Speaker 3: it's definitely something you can't give back once you've made
Speaker 3: that decision and it's happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny that people go, oh, are you
Speaker 2: sure you don't want kids? Like you can't take that back,
Speaker 2: And I go, I can take that decision back much
Speaker 2: easier than I can take back having a child and
Speaker 2: wishing that I didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 2: I have a question for you because it's something that
Speaker 2: I think about all the time because I'm the same
Speaker 2: as you, where I shouldn't say the same as you,
Speaker 2: but I often think I don't know if it's for me,
Speaker 2: and it's the path I want to go down, But
Speaker 2: I'm getting to crunch time, you know, I'll be thirty
Speaker 2: eight this year when I'm getting married, but my partner
Speaker 2: I talk about it all the time. Do you ever
Speaker 2: mourn the decision to not have kids? And what I
Speaker 2: mean by that is you so confidently then say like,
Speaker 2: it's not for me. And sometimes I'll say that to myself.
Speaker 2: I'll be like, Okay, I think it's not going to
Speaker 2: be for me. But then I get really sad thinking
Speaker 2: about the fact that it's not for me, and I
Speaker 2: try and picture my future, and I'm like, it makes
Speaker 2: me upset to think that a child's not going to
Speaker 2: be my future, even if I've made the decision. It's
Speaker 2: really complex emotions because you can feel comfortable in what
Speaker 2: your decision is, but then I guess it's the unknown
Speaker 2: of how you're going to feel in ten, fifteen, twenty years.
Speaker 2: So do you ever sort of sit in that feeling
Speaker 2: of being like, I know it's not for me now,
Speaker 2: but fuck that makes me sad in a way, Probably
Speaker 2: less about it making me sad, because You're right, it's
Speaker 2: really complex. But I think where I've landed with it
Speaker 2: is like what I was saying, like, I probably now
Speaker 2: consider it I'm sacrificing the great parts about potentially like
Speaker 2: being a mom and having a baby and like experiencing
Speaker 2: that love and joy and all of those things. Like
Speaker 2: I'm sacrificing that for you know, the fact that maybe
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be that good at it, or maybe it
Speaker 2: wouldn't really be for me, or maybe I do prefer
Speaker 2: my freedom. I think, Yeah, what it comes down to
Speaker 2: is that, like I don't hate kids. It's not like
Speaker 2: I don't want them. I'm just saying, like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I think that it's not the right choice for me
Speaker 2: or for us. And whether that makes it better, I
Speaker 2: don't really know. But there are I think, especially like
Speaker 2: around the holidays and whatever, I go, oh, having kids
Speaker 2: would be so special because you think about how much
Speaker 2: like kids love Christmas and kids love stuff, and you
Speaker 2: just think about spoiling them and whatever. And then I go, yeah,
Speaker 2: but so what once a year, I am cool with it.
Speaker 2: But you know, like, and I think that's almost like
Speaker 2: how I have realized that like the times I feel
Speaker 2: sad about it are like minuscule compared to the times
Speaker 2: that I feel really comfortable with the decision. And so
Speaker 2: I feel like what you'll say, like that to me
Speaker 2: sounds like you know exactly what you need and one
Speaker 2: in your life because if it gives you that like
Speaker 2: gutt or feeling after deciding, like I feel like you
Speaker 2: know exactly what you need?
Speaker 1: Yeah for you, Yeah, I mean curing you guys.
Speaker 3: Unpack that you asked the question, brit I was like,
Speaker 3: I feel like the response would be very different. I
Speaker 3: feel like most people who've made that decision are at
Speaker 3: peace with the decision, and when they've gotten to that place,
Speaker 3: it's like, well, it's not a thing that creates distress
Speaker 3: or upset because it's like why would it.
Speaker 2: It's what I want, which is worse because I don't
Speaker 2: have peace. Yeah, but that's what That's what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like even the way that you ask that question, then
Speaker 2: you're like, don't you just feel so fucking devastated about it?
