WEBVTT - Kim Wall

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<v Speaker 1>Today, I'm going to tell you a story about a journalist.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh is it about yourself?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Got me a beauty.

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<v Speaker 1>These JOURNALI has chased down stories to the very edge

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<v Speaker 1>of the world, only to have her own story cut

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<v Speaker 1>short in the most unthinkable of ways. Today I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to tell you about the night of what happened, the

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<v Speaker 1>search that followed, more on who this journalist really was,

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<v Speaker 1>the smoking gun, and the prison escape attempt.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>Today I'm telling you the story of Kim Wall.

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<v Speaker 2>This has got everything. I don't know this story, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think I say that every week, So please continue

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<v Speaker 2>with your tale.

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<v Speaker 4>That's money that.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody welcome it to. Not another crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Georgia Long, I'm Sammy Peterson, I'm a journalist.

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<v Speaker 2>I am not. But if you want to just skip

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<v Speaker 2>ahead as always and listen to just the story, you

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<v Speaker 2>can do that. The time code is in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 2>Love Sammy, I have had such a lovely time meeting

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<v Speaker 2>you today. Thank you everything and more that people told

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<v Speaker 2>me of you.

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<v Speaker 1>What have they told you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yep?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you please tell me good?

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<v Speaker 2>I love when people say that they're expecting you well.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember being in an office once where someone said

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<v Speaker 2>oh good, I hope, and they went, oh yeah, it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't even know it was a oh lordy, dear me. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know why. I don't know why you keep

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<v Speaker 1>talking about other stupid when there is one big topic

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<v Speaker 1>that I know you're desperate to talk about. Because this

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<v Speaker 1>your apartment today. It's a little bit of carnage. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like, you know, like a college frat house the

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<v Speaker 1>day after a big party, but it's less like red

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<v Speaker 1>solo cups and empty beer kegs and more a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of dog fluff and dozens of dog toys. Yes, please

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<v Speaker 1>end me tell me why.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so a friend did message me this morning and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought you were going to come and meet me

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<v Speaker 2>last night, and I was like, sorry, I didn't text.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a party pie party, which is so damn cool. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't know what a party pie party is,

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<v Speaker 2>it's basically a party where you have party pies at

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<v Speaker 2>a party. Oh and I thought Digs was turning seven

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<v Speaker 2>years old. Seven years old. He was born on Valentine's Day,

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<v Speaker 2>of course he was. He's my little love bug and

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<v Speaker 2>he was loved bomb and I every time it's his birthday,

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to do something a little bit special,

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<v Speaker 2>And I thought he'd love party pies, he'd love lollies,

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<v Speaker 2>he'd love mini sausage rolls, and he'd just love everyone

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<v Speaker 2>having the best time of their lives. And also him

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<v Speaker 2>showing all of the toys. And so it was Valentine's Day.

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<v Speaker 2>I know Valentie Day. Not everyone celebrates Valentine's Day, but

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<v Speaker 2>to those who celebrate, you should also be celebrating Tu's birthday.

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<v Speaker 2>And I thought, why don't I just put it out

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<v Speaker 2>there to the world to say, Hey, if you're not

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<v Speaker 2>doing anything, I'm going to have a party pie party

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<v Speaker 2>between four to six pm. If you want to drop

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<v Speaker 2>by the party Pie party, please do come. Diggs would

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<v Speaker 2>lose his mind. So the first person that comes is

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<v Speaker 2>my friend Serena. Diggs is like, this is the best

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<v Speaker 2>day I've ever had. She brought him to a full

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<v Speaker 2>gift one visitor.

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<v Speaker 1>Did he know?

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<v Speaker 2>Those people kept turning up And because our good friend

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<v Speaker 2>Gee Love and Diggs. G Love is Diggs's favorite person

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<v Speaker 2>in the world. And I was like, g was basically

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<v Speaker 2>doing everyone has an egg. So you were doing two

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<v Speaker 2>interviews today yes day. The other podcast which is coming

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<v Speaker 2>back very exciting and so you were going to be

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<v Speaker 2>like half an hour behind everyone else. So Diggs, every

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<v Speaker 2>person that came in, Diggs was just like, this is incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't believe it. And then the g Love rocks up. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>G Love also brought Digs two beautiful little toys but

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<v Speaker 2>and party hats and fairy bread fairy rud. But when

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<v Speaker 2>I first moved house, like, oh, like a long time ago,

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<v Speaker 2>like what a year ago was even that long ago?

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<v Speaker 2>It was basically a year ago I moved house and

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<v Speaker 2>Diggs was kind of because brand new area. Digs and

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<v Speaker 2>I had moved house together twice, yes, and he was like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh bit he it takes a little bit to find

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<v Speaker 2>his feet. He's just like walking around. And I remember

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<v Speaker 2>the moment that you walked through the front gate at

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<v Speaker 2>the new place and he could see you and it

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<v Speaker 2>was like, and I'm not I'm not exaggerating when it

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<v Speaker 2>says it was like he was looking at me going

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<v Speaker 2>she found us, Like she found us.

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<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what his face was doing, exactly. Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>We moved blast, but She's found here.

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<v Speaker 2>And then Oliver Clark came out. So this is the

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<v Speaker 2>first day I moved. So you and Oliver came over

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<v Speaker 2>for drinks and he could not he could not believe it,

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<v Speaker 2>and so the party yesterday was the best day of

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<v Speaker 2>his life. My old neighbor Mish gave him a kangaroo

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<v Speaker 2>meat log and so we had that for his Christmas

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<v Speaker 2>and I didn't serve him that, but yeah, but I

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<v Speaker 2>got that, and so he was. It was just a

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<v Speaker 2>day where it was like, digs, whatever you want to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So I went to the dog park. He's running around there.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it was just like him sniffing. Ever. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>you take me where we're going, and then he like

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<v Speaker 2>just walked around for probably an hour, just sniff and stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>popping his heads into popping your heads. He's got one.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not the dog from Harry Potter. But yeah, so

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<v Speaker 2>then he popped his into cafes and everything, and a

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<v Speaker 2>few people.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, you know the rule of it rings you

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<v Speaker 1>have to answer it.

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<v Speaker 2>Your mom gone, hey, mama bear, Oh good, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>We just recorded G and I recording an episode of

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast right now. I g said hello, Hello, do

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<v Speaker 2>you have any advice? Last time you're on the podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>you gave advice about tap dancing. Have you got any

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<v Speaker 2>advice for today, hack or anything, advice for today.

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<v Speaker 5>Let me think we'll.

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<v Speaker 6>Be wary of swimming in murky water. Okay, sometimes you

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<v Speaker 6>knock other swimmers on the head accidentally.

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<v Speaker 2>And then was there a death.

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<v Speaker 6>No, there wasn't a death, but a headache.

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<v Speaker 1>Apparently, which is worse arguably yesterday.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, so have you had a big falling out?

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<v Speaker 6>Yes, I'm afraid again something for you will to beware of.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for letting us know. I'll give you a

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<v Speaker 2>call a little bit later. We're just talking about Diggs's birthday.

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<v Speaker 7>Baddy.

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<v Speaker 2>It was an absolute hit. He loved it. Love you

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<v Speaker 2>talk to you later.

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<v Speaker 1>By the grandma.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but it was it was just one of

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<v Speaker 2>those murky water and she's hits.

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<v Speaker 1>There's been a few sharks in Australia recently. She's making

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<v Speaker 1>a shark thing.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, she just hits someone. I'm not sure because also,

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<v Speaker 2>like Philip Land, at this time of the year, it's

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<v Speaker 2>quite quiet and he's like swimming. How do you hit

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<v Speaker 2>someone in the head anyway? So yeah, so it was

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<v Speaker 2>the best day of his life, popping his head into

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<v Speaker 2>cafes just and I said it's his birthday, and he

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<v Speaker 2>got some treats from local cafe owners. He was having

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<v Speaker 2>the best day of his life. It was incredible, so

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<v Speaker 2>best day I could have spent for Valentine's Day. It

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<v Speaker 2>was beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>It was beautiful, and he's very tired.

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<v Speaker 2>Very tired. He's absolutely exhausted. Anything I missed out.

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<v Speaker 1>There were like ten people. Yeah, you dig this seventh birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just it was really beautiful. He stole a

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<v Speaker 1>piece of fairy bread off the plane he did.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and a party pie as well.

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<v Speaker 1>And a box of more tesus.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, a box of more teasers because he's very excited.

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<v Speaker 2>How about your Gallantine's Night? Was it wonderful?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, girlfriends went out for dinner and called

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<v Speaker 1>it Gallantines.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of the girls that we hear as well as Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. Just had a lovely Mexican dinner. Spoke about

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<v Speaker 1>Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl a lot.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we loved it.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, we simply cannot stop talking about it. It was the

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<v Speaker 1>freaking best.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so cool. Ever, Yeah, it was amazing. And

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<v Speaker 2>everyone that was upset about it, who like, it's just

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<v Speaker 2>so annoying. I don't know who's annoying.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just racist people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I didn't know who Bad Bunny was, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think people knew yeah in the world. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it was amazing. And we went to the Book of Mormon.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, we went to the Melbourne premiere of

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<v Speaker 1>the musical The Book of Mormon. Yeah this week, Sammy,

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<v Speaker 1>please tell me what you thought about it. Well, tell

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<v Speaker 1>me what you were expecting for I know you've seen

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<v Speaker 1>the show before from this performance.

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<v Speaker 2>So I had seen it in twenty thirteen, I was

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<v Speaker 2>going overseas for the first time. I was so excited,

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<v Speaker 2>and I booked a West End show because I was like, anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a big than of South Park. I've always been

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<v Speaker 2>big fan of South Park. But I do not watch

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<v Speaker 2>every episode. I just go it's really clever. I find

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<v Speaker 2>it really funny. I find the humor really funny. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>it's a bit too gross for me with all the

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<v Speaker 2>shitting humor. Yeah, but I do find it really funny.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I just love the musical when I saw it.

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<v Speaker 2>But since then, people have told me it's changed a

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<v Speaker 2>bit in the last few years, and they've kind of

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<v Speaker 2>tried to, I guess, just bring it up to today's standards.

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<v Speaker 2>But I just don't think that's the way that South

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<v Speaker 2>Park have ever operated. So it's like, you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>get me wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>It was wrong when they wrote, like, you know, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was wrong when they wrote it, absolutely and not.

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<v Speaker 1>In a way that it's like, you know, really a

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<v Speaker 1>fency No, it's very rude. Yes, yea, but I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>because I know it very well. Yeah yeah, And I

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<v Speaker 1>only noticed one bit that they changed and like literally

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<v Speaker 1>one line in a song that they changed slightly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So but yeah, people did that as well. It was

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>It's incredible. I don't remember that level of hilarious dancing, dancing.

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<v Speaker 1>The dancing.

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<v Speaker 2>The dancing was so funny and so great, and it

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<v Speaker 2>only lent into the belief of the Mormons, which I

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<v Speaker 2>thought was so great. That they feel like they can

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<v Speaker 2>do anything. They're there to help, they're excited and everything, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Their haircuts are precise, they're.

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<v Speaker 2>Very precise, but like the most amazing performance. So I

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<v Speaker 2>also loved and it wasn't like they didn't have women

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<v Speaker 2>in the show, but I love that the women of

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<v Speaker 2>the Mormons were.

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<v Speaker 1>Always the men. Yeah yeah, because there's only like the

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<v Speaker 1>cast all the Mormons are male, yes, and so the

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<v Speaker 1>women in the cast are from the part of the

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<v Speaker 1>show where they go to Africa. Yes, so there was

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<v Speaker 1>there's one scene where like the Mormon missionaries are going

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<v Speaker 1>off on their mission and they were like saying goodbye

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<v Speaker 1>to their families at the airport. So they were like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>we need a couple of white women. So it was

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<v Speaker 1>just the Mormon boys with like really bad obvious folk

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<v Speaker 1>wiggs am. I not trying to hide it.

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<v Speaker 2>At all, but it was. It was so funny. It

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<v Speaker 2>was like I thought it would be good, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was great.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so good, wasn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so funny as well. Look I loved the

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<v Speaker 2>whole time.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, my cheeks were hurting. It sounds like it's

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<v Speaker 1>spon con It's not. We just really loved it. What

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<v Speaker 1>was your favorite song? Please?

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite song is always or I Love Salt Lake

0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.959
<v Speaker 2>a City, which I always loved, but I thought it

0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.679
<v Speaker 2>was amazing. The one that I can't pronounce that He's

0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:20.520
<v Speaker 2>always the one that was fantastic. The dancing in that

0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.880
<v Speaker 2>age was it was just brought to life. And I've

0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.280
<v Speaker 2>seen it once before, I've listened to the soundtrack a lot,

0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.920
<v Speaker 2>but the way they brought that to life was incredible

0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:29.839
<v Speaker 2>was your favorite?

0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.880
<v Speaker 1>I love Spooky Mormon Hell Dream. That's like when I

0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.400
<v Speaker 1>was listening, it was so yeah. So when I'm listening

0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.840
<v Speaker 1>to the like soundtrack, I sometimes skipped that one, but

0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.160
<v Speaker 1>like the staged version.

0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Is so yeah good. It was brilliant, Like everyone was funny,

0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.600
<v Speaker 2>everyone was great. There were little added moments in there.

0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.520
<v Speaker 2>There's characters that just pop up for a second that like,

0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.840
<v Speaker 2>that's incredible. It's so funny. And also like I think

0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:58.600
<v Speaker 2>that's the thing about you know, Trey Parker and Matt

0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Stone from South Park, is like it's actually an incredible musical.

0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.760
<v Speaker 2>It's also it's not just funny. They've written credible.

0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.559
<v Speaker 1>They've written a musical to take the piece out of musicals.

0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:12.880
<v Speaker 1>So they've done it in like a piece taky way

0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 1>where they're like, well, open with a big like opening number,

0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.080
<v Speaker 1>and then the next scene will be like setting the

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:19.960
<v Speaker 1>scene for what the story is going to be, and

0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.880
<v Speaker 1>then it will be arriving at the second destination, and

0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.600
<v Speaker 1>then there's a big tap number, and there's a ballad,

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.360
<v Speaker 1>and then the one before interval starts as one person song,

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.200
<v Speaker 1>and then the others from the rest of the half

0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:33.960
<v Speaker 1>of the show come back in with their little bits,

0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Like they're taking the piss out of the formula of

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.240
<v Speaker 1>every musical and in doing that they've made a fucking.

0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Great musically, really good And because they're so talented they

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.040
<v Speaker 2>can write music. They can and like I don't know

0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 2>everything they do. Like even you look at Team America

0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.079
<v Speaker 2>their film and you go, yeah, even the songs are

0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:57.760
<v Speaker 2>so catchy and so great. What is it America? Fuck?

0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Comment again to say the mother and that is a

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.720
<v Speaker 2>pisce take on Americans. Yes, And so it's so that

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.040
<v Speaker 2>were it's so funny because they do just take the

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:09.599
<v Speaker 2>piece out of people.

0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.240
<v Speaker 1>And in doing that make a really.

0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Brilliant piece, make a really amazing piece of work. And

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:18.800
<v Speaker 2>g Love saw me absolutely star struck. It's not the

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.760
<v Speaker 2>first time you've legitimately seen me starstruck.

0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 1>No, Karen from Sea Change, you were as well, oh yeah,

0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 1>but that was you were a bit more weird about that.

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't like walk. I didn't want to talk to

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 1>her two starstruck. You didn't want to embarrass yourself.

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And then she came to a live show and

0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.280
<v Speaker 2>I was like, hi, Karen from Sea Change, and my

0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.199
<v Speaker 2>friend grabbed me and went her name is Katie.

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.920
<v Speaker 1>And you know that. So we were out the front

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:50.200
<v Speaker 1>of the show at interval, and dear listeners, if you

0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 1>have been listening for a while, you know Sammy has

0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 1>brought up the Real Housewives of Melbourne.

0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, a few times many.

0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:01.240
<v Speaker 1>He loves the Real Housewives of Melbourne. Petty Flir from

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 1>the Real Housewives of Melbourne walked out of the doors

0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.760
<v Speaker 1>and walked towards us, and SAMU went, oh my god,

0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 1>like this, and then Pettiflir said to met walked directly

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 1>up to me and went, miss Love and gat me

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.839
<v Speaker 1>a big hug. Sammy's faint like I'm not exaggerating, and

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.440
<v Speaker 1>I say, your mouth like it was jaw to the floor,

0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 1>and you were just staring at her, and so I went, I.

0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Think I'm the only heterosexual in the world with huge family.

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Petty fl So I said, this is Sammy, he loves you,

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 1>this is Pettyflir. And Sammy, you looked at her and

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.560
<v Speaker 1>you went, now I've met you and Janet Roach I

0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 1>do remember.

0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.960
<v Speaker 2>That, yes, And also I'd like to add a bit

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.600
<v Speaker 2>as an out of body appearance. I didn't bring that

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:45.520
<v Speaker 2>up forgot.

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:46.560
<v Speaker 1>We have to see her again.

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Janet Roach I met twice. You remember. Once I met

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 2>her at Rob Mills's birthday party. She was just out

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 2>of the front. She get all Mills, he wouldn't mind

0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>and something like that, and major Janet Roach. I kept

0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.280
<v Speaker 2>filling a Janet Roach. And then I saw her at

0:14:58.520 --> 0:14:59.880
<v Speaker 2>the airport.

0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Told that story on here before.

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. And someone next to me was like,

0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 2>what's the deal?

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Who is that?

0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.560
<v Speaker 2>No one knows? But yes, so pettifloir incredible.

0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 1>And then I said, can Sammy please get a photo

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.280
<v Speaker 1>with you? Because I knew you wouldn't have asked, and

0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 1>you desperately would have.

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And so then she put her leg across my waist.

0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Incredible stuff. And then she asked if she could get

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 2>a photo on her phone.

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, of you.

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 2>And then she followed me on Instagram dot com and

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.520
<v Speaker 2>then she said you have amazing energy.

0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, she's right, but it was.

0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.680
<v Speaker 2>It was so lovely.

0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.120
<v Speaker 1>So you telling me right now on the record, you

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 1>and pet Flair in a relationship.

0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, committed relations sexual. Ah, it's not there yet, but

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:51.560
<v Speaker 2>it will be soon. Oh my god.

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Yeah.

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Like I keep saying to you that diggsi but Diggs

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 2>is seven. Yes, yes, he wants to have his first

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 2>kiss this year.

0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't know.

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 2>You get this.

0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.920
<v Speaker 1>It makes my heart hurt when you say, Sam. He's

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.600
<v Speaker 1>been saying for the first like two months of this year.

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Digs is thinking because he turns seven this year, maybe

0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 1>seven with the age where he gets his first he

0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:15.440
<v Speaker 1>has his first kiss.

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know why.

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:18.680
<v Speaker 1>It hurts my heart. It makes me a little.

