WEBVTT - Laughing Through Grief with Toni Lodge

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<v Speaker 1>This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life

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<v Speaker 2>on Cut. I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and today's guest

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<v Speaker 2>is one that I am so excited about. Now she

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<v Speaker 2>may or may not need an intro, but if you

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<v Speaker 2>happen to have come to one of our Life Uncut

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<v Speaker 2>Live show tours last year, Tony was one of our

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<v Speaker 2>guests at the Perth Show and she didn't disappoint. She's

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<v Speaker 2>an author, she's a writer, and she's one half of

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<v Speaker 2>the astronomical podcast, the Tony and Ryan Podcast, which is

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<v Speaker 2>huge in Australia but even bigger overseas. She's one of

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<v Speaker 2>the funniest people I have met.

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<v Speaker 1>No pressure.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the podcast, Tony Long. Oh my god. I

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<v Speaker 2>also love the use of the term astronomical. You just

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<v Speaker 2>do not hear that enough. I throw that term around

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<v Speaker 2>like this is no Tomorrow, because it's like it really

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<v Speaker 2>hits home. When someone says astronomical, You're like, wow, they

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<v Speaker 2>mess be really good.

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<v Speaker 3>I think what you meant to say about that, Britt

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<v Speaker 3>is that Britain never uses it and she only reserves

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<v Speaker 3>it for people like you, Tony.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what she yeah, I was gonna say. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it really cuts deep that you're just like, yeah, oh

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<v Speaker 2>my god, that coffee was astronomical. I'm like, okay, that's

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<v Speaker 2>how I use it, Tony.

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<v Speaker 3>I reckon, you told the funniest accidentally unfiltered that we've

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<v Speaker 3>potentially ever had.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I mean there's a bit of a setup

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<v Speaker 1>to this.

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<v Speaker 3>So last year we did the live shows in October,

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<v Speaker 3>we released some of the interviews from the live shows

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<v Speaker 3>if you guys were across it last year, but then

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<v Speaker 3>we didn't release Tony's because we always intended to have

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<v Speaker 3>you on the actual podcast and interview you properly.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I played hard to get for too long.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's been a whole fucking year since we've been

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<v Speaker 2>able to nail this down. She's been like ghosting, breadcrumbing

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<v Speaker 2>and zombie. And she comes back, she reels me in

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<v Speaker 2>and thinks we're in a relationship again, and then she

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<v Speaker 2>goes to me again. Yeah. I just love the attention.

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<v Speaker 2>To be quite honest, I've never had two ladies quite

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<v Speaker 2>as beautiful as you guys in my DMS. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna like, hold onto

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<v Speaker 2>this for as long as I can. I want to know.

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<v Speaker 3>You said you've got a new accil unfielded story, but

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<v Speaker 3>I'll take whatever embarrassing story you've got.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I feel like you've pumped the tires up of

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<v Speaker 2>the other one. But basically, for yeah, anyone in Perth

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<v Speaker 2>you would know that there's this ride at the Adventure

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<v Speaker 2>World like theme park. But basically it's like this big

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<v Speaker 2>pirate ship and it like is on a pendulum and

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<v Speaker 2>it kind of like swings left to right and you

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like swing up into the air and then

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<v Speaker 2>back down and then it kind of goes the other way.

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<v Speaker 2>And I actually I was just saying to you guys,

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<v Speaker 2>like I get videos from people from around the world

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<v Speaker 2>whenever they're at like a fair, because this ride is

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<v Speaker 2>just like exists everywhere, so you would know it. But basically,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like sitting on this ride and it kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like swings up and I'm like, oh, oh, that makes

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<v Speaker 2>my dummy feel a little bit funny. And then it

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<v Speaker 2>swung back the other way and I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what that was. And then I realized

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<v Speaker 2>that like I didn't know what it was because I

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<v Speaker 2>maybe wasn't supposed to know yet, and I'm like swinging

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<v Speaker 2>on this right and I'm like, oh oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>it like swings back again. It really like teases you

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<v Speaker 2>this ride. You really get your money's worth. And anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm pretty sure I did my first come on

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<v Speaker 2>a theme park ride. And who else can I say

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<v Speaker 2>that did my first come that because you haven't done

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<v Speaker 2>yours yet, not on.

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<v Speaker 1>A theme park ride. Put it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>I first come on the Pirate ship on the pirate

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<v Speaker 2>ship thing, and I was just like I was stunned

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<v Speaker 2>because I didn't really know what it was. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know why it felt the way that it felt, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like, how do you like? It was astronomic question?

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<v Speaker 3>The real question, Tony is how many times did you

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<v Speaker 3>go on? And after that you were like.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that was she signed up to the VIP membership

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<v Speaker 2>frequent flyof Well it's like seasonal. So Adventure World in

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<v Speaker 2>Perth is only open from like October to March. Like

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<v Speaker 2>it's only open during the hotter months, so when it's cold.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I'm just imagining your mom's like, God, Tony

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<v Speaker 3>spent all day on that fucking pirate chip ride.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who just travels with the World seasonal to like

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<v Speaker 2>Female seasonal, I Go North to South. But you did

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<v Speaker 2>say you actually had a more recent embarrassing moment too,

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<v Speaker 2>Do you want to share that while you're here. On

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast that I make with with Ryan, we introduced

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<v Speaker 2>this idea that on February twenty ninth, so on that

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<v Speaker 2>like leap Day, we introduced an episode where we could

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<v Speaker 2>say something like own up to something, but then we

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't talk about it until the next leap Day, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like a purge almost, And I introduced it because

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<v Speaker 2>we'd only just started renting this studio space that we're

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<v Speaker 2>in now, and so it was really new and we

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't really like gotten a lot of furniture yet and

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<v Speaker 2>didn't really like know the quirks of the building. And

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<v Speaker 2>one morning it was early and I was like, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a delivery coming today. I'll be the one to like

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<v Speaker 2>go and accept it. Like I'll go and open the

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<v Speaker 2>roller door. It's like a factory unit kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, I'll go and open the roller door

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<v Speaker 2>and I'll figure it out, and that's fine, I'll let

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<v Speaker 2>the guy in ru I'm like, great, I'll stay late

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<v Speaker 2>for a different delivery. We're like awesome. I'm like, great compromise.

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<v Speaker 2>I rock up here early and it was like early

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<v Speaker 2>in the year, so I was still on the green juices,

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<v Speaker 2>like I hadn't given up on my resolutions yet. And

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<v Speaker 2>I walk up to the roller door and I like,

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<v Speaker 2>my remote fob things not working. And then I'm like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I will go over to the door, and my key

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<v Speaker 2>in actual like my physical key in the door isn't

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<v Speaker 2>working either. The lock had seized uff and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh my god, like this guy should be here any minute,

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<v Speaker 2>like and I'm not going to be able to accept

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<v Speaker 2>the stuff. But then I realized that the bigger problem

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<v Speaker 2>is that I've had three quarters of a green juice.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't get into the building and I am about

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<v Speaker 2>to violently shit myself. And so I'm sitting in my

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<v Speaker 2>car and I'm like, what do I do? Like do

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<v Speaker 2>I go to a Maca's around the corner and use

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<v Speaker 2>the bathroom? And I'm like no, because this delivery is

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<v Speaker 2>about to come and like then what's getting Like he's

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<v Speaker 2>not going to be able to get in, He's going

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<v Speaker 2>to leave and I'm just going to have to come

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<v Speaker 2>back another day. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>panicking the Pooh is like about to escape my body.

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<v Speaker 2>And I realized what I had to do was park

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<v Speaker 2>my car kind of like across the front of driveway

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<v Speaker 2>and fling the door open to kind of like try

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<v Speaker 2>and cover me from the street. And I shot in

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<v Speaker 2>the garden out of the front of our new building.

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<v Speaker 3>I cannot believe.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I called my boyfriend Torfs, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>you've got to come and help me, and he was like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm on my way to work, so i'll swing past

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<v Speaker 2>your office and he goes, all I've got in the car.

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<v Speaker 2>All I've got in the car is like Pooh bags

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<v Speaker 2>from like our dog. And I was like, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>all I've got is like plastic wrap from like a

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<v Speaker 2>package that I'd picked up from the post office. So

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<v Speaker 2>I scoop up as much as I can into this

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<v Speaker 2>like plastic like postal bag, and Thorbs rocks up and

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<v Speaker 2>he grabs the rest of it and we managed to

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<v Speaker 2>We ended up being able to get into the building,

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<v Speaker 2>so we kind of like scrubbed it away and like

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<v Speaker 2>managed to clean up the crime scene before anybody saw us.

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<v Speaker 2>And then Thorps was like, all right, I will take

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<v Speaker 2>the rubbish and he's like, I'll drop it into a

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<v Speaker 2>random bin at like a Macason the way to work,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, oh my god, you're such a

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<v Speaker 2>life saver. And then when I was telling Ryan this

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<v Speaker 2>story on the pod, he goes, Tony, that has your

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<v Speaker 2>address on it. Because I'd picked up the parcel. You

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<v Speaker 2>might open up the letterbox and someone's mouthed your shit

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<v Speaker 2>back to you. Wait, I think you get away with

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<v Speaker 2>the crime scene. But it's got your full name, address,

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<v Speaker 2>post code page and I'm like, Tony Lodge, like my

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<v Speaker 2>tax file number, like you know, like everything.

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<v Speaker 3>Is on there. The part of this takeaway that I

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<v Speaker 3>can't get over, though, is that your partner is such

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<v Speaker 3>a fucking good guy that he will fish around in

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<v Speaker 3>the garden after your poo and take it with him.

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<v Speaker 2>He will take it away, Like I know.

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<v Speaker 1>This is unfathomable, is what it is?

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<v Speaker 2>Astronomy unreal, It's astronomical.

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<v Speaker 1>That's an astronomical shit, it really is, Tony.

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<v Speaker 3>I you know, I loved interviewing you at the at

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<v Speaker 3>the Perth Show. And one of the parts of your

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<v Speaker 3>story that I find so fascinating because we are in

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<v Speaker 3>the world of it now is that you came from

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<v Speaker 3>a very traditional media background, like you were working in radio,

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<v Speaker 3>but you're working kind of behind the scenes, not on air.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you talk us through a little bit.

