WEBVTT - Should card surcharges be banned?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the daily this is the daily ours.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,

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<v Speaker 1>the sixteenth of October. I'm sam, I'm emma. Three of

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<v Speaker 1>Australia's major economic forces, the RBA, the arible C and

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<v Speaker 1>the federal government are coming together to crack down on

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<v Speaker 1>card surcharges. This week, the Albaneze government said it was

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<v Speaker 1>sending a message to payment providers like Visa, MasterCard and

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<v Speaker 1>American Express that the days of unfair or excessive surcharges

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<v Speaker 1>on credit and debit card payments by consumers by US

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<v Speaker 1>were numbered. On today's podcast, we're going to explain how

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<v Speaker 1>these charges currently work, why it's a problem, and what

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<v Speaker 1>the government is suggesting that we do about it. But first,

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<v Speaker 1>m what is making headlines.

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<v Speaker 3>The Federal government has updated its travel advice for Israel

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<v Speaker 3>and the occupied Palestinian territories amid concerns the security situation

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<v Speaker 3>there could deteriorate rapidly. Foreign Affairs Minister Penny Wong has

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<v Speaker 3>urged anyone in the region to leave now if it

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<v Speaker 3>is safe to do so, and mid concerns commercial flights

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<v Speaker 3>could be suspended. The official advice, per the Department of

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<v Speaker 3>Foreign Affairs Smart Traveler website, is do not travel to

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<v Speaker 3>the region due to the quote volatile security situation, armed conflict,

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<v Speaker 3>civil unrest and terrorism. The latest advice warned there was

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<v Speaker 3>an ongoing threat of missile and rocket attacks in Israel

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<v Speaker 3>and stressed quote terrorist attacks can occur anywhere at any time.

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<v Speaker 3>It follows days of escalations between the Israeli military and

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<v Speaker 3>Hesbala forces in Lebanon.

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<v Speaker 1>Melbourne's crownd Casino has been fined two million dollars for

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<v Speaker 1>allowing hundreds of Victorians who'd signed up to a self

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<v Speaker 1>exclusion gambling register to place bets at the casino. National

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<v Speaker 1>gambling harm prevention measures mean it's illegal for casinos to

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<v Speaker 1>allow anyone who is self excluded to enter gambling venues.

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<v Speaker 1>The Victorian Gambling Watchdog alleges Crown allowed almost two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty people on an exclusion register to place bets

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<v Speaker 1>at their venue between October of twenty twenty three and

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<v Speaker 1>May this year. The state regulator said Crown Melbourne's actions

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<v Speaker 1>were also in breach of their obligation quote to protect

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<v Speaker 1>people at risk of gambling harm.

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<v Speaker 3>US rapper Sean Diddy Combs is facing a new wave

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<v Speaker 3>of lawsuits that accuse him of further sexual misconduct. At

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<v Speaker 3>least six new lawsuits were filed this week in the

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<v Speaker 3>Federal court in New York. The legal action has been

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<v Speaker 3>launched by four anonymous men and two anonymous women who

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<v Speaker 3>have detailed alleged incidents dating back as far as the nineties.

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<v Speaker 3>In a statement to US news outlet CNN, Comb's lawyer

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<v Speaker 3>said the US rapper and producer has quote never sexually

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<v Speaker 3>assaulted anyone. Monday's legal action joins a growing list of

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<v Speaker 3>lawsuits again it's the rapper, accusing him of a range

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<v Speaker 3>of sexual misconduct and other illegal activity, which he has denied.

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<v Speaker 3>Combs currently remains in custody after his arrest in New

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<v Speaker 3>York last month on sex trafficking charges, to which he

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<v Speaker 3>has pleaded not guilty.