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, paid I don't like and yeah, that's
Speaker 2: like it's just as simple as that, and it's I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not fucking simple. While I say that it's so complex,
Speaker 2: it's like the craziest thought that I'm like, hang on,
Speaker 2: if I'm put on this earth to like repopulate it,
Speaker 2: I'm like not doing my one thing that I don't
Speaker 2: really know what that means.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think you do, and I think you've
Speaker 3: explained it perfectly, and I do think that there is
Speaker 3: also a lot of like, when someone has made the choice,
Speaker 3: you've got to explain why, which is crazy, you know,
Speaker 3: And I know we asked the questions, but it's because the
Speaker 3: conversation is not had as frequently as the choice to
Speaker 3: have children. No, no one's like, why do you want
Speaker 3: to have children? Talk to me about how you came
Speaker 3: to the decision to have kids, just expect nobody ever
Speaker 3: asked that. But the alternate seems like something that needs
Speaker 3: to be queried. And I think that there are so
Speaker 3: many women now who are making this decision. And the
Speaker 3: reason why we talk about a lot on this podcast
Speaker 3: is because it gives voice to alternate ways of living life.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean that one is better or everything
Speaker 3: is just it's just different. You've spoken a bit, I
Speaker 3: mean the book that you wrote I don't need therapy
Speaker 3: and other lies I've told myself. There's so much in
Speaker 3: this that you unpacked, but I would love to know.
Speaker 3: And one thing we're gonna talk about, which we spoke
Speaker 3: about live show, is your mom and when your mom
Speaker 3: passed away, But then writing about it and putting that
Speaker 3: out into the world and having everybody else tell you
Speaker 3: their experiences of grief as well. What has it been
Speaker 3: like to share so personally the massive grief and coming
Speaker 3: to terms of what that grief meant about losing your mum.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of people that message me and
Speaker 2: go like, oh, thank you so much for sharing that,
Speaker 2: or I've just read your book, thank you for sharing
Speaker 2: the way that you did about your mum, because I
Speaker 2: feel so much less alone now. I don't think that
Speaker 2: people realize what that gives me too, because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I've just put myself out there in this crazy way,
Speaker 2: and I'm talking about these feelings that people either haven't
Speaker 2: experienced yet or may never experience, depending on their relationship
Speaker 2: with people in their lives. But I don't think people
Speaker 2: realize that reflecting back to me and saying, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it made me feel so much less learn I'm like,
Speaker 2: thank God that I'm not the only person feeling this
Speaker 2: in a good and a bad way, because obviously I'm
Speaker 2: heartbroken when I can relate to people in that way.
Speaker 2: But I think people think like, oh, well, you wrote
Speaker 2: it down, so you must feel really confident, or you
Speaker 2: must know everything. I'm like, I really don't, and having
Speaker 2: the freedom to write down all my feelings was amazing
Speaker 2: and really cathartic. And I mean it doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be in a book that goes on to be published
Speaker 2: and become a SOLA and an award writning book, Like
Speaker 2: I think it like really showed to me like the
Speaker 2: importance of journaling for yourself, without judgment for what you've written,
Speaker 2: and without thinking that somebody else is going to read it,
Speaker 2: writing for yourself, and that's kind of what that book is.
Speaker 2: It's like amazing that there's this version of my mum
Speaker 2: that lives in the world. I think that is one
Speaker 2: of the coolest parts. That she's not here, but people
Speaker 2: get to meet her because I've shown them her. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I found one thing you spoke about really interesting that
Speaker 2: after your mom passed away and you were only nineteen,
Speaker 2: so you were so young, but that you felt like
Speaker 2: you couldn't talk about her after Can you elaborate a
Speaker 2: little bit on that. I found that I was at
Speaker 2: this age where you know, people were still living at
Speaker 2: home and things like that, and they would I would
Speaker 2: be talking to someone, they'd be like, oh, hang on, sorry,
Speaker 2: my Mom's just calling me or oh I was talking
Speaker 2: to Mom the other day about X y Z or oh,
Speaker 2: hang on, like I've got to go, Like my Mum's
Speaker 2: picking me up in fifteen minutes whatever. And I was like,
Speaker 2: remember just feeling this like hot rage and jealousy that
Speaker 2: people could just like so easily drop their mum into
Speaker 2: a conversation. And aside from the fact that she wasn't
Speaker 2: with me anymore, the casual nature of talking about her
Speaker 2: and being able to just like bring her up or
Speaker 2: mention her just fell away. And I think that there's
Speaker 2: just like so much stigma around showing your feelings. You know,
Speaker 2: if you say that you're struggling, you just are begging
Speaker 2: for attention. If you say that you're happy, you're rubbing
Speaker 2: it in people's face. If you say that you're grieving,
Speaker 2: people like, oh, get over it, like change the record.
Speaker 2: And so I felt like there was just no way
Speaker 2: that I could ever bring up my mom without it
Speaker 2: seeming like, I don't know, attention seeking or things like that.
Speaker 2: And so that was the hardest part that I was like,
Speaker 2: this crazy thing has just happened to me. My favorite
Speaker 2: person in the world is gone, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I just have to like shut up about it. And
Speaker 2: people all of a sudden aren't being like, oh, so,
Speaker 2: what was your mum's favorite food or whatever? Like you know,
Speaker 2: nobody's asking that because how strange.