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<v Speaker 3>About what that experience was like for you and why

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<v Speaker 3>you left radio and a fiery dumpster to go and

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<v Speaker 3>do podcasting and have your own show.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, it was just an audio producer. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think for when I first started in radio, I was

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<v Speaker 2>literally just making commercials. Like I wasn't even on a show.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't even like allowed to be with the famous

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<v Speaker 2>people or anything. Like I was like tacked away in

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<v Speaker 2>the back corner and I was like started doing crossers

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning because I was like, oh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I could be really good at this. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was kind of told like in no uncertain terms,

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<v Speaker 2>like you don't really look the part, you don't really

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<v Speaker 2>have the qualifications for this, and it's just not going

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<v Speaker 2>to happen. And I think, like I really am easy

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<v Speaker 2>to accept a no. Like if someone says no, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't really accept that as a negotiation. I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>that's it. Like I kind of just accepted that that

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<v Speaker 2>was all. So I was like, you know what, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>really happy just being an audio producer and that's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>And then like after moving around, so I was living

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<v Speaker 2>in Perth and then I moved to regional radio in

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<v Speaker 2>Wa and then moved to Sydney for Metro Radio, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was kind of like, okay, like I'm just an

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<v Speaker 2>audio producer and like I'm actually obviously pretty good at

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<v Speaker 2>this because I keep getting these new jobs. And then

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<v Speaker 2>when I moved to Melbourne, I realized like I was

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<v Speaker 2>audio producer on like a breakfast radio show, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, God, I'm like twenty far four at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like and have I kind of peaked

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<v Speaker 2>like is this it? Like I'm already doing the dream job,

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<v Speaker 2>Like there's probably not really much more that I can do.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I was I just really enjoyed comedy. I

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<v Speaker 2>really enjoyed being part of the show. I loved that

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<v Speaker 2>Jason PJ was the show that I was on. I

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<v Speaker 2>loved that they kind of let me have my moments

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<v Speaker 2>with them, and I was like, god, like there's just

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<v Speaker 2>this thrill about getting to be on air and getting

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<v Speaker 2>to go and do things. And so I started going

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<v Speaker 2>and doing their stunts, which is I think the way

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot of people kind of start getting like

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<v Speaker 2>to dip their toes in a little bit, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, I remember going into the bos and

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<v Speaker 2>being like, oh, you know, like I think I'm offering

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to the show, and you know, it's quite

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<v Speaker 2>hard doing my full time job and doing that, and

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<v Speaker 2>like the guys really like it, Like is there any

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<v Speaker 2>way that I could get a pay rise that I

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<v Speaker 2>can kind of manage doing both things, or maybe take

0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:07.520
<v Speaker 2>on a bit of more of an on air roll.

0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.560
<v Speaker 2>And they were like no, like, if you like doing

0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.360
<v Speaker 2>the on air stuff, you do that for free because

0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.360
<v Speaker 2>there's a million people that would kill to do your

0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.400
<v Speaker 2>job and they would do it for free. Blah blah blah.

0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.200
<v Speaker 2>And I was kind of like, oh, like that's just

0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.760
<v Speaker 2>it then. And then Ryan started working at the radio

0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:25.959
<v Speaker 2>station and he was like, oh, have you ever thought

0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:27.880
<v Speaker 2>about being on air? And I was like I tried,

0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.760
<v Speaker 2>and they said that I couldn't, like because I just

0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:32.600
<v Speaker 2>accepted that and I was like, that's my lot in

0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.440
<v Speaker 2>life and that's fine. And then when we started, he

0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:36.920
<v Speaker 2>was like, why don't we make you up a demo

0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:38.720
<v Speaker 2>to try and get you on the air, And like

0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.040
<v Speaker 2>this whole podcast started as me trying to get make

0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.560
<v Speaker 2>like a demo to be on the radio. Yeah, we

0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.679
<v Speaker 2>started making it and then we like recording the video

0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:48.720
<v Speaker 2>and then we're like, you know what, Like the video

0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.560
<v Speaker 2>is pretty good, the audio is pretty good. Should we

0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.480
<v Speaker 2>try posting that on TikTok or whatever? And we did,

0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.640
<v Speaker 2>and like, oh my god, I'm so glad we did,

0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.120
<v Speaker 2>because yeah, I was like able to quit my job

0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 2>and now this this is my full time job and

0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I get to make this podcast. And I guess the

0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.040
<v Speaker 2>biggest thing was that, like, had I just accepted that no,

0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.080
<v Speaker 2>and didn't have someone in my corner like Ryan that

0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.480
<v Speaker 2>was like no, Like you don't have to accept that,

0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Like you can keep fucking going and you can keep trying,

0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.160
<v Speaker 2>like I just I wouldn't be here, yeah, and like

0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.200
<v Speaker 2>it kind of makes me emotional that I'm like, wow,

0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.480
<v Speaker 2>I was just so happy to accept that, and like, yeah,

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.760
<v Speaker 2>had I not had a champion like that, I would

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.720
<v Speaker 2>still be there and I would just be like this

0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.199
<v Speaker 2>is just it. You know, It's funny because I mean

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.520
<v Speaker 2>I was getting emotional then for you, because it's this

0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.240
<v Speaker 2>idea of you're the captain of your own ship and

0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.480
<v Speaker 2>we all know it, but sometimes it's not as easy

0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.960
<v Speaker 2>to put that into practice, and so you know that now,

0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 2>but you would have just kept cruising through life.

0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm so interested in coming from the backside of radio,

0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:47.679
<v Speaker 3>the back end of radio, and like all the behind

0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 3>the scenes as well, And then I think that there's

0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.719
<v Speaker 3>a real and I have to be careful with it

0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.199
<v Speaker 3>because obviously we work in radio now, but there is

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.679
<v Speaker 3>a real disparity between like on air talent and how

0:12:58.720 --> 0:12:59.960
<v Speaker 3>it works behind the scenes as well.

0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Well.

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 3>What was your experience of being a female working in

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.320
<v Speaker 3>radio and how do you kind of see the opportunities

0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:09.440
<v Speaker 3>that were presented for on air talents to work.

0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, first of all, like in that most recent

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:13.960
<v Speaker 2>job that I had, there was a guy doing the

0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 2>exact same job as me and who was getting paid more,

0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>and we had like pretty similar experience, and that like

0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>there was just no interest in like meeting that pay

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:28.400
<v Speaker 2>disparity or even like the emotional responsibility that like I

0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.840
<v Speaker 2>feel like I took on more than they did. Like

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I felt as if the work kind of came to

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.120
<v Speaker 2>me and we were kind of splitting it up rather

0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.560
<v Speaker 2>than us both kind of taking responsibility for our days.

0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.360
<v Speaker 2>And that was really hard because you, like, I just

0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.319
<v Speaker 2>felt like I was carrying them mental load a lot.

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.959
<v Speaker 2>I felt like I was really caring about the outcomes

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 2>of things and didn't really necessarily feel like other people

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.680
<v Speaker 2>were meeting me in the middle, like with that stuff.

0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.199
<v Speaker 2>I guess working behind the scenes like that. There really

0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.240
<v Speaker 2>isn't many females in especially in audio production. I think

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.079
<v Speaker 2>it's changing now, but the way that it all works

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 2>is like, I mean, regional radio is not even really

0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 2>a thing now, So in terms of people getting up

0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:13.040
<v Speaker 2>in radio like that quote unquote traditional way of like

0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.720
<v Speaker 2>going to regional radio and things like that, I think

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.000
<v Speaker 2>that now it will most naturally go to people who

0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>like already have their foot in the door some way,

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:24.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, Like and that's not me like trying to

0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 2>hang shit on Like you guys obviously you like had

0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 2>a huge profile and then you got into radio, but

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.800
<v Speaker 2>like you work fucking hard. I think it's more the

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>people that go like, oh, we'll just put them on

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 2>because they're having a bit of a moment and it

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.520
<v Speaker 2>flops and it goes nowhere, and then you go, oh,

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.200
<v Speaker 2>but there's all these people that are trying really hard,

0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.240
<v Speaker 2>that are willing to do the work and do that

0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.200
<v Speaker 2>job and like, and you guys can agree and attest

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 2>to this as well, like it's actually a hard job

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 2>to do. I think that people were like, oh, you're

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.000
<v Speaker 2>just talk into a microphone, you have fun with your

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 2>best friend. How hard could it be? You know, I

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be on the radio so bad and they

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't let me. And so instead of I guess accepting that, like, well,

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.120
<v Speaker 2>we created this job for ourselves. You know. I think

0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 2>there's some statistic of like only zero point three of

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 2>podcasts in the world make any money, Yeah, which is

0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 2>just insane. So you kind of do have to carve

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 2>your own path and think about like multiple income streams.

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Like it's not as straightforward as you think it is

0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.680
<v Speaker 2>just like oh, I make this and then I get paid,

0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Like it's just not like that.

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 3>I also find it really fascinating because I mean to

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 3>lift the curtain a little bit on the sort of

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 3>radio podcasting world. If you're working in radio, usually if

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 3>you start a podcast, it has to be housed by

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.440
<v Speaker 3>the radio network that owns podcasts.

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 1>So for example, we work for ARN.

0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.120
<v Speaker 3>They have a podcast network called iHeart, even though we

0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 3>independently own Life on Cut. As you guys all know

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 3>it's our podcast. We sell our ad space to ARN,

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.720
<v Speaker 3>so it kind of works in like a mutual arrangement there.

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 3>But when you are employed by radio and then you

0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 3>start your own podcast, were you independent or did you

0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.080
<v Speaker 3>have to be underneath your network? And was there a

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.040
<v Speaker 3>conflict of interest there when things started to go really

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.920
<v Speaker 3>well for you in the world of podcasting, when you've

0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 3>been told by your bosses, sorry, you're not on air talent.

0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.440
<v Speaker 2>So we were both lucky enough that having been in

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.600
<v Speaker 2>the world a little bit and both having had podcasts before,

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 2>we did have a little bit of knowledge, because, I mean,

0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 2>you hear these horror stories about people who have these

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 2>amazing podcasts that then all of a sudden they don't

0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.280
<v Speaker 2>own them and they can't move them somewhere else, or

0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 2>they can't continue making it and stuff, which is so scary,

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 2>and we had both seen that happen, so we were

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.240
<v Speaker 2>both a bit wise up to that. But like you said,

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 2>we were working for ARN, So our podcast for the

0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.720
<v Speaker 2>first year was with iHeartRadio, and we made sure that

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 2>we owned everything. We made sure that it was ours

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 2>and a podcast I'd had before had a feed, and

0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.120
<v Speaker 2>so we said we don't need a new feed because

0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.080
<v Speaker 2>we're just going to archive those old episodes and start

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 2>like posting Tony what is now Tony? And Ryan onto

0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.600
<v Speaker 2>there And so I owned that, like Tony Lodge owned that,

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.920
<v Speaker 2>which probably ended up being quite lucky and worked out

0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.440
<v Speaker 2>for us, because yet some people just like don't get

0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.880
<v Speaker 2>to keep making their stuff when they want to leave.