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<v Speaker 1>And Today's Good News, an environmental group has gathered in

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<v Speaker 1>New South Wales to plant its one millionth tree. Since

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty, members of the Foundation for National Parks and

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<v Speaker 1>Wildlife have come together in Sydney's Northwest to continue what

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<v Speaker 1>it calls its Landscape Resilience Program. It's a national project

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<v Speaker 1>focused on maintaining the health of natural areas threatened by

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<v Speaker 1>bushfires and floods. Since the twenty nineteen twenty twenty bushfires,

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<v Speaker 1>the group has saved more than six hundred thousand hectares,

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred and ninety six plant species, and twenty five

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<v Speaker 1>threatened wildlife species. The group has lofty aims. They plan

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<v Speaker 1>to plant eight million trees by twenty thirty.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, Sam, today talking about something that well and truly

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<v Speaker 3>impacts each and every one of us. Card surcharges.

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<v Speaker 1>I go as far as saying it impacts us all

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<v Speaker 1>every day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, truly. You know what I'm talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>If you've ever been at the checkout, you take your

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<v Speaker 3>card out, you're about to pay for something, and all

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<v Speaker 3>of a sudden, the price jumps up.

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<v Speaker 1>Just because just a couple of cents.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, a couple of cents depending where you are,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe astronomically for reasons that you can't explain. So before

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<v Speaker 3>we dive into what this all means, where it all

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<v Speaker 3>comes from, let's start with what a surcharge actually is.

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<v Speaker 3>Why do these little extra payments on top of our

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<v Speaker 3>transactions exist.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, basically, it's an amount or a percentage that a

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<v Speaker 1>business adds to the price of a product or a service.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're buying your coffee, it's four dollars. You get

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<v Speaker 1>to the checkout, it's four dollars and seven cents. And

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<v Speaker 1>that cost covers for the business, either partially or sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>the entire cost the fee that the business has to

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<v Speaker 1>pay to their payment facilitator. And when we say payment facilitator,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about the master cards, the visas, the American Expresses,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the people who provide them with the payment

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<v Speaker 1>gateways to collect payment from us and then funnel it

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<v Speaker 1>back into a bank account.

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<v Speaker 3>Got it. So we've got us the consumer, the bank,

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<v Speaker 3>the business, and the provider exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And for a business to use Visa, let's say, to

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<v Speaker 1>collect payments, Visa has to make money somehow, and so

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<v Speaker 1>they make money on every transaction. Now, big businesses will

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<v Speaker 1>cover that transaction because they kind of don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>go through the routine that the checkout of you realizing

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<v Speaker 1>there's a bit extra, so you go to let's say

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<v Speaker 1>a department store or a big pharmacy chain. They'll actually

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<v Speaker 1>just absorb that themselves. It's more the small businesses, say

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<v Speaker 1>hospitality or small retail, that will add that on top. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the surcharge does vary based on if you've inserted your card,

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<v Speaker 1>if you've tapped your card, it's generally more more expensive

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<v Speaker 1>to tap your card, and who the payment facilitator is. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you might recognize from kind of shop windows

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<v Speaker 1>that American Express is always a bit more expensive for

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<v Speaker 1>businesses to accept. They often pass that on to a consumer,

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<v Speaker 1>and consumers like using American Express because there's rewards programs

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<v Speaker 1>and extra incentives. Now, according to a recent article from

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<v Speaker 1>the RBA, you can expect to be charged an extra

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<v Speaker 1>point two percent on the average FPOs transaction, but an

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<v Speaker 1>AMEX fee will normally be about an average of one

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<v Speaker 1>point four percent, So it can be quite a range.

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<v Speaker 3>And one thing that I've noticed more and more, especially

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<v Speaker 3>with online purchasing, you might get to the checkout and

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<v Speaker 3>you'll see, you know, a whole range of payment options,

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<v Speaker 3>whether that's PayPal, a buy now, pay later, credit card,

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<v Speaker 3>whatever it is. And I've appreciated and been surprised by

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<v Speaker 3>the clarity of the specific surcharge amounts. You can really

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<v Speaker 3>see that a couple of different options that might all

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<v Speaker 3>kind of seem like they're coming from the same place

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<v Speaker 3>or going to the same place can be charged between

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<v Speaker 3>zero points something to two percent on those different options,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think consumers a starting to get more savvy

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<v Speaker 3>on okay, which payment option is going to screw me

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<v Speaker 3>over the least.