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Bit such a gentleman, and I think he would be

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 2>so he.

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Did, he'd be a big, a good kisser.

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. Practices

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.120
<v Speaker 2>on dad quite a lot, but not in that way.

0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 2>Just so he just likes to give me a kiss.

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 2>But I reckon. And this is why I want you

0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 2>to take him to the dog park, because you get

0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 2>embarrassed around me.

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Digs would, yeah, but if you could.

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Take Himo the dog park to help his chat to

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 2>girls and stuff like to chat to. There's a Primrose

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>who was a little bulldog.

0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.000
<v Speaker 1>It's the best name for him.

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 2>So cute, a little beautiful primrose, and he was always

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 2>just like like really cute with her, Like we just

0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of sidle up to her and just stand.

0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 1>So you're asking me to take your dog to the

0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 1>dog park and help him flirt with Primrose the bulldog.

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Have his first kiss. Wouldn't that beautiful? No, talk to

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 2>me about it for ages after.

0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.879
<v Speaker 1>I don't really, he's looking at me funny. Now tell me.

0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Embarrassed jobs please JEMs. But yeah, so Digs will maybe

0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.120
<v Speaker 2>have his first kiss this year, and I will consummate

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.159
<v Speaker 2>my relationship with Petty Flair. And I'm putting that on

0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 2>the record right now.

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.359
<v Speaker 1>I've got one question, follow up question. Is that a

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:24.200
<v Speaker 1>threat or a promise?

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:25.920
<v Speaker 2>It's a threat and a promise.

0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh should you take that out?

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Why?

0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 1>No, no reason, Petty Flir. If you're listening, blink twice.

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.199
<v Speaker 2>But yeah I was. I was so star struck. And

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.919
<v Speaker 2>it really doesn't happen. I think it is for me.

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.199
<v Speaker 2>It is people who you've either grown up watching. So

0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.400
<v Speaker 2>for me, see Change was the show that I watched

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.880
<v Speaker 2>with my family growing up. So you have this idea

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.119
<v Speaker 2>of people and for Real Housewives and Melbourne. I watched

0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:01.440
<v Speaker 2>every single episode in COVID. Oh that like it's.

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Your Yeah, it's like that bubble time of.

0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Bubble time of going. That's when I watched Celebrity.

0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 1>That's when I watched Ship's Creek. So that's my show

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.400
<v Speaker 1>from that time. It was dedicated time because you were

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 1>never out doing anything else, Like every night it'd be like,

0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:16.880
<v Speaker 1>should we watch for more episodes?

0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like a time capsule moment my my friend.

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.440
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not going to say the name because of name.

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Mom. Hey, how much do you like Real Housewives? Do

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.240
<v Speaker 1>you get this reference name? Mom?

0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 2>I love that name. So name. So he once saw

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Scotty Camp and he went, I fucking loved Scotty Camp.

0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 2>And it was the funniest thing I've ever heard because

0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:42.880
<v Speaker 2>it was Scotti Cam, who is from the block, the block.

0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know the block, and he just kept saying,

0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, Scotty Camp, it's got a camp because

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 2>he decided to watch all of like all of the block,

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Like he just started watching all the episodes all the block, which.

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Which if you're listening from overseas and you don't know

0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 1>this show, it's a renovation reality.

0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, we needed to get you out of here.

0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.160
<v Speaker 2>It was too much like just being excited about Scotti Camp.

0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.760
<v Speaker 2>But I feel like people have and I'd love to

0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 2>hear from your listeners. If you have a person.

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.119
<v Speaker 1>A niche, a niche celebrity.

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.520
<v Speaker 2>It can't be like, oh my god, Margo, Robbie or anything.

0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.400
<v Speaker 2>It has to be such a niche.

0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.679
<v Speaker 1>That other people would go whoa really Yeah?

0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Have you had one of those where it's like,

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.399
<v Speaker 2>I think, cac your sister. It's like that was Robs

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and Mills.

0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh my god, so

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Joe Christie and Joel Christie Joel crazy. Yeah, she's a

0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.159
<v Speaker 1>bit more cool with Joe Crazy now, but she still

0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 1>loses her mind over Rod meals. We like, we're good

0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.399
<v Speaker 1>friends with Rob Mills. Yeah, so Katie is now my sister,

0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 1>not if you're miss Vanity. That wasn't very good. I

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.399
<v Speaker 1>started saying it was good though it was. That's okay,

0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:52.560
<v Speaker 1>and we'll just cut that out.

0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 4>Edit it.

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but do not edit the consummate the relationship with

0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Petty Flair. Do not edit that bit out.

0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 1>This is gonna be this story is really long. We've

0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.160
<v Speaker 1>been bullshitting on for someone. No one cares about anything.

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.879
<v Speaker 2>I think they do. That's why you're wrong, Triky Babe,

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Heychookie babe, I'm never wrong.

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm never wrong. I think we should get a crack

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.600
<v Speaker 1>on with the story. Yes, but Katie loves Rob Mills.

0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, okay, so right, whatever we would love to

0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.160
<v Speaker 2>hear from you. We're gonna do the mailbag section as

0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.920
<v Speaker 2>always at the end. Please do right in Sammy at

0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.320
<v Speaker 2>just Another Company dot com dot au. You can leave

0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.800
<v Speaker 2>a speak pipe below. That's a voice that you can

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.560
<v Speaker 2>leave us. We love hearing your voice.

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>You must leave us a five star review. You must

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.160
<v Speaker 1>leave us a five star rating.

0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 4>That's right.

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.399
<v Speaker 2>Let's get into this week's episode.

0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.439
<v Speaker 1>Now. Today. I need a big shout out at the

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.399
<v Speaker 1>top of this story. Yes, thank you, and a credit

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 1>to our good friend Taylor who I work with. Taylor

0:20:55.080 --> 0:21:00.600
<v Speaker 1>ghost wrote this episode. So she's a writer. Yeah, and

0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 1>she's working with me at the radio station at the

0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.800
<v Speaker 1>moment and doesn't have as much of an opportunity to

0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.399
<v Speaker 1>do kind of creative writing. And she listens to this

0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 1>podcast and loves it, and she said can you famously

0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.080
<v Speaker 1>doesn't like something she tells us all the time. She said,

0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 1>could I do, Like, I just want to kind of

0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 1>do some writing if I wrote wrote an episode for

0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 1>your podcast, do you want to do it? And I

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.240
<v Speaker 1>was like, what me have a night off new things?

0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 1>I said yes, And so that's.

0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 2>So good, because Taylor also did mention you told me

0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.000
<v Speaker 2>before this that takes a lot of work to write

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:37.359
<v Speaker 2>one of these episodes.

0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 1>She goes, I really enjoyed writing, and like I enjoyed writing,

0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:42.919
<v Speaker 1>but fun, I'm not doing that again. That drooks so

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.320
<v Speaker 1>fucking long. I know that's why when you said you're

0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:53.879
<v Speaker 1>doing yes. So this episode is written by and edited

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:59.040
<v Speaker 1>and presented Sorry, written by Taylor and edited and presented

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:06.639
<v Speaker 1>by yours Georgia and Ruth Love. And if you're wondering,

0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 1>my birthday is on the thirtieth of August.

0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for saying that.

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 1>So, as I said in the intro, today, I'm going

0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.040
<v Speaker 1>to tell you a story about a journalist who chased

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.160
<v Speaker 1>stories right around the world, only to have her own

0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 1>story end and become a huge story of its own.

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Kim Wall was an award winning Swedish reporter. Go on,

0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.240
<v Speaker 1>I know what you want to do. Tell the chef,

0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.479
<v Speaker 1>tell the story about your Swedish friend the other night.

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:37.920
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it's too early for me to get

0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:40.639
<v Speaker 2>sidetracked by the Swedish chef. I'll tell this, Just do

0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the Swedis chef.

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:45.919
<v Speaker 1>No, she had a passport full of stamps and a

0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 1>binder full of stories that most journalists wouldn't even dare to,

0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.879
<v Speaker 1>stories from nuclear testing in the Marshall Islands to post

0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>war tourism in Sri Lanka and tiger poaching in India.

0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Tiger poaching yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah for like the run you know, really which people

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:05.639
<v Speaker 1>have like tiger skin.

0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Runs and doctor Phil and doctor.

0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:15.720
<v Speaker 1>People and doctor Phil. Kim had even slipped into North

0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Korea at one point because that's where she found the

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:18.720
<v Speaker 1>story was.

0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 1>She was fearless as much as she was curious and

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:24.919
<v Speaker 1>was committed to giving a voice to people that the

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:29.120
<v Speaker 1>world often overlooked. She was born on August tenth, how

0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:35.520
<v Speaker 1>many days from twenty? Who days? Oh wait, no, she

0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:40.640
<v Speaker 1>says butt. On August she was she might don't. On

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:46.240
<v Speaker 1>August tenth, twenty seventeen, when she stepped was born, No,

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the next line, yeah, it's really.

0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Good when someone else writes for you. Around.

0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 1>I have gone through and like changed things into my.

0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Clearly around.

0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 1>On August tenth, in twenty seventeen, when she stepped aboard

0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:03.399
<v Speaker 1>a homemade submarine.

0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:08.119
<v Speaker 2>This is what's why, a homemade submarine.

0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:10.879
<v Speaker 1>And she was getting on it. For a story. Yeah, okay,

0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:13.840
<v Speaker 1>that day her own story would come to an end.

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:18.040
<v Speaker 2>Look, homemade, fine for pasta fine for a beautiful source,

0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:18.520
<v Speaker 2>you know what.

0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Good for past up, but not fun to do takes

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:27.280
<v Speaker 1>so long. Oh it's fun to do past.

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:28.560
<v Speaker 2>Don't get me wrong, But yeah, I think a homemade

0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:29.199
<v Speaker 2>submarine is not.

0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I think anything that go like anything that goes, Yes,

0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:41.280
<v Speaker 1>things that make you her, things that take you underwater

0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>for an extended period of time.

0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, let's go through that one.

0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:51.919
<v Speaker 1>Come with me.

0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Flounder, Yeah, yeah.

0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:09.160
<v Speaker 1>Like submarines obviously, yes, scuba diving. I'm just like, you're

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:12.760
<v Speaker 1>not meant Humans are not meant to be underwater, No,

0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:14.760
<v Speaker 1>for a long period of time where they can't breathe.

0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:16.480
<v Speaker 2>That's why the fish is trying to lure you in.

0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:20.200
<v Speaker 1>You know you can't breathe under their area. Need some friends,

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:24.920
<v Speaker 1>right with gills, with gills, especially for a named gil,

0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:29.119
<v Speaker 1>it would be great. So if it is homemade and

0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:31.720
<v Speaker 1>is something that takes you under the water for an

0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:36.000
<v Speaker 1>extended amount of time, like a homemade fish or a submarine,

0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:38.480
<v Speaker 1>which is what Kim War went on on August ten.

0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 6>Right.

0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Kim was born in nineteen eighty seven in the small

0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Swedish town of Trellerborg.

0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Trellerburg.

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. I'm

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:52.440
<v Speaker 1>sorry if I'm not. And both of her parents, Ingrid

0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.240
<v Speaker 1>and Joakim, were both journalists.

0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:56.879
<v Speaker 2>As well waquin pinnimps No.

0:25:56.760 --> 0:26:02.440
<v Speaker 1>It was yes, yeah, no, both journals as well, both journalist.

0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Storytelling was literally in her blood. Her parents took her

0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:10.000
<v Speaker 1>across Europe before she could even walk or talk. They

0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:14.440
<v Speaker 1>were very well traveled, very learned. They were juggling reporting

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 1>trips with holidays and raising a daughter who was absorbed

0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 1>being absolutely everything around her. She was just her brain

0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.720
<v Speaker 1>was a little sponge, and she loved her. They taught

0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:25.919
<v Speaker 1>Kim what made a good article, how to ask the

0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:29.399
<v Speaker 1>right questions, and how to always stay curious. So it

0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.680
<v Speaker 1>was no surprise when Kim went on to study international

0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:37.280
<v Speaker 1>relations at the London School of Economics. So she's almost

0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 1>not right in the head that she earned her Masters

0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:45.760
<v Speaker 1>in journalism from Columbia University. Smart Cookie. By the age

0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:48.439
<v Speaker 1>of twenty six, she was already well and truly carving

0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 1>out her own path as a fearless journalist, with bylines

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:55.680
<v Speaker 1>appearing in publications including Harper's Magazine, The New York Times,

0:26:56.000 --> 0:27:01.600
<v Speaker 1>The Atlantic, Vice, and The Guardian twenty six. She traveled

0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:04.760
<v Speaker 1>the world on competitive grants that recognized her huge talent,

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.960
<v Speaker 1>so she was like getting awarded grants everywhere she went.

0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:12.600
<v Speaker 1>She moved through China, Sri Lanka, u Ganda.

0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:14.639
<v Speaker 2>You Ganda, Oh my god, I'm not going to do

0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:15.680
<v Speaker 2>the song because.

0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 1>Uganda is the place in Africa that Book of Mormon

0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:35.639
<v Speaker 1>is set from. Africans are African, but we are Africa.

0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:41.639
<v Speaker 1>But when he says you're Ganda, he goes, where is that?

0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh bye?

0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:44.879
<v Speaker 1>Like lying king, That's what I thought you were going

0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:48.880
<v Speaker 1>to do. Anyway, She moved through China, Sri Lanka, Uganda, Haiti,

0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 1>North Korea, India, and the Marshall Islands. Is all for

0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:56.760
<v Speaker 1>her own reporting on her own. Yeah, she was really

0:27:56.800 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 1>driven by a commitment to give smaller and marginalized communities

0:28:01.320 --> 0:28:04.040
<v Speaker 1>of voice. Sure, no matter the risk to getting the story.

0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:05.720
<v Speaker 2>She's amazing love him well.

0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:09.920
<v Speaker 1>She didn't just cover stories. She really delved into harder

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:10.359
<v Speaker 1>for them.

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:10.639
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't she.

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:14.600
<v Speaker 2>I find it really interesting when journals become so obsessed

0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 2>with the story. And I think at some point we'll

0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:19.520
<v Speaker 2>talk about the Golden State Killer and yes, you know

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Michelle McNamara like people like that that become so obsessed

0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 2>on one story, even like Ritas Vickibtradas. Yeah, very similar actually,

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:34.600
<v Speaker 2>and just people that become so obsessed with something.

0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:38.600
<v Speaker 2>I just find that so like you know, Watergate like stuff,

0:28:38.640 --> 0:28:40.760
<v Speaker 2>like we've become all.

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Their time and energy and effort into one that is fascinating. Yeah,

0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:50.000
<v Speaker 1>I would like I've definitely got the intrigue and curiosity

0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:52.760
<v Speaker 1>to do that. I'm like, this is what I think

0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:57.280
<v Speaker 1>when journos, you know, uncover some massive, big scoop and

0:28:57.280 --> 0:28:59.800
<v Speaker 1>breaking story that they've been working on for six months

0:28:59.840 --> 0:29:02.480
<v Speaker 1>or two years. I'm always like, I'm really jealous that

0:29:02.520 --> 0:29:06.080
<v Speaker 1>they've got the time to do that, Like how are

0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 1>they like their employer just going yep, we'll pay you

0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:11.760
<v Speaker 1>a salary and we just trust that you're going to

0:29:11.800 --> 0:29:13.160
<v Speaker 1>come with a good story and go and do your

0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:15.280
<v Speaker 1>own thing. Yeah, yeah, I'll be so good.

0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:18.120
<v Speaker 2>I dream about Helen Ghana last night. I want to

0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:22.040
<v Speaker 2>tell this really quickly, really quickly, horny, I'm Hony Well

0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:26.200
<v Speaker 2>talk about Petty Flair and Helen Ghan. So, Helen Ghana

0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a love letter to in a dream, actually

0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 2>did and I'm back with corrections. Red pen through that.

0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Ah, she's one of mine. I feel like that is

0:29:41.600 --> 0:29:43.360
<v Speaker 1>the amount of time you and I have been together.

0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:48.560
<v Speaker 1>That is that infiltrating your dreams. I love Helen. What

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:56.160
<v Speaker 1>that's so funny, that's great. My sister, My sister had

0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:58.440
<v Speaker 1>a dream that when we went down to FESTIVALI, that

0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 1>food and wine festival in Tazzi, she dreamt that my

0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:04.640
<v Speaker 1>ex husband was there as well, and it was fine, like,

0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:07.440
<v Speaker 1>you know where, that's fine, but she was like, it

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:10.560
<v Speaker 1>was really awkward because we wanted to go to Tazzy

0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:12.680
<v Speaker 1>for the weekend to avoid him because he was going

0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:17.080
<v Speaker 1>through a really big controversy because he'd bitten politicians.

0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:21.120
<v Speaker 2>But yes, I can imagine him doing that. Also, your

0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 2>beautiful Snaide message Movie four saying I'll have to go

0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:26.920
<v Speaker 2>down and some grapes of mirth and hang out with

0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:31.840
<v Speaker 2>her and go down to Lone Sense Britain was yeah, yeah, anyway,

0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:32.240
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter.

0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:34.120
<v Speaker 1>We'll catch up with later later.

0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, we'll catch up later. People people still like went

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:43.200
<v Speaker 2>in a tell that amazing Swedish chef story that's coming

0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:43.600
<v Speaker 2>that later.

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:45.480
<v Speaker 1>That's called a hook.

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:48.720
<v Speaker 2>And no one's sticking around for.

0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:53.520
<v Speaker 1>That when he said at the start, like if you

0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:55.800
<v Speaker 1>want to just listen to the story, people have just

0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.880
<v Speaker 1>like searched the name Kim Wall and they've not heard

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:02.360
<v Speaker 1>this podcast before. They ione listening to the story, like.

0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I remember how gun last night. I was small, small.

0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Way into the story. You're going, oh, by the way

0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:09.720
<v Speaker 1>she made message mean Niki.

0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Britain's in, it really doesn't matter.

0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:17.440
<v Speaker 1>By early twenty seventeen, Kim Wall was living in Copenhagen

0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:20.280
<v Speaker 1>with her partner All seventeen.

0:31:20.480 --> 0:31:21.360
<v Speaker 2>She was born no.

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 1>I said that one before they had only been dating

0:31:25.240 --> 0:31:27.520
<v Speaker 1>for a couple of months, but things had moved really

0:31:27.560 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 1>quickly and they'd moved into an artist's loft overlooking Copenhagen Harbor.

0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Sounds so cool. It was really trendy, which is a

0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:44.400
<v Speaker 1>very trendy word. Trendy. Trendy in like a cool industrial neighborhood,

0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:48.240
<v Speaker 1>kind of like meatpacking District of New York, filled with creatives.

0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:54.200
<v Speaker 1>And interestingly it was also full of amateur rocket builders.

0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah really, yes, amateur rocket builders is the scariest thing

0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:00.000
<v Speaker 2>of a verd.