0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.480
<v Speaker 2>That was only a year, and then after that we

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 2>ended up getting an offer to become exclusive with Spotify,

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.240
<v Speaker 2>which is just the wildest thing that could have even

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.440
<v Speaker 2>ever happened. Like that's just like Spotify knows my name,

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.439
<v Speaker 2>Like what that is so insane. We moved on and

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 2>we joined them, and now we are independent. Our ads

0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.600
<v Speaker 2>get sold by acasts the same as you guys, Like

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.120
<v Speaker 2>it's a completely it's our arrangement and whatever, but we

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 2>own everything and it's all ours and like no one

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 2>gets to say what we do or say or have

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.960
<v Speaker 2>on or yeah. So it's like pretty amazing. And you've

0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:42.959
<v Speaker 2>got a big enough audience. This is the thing that

0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 2>as another fellow podcaster that like, I look at you

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.080
<v Speaker 2>guys and I admire so much. You have a huge

0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:52.080
<v Speaker 2>audience in America and overseas, and it's really hard in

0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 2>this industry to do that and to break into another

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 2>country for those people that might not know what's it. Like,

0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:58.719
<v Speaker 2>Like I saw you guys go over there to America

0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 2>recently and do a tour. Is that mind blowing to

0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.159
<v Speaker 2>you that you can go to such a foreign country

0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.399
<v Speaker 2>and people recognize you, turn up to see you, know

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:12.240
<v Speaker 2>your name. It's the wildest thing. Like it's just so

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 2>like even you're just saying that then has given me goosebumps.

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Like just the thought of that is is just fucked.

0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 2>It's just a fucking yeah. Like it's just so strange,

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.239
<v Speaker 2>like the thought that people are willing to turn up.

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.560
<v Speaker 2>And I think there's just so much content now, Like

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.399
<v Speaker 2>people have so many options. Like when I was growing up,

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.560
<v Speaker 2>there was channel seven, Channel nine and Channel ten and

0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:36.840
<v Speaker 2>like that was it. But now you know, there's so

0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.119
<v Speaker 2>many ways that people can get content. So I think

0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.639
<v Speaker 2>the thought that all these people around the world are

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.080
<v Speaker 2>like committing half an hour of their precious time to

0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.680
<v Speaker 2>us every day. I don't ever want to forget what

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 2>that means when I think about how crucial, like a

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.760
<v Speaker 2>half an hour of my time is at night time

0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>before bed, I go if I'm putting on a TV show,

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 2>I want it to be really good. And Ryan's and

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.560
<v Speaker 2>new dad. So he's kind of going through that at

0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.000
<v Speaker 2>the moment where he's like, I'm not getting a lot

0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 2>of sleep, So whatever time I give myself to enjoy something,

0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.480
<v Speaker 2>it has to be really, really good. So he listens

0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.400
<v Speaker 2>to himself, Yeah, it's like, it's got to be quality.

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:13.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm just going to listen to our room. He's like,

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 2>I've been listening to laugh Uncut before.

0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.840
<v Speaker 3>But also like, you work with one of your closest friends, Like,

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.200
<v Speaker 3>what is your relationship with Ryan like now? After spending

0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.040
<v Speaker 3>so many years? And I asked this because there is

0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.479
<v Speaker 3>this kind of like interesting thing that happens when you

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 3>come to podcasting and that I'm still in the room. Remember, yeah,

0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.440
<v Speaker 3>but you make you make content about your own personal life.

0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.960
<v Speaker 3>Your job is to talk about your personal life, and

0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.159
<v Speaker 3>the lines can sometimes get really blurred, like what's your

0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:41.160
<v Speaker 3>relationship like now?

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.040
<v Speaker 2>So when we first started doing this, we didn't really

0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 2>know each other that well at all, and so it

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.159
<v Speaker 2>was kind of like learning about each other, learning the limit,

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:54.080
<v Speaker 2>like learning what is cool and what's not and knowing

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.359
<v Speaker 2>as well, oh, I don't know anything about your life

0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:02.200
<v Speaker 2>outside of what we kind of new from working together briefly,

0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.480
<v Speaker 2>so we were getting to know each other as co hosts,

0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.800
<v Speaker 2>as people and friends. But then also all of a sudden,

0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.480
<v Speaker 2>you throw in running a business together, and we had

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.640
<v Speaker 2>to shift from these modes of like, well, we're recording

0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.119
<v Speaker 2>right now, so we're having bantam, it's all fun, and

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.439
<v Speaker 2>then we go, okay, and now we have to like

0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.879
<v Speaker 2>figure out what accounting is and like how to pay tax,

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.520
<v Speaker 2>and that's like the business owner part. And then we're

0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>also like, okay, well, after all that, it's five o'clock.

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Should we go and have dinner and like try and

0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 2>get to know each other a little bit more. I

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.880
<v Speaker 2>guess like it's been like a long distance relationship where

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 2>you kind of like everything is sped up and everything

0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.800
<v Speaker 2>is just like ten X because you're like, we need

0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.400
<v Speaker 2>to figure out if this is something that we can do,

0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.119
<v Speaker 2>we want to do is possible? Do I hate you?

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.960
<v Speaker 2>And I just haven't realized yet we haven't had enough

0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 2>time together.

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like going on a first date.

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Right, You've realized you've got chemistry and band to there,

0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:57.080
<v Speaker 2>but you don't know if you just want to fuck

0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 2>or not it's the same thing, like you don't know

0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.239
<v Speaker 2>if it's a long relationship or if it's that night

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.320
<v Speaker 2>sent So you fucked and then you're still here. So

0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.320
<v Speaker 2>we fucked and we still figured out. But it's kind

0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:10.840
<v Speaker 2>of like we also were just really different people. We

0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.040
<v Speaker 2>communicate really differently, and that has been I think a

0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.680
<v Speaker 2>bit of a superpower for us, because I had someone that,

0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.119
<v Speaker 2>like I was saying earlier, was like would champion me,

0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.480
<v Speaker 2>and we'd be like, no, Tony, Like don't fucking take no, frienands,

0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.520
<v Speaker 2>like you can do this, and so having that is

0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 2>so powerful. But also as someone who's not naturally like that,

0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.840
<v Speaker 2>when I need to not be pushed, I'm like, you

0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.400
<v Speaker 2>need to fuck off, Like this isn't a time where

0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I need to be bucked up and gassed up. I

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:40.879
<v Speaker 2>need you to shut up and like give me a minute.

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:43.679
<v Speaker 2>So it was also like learning how to push each

0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.280
<v Speaker 2>other and when to push and when to like hang back.

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:48.119
<v Speaker 1>And give space.

0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, like a relationship. We just kind of fell

0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.159
<v Speaker 2>into this, and I mean it's worked out well and

0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.359
<v Speaker 2>we have like persevered. But had he been someone I

0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:00.920
<v Speaker 2>just met, like, we probably wouldn't still be friends. Like,

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:03.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, we probably wouldn't have like stayed in touch,

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.119
<v Speaker 2>and you know, like which is so strange because now

0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.440
<v Speaker 2>we're like part of each other's lives in this weird way.

0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:10.240
<v Speaker 2>He's got a baby that I see all the time,

0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm friends with his wife, he's friends with my boyfriend.

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:14.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, I just can't imagine he came to the

0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.680
<v Speaker 2>auction when I bought my house, Like, you know, he's

0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 2>just like the most supportive person and I love him

0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:24.440
<v Speaker 2>to death. But it's just crazy that under any normal circumstances,

0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:26.360
<v Speaker 2>like would we still be mates? Like maybe not.

0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:27.920
<v Speaker 1>So interesting, isn't it.

0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:29.640
<v Speaker 3>And it's also interesting because like you can have two

0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:32.640
<v Speaker 3>people that can be so different, But then the thing

0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.439
<v Speaker 3>that you share that's really unique and special is the chemistry.

0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 3>Like the chemistry that you can have in that dance

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:39.919
<v Speaker 3>that you can do when you're on air together is

0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:43.400
<v Speaker 3>something that is really hard to find with just anyone.

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.119
<v Speaker 3>Like that's the thing that makes the product so incredible.

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.880
<v Speaker 3>People also forget too that it is a relationship.

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 2>It is a relationship, and people have different communication styles

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:53.960
<v Speaker 2>like Laura and I do like you guys said, and

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.000
<v Speaker 2>like different things that people need, like words of affirmation,

0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:58.159
<v Speaker 2>or time or whatever.

0:22:58.520 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Physical touch, yes.

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Always to change she feels me up. But it is

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.520
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent another relationship that you need to manage,

0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:06.640
<v Speaker 2>just not well, maybe your but it's just not sexual.

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:12.840
<v Speaker 2>You and Torbes, your partner, have decided we'll ah for

0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.080
<v Speaker 2>now child free by choice, which is, you know, it

0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 2>is becoming more popular, but it is still against the grain.

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:24.040
<v Speaker 2>It's still against societal norms. Is that something you always

0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:26.919
<v Speaker 2>knew you wanted to be childless by choice? Is it

0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.639
<v Speaker 2>something you've discovered along the way, and is it something

0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.600
<v Speaker 2>that has changed slightly since Ryan has become a dad.

0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I think the childless thing like when as I was

0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.439
<v Speaker 2>growing up, I just always assumed I would have kids,

0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:42.639
<v Speaker 2>because that's just like, so rather than it being a

0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:45.400
<v Speaker 2>choice I would, I just assumed that I would because

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 2>you grow up and you have babies and did that

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.480
<v Speaker 2>classic thing of like, oh, by the time i'm twenty two,

0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>i'll be married, I'll have three kids. And then you're

0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:56.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty two and you're like doing acid in a warehouse

0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:58.240
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, oh my god, I'm like not doing

0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.840
<v Speaker 2>what I thought I was going to be doing. You're

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.520
<v Speaker 2>getting off on a pirate ship. That's about it. Yes, yeah, no,

0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.320
<v Speaker 2>that was much younger. But I think it hit a

0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:08.920
<v Speaker 2>point where I was just a bit like, oh, maybe

0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I won't do that, and yeah, Teorbes and I like,

0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.600
<v Speaker 2>we just moved in together literally that day, and we're

0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:18.959
<v Speaker 2>laying in this beautiful new house. It wasn't actually it

0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.760
<v Speaker 2>was like some shit share house and we're laying there together,

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.800
<v Speaker 2>and I was just like, oh, I don't know if

0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm ever gonna want kids. Well, the worst timing probably

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.919
<v Speaker 2>because we just moved in together, and I was like,

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.040
<v Speaker 2>should this be of something that we talked about? But

0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I think I like realized and I just said it

0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:40.480
<v Speaker 2>out loud. I think because us living together was like

0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:42.720
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of our life. And I'm like, oh my god,

0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:45.080
<v Speaker 2>does this mean that you know? Is this the house

0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:47.399
<v Speaker 2>we're going to have kids in? And then I was

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.160
<v Speaker 2>like oh nah, actually, and Teorbes said like, oh, well,

0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I would rather have you than a baby, so that's

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:55.920
<v Speaker 2>fine with me, and we check in like once a year.