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<v Speaker 1>Here definitely, And I think for the RBA and the

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<v Speaker 1>ahrip'll see, they are really closely regulating this space. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think those examples online that you're talking about, that's

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<v Speaker 1>probably not by the choice of the retailer. It's now

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<v Speaker 1>a really important area of compliance. But before we go on,

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to make one quick distinction, because you

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<v Speaker 1>just mentioned it. It's really important to remember the difference

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<v Speaker 1>between a credit card and a debit card, and credit

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<v Speaker 1>card fees and debit card fees. So a debit card

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<v Speaker 1>is a card that gives you access straight to your bank,

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<v Speaker 1>and the big thing we're talking about today are the

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<v Speaker 1>fees attached to that credit card fees when you're spending

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<v Speaker 1>money that technically isn't yours and then you pay it

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<v Speaker 1>back monthly or at an interval, those fees are kind

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<v Speaker 1>of out of scope for this discussion.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we're talking as well about transaction fees, so

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<v Speaker 3>the cost of buying something in the moment using an

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<v Speaker 3>electronic payment method for that, rather than a credit card

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<v Speaker 3>fee that might be associated with just owning the credit

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<v Speaker 3>card exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think if you really boil it down, and

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<v Speaker 1>if you're feeling like you're getting a bit lost in

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<v Speaker 1>all of this financial talk, the big question being asked

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<v Speaker 1>by government is should you be charged a fee to

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<v Speaker 1>access money that's already yours.

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<v Speaker 3>So there is some regulation in this space that you've

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<v Speaker 3>touched on a little bit. It's not just the wild West, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So the RBA sets the rules un surcharging. The HPLEC

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<v Speaker 1>enforces those rules. Merchants, as you see online and in

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<v Speaker 1>real life, they are allowed to surcharge, but it's only

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<v Speaker 1>up to what's called the cost of acceptance for that

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<v Speaker 1>particular type of card. This kind of benchmark set for

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<v Speaker 1>a Visa versus an AMEX versus a master card. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a really complex system. Some different cards have different costs.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes those differences are communicated to consumers in different ways.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes they are a flat sometimes there are a percentage.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'll often see a cafe do a flat fee,

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<v Speaker 1>and let's say that your flat fee is fifty cents

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<v Speaker 1>for a transaction. They might say a minimum of ten

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<v Speaker 1>dollars for an FPOs machine charge. You can go under that,

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<v Speaker 1>but you have to pay fifty cents. If you're paying

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<v Speaker 1>fifty cents on a four dollar coffee, then you're paying

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<v Speaker 1>an extra twelve and a half percent on your coffee.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a lot of variability here, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of what the government wants to talk about.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so it's not illegal for businesses to impose these

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<v Speaker 3>card surcharges, But basically what you're saying is excessive payment

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<v Speaker 3>surch charges are not allowed. The surcharge has to kind

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<v Speaker 3>of be justifiable within reason that it's got to sort

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<v Speaker 3>of reasonably cover the business's cost to run that transaction exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>But as we're using cash less and less, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>the latest stats is that about thirteen percent of retail

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<v Speaker 1>transactions are done by cash. The rest is all electronic payments.

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<v Speaker 1>I think what's reason and what's not probably needs a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more exploring from the consumer perspective.

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<v Speaker 3>Because it doesn't really feel optional for the consumer.

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<v Speaker 2>If, like you say, you know, we're moving towards a

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<v Speaker 2>cashless society.

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<v Speaker 3>Most young people are not walking around with a spare

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<v Speaker 3>twenty bucks in their pocket to pay for that coffee

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<v Speaker 3>to avoid that twelve point five percent so charge example.

