1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers. 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: Now, we all will experience hard time, We'll all experience distress, 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: and we know that a really important moderating factor that 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: determines how we respond is the ability to describe our emotions. 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: And so those men and boys who can describe their emotions, 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: they're they're much less likely to respond with anger in 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: the presence of disress. 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My Mum 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: and Dad. 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 3: Today is the day I get to have a conversation 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 3: with a really interesting person who knows stuff that I 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 3: don't know what. We get to do that with a 14 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 3: guy by the name of Matt Tyler. Matt has a 15 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 3: very extraordinary background working around the topic of boys and men. 16 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 4: I'm really excited to talk with Matt. 17 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: He works at the moment in Victoria with Jesuit Social 18 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 3: Services on a project called the Man Box. We're going 19 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 3: to dive into the man and unpacket a little bit 20 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 3: in the podcast Today. Matt is going to be one 21 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 3: of our guest speakers for the Bringing Up Boys Summit 22 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 3: that's happening this Wednesday. If you haven't got your tickets. 23 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: We have got such an incredible lineup of people. Peggy Orenstein, 24 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 3: New York Times best selling author of Boys and Sex, 25 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 3: Professor Mark Brackett from Yale University. He's the director of 26 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 3: the Center for Emotional Intelligence at Yale. Mia Friedman is 27 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: going to be talking about how to raise the best 28 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 3: boy in the room. Look, just keep on going. There's 29 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 3: twelve extraordinary or ten extraordinary extraordinary guests, and Matt Tyler 30 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 3: is one of them. For now though, Matt Tyler, welcome 31 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 3: to a Happy Family Podcasts. 32 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: Justin, Thank you for having me. Thank you as well 33 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: to the work you and Kylie do to make life 34 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: and this country better for parents. 35 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, Matt. 36 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 3: Let's just talk briefly, maybe the thirty second version of 37 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 3: the history of Matt Tyler. What qualifies you to talk 38 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 3: about men and the man box and raising boys? Helping 39 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: us to help our boy always be men of substance? 40 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks, Justin. 41 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: I guess I've spent the last decade or so working 42 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: to apply my craft trains as and economists, apply my 43 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 2: craft in social services, oftentimes at the crisis enter things 44 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: justin and so child protection, in and around criminal justice, 45 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: mental health. Unfortunately, overwhelmingly those parts of our social service 46 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: systems that men and boys, you know, disproportionately represented it. 47 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: And so my work with the Men's Project to Jesuit 48 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: social services seeks to move from that crisis end of 49 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: things towards a greater focus on prevention and early intervention, 50 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: and the man box is a really important part of that. 51 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 4: So let's talk about the man box. What is it? 52 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: Doesn't put most simply, it's a set of beliefs that 53 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: place pressure on men and boys to be a certain way, 54 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: to be tough, to not show emotions, to be the 55 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 2: bread winner, always be in control the more extreme end, 56 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: to use violence to solve their problems. 57 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 5: To have as many sexual partners as possible. 58 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: Man, when I hear you list those things, I can't 59 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 3: help but think that, well, I'd imagine that there'd be 60 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: two fairly common responses to what this concept of the 61 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 3: man box is. The twenty twenty two response, for those 62 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 3: who are a little bit more progressive, would be, I 63 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 3: can't believe we're still talking about this in twenty twenty two. 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: Men aren't like that anymore. They don't need to be 65 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: like that anymore. Why do we keep on playing into 66 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: this stereotype, and I would imagine at the other end 67 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 3: of the continuum there would be a whole lot of 68 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 3: people saying, but that's what it is to be a man, 69 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: what's the problem? And then I guess there's probably a 70 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: bunch of people in the middle who say, well, can 71 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: we just let boys be boys? Can we just let 72 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: boys grow into men and treat people with respect and kindness? 73 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: What do you find is the response to these man 74 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: box ideas? How many people really do endorse them, both 75 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: male and FEMA justin. 