0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess it normally ends up being around like if

0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.840
<v Speaker 2>somebody in our life has a baby or whatever, I go, oh, like,

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.119
<v Speaker 2>cause we both love kids and we've got nephews that

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:07.240
<v Speaker 2>we adore and Ryan's baby is in our life now,

0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:10.000
<v Speaker 2>and I just think about all the great things about

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:14.679
<v Speaker 2>enjoying kids and like love playing and hanging out and

0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:16.880
<v Speaker 2>having them in my life. But I just think all

0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:19.879
<v Speaker 2>the other stuff that we get to enjoy and the

0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.720
<v Speaker 2>freedom that we have. I guess that that's just our

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:26.720
<v Speaker 2>preference for now. But I think everybody just assumes that

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:28.879
<v Speaker 2>if you don't want kids, like you just hate them,

0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:31.240
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's really not that at all, Like it's

0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I probably now as I'm growing up and realizing that

0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.439
<v Speaker 2>me not having children is like sacrificing the great parts

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:40.960
<v Speaker 2>about being a mom and like being a parent, but

0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:42.960
<v Speaker 2>knowing that there's parts of it that I wouldn't be

0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:45.920
<v Speaker 2>very good at and that I wouldn't want to subject

0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:47.959
<v Speaker 2>a child to. Like I'm like, that's not your Like,

0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 2>do you get what I mean? Like it's hard to articulate.

0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 1>No, I think you're articulating it perfectly.

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:53.919
<v Speaker 3>And I also think the thing that's really remarkable is

0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:55.760
<v Speaker 3>when you find a partner that's on the same page

0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:57.920
<v Speaker 3>and that you've made that decision together and you're doing

0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:00.119
<v Speaker 3>this together, and you know, we talk about it in

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:02.240
<v Speaker 3>relationships all the time. That like where the pinch in

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.679
<v Speaker 3>the pool happens, is when one partner wants something that

0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:06.960
<v Speaker 3>the other doesn't. But I think a lot of people

0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:09.359
<v Speaker 3>have children and it's the best thing that they ever do.

0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:11.240
<v Speaker 3>And a lot of people have children because it's the

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.840
<v Speaker 3>thing that they expected that they should do, and it

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 3>hasn't really been a conscious decision. It's just been the

0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:20.080
<v Speaker 3>next thing to do in life. And I don't know

0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:21.920
<v Speaker 3>whether that's the right way to go about it, because

0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:24.120
<v Speaker 3>it's definitely something you can't give back once you've made

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:25.200
<v Speaker 3>that decision and it's happening.

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's so funny that people go, oh, are you

0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:29.920
<v Speaker 2>sure you don't want kids? Like you can't take that back,

0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:32.280
<v Speaker 2>And I go, I can take that decision back much

0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:35.520
<v Speaker 2>easier than I can take back having a child and

0:26:35.560 --> 0:26:36.680
<v Speaker 2>wishing that I didn't.

0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it's so true.

0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I have a question for you because it's something that

0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:42.560
<v Speaker 2>I think about all the time because I'm the same

0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:44.679
<v Speaker 2>as you, where I shouldn't say the same as you,

0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>but I often think I don't know if it's for me,

0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 2>and it's the path I want to go down, But

0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting to crunch time, you know, I'll be thirty

0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 2>eight this year when I'm getting married, but my partner

0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:54.640
<v Speaker 2>I talk about it all the time. Do you ever

0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:58.679
<v Speaker 2>mourn the decision to not have kids? And what I

0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:01.600
<v Speaker 2>mean by that is you so confidently then say like,

0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:04.879
<v Speaker 2>it's not for me. And sometimes I'll say that to myself.

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:06.399
<v Speaker 2>I'll be like, Okay, I think it's not going to

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:09.520
<v Speaker 2>be for me. But then I get really sad thinking

0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:11.199
<v Speaker 2>about the fact that it's not for me, and I

0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 2>try and picture my future, and I'm like, it makes

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.240
<v Speaker 2>me upset to think that a child's not going to

0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:17.800
<v Speaker 2>be my future, even if I've made the decision. It's

0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:20.920
<v Speaker 2>really complex emotions because you can feel comfortable in what

0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 2>your decision is, but then I guess it's the unknown

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 2>of how you're going to feel in ten, fifteen, twenty years.

0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:28.439
<v Speaker 2>So do you ever sort of sit in that feeling

0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 2>of being like, I know it's not for me now,

0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:32.800
<v Speaker 2>but fuck that makes me sad in a way, Probably

0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:36.040
<v Speaker 2>less about it making me sad, because You're right, it's

0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:38.960
<v Speaker 2>really complex. But I think where I've landed with it

0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:41.120
<v Speaker 2>is like what I was saying, like, I probably now

0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:45.399
<v Speaker 2>consider it I'm sacrificing the great parts about potentially like

0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.640
<v Speaker 2>being a mom and having a baby and like experiencing

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:51.679
<v Speaker 2>that love and joy and all of those things. Like

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm sacrificing that for you know, the fact that maybe

0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:56.639
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't be that good at it, or maybe it

0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:59.119
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't really be for me, or maybe I do prefer

0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:02.480
<v Speaker 2>my freedom. I think, Yeah, what it comes down to

0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:05.000
<v Speaker 2>is that, like I don't hate kids. It's not like

0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:07.159
<v Speaker 2>I don't want them. I'm just saying, like, you know what,

0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:09.679
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's not the right choice for me

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:12.840
<v Speaker 2>or for us. And whether that makes it better, I

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:16.080
<v Speaker 2>don't really know. But there are I think, especially like

0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:18.920
<v Speaker 2>around the holidays and whatever, I go, oh, having kids

0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:21.520
<v Speaker 2>would be so special because you think about how much

0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.480
<v Speaker 2>like kids love Christmas and kids love stuff, and you

0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:27.280
<v Speaker 2>just think about spoiling them and whatever. And then I go, yeah,

0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:30.120
<v Speaker 2>but so what once a year, I am cool with it.

0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 2>But you know, like, and I think that's almost like

0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:36.600
<v Speaker 2>how I have realized that like the times I feel

0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:40.640
<v Speaker 2>sad about it are like minuscule compared to the times

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:44.240
<v Speaker 2>that I feel really comfortable with the decision. And so

0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I feel like what you'll say, like that to me

0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:48.880
<v Speaker 2>sounds like you know exactly what you need and one

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:51.720
<v Speaker 2>in your life because if it gives you that like

0:28:51.840 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 2>gutt or feeling after deciding, like I feel like you

0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:55.600
<v Speaker 2>know exactly what you need?

0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah for you, Yeah, I mean curing you guys.

0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:01.320
<v Speaker 3>Unpack that you asked the question, brit I was like,

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:03.280
<v Speaker 3>I feel like the response would be very different. I

0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:05.200
<v Speaker 3>feel like most people who've made that decision are at

0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 3>peace with the decision, and when they've gotten to that place,

0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 3>it's like, well, it's not a thing that creates distress

0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:12.600
<v Speaker 3>or upset because it's like why would it.

0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:14.480
<v Speaker 2>It's what I want, which is worse because I don't

0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>have peace. Yeah, but that's what That's what I mean.

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Like even the way that you ask that question, then

0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.040
<v Speaker 2>you're like, don't you just feel so fucking devastated about it?

0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, no, paid I don't like and yeah, that's

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.160
<v Speaker 2>like it's just as simple as that, and it's I mean,

0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:31.640
<v Speaker 2>it's not fucking simple. While I say that it's so complex,

0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 2>it's like the craziest thought that I'm like, hang on,

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:37.280
<v Speaker 2>if I'm put on this earth to like repopulate it,

0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:40.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm like not doing my one thing that I don't

0:29:40.880 --> 0:29:42.400
<v Speaker 2>really know what that means.

0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, I think you do, and I think you've

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:47.720
<v Speaker 3>explained it perfectly, and I do think that there is

0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 3>also a lot of like, when someone has made the choice,

0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 3>you've got to explain why, which is crazy, you know,

0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:56.320
<v Speaker 3>And I know we asked the questions, but it's because the

0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:58.960
<v Speaker 3>conversation is not had as frequently as the choice to

0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 3>have children. No, no one's like, why do you want

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:03.840
<v Speaker 3>to have children? Talk to me about how you came

0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:06.800
<v Speaker 3>to the decision to have kids, just expect nobody ever

0:30:06.880 --> 0:30:09.640
<v Speaker 3>asked that. But the alternate seems like something that needs

0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:11.040
<v Speaker 3>to be queried. And I think that there are so

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:13.880
<v Speaker 3>many women now who are making this decision. And the

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:16.680
<v Speaker 3>reason why we talk about a lot on this podcast

0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:20.920
<v Speaker 3>is because it gives voice to alternate ways of living life.

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:23.600
<v Speaker 3>And it doesn't mean that one is better or everything

0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:27.960
<v Speaker 3>is just it's just different. You've spoken a bit, I

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.400
<v Speaker 3>mean the book that you wrote I don't need therapy

0:30:30.480 --> 0:30:32.880
<v Speaker 3>and other lies I've told myself. There's so much in

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:35.000
<v Speaker 3>this that you unpacked, but I would love to know.

0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:36.920
<v Speaker 3>And one thing we're gonna talk about, which we spoke

0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:39.160
<v Speaker 3>about live show, is your mom and when your mom

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 3>passed away, But then writing about it and putting that

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:44.680
<v Speaker 3>out into the world and having everybody else tell you

0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 3>their experiences of grief as well. What has it been

0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:53.720
<v Speaker 3>like to share so personally the massive grief and coming

0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:55.840
<v Speaker 3>to terms of what that grief meant about losing your mum.

0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:59.640
<v Speaker 2>So there's a lot of people that message me and

0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:03.160
<v Speaker 2>go like, oh, thank you so much for sharing that,

0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.000
<v Speaker 2>or I've just read your book, thank you for sharing

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:06.840
<v Speaker 2>the way that you did about your mum, because I

0:31:06.840 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 2>feel so much less alone now. I don't think that

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:14.120
<v Speaker 2>people realize what that gives me too, because I'm like,

0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I've just put myself out there in this crazy way,

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:20.520
<v Speaker 2>and I'm talking about these feelings that people either haven't

0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:24.600
<v Speaker 2>experienced yet or may never experience, depending on their relationship

0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:27.840
<v Speaker 2>with people in their lives. But I don't think people

0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:30.720
<v Speaker 2>realize that reflecting back to me and saying, oh my god,

0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:32.240
<v Speaker 2>it made me feel so much less learn I'm like,

0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:35.360
<v Speaker 2>thank God that I'm not the only person feeling this

0:31:35.920 --> 0:31:38.120
<v Speaker 2>in a good and a bad way, because obviously I'm

0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:40.520
<v Speaker 2>heartbroken when I can relate to people in that way.

0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:43.720
<v Speaker 2>But I think people think like, oh, well, you wrote

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.040
<v Speaker 2>it down, so you must feel really confident, or you

0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:49.440
<v Speaker 2>must know everything. I'm like, I really don't, and having

0:31:49.480 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 2>the freedom to write down all my feelings was amazing

0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 2>and really cathartic. And I mean it doesn't have to

0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:59.040
<v Speaker 2>be in a book that goes on to be published

0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:02.520
<v Speaker 2>and become a SOLA and an award writning book, Like

0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:05.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it like really showed to me like the

0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:10.840
<v Speaker 2>importance of journaling for yourself, without judgment for what you've written,

0:32:11.280 --> 0:32:13.840
<v Speaker 2>and without thinking that somebody else is going to read it,

0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:17.880
<v Speaker 2>writing for yourself, and that's kind of what that book is.