Speaker 3: But also no one asks it because there's this real
Speaker 3: fear and when it comes to grief, there's this real
Speaker 3: fear around upsetting the other person. So instead of asking
Speaker 3: questions that would allow for that person's their greatest loss,
Speaker 3: the person that they love the most, to continue on
Speaker 3: in conversation, we avoid it. And we avoid it because
Speaker 3: we're like, oh, I don't want them, I don't want
Speaker 3: to make them think about it. But the thing is,
Speaker 3: you're thinking about it all the time anyway. It's not
Speaker 3: like it's very far from your brain or very far
Speaker 3: from your thoughts.
Speaker 2: I mean, what's a piece of advice that you would
Speaker 2: give people listening right now surrounding that, because we speak
Speaker 2: to different people all the time where they say that
Speaker 2: they're like, I would love people to continue the conversation
Speaker 2: or ask me how I am when I'm going through
Speaker 2: my biggest loss.
Speaker 1: What would you tell people?
Speaker 2: I would love to cancel saying sorry because being like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: my mum's just passed away, people going oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: I go, well, you didn't kill her, and I feel
Speaker 2: like there's all of a sudden, this like power dynamic
Speaker 2: shift of I am feeling heartbroken about whatever, whatever it
Speaker 2: may be, and then you go I'm sorry, and I go, oh,
Speaker 2: it's okay, and all of a sudden, like I'm comforting
Speaker 2: you because you feel uncomfortable. I just kept found people
Speaker 2: just kept saying they were sorry, and I was like,
Speaker 2: you don't need to be sorry, like you didn't give
Speaker 2: her brain cancer, you didn't do this to me, you
Speaker 2: didn't do this to her. And so the path I
Speaker 2: now go down is that fucking sucks because all you want, well,
Speaker 2: all I wanted was someone to just be like that
Speaker 2: really sucks, and there's nothing I can say, but that's
Speaker 2: really shit because you just want people to acknowledge your pain.
Speaker 2: And I think that this is true for so many
Speaker 2: situations in our lives, like we just want to be heard.
Speaker 2: We just want people to be like, you know what,
Speaker 2: that really sucks that that happened. Whether you're worse thing
Speaker 2: today was that you missed the bus, or that you
Speaker 2: dropped your berries and go get on your T shirt
Speaker 2: or that, like you know your mom is dead, like
Speaker 2: whether it is one extreme to the other, Like everybody's
Speaker 2: worst thing is their worst thing, and they just want
Speaker 2: to be heard. Like people just want you to acknowledge that,
Speaker 2: like they must be having a shit day because XYZ happened.
Speaker 3: We struggle so much with death, like we struggle so
Speaker 3: much with grief, and like we don't like the discomfort
Speaker 3: of potentially upsetting someone else. And it's a very Western
Speaker 3: culture thing, but we dance around grief. And I think
Speaker 3: one of the things I loved about your book and
Speaker 3: something you just mentioned in terms of the casualness, I
Speaker 3: also like how you speak about grief in a casual
Speaker 3: way and hear me out when you're like, hey, this
Speaker 3: really bad things just happened, but I got to get
Speaker 3: up in the morning and make toast or I'm watching TV.
Speaker 3: These things feel normal, but nothing feels normal at the
Speaker 3: same time.
Speaker 1: And it's this, it's this really like life goes on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it does.
Speaker 3: And I think for a lot of people, they around
Speaker 3: you for like two months or even less. Sometimes you know,
Speaker 3: you get them, you get the messages, you get like
Speaker 3: you know, some niceties, and then a lot of people
Speaker 3: you don't hear from anymore, you know, and it's like
Speaker 3: that doesn't just stop for you.
Speaker 1: You're still left in the grief.
Speaker 3: You're still working through it, like it's such an ongoing process.
Speaker 3: And I think people, unless I've experienced themselves, they don't
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 2: And I think that was another really challenging thing for
Speaker 2: me because I was nineteen, like you said, Britt, and
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was going on, and neither did
Speaker 2: any of my friends. Like no, I didn't know anybody
Speaker 2: that had lost a parent or anything. So all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, I felt like such a burden on all
Speaker 2: of my friends, and I just felt like they all
Speaker 2: pulled away from me because again, like they didn't know
Speaker 2: how to sit in that discomfort, and they didn't know
Speaker 2: what they were doing, and you know, they were going
Speaker 2: to Europe and drinking and having fun, and I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm at home because I've left UNI so that I
Speaker 2: could care for my mom. There's so many things that
Speaker 2: as you grow up and you learn stuff, you can
Speaker 2: apply it, but no one that I and you would
Speaker 2: learned anything yet, Like yeah, it was just fuck, we
Speaker 2: still haven't. But you know, you just don't have the
Speaker 2: like emotional maturity to try and talk to somebody about that.