0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Just down the road from where Kim and All lived

0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:08.959
<v Speaker 1>was Rocket Madsen's Space Lab, a community attempting to build

0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:12.120
<v Speaker 1>a crowd funded Danish space program.

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:16.120
<v Speaker 2>That's insane. So like crowd crowd fund to be able

0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 2>to do.

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 1>That, crowdfunded version of NASA in.

0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:21.000
<v Speaker 2>You shouldn't be able to do that, should be laws

0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 2>in place, build your own rock.

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:30.960
<v Speaker 1>But you know who would find that fascinating? Kim Wall? Yes,

0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:32.480
<v Speaker 1>of the subject of the story.

0:32:32.400 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:38.120
<v Speaker 1>For her as a journalist, this story was irresistible. She

0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:41.800
<v Speaker 1>began interviewing members of this program for a piece that

0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 1>she was writing for Wired.

0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:44.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:45.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah.

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:47.440
<v Speaker 1>It always makes me think of Simpsons when he's reading

0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:48.480
<v Speaker 1>and he thinks it's weird.

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

0:32:50.720 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.800
<v Speaker 1>And this is the first time Kim Wall heard the

0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:55.360
<v Speaker 1>name Peter Madsen.

0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:32:56.720 --> 0:33:00.800
<v Speaker 1>So remember it was called the Rocket mads Space Lab.

0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, very different.

0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Peter Madsen was an eccentric inventor. Has anyone who's ever

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.120
<v Speaker 1>been labeled an inventor been anything other than extent?

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Like La Musk.

0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:17.600
<v Speaker 1>He was a minor celebrity in Denmark. He was a

0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:22.520
<v Speaker 1>man who owned and built rockets, submarines and had a

0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 1>reputation for brilliance.

0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:27.080
<v Speaker 2>A reputation for brilliance. Oh my god, who is he

0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Brice Courtney. When are you going to build a spaceship? Yes,

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:36.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, I can't talk. When uh are you going

0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:41.400
<v Speaker 2>to go into how he made all his money? Okay, no, no, great.

0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:43.680
<v Speaker 2>I just want to know because if you're building rockets

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and stuff, and if you're like an eccentric scientist, you

0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:49.719
<v Speaker 2>wonder where that money comes from because there must be

0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:52.600
<v Speaker 2>some sort of investor that goes I believe in you,

0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:54.600
<v Speaker 2>and that means they become more and more eccentric.

0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly, because there's someone talking to them about how

0:33:58.720 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 1>well this is crowdfunded.

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Sure, remember remember.

0:34:02.560 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, So Kim reached out to Peter Madsend, but weeks

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:08.799
<v Speaker 1>passed without her ever hearing back. Then months and she thought,

0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:12.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm never going to hear back from this man. Then suddenly,

0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:16.319
<v Speaker 1>out of the blue, after months of hearing nothing, on

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:18.640
<v Speaker 1>August tenth, twenty seventeen, Oh.

0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:20.240
<v Speaker 2>My god, twenty days before your birthday.

0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:25.719
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Peter replied he had a test rocket due

0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:29.520
<v Speaker 1>to launch the day prior, but it was canceled because

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 1>of financial issues. Sure, crowdfunding both make that?

0:34:44.800 --> 0:34:45.719
<v Speaker 2>What's gross?

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:48.920
<v Speaker 1>You were both pictured as well, aren't we? Oh yuck?

0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Move on, Move on, move on. So the rocket Launch

0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:55.279
<v Speaker 1>will test. Rocket Launch was meant to have launched there

0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:59.560
<v Speaker 1>before it was canceled. But Peter was eager to stay

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:02.279
<v Speaker 1>in the spot and have his program remain in the

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:03.840
<v Speaker 1>spotlight pretty like.

0:35:04.040 --> 0:35:06.360
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't obviously a private person before this. He was

0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:08.600
<v Speaker 2>very centrick and gave lots of years and everything. Yeah.

0:35:08.640 --> 0:35:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, Um.

0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:11.839
<v Speaker 2>She'd been writing to him for a while.

0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he never got back to her. I think

0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:16.680
<v Speaker 1>because he was planning this Rockett think that was what

0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:18.440
<v Speaker 1>was on his mind, and he thought this will be

0:35:18.440 --> 0:35:19.960
<v Speaker 1>in the news anyway, I don't need to get back

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:22.760
<v Speaker 1>to one. Yeah, Jo. But then when it was canceled,

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:24.480
<v Speaker 1>he was like, shit, I want to be in the spotlight.

0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 1>I need I want a story about me. So not

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:30.120
<v Speaker 1>only did Peter Madsen agreed to do the interview, he

0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 1>actually invited Kim aboard his own personal eighteen foot submarine

0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:38.880
<v Speaker 1>named the UC three Nautilus.

0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:43.759
<v Speaker 2>Great name. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's how big is that?

0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Eighteen foot? Yeah? But how big is I don't even know?

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, if you think six foot is like, you know,

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:52.040
<v Speaker 1>you're about six.

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Foot, I'm I'm about I'm way tall. That probably twice

0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:58.120
<v Speaker 2>of that you think you're twice six you think that, Yeah,

0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:02.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm about twelve feet tall, I'm about I'm about four

0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:04.080
<v Speaker 2>subway sandwiches.

0:36:05.040 --> 0:36:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Yes, wait no, into okay, so you're two feet tall? Yes, yes, okay.

0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>So this submarine was for five point five meters.

0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 2>Not huge. No, that's quite small, I would think for

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:28.160
<v Speaker 2>a submarine for two.

0:36:28.000 --> 0:36:32.439
<v Speaker 1>People to be. I guess you can't make anything bigger

0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:33.720
<v Speaker 1>than six meters by yourself.

0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, of course that's the rule.

0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:36.279
<v Speaker 1>That's the rule economics.

0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:38.680
<v Speaker 2>That's really interesting though, because that doesn't seem.

0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:41.080
<v Speaker 1>No, that's not big, like I reckon your couch is

0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:43.920
<v Speaker 1>about two meters because yes, okay, so it's a bit

0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:44.479
<v Speaker 1>more than double.

0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 2>That's great for the listeners to about visual What if

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:51.239
<v Speaker 2>I what if I go, what is the regular size.

0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Of a submarine?

0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 2>What is? Yeah? What is what is the standard?

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:54.000
<v Speaker 3>No?

0:36:54.040 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 1>But it's not like I think you can get submarines

0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:58.560
<v Speaker 1>anywhere from like a little thing that one person could

0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:01.319
<v Speaker 1>fit in and like an army submarine that's obviously going

0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:03.480
<v Speaker 1>to be much bigger. That's like saying, what's the standard

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:05.600
<v Speaker 1>size of a boat.

0:37:06.120 --> 0:37:10.120
<v Speaker 2>It is approximately sixty to eighty meters.

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:14.880
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, but what like what kind of submarine?

0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Surely is standard submarine? Get over it often range between

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:20.359
<v Speaker 2>attack submarines.

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Often range you're asking me, you're giving me.

0:37:23.160 --> 0:37:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Attack often range between seventy and one hundred and fifteen meters.

0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:30.400
<v Speaker 1>This one is five and a half.

0:37:30.280 --> 0:37:32.279
<v Speaker 2>Ballistic missile submarine.

0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:33.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't like this has got a funny place.

0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:36.880
<v Speaker 2>I often exceed one hundred and fifty meters. Okay, yeah, yeah, right,

0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:38.560
<v Speaker 2>So there can be lots of different sizes, but this

0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:39.880
<v Speaker 2>does seem.

0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Can I show you how far we are to the story?

0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't matter? This is I've got five hours anyway. I

0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:49.160
<v Speaker 2>feel like that is quite small for a submarine.

0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 1>It's a small submarine there, I said it.

0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, And if you've got a fish next to

0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:56.640
<v Speaker 2>you going come down, come down.

0:37:56.600 --> 0:38:00.640
<v Speaker 1>Come on in the water is fine, just fine under us?

0:38:00.640 --> 0:38:04.960
<v Speaker 1>See under us. He it was supposed to be a

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:09.839
<v Speaker 1>quick ride, n As pleases to be a one hour

0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:13.680
<v Speaker 1>interview aboard the submarine, just enough time for Kim to

0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:15.840
<v Speaker 1>grab a story and make it back to the going

0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:18.480
<v Speaker 1>away party that she and all were hosting that night.

0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:20.920
<v Speaker 2>On the Submarine Doctor, or if you call it that,

0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:23.960
<v Speaker 2>or the submarine submerged.

0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:27.200
<v Speaker 1>I think submarines are. Once they're in the water, they're

0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:31.319
<v Speaker 1>always submerged. They don't like to tarn for a while. No, no,

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:41.520
<v Speaker 1>I think just one doctor, yeah, doctor birthed, birthed. You

0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:43.319
<v Speaker 1>didn't ask me why they're having going away party?

0:38:43.960 --> 0:38:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Going away party.

0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:47.319
<v Speaker 1>They were set to move to Beijing in a week's time,

0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:50.480
<v Speaker 1>and while the timing wasn't ideal to go and do

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.680
<v Speaker 1>an hour interview for this exclusive story a week before

0:38:53.680 --> 0:38:56.320
<v Speaker 1>they were moving and the night of the going away party,

0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Kim was a journalist who would never pass up a

0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:00.000
<v Speaker 1>good story.

0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Bloody Candy's white over here.

0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.839
<v Speaker 1>So all agreed to start the party without her if

0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:07.040
<v Speaker 1>she wasn't back in time, and she promised to join

0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:09.480
<v Speaker 1>everyone as soon as the interview wrapped up. That is

0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>like green flag behavior, babe. If you like, if you

0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:16.440
<v Speaker 1>want to do this and you need to do this,

0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and you think it's going to be a great story,

0:39:18.440 --> 0:39:20.840
<v Speaker 1>go don't worry about us, Come join us whenever.

0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:22.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm joining us. Later, on Valentine's Day, met just opening

0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:25.520
<v Speaker 2>up a love letter written back with just all these

0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:27.080
<v Speaker 2>red lines.

0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Did you say anything back or just this is the

0:39:31.120 --> 0:39:37.920
<v Speaker 1>red lines? That's my love language? Correct you? So at

0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:42.080
<v Speaker 1>around seven pm on August ten, Kim walked the short

0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:46.239
<v Speaker 1>distance from her loft apartment to the dock. It was

0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:48.840
<v Speaker 1>so close that all and their guests could actually see

0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:55.360
<v Speaker 1>where the submarine was from their apartment window. They watched

0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:59.919
<v Speaker 1>Kim climb aboard the Nautilus with Peter. They were like, oh, look,

0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:03.080
<v Speaker 1>we'll see you after they could actually say. It made

0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 1>just after eight pm. So an hour later, Kim sent

0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:12.320
<v Speaker 1>all a text that only in hindsight feels a little chilling.

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:15.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm still alive bt W.

0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:18.640
<v Speaker 2>She right, okay, yeah, cook cook could be quite a

0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:20.480
<v Speaker 2>fun thing to write, like, I'm fine.

0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I'm still alive. But going down.

0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:24.719
<v Speaker 2>Now, going down now.

0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:30.400
<v Speaker 1>I love you. A moment later her final text, he

0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:34.640
<v Speaker 1>brought coffee and cookies though, and those were the last

0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:36.880
<v Speaker 1>words anyone would ever hear from Kim.

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:40.759
<v Speaker 2>Or my god, So going down like that. So that

0:40:40.880 --> 0:40:42.200
<v Speaker 2>was a part of the plan though.

0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So it was like kind of going on board,

0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:49.080
<v Speaker 1>doing their interview in there, and then he's probably gone.

0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:51.120
<v Speaker 1>You want to see how it works, Like let's just

0:40:51.200 --> 0:40:53.080
<v Speaker 1>go because it was only meant to be an hour

0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:56.399
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing, and after an hour she's gone, I'm

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:59.360
<v Speaker 1>still alive. Don't worry, but we're going down now. I

0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:01.520
<v Speaker 1>love you. He's got coffee and cookies.

0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:41:04.520 --> 0:41:08.239
<v Speaker 1>What happened next inside that submarine would become one of

0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:14.840
<v Speaker 1>the most shocking and weirdest true crime cases in Scandinavian history,

0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:17.160
<v Speaker 1>but just in history.

0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:25.160
<v Speaker 1>So who was Peter Madsen? Cue to many in Denmark?

0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:29.600
<v Speaker 1>He was an eccentric inventor and Elon Musk type. Yeah,

0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:33.640
<v Speaker 1>of course, with big dreams of building rockets, submarines and

0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 1>conquering space travel.

0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:39.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and economical car.

0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:41.280
<v Speaker 6>Are you okay?

0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:42.080
<v Speaker 1>What happened then?

0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:44.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure. I was trying to say something about

0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the Tesla, but then I kind of got confused.

0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:52.040
<v Speaker 1>Economical color. Yeah, my brother in law has a Tessa Yeah. Yeah,

0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:57.279
<v Speaker 1>too many in Denmark Madsen was I've already read that

0:41:57.320 --> 0:42:00.760
<v Speaker 1>whole sentence. Born on January twelfth? Why do I always

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:03.520
<v Speaker 1>mark up the sentence before the birthday? So sorry, this

0:42:03.560 --> 0:42:06.239
<v Speaker 1>episode is going to go for five hours. He was

0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:08.520
<v Speaker 1>born on January twelve, nineteen seventy one.

0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that's like nine months before your birthday.

0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:15.239
<v Speaker 1>So what are you saying? Oh my god about what

0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:15.719
<v Speaker 1>if I missed?

0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:15.879
<v Speaker 2>You?

0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Just be an idiot. Fuck, I'm gonna be here for

0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:21.200
<v Speaker 1>three days. I need for someone to be His parents

0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:23.680
<v Speaker 1>were Annie and Carl, and they lived in a small

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:27.239
<v Speaker 1>town just south of Copenhagen. Is it Copenhagen or Copenhagen

0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:31.000
<v Speaker 1>I think, but I think like anglicized we.

0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Call it Copenhagenen.

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, I'm going to call it that. Annie was

0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:38.400
<v Speaker 1>more so Annie and Kyle were his parents. Annie was

0:42:38.440 --> 0:42:42.080
<v Speaker 1>more than thirty years younger than Karl. Oh wow, okay,

0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:45.120
<v Speaker 1>and she already had three sons from previous relationships.

0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:49.839
<v Speaker 1>Boys, who Carl was allegedly abusive towards Oh my god,

0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:55.400
<v Speaker 1>thirty more than thirty years age different time, Toby Maguire,

0:42:56.000 --> 0:43:01.719
<v Speaker 1>spider Man. Yep, yep, he is allegedly dating someone who

0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:05.840
<v Speaker 1>is thirty years younger than him and one year older

0:43:05.880 --> 0:43:07.240
<v Speaker 1>than his daughter.

0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:10.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's crazy, that's crazy.

0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:15.320
<v Speaker 1>He started dating a twenty year old Marita and literally

0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:19.080
<v Speaker 1>just told you. When Peter was six, Annie left Carl

0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:23.279
<v Speaker 1>and took her children with her. A few years later.

0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Peter did return to live with his father, however, and

0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:30.200
<v Speaker 1>the two of them shared a powerful bond. They were

0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:35.560
<v Speaker 1>both obsessed with rockets, sure so that his early years

0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:40.400
<v Speaker 1>were a little bit tumultuous. Yes, yeah, yeah, there was.

0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:42.799
<v Speaker 1>There was alleged abuse, and there was also the kind

0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:45.520
<v Speaker 1>of going back and forth between like all the kids

0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:47.640
<v Speaker 1>went with mum and they didn't see for ages, but

0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:49.799
<v Speaker 1>then after a few years went with dad only and

0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:52.480
<v Speaker 1>it was yet very rock matuous, rockety.

0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Just go with tumultuous. I like what you said as wrongs.

0:43:57.120 --> 0:44:00.600
<v Speaker 1>In high school, Peter's fascination with rockets and engineering was

0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:04.200
<v Speaker 1>really encouraged by his chemistry and physics teacher, and by

0:44:04.200 --> 0:44:06.760
<v Speaker 1>the age of just fifteen, he had built his first

0:44:06.880 --> 0:44:11.600
<v Speaker 1>rocket fifteen, Yeah, a one meter tour creation. You have

0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.400
<v Speaker 1>anything to say about size of that? I'm happy with that? Yeah, fun, okay,

0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:18.600
<v Speaker 1>fuck that shot one hundred meters into the air before

0:44:18.640 --> 0:44:20.600
<v Speaker 1>crashing back down. It didn't matter.

0:44:20.840 --> 0:44:24.279
<v Speaker 2>He was hooked. Yeah, yeah, and I'll say yeah. It

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:27.640
<v Speaker 2>just realized I don't have any idea of size of

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:29.680
<v Speaker 2>rockets or care about that, but I really care about

0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 2>size ands.

0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Apparently, when Peter was nineteen, his father died, and Peter

0:44:39.960 --> 0:44:43.200
<v Speaker 1>threw himself even deeper into their shared obsession. It was

0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:45.759
<v Speaker 1>kind of like, I don't have my dad to do

0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:47.799
<v Speaker 1>this with anymore. So I'm going to do it even

0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:50.160
<v Speaker 1>harder like this now for both of us.

0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right.

0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:56.000
<v Speaker 1>He joined the Danish Amateur Rocket Club. Sure he didn't

0:44:56.040 --> 0:45:00.640
<v Speaker 1>quite fit in imagine not fitting into amateur pretty weird.

0:45:02.600 --> 0:45:10.520
<v Speaker 1>While he studied, studied welding, refrigeration, mechanics, engineering, anything that

0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 1>he could that would help him build the machines that

0:45:12.719 --> 0:45:14.279
<v Speaker 1>he imagined he wanted to build.

0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Even study refrigeration, yes, okay, kitchen, kitchen.

0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he didn't actually have a formal engineering degree. He

0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:30.880
<v Speaker 1>would study engineer and study all around that, and members

0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:34.880
<v Speaker 1>of this Danish amateur rocket club found him difficult. His

0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:39.080
<v Speaker 1>enthusiasm was certainly there, but so was his ego. I'm

0:45:39.120 --> 0:45:42.239
<v Speaker 1>literally I've just realized in my head i am picturing yeah.

0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:42.759
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Conflict seemed to follow Peter Elon wherever he went. In

0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:51.880
<v Speaker 1>the early two thousands, he shifted his attention under.

0:45:51.680 --> 0:45:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Water, okay, under the see.

0:45:56.560 --> 0:46:01.600
<v Speaker 1>At the Copenhagen Port, he built three submarines. They were called,

0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Now this is so weird. The three names were Frayer, Cracker,

0:46:11.520 --> 0:46:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and the u See. Three nautialists.

0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:19.160
<v Speaker 2>That's really funny. That's funny on him. If you knew

0:46:19.160 --> 0:46:20.760
<v Speaker 2>he was going to make three and call one.

