1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,600
Speaker 1: Minister for Energy and the Missions Reduction, Angus Taylor, was

2
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: on Friday out at the Beterloo Basin talking up the

3
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,440
Speaker 1: Morrison government's gas fired recovery plan. The Minister joins me

4
00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: on the line. Now, good morning, Minister Katie.

5
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:13,720
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

6
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,400
Speaker 1: Now you're at it. Well you're in the Northern Territory

7
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,239
Speaker 1: on Friday, but you didn't come and visit us.

8
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,680
Speaker 2: Look, I was Friday up but it's great to be

9
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 2: able to talk now. And of course we went out

10
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,680
Speaker 2: to the Beloo Basin, so it was fantastic to get

11
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 2: out and see these new gas developments happening there. The

12
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,479
Speaker 2: drilling worker's going there, which has been very very positive.

13
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,040
Speaker 2: All the indications are this is an extraordinary gas resource

14
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,479
Speaker 2: and has the potential to drive enormous job creation and

15
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,480
Speaker 2: investment in the territory, and that's what we're excited about,

16
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: not just on the gas side, but of course this

17
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 2: is a gas resource that will require processing. It will

18
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 2: require and has the potential to add a lot of

19
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 2: downstream manufacturing and that side of it as well. I

20
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 2: think has enormous potential and we really want to focus

21
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,280
Speaker 2: on it in the coming months and years.

22
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, we certainly keep hearing about the potential of the

23
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,480
Speaker 1: be Toloo basin and you know the fact that it

24
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,720
Speaker 1: can power Australia for a heck of a lot of years.

25
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 1: How exactly though, are we going to really be able

26
00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,680
Speaker 1: to capitalize on this? And you know, for the territory

27
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 1: to be able to prosper well, the key.

28
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 2: Is to get the drilling done as quickly as possible.

29
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 2: That's happening now. So the good news is this is real.

30
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,759
Speaker 2: We're getting real drilling results and they're extremely positive. We

31
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 2: know from similar resources we've seen in the United States.

32
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,720
Speaker 2: They've transformed the United States economy in an extraordinary way,

33
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,480
Speaker 2: and that's an economy of two hundred and fifty million.

34
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 2: The Norton territories in economy of a couple hundred thousand,

35
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 2: So you can see the potential there. But the key

36
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 2: then is to move to production. We've got to make

37
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 2: sure that all the appropriate regulatory approvals are achieved through

38
00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 2: that process. But we're also going to need investment in

39
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 2: infrastructure and downstream processing and we're focusing on that right now.

40
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 2: We've announced a whole series of reforms in the gas

41
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,919
Speaker 2: markets in Australia, including for the first time having a

42
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 2: national gas infrastructure plan, which is all about the pipelines.

43
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 2: That's all going to be part of it. And then

44
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 2: we need the downstream manufacturing and of course that has

45
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 2: been a big focus of the budget and government announcements

46
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 2: in recent months as well. So, you know, the timing

47
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 2: is good. This is a very receptive federal government in

48
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,079
Speaker 2: terms of getting these sorts of resources up and in

49
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,959
Speaker 2: terms of the policies required. And we want to see

50
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 2: job creation and we want to see a booming territory

51
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 2: economy in the coming years.

52
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,400
Speaker 1: Now, when we talk about the infrastructure and also the manufacturing,

53
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,400
Speaker 1: that downstream manufacturing, how are we expect you know, are

54
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,080
Speaker 1: we sort of thinking here that it's going to be

55
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,280
Speaker 1: private investment that drives this or is there going to

56
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,760
Speaker 1: be a push from the federal government and funding provided

57
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 1: in order to make this happen.

58
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 2: Wow has always been our preference is for the private

59
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 2: sector to invest necessary, we'll step in now. The good

60
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 2: news is I think that these resources are looking so

61
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,680
Speaker 2: strong and the early results are so good. If it

62
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 2: keeps moving in that direction, there will be an enormous

63
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 2: interest from the private sector. There will be a role

64
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 2: for government to play there's no question about that. Pipeline

65
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 2: planning for instance, is it very important role for government

66
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,560
Speaker 2: And you know I was involved before politics and some

67
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 2: of the work early work on the Northern gas pipeline

68
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 2: which is there in place now, but there'll need to

69
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 2: be more of that and that is an important role

70
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,600
Speaker 2: for government. But you know, we will play the role

71
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 2: we need to as a little as we need to,

72
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 2: but as much as we have to to make sure

73
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 2: these extraordinary opportunities are realized and that the Northern Territory

74
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 2: makes the most out of it.