0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:21.200
<v Speaker 2>It's like amazing that there's this version of my mum

0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that lives in the world. I think that is one

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 2>of the coolest parts. That she's not here, but people

0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:31.640
<v Speaker 2>get to meet her because I've shown them her. Yeah.

0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:34.479
<v Speaker 2>I found one thing you spoke about really interesting that

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:36.720
<v Speaker 2>after your mom passed away and you were only nineteen,

0:32:36.800 --> 0:32:39.200
<v Speaker 2>so you were so young, but that you felt like

0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:42.080
<v Speaker 2>you couldn't talk about her after Can you elaborate a

0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 2>little bit on that. I found that I was at

0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:47.520
<v Speaker 2>this age where you know, people were still living at

0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:50.440
<v Speaker 2>home and things like that, and they would I would

0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:52.480
<v Speaker 2>be talking to someone, they'd be like, oh, hang on, sorry,

0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:55.200
<v Speaker 2>my Mom's just calling me or oh I was talking

0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:57.680
<v Speaker 2>to Mom the other day about X y Z or oh,

0:32:57.760 --> 0:32:59.240
<v Speaker 2>hang on, like I've got to go, Like my Mum's

0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:02.080
<v Speaker 2>picking me up in fifteen minutes whatever. And I was like,

0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:07.320
<v Speaker 2>remember just feeling this like hot rage and jealousy that

0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:10.960
<v Speaker 2>people could just like so easily drop their mum into

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:16.120
<v Speaker 2>a conversation. And aside from the fact that she wasn't

0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:21.080
<v Speaker 2>with me anymore, the casual nature of talking about her

0:33:21.160 --> 0:33:23.120
<v Speaker 2>and being able to just like bring her up or

0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:27.120
<v Speaker 2>mention her just fell away. And I think that there's

0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:31.479
<v Speaker 2>just like so much stigma around showing your feelings. You know,

0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:34.800
<v Speaker 2>if you say that you're struggling, you just are begging

0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:37.040
<v Speaker 2>for attention. If you say that you're happy, you're rubbing

0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.760
<v Speaker 2>it in people's face. If you say that you're grieving,

0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:42.360
<v Speaker 2>people like, oh, get over it, like change the record.

0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:44.840
<v Speaker 2>And so I felt like there was just no way

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:47.640
<v Speaker 2>that I could ever bring up my mom without it

0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 2>seeming like, I don't know, attention seeking or things like that.

0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:54.000
<v Speaker 2>And so that was the hardest part that I was like,

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:58.240
<v Speaker 2>this crazy thing has just happened to me. My favorite

0:33:58.280 --> 0:34:01.080
<v Speaker 2>person in the world is gone, and all of a sudden,

0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I just have to like shut up about it. And

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:07.280
<v Speaker 2>people all of a sudden aren't being like, oh, so,

0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>what was your mum's favorite food or whatever? Like you know,

0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:13.760
<v Speaker 2>nobody's asking that because how strange.

0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:16.359
<v Speaker 3>But also no one asks it because there's this real

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:18.480
<v Speaker 3>fear and when it comes to grief, there's this real

0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:21.480
<v Speaker 3>fear around upsetting the other person. So instead of asking

0:34:21.600 --> 0:34:25.439
<v Speaker 3>questions that would allow for that person's their greatest loss,

0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:27.400
<v Speaker 3>the person that they love the most, to continue on

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:31.040
<v Speaker 3>in conversation, we avoid it. And we avoid it because

0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 3>we're like, oh, I don't want them, I don't want

0:34:32.600 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 3>to make them think about it. But the thing is,

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 3>you're thinking about it all the time anyway. It's not

0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:38.759
<v Speaker 3>like it's very far from your brain or very far

0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 3>from your thoughts.

0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what's a piece of advice that you would

0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:46.000
<v Speaker 2>give people listening right now surrounding that, because we speak

0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 2>to different people all the time where they say that

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.040
<v Speaker 2>they're like, I would love people to continue the conversation

0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:51.879
<v Speaker 2>or ask me how I am when I'm going through

0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 2>my biggest loss.

0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:53.920
<v Speaker 1>What would you tell people?

0:34:54.239 --> 0:35:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I would love to cancel saying sorry because being like, oh, yeah,

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:02.439
<v Speaker 2>my mum's just passed away, people going oh, I'm so sorry.

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I go, well, you didn't kill her, and I feel

0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:07.960
<v Speaker 2>like there's all of a sudden, this like power dynamic

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:12.520
<v Speaker 2>shift of I am feeling heartbroken about whatever, whatever it

0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:14.960
<v Speaker 2>may be, and then you go I'm sorry, and I go, oh,

0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:17.719
<v Speaker 2>it's okay, and all of a sudden, like I'm comforting

0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:22.840
<v Speaker 2>you because you feel uncomfortable. I just kept found people

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:24.839
<v Speaker 2>just kept saying they were sorry, and I was like,

0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:26.799
<v Speaker 2>you don't need to be sorry, like you didn't give

0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:29.200
<v Speaker 2>her brain cancer, you didn't do this to me, you

0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:32.480
<v Speaker 2>didn't do this to her. And so the path I

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:37.359
<v Speaker 2>now go down is that fucking sucks because all you want, well,

0:35:37.400 --> 0:35:39.759
<v Speaker 2>all I wanted was someone to just be like that

0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:43.839
<v Speaker 2>really sucks, and there's nothing I can say, but that's

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:47.280
<v Speaker 2>really shit because you just want people to acknowledge your pain.

0:35:47.960 --> 0:35:50.080
<v Speaker 2>And I think that this is true for so many

0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:53.160
<v Speaker 2>situations in our lives, like we just want to be heard.

0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:55.839
<v Speaker 2>We just want people to be like, you know what,

0:35:56.239 --> 0:36:00.359
<v Speaker 2>that really sucks that that happened. Whether you're worse thing

0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 2>today was that you missed the bus, or that you

0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:05.040
<v Speaker 2>dropped your berries and go get on your T shirt

0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:08.600
<v Speaker 2>or that, like you know your mom is dead, like

0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:11.080
<v Speaker 2>whether it is one extreme to the other, Like everybody's

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:14.200
<v Speaker 2>worst thing is their worst thing, and they just want

0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:17.000
<v Speaker 2>to be heard. Like people just want you to acknowledge that,

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:20.320
<v Speaker 2>like they must be having a shit day because XYZ happened.

0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:23.200
<v Speaker 3>We struggle so much with death, like we struggle so

0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:27.000
<v Speaker 3>much with grief, and like we don't like the discomfort

0:36:27.440 --> 0:36:30.360
<v Speaker 3>of potentially upsetting someone else. And it's a very Western

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:32.840
<v Speaker 3>culture thing, but we dance around grief. And I think

0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 3>one of the things I loved about your book and

0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 3>something you just mentioned in terms of the casualness, I

0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:42.240
<v Speaker 3>also like how you speak about grief in a casual

0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:45.120
<v Speaker 3>way and hear me out when you're like, hey, this

0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 3>really bad things just happened, but I got to get

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:49.279
<v Speaker 3>up in the morning and make toast or I'm watching TV.

0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:52.600
<v Speaker 3>These things feel normal, but nothing feels normal at the

0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:53.200
<v Speaker 3>same time.

0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:57.640
<v Speaker 1>And it's this, it's this really like life goes on. Yeah,

0:36:57.680 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 1>and it does.

0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:00.640
<v Speaker 3>And I think for a lot of people, they around

0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:03.440
<v Speaker 3>you for like two months or even less. Sometimes you know,

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:05.680
<v Speaker 3>you get them, you get the messages, you get like

0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:08.279
<v Speaker 3>you know, some niceties, and then a lot of people

0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:10.200
<v Speaker 3>you don't hear from anymore, you know, and it's like

0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:12.200
<v Speaker 3>that doesn't just stop for you.

0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:13.360
<v Speaker 1>You're still left in the grief.

0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:17.040
<v Speaker 3>You're still working through it, like it's such an ongoing process.

0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:19.600
<v Speaker 3>And I think people, unless I've experienced themselves, they don't

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:20.000
<v Speaker 3>get it.

0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:22.719
<v Speaker 2>And I think that was another really challenging thing for

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 2>me because I was nineteen, like you said, Britt, and

0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:30.319
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know what was going on, and neither did

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:32.759
<v Speaker 2>any of my friends. Like no, I didn't know anybody

0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:36.040
<v Speaker 2>that had lost a parent or anything. So all of

0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:42.560
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, I felt like such a burden on all

0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:44.719
<v Speaker 2>of my friends, and I just felt like they all

0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:47.880
<v Speaker 2>pulled away from me because again, like they didn't know

0:37:47.880 --> 0:37:50.160
<v Speaker 2>how to sit in that discomfort, and they didn't know

0:37:50.200 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 2>what they were doing, and you know, they were going

0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:54.880
<v Speaker 2>to Europe and drinking and having fun, and I was like, well,

0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:57.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm at home because I've left UNI so that I

0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:00.640
<v Speaker 2>could care for my mom. There's so many things that

0:38:00.800 --> 0:38:03.560
<v Speaker 2>as you grow up and you learn stuff, you can

0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:05.399
<v Speaker 2>apply it, but no one that I and you would

0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 2>learned anything yet, Like yeah, it was just fuck, we

0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 2>still haven't. But you know, you just don't have the

0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.799
<v Speaker 2>like emotional maturity to try and talk to somebody about that.

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.360
<v Speaker 2>So I felt like all of my friends ignored me.

0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:20.600
<v Speaker 2>I felt like they ignored what was going on and

0:38:20.719 --> 0:38:23.640
<v Speaker 2>just thought that I would be able to figure it out,

0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.560
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't. Like, I don't think of it. I

0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:28.440
<v Speaker 2>don't have an ounce of pride in me that I

0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:30.040
<v Speaker 2>handled it well. I don't think I did.

0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:33.200
<v Speaker 1>What's your relationship with those friends? Like now?