0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Just like a lady's name. Ye, cracker. I don't know

0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:25.360
<v Speaker 1>what that means.

0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:28.200
<v Speaker 2>No, that must be like turn your phone on silent.

0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.880
<v Speaker 1>That's what messag Why is she messaging you so much?

0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:33.160
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:39.960
<v Speaker 1>The you see three Nautialists was famously or those feet long.

0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:49.960
<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, okay, I think I should have edited this better.

0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I think that there has been a typo in this.

0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:56.759
<v Speaker 1>So when earlier I said eighteen feet long, it was

0:46:56.800 --> 0:46:58.280
<v Speaker 1>actually fifty eight feet.

0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:02.440
<v Speaker 2>That's quite that's quite different six feet wide. So I

0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:05.320
<v Speaker 2>think I was right to have my I really thought.

0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:08.080
<v Speaker 1>And I'm going there's all different sides.

0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:13.800
<v Speaker 2>It's not that small. No, fifty eight not to believe

0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:17.319
<v Speaker 2>anymore at all. Okay, so that's a normal size maybe

0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:17.959
<v Speaker 2>a normal size.

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, No, you know when I said they can

0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:21.960
<v Speaker 1>be small, I was thinking of that. You know the

0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:26.120
<v Speaker 1>Titanic submersible. Oh I went down. Yeah, that's that's like kind.

0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Of a little yeah.

0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but maybe that's why they called it submersible, not

0:47:29.600 --> 0:47:30.200
<v Speaker 1>a submarine.

0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, so it's a normal size submarine.

0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Guys, I've done normal research for this, and as well

0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:41.920
<v Speaker 1>as well it was you love this line. Sorry, snorted,

0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:44.680
<v Speaker 1>you love this line after that whole discussion about how small.

0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:50.040
<v Speaker 1>So the Nautilus was fifty eight feet long, six feet

0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:53.520
<v Speaker 1>wide and the largest privately built submarine in the world.

0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Here I was believe you think five meters like.

0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Five and a half. I said, like, that's twice this couch.

0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:11.160
<v Speaker 2>It was the one I guess, and you're going, come on,

0:48:11.200 --> 0:48:15.120
<v Speaker 2>there can be all different sizes. It was the love

0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:18.360
<v Speaker 2>of love. You can't just say it's twice his couch

0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:21.680
<v Speaker 2>and I go, oh, I guess. I've got the cookies

0:48:21.719 --> 0:48:25.320
<v Speaker 2>and coffee. Don't worry about it. From twice my couch.

0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:31.600
<v Speaker 1>It was the largest okay, privately submarine in the world

0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:32.360
<v Speaker 1>at the time.

0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Peter had lived in Yeah, okay, definitely more than twice

0:48:42.200 --> 0:48:42.680
<v Speaker 2>my couch.

0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:54.320
<v Speaker 1>But even though he lived in the submarine under the scene,

0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:57.840
<v Speaker 1>his real first love was rockets, and in two thousand

0:48:57.840 --> 0:49:03.319
<v Speaker 1>and eight he had co founded Copenhagen Suborbitals with an

0:49:03.440 --> 0:49:06.680
<v Speaker 1>ar connect named Christian. Their mission was to build a

0:49:06.719 --> 0:49:09.640
<v Speaker 1>crowd funded rocket and send Peter into space.

0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Crazy crazy Is it a crowd crowd fund of rocks

0:49:15.239 --> 0:49:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and then go in it? Yeah? Well, Katy Perry, get

0:49:18.040 --> 0:49:18.479
<v Speaker 2>over it.

0:49:18.680 --> 0:49:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Get over it. For six years. The partnership between Christian

0:49:22.640 --> 0:49:28.879
<v Speaker 1>van Bengston and Peter Manson worked until it didn't. Peter

0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:32.040
<v Speaker 1>hated the idea of anyone acting like his boss, and

0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:36.160
<v Speaker 1>tensions rose between them again sounds like Elon Muskin does,

0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:41.439
<v Speaker 1>it really does, and the relationship really soured. Eventually Peter

0:49:41.520 --> 0:49:44.800
<v Speaker 1>walked out and he took several workers with him.

0:49:44.920 --> 0:49:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Sure, okay.

0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Then in twenty fourteen, so that was two thousand and

0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:53.279
<v Speaker 1>eight they started that. In twenty fourteen he launched his

0:49:53.320 --> 0:49:57.959
<v Speaker 1>own rival company. Oh my god, yeah, RML space Lab

0:49:58.760 --> 0:50:05.520
<v Speaker 1>rocket Madson. That's from before Rocketman, Spacelan, Spacelab, Spaceland, Oh

0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:10.160
<v Speaker 1>my god. His goal for RML space Lab was to

0:50:10.200 --> 0:50:15.920
<v Speaker 1>beat Copenhagen suborterbles and sub orbitals to a successful rocket launch.

0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:19.480
<v Speaker 1>This became a personal Yeah.

0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:20.080
<v Speaker 2>He's obsessed with that.

0:50:20.400 --> 0:50:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Two stupid rich men were not stupid, I mean quite learned.

0:50:25.400 --> 0:50:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, built a submarine over five meters and so they're

0:50:27.719 --> 0:50:28.719
<v Speaker 2>quite quite smart.

0:50:28.960 --> 0:50:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Smart smart, I mean just like you know, stupid in

0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:35.920
<v Speaker 1>that they made their life mission to just beat the

0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:39.280
<v Speaker 1>other person in crowd funding spaceship to.

0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:41.640
<v Speaker 2>But you look at the wealth, like the amount, so

0:50:41.800 --> 0:50:45.000
<v Speaker 2>like people who are crowdfunding a rocket or a submarine.

0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:49.440
<v Speaker 2>They are wealthy, elite people like that's why to have

0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:52.520
<v Speaker 2>that amount of money to go because it's not a charity.

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:54.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's exactly I was going to say, spend

0:50:54.400 --> 0:50:58.760
<v Speaker 1>it on something else. Exactly, something else, many other things.

0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:01.879
<v Speaker 1>Stop putting people into space for not.

0:51:02.280 --> 0:51:02.719
<v Speaker 2>To be there.

0:51:03.000 --> 0:51:05.480
<v Speaker 1>We don't have to be there. And I know, well

0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but I assume and believe there must

0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:11.239
<v Speaker 1>be reasons we send people into space more than just

0:51:11.440 --> 0:51:12.279
<v Speaker 1>to show that we can.

0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Yep, As my granddad said when I was going to

0:51:15.200 --> 0:51:18.359
<v Speaker 2>go overseas for the first time, there's bits of jum

0:51:18.440 --> 0:51:22.040
<v Speaker 2>Bunner you ain't seen yet. What's John Banner is the

0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:25.160
<v Speaker 2>smallest little town, not even a town. It's one road

0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:26.720
<v Speaker 2>outside of current Borough.

0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 1>And so he was saying, why would you.

0:51:28.280 --> 0:51:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Why would you bother going over to London where I

0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:33.959
<v Speaker 2>saw this one offul musical book a woman. He said,

0:51:34.080 --> 0:51:36.239
<v Speaker 2>there's bits of jum Bunny you ain't even seen yet.

0:51:36.360 --> 0:51:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh he's a current Borough man, And he said, no,

0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:41.040
<v Speaker 2>there's bits of jum Bunny ain't seen yet.

0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Why did you bother going to London? We've got London

0:51:44.560 --> 0:51:45.719
<v Speaker 1>at home. Yea, Jim Banna.

0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my dad goes to the airport sometimes and just

0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:51.120
<v Speaker 2>sits there and goes. You just see where everyone's going.

0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:53.640
<v Speaker 2>They're all going different places. You can see the world.

0:51:53.800 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Why would you go anywhere when the world comes to you? What?

0:51:56.600 --> 0:52:00.400
<v Speaker 1>He sits at the airport to watch people. Yeah, he

0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:01.799
<v Speaker 1>travels from Philip Island to.

0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:04.279
<v Speaker 2>If you want to go one time and said, do

0:52:04.280 --> 0:52:07.080
<v Speaker 2>you want to come and see at the airport? What

0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:13.439
<v Speaker 2>so you can watch everyone for what We'll see where

0:52:13.440 --> 0:52:15.279
<v Speaker 2>everyone's going. He likes to guess where people are going.

0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, his heart is too pure. I cannot

0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:20.200
<v Speaker 1>but yeah.

0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:22.319
<v Speaker 2>But so that's that's quite an elite thing to be.

0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Like the amount of money I would take in in

0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:28.840
<v Speaker 2>one city even fuel the rocket.

0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:34.880
<v Speaker 1>In Copenhagen alone, there are two rival companies both making

0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:38.279
<v Speaker 1>private rockets just to because they can.

0:52:38.680 --> 0:52:39.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess that's nuts.

0:52:42.360 --> 0:52:47.440
<v Speaker 1>By twenty seventeen, Peter had scheduled a test launch, but

0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:50.319
<v Speaker 1>financial problems, as we said earlier, forced that to be

0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:56.960
<v Speaker 1>canceled and a five submarine half. Financial problems stopped the

0:52:57.040 --> 0:53:02.240
<v Speaker 1>launch from going ahead, and the setback really bruised his ego.

0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:08.360
<v Speaker 1>So when journalists Kim Waull had reached out again, saying

0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:13.040
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to interview you. He said yes, and he

0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:16.560
<v Speaker 1>offered her something irresistible. On that very day that he

0:53:16.640 --> 0:53:20.279
<v Speaker 1>was emailing her. He offered her a ride aboard the

0:53:20.400 --> 0:53:24.359
<v Speaker 1>UC three Nautilus and an exclusive interview with the man

0:53:24.520 --> 0:53:27.720
<v Speaker 1>behind what was known as the mechanical Whale.

0:53:28.640 --> 0:53:37.319
<v Speaker 7>Of course, so big really it was. So she knew

0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:40.400
<v Speaker 7>she was going to go down on the ride, but

0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:41.280
<v Speaker 7>probably didn't.

0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Know how long.

0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, yes, but no, she'd said it was an hour interview.

0:53:45.239 --> 0:53:46.360
<v Speaker 1>She was going to be there for an hour and

0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:48.920
<v Speaker 1>then come back to the party afterwards. And after an

0:53:48.960 --> 0:53:52.600
<v Speaker 1>hour she had messaged all saying still alive, I'm going

0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:54.680
<v Speaker 1>down Like so it was.

0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Kind of a.

0:53:57.239 --> 0:53:59.279
<v Speaker 1>Like have a little like you know what it's like,

0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:05.040
<v Speaker 1>cookie has coffee. Yes. By ten pm on the night

0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:09.920
<v Speaker 1>of the interview, something didn't feel right to all. The

0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:12.120
<v Speaker 1>going away party that Kim was supposed to return to

0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:15.800
<v Speaker 1>after a quick one hour trip on the Nautilus was

0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:19.839
<v Speaker 1>starting to wind down. The harbor was dark, and Kim

0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:22.759
<v Speaker 1>still hadn't returned home to the party, and she was

0:54:22.760 --> 0:54:26.200
<v Speaker 1>only meant to be gone for gone totally for two

0:54:26.200 --> 0:54:29.200
<v Speaker 1>hours max. For interview is an hour, Maybe there'll be

0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:32.480
<v Speaker 1>some preamble, maybe have a walk back two hours. Max

0:54:33.560 --> 0:54:36.279
<v Speaker 1>All tried calling her again and again. In the end

0:54:36.280 --> 0:54:38.960
<v Speaker 1>he had called her a dozen times with no answer.

0:54:40.239 --> 0:54:43.720
<v Speaker 1>So when the party wrapped up everyone left. He walked

0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:47.040
<v Speaker 1>down to Peter's like the dock where Peter's workshop was,

0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:51.360
<v Speaker 1>which was just minutes from their apartment, hoping and assuming

0:54:51.400 --> 0:54:54.560
<v Speaker 1>he would see any signs of Kim. Peeking inside of

0:54:54.600 --> 0:54:58.359
<v Speaker 1>Peter's workshop, All could see that the nautilust still wasn't there,

0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:02.040
<v Speaker 1>and that meant that Kim and Peter must have still

0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:06.800
<v Speaker 1>been out in the water. By two thirty am, panic

0:55:06.840 --> 0:55:09.400
<v Speaker 1>had well and truly set in, and All called the

0:55:09.440 --> 0:55:12.719
<v Speaker 1>police and the Danish coast Guard before jumping on his

0:55:12.800 --> 0:55:15.200
<v Speaker 1>bike to search the shoreline himself. Isn't that just like

0:55:15.200 --> 0:55:18.520
<v Speaker 1>the cute Like it's just such a Copenhagen picture. It's like,

0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:19.840
<v Speaker 1>ich on my bike.

0:55:19.680 --> 0:55:22.360
<v Speaker 2>And probably think at that point there's been a terrible accident.

0:55:22.800 --> 0:55:25.959
<v Speaker 1>Got of course they're underwater and no one's seen them again.

0:55:26.680 --> 0:55:27.200
<v Speaker 4>Horrible.

0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:32.279
<v Speaker 1>As the sun rose over Copenhagen that morning, there was

0:55:32.320 --> 0:55:37.200
<v Speaker 1>still no sign of Kim, Peter nor the submarine helicopters

0:55:37.239 --> 0:55:41.040
<v Speaker 1>were sweeping the bay and the Coastguard boats traced the coastline.

0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Kim's parents were alerted, and by morning Danish media had

0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:49.520
<v Speaker 1>picked up the story. Had the homemade submarines sunk? Had

0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:54.160
<v Speaker 1>something gone terribly wrong underwater? No one knew, No one

0:55:54.200 --> 0:55:58.640
<v Speaker 1>had heard a thing. Nearly twelve hours after Kim vanished,

0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:03.040
<v Speaker 1>at ten thirty am, authorities finally made contact with Peter

0:56:03.440 --> 0:56:06.160
<v Speaker 1>after the nautilus had been spotted from a lighthouse.

0:56:06.520 --> 0:56:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay. Peter spoke to.

0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:13.920
<v Speaker 1>The lighthouse over the radio. He was calm and casual,

0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:18.360
<v Speaker 1>as if nothing was wrong. We're fine, he said, before

0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:20.600
<v Speaker 1>telling them that he was heading back to the harbor

0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:24.640
<v Speaker 1>then and there. But thirty minutes later, a fishing boat

0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:29.560
<v Speaker 1>spotted the submarine in Kyrger Bay, away from the dock.

0:56:29.800 --> 0:56:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, right.

0:56:31.000 --> 0:56:33.520
<v Speaker 1>A fisherman reported seeing Peter pop out of the hatch

0:56:34.000 --> 0:56:37.239
<v Speaker 1>wave and then did appear back down inside. So this

0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:39.640
<v Speaker 1>is like a typical looking submarine, right the bit the

0:56:39.680 --> 0:56:41.200
<v Speaker 1>pops out the top of the water and that's all

0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:43.799
<v Speaker 1>you can see, and the submarin itself is out, so

0:56:43.880 --> 0:56:47.000
<v Speaker 1>he had said. Authorities from like the lighthouses spotted they've

0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:50.080
<v Speaker 1>obviously put out like a we're looking.

0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:51.400
<v Speaker 2>For this show you were searching for it.

0:56:51.520 --> 0:56:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the light. Some people in the lighthouse have gone, yes,

0:56:54.800 --> 0:56:57.319
<v Speaker 1>it is here. Authorities have been able to make radio

0:56:57.360 --> 0:57:00.239
<v Speaker 1>contact with him. Knowing where the location was. He's gone, yeah,

0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:01.920
<v Speaker 1>we're all good, heading back now, don't worry about it.

0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:04.759
<v Speaker 1>Then half an hour later he pops out the top.

0:57:05.040 --> 0:57:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Someone in a kerga bay sees him. He waves and

0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:13.080
<v Speaker 1>pops back down in. Then moments later the nautilus began

0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:30.600
<v Speaker 1>to sink. Peter Madsen resurfaced just himself, leaped into the

0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:34.400
<v Speaker 1>resurface through the hatch, jumped into the water and swam

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:37.960
<v Speaker 1>toward the fishing boat as the submarine slipped beneath the

0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:39.120
<v Speaker 1>surface behind him.

0:57:39.360 --> 0:57:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, what a sign.

0:57:43.000 --> 0:57:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Like this guy's popped up from submarine, wavedlight and then

0:57:45.920 --> 0:57:47.800
<v Speaker 1>it's sinking and he just comes out and swims over

0:57:47.840 --> 0:57:48.000
<v Speaker 1>to you.

0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:48.360
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

0:57:49.560 --> 0:57:52.080
<v Speaker 1>The fisherman took Peter aboard and brought him to shore,

0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:56.240
<v Speaker 1>which was just four miles away. Reporters had swarmed the

0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:59.480
<v Speaker 1>dock by this point were waiting with cameras rolling and

0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:04.320
<v Speaker 1>microphone outstretched. In the footage of Peter climbing up onto

0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:07.440
<v Speaker 1>the dock, like from getting out from this fisherman's boat.

0:58:08.520 --> 0:58:11.880
<v Speaker 1>He gives a thumbs up to the camera. He said

0:58:11.880 --> 0:58:14.760
<v Speaker 1>he was really upset the submarine had sunk, but that's

0:58:14.800 --> 0:58:19.600
<v Speaker 1>all he said. Made no mention of where the submarine was,

0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:24.000
<v Speaker 1>and there was no mention of Kim what. Kim's family

0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:26.520
<v Speaker 1>stood off to the side of this press conference, horrified.

0:58:27.760 --> 0:58:31.200
<v Speaker 1>The media didn't yet know that anyone else had been

0:58:31.240 --> 0:58:35.439
<v Speaker 1>on board. It was only Kim's loved ones who knew

0:58:35.440 --> 0:58:37.440
<v Speaker 1>the gravity of what was unfolding right in front of

0:58:37.480 --> 0:58:42.640
<v Speaker 1>their eyes. Police quickly escorted Peter away for questioning, and

0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:48.240
<v Speaker 1>that's when his story began to form. Peter claimed that

0:58:48.280 --> 0:58:51.520
<v Speaker 1>there had been a mechanical failure on board the Nautilus,

0:58:51.840 --> 0:58:57.520
<v Speaker 1>explaining that the blast tanks ballast probably balance ballast tanks,

0:58:57.960 --> 0:59:00.440
<v Speaker 1>which are tanks that can fill with water so that

0:59:00.480 --> 0:59:03.720
<v Speaker 1>the sub can submerge, but then they can empty their

0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:06.320
<v Speaker 1>lift it back up again. That's like how a submarine

0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:10.479
<v Speaker 1>goes under water and up again. He said that those

0:59:10.560 --> 0:59:14.360
<v Speaker 1>tanks had malfunctioned, so the submarines started taking on water

0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:15.400
<v Speaker 1>and he couldn't save it.