75
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: Now, when you talk about that pipeline planning, where are

76
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 1: things that and you know with the b to Loo basin,

77
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,480
Speaker 1: where is it expected that that gas is going to

78
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:53,880
Speaker 1: flow to.

79
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 2: There's a number of options. We're right now doing the

80
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 2: work on what we're calling the National Gas Infrastructure, which

81
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 2: is working out where the missing pipelines are that will

82
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,560
Speaker 2: need to be built in the coming years to leverage

83
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 2: to make the most of these resources and to build

84
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,800
Speaker 2: customer hubs manufacturing operations in the appropriate places around Australia.

85
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,840
Speaker 2: That work is moving at pace. We've never had a

86
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,599
Speaker 2: plan for our gas network before. This will be the

87
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 2: first time and my Department is leading that work as

88
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,479
Speaker 2: we speak, and that will be more than timely or

89
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 2: one in time for any kind of production that will

90
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 2: come from the bea Toloo, but it is important work. Now.

91
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 2: There's a number of options for where the Beeloo gas

92
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,200
Speaker 2: would go. It can go over to the East Coast.

93
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 2: It can potentially go up through Darwen to processing in

94
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,440
Speaker 2: Darwen and export in Dowen, and it can go south

95
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 2: as well. There are all the options we're exploring right now.

96
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,479
Speaker 1: When you talk about then you know, the way that

97
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: our gas in the be Toloo is able to sort

98
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 1: of form part of you know of the energy plan

99
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 1: for all of Australia. And then you talk about the manufacturing,

100
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 1: how does an Northern territory like how are we going

101
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 1: to compete with some of these other states like Wa

102
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,080
Speaker 1: for example, and you know, really try to capitalize when

103
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,440
Speaker 1: it comes to employment and when it comes to creating jobs,

104
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,560
Speaker 1: because we know that very often places like Wa sort

105
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 1: of I don't know whether it's because their approvals processes

106
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,359
Speaker 1: are faster or why exactly, companies very often choose to

107
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,919
Speaker 1: do business in other states. I mean, how do you

108
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 1: think that the Northern Territory can really sort of try

109
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: to make the most of this opportunity.

110
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,520
Speaker 2: Well, it's a couple of points I've made. You are

111
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:37,480
Speaker 2: right that westin Australia's approval processes, for instance, are very effective.

112
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,880
Speaker 2: I've been doing it for a long while. There are

113
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,679
Speaker 2: a resource state. I think the territory can actually achieve

114
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 2: those sorts of outcomes though, and I know there's a

115
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,600
Speaker 2: real commitment to make sure the approval process is a

116
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,520
Speaker 2: world class in the territory. But the second part I'd

117
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 2: make is that the nature of this resource, the geological

118
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 2: features this resource are unrivaled almost anywhere, not just in

119
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 2: Australia but in the world. That it is a very

120
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 2: very special resource. And that's partly because it has both

121
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 2: oil and gas liquids as it's called as they're called,

122
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,599
Speaker 2: as well as gas, and that makes it very low

123
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,599
Speaker 2: cost and extremely attractive. So it means that attracting the investment,

124
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,040
Speaker 2: attracting the capability, attracting the companies, and having an incentive

125
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 2: to get through approval processes, work with the local traditional

126
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 2: owners and of course the pastoral less all of that

127
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 2: is much easier if it's a very high quality resource.

128
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,160
Speaker 2: We've seen that elsewhere and that's certainly the case here

129
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,040
Speaker 2: in the territory. But I spoke with the new minister

130
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,040
Speaker 2: and new government, and I know that Prime Minister spoke

131
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,480
Speaker 2: with the Chief Minister on Friday. There's clearly a commitment

132
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,880
Speaker 2: to get moving on this. There's a lot of work

133
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 2: to be done, but I do think the territory is

134
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 2: extremely well positioned.