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<v Speaker 3>But despite it being a couple of cents here and there,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure that that adds up for the individual, for

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<v Speaker 3>the economy. Do we know how much it adds up?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the RBA estimates it's between one billion dollars in

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<v Speaker 1>search charges, and some estimates are putting it up to

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<v Speaker 1>as high as four billion dollars. It's costing businesses, So

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<v Speaker 1>the businesses that are absorbing those costs themselves. It's costing

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<v Speaker 1>businesses two billion dollars a year to make those payments

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<v Speaker 1>to payment company. So we're talking a lot of money here.

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<v Speaker 1>I know it doesn't feel like a lot because it's

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<v Speaker 1>in such tiny increments, but it really does add up.

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<v Speaker 3>It certainly does add up. And it's interesting you mentioned

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<v Speaker 3>they're the cost to businesses. I think us consumers can

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes have a bit of a perspective that it's the

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<v Speaker 3>businesses trying to roop us off, rather than there being

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<v Speaker 3>a whole chain of transactional stakeholders I guess from your

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<v Speaker 3>visas to the businesses. So either way you cut it,

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<v Speaker 3>the consumer or the business ends up paying for these

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<v Speaker 3>fees to the payment providers just to make the purchases

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<v Speaker 3>in their everyday life, and even though it is five

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<v Speaker 3>cents here or there, it does add up. So you

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<v Speaker 3>said this week that the government has made big announcements

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<v Speaker 3>about how to regulate this space.

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<v Speaker 2>What have they suggested.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the governments come out strong this week about debit

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<v Speaker 1>card transaction searcharges. They did allude to a closer look

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<v Speaker 1>at credit card transaction search charges, but the big focus

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<v Speaker 1>here is on debit cards and what they're proposing is

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<v Speaker 1>to ban debit card search charges entirely from the first

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<v Speaker 1>of January twenty twenty six. They're going to wait for

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<v Speaker 1>a review currently underway by the Reserve Bank before that

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<v Speaker 1>legislation would be tabled. The government does seem pretty keen

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<v Speaker 1>to take steps before the review is delivered. So they've

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<v Speaker 1>additionally committed two point one million dollars to the a

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<v Speaker 1>Triple C to boost investigations into illegal and unfair search charging,

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<v Speaker 1>and they said they want to increase consumer education as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that does seem like a big gap aside from

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<v Speaker 3>the regulation space, you know, actually telling consumers what their

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<v Speaker 3>rights are, what is reasonable, what is excessive when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to those fees. The big move though, is this

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<v Speaker 3>potential ban on debit card seurch charges from twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 3>But considering that these fees impact all of us every

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<v Speaker 3>day into the billions of dollars every year, why does

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<v Speaker 3>it need to.

0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Take that long.

0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.760
<v Speaker 1>It's an interesting one, isn't it, Because I mean we've

0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:48.079
<v Speaker 1>got the federal election sometimes before May, and this kind

0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.600
<v Speaker 1>of reform is traditionally pretty popular in Australia. I mean,

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 1>we're going to make everything cheaper for you across the board.

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.679
<v Speaker 1>But the government knows they need to be careful with

0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 1>this and that's why they're waiting for the Reserve banks,

0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 1>because it could have adverse effects on businesses and they

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.200
<v Speaker 1>need to strike a balance between protecting consumers but also

0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.720
<v Speaker 1>making sure that the businesses have access to payment services.

0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the last thing that you would want if

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.320
<v Speaker 1>you owned a small business is the payment provider saying well,

0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.079
<v Speaker 1>because we don't want to operate in this environment anymore,

0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.880
<v Speaker 1>we're taking away our visa service or our MasterCard service.

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.880
<v Speaker 1>The government also wants to make sure that it's not

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 1>businesses who are copying the fees and penalties themselves. And

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>whilst there might be a law that means that consumers

0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 1>can't be charged unless they do it in a proper

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.839
<v Speaker 1>kind of financial modeling kind of way. They wouldn't want

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 1>the businesses to be taking that cost on.