0:59:16.080 --> 0:59:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:21.040
<v Speaker 1>He insisted that Kim was fine and he insists to police,

0:59:21.040 --> 0:59:23.480
<v Speaker 1>because they were anyones that said anything about it. Again,

0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:26.080
<v Speaker 1>he hadn't said anything to media, insisted that she was fine,

0:59:26.240 --> 0:59:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that he had dropped her off safely on the coastline

0:59:29.240 --> 0:59:32.000
<v Speaker 1>where she lived, of refshelun.

0:59:32.760 --> 0:59:35.520
<v Speaker 2>So he went back to where the party kind of

0:59:35.520 --> 0:59:37.600
<v Speaker 2>you could see it from, dropped her off and then

0:59:37.600 --> 0:59:38.720
<v Speaker 2>went back up by fine.

0:59:38.760 --> 0:59:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I went out, and that's when the ballanced things malfunctioned.

0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Investigators were able to rule that theory out almost immediately.

0:59:47.840 --> 0:59:51.000
<v Speaker 1>The area was blanketed with like CCTV, and when they

0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:53.320
<v Speaker 1>pulled all of the footage, that showed exactly what they

0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:55.600
<v Speaker 1>needed to know that no one had ever been dropped

0:59:55.600 --> 0:59:58.080
<v Speaker 1>off that night, at least of book Kim. There was

0:59:58.200 --> 1:00:00.960
<v Speaker 1>no sign of her anywhere, and the holes in Peter's

1:00:00.960 --> 1:00:06.640
<v Speaker 1>story were beginning to show on August twelve, So the

1:00:06.720 --> 1:00:10.560
<v Speaker 1>day that he reappeared was August eleven. Then the next

1:00:10.600 --> 1:00:14.760
<v Speaker 1>day Peter appeared before a judge in a private hearing,

1:00:15.160 --> 1:00:19.480
<v Speaker 1>and there his story changed again. He now admitted that

1:00:19.560 --> 1:00:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Kim had not been dropped off and said that she

1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:24.920
<v Speaker 1>died in an accident.

1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:27.120
<v Speaker 2>Died in an accident and waited.

1:00:26.800 --> 1:00:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Before he was like in front of the judge who

1:00:30.240 --> 1:00:34.000
<v Speaker 1>was kind of changing him with wow, say, okay, okay,

1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:37.080
<v Speaker 1>I admit she died, but it was an accident. According

1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:42.480
<v Speaker 1>to this new version of events, Peter that he claimed

1:00:42.480 --> 1:00:45.960
<v Speaker 1>that the one hundred and fifty pound hatch of like

1:00:46.000 --> 1:00:48.520
<v Speaker 1>that you pop up on the top of submarine had

1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:52.080
<v Speaker 1>come loose and had struck Kim on the head while

1:00:52.200 --> 1:00:55.080
<v Speaker 1>she was trying to go up through it. He said

1:00:55.120 --> 1:00:57.240
<v Speaker 1>he found her in a pool of her own blood,

1:00:57.680 --> 1:01:00.960
<v Speaker 1>and he panicked falling into a depressed sieve, states so

1:01:01.240 --> 1:01:03.880
<v Speaker 1>severe he had to lay down for a few hours

1:01:03.920 --> 1:01:04.760
<v Speaker 1>to sleep it off.

1:01:04.960 --> 1:01:08.560
<v Speaker 2>A few hours to sleep, adrenaline would hit and you

1:01:08.560 --> 1:01:09.320
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be able.

1:01:09.360 --> 1:01:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I'm so upset to find this woman dead.

1:01:11.840 --> 1:01:15.520
<v Speaker 1>I'd better sleep for a few hours. This fucking guy.

1:01:17.520 --> 1:01:20.840
<v Speaker 1>On waking from his slumber, Peter says he made the

1:01:20.840 --> 1:01:24.919
<v Speaker 1>decision to bury him out at sea, so he's left

1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:26.600
<v Speaker 1>her dead in a pool of her blood and slept

1:01:26.640 --> 1:01:27.920
<v Speaker 1>for a few hours.

1:01:29.240 --> 1:01:29.919
<v Speaker 2>To get her out.

1:01:31.480 --> 1:01:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Investigators immediately questioned this logic. The Nautilus wasn't in the

1:01:35.800 --> 1:01:38.880
<v Speaker 1>middle of the ocean. It was in cell phone range

1:01:38.920 --> 1:01:44.160
<v Speaker 1>of Copenhagen, in a really busy shipping channel. Why hadn't

1:01:44.160 --> 1:01:45.840
<v Speaker 1>he serviced immediately.

1:01:45.480 --> 1:01:47.280
<v Speaker 2>And called for help accident?

1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:50.720
<v Speaker 1>His story just simply didn't add up. So the police

1:01:50.800 --> 1:01:54.720
<v Speaker 1>changed him then and there with involuntary manslaughter, which is

1:01:54.920 --> 1:01:59.400
<v Speaker 1>interesting to me. Why involuntary. I guess they were believing

1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:02.720
<v Speaker 1>made that he'd well, they weren't because they were like.

1:02:03.960 --> 1:02:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I guess if they're saying that, and.

1:02:05.480 --> 1:02:07.479
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they believed that the thing hit her on the head.

1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:10.800
<v Speaker 1>The fact that he didn't need immediately call authorities is

1:02:10.840 --> 1:02:12.240
<v Speaker 1>what made it like more.

1:02:12.280 --> 1:02:13.200
<v Speaker 2>That's really strange.

1:02:13.360 --> 1:02:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but that was the initial change they gave him

1:02:19.200 --> 1:02:21.560
<v Speaker 1>while they continued to gather evidence and try to work

1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:24.440
<v Speaker 1>out what had actually happened. Yeah, okay, they knew he

1:02:24.520 --> 1:02:27.000
<v Speaker 1>wasn't telling the full truth. They just needed time to

1:02:27.040 --> 1:02:29.680
<v Speaker 1>prove it and work out what the truth actually was. Wow,

1:02:30.440 --> 1:02:35.000
<v Speaker 1>on August thirteen. So the following day again divers recovered

1:02:35.000 --> 1:02:38.600
<v Speaker 1>the sunken nautilus and towed it ashore. Much of the

1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:41.160
<v Speaker 1>physical evidence had been washed away by the seawater.

1:02:41.400 --> 1:02:41.840
<v Speaker 4>Oh wow.

1:02:41.960 --> 1:02:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why they waited that long term, but

1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:47.920
<v Speaker 1>the mechanics of the summarine were able to tell a

1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:52.280
<v Speaker 1>clear story. There was nothing wrong with the holderless at all.

1:02:52.400 --> 1:02:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, there had been no malfunction. The sinking

1:02:57.280 --> 1:03:04.920
<v Speaker 1>was very intentional, and investigators now knew whatever had happened

1:03:05.040 --> 1:03:10.120
<v Speaker 1>to kim Wall, Peter was hiding it. Dunt dunt du

1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:15.160
<v Speaker 1>dun dun dum. In the days after the Nautilus say,

1:03:15.720 --> 1:03:19.160
<v Speaker 1>investigators worked around the clock searching for any sign of

1:03:19.240 --> 1:03:21.800
<v Speaker 1>kim Wall. Of course, so I mean it goes. It

1:03:21.920 --> 1:03:24.240
<v Speaker 1>goes without saying, I haven't said it. Kim Wall wasn't

1:03:24.320 --> 1:03:30.280
<v Speaker 1>on board, no, okay. Peter remained in custody while police divers,

1:03:30.320 --> 1:03:34.680
<v Speaker 1>helicopters and specialized search teams swept Copenhagen.

1:03:34.040 --> 1:03:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Harger Hager Hager than ever, just.

1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Trying to get really into the Copenhagen Harbor and Kruger Bay.

1:03:46.960 --> 1:03:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Even cadaver search dogs were brought in, which I've never like,

1:03:50.280 --> 1:03:51.640
<v Speaker 1>how would they like in the water.

1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:55.160
<v Speaker 2>No, they're taking them. They brought the submarine back.

1:03:55.120 --> 1:03:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but like it had been in the water for

1:03:57.320 --> 1:04:01.040
<v Speaker 1>I think it's interesting, like like bringing a dogs. I

1:04:01.080 --> 1:04:03.400
<v Speaker 1>would think that the salt water and everything would.

1:04:03.520 --> 1:04:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Make it hard. Yeah, I thought you thought that they

1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:06.520
<v Speaker 2>were making themselves swim.

1:04:06.600 --> 1:04:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, get out with the fish. The fish. Period of time,

1:04:11.960 --> 1:04:15.400
<v Speaker 1>there was still no sign of Kim. Then on August

1:04:15.480 --> 1:04:19.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty one, Oh my god. Yeah, eleven days later after

1:04:19.440 --> 1:04:25.160
<v Speaker 1>she disappeared birthday, Yes, good math, a cyclist riding along

1:04:25.160 --> 1:04:28.400
<v Speaker 1>the beach several miles from where the naudialist had launched

1:04:29.080 --> 1:04:31.560
<v Speaker 1>noticed something pale near the shoreline.

1:04:31.720 --> 1:04:31.959
<v Speaker 3>God.

1:04:32.520 --> 1:04:35.680
<v Speaker 1>On closer inspection, he realized it was a do you

1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:36.880
<v Speaker 1>want to guess what it was?

1:04:36.960 --> 1:04:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Kim?

1:04:38.440 --> 1:04:40.120
<v Speaker 1>It was part of Kim.

1:04:40.440 --> 1:04:41.160
<v Speaker 2>My god.

1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:46.880
<v Speaker 1>It was a woman's torso, weighted down with pieces of metal,

1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:50.480
<v Speaker 1>presumably to try to keep it submerged water.

1:04:50.640 --> 1:04:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Trying to think, oh my god, I didn't know. I've

1:04:54.120 --> 1:04:55.400
<v Speaker 2>heard a little bit about this story. I didn't know

1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:58.560
<v Speaker 2>that she was found. Yeah, wow, this.

1:04:58.640 --> 1:04:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Is this is really lucky.

1:05:00.160 --> 1:05:00.640
<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry.

1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:06.000
<v Speaker 1>There were no limbs nor head. Oh god, it was

1:05:06.160 --> 1:05:10.240
<v Speaker 1>just a torso, and the condition of the remains made

1:05:10.280 --> 1:05:14.520
<v Speaker 1>it immediately clear that some some serious violence had occurred.

1:05:15.680 --> 1:05:19.840
<v Speaker 1>There were fifteen stab walls present, mainly in the groin area.

1:05:20.080 --> 1:05:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:05:22.240 --> 1:05:25.640
<v Speaker 1>The location was just south of Copenhagen, in the same

1:05:25.720 --> 1:05:27.680
<v Speaker 1>bay where Peter had been rescued.

1:05:28.680 --> 1:05:29.240
<v Speaker 5>Wow.

1:05:29.720 --> 1:05:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's obviously dumped her in, Oh my god. But

1:05:32.440 --> 1:05:37.120
<v Speaker 2>also like just oh, just dissecting her is just yeah,

1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:37.960
<v Speaker 2>oh my god.

1:05:38.080 --> 1:05:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Two days later, forensic testing confirmed that the remains

1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:46.600
<v Speaker 1>did belong to Kim Wall. The torso painted a picture

1:05:46.720 --> 1:05:50.800
<v Speaker 1>far beyond anything Peter had claimed. Absolutely, Here's claim of

1:05:50.840 --> 1:05:54.560
<v Speaker 1>an accidental death by the hitting her on the head

1:05:54.600 --> 1:05:58.760
<v Speaker 1>and a panicked burial at sea no longer aligned at

1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:03.520
<v Speaker 1>all with the gruesome evidence at hand. Detectives pressed him

1:06:03.800 --> 1:06:06.600
<v Speaker 1>over and over for hours and hours and days and days.

1:06:06.480 --> 1:06:07.320
<v Speaker 2>With the new evidence.

1:06:07.440 --> 1:06:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, and he wasn't able to offer up anything

1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:12.000
<v Speaker 1>that made any sense.

1:06:13.080 --> 1:06:13.160
<v Speaker 3>What.

1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:18.000
<v Speaker 1>September fifth, Madson appeared in court again, with police now

1:06:18.240 --> 1:06:21.720
<v Speaker 1>requesting that he remained in custody while the investigation continued.

1:06:21.920 --> 1:06:27.840
<v Speaker 1>So involuntary man slaughshup probably wouldn't usually justify like a

1:06:27.920 --> 1:06:32.120
<v Speaker 1>custodial like a romand yes, but because it was like,

1:06:32.160 --> 1:06:34.560
<v Speaker 1>we've only charged him with this while we work out

1:06:34.600 --> 1:06:38.360
<v Speaker 1>what actually happened, keep him behind bars. Wow, But Peter

1:06:38.440 --> 1:06:40.880
<v Speaker 1>was sticking to the original explanation that there had been

1:06:40.880 --> 1:06:45.560
<v Speaker 1>an accident involving the hatch door then on October sixth,

1:06:45.960 --> 1:06:49.000
<v Speaker 1>so it was August ten that she went out with

1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:53.520
<v Speaker 1>him on the submarine. On October six divers searching the

1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:55.640
<v Speaker 1>sea bed made a breakthrough.

1:06:55.800 --> 1:06:56.240
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

1:06:56.440 --> 1:07:02.320
<v Speaker 1>They found a garbage bag containing a knife and Kim's clothes. Wow.

1:07:03.120 --> 1:07:05.280
<v Speaker 1>They then found another God.

1:07:05.240 --> 1:07:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Would never imagine to find that ever.

1:07:07.800 --> 1:07:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Especially like two months later when they've been searching everything.

1:07:11.240 --> 1:07:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:07:11.720 --> 1:07:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Clearly Peter wasn't expecting you found it either. Then they

1:07:16.640 --> 1:07:20.360
<v Speaker 1>found another garbage bag with a leg, then another bag

1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:25.960
<v Speaker 1>with the other leg, and then you can imagine other

1:07:26.040 --> 1:07:29.040
<v Speaker 1>bags with the rest of the rest of Kim was found,

1:07:29.720 --> 1:07:33.200
<v Speaker 1>and they had all been carefully contained and weighted down.

1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Forensic experts examined the skull and ruled that there were

1:07:37.960 --> 1:07:42.880
<v Speaker 1>no signs of head injury, and like, so, first of all,

1:07:42.880 --> 1:07:45.160
<v Speaker 1>they were like, the cause of death wasn't a head injury,

1:07:45.320 --> 1:07:48.320
<v Speaker 1>but also Peter had said she was hit on the

1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:50.680
<v Speaker 1>head by the hatch. Yes, of course, so no matter

1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:54.840
<v Speaker 1>how she's died, it wasn't that there was no evidence

1:07:54.960 --> 1:07:57.600
<v Speaker 1>of any trauma to the head at all, let alone

1:07:57.640 --> 1:08:00.000
<v Speaker 1>something that would have been fatal like Peter had said.

1:08:01.280 --> 1:08:04.200
<v Speaker 1>So immediately his explanation completely collapsed.

1:08:04.680 --> 1:08:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:08:07.600 --> 1:08:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, this is my favorite part of this story. Favorite

1:08:11.760 --> 1:08:15.000
<v Speaker 1>sounds is the wrong work story, but I feel like

1:08:15.040 --> 1:08:18.000
<v Speaker 1>this is the part that you'll remember, because this part

1:08:18.120 --> 1:08:21.679
<v Speaker 1>of this story makes the whole thing sound like it's

1:08:21.720 --> 1:08:23.920
<v Speaker 1>made up for a television movie.

1:08:24.000 --> 1:08:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, because.

1:08:27.360 --> 1:08:32.439
<v Speaker 1>All the while, while Peter was building his rockets and

1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:35.200
<v Speaker 1>his submarines and all of this was going on in

1:08:35.240 --> 1:08:40.919
<v Speaker 1>real time, the guy who liked attention was being filmed.

1:08:43.280 --> 1:08:49.400
<v Speaker 1>At the time of Kim's disappearance, an Australian filmmaker named

1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:53.880
<v Speaker 1>Emma Sullivan had been documenting Peter and his team at

1:08:54.120 --> 1:08:56.440
<v Speaker 1>RML Space Lab for a documentary.

1:08:56.560 --> 1:08:57.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I do remember this, yep.

1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:00.679
<v Speaker 1>Months earlier.

1:09:00.840 --> 1:09:04.120
<v Speaker 2>He's like a Bond villain, isn't he. Yes, Yeah, he

1:09:04.240 --> 1:09:06.200
<v Speaker 2>loves the attention loves Yeah.

1:09:06.000 --> 1:09:08.559
<v Speaker 1>He was having a documentary made about him.

1:09:09.360 --> 1:09:10.639
<v Speaker 2>Probably commissioned by him as well.

1:09:10.960 --> 1:09:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Crow crowdsourced Confunded, where he has taken a reporter onto

1:09:15.960 --> 1:09:20.040
<v Speaker 1>his submarine and so far in the story you don't

1:09:20.080 --> 1:09:22.559
<v Speaker 1>know what's happened, but she's been killed. He's lied about

1:09:22.560 --> 1:09:25.320
<v Speaker 1>it that we know for sure. They're making of his

1:09:25.520 --> 1:09:32.360
<v Speaker 1>being anyway, Seventeen months earlier, this filmmaker Emma do you know?

1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:36.519
<v Speaker 1>Do you know? Emma Sullivan, which to a journalist called

1:09:36.520 --> 1:09:40.720
<v Speaker 1>Emma O'Sullivan that her imagine was like friends with her

1:09:40.720 --> 1:09:42.559
<v Speaker 1>at work that she was by.

1:09:42.960 --> 1:09:45.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to love to see if she hasn't made

1:09:45.240 --> 1:09:47.280
<v Speaker 2>any comment about all this as well.

1:09:47.400 --> 1:09:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she had watched a ted talk that Peter Madsen

1:09:54.760 --> 1:09:56.920
<v Speaker 1>had delivered. Of course he had. It's just he's so

1:09:57.040 --> 1:09:59.960
<v Speaker 1>ill a musk, and she was fascinated by his dream

1:10:00.080 --> 1:10:03.040
<v Speaker 1>of launching himself into space in a homemade lockw. Crockett.

1:10:03.080 --> 1:10:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Of course, so Emma Sullivan reached out to him via

1:10:06.320 --> 1:10:09.600
<v Speaker 1>email in hopes of capturing the journey and making a documentary.

1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:15.479
<v Speaker 1>He of course agreed and warned in an email reply, Emma,

1:10:15.640 --> 1:10:19.719
<v Speaker 1>you were about to submerge into quite a snake pit, okay,

1:10:20.160 --> 1:10:20.800
<v Speaker 1>and how like?

1:10:23.240 --> 1:10:24.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:10:25.120 --> 1:10:29.439
<v Speaker 1>When Kim ordered the Nautilus on August ten, Emma and

1:10:29.439 --> 1:10:33.080
<v Speaker 1>her crew were already deep into filming and making this documentary.