Speaker 2: So I felt like all of my friends ignored me.
Speaker 2: I felt like they ignored what was going on and
Speaker 2: just thought that I would be able to figure it out,
Speaker 2: and I didn't. Like, I don't think of it. I
Speaker 2: don't have an ounce of pride in me that I
Speaker 2: handled it well. I don't think I did.
Speaker 1: What's your relationship with those friends? Like now?
Speaker 2: I don't really have a lot of friends from that
Speaker 2: period now, like because it was a lot of school
Speaker 2: friends that I still kind of saw and whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I think that mostly now it's like uni friends
Speaker 2: or friends that I went on to like meet working
Speaker 2: in radio or whatever, just because it was just too
Speaker 2: hard for them and it was too hard for me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: sometimes you need to, I hate to say it, start fresh,
Speaker 2: but sometimes like having attachments to different parts of your
Speaker 2: life is not what you need. Having said that, how
Speaker 2: has grief evolved for you now? When you're hitting these
Speaker 2: like huge milestones and you have huge successes and like
Speaker 2: you said, you've written best selling books and you've got
Speaker 2: hit podcasts, what's it like experiencing that where you still
Speaker 2: grieve your mum and your loss but also you've just
Speaker 2: gotten on with it at the same time, Like I
Speaker 2: imagine that is a very conflicting feeling. Yeah, Like I
Speaker 2: just wish I could tell her because I just know
Speaker 2: that she'd be so happy, Like I just know that
Speaker 2: she would be so so pumped for me, and I
Speaker 2: know that she would love it. And I know that
Speaker 2: every morning i'd get a text at five point thirty
Speaker 2: being like, all loved what you said about this today
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Like, I just know that she would
Speaker 2: love it, and I know that she would love Ryan
Speaker 2: as well, you know, And there's just so many parts
Speaker 2: of my life that Yeah, like I've now got a
Speaker 2: partner who I've been with for ten years who didn't
Speaker 2: meet her, Like I've been with him for so long,
Speaker 2: and that was after she died. Like how how are
Speaker 2: those two things on the same timeline. Yeah, Like it's
Speaker 2: just so wild to me, and it just makes me
Speaker 2: so fucking sad. Like, but I'd say that the way
Speaker 2: that I've grown with the grief, like they say that
Speaker 2: the grief doesn't get smaller, your life just kind of
Speaker 2: learns to surround it. And I think that there's probably
Speaker 2: some guilt for me associated with like having this amazing
Speaker 2: life where I laugh every day and I don't laugh
Speaker 2: all day every day, but I laugh every day, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, so you don't care about your mum.
Speaker 2: And there's some times where I feel really guilty that
Speaker 2: I have this great life when well, how dare you? Like,
Speaker 2: oh so you reckon you're so sad about your mum,
Speaker 2: But like you go and you enjoy your life. But
Speaker 2: I think that I've just learned that like my life
Speaker 2: is for me, it's not for anybody else, And it
Speaker 2: comes and goes in waves. And there's parts of my
Speaker 2: life that make me really sad because I think about
Speaker 2: my mom and I wish that she was here. And
Speaker 2: then like in the car on the way here this morning,
Speaker 2: our song played on my Spotify and I had a
Speaker 2: boogiy because she really loved that song, you know. So
Speaker 2: I think it's also just, yeah, the waves of knowing
Speaker 2: that I'm allowed to be happy, I'm allowed to enjoy
Speaker 2: my life, and I give myself permission to enjoy my life,
Speaker 2: and I give myself permission to be sad because two
Speaker 2: things can be true at once. Yeah, do you think
Speaker 2: there is any link tenuous or not for you with
Speaker 2: your decision not to have kids to losing your mom
Speaker 2: and going through that when you were almost still a kid.
Speaker 2: I don't actually know. I think like my mom loved
Speaker 2: being a mom, Like her biggest achievement was that she
Speaker 2: loved all of us and she looked after all of us,
Speaker 2: and like, so there's four kids in my family. I've
Speaker 2: got three siblings, and yeah, she just loved it. And
Speaker 2: I know that that was just her biggest achievement. I guess.