135
00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 1: And you spoke about them different manufacturing hubs and the

136
00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 1: various locations where they could be positioned around Australia, and

137
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 1: you did mention the Northern Territory. What would it take

138
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 1: really for the territory to become a manufacturing hub.

139
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 2: Well, there has to be the will, but there also

140
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 2: has to be the supporting policy and the supporting resources.

141
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 2: We think the supporting resources are there. If these drilling

142
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 2: results continue to prove up. Certainly, I think there's increasing

143
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 2: wills and certainly from the federal government, but I think

144
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 2: also from the territory government to start to build those

145
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 2: manufacturing opportunities. And I think with those resources we'll see

146
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,680
Speaker 2: the investment. So you know, the pieces are coming into

147
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 2: place here. We've all been we've all been backing the

148
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 2: territory to build a very strong economy in recent years.

149
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 2: I've been involved in agriculture and the mining industry in

150
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 2: my past life, and territory has always been a great opportunity.

151
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 2: Now the challenge is to convert to make that opportunity,

152
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,120
Speaker 2: that potential real. And I've got to tell you these

153
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 2: resources we're seeing now, what I saw in the territory

154
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 2: last week tells me that they're very real and we

155
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 2: can deliver. Minister.

156
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 1: At the back of my mind, whenever we talk about gas,

157
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 1: I'm very aware that there are people that would be

158
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,680
Speaker 1: listening to the show that are thinking, why aren't we

159
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 1: going down the renewables path and why aren't we doing

160
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 1: more around solar. I know though that here in the

161
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 1: territory we are sort of we're doing various things when

162
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,240
Speaker 1: it comes to solar. You know, from the federal government's perspective,

163
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,480
Speaker 1: is that a path that you're also wanting to go

164
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 1: down in the territory.

165
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 2: Well, it's not either or it's the end. It's both.

166
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:33,760
Speaker 2: So we as a country had nine billion dollars of

167
00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,040
Speaker 2: investment in solar and wind last year twenty nineteen. We

168
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,199
Speaker 2: expected to be about the same number this year. That's

169
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 2: absolutely world leading investment in solar and wind, but that

170
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,000
Speaker 2: needs to be backed up. When the sun goes down,

171
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,720
Speaker 2: when the wind doesn't blow, you've still got to have energy.

172
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,840
Speaker 2: You need gas for industrial feedstock for critical goods like manufacturing,

173
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 2: manufacturing plastics and fertilizer. And it's the combination of the

174
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 2: dispatchable energy source in gas with renewables that really works.

175
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,200
Speaker 2: That's what we want to see. That's what we're starting

176
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,199
Speaker 2: to see. But we need to have the gas and

177
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,120
Speaker 2: that's why we've focused in the budget and the lead

178
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,679
Speaker 2: up to the budget on unlocking supply, getting the right

179
00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 2: infrastructure in place, making sure gas customers are getting a

180
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 2: fair deal, that we've got Australian Gas working for Australians,

181
00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 2: and all of those pieces are going into place to

182
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,840
Speaker 2: ensure that we get the right balance in our energy

183
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 2: system and that includes solar and wind.

184
00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,480
Speaker 1: Mesty, you sound pretty excited by what you've seen at

185
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 1: the be Toloo basin late last week.

186
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Look, as I say, I've believed in the

187
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,200
Speaker 2: territory for a long while. I think many of us

188
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 2: have felt that it hasn't realized its full potential, even

189
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 2: though there's brilliant people there and fantastic businesses. But this

190
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,199
Speaker 2: is like nothing I've seen before. I've seen what it's

191
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,120
Speaker 2: done in the United States, particularly in the Southeast, in

192
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 2: states like Texas and Louisiana, and I think we can

193
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,320
Speaker 2: see the same kind of outcome here in the territory.

194
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 2: And I think that will that will be good for

195
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,839
Speaker 2: jobs and investment, the economy, for people's standard of living,

196
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,199
Speaker 2: and I think that would be a very good thing,

197
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,320
Speaker 2: not just not just for the territory, but for all

198
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 2: of Australia well.

199
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 1: Angus Taylor, the Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction, always

200
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,680
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Thanks so much for having a chat

201
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 1: with us today.

202
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:27,679
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Thank you