1:10:33.479 --> 1:10:36.639
<v Speaker 1>The cameras had been rolling for months, capturing Peter's quirks,

1:10:37.200 --> 1:10:45.479
<v Speaker 1>his temper, his temper, his unpredictable mood swings, and the

1:10:45.680 --> 1:10:49.960
<v Speaker 1>unwavering admiration of the volunteers who all worked unto him.

1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:52.880
<v Speaker 2>So they just loved him so much. Yes, I couldn't

1:10:52.880 --> 1:10:55.800
<v Speaker 2>believe it to work with this guy. Get voluntary.

1:10:55.880 --> 1:10:59.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for him, we get to work for him for

1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:02.919
<v Speaker 1>no money so he can make this narcissistic little man

1:11:02.960 --> 1:11:05.760
<v Speaker 1>ego rocket ship to launch himself off into space, just

1:11:05.800 --> 1:11:07.880
<v Speaker 1>so people will know his name and he can feel

1:11:07.920 --> 1:11:11.600
<v Speaker 1>like he has a bigger dick wow. On camera, his

1:11:11.720 --> 1:11:14.840
<v Speaker 1>staff spoke about him like he was a true genius.

1:11:15.760 --> 1:11:18.160
<v Speaker 1>Some had joined the lab purely for the chance to

1:11:18.160 --> 1:11:21.439
<v Speaker 1>work with him, and Peter thrived on the attention and

1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:24.080
<v Speaker 1>the idea of being the center of a grand narrative,

1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:31.000
<v Speaker 1>of course, but the documentary also captured something else. In

1:11:31.040 --> 1:11:34.840
<v Speaker 1>the weeks leading up to Kim Wall's disappearance, Peter's behavior

1:11:34.880 --> 1:11:40.920
<v Speaker 1>on camera had grown stranger and more erratic. On August eleven,

1:11:41.000 --> 1:11:44.559
<v Speaker 1>the day after Kim vanished, Emma's cameras were rolling as

1:11:44.600 --> 1:11:47.519
<v Speaker 1>the team gathered around a screen and watched the news break.

1:11:47.920 --> 1:11:51.839
<v Speaker 1>Peter Madson, after coming back on to shore, was charged

1:11:51.880 --> 1:11:57.120
<v Speaker 1>in connection with Tim Wall's disappearance. Kim do I said, Tim, Tim,

1:11:57.240 --> 1:12:02.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, Ki, Kim, I'm sorry. That was awful. So

1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Emma and her camera crew were devastated and in disbelief.

1:12:05.840 --> 1:12:08.040
<v Speaker 1>They've been working closely with this man for months, and

1:12:08.080 --> 1:12:09.880
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, he's been changed In relation to

1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:11.679
<v Speaker 1>someone's disappearance.

1:12:11.120 --> 1:12:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Of course, and then as someone who's making this, you'd

1:12:13.720 --> 1:12:15.360
<v Speaker 2>start to go, did I see he signs? With their

1:12:15.400 --> 1:12:17.160
<v Speaker 2>footage I could bring up to actually go, well I

1:12:17.200 --> 1:12:18.439
<v Speaker 2>saw him snap there or something.

1:12:18.560 --> 1:12:18.720
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1:12:20.800 --> 1:12:23.200
<v Speaker 1>They had really admired him. They robby knew he like.

1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:27.480
<v Speaker 1>They didn't like his temper and his mood swings stuff centric, eccentric.

1:12:27.600 --> 1:12:28.240
<v Speaker 2>So I think that.

1:12:28.200 --> 1:12:30.559
<v Speaker 1>Word eccentric is never a compliment.

1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:32.960
<v Speaker 2>There never is, and it means a lot of different things.

1:12:32.960 --> 1:12:36.080
<v Speaker 1>It means this guy's a bit of a dick live wi.

1:12:36.400 --> 1:12:36.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:12:39.160 --> 1:12:41.720
<v Speaker 1>They were now being confronted with the possibility that the

1:12:41.720 --> 1:12:45.400
<v Speaker 1>man they had idolized and were choosing to put on

1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:48.840
<v Speaker 1>the screen. And they're looking at all the staff of

1:12:48.880 --> 1:12:52.920
<v Speaker 1>these people that really idolized him could be capable of

1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:54.000
<v Speaker 1>hiding someone's death.

1:12:54.360 --> 1:12:54.639
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

1:12:55.800 --> 1:13:00.080
<v Speaker 1>As the investigation progressed and new evidence emerged, the documentary

1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>captured the staff's slow recording as they began to reflect

1:13:04.040 --> 1:13:05.880
<v Speaker 1>on their own relationships with Peter.

1:13:06.280 --> 1:13:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:13:06.920 --> 1:13:09.240
<v Speaker 1>So the document like the film crew actually have.

1:13:09.960 --> 1:13:11.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes's been released all right, okay, ye.

1:13:12.120 --> 1:13:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Captured the reactions of Peter's staff and his underlings. The

1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:23.080
<v Speaker 1>cameras caught their reactions to them watching the news, watching

1:13:23.520 --> 1:13:25.800
<v Speaker 1>the breaking news that he had been charged, and then

1:13:25.880 --> 1:13:28.879
<v Speaker 1>kind of kept filming over the coming days and weeks,

1:13:29.000 --> 1:13:32.320
<v Speaker 1>and then kind of coming to terms with maybe like

1:13:32.520 --> 1:13:37.240
<v Speaker 1>switching out of their like whatever their minds had thought before,

1:13:37.320 --> 1:13:39.640
<v Speaker 1>and kind of going hang on, like everything becoming a

1:13:39.680 --> 1:13:45.679
<v Speaker 1>bit clearer. Wow at what would inevitably end up being

1:13:45.680 --> 1:13:49.880
<v Speaker 1>the trial. Footage from Emma's film would be referred to

1:13:50.000 --> 1:13:54.679
<v Speaker 1>as instrumental in spoiler alert convicting Peter.

1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:58.600
<v Speaker 2>Wow, this is available? Is it somewhere like that?

1:13:58.840 --> 1:13:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1:13:59.040 --> 1:14:00.040
<v Speaker 1>It was. I watched a new.

1:14:00.280 --> 1:14:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, right, I need to watch it.

1:14:02.560 --> 1:14:06.439
<v Speaker 1>It was all there, recorded before anyone realized they were

1:14:06.479 --> 1:14:08.720
<v Speaker 1>documenting the prelude.

1:14:08.280 --> 1:14:10.800
<v Speaker 2>To a crime. Wow.

1:14:12.120 --> 1:14:16.800
<v Speaker 1>So let's talk more about who Peter was. Among his

1:14:17.000 --> 1:14:20.320
<v Speaker 1>loyal circle of volunteers, there was one woman, an in

1:14:20.439 --> 1:14:23.960
<v Speaker 1>turn whose identity has remained to protect it. We'll call

1:14:24.000 --> 1:14:28.400
<v Speaker 1>her Kate. Throughout the documentary, Kate appears as one of

1:14:28.400 --> 1:14:33.400
<v Speaker 1>his most devoted admirers, but as the evidence against him

1:14:33.439 --> 1:14:36.920
<v Speaker 1>begins to pile up, Kate finds herself scrolling back through

1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:41.000
<v Speaker 1>old text messages with Peter. Exchanges she had once brushed

1:14:41.000 --> 1:14:44.120
<v Speaker 1>off as his dark humor suddenly in this new light

1:14:44.479 --> 1:14:48.320
<v Speaker 1>felt a bit more sinister. On the very day that

1:14:48.400 --> 1:14:53.479
<v Speaker 1>Kim borded the Nautilus, Peter had texted Kate, Nautilus is

1:14:53.479 --> 1:14:56.200
<v Speaker 1>sailing so good. Let's go on a trip tomorrow.

1:14:57.120 --> 1:14:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow. This is the day that she was Kim was born,

1:15:01.360 --> 1:15:02.760
<v Speaker 2>so that the day after he was like, let's go

1:15:02.800 --> 1:15:03.320
<v Speaker 2>on trip soon.

1:15:03.600 --> 1:15:07.040
<v Speaker 1>He's the day she was boarding. He sent a message

1:15:07.080 --> 1:15:12.919
<v Speaker 1>to Kate saying, let's go out tomorrow. In another interview,

1:15:13.360 --> 1:15:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Kate revealed a series of earlier messages she had received

1:15:16.680 --> 1:15:19.040
<v Speaker 1>from Peter. At the time, she had joked that she

1:15:19.080 --> 1:15:22.920
<v Speaker 1>should send her threat what she called quote threatening texts

1:15:23.320 --> 1:15:28.160
<v Speaker 1>to mote her sorry. She had joked that Peter should

1:15:28.200 --> 1:15:32.519
<v Speaker 1>send her threatening texts to motivate her to work. This

1:15:32.560 --> 1:15:36.480
<v Speaker 1>is how Peter replied, You must be bound in Nautilus.

1:15:37.160 --> 1:15:40.599
<v Speaker 1>I bind you to pierce you with a skewer. Then

1:15:40.680 --> 1:15:44.360
<v Speaker 1>the pocket knife comes forward. I'm looking at your throat,

1:15:44.640 --> 1:15:48.360
<v Speaker 1>dot dot dot where is the pulse. I have a

1:15:48.439 --> 1:15:51.479
<v Speaker 1>murder plan ready, which is a great pleasure. We're going

1:15:51.560 --> 1:15:54.000
<v Speaker 1>to make a movie with you, and you have no choice.

1:15:54.320 --> 1:15:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Now we're going to cut you into little pieces.

1:15:56.680 --> 1:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>He's sending this to his intern yes, and then saying,

1:15:59.400 --> 1:16:01.600
<v Speaker 2>you know before saying we should go out together, and

1:16:01.600 --> 1:16:03.519
<v Speaker 2>he's going he's saying he's got a murder plan.

1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, she has said.

1:16:05.200 --> 1:16:07.320
<v Speaker 2>She's a sexual kink that she was thinking at the time,

1:16:07.360 --> 1:16:09.479
<v Speaker 2>what was his maybe bit a bondage.

1:16:09.040 --> 1:16:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Or yeah, well yeah, because he stanced with saying like

1:16:11.400 --> 1:16:14.920
<v Speaker 1>he must be bound. Yes, she had said to him like, oh,

1:16:14.960 --> 1:16:17.160
<v Speaker 1>I need to be motivated to work. You should threaten

1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:19.280
<v Speaker 1>me so I'll have to work. Ha ha ha, Like

1:16:19.840 --> 1:16:21.799
<v Speaker 1>it's a wo wave jokey. Sure, you'll need to threaten

1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:23.920
<v Speaker 1>me so I have to work, and he goes, okay,

1:16:24.000 --> 1:16:26.280
<v Speaker 1>I'll bind you in the nautilus. I'll kill you. I've

1:16:26.320 --> 1:16:28.240
<v Speaker 1>got a murder plan. I'm going to slit your throat.

1:16:28.400 --> 1:16:29.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:16:31.720 --> 1:16:35.760
<v Speaker 1>So on reflection, when Kate looked back at these messages,

1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>she would later on go to say, it became more

1:16:39.080 --> 1:16:41.280
<v Speaker 1>and more obvious that I think it was meant to

1:16:41.320 --> 1:16:44.760
<v Speaker 1>be me on that sub I was supposed to ride

1:16:44.760 --> 1:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>with him the very next day.

1:16:46.520 --> 1:16:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:16:48.240 --> 1:16:51.479
<v Speaker 1>But remember so he said, hey, August eleven, let's go

1:16:51.560 --> 1:16:54.840
<v Speaker 1>out on the submarine. But Kim wall on August ten

1:16:55.120 --> 1:16:58.360
<v Speaker 1>had send him another hail Mary email, Hey Megan, don't

1:16:58.360 --> 1:17:00.920
<v Speaker 1>if you've been getting my other emails and he's gone, yeah, okay,

1:17:00.960 --> 1:17:01.719
<v Speaker 1>come on board tonight.

1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:03.200
<v Speaker 6>Ah.

1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:06.679
<v Speaker 2>I forgot it was that quick in the turnaround, because

1:17:07.600 --> 1:17:08.840
<v Speaker 2>she had been emailing her.

1:17:08.800 --> 1:17:11.320
<v Speaker 1>For months and she had sent an email on the

1:17:11.439 --> 1:17:14.400
<v Speaker 1>tenth and he had written back and said, yeah, okay,

1:17:14.439 --> 1:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>come on board tonight.

1:17:15.800 --> 1:17:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that's so damning. I mean that that

1:17:19.280 --> 1:17:23.639
<v Speaker 2>message in itself is so awful that you can't take

1:17:23.680 --> 1:17:25.720
<v Speaker 2>that in any other way, like that's not all.

1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:28.599
<v Speaker 1>And this Kate says that she didn't take it as

1:17:29.400 --> 1:17:32.000
<v Speaker 1>she was because she who was saying as a joke.

1:17:33.000 --> 1:17:36.360
<v Speaker 1>And look, I don't know why her identity is protected it.

1:17:37.479 --> 1:17:40.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it means either she was underage or there

1:17:40.760 --> 1:17:43.519
<v Speaker 1>was some kind of sexual charges about that, so her

1:17:43.640 --> 1:17:46.320
<v Speaker 1>identity is protected for that. So either or both of

1:17:46.400 --> 1:17:50.200
<v Speaker 1>those things could show why, you know, the kind of

1:17:50.280 --> 1:17:53.360
<v Speaker 1>relationship they might have had over messages, and like you said,

1:17:53.360 --> 1:17:54.760
<v Speaker 1>it could have been a kink kind of thing. She

1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:57.400
<v Speaker 1>had said, you need to you need to send me

1:17:57.520 --> 1:18:00.160
<v Speaker 1>threats so I'll make sure I get to work. So

1:18:00.640 --> 1:18:03.760
<v Speaker 1>this is his funny joke, made up threat that he's

1:18:03.800 --> 1:18:07.000
<v Speaker 1>sent back. And it wasn't until he'd been on a

1:18:07.040 --> 1:18:09.719
<v Speaker 1>submarine with someone who went missing and then appeared chopped

1:18:09.800 --> 1:18:11.879
<v Speaker 1>up that she's gone, oh wait fuck.

1:18:11.800 --> 1:18:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a lot more serious, And I was thinking yeah.

1:18:16.840 --> 1:18:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Then investigators uncovered something else that changed the trajectory of

1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:23.639
<v Speaker 1>the case entirely.

1:18:23.920 --> 1:18:24.160
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

1:18:25.400 --> 1:18:30.840
<v Speaker 1>When police seized Peter's computer from his workshop, they found

1:18:31.120 --> 1:18:33.320
<v Speaker 1>that this is really awful, big, big trigger warning here.

1:18:34.120 --> 1:18:36.799
<v Speaker 1>They found a hard drive containing more than one hundred

1:18:36.960 --> 1:18:41.519
<v Speaker 1>videos depicting extreme violence against women.

1:18:41.720 --> 1:18:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:18:42.560 --> 1:18:45.080
<v Speaker 1>They weren't fictional fantasy films.

1:18:45.439 --> 1:18:47.960
<v Speaker 2>They were real home video disgusting.

1:18:49.439 --> 1:18:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Former colleagues recalled Peter asking whether they had ever watched

1:18:53.479 --> 1:18:57.479
<v Speaker 1>something called a snuff film. Oh wow, conversations that they

1:18:57.560 --> 1:19:01.519
<v Speaker 1>had brushed off as like weirdo and he's just got her.

1:19:01.560 --> 1:19:03.160
<v Speaker 1>If you guys ever watched this and they're like, oh.

1:19:03.040 --> 1:19:04.639
<v Speaker 2>My god, s word eccentric again.

1:19:05.160 --> 1:19:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But the most chilling detail came from Peter's own

1:19:09.040 --> 1:19:17.080
<v Speaker 1>digital footprint. On the morning of August ten, at eight

1:19:17.200 --> 1:19:22.120
<v Speaker 1>thirty two am, investigators discovered that Peter Madsen had searched

1:19:22.280 --> 1:19:30.880
<v Speaker 1>the terms girl, agony and beheading. Oh my god, and

1:19:31.040 --> 1:19:34.040
<v Speaker 1>those three words together had led to a video which

1:19:34.080 --> 1:19:38.200
<v Speaker 1>he had clicked on and watched of an unidentified young

1:19:38.240 --> 1:19:40.840
<v Speaker 1>woman who was having her throat cut.

1:19:41.040 --> 1:19:41.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:19:43.640 --> 1:19:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Piece by piece, a digital history that contradicted every explanation

1:19:47.960 --> 1:19:52.439
<v Speaker 1>Peter had offered came to light. Kim Wall may not

1:19:52.560 --> 1:19:56.880
<v Speaker 1>have been the first woman he'd imagined harming. She was just, unfortunately,

1:19:57.000 --> 1:19:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the first who crossed his path at the wrong moment.

1:20:02.479 --> 1:20:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Peter was charged with murder. By the time he went

1:20:06.880 --> 1:20:10.880
<v Speaker 1>to trial, he was also charged with aggravated assault and

1:20:11.000 --> 1:20:12.599
<v Speaker 1>the desecration of a corpse.

1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's discussed, isn't it.

1:20:15.240 --> 1:20:20.559
<v Speaker 1>I actually, I'm really glad there is a charge for that. Yeah,

1:20:20.600 --> 1:20:23.200
<v Speaker 1>because it's like, yes, murder is a charge in itself,

1:20:23.360 --> 1:20:27.360
<v Speaker 1>but then to like to chop up someone's body, is

1:20:28.080 --> 1:20:29.000
<v Speaker 1>that's a crime in itself?

1:20:29.280 --> 1:20:29.400
<v Speaker 6>Well?

1:20:29.479 --> 1:20:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, Ow what do you do there?

1:20:32.600 --> 1:20:35.519
<v Speaker 1>I just put my elbow down really hard against the

1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:42.800
<v Speaker 1>chair from the opposite of His trial began on March eight,

1:20:43.040 --> 1:20:47.759
<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, so really soon after rearly soon, and because

1:20:47.800 --> 1:20:51.360
<v Speaker 1>the case had become, i mean, unsurprisingly one of the

1:20:51.680 --> 1:20:56.439
<v Speaker 1>most publicized in Danish history. But like across the world,

1:20:57.479 --> 1:21:01.120
<v Speaker 1>Peter requested a smaller panel, not a jury trial, like

1:21:01.240 --> 1:21:04.080
<v Speaker 1>not a full jury trial. His lawyers applied for just

1:21:04.200 --> 1:21:07.320
<v Speaker 1>two jurors and one judge, which is a measure that

1:21:07.360 --> 1:21:10.960
<v Speaker 1>he's allowed in Denmark to help ensure dura impartiality.