76 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: I want to reflect on something you just shared before 77 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: coming to your question. This work builds on literally centuries 78 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: of work by pro feminist organizations, often led by women, 79 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: to pursue gender equality, and I would say that we've 80 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: made incredible strides so far as the role of women 81 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: in our society. Still so much work to do, but 82 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: we've made great strides. And so this conversation, to your 83 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: point about twenty twenty two, builds on that work and 84 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: ask the question, well, what do we want for our 85 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: men and boys? We touched on my background and the 86 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: reality that many men and boys are struggling, and what 87 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 2: we've found in our research is that a significant share 88 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: majority in fact of men that we asked do perceive 89 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: social pressures around what society expects from them? And so 90 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: two thirds of men that we surveyed in our research 91 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: said that since they were a boy, they've been told 92 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: that an inverticom is real man behaves in a certain way. 93 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: And so this isn't sort of abstract ideas in terms 94 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: of the pressures that men are feeling. And I guess 95 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: in terms of your question and the responses that we 96 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: receive to our work, we start from the premise of 97 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: asking men and boys what they think. This work is 98 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: deeply personal, and so for your listeners, I'd encourage folks 99 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 2: to reflect, what are the environments, what are the influences 100 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 2: that have shaped your attitudes about what it means to 101 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: be a male, also, for that matter, what it means 102 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: to be a woman. For me, being a part of 103 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 2: sports clubs, they can be incredibly nurturing environments, but at times, 104 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: I know and playing footy through early twenties, I was 105 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: exposed to environments that put down women, that put this 106 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 2: idea of a sort of a jocular man on a pedestal. 107 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: Even working in hospitality, sexist comments, this sort of idea 108 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: of the alpha male around the pool table to be 109 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: honest with you, Justin and I'll be frank working in 110 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 2: politics up in Parliament House, you couldn't show a hint 111 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: of vulnerability now. I was also lucky to be brought 112 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: up by a single mum who really encouraged me to 113 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: be myself, and she pushed back on gender nonce herself. 114 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: And so these ideas, I guess we ask people to 115 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: reflect on their own views and do our best to 116 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: sort of meet them where they're at in a sort 117 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 2: of non judgmental, non shaming way. 118 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 3: So, Matt, I want to respond to a couple of 119 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 3: things and go off script a little bit. I mean, 120 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 3: we were joking around before I started the interview with 121 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: you because I couldn't find the questions. What sort of 122 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 3: interviews is going to be if I don't even have 123 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 3: the questions? But I want to let go of those 124 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 3: questions for a moment and reflect on a little bit 125 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 3: of what you've said and ask you a question. After 126 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 3: the break, we're going to dive deeply into what happens 127 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 3: when men and boys find themselves in the manbox. 128 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 4: But first, the reality is, and you and I both. 129 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 3: Know this, even though there's so many people who say, 130 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: come on, it's twenty twenty two. 131 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 4: Surely we've moved beyond it. We haven't. Like, we actually 132 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 4: have not move doing on it. 133 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 3: And when you look at as you said, what happened 134 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 3: in parlament, what happens in sport clubs, what happens in schools, 135 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 3: what happens in the bathrooms in public places, what happens 136 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: in movies, what happens on social media, we haven't moved 137 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: past these archaic but very real man. 138 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 4: Box What was the word you use? I want to 139 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 4: say principles, but that's not the right word. These man 140 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 4: box beliefs. We just haven't. 141 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: So the question that I want to ask you, as 142 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: somebody who has thought long, deep and hard about masculinity 143 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: is what is it? 144 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: Like? 145 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: I ran a webinar just recently and I asked people, 146 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: how do you define what is masculinity? 147 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 4: What's healthy masculinity? What does it mean to be a man? 148 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: And people were quiet, and the responses eventually became really, 149 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 3: really smart. But it takes a lot of thinking to 150 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: figure out what is it to be a good man today? 