0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't really have a lot of friends from that

0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:39.040
<v Speaker 2>period now, like because it was a lot of school

0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:42.760
<v Speaker 2>friends that I still kind of saw and whatever. Yeah,

0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:45.960
<v Speaker 2>so I think that mostly now it's like uni friends

0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:48.080
<v Speaker 2>or friends that I went on to like meet working

0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:50.600
<v Speaker 2>in radio or whatever, just because it was just too

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.080
<v Speaker 2>hard for them and it was too hard for me. Yeah,

0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:55.920
<v Speaker 2>sometimes you need to, I hate to say it, start fresh,

0:38:55.920 --> 0:38:58.319
<v Speaker 2>but sometimes like having attachments to different parts of your

0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:00.879
<v Speaker 2>life is not what you need. Having said that, how

0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:05.399
<v Speaker 2>has grief evolved for you now? When you're hitting these

0:39:05.400 --> 0:39:07.960
<v Speaker 2>like huge milestones and you have huge successes and like

0:39:08.000 --> 0:39:09.839
<v Speaker 2>you said, you've written best selling books and you've got

0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:14.880
<v Speaker 2>hit podcasts, what's it like experiencing that where you still

0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:19.080
<v Speaker 2>grieve your mum and your loss but also you've just

0:39:19.120 --> 0:39:20.759
<v Speaker 2>gotten on with it at the same time, Like I

0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:26.440
<v Speaker 2>imagine that is a very conflicting feeling. Yeah, Like I

0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:29.480
<v Speaker 2>just wish I could tell her because I just know

0:39:29.560 --> 0:39:33.640
<v Speaker 2>that she'd be so happy, Like I just know that

0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.160
<v Speaker 2>she would be so so pumped for me, and I

0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:38.680
<v Speaker 2>know that she would love it. And I know that

0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:40.960
<v Speaker 2>every morning i'd get a text at five point thirty

0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:43.600
<v Speaker 2>being like, all loved what you said about this today

0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.719
<v Speaker 2>on the podcast. Like, I just know that she would

0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:49.960
<v Speaker 2>love it, and I know that she would love Ryan

0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.920
<v Speaker 2>as well, you know, And there's just so many parts

0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.319
<v Speaker 2>of my life that Yeah, like I've now got a

0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:59.600
<v Speaker 2>partner who I've been with for ten years who didn't

0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 2>meet her, Like I've been with him for so long,

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:09.600
<v Speaker 2>and that was after she died. Like how how are

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:13.479
<v Speaker 2>those two things on the same timeline. Yeah, Like it's

0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:15.680
<v Speaker 2>just so wild to me, and it just makes me

0:40:15.719 --> 0:40:18.719
<v Speaker 2>so fucking sad. Like, but I'd say that the way

0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:21.520
<v Speaker 2>that I've grown with the grief, like they say that

0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:24.239
<v Speaker 2>the grief doesn't get smaller, your life just kind of

0:40:24.760 --> 0:40:28.920
<v Speaker 2>learns to surround it. And I think that there's probably

0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 2>some guilt for me associated with like having this amazing

0:40:32.560 --> 0:40:35.720
<v Speaker 2>life where I laugh every day and I don't laugh

0:40:35.760 --> 0:40:38.799
<v Speaker 2>all day every day, but I laugh every day, and

0:40:38.840 --> 0:40:40.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, so you don't care about your mum.

0:40:40.920 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 2>And there's some times where I feel really guilty that

0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:46.680
<v Speaker 2>I have this great life when well, how dare you? Like,

0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:48.640
<v Speaker 2>oh so you reckon you're so sad about your mum,

0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:51.560
<v Speaker 2>But like you go and you enjoy your life. But

0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:53.760
<v Speaker 2>I think that I've just learned that like my life

0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:55.440
<v Speaker 2>is for me, it's not for anybody else, And it

0:40:55.480 --> 0:40:58.279
<v Speaker 2>comes and goes in waves. And there's parts of my

0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:00.759
<v Speaker 2>life that make me really sad because I think about

0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:02.680
<v Speaker 2>my mom and I wish that she was here. And

0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:05.160
<v Speaker 2>then like in the car on the way here this morning,

0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:07.560
<v Speaker 2>our song played on my Spotify and I had a

0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:10.799
<v Speaker 2>boogiy because she really loved that song, you know. So

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it's also just, yeah, the waves of knowing

0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:17.960
<v Speaker 2>that I'm allowed to be happy, I'm allowed to enjoy

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:21.160
<v Speaker 2>my life, and I give myself permission to enjoy my life,

0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:24.759
<v Speaker 2>and I give myself permission to be sad because two

0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:27.680
<v Speaker 2>things can be true at once. Yeah, do you think

0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:30.880
<v Speaker 2>there is any link tenuous or not for you with

0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:34.520
<v Speaker 2>your decision not to have kids to losing your mom

0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:36.560
<v Speaker 2>and going through that when you were almost still a kid.

0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:40.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't actually know. I think like my mom loved

0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:43.719
<v Speaker 2>being a mom, Like her biggest achievement was that she

0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:45.879
<v Speaker 2>loved all of us and she looked after all of us,

0:41:45.920 --> 0:41:48.520
<v Speaker 2>and like, so there's four kids in my family. I've

0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:51.719
<v Speaker 2>got three siblings, and yeah, she just loved it. And

0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I know that that was just her biggest achievement. I guess.

0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:57.560
<v Speaker 2>So there's parts of me that's like, oh, but for me,

0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:00.279
<v Speaker 2>like my career is such a huge thing, Like I

0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 2>don't want my kids to feel like they're competing vuying

0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:06.520
<v Speaker 2>for my attention for my job, you know, which like

0:42:06.560 --> 0:42:08.839
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be the case, but maybe I wouldn't be able

0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:11.279
<v Speaker 2>to juggle that. I don't know. I don't really think

0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:13.960
<v Speaker 2>that there's I mean, somewhere there might be a link,

0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:18.279
<v Speaker 2>but I think sorry, might need to go back to

0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:20.239
<v Speaker 2>therapy for that one. I probably should have last like, yeah, no,

0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:22.960
<v Speaker 2>that's a that's a tough one. Nah, But I think

0:42:23.040 --> 0:42:25.880
<v Speaker 2>it is actually a really good question because they're probably somewhere.

0:42:26.040 --> 0:42:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Is I also just think I love having money, and

0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:32.400
<v Speaker 2>I've heard that parents don't have a lot of money.

0:42:32.680 --> 0:42:36.440
<v Speaker 1>It's kids are expensive, they are there.

0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:39.880
<v Speaker 2>What's the reaction like, because I want to say this

0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:42.360
<v Speaker 2>now because I just laughed when we're talking about grief,

0:42:42.400 --> 0:42:44.160
<v Speaker 2>and I don't want people take that the wrong way,

0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:46.320
<v Speaker 2>but you handle grief with humor.

0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:47.799
<v Speaker 1>What's the reaction like?

0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Mainly when you use these I mean comedic timing surrounding

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:55.799
<v Speaker 2>talking about your mother's death normally pretty split crowd. I

0:42:55.840 --> 0:42:58.600
<v Speaker 2>feel like some people just love it and I'm like, oh,

0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:03.920
<v Speaker 2>you have a dead parent a they go, yeah. There

0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:07.760
<v Speaker 2>was like a video that went viral not that long ago,

0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:10.160
<v Speaker 2>and it sees two sisters and they're sitting at the

0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:13.520
<v Speaker 2>table and they're laughing because one of them did was

0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:17.760
<v Speaker 2>pregnant at their mum's funeral and like, do you remember

0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:19.920
<v Speaker 2>this video? Like we've seen it and they lose it

0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:22.840
<v Speaker 2>and they're like they're laughing and they're like, so I

0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:24.799
<v Speaker 2>just want to say, Mom, I'm so sorry for doing

0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 2>this at your funeral, but like I couldn't help it,

0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:29.440
<v Speaker 2>and they're like laughing, and I was like, here's a

0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 2>good social experiment. I'm like reading the comments and there's

0:43:32.040 --> 0:43:34.520
<v Speaker 2>all these people like, oh, you just you know your

0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:36.759
<v Speaker 2>mum better? Than anybody of course, like you know what

0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:38.759
<v Speaker 2>she would like and this is so funny and I like,

0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:40.880
<v Speaker 2>thanks for the laugh. Then there's people are like, this

0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:44.920
<v Speaker 2>is so disrespectful and how dare you? And I just

0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:47.480
<v Speaker 2>think I'm actually allowed to say it because it's my

0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:50.719
<v Speaker 2>lived experience. Would I say that on behalf of anybody else,

0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely not, But for me, that's what makes sense. And

0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:57.040
<v Speaker 2>for me, I know that my mom would love it.

0:43:57.280 --> 0:43:59.160
<v Speaker 2>I know that she would be laughing. I know that

0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:02.200
<v Speaker 2>she would think it's so funny that she's part of

0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:05.279
<v Speaker 2>my life still because I get to laugh and joke

0:44:05.320 --> 0:44:11.560
<v Speaker 2>about her. And I don't think that people understand how

0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:15.359
<v Speaker 2>powerful that connection is, like getting to laugh and joke

0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:18.839
<v Speaker 2>about my mum when normally, like I'm expecting, what you're

0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:22.480
<v Speaker 2>telling me is you can only talk about that if

0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:27.319
<v Speaker 2>you're sad, Like the only the associated feeling with your

0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:31.399
<v Speaker 2>grief should be sadness and embarrassment and like wanting to

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:34.640
<v Speaker 2>hide yourself away and like feel ashamed. I'm not ashamed

0:44:34.680 --> 0:44:36.840
<v Speaker 2>to have grief. I'm not ashamed to like want to

0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:40.640
<v Speaker 2>laugh about something that happened to me. It's my experience.

0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:41.960
<v Speaker 2>I can do what I want with it. You know

0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not hurting anybody.

0:44:43.600 --> 0:44:45.840
<v Speaker 3>We had a similar experience recently and I'm going to

0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 3>laugh saying the story again, but fuck it didn't go

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:50.799
<v Speaker 3>to plan. My grandparents were like real parental figures for me,

0:44:50.840 --> 0:44:52.680
<v Speaker 3>Like I grew up with my grandparents, I live with them,

0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:56.640
<v Speaker 3>and we've waited to scatter my grandparents' ashes together. They

0:44:56.640 --> 0:45:00.400
<v Speaker 3>were married for sixty seven years and Nan passed away. Yeah,

0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:03.480
<v Speaker 3>it was really sweet, but scattering ashes is not sweet.

0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:06.279
<v Speaker 3>And the plume of dust that covered everyone that was

0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:07.000
<v Speaker 3>there was not.

0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Sweet when it shouldn't have gone.

0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:11.719
<v Speaker 3>Down my top and there's all these people that look

0:45:11.760 --> 0:45:14.040
<v Speaker 3>at like it was just it was like a comedy show.

0:45:14.080 --> 0:45:16.000
<v Speaker 3>It was like something that you would expect to be on,

0:45:16.080 --> 0:45:18.680
<v Speaker 3>like a black comedy. It was not funny, and it

0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:21.080
<v Speaker 3>was so funny at the same time. And I had

0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:22.600
<v Speaker 3>this real moment where we were telling the story in

0:45:22.640 --> 0:45:24.400
<v Speaker 3>the podcast and I was like, Fuck, someone's going to

0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:26.920
<v Speaker 3>be offended. Someone is going to be offended because this

0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:30.120
<v Speaker 3>wasn't their version of scattering their loved ones ashes.

0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:32.000
<v Speaker 2>And also because we leant in.