1:21:11.439 --> 1:21:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh right, okay, because it's such a big trial at

1:21:13.800 --> 1:21:14.080
<v Speaker 2>the time.

1:21:14.280 --> 1:21:16.640
<v Speaker 1>But I feel like there's a reason twelve is the

1:21:16.680 --> 1:21:19.760
<v Speaker 1>normal exactly, Yeah, because there's like a big cross section

1:21:19.840 --> 1:21:20.280
<v Speaker 1>of society.

1:21:20.360 --> 1:21:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Two was a bit insane. Yeah, it might look to

1:21:23.680 --> 1:21:25.240
<v Speaker 2>talk to ye and the.

1:21:25.320 --> 1:21:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Judge though, So in a normal Yeah, in a normal

1:21:29.680 --> 1:21:31.640
<v Speaker 1>jury trial, it's only the twelve jurors who get to

1:21:31.720 --> 1:21:34.320
<v Speaker 1>decide a verdict. In this kind of trial that they

1:21:34.360 --> 1:21:37.000
<v Speaker 1>were asking for, it would be the judge and two

1:21:37.120 --> 1:21:38.519
<v Speaker 1>jurors who would decide together.

1:21:38.680 --> 1:21:39.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Sure.

1:21:39.840 --> 1:21:43.799
<v Speaker 1>The defense's goal was simple, convinced the court that Kimmel's

1:21:43.840 --> 1:21:47.200
<v Speaker 1>death was not premeditated, right, So they kind of had

1:21:47.200 --> 1:21:50.800
<v Speaker 1>to come around and go, we found a body chopped up.

1:21:51.360 --> 1:21:54.000
<v Speaker 1>We'relied in the first place, but this was not planned.

1:21:54.240 --> 1:21:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a terrible accident. And it's also insane because

1:21:58.000 --> 1:22:00.439
<v Speaker 2>the terrible accident was like, well, there's no trauma to

1:22:00.520 --> 1:22:02.519
<v Speaker 2>the head, so how was how are you going to

1:22:02.600 --> 1:22:04.519
<v Speaker 2>explain this as an excerent and why did you chop

1:22:04.560 --> 1:22:06.080
<v Speaker 2>her up afterwards, and why were there.

1:22:08.680 --> 1:22:13.599
<v Speaker 1>Fifteen stab wounds? Remember, Yeah, Peter took to the stand

1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:17.519
<v Speaker 1>in his own defense, which, interestingly, now I don't know

1:22:17.640 --> 1:22:18.720
<v Speaker 1>if they're I mean, there would be.

1:22:18.760 --> 1:22:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Stating this is charming and everything, isn't it.

1:22:21.000 --> 1:22:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I don't know the stats about this, but

1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:26.280
<v Speaker 1>in all of the stories you and I have covered

1:22:26.400 --> 1:22:29.040
<v Speaker 1>to date, the only people that have taken the stand

1:22:29.080 --> 1:22:31.560
<v Speaker 1>in their own defense, from my memory, have been the

1:22:31.600 --> 1:22:33.519
<v Speaker 1>ones who have been leading.

1:22:33.800 --> 1:22:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah, and.

1:22:35.680 --> 1:22:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Egotistical and arcissistic and thought that they're smarter and they

1:22:38.200 --> 1:22:39.560
<v Speaker 1>can easily get away with it.

1:22:39.720 --> 1:22:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:22:40.680 --> 1:22:43.360
<v Speaker 1>From the moment he began speaking on the stand, it

1:22:43.479 --> 1:22:46.960
<v Speaker 1>was clear that he loved the spectacle that this was,

1:22:47.560 --> 1:22:50.400
<v Speaker 1>and he loved that the hundreds of reporters filling the

1:22:50.479 --> 1:22:53.240
<v Speaker 1>gallery every day were there to see hear him.

1:22:53.800 --> 1:22:55.640
<v Speaker 2>The reporters still allowed, and even though it was a

1:22:55.760 --> 1:22:56.800
<v Speaker 2>smaller thing that was over.

1:22:57.040 --> 1:22:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, so it's still open court. There's always reporters

1:22:59.760 --> 1:23:04.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot. Up until then, Peter had claimed that Kim

1:23:04.840 --> 1:23:07.400
<v Speaker 1>died when the hatch fell on her head, but now

1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:11.280
<v Speaker 1>standing before the court for the very first time, he

1:23:11.439 --> 1:23:16.479
<v Speaker 1>revealed a third version of events. He explained that while

1:23:16.560 --> 1:23:19.640
<v Speaker 1>the submarine was still on the surface, he stepped out

1:23:19.680 --> 1:23:22.280
<v Speaker 1>on the deck to check something. Then when he closed

1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:25.320
<v Speaker 1>the hatch behind him, but he was still outside of

1:23:25.439 --> 1:23:32.120
<v Speaker 1>the submarine, a malfunction inside the sub released toxic fumes,

1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:37.960
<v Speaker 1>causing Kim to die from carbon monoxide poisoning, Which is like,

1:23:38.680 --> 1:23:42.560
<v Speaker 1>what a comedy of it happened to be outside and

1:23:42.680 --> 1:23:45.479
<v Speaker 1>there were toxic fumes that just let themselves out while

1:23:45.520 --> 1:23:49.760
<v Speaker 1>she was in there by herself. Yeah, when he re

1:23:50.040 --> 1:23:53.200
<v Speaker 1>entered the submarine, he says he found her lifeless on

1:23:53.320 --> 1:23:57.600
<v Speaker 1>the floor. If that was what happened, why wouldn't you

1:23:57.640 --> 1:24:01.840
<v Speaker 1>say that in the first place the things had Why

1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:03.559
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't you say why would you make up the thing

1:24:03.600 --> 1:24:07.800
<v Speaker 1>about the hatch if that's what actually He launched into

1:24:07.920 --> 1:24:12.719
<v Speaker 1>technical explanations about submarine mechanics, clearly trying to make himself

1:24:12.920 --> 1:24:16.040
<v Speaker 1>sound smarter and throw off the judge so much that

1:24:16.120 --> 1:24:18.360
<v Speaker 1>they would have venture that. The judge actually have ended

1:24:18.439 --> 1:24:21.639
<v Speaker 1>cutting him off, telling him to get to the point. Great,

1:24:22.280 --> 1:24:26.040
<v Speaker 1>he's trying to make himself so technical old confuse them.

1:24:26.040 --> 1:24:27.680
<v Speaker 1>They'll be like, oh, I don't really understand it. Will

1:24:27.720 --> 1:24:30.519
<v Speaker 1>have to believe him and the judge's gone, fucking shut up, mate,

1:24:30.840 --> 1:24:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Get to the point. I don't care about your I

1:24:32.880 --> 1:24:34.720
<v Speaker 1>do you budge you whatever you say, Get to the

1:24:34.800 --> 1:24:35.320
<v Speaker 1>fucking point.

1:24:35.439 --> 1:24:39.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I use the term budge. Get to the point.

1:24:42.680 --> 1:24:47.040
<v Speaker 1>When asked about the violent condition of Kim's remains, he

1:24:47.120 --> 1:24:52.599
<v Speaker 1>had no explanation. Eventually, on cross examination, he did admit

1:24:52.680 --> 1:24:57.519
<v Speaker 1>to dismembering her body, offering a chillingly clinical reason for why.

1:24:58.720 --> 1:25:04.040
<v Speaker 1>He said, for batim, this is when you have a

1:25:04.120 --> 1:25:07.920
<v Speaker 1>big problem, you have to divide it into something smaller.

1:25:09.280 --> 1:25:09.960
<v Speaker 2>How awful?

1:25:10.280 --> 1:25:11.719
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that sick?

1:25:12.040 --> 1:25:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it's a click, but and please.

1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Pardon the accidental pun. Here, Piece by piece, the prosecution

1:25:21.240 --> 1:25:23.120
<v Speaker 1>dismantled his story.

1:25:23.520 --> 1:25:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:25:23.840 --> 1:25:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

1:25:25.120 --> 1:25:29.639
<v Speaker 1>A submarine expert from the Danish Navy testified the tests

1:25:29.680 --> 1:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>on the Nautis showed no trace of carbon monoxide. He

1:25:33.880 --> 1:25:36.240
<v Speaker 1>just thinks he's so much smarter than he can say, Well,

1:25:36.240 --> 1:25:37.120
<v Speaker 1>it's my submarine.

1:25:37.240 --> 1:25:37.720
<v Speaker 3>I know how.

1:25:38.040 --> 1:25:39.240
<v Speaker 1>You don't know how submarines work.

1:25:39.479 --> 1:25:39.720
<v Speaker 6>I do.

1:25:39.920 --> 1:25:43.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you this happened. They're obviously going to bring

1:25:43.200 --> 1:25:45.000
<v Speaker 1>in an experts.

1:25:44.479 --> 1:25:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, but they've also shown that there was no malfunction

1:25:47.640 --> 1:25:50.479
<v Speaker 2>at all. So it's like obviously while.

1:25:50.360 --> 1:25:52.639
<v Speaker 1>He came up with the carbon monoxide there because it's

1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:54.880
<v Speaker 1>a gas. So there's no way you could have seen

1:25:55.120 --> 1:25:58.960
<v Speaker 1>that happened. There was gas all in the chamber somehow.

1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:06.240
<v Speaker 1>In his psychiatric assessment, the psychologist ruled that Peter showed

1:26:06.360 --> 1:26:10.400
<v Speaker 1>no remorse for the murder, no empathy, and no concern

1:26:10.479 --> 1:26:12.200
<v Speaker 1>at any point for Kim's family.

1:26:12.720 --> 1:26:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh he's a psychopath, yeah, oh yeah, discussed Yeah.

1:26:16.439 --> 1:26:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Proper psychopath behavior experts described him as a pathological liar

1:26:21.840 --> 1:26:23.640
<v Speaker 1>with narcissistic.

1:26:23.120 --> 1:26:26.839
<v Speaker 2>And sociopathic psychopathic traite pathic traits.

1:26:27.920 --> 1:26:31.439
<v Speaker 1>More than ten interns and volunteers from RML Space Lab

1:26:31.560 --> 1:26:34.000
<v Speaker 1>witnesses testified against Peter.

1:26:34.080 --> 1:26:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:26:34.800 --> 1:26:38.600
<v Speaker 1>So it's like their leader had kind of fallen and

1:26:38.760 --> 1:26:41.120
<v Speaker 1>their eyes opened to everything. They were able to step

1:26:41.160 --> 1:26:43.080
<v Speaker 1>outside and see and they realized everything.

1:26:43.200 --> 1:26:43.439
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

1:26:43.960 --> 1:26:47.639
<v Speaker 1>When it came to his hard drive and the snuff films,

1:26:48.080 --> 1:26:51.479
<v Speaker 1>Peter insisted the violent videos were no more incriminating than

1:26:51.560 --> 1:26:55.720
<v Speaker 1>watching a Hollywood film such as quote kill Bill.

1:26:56.520 --> 1:26:58.759
<v Speaker 2>What, there's no difference. There's no more violence.

1:26:58.760 --> 1:26:59.320
<v Speaker 5>It's no different.

1:26:59.360 --> 1:27:01.240
<v Speaker 1>You watch people You've got to kill Bill. You've seen

1:27:01.280 --> 1:27:02.920
<v Speaker 1>people being killed on camera before.

1:27:03.360 --> 1:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow, he's actually actively searching this, and he's saying this.

1:27:06.280 --> 1:27:09.679
<v Speaker 1>Actively searching it. And they're not Hollywood movies. No, they're

1:27:09.720 --> 1:27:13.960
<v Speaker 1>not fiction films. These are actuble films of someone actually

1:27:14.120 --> 1:27:19.880
<v Speaker 1>being killed. The court disagreed the jury was required to

1:27:20.000 --> 1:27:21.760
<v Speaker 1>review some of the material like.

1:27:21.800 --> 1:27:23.080
<v Speaker 2>That, something they should never have to do.

1:27:24.960 --> 1:27:27.880
<v Speaker 1>One video was so disturbing that they only played the

1:27:27.960 --> 1:27:30.560
<v Speaker 1>audio to the jury, so they didn't even make the

1:27:30.640 --> 1:27:32.800
<v Speaker 1>jury watch it. They just said you can just hear.

1:27:33.360 --> 1:27:34.040
<v Speaker 2>It's horrible.

1:27:35.240 --> 1:27:42.479
<v Speaker 1>Even Peter's wife, who stood by him initially, was excused

1:27:42.520 --> 1:27:45.000
<v Speaker 1>from testifying due to emotional distress.

1:27:45.960 --> 1:27:46.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:27:47.080 --> 1:27:51.840
<v Speaker 1>In his closing statement, Peter said only these words, I'm

1:27:52.040 --> 1:27:55.800
<v Speaker 1>very very sorry for what has happened. M what a

1:27:55.920 --> 1:27:59.519
<v Speaker 1>pig like the wording of that, for what has.

1:27:59.520 --> 1:28:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Happened, Yeah, taking no ownership over anything.

1:28:02.439 --> 1:28:06.120
<v Speaker 1>On April twenty fifth, twenty eighteen, the verdict was delivered.

1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:09.519
<v Speaker 1>The court found Peter Madsen had failed to provide any

1:28:09.600 --> 1:28:13.240
<v Speaker 1>credible explanation for Kim Wall's death. He was found guilty

1:28:13.360 --> 1:28:18.000
<v Speaker 1>on all charges and sentenced to life imprisonment, the harshest

1:28:18.000 --> 1:28:21.679
<v Speaker 1>penalty in Denmark. When the sentence was read out at once,

1:28:21.800 --> 1:28:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Cocky believed to be untouchable Peter Madsen slumped over the

1:28:26.439 --> 1:28:31.080
<v Speaker 1>defense table, eyes closed and head bound. Outside the courthouse,

1:28:31.160 --> 1:28:33.599
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of people had gathered, all waiting for the final

1:28:33.680 --> 1:28:36.400
<v Speaker 1>ruling in one of the most shocking cases Denmark had

1:28:36.400 --> 1:28:39.280
<v Speaker 1>ever seen. You know how there is like once, like

1:28:39.439 --> 1:28:42.400
<v Speaker 1>every so often there's a case big enough that random,

1:28:42.560 --> 1:28:45.799
<v Speaker 1>like huge, big groups of random members of the public

1:28:46.000 --> 1:28:49.519
<v Speaker 1>will gather outside the listening on a transistor radio for

1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:50.480
<v Speaker 1>the announcement.

1:28:50.600 --> 1:28:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this was one of those. You say that, you

1:28:53.360 --> 1:28:55.360
<v Speaker 2>know that, OJ Simptons, that was huge.

1:28:56.960 --> 1:29:01.040
<v Speaker 1>After the verdict was delivered, a court represented stepped forward

1:29:01.120 --> 1:29:04.840
<v Speaker 1>to address the crowd, which I mean that doesn't happen

1:29:04.880 --> 1:29:06.639
<v Speaker 1>in Australia. I don't know if that's normal for Denmark.

1:29:06.800 --> 1:29:08.720
<v Speaker 1>But someone who worked for the court came out to

1:29:08.840 --> 1:29:12.000
<v Speaker 1>like give a statement. Wow, they said Kim Wall was

1:29:12.040 --> 1:29:16.400
<v Speaker 1>an innocent victim. This wasn't the premeditated killing of Kim Wall.

1:29:17.200 --> 1:29:20.200
<v Speaker 1>This was the premeditated killing of the next woman who

1:29:20.240 --> 1:29:24.559
<v Speaker 1>would accompany him alone to sail his submarine. It's enough

1:29:24.760 --> 1:29:30.360
<v Speaker 1>fucking awful, Like you cannot imagine what the intern kate,

1:29:30.960 --> 1:29:34.120
<v Speaker 1>what she must live with hearing even like it's you

1:29:34.160 --> 1:29:37.439
<v Speaker 1>can tell her that's why it's been surprised. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:29:37.439 --> 1:29:40.320
<v Speaker 1>you're right. It's one thing to kind of go, you know,

1:29:40.479 --> 1:29:43.040
<v Speaker 1>she believes that about herself, but other people will go, no,

1:29:43.360 --> 1:29:45.560
<v Speaker 1>it's not you know, it's a survives guilt, it's not

1:29:45.680 --> 1:29:49.479
<v Speaker 1>about you. No, the courts were saying, yes, whoever was

1:29:49.520 --> 1:29:51.200
<v Speaker 1>on that whoever was on that submarine net.

1:29:51.320 --> 1:29:51.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:29:53.200 --> 1:29:57.240
<v Speaker 1>The UC three Nautilus was destroyed, and Peter Madson remains

1:29:57.280 --> 1:30:01.000
<v Speaker 1>in prison surfing a life serving not surfing. I don't

1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:03.200
<v Speaker 1>think he gets to serve, serving a life sentence for

1:30:03.240 --> 1:30:07.639
<v Speaker 1>the murder of Kim Wall. But it doesn't finish there.

1:30:20.439 --> 1:30:24.880
<v Speaker 1>For all the disturbing digital evidence, the search history, the messages,

1:30:25.040 --> 1:30:30.080
<v Speaker 1>the videos, the real smoking gun came from somewhere no

1:30:30.200 --> 1:30:31.040
<v Speaker 1>one expected.

1:30:33.200 --> 1:30:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Can you get the documentary filmmaker.

1:30:35.360 --> 1:30:43.040
<v Speaker 1>Emma Sullivan's documentary On August tenth, twenty seventeen, Emma's cameras

1:30:43.120 --> 1:30:47.840
<v Speaker 1>captured staff discussing the tools hanging in Peter Madson's workshop. Oh,

1:30:48.800 --> 1:30:52.840
<v Speaker 1>in the background, clearly visible was a wooden saw with

1:30:52.920 --> 1:30:57.679
<v Speaker 1>a bright orange handle. The next day, as the search

1:30:58.080 --> 1:31:02.240
<v Speaker 1>for the Nautilus began, the sawce was gone.

1:31:02.960 --> 1:31:09.479
<v Speaker 8>Of course, that is awful, but also fucking awesome in

1:31:09.600 --> 1:31:13.240
<v Speaker 8>terms of the yeah they were doing.

1:31:13.439 --> 1:31:17.280
<v Speaker 1>They were making a documentary about him. They're filming him

1:31:17.320 --> 1:31:20.840
<v Speaker 1>and his staff at his workshop every day. That very

1:31:21.000 --> 1:31:23.760
<v Speaker 1>day they had filmed the workshop and they had been

1:31:23.880 --> 1:31:27.040
<v Speaker 1>discussing the tools hanging up on the wall, and then

1:31:27.080 --> 1:31:30.200
<v Speaker 1>the fucking idiot murderer has gone and taken a saw

1:31:30.280 --> 1:31:33.439
<v Speaker 1>off the wall, taking it out. And the very next

1:31:33.520 --> 1:31:36.760
<v Speaker 1>day they're looking for a body. Wow, that turns up

1:31:36.840 --> 1:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>cut up.