151 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 4: How do you define it? Where do you go with this? 152 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, geez, A great question that is the question justin 153 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: because these ideas they vary across time, they vary across cultures, 154 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: and so the last thing we want to do in 155 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: this work is prescribe an other man box. We don't 156 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: want to be saying like, here's the sort of ideal 157 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: set of ideals that every man, in our not so. 158 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 5: Humble view should prescribe too. 159 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: And so where we go when we think about healthy 160 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: and masculinities is the idea of flexibility and the idea 161 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: of context, enabling men and boys with the awareness, the 162 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: self awareness, and the skills to acknowledge the situations they 163 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: find themselves in and be free to choose how they 164 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: show up. And so I think Tim Winton, one of 165 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: our ambassadors, shares an analogy that really helps me understand this, 166 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: and that is now, men and boys, they're born with 167 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: all of the colors in their pencil box, and yet 168 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: as they grow, too often, and this is a social 169 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: social conditioning, social construction, too often those pencils, one by 170 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: one are taken away, so that perhaps when they're an 171 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: adult they've got a black, they've got a gray synonymous 172 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 2: with perhaps happiness, sadness, and perhaps anger. And yet we 173 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: know there's over four hundred positive and negative emotions. Those 174 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 2: men and boys who can not just identify their emotions, 175 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: but describe their emotions, they can accommodate stresses that they 176 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 2: experience in their lives. The research is really clear on this. 177 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 2: And so when we all will experience hard times, we'll 178 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: all experience distress, and we know that a really important 179 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 2: moderating factor that determines how we respond is the ability 180 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: to describe our emotions. And so those men and boys 181 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: who can describe their emotions, they're they're much less likely 182 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: to respond with anger in the presence of distress. 183 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, they've got the full palette, the full pen or case, 184 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: all the colors are there, and how wonderful. 185 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 5: But we just on that talent idea. We go to 186 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 5: music festivals, we go to festivals, we're exposed to so 187 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 5: many different. 188 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 2: Types of bands, and how wonderful is that to experience 189 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: the full range of what's possible in a life well lived. 190 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: And so that's the central tenet I think of this 191 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: idea of healthy and masculinity, is this idea that you know, 192 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 2: you've got the skills and the awannas to respond to 193 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: a whole range of different situations. 194 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 4: After the break. 195 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: We find out how we help our boys and men 196 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: if they find themselves in the manbox. 197 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: It's their Happy Family's podcast. 198 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: Our boys are struggling with friends, mental health, alcohol, drugs, pornography, emotions, 199 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 3: and so much more. But science tells us that the 200 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 3: most important thing for your son's well being is his 201 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 3: connection with you. The Bringing Up Boys Summit is about 202 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: one thing, taking you into your son's world and helping 203 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: you connect with him in. 204 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 4: The way he needs you. 205 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 3: To find out more on the Happy Famili's webshop and 206 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: start connecting with your son today. It's the Happy Families Podcast, 207 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 3: the podcast for the time poor parent who just wants 208 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 3: answers Now speaking with Matt Tyler from Jesuit Social Services 209 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 3: about the man Box. Will be going in depth with 210 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 3: all of this in the upcoming Bringing Up Boys Some Matt, 211 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 3: what happens when our boys and our men find themselves 212 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 3: in this man box with this set of beliefs that 213 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 3: ultimately impact the way that they're engaging with life with 214 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 3: other people. 215 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: These man box attitudes justin they really matter. Our research 216 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: looked at the extent to which these attitudes are associated 217 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 2: with a range of harmful life outcomes for men, and 218 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: boys themselves as well as people in their lives. 219 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 5: And what we found was that. 220 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: Men who are in the man box and so subscribe 221 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 2: to these traditional ideas about what it means to be 222 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: a man, they're twenty times as likely as self report 223 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 2: sexually harassing a woman if fourteen times is likely to 224 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: use physical violence to self report the use of physical violence. 225 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 2: And then they're not doing so well themselves either, over 226 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 2: twice as likely to experience suicidal thoughts in the last 227 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: two weeks. And I guess we know this intuitively. We're 228 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 2: better off when we can show up as ourselves, not 229 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: constrained or put in a box. 230 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 5: And we see this. 231 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 2: You know, our front line staff who work with men, 232 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: you know, in the justice system, men experience poor mental health. 233 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,239 Speaker 2: They tell us this that you know, there are recurring 234 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: themes and it's not just the man box. There's issues 235 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 2: around you know, trauma and a whole range of other 236 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: things that impact our lives. 