Speaker 2: So there's parts of me that's like, oh, but for me,
Speaker 2: like my career is such a huge thing, Like I
Speaker 2: don't want my kids to feel like they're competing vuying
Speaker 2: for my attention for my job, you know, which like
Speaker 2: wouldn't be the case, but maybe I wouldn't be able
Speaker 2: to juggle that. I don't know. I don't really think
Speaker 2: that there's I mean, somewhere there might be a link,
Speaker 2: but I think sorry, might need to go back to
Speaker 2: therapy for that one. I probably should have last like, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: that's a that's a tough one. Nah, But I think
Speaker 2: it is actually a really good question because they're probably somewhere.
Speaker 2: Is I also just think I love having money, and
Speaker 2: I've heard that parents don't have a lot of money.
Speaker 1: It's kids are expensive, they are there.
Speaker 2: What's the reaction like, because I want to say this
Speaker 2: now because I just laughed when we're talking about grief,
Speaker 2: and I don't want people take that the wrong way,
Speaker 2: but you handle grief with humor.
Speaker 1: What's the reaction like?
Speaker 2: Mainly when you use these I mean comedic timing surrounding
Speaker 2: talking about your mother's death normally pretty split crowd. I
Speaker 2: feel like some people just love it and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: you have a dead parent a they go, yeah. There
Speaker 2: was like a video that went viral not that long ago,
Speaker 2: and it sees two sisters and they're sitting at the
Speaker 2: table and they're laughing because one of them did was
Speaker 2: pregnant at their mum's funeral and like, do you remember
Speaker 2: this video? Like we've seen it and they lose it
Speaker 2: and they're like they're laughing and they're like, so I
Speaker 2: just want to say, Mom, I'm so sorry for doing
Speaker 2: this at your funeral, but like I couldn't help it,
Speaker 2: and they're like laughing, and I was like, here's a
Speaker 2: good social experiment. I'm like reading the comments and there's
Speaker 2: all these people like, oh, you just you know your
Speaker 2: mum better? Than anybody of course, like you know what
Speaker 2: she would like and this is so funny and I like,
Speaker 2: thanks for the laugh. Then there's people are like, this
Speaker 2: is so disrespectful and how dare you? And I just
Speaker 2: think I'm actually allowed to say it because it's my
Speaker 2: lived experience. Would I say that on behalf of anybody else,
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, But for me, that's what makes sense. And
Speaker 2: for me, I know that my mom would love it.
Speaker 2: I know that she would be laughing. I know that
Speaker 2: she would think it's so funny that she's part of
Speaker 2: my life still because I get to laugh and joke
Speaker 2: about her. And I don't think that people understand how
Speaker 2: powerful that connection is, like getting to laugh and joke
Speaker 2: about my mum when normally, like I'm expecting, what you're
Speaker 2: telling me is you can only talk about that if
Speaker 2: you're sad, Like the only the associated feeling with your
Speaker 2: grief should be sadness and embarrassment and like wanting to
Speaker 2: hide yourself away and like feel ashamed. I'm not ashamed
Speaker 2: to have grief. I'm not ashamed to like want to
Speaker 2: laugh about something that happened to me. It's my experience.
Speaker 2: I can do what I want with it. You know
Speaker 2: I'm not hurting anybody.
Speaker 3: We had a similar experience recently and I'm going to
Speaker 3: laugh saying the story again, but fuck it didn't go
Speaker 3: to plan. My grandparents were like real parental figures for me,
Speaker 3: Like I grew up with my grandparents, I live with them,
Speaker 3: and we've waited to scatter my grandparents' ashes together. They
Speaker 3: were married for sixty seven years and Nan passed away. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it was really sweet, but scattering ashes is not sweet.
Speaker 3: And the plume of dust that covered everyone that was
Speaker 3: there was not.
Speaker 2: Sweet when it shouldn't have gone.
Speaker 3: Down my top and there's all these people that look
Speaker 3: at like it was just it was like a comedy show.
Speaker 3: It was like something that you would expect to be on,
Speaker 3: like a black comedy. It was not funny, and it
Speaker 3: was so funny at the same time. And I had
Speaker 3: this real moment where we were telling the story in
Speaker 3: the podcast and I was like, Fuck, someone's going to
Speaker 3: be offended. Someone is going to be offended because this
Speaker 3: wasn't their version of scattering their loved ones ashes.
Speaker 2: And also because we leant in.
Speaker 3: And we laughed and we made jokes, and I was like,
Speaker 3: and you know, like for us, yes, it should have
Speaker 3: been a very reverend day, but everyone was laughing. And
Speaker 3: it's because I know Papa wouldn't have given a shit.