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and part of this ties into a really interesting

0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.800
<v Speaker 3>conversation that's happening in the US at the moment, where

0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.840
<v Speaker 3>the government is suing Visa, accusing it of this debit

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.440
<v Speaker 3>card monopoly. Because when we consider those costs, you know,

0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.599
<v Speaker 3>whether it's the consumer absorbing it or the business absorbing it,

0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 3>it's all ultimately two or three key players who set

0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 3>the agenda for these transactions. And this case in the

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.000
<v Speaker 3>US from the Department of Justice has essentially said that

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.079
<v Speaker 3>Visa has kind of taken advantage of its market dominance

0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 3>to control quote.

0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:16.719
<v Speaker 2>The price of nearly everything.

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.720
<v Speaker 3>So that lawsuit is going to be a really interesting

0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.480
<v Speaker 3>one to watch play out.

0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Well. The US is a really interesting space in this

0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 1>regard because they don't have federal law about credit card

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 1>or debit card search charges. There's these lawsuits that are

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.360
<v Speaker 1>popping up now more commonly, but it's state based, and

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 1>so what you find in the US is that you

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.040
<v Speaker 1>might be buying something from an online company that's based

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.040
<v Speaker 1>in another state and you have to kind of understand

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.280
<v Speaker 1>what their surcharges are. But this is being discussed all

0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.800
<v Speaker 1>over the world. I mean in the UK, they banned

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.960
<v Speaker 1>all surcharges on credit and debit card payments back in

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, and that was part of this EU wide

0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 1>initiative to end excessive card charges. The UK's ban actually

0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>went further than the current proposal by the Australian government

0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.800
<v Speaker 1>because it covered both debit and credit cards.

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 3>Okay, interesting that I remember being kind of controversial at

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.400
<v Speaker 3>the time in the UK. When we think about the

0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 3>business community back here in Australia, how have they reacted

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:15.120
<v Speaker 3>to this.

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's a mixed bag. So small businesses have expressed

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 1>those concerns. I mentioned earlier that a potential surcharge ban

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.880
<v Speaker 1>might mean that they would have to absorb the costs themselves.

0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.120
<v Speaker 1>There are other businesses that are saying this is a

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.920
<v Speaker 1>really positive move and you know, it's about time the

0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 1>government stands up to, as you said before, these two

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 1>or three major players in the payment space. It's been

0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 1>really interesting looking at some of the corresponding developments from

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the really big retailers. So I read a report in

0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 1>the Australian Financial Review this week about chemist Warehouse and

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 1>they're introducing this new system where they're putting up stickers

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 1>of QR codes at the counter. You can scan it

0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 1>and kind of bank transfer chemist Warehouse really and that's

0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 1>their attempt to get around paying the credit card surcharges

0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.440
<v Speaker 1>and debit card surcharges themselves. They say they're spending about

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 1>fifteen million dollars a year on payment search charges.

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.360
<v Speaker 3>That is really interesting the example of a chemist Warehouse

0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 3>kind of figuring out a workaround for customers.

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 2>I also just heard about this other app.

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 3>That's called Ping that consumers can use at the checkout

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 3>to kind of work around these charges. And I do

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 3>feel like it's a space that's waiting for a little

0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:27.880
<v Speaker 3>bit more.

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Disruption, definitely. And the payments giants know that themselves, and

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, in response to all of this, they've come

0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 1>out globally and said things along the lines of we're

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.480
<v Speaker 1>providing a really effective service to businesses big and small.

0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 1>We're ensuring that you can have clear reporting on how

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 1>much money you're making. We are ensuring that it gets

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 1>to your bank accounts fast, and just like any other

0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.400
<v Speaker 1>business in the world, we need to make money by

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 1>doing that. So there are many sides to this discussion,

0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure that they're not going to want to

0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 1>lose a major income stream as well, so they'll continue

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 1>to kind of prove their case. But I think the

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.199
<v Speaker 1>consumer is going to be central to how the government

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:07.600
<v Speaker 1>plays this.

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 3>These changes proposed in Australia do seem fairly moderate. I

0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.040
<v Speaker 3>think it's worth mentioning, you know, we're not trying to

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.320
<v Speaker 3>completely reinvent the wheel. Some other more significant changes in

0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.440
<v Speaker 3>overseas markets that you've touched on. So what's the response

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.639
<v Speaker 3>been like to the announcement here in Australia from a

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.280
<v Speaker 3>regulatory standpoint? To start with, have we heard from the

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 3>A Triple C.