237 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 5: But they tell us. 238 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 2: That too often the men they're working with, they have 239 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: their mask on, that they're showing up in a way 240 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: that is not actually emblematic of the person they are 241 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: underneath that mask. And that's for a whole range of 242 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: reasons in the environments that we're exposed to, but these 243 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: man box attitude is they're having a really significant impact 244 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: on men and boys lives. 245 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: I remember when I was at high school Matt I 246 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: had a wonderful friend. She was just such a great girl, 247 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 3: and she started dating this boy, and I gotta be honest. 248 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 3: He was not a nice guy. He was brutal to 249 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 3: people in the playground. He was unkind towards kind of everyone. 250 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 3: Because he was living into the man box. He had 251 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: to have those man box attitudes on full display so 252 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 3: that he could demonstrate his masculinity. And I remember saying 253 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 3: to her as a friend, I said, what are you 254 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 3: doing with this guy? 255 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 4: He's just so unkind? 256 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 3: She said something really interesting, She said, nobody else sees 257 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: him the way I see him. He actually she didn't 258 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 3: use the words, but reflecting what you've just said, she 259 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: was essentially saying, he takes off his mask when he's 260 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 3: with me, and I get to see him for who 261 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 3: he is. 262 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 4: And I thought, isn't that isn't that curious? It makes 263 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 4: me think, do we have a masculinity crisis? 264 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 5: It's the example you share before we get to crisis. 265 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 2: Wouldn't be great if that young man could feel safe 266 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: enough and have the permission to take off his mask 267 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: absent when he's one on one with his girlfriend. That's 268 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: a world that I want to that I'd want to 269 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: be in, where that young man could show up and 270 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: not engage in the harpful ways. 271 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 5: That you described he was engaging in the playground. 272 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: In terms of crisis, I'm a glass half full sort 273 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: of person. Justin I'd say, we don't have a crisis. 274 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: But gee, we've got a massive opportunity. You know, if 275 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: we zoom out right out and think about the journey 276 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: we've been on in the Western world over the last 277 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: two hundred years, we've seen we've seen three incredible ways 278 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: of feminism, you know, first political and economic participation, seconds, 279 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 2: issues concerned around sexuality, family, reproductive rights, women in the workplace. 280 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: And then today we're seeing a you know, a game 281 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: changing conversation about violence, about pornography, about the commodification of 282 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 2: women girls in media and advertising. And there's still so 283 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: much work to do, but Gie, we've got a great 284 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: opportunity to have a conversation about what we want for 285 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: our men and boys. We're seeing, you know, even a 286 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: touchdown prisons even in our schools. Eighty percent of all 287 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: expulsions in schools of boys and so the work we 288 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 2: do with the Men's Project, I guess is centered on 289 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: this idea of you know, we don't want our men 290 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: and boys stuck in the manbox. We want we want 291 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: a world where they can be free to show up 292 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: as themselves. It will improve their well being and also 293 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: the well being of people in their lives. 294 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 3: Matt, we will link to the man Box and associated 295 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: projects information in the show notes. Really excited to be 296 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 3: able to explore with you all of these ideas at a 297 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 3: whole lot more depth in the Bringing Up Boys Summit 298 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: that's happening this Wednesday. If you haven't got your tickets, 299 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 3: we have got such an incredible lineup of people. Peggy Orenstein, 300 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: New York Times best selling author of Boys and Sex, 301 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 3: Professor Mark Brackett from Yale University. He's the director of 302 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 3: the Center for Emotional Intelligence at Yale. Mia Friedman is 303 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 3: going to be talking about how to raise the best 304 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 3: boy in the room. 305 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: Look, I could just keep on going. 306 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: There's twelve extraordinary or ten extraordinary extraordinary guests, and Matt 307 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 3: Tyler is one of them. 308 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 4: Matt, what a great discussion. Can't wait to learn more 309 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 4: from you. 310 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 5: Thanks so much, Justin. 311 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from 312 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 3: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more information, 313 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 3: visit Happyfamilies dot com, dot you and hopefully we'll see 314 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 3: you on the Bringing Up Boys Summit. All the details 315 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 3: at Facebook or the website.