Speaker 3: He would have been like, Haha, that one's for you.
Speaker 3: I know you can take that, Laura. When I was
Speaker 3: like covered from head to toe and ash.
Speaker 2: He was down her pants, it was everywhere.
Speaker 3: But yeah, grief is complex, and like there's moments where
Speaker 3: it flows you, and then there's moments where you do
Speaker 3: find the funny in it, and it's not the funny
Speaker 3: in the grief, but it's just the funny and the
Speaker 3: absolute absurdity of how extreme.
Speaker 1: The emotions are.
Speaker 3: Totally and I think that anyone who's experienced it will
Speaker 3: absolutely be able to understand that part of it.
Speaker 1: I would love to know.
Speaker 3: And I mean, you know, we touched on a little
Speaker 3: bit around the successes and also like how life takes
Speaker 3: a different path and then it continues and you have
Speaker 3: these things that happen after the person you love passes away,
Speaker 3: but one of those things being your partner of ten years.
Speaker 3: How did you guys meet and you know, how do
Speaker 3: you find a man who's willing to come and pick
Speaker 3: up your shit on a Monday?
Speaker 2: You don't really matter to pick up your ship.
Speaker 1: He would.
Speaker 2: That wouldn't never, Ben would? He would? He would. Ben
Speaker 2: would hold the bag for me while I shat in it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I reckon like he'd hold it out. He might. Actually,
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask him once his podcast.
Speaker 1: Test him.
Speaker 2: That's healthy, test him. Yeah, give him the situation. What
Speaker 2: would would you a no, hypothetically, babe, hypothetically? Yeah, listen
Speaker 2: to today's episode and let me know what you would do.
Speaker 2: We met at UNI actually not very original, but like
Speaker 2: very casual and normal. I guess. We were studying sound
Speaker 2: engineering together and he was like a year below me,
Speaker 2: so we kind of worked on a couple of like
Speaker 2: projects together and whatever, and he like lived on my
Speaker 2: way home. We would be in the theater till you know,
Speaker 2: like eleven or twelve o'clock, and I'd be like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: what are you going to do? Catch the bas like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'll drop you off. And we kind of just like
Speaker 2: got to know each other and it was a really
Speaker 2: just easy person to talk to. And at that time,
Speaker 2: like my mum was alive, but she was really sick,
Speaker 2: and so we kind of talked. I remember like vividly
Speaker 2: this one conversation being like, oh, no, I'm so mysterious.
Speaker 2: And he's like, you are the least mysterious person like
Speaker 2: I've ever met in my life. And I was like, nah,
Speaker 2: like you don't know me, you know, like I'm just
Speaker 2: a snotty, like nineteen year old and he's just like, nah,
Speaker 2: I know that, like your mum's about to die and
Speaker 2: that you're probably gonna leave UNI. And I was just like, okay, cool,
Speaker 2: so you have been listening to what I was saying.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, like she passed away and I left
Speaker 2: UNI and then I rejoined and I ended up being
Speaker 2: in his year, so I got dropped down. I had
Speaker 2: to do second year again kind of thing anyway, and yeah,
Speaker 2: so we just kept dropping him home and you know,
Speaker 2: like all of these things, we just got to know
Speaker 2: each other really well, and we had so much in common.
Speaker 2: But there was also so much that he knew about
Speaker 2: that I didn't know about. And it was like the
Speaker 2: exact relationship I needed. And I don't mean romantic relationship necessarily,
Speaker 2: but he was the person that I needed in that time,
Speaker 2: Like he was just really caring and willing to listen
Speaker 2: and like funny and wouldn't let me wallow in my bullshit,
Speaker 2: but also let me wallow my bullshit when I needed to.