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, the A Triple C has welcomed the announcement. They

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:35.359
<v Speaker 1>described excessive card surcharging as a key concern for consumers

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 1>and small businesses. They acknowledge that while businesses aren't banned

0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 1>from charging a surcharge for card payments, consumer and competition

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>legislation means that the charge must not be more than

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.480
<v Speaker 1>what it costs a business to use that payment. They said,

0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.480
<v Speaker 1>if a business charges a card payment surcharge, it must

0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 1>be able to prove the costs. It's based on and

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.600
<v Speaker 1>I think that's probably a good starting point for all

0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.760
<v Speaker 1>of these investigations and deeper dives to go. Is our

0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 1>business is making a margin from these payments.

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and of course Australian consumer law dictates that, you know,

0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 3>businesses can't be misleading customers on their pricing tactics. This

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 3>is a government announcement. It's all kind of hypothetical at

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.600
<v Speaker 3>the moment while we await that review, have we heard

0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.240
<v Speaker 3>anything from the opposition.

0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.960
<v Speaker 1>The Opposition came out really strongly yesterday against the announcement.

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 1>We've got a statement from Susan Lee, she's the Deputy

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Leader of the Opposition, and Angus Taylor, the Shadow Treasurer.

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 1>They called the announcement quote another desperate attempt by the

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 1>government to address a cost of living crisis that they'd

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 1>say it has caused. And their core criticism of the

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 1>announcement is that this is only a proposed change from

0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty six and that it didn't provide short term

0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.280
<v Speaker 1>relief to Australians who are struggling financially.

0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 3>So it's not that the Coalition are necessarily saying they

0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.240
<v Speaker 3>are against reform here. It's more that they think that

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.359
<v Speaker 3>this action doesn't go far enough quick enough.

0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, in my surprise, you remembered to hear that politicians

0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.879
<v Speaker 1>are politicking. But I think the real discussion that the

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.880
<v Speaker 1>moment for the opposition is what's the government doing short

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.439
<v Speaker 1>term to help Australians in this cost of living and

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.719
<v Speaker 1>housing crisis. We've got an election, as I said, sometime

0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 1>before May, economics and cost of living is going to

0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 1>be I dare say, probably the key topic for a

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 1>lot of voters.

0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.320
<v Speaker 2>So what happens from here then? In the meantime, so.

0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.680
<v Speaker 1>The Reserve Bank is set to release a consultation paper soon,

0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.400
<v Speaker 1>and that's not the final report from the Reserve Bank.

0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.639
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of a status update on how they're going

0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:32.720
<v Speaker 1>might foreshadow how they're thinking about implementing changes, what potential

0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.720
<v Speaker 1>impacts on consumers and businesses could look like. From there though,

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.200
<v Speaker 1>we'll have to wait for that final report. Then we'll

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.159
<v Speaker 1>get proposed government legislation, then it will be discussed in

0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Parliament and then we might see some change.

0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:46.360
<v Speaker 2>So don't hold your breath.

0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Don't hold your breath and keep tapping away.

0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Brilliant.

0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for breaking all of that down

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.199
<v Speaker 3>for us, Sam, really really helpful. And as we mentioned,

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.920
<v Speaker 3>this is obviously one of those stories that impacts everyone.

0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:58.600
<v Speaker 2>We will keep you across.

0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.080
<v Speaker 3>It as anything changes. Thank you so much for listening

0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.040
<v Speaker 3>to today's episode of The Daily os. If you learned something,

0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 3>please send it on to a friend. Don't forget to

0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.560
<v Speaker 3>subscribe or follow us wherever you listen to the podcast

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.240
<v Speaker 3>or if you're watching over on our YouTube. We will

0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.159
<v Speaker 3>be back with another one tomorrow, but until then, have

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 3>a great day.

0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.520
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.