0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:33.960
<v Speaker 3>And we laughed and we made jokes, and I was like,

0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:36.880
<v Speaker 3>and you know, like for us, yes, it should have

0:45:36.880 --> 0:45:39.600
<v Speaker 3>been a very reverend day, but everyone was laughing. And

0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:42.040
<v Speaker 3>it's because I know Papa wouldn't have given a shit.

0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:43.840
<v Speaker 3>He would have been like, Haha, that one's for you.

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:45.440
<v Speaker 3>I know you can take that, Laura. When I was

0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:49.600
<v Speaker 3>like covered from head to toe and ash.

0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:50.799
<v Speaker 2>He was down her pants, it was everywhere.

0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:55.799
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, grief is complex, and like there's moments where

0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:57.680
<v Speaker 3>it flows you, and then there's moments where you do

0:45:57.920 --> 0:45:59.800
<v Speaker 3>find the funny in it, and it's not the funny

0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:01.440
<v Speaker 3>in the grief, but it's just the funny and the

0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:04.400
<v Speaker 3>absolute absurdity of how extreme.

0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:05.120
<v Speaker 1>The emotions are.

0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:08.239
<v Speaker 3>Totally and I think that anyone who's experienced it will

0:46:08.239 --> 0:46:10.160
<v Speaker 3>absolutely be able to understand that part of it.

0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:12.640
<v Speaker 1>I would love to know.

0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:14.120
<v Speaker 3>And I mean, you know, we touched on a little

0:46:14.120 --> 0:46:16.680
<v Speaker 3>bit around the successes and also like how life takes

0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:20.320
<v Speaker 3>a different path and then it continues and you have

0:46:20.440 --> 0:46:23.000
<v Speaker 3>these things that happen after the person you love passes away,

0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:26.280
<v Speaker 3>but one of those things being your partner of ten years.

0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:28.960
<v Speaker 3>How did you guys meet and you know, how do

0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:30.799
<v Speaker 3>you find a man who's willing to come and pick

0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:32.680
<v Speaker 3>up your shit on a Monday?

0:46:33.719 --> 0:46:35.120
<v Speaker 2>You don't really matter to pick up your ship.

0:46:35.440 --> 0:46:35.759
<v Speaker 1>He would.

0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:40.520
<v Speaker 2>That wouldn't never, Ben would? He would? He would. Ben

0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:43.320
<v Speaker 2>would hold the bag for me while I shat in it. Yeah,

0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:46.080
<v Speaker 2>I reckon like he'd hold it out. He might. Actually,

0:46:46.080 --> 0:46:47.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to ask him once his podcast.

0:46:47.880 --> 0:46:48.359
<v Speaker 1>Test him.

0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:51.839
<v Speaker 2>That's healthy, test him. Yeah, give him the situation. What

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:57.839
<v Speaker 2>would would you a no, hypothetically, babe, hypothetically? Yeah, listen

0:46:57.880 --> 0:46:59.920
<v Speaker 2>to today's episode and let me know what you would do.

0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:04.080
<v Speaker 2>We met at UNI actually not very original, but like

0:47:04.360 --> 0:47:08.480
<v Speaker 2>very casual and normal. I guess. We were studying sound

0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:11.160
<v Speaker 2>engineering together and he was like a year below me,

0:47:11.239 --> 0:47:13.440
<v Speaker 2>so we kind of worked on a couple of like

0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:17.200
<v Speaker 2>projects together and whatever, and he like lived on my

0:47:17.360 --> 0:47:20.000
<v Speaker 2>way home. We would be in the theater till you know,

0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:22.919
<v Speaker 2>like eleven or twelve o'clock, and I'd be like, oh, well,

0:47:23.000 --> 0:47:24.839
<v Speaker 2>what are you going to do? Catch the bas like, oh,

0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:26.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll drop you off. And we kind of just like

0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:29.040
<v Speaker 2>got to know each other and it was a really

0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:33.760
<v Speaker 2>just easy person to talk to. And at that time,

0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:36.319
<v Speaker 2>like my mum was alive, but she was really sick,

0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:39.760
<v Speaker 2>and so we kind of talked. I remember like vividly

0:47:39.840 --> 0:47:43.120
<v Speaker 2>this one conversation being like, oh, no, I'm so mysterious.

0:47:43.120 --> 0:47:46.000
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, you are the least mysterious person like

0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I've ever met in my life. And I was like, nah,

0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:51.880
<v Speaker 2>like you don't know me, you know, like I'm just

0:47:51.960 --> 0:47:54.799
<v Speaker 2>a snotty, like nineteen year old and he's just like, nah,

0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:57.160
<v Speaker 2>I know that, like your mum's about to die and

0:47:57.200 --> 0:48:03.440
<v Speaker 2>that you're probably gonna leave UNI. And I was just like, okay, cool,

0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:05.680
<v Speaker 2>so you have been listening to what I was saying.

0:48:06.440 --> 0:48:09.120
<v Speaker 2>And then yeah, like she passed away and I left

0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:11.319
<v Speaker 2>UNI and then I rejoined and I ended up being

0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:14.000
<v Speaker 2>in his year, so I got dropped down. I had

0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:16.919
<v Speaker 2>to do second year again kind of thing anyway, and yeah,

0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:19.920
<v Speaker 2>so we just kept dropping him home and you know,

0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:21.640
<v Speaker 2>like all of these things, we just got to know

0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 2>each other really well, and we had so much in common.

0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.440
<v Speaker 2>But there was also so much that he knew about

0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:28.640
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't know about. And it was like the

0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:33.400
<v Speaker 2>exact relationship I needed. And I don't mean romantic relationship necessarily,

0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:36.080
<v Speaker 2>but he was the person that I needed in that time,

0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Like he was just really caring and willing to listen

0:48:39.280 --> 0:48:43.240
<v Speaker 2>and like funny and wouldn't let me wallow in my bullshit,

0:48:43.280 --> 0:48:45.680
<v Speaker 2>but also let me wallow my bullshit when I needed to.

0:48:46.239 --> 0:48:48.880
<v Speaker 2>I think it's really important to have people that really

0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:52.120
<v Speaker 2>know what you need and can assess the situation and

0:48:52.160 --> 0:48:54.719
<v Speaker 2>not just like write things off like it's not like, oh,

0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:56.560
<v Speaker 2>well last week he cried and I did this, so

0:48:56.680 --> 0:48:58.200
<v Speaker 2>this is what I'm going to do again. He's a

0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:01.400
<v Speaker 2>really thoughtful, really caring person, and I think I just

0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:04.920
<v Speaker 2>really needed someone that could hear me out. And yeah,

0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:07.640
<v Speaker 2>and then we actually just like started sleeping together, and

0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:09.560
<v Speaker 2>we was sleeping together for like nine months to a

0:49:09.640 --> 0:49:11.880
<v Speaker 2>year or something, and then I was like, I actually

0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:14.080
<v Speaker 2>really like you, will you go out with me? And

0:49:14.120 --> 0:49:17.960
<v Speaker 2>he was like okay. And it was the most awkward

0:49:17.960 --> 0:49:20.120
<v Speaker 2>thing because then I was like, cool, I've got to

0:49:20.120 --> 0:49:23.359
<v Speaker 2>go to my shift at Colt's like with a boyfriendly,

0:49:24.560 --> 0:49:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Like I've got to get to the Delian. So I

0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:31.360
<v Speaker 2>asked this boy out and then I'm like cool, bye,

0:49:31.400 --> 0:49:33.520
<v Speaker 2>like I've got to go shave some ham. Ah good,

0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:37.360
<v Speaker 2>you knew him when your mom was still here, but

0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:40.480
<v Speaker 2>you went romantic until after she'd gone. So was there

0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:42.759
<v Speaker 2>a part of you that did she ever know about

0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:46.279
<v Speaker 2>him as a friend? Like? Ah, right, because he was

0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:47.839
<v Speaker 2>just one of the boys I went to UNI with

0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:51.600
<v Speaker 2>and there was like two girls in our course, so

0:49:51.800 --> 0:49:54.520
<v Speaker 2>there was it was mostly boys. So it wasn't like, oh,

0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:56.600
<v Speaker 2>there's a boy in Uni. It was just like yeah,

0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:58.759
<v Speaker 2>like all the guys, you know, Like it was just

0:49:58.840 --> 0:50:01.399
<v Speaker 2>it was nothing. So nah, she didn't know about him,

0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:04.040
<v Speaker 2>which is it's it's shame, Like I'm really sad she

0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:06.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't get to meet him, because I think that they

0:50:06.520 --> 0:50:10.040
<v Speaker 2>would get along really well. Tobes has got like a

0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:12.399
<v Speaker 2>really dry sense of humor, and so does my mom,

0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:14.640
<v Speaker 2>So I think that they would have You know, when

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:16.920
<v Speaker 2>you hear about those couples where the boyfriend is on

0:50:17.160 --> 0:50:22.480
<v Speaker 2>her mom's side, they would gang up against me. I think, yeah.

0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:25.960
<v Speaker 2>And then what is next for you? Because I feel

0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:28.640
<v Speaker 2>like you've ticked so many boxes and kicked so many goals,

0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Like where do you dream of going individually? Because personally

0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:35.400
<v Speaker 2>I see you on like a comedy circuit, that's what

0:50:35.440 --> 0:50:37.640
<v Speaker 2>I see. I think you're so funny and you're so brilliant.

0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:41.040
<v Speaker 2>But where do you see yourself individually? And Tony in right,

0:50:41.320 --> 0:50:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I just really want to be happy.

0:50:43.680 --> 0:50:45.799
<v Speaker 2>I just really want to keep doing things that make

0:50:45.840 --> 0:50:49.440
<v Speaker 2>me happy. And I think rather than try and come

0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:51.360
<v Speaker 2>up with what that might look like, I think that

0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:54.640
<v Speaker 2>in this kind of job, you can't really ever predict it,

0:50:54.719 --> 0:50:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Like things just come up and you have to say

0:50:56.760 --> 0:51:01.160
<v Speaker 2>yes or no. And I actually, like a few years ago,

0:51:01.200 --> 0:51:03.880
<v Speaker 2>wrote down this list of non negotiables, which I really

0:51:03.920 --> 0:51:06.560
<v Speaker 2>fucking recommend if you have never ever sat down and

0:51:06.560 --> 0:51:10.000
<v Speaker 2>being really honest with yourself about non negotiables for your life,

0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:13.719
<v Speaker 2>I recommend it. Five things that, like, before you die,

0:51:13.840 --> 0:51:15.920
<v Speaker 2>you know that you need to do, rather than a

0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:18.040
<v Speaker 2>bucket list of like I'd love to get these things done.

0:51:18.320 --> 0:51:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Five things that you will not leave this earth without achieving.

0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:23.680
<v Speaker 1>What were your non negotiables?

0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:27.879
<v Speaker 2>One of them was being on a billboard, which I did.