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to have people that really
Speaker 2: know what you need and can assess the situation and
Speaker 2: not just like write things off like it's not like, oh,
Speaker 2: well last week he cried and I did this, so
Speaker 2: this is what I'm going to do again. He's a
Speaker 2: really thoughtful, really caring person, and I think I just
Speaker 2: really needed someone that could hear me out. And yeah,
Speaker 2: and then we actually just like started sleeping together, and
Speaker 2: we was sleeping together for like nine months to a
Speaker 2: year or something, and then I was like, I actually
Speaker 2: really like you, will you go out with me? And
Speaker 2: he was like okay. And it was the most awkward
Speaker 2: thing because then I was like, cool, I've got to
Speaker 2: go to my shift at Colt's like with a boyfriendly,
Speaker 2: Like I've got to get to the Delian. So I
Speaker 2: asked this boy out and then I'm like cool, bye,
Speaker 2: like I've got to go shave some ham. Ah good,
Speaker 2: you knew him when your mom was still here, but
Speaker 2: you went romantic until after she'd gone. So was there
Speaker 2: a part of you that did she ever know about
Speaker 2: him as a friend? Like? Ah, right, because he was
Speaker 2: just one of the boys I went to UNI with
Speaker 2: and there was like two girls in our course, so
Speaker 2: there was it was mostly boys. So it wasn't like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's a boy in Uni. It was just like yeah,
Speaker 2: like all the guys, you know, Like it was just
Speaker 2: it was nothing. So nah, she didn't know about him,
Speaker 2: which is it's it's shame, Like I'm really sad she
Speaker 2: didn't get to meet him, because I think that they
Speaker 2: would get along really well. Tobes has got like a
Speaker 2: really dry sense of humor, and so does my mom,
Speaker 2: So I think that they would have You know, when
Speaker 2: you hear about those couples where the boyfriend is on
Speaker 2: her mom's side, they would gang up against me. I think, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then what is next for you? Because I feel
Speaker 2: like you've ticked so many boxes and kicked so many goals,
Speaker 2: Like where do you dream of going individually? Because personally
Speaker 2: I see you on like a comedy circuit, that's what
Speaker 2: I see. I think you're so funny and you're so brilliant.
Speaker 2: But where do you see yourself individually? And Tony in right,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just really want to be happy.
Speaker 2: I just really want to keep doing things that make
Speaker 2: me happy. And I think rather than try and come
Speaker 2: up with what that might look like, I think that
Speaker 2: in this kind of job, you can't really ever predict it,
Speaker 2: Like things just come up and you have to say
Speaker 2: yes or no. And I actually, like a few years ago,
Speaker 2: wrote down this list of non negotiables, which I really
Speaker 2: fucking recommend if you have never ever sat down and
Speaker 2: being really honest with yourself about non negotiables for your life,
Speaker 2: I recommend it. Five things that, like, before you die,
Speaker 2: you know that you need to do, rather than a
Speaker 2: bucket list of like I'd love to get these things done.
Speaker 2: Five things that you will not leave this earth without achieving.
Speaker 1: What were your non negotiables?
Speaker 2: One of them was being on a billboard, which I did.
Speaker 3: Fucking that is so good, And I will not leave
Speaker 3: this earth unless I'm on a billboard.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because I've been pushing for a billboard,
Speaker 2: Laura to Laura, I mean, the thing about a billboard
Speaker 2: is that the billboard doesn't do anything, but how good's
Speaker 2: the photo of you in front of the billboard?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: That was one of them. And actually the last thing
Speaker 2: that I have to tick off or excuse me aside
Speaker 2: from living overseas. That's one of my non negotiables. The
Speaker 2: last thing that I'm going to kick off actually this
Speaker 2: year is hosting family Christmas in my own house. Oh nice,
Speaker 2: you're so cute. I love you. So we are Toms
Speaker 2: and I. We're hosting Christmas at our house. My sister
Speaker 2: and her husband and their boys are coming. We're cooking,
Speaker 2: we're doing everything, and I am so thrilled. And I
Speaker 2: think that the most exciting part about that is that
Speaker 2: It's been a really, really really long time since I've
Speaker 2: had a goal that wasn't work related. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's really amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 3: And it's so easy to have work related goals and
Speaker 3: not have those like family moments.
Speaker 2: Because they just feel so tangible, like a work thing
Speaker 2: you're working at it every day, whereas I think I've
Speaker 2: just like left myself behind a little bit. And so
Speaker 2: I'm really really excited to do that. Yeah. Like I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm fucking pumped. Where do you want to live overseas? Oh?
Speaker 2: I don't care, just that experience. Yeah, I just want
Speaker 2: to know that I've done it. Ryan and I actually
Speaker 2: at the moment are very obsessed with like TikTok BALI
Speaker 2: real estate. Like I don't know if you guys get
Speaker 2: those videos in your algorithm twenty five dollars, yes, and
Speaker 2: so it's like this amazing villa and it's like live
Speaker 2: here for six dollars a day and you go, oh okay,
Speaker 2: Like so we're really obsessed with that at the moment.
Speaker 2: So maybe BALI, I don't know. I don't really care
Speaker 2: as long as it's somewhere that my French bulldog can come.
Speaker 2: And that's basically my only requirement.
Speaker 1: And you've got two more are the other two bucket
Speaker 1: list things.