0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:32.799
<v Speaker 3>Fucking that is so good, And I will not leave

0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:35.120
<v Speaker 3>this earth unless I'm on a billboard.

0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:37.800
<v Speaker 2>It's so funny because I've been pushing for a billboard,

0:51:38.120 --> 0:51:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Laura to Laura, I mean, the thing about a billboard

0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:43.239
<v Speaker 2>is that the billboard doesn't do anything, but how good's

0:51:43.280 --> 0:51:44.800
<v Speaker 2>the photo of you in front of the billboard?

0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:45.400
<v Speaker 3>You know?

0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:49.359
<v Speaker 2>That was one of them. And actually the last thing

0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:52.240
<v Speaker 2>that I have to tick off or excuse me aside

0:51:52.239 --> 0:51:55.040
<v Speaker 2>from living overseas. That's one of my non negotiables. The

0:51:55.120 --> 0:51:57.600
<v Speaker 2>last thing that I'm going to kick off actually this

0:51:57.719 --> 0:52:02.799
<v Speaker 2>year is hosting family Christmas in my own house. Oh nice,

0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:07.640
<v Speaker 2>you're so cute. I love you. So we are Toms

0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.280
<v Speaker 2>and I. We're hosting Christmas at our house. My sister

0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:12.960
<v Speaker 2>and her husband and their boys are coming. We're cooking,

0:52:13.000 --> 0:52:16.839
<v Speaker 2>we're doing everything, and I am so thrilled. And I

0:52:16.880 --> 0:52:19.000
<v Speaker 2>think that the most exciting part about that is that

0:52:19.040 --> 0:52:21.640
<v Speaker 2>It's been a really, really really long time since I've

0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:24.480
<v Speaker 2>had a goal that wasn't work related. Yeah.

0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:25.680
<v Speaker 1>It's really amazing, isn't it.

0:52:25.719 --> 0:52:27.640
<v Speaker 3>And it's so easy to have work related goals and

0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:29.840
<v Speaker 3>not have those like family moments.

0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Because they just feel so tangible, like a work thing

0:52:32.200 --> 0:52:34.799
<v Speaker 2>you're working at it every day, whereas I think I've

0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:37.719
<v Speaker 2>just like left myself behind a little bit. And so

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm really really excited to do that. Yeah. Like I'm

0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:44.280
<v Speaker 2>just I'm fucking pumped. Where do you want to live overseas? Oh?

0:52:44.360 --> 0:52:48.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't care, just that experience. Yeah, I just want

0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:50.560
<v Speaker 2>to know that I've done it. Ryan and I actually

0:52:50.600 --> 0:52:54.240
<v Speaker 2>at the moment are very obsessed with like TikTok BALI

0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:57.600
<v Speaker 2>real estate. Like I don't know if you guys get

0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:03.879
<v Speaker 2>those videos in your algorithm twenty five dollars, yes, and

0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:05.839
<v Speaker 2>so it's like this amazing villa and it's like live

0:53:05.880 --> 0:53:08.240
<v Speaker 2>here for six dollars a day and you go, oh okay,

0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Like so we're really obsessed with that at the moment.

0:53:11.760 --> 0:53:14.160
<v Speaker 2>So maybe BALI, I don't know. I don't really care

0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:16.839
<v Speaker 2>as long as it's somewhere that my French bulldog can come.

0:53:17.520 --> 0:53:20.680
<v Speaker 2>And that's basically my only requirement.

0:53:21.160 --> 0:53:22.960
<v Speaker 1>And you've got two more are the other two bucket

0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:23.919
<v Speaker 1>list things.

0:53:23.600 --> 0:53:28.080
<v Speaker 2>So I had also one of them was to actually

0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:30.680
<v Speaker 2>just be famous. I didn't really know what that looks like.

0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:34.680
<v Speaker 2>I love that you said that because people feel like

0:53:35.520 --> 0:53:37.480
<v Speaker 2>they can't say that. People feel like if they say

0:53:37.480 --> 0:53:40.640
<v Speaker 2>out loud, I want to be famous, especially in Australia,

0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:44.880
<v Speaker 2>in the Australian landscape, we hate feeling like anyone takes

0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:47.920
<v Speaker 2>ownership of what they want, especially something that is about

0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:50.000
<v Speaker 2>being famous. But I love that you just like I

0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:52.040
<v Speaker 2>want that. I want people to know who I am

0:53:52.360 --> 0:53:53.200
<v Speaker 2>for whatever I do.

0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:55.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think it's the being famous for what it's like,

0:53:55.960 --> 0:53:57.799
<v Speaker 3>the having the what you know, like, do you want

0:53:57.840 --> 0:53:59.520
<v Speaker 3>to be famous because you were that girl who shut

0:53:59.560 --> 0:54:01.000
<v Speaker 3>on the street. You made it to the news, Like,

0:54:01.080 --> 0:54:02.399
<v Speaker 3>or do you want to be famous for the thing

0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:03.200
<v Speaker 3>that you're proud of?

0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:05.719
<v Speaker 1>Like, there's different types of fame, and.

0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:08.520
<v Speaker 2>I think that's something that I unpacked as I kind

0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:11.920
<v Speaker 2>of got a bit older, and that it wasn't really

0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:15.840
<v Speaker 2>the fame part of it, but it was the fame

0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:19.160
<v Speaker 2>was like the avenue of doing a job that I loved,

0:54:19.440 --> 0:54:23.200
<v Speaker 2>because you know, you can't like be a singer or

0:54:23.239 --> 0:54:26.880
<v Speaker 2>be a dancer or be a comedian or whatever if

0:54:26.920 --> 0:54:29.400
<v Speaker 2>there's no audience like that just then is a hobby

0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:31.399
<v Speaker 2>and not like your full time job, Like that can't

0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:33.600
<v Speaker 2>be your full time job if there aren't people watching

0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:36.239
<v Speaker 2>you and paying to see you or whatever. So I

0:54:36.280 --> 0:54:38.400
<v Speaker 2>think that the fame was just the easiest way to

0:54:38.400 --> 0:54:40.319
<v Speaker 2>be like, well, if I'm famous, it means that I'm

0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:41.239
<v Speaker 2>doing something.

0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:42.799
<v Speaker 1>That I love and I'm good at it.

0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, and I'm probably doing like a very non

0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:48.680
<v Speaker 2>traditional job, you know. So that's what it looks like

0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:50.840
<v Speaker 2>for me in the end, was that it meant that

0:54:51.000 --> 0:54:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I could, yeah do a job that I was really

0:54:53.040 --> 0:54:54.600
<v Speaker 2>good at and that I loved, and that made me

0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:57.480
<v Speaker 2>really happy where you've ticked that off because people know

0:54:57.560 --> 0:55:02.120
<v Speaker 2>your name. Spotify knows your name. It's astronomical, it's acually real.

0:55:03.239 --> 0:55:05.480
<v Speaker 3>Tony is such a joy and we love I mean

0:55:05.640 --> 0:55:07.680
<v Speaker 3>where it was a long time coming, like we said,

0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:09.560
<v Speaker 3>a year of waiting to get you on the podcast.

0:55:09.960 --> 0:55:13.200
<v Speaker 3>We absolutely adore you and everything that you guys have achieved.

0:55:13.239 --> 0:55:15.600
<v Speaker 3>We love the podcast like Tony and Ryan. If you

0:55:15.600 --> 0:55:17.440
<v Speaker 3>haven't got to listen to it yet, go give it

0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:19.680
<v Speaker 3>a listen, but also get around to everything else that

0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:22.359
<v Speaker 3>Tony does, because you are genuinely just one of the

0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:24.759
<v Speaker 3>most and I hate the word authentic, but that is

0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:27.680
<v Speaker 3>exactly what you are. You're one of the most authentic people.

0:55:27.920 --> 0:55:29.319
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, you're a joy to speak to.

0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:31.400
<v Speaker 2>We heard on the podcast the other day that you

0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:33.920
<v Speaker 2>guys took some I shouldn't say took some. You use

0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:36.600
<v Speaker 2>some content from the lifelun Cut discussion group and you're

0:55:36.600 --> 0:55:39.000
<v Speaker 2>having a little laugh about it. We absolutely love hearing that.

0:55:39.080 --> 0:55:42.200
<v Speaker 2>I love to know that you guys, especially Ryan's lurking

0:55:42.239 --> 0:55:45.360
<v Speaker 2>in our Facebook discussion group. I know I get tagged

0:55:45.360 --> 0:55:47.560
<v Speaker 2>in stuff sometimes and I have a little nosy of

0:55:47.600 --> 0:55:49.920
<v Speaker 2>whatever people have tagged me, and I love it.

0:55:50.120 --> 0:55:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Wait, what have you been tagged in?

0:55:51.880 --> 0:55:54.319
<v Speaker 2>People just tag me in random stuff. I think that

0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:56.319
<v Speaker 2>there's like a bit of a thrill in being like

0:55:56.640 --> 0:56:00.200
<v Speaker 2>she's in this group because I'm also in this Oh

0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:02.560
<v Speaker 2>my god, this is hell dark, but I think you'll

0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:05.720
<v Speaker 2>like it. I'm also in this like dead mum discussion group,

0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:09.520
<v Speaker 2>and I get tagged in stuff all the time. People

0:56:09.520 --> 0:56:11.080
<v Speaker 2>are like, oh my god, you know that girl who's

0:56:11.080 --> 0:56:13.239
<v Speaker 2>got a dead mum, she's in here, and then just

0:56:13.280 --> 0:56:14.800
<v Speaker 2>like tag me, like tag Tony.

0:56:16.320 --> 0:56:17.160
<v Speaker 1>That's awful.

0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:20.359
<v Speaker 2>It's awful, but it's wholesome too.

0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:21.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, you found your group.

0:56:22.200 --> 0:56:24.920
<v Speaker 2>It is really lovely and the connection, as we were saying,

0:56:24.960 --> 0:56:27.920
<v Speaker 2>like it just really beats everything else that I thought,

0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:29.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, like you go, oh my god, it would

0:56:29.760 --> 0:56:31.040
<v Speaker 2>be so great to get to do all this stuff,

0:56:31.040 --> 0:56:32.879
<v Speaker 2>and then you go, wow, there's actually all this other

0:56:32.960 --> 0:56:36.000
<v Speaker 2>stuff that is so amazing about this kind of job,

0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:39.040
<v Speaker 2>and like reaching people that you just never could have

0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:41.840
<v Speaker 2>dreamed would ever hear what you had to say in

0:56:41.880 --> 0:56:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the best way.

0:56:43.360 --> 0:56:44.720
<v Speaker 1>It's so true. We absolutely agree.

0:56:44.800 --> 0:56:47.560
<v Speaker 2>You're an angel. Thanks Lendon. I love you guys. Thank

0:56:47.600 --> 0:56:48.239
<v Speaker 2>you for having me.

0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Tony, I thank you.

0:57:00.680 --> 0:57:03.440
<v Speaker 2>There were four bays stoking