Speaker 2: So I had also one of them was to actually
Speaker 2: just be famous. I didn't really know what that looks like.
Speaker 2: I love that you said that because people feel like
Speaker 2: they can't say that. People feel like if they say
Speaker 2: out loud, I want to be famous, especially in Australia,
Speaker 2: in the Australian landscape, we hate feeling like anyone takes
Speaker 2: ownership of what they want, especially something that is about
Speaker 2: being famous. But I love that you just like I
Speaker 2: want that. I want people to know who I am
Speaker 2: for whatever I do.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's the being famous for what it's like,
Speaker 3: the having the what you know, like, do you want
Speaker 3: to be famous because you were that girl who shut
Speaker 3: on the street. You made it to the news, Like,
Speaker 3: or do you want to be famous for the thing
Speaker 3: that you're proud of?
Speaker 1: Like, there's different types of fame, and.
Speaker 2: I think that's something that I unpacked as I kind
Speaker 2: of got a bit older, and that it wasn't really
Speaker 2: the fame part of it, but it was the fame
Speaker 2: was like the avenue of doing a job that I loved,
Speaker 2: because you know, you can't like be a singer or
Speaker 2: be a dancer or be a comedian or whatever if
Speaker 2: there's no audience like that just then is a hobby
Speaker 2: and not like your full time job, Like that can't
Speaker 2: be your full time job if there aren't people watching
Speaker 2: you and paying to see you or whatever. So I
Speaker 2: think that the fame was just the easiest way to
Speaker 2: be like, well, if I'm famous, it means that I'm
Speaker 2: doing something.
Speaker 1: That I love and I'm good at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and I'm probably doing like a very non
Speaker 2: traditional job, you know. So that's what it looks like
Speaker 2: for me in the end, was that it meant that
Speaker 2: I could, yeah do a job that I was really
Speaker 2: good at and that I loved, and that made me
Speaker 2: really happy where you've ticked that off because people know
Speaker 2: your name. Spotify knows your name. It's astronomical, it's acually real.
Speaker 3: Tony is such a joy and we love I mean
Speaker 3: where it was a long time coming, like we said,
Speaker 3: a year of waiting to get you on the podcast.
Speaker 3: We absolutely adore you and everything that you guys have achieved.
Speaker 3: We love the podcast like Tony and Ryan. If you
Speaker 3: haven't got to listen to it yet, go give it
Speaker 3: a listen, but also get around to everything else that
Speaker 3: Tony does, because you are genuinely just one of the
Speaker 3: most and I hate the word authentic, but that is
Speaker 3: exactly what you are. You're one of the most authentic people.
Speaker 3: And yeah, you're a joy to speak to.
Speaker 2: We heard on the podcast the other day that you
Speaker 2: guys took some I shouldn't say took some. You use
Speaker 2: some content from the lifelun Cut discussion group and you're
Speaker 2: having a little laugh about it. We absolutely love hearing that.
Speaker 2: I love to know that you guys, especially Ryan's lurking
Speaker 2: in our Facebook discussion group. I know I get tagged
Speaker 2: in stuff sometimes and I have a little nosy of
Speaker 2: whatever people have tagged me, and I love it.
Speaker 1: Wait, what have you been tagged in?
Speaker 2: People just tag me in random stuff. I think that
Speaker 2: there's like a bit of a thrill in being like
Speaker 2: she's in this group because I'm also in this Oh
Speaker 2: my god, this is hell dark, but I think you'll
Speaker 2: like it. I'm also in this like dead mum discussion group,
Speaker 2: and I get tagged in stuff all the time. People
Speaker 2: are like, oh my god, you know that girl who's
Speaker 2: got a dead mum, she's in here, and then just
Speaker 2: like tag me, like tag Tony.
Speaker 1: That's awful.
Speaker 2: It's awful, but it's wholesome too.
Speaker 1: You know, you found your group.
Speaker 2: It is really lovely and the connection, as we were saying,
Speaker 2: like it just really beats everything else that I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, like you go, oh my god, it would
Speaker 2: be so great to get to do all this stuff,
Speaker 2: and then you go, wow, there's actually all this other
Speaker 2: stuff that is so amazing about this kind of job,
Speaker 2: and like reaching people that you just never could have
Speaker 2: dreamed would ever hear what you had to say in
Speaker 2: the best way.
Speaker 1: It's so true. We absolutely agree.
Speaker 2: You're an angel. Thanks Lendon. I love you guys. Thank
Speaker 2: you for having me.
Speaker 1: Thanks Tony, I thank you.
Speaker 2: There were four bays stoking