1:31:38.360 --> 1:31:38.639
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:31:39.880 --> 1:31:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Witnesses later saw recalled seeing Peter carrying a large saw

1:31:45.160 --> 1:31:49.280
<v Speaker 1>with an orange handle in the lab. One staff member

1:31:49.360 --> 1:31:53.760
<v Speaker 1>even remembered it sticking out of his backpack on that

1:31:54.040 --> 1:31:57.200
<v Speaker 1>very day of August tenth, and this was part of

1:31:57.240 --> 1:32:03.040
<v Speaker 1>the testimony they gave a try. Then, divers searching Copenhagen

1:32:03.160 --> 1:32:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Harbor found an orange handle saw on the ocean floor,

1:32:08.960 --> 1:32:13.479
<v Speaker 1>lying among Kimmel's belongings and those garbage bags of her

1:32:13.560 --> 1:32:17.800
<v Speaker 1>remains they recovered from Wow, like he's not He hasn't

1:32:17.800 --> 1:32:25.639
<v Speaker 1>even dumped. There was no reason, no reason that saw

1:32:25.760 --> 1:32:29.479
<v Speaker 1>would ever have needed to be on that submarine. In

1:32:29.600 --> 1:32:33.320
<v Speaker 1>its final ruling, the court explicitly stated that the documentary

1:32:33.360 --> 1:32:37.800
<v Speaker 1>footage captioned by Ossie filmmaker Emma Sullivan, who thought she

1:32:37.960 --> 1:32:43.560
<v Speaker 1>was documenting a man's rocket dream, was in fact instrumental

1:32:43.800 --> 1:32:49.280
<v Speaker 1>improving Peter's premeditation of murder. Wow, he carried that saw

1:32:49.640 --> 1:32:52.479
<v Speaker 1>onto the submarine, knowing what he was going for. That

1:32:54.360 --> 1:32:57.240
<v Speaker 1>And just when you thought the story of Peter Madson

1:32:57.280 --> 1:33:00.320
<v Speaker 1>couldn't take any more turns, do you remember but one

1:33:00.360 --> 1:33:01.920
<v Speaker 1>of the things I said in the intro that hasn't

1:33:01.960 --> 1:33:02.519
<v Speaker 1>come up yet.

1:33:02.880 --> 1:33:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, we had a break for lunch.

1:33:07.840 --> 1:33:11.759
<v Speaker 1>On October twentieth, twenty twenty, Peter Madson escaped from prison.

1:33:12.080 --> 1:33:14.120
<v Speaker 2>What oh of course, my god.

1:33:16.360 --> 1:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>With access to the prison wood shop, Peter carved a

1:33:20.439 --> 1:33:25.640
<v Speaker 1>fake gun out of wood, held a prison psychiatrist hostage with.

1:33:25.680 --> 1:33:29.519
<v Speaker 2>A fake wooden gun, and walked out of the main gate.

1:33:31.800 --> 1:33:33.519
<v Speaker 2>He is a bond villain, yees.

1:33:34.680 --> 1:33:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but he didn't make it far, Sammy. Less than

1:33:38.720 --> 1:33:41.600
<v Speaker 1>a mile from prison, police found him hiding in a

1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:46.320
<v Speaker 1>van and like, just like a mile from a mile

1:33:46.400 --> 1:33:50.840
<v Speaker 1>from prison. When officers approached, Peter lifted his shirt to

1:33:50.960 --> 1:33:55.559
<v Speaker 1>reveal what looked like an explosive device strapped around his stomach.

1:33:56.160 --> 1:34:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Officers backed off, surrounding him at a distance as he

1:34:00.280 --> 1:34:04.559
<v Speaker 1>sat in the grass, a bomb disposal robot was deployed.

1:34:04.600 --> 1:34:06.280
<v Speaker 1>You know, you've seen footage of them like that, like

1:34:06.880 --> 1:34:11.200
<v Speaker 1>robots going yeah, to like not disengage.

1:34:11.240 --> 1:34:13.559
<v Speaker 2>What's the word for, like, oh sometimes that Yeah, yeah,

1:34:13.560 --> 1:34:15.439
<v Speaker 2>I think they actually test to see first if it's

1:34:15.520 --> 1:34:16.320
<v Speaker 2>like an actual.

1:34:16.400 --> 1:34:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the word I'm thinking of.

1:34:18.640 --> 1:34:19.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but yeah, I know what you mean.

1:34:20.320 --> 1:34:22.000
<v Speaker 4>It's what's going to annoy me.

1:34:22.120 --> 1:34:24.400
<v Speaker 1>The word for like making a bomb like not happen,

1:34:24.560 --> 1:34:24.920
<v Speaker 1>stop it.

1:34:25.760 --> 1:34:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember what is. Yeah.

1:34:27.120 --> 1:34:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, an hour after this bomb disposal robot had been

1:34:32.640 --> 1:34:35.679
<v Speaker 1>working on it, they discovered that it was all a ruse.

1:34:35.800 --> 1:34:38.880
<v Speaker 1>The bomb was fake and had also been crafted in

1:34:38.960 --> 1:34:43.760
<v Speaker 1>the wood shop. Oh my god, which I mean it's

1:34:43.840 --> 1:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>easier to detay, no, but not the other way. The

1:34:48.000 --> 1:34:52.559
<v Speaker 1>other thing is when it goes off, yes, oh my god, constructs.

1:34:53.320 --> 1:34:57.880
<v Speaker 8>That's crazy with the gun and the gun and the

1:34:57.920 --> 1:34:59.160
<v Speaker 8>fake explosive device.

1:34:59.400 --> 1:35:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it could be easy to say, like,

1:35:02.120 --> 1:35:03.800
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, how embarrassing. How can you not tell

1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:06.640
<v Speaker 1>that that was a wooden bomb? But you, I mean,

1:35:06.680 --> 1:35:09.000
<v Speaker 1>you're going to take every precaution if someone's wearing what

1:35:09.120 --> 1:35:11.160
<v Speaker 1>looks like it could be a bomb. It's better to

1:35:11.240 --> 1:35:12.960
<v Speaker 1>take an hour looking at it and then go, oh, well,

1:35:13.120 --> 1:35:17.439
<v Speaker 1>it's embarrassing. It was wood. Yes, Peter Madsen was taken

1:35:17.520 --> 1:35:20.720
<v Speaker 1>back into custody and twenty one months were added to

1:35:20.800 --> 1:35:23.439
<v Speaker 1>his life sentence. So it must it must be a

1:35:23.520 --> 1:35:26.559
<v Speaker 1>life sentence with a minimum non barolia exactly. But he's

1:35:26.600 --> 1:35:29.320
<v Speaker 1>had more added to the top. I mean, and when

1:35:29.320 --> 1:35:32.920
<v Speaker 1>he's tried to escape, I can only assume he's never

1:35:33.000 --> 1:35:36.840
<v Speaker 1>going to be let out. Yeah, all right, so today

1:35:37.320 --> 1:35:41.799
<v Speaker 1>I will finish. It's just a few more sentences about

1:35:42.240 --> 1:35:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Kim War. I want to shift the focus back to

1:35:46.439 --> 1:35:48.839
<v Speaker 1>the person who is really at the heart of this story,

1:35:49.400 --> 1:35:51.639
<v Speaker 1>not the man who took her life, but the woman

1:35:51.680 --> 1:35:56.799
<v Speaker 1>whose life meant so much more remembering Kim War. Kim's

1:35:56.840 --> 1:35:59.960
<v Speaker 1>parents had always been clear she should not be remembered

1:36:01.000 --> 1:36:05.000
<v Speaker 1>as a victim, but as the extraordinary journalist and person

1:36:05.160 --> 1:36:09.040
<v Speaker 1>she was. Kim was fearless and had a remarkable career

1:36:09.080 --> 1:36:12.800
<v Speaker 1>ahead of her, one that was already taking shape. In

1:36:12.880 --> 1:36:16.040
<v Speaker 1>the wake of her tragic death, her parents created the

1:36:16.160 --> 1:36:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Kim Wall Memorial Fund, a foundation that awards grants to

1:36:20.000 --> 1:36:24.280
<v Speaker 1>female reporters covering stories of cultural significance, the very work

1:36:24.439 --> 1:36:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Kim believed in and loved.

1:36:26.400 --> 1:36:26.679
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1:36:27.400 --> 1:36:30.240
<v Speaker 1>Her parents also published a book about her life called

1:36:30.280 --> 1:36:33.280
<v Speaker 1>A Silenced Voice, which was a tribute to their daughter

1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:36.680
<v Speaker 1>and her work. This is a quote from her mum,

1:36:36.920 --> 1:36:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Ingrid through her fund, Kim will do what children are

1:36:40.320 --> 1:36:42.559
<v Speaker 1>supposed to do, outlive their parents.

1:36:42.680 --> 1:36:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, Well that's so heartbreaking.

1:36:47.120 --> 1:36:50.000
<v Speaker 1>If you would like to explore Kim's reporting, her family

1:36:50.080 --> 1:36:54.680
<v Speaker 1>maintains a digital archive at Remembering kimwall dot com. And

1:36:54.840 --> 1:37:01.720
<v Speaker 1>that is the tragic, fucking wild story of Kim All

1:37:02.320 --> 1:37:04.519
<v Speaker 1>the submarine murder story.

1:37:04.840 --> 1:37:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's so so we're both so crying at the

1:37:06.360 --> 1:37:11.360
<v Speaker 2>inn again, it's so sad. It's so sad, like such

1:37:11.400 --> 1:37:16.599
<v Speaker 2>a young person that sadly got on a submarine.

1:37:16.600 --> 1:37:18.680
<v Speaker 1>I actually think her age doesn't matter. If that was

1:37:18.760 --> 1:37:21.360
<v Speaker 1>a ninety five year old that was an innocent person.

1:37:21.880 --> 1:37:25.200
<v Speaker 1>You got on a submarine to tell somebody's story, Yeah,

1:37:25.400 --> 1:37:27.719
<v Speaker 1>and was brutally murdered for no reason.

1:37:28.000 --> 1:37:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's so heartbreaking. And this monster that was out

1:37:31.920 --> 1:37:35.439
<v Speaker 2>there just waiting for the person that got on like

1:37:35.560 --> 1:37:39.080
<v Speaker 2>that is just awful. And he must have had intent,

1:37:39.680 --> 1:37:42.960
<v Speaker 2>obviously had intent, but for him to go through with that,

1:37:43.240 --> 1:37:46.240
<v Speaker 2>I do wonder what happened in that submarine, Like, yeah,

1:37:46.400 --> 1:37:49.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, so awful to imagine what actually happened in

1:37:49.800 --> 1:37:50.360
<v Speaker 2>that submarine.

1:37:50.920 --> 1:37:53.599
<v Speaker 1>And because that with the films that he'd been watching,

1:37:53.960 --> 1:37:59.320
<v Speaker 1>like it's you know, they often involve like torture, and yeah,

1:37:59.640 --> 1:38:04.439
<v Speaker 1>it's it's a a kink, be that sexual or otherwise.

1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:07.840
<v Speaker 1>It's a kink to take someone's life and watch someone's

1:38:07.880 --> 1:38:11.439
<v Speaker 1>life being taken. Yeah, he's just decided on that day

1:38:11.920 --> 1:38:15.200
<v Speaker 1>whenever the next opportunity was Like he'd messaged the intern saying,

1:38:15.320 --> 1:38:17.200
<v Speaker 1>I want to come out on the submarine with me tomorrow,

1:38:17.360 --> 1:38:21.640
<v Speaker 1>and she'd said yes. But then opportunity came knocking the

1:38:21.760 --> 1:38:23.439
<v Speaker 1>day before, the night before, and.

1:38:23.520 --> 1:38:25.960
<v Speaker 2>He thought he was so untouchable. That's the other thing

1:38:26.000 --> 1:38:27.800
<v Speaker 2>as well, Like I thought he was so untouchable. He

1:38:27.800 --> 1:38:30.640
<v Speaker 2>could get away with this because he's so smart and.

1:38:30.720 --> 1:38:33.439
<v Speaker 1>So much smarter than everyone else.

1:38:33.640 --> 1:38:34.160
<v Speaker 4>I can do this.

1:38:34.280 --> 1:38:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Why do I need to think about it? Why would

1:38:35.800 --> 1:38:37.400
<v Speaker 1>I need to dump the saw in a different place

1:38:37.479 --> 1:38:38.400
<v Speaker 1>to her body parts?

1:38:38.720 --> 1:38:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Not awful?

1:38:39.280 --> 1:38:41.000
<v Speaker 1>What would I need to Why would I need to

1:38:41.120 --> 1:38:44.479
<v Speaker 1>say when I recovered, When I'm pulled ashore by a

1:38:44.560 --> 1:38:47.200
<v Speaker 1>fishing and the media is waiting for me. Why would

1:38:47.200 --> 1:38:49.479
<v Speaker 1>I need to say, oh, you're also the woman that

1:38:49.600 --> 1:38:51.479
<v Speaker 1>was on board with me, something happened to it. Why

1:38:51.479 --> 1:38:52.800
<v Speaker 1>would I need to bring her up? No one cares

1:38:52.800 --> 1:38:54.720
<v Speaker 1>about her. She's a fucking reported No one cares about her.

1:38:55.160 --> 1:38:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Insane like that. Yeah, and also like that, you know

1:38:58.400 --> 1:39:03.320
<v Speaker 2>the filmmaker, Emma, Emma Sullivant. Yeah, incredible, look now that

1:39:03.880 --> 1:39:06.760
<v Speaker 2>the footage and also look up the word for the

1:39:06.760 --> 1:39:07.719
<v Speaker 2>opposite of destinating.

1:39:08.040 --> 1:39:08.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:39:09.439 --> 1:39:12.639
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but like for her as well to actually

1:39:12.840 --> 1:39:17.479
<v Speaker 2>be part of the conviction, Yes, that is exactly that

1:39:17.600 --> 1:39:20.120
<v Speaker 2>she went out and obviously like when they were thinking

1:39:20.160 --> 1:39:23.080
<v Speaker 2>he was this what he wanted to be kind of

1:39:23.120 --> 1:39:27.719
<v Speaker 2>this godlike figure that was just this incredible, eccentric person.

1:39:28.560 --> 1:39:30.519
<v Speaker 2>Then for her to actually be the person that was

1:39:30.520 --> 1:39:33.000
<v Speaker 2>following him and have all of this footage, that's bizarre.

1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Emma Sullivan, I need to say this on YouTube dot com.

1:39:38.240 --> 1:39:40.679
<v Speaker 1>This is it's actually it says here. It's on Netflix.

1:39:40.960 --> 1:39:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, great, I need to watch on It's called.

1:39:42.800 --> 1:39:46.080
<v Speaker 1>The documentary is called Into the Deep, Into the Deep. Okay,

1:39:50.160 --> 1:39:54.760
<v Speaker 1>It's on Netflix. It's a Netflix documentary. So maybe I

1:39:54.800 --> 1:39:55.879
<v Speaker 1>didn't watch it on YouTube.

1:39:55.960 --> 1:39:57.000
<v Speaker 2>You made the whole thing up.

1:39:58.760 --> 1:40:04.680
<v Speaker 1>Happened principal partner for I'm a Different Thing. I was like, Oh,

1:40:04.760 --> 1:40:06.400
<v Speaker 1>I think she's Victorian, but I don't know if that's

1:40:06.400 --> 1:40:11.040
<v Speaker 1>actually real. I mean searching her name and documentary, it's

1:40:11.160 --> 1:40:14.000
<v Speaker 1>only into the deep that I don't know if she's

1:40:14.040 --> 1:40:16.280
<v Speaker 1>done any other documentaries'.

1:40:15.560 --> 1:40:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Find I want to please, yeah, please, if you don't

1:40:18.400 --> 1:40:20.200
<v Speaker 2>tell us if you know, if you.

1:40:20.280 --> 1:40:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Know Emma, or if you know anything about always right, we.

1:40:27.800 --> 1:40:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Especially Emma, Memma, Emma member. Actually if you're listening as well, please.

1:40:31.240 --> 1:40:36.439
<v Speaker 1>Do Emma memo. If you're listening, Yeah, I'm not finding

1:40:38.960 --> 1:40:40.320
<v Speaker 1>I've just gone you know when you go to like

1:40:40.360 --> 1:40:43.000
<v Speaker 1>the second page of the Google search and start going wrong.

1:40:43.920 --> 1:40:46.599
<v Speaker 1>As I was about to say, I'm not finding anything

1:40:46.600 --> 1:40:48.400
<v Speaker 1>else on her. So I think that's only one she's done.

1:40:49.240 --> 1:40:52.519
<v Speaker 1>There is a Facebook like a it's an article, but

1:40:52.640 --> 1:40:56.879
<v Speaker 1>on Facebook that says nineteen year old Emma Sullivan stepped

1:40:56.920 --> 1:41:00.439
<v Speaker 1>on a rusty nail and died on June ten, nineteen nine.

1:41:00.960 --> 1:41:02.920
<v Speaker 1>So I think that might be a different Emison.

1:41:02.760 --> 1:41:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Maybe, but whybe we should investigate that one as well.

1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:07.479
<v Speaker 1>Stepped in a rusty al on her wedding day and died.

1:41:07.800 --> 1:41:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, it's talking about this. Please, I'm going

1:41:11.080 --> 1:41:15.280
<v Speaker 2>to look into ms Sullivan, which the text one or

1:41:15.360 --> 1:41:16.920
<v Speaker 2>the documentary the documentary?

1:41:17.040 --> 1:41:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Look into the technis one.

1:41:18.200 --> 1:41:23.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay, uh yeah, that's a fascinating, fascinating case. Because i'd

1:41:23.160 --> 1:41:25.880
<v Speaker 2>heard bits and pieces of it, I haven't seen a documentary.

1:41:26.400 --> 1:41:29.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised you haven't said, yeah, that's fascinating because he

1:41:29.800 --> 1:41:32.519
<v Speaker 2>just seems like an evil madman. Yes, and just you know,

1:41:32.600 --> 1:41:36.679
<v Speaker 2>a psychopath. But like, that's so fascinating that that happened

1:41:36.720 --> 1:41:39.400
<v Speaker 2>not that long ago, the absolute.

1:41:39.200 --> 1:41:45.799
<v Speaker 1>Like audacity and cockiness of someone to there's a fucking

1:41:46.040 --> 1:41:50.040
<v Speaker 1>documentary being made about him. There are people filming everything

1:41:50.120 --> 1:41:52.760
<v Speaker 1>you do, and you decide that's a good time to

1:41:52.800 --> 1:41:56.479
<v Speaker 1>go on murder. Yeah, I'm not condoning murder outside of

1:41:56.520 --> 1:42:00.559
<v Speaker 1>a documentary being made about yourself either. My advice heartedly

1:42:00.640 --> 1:42:03.080
<v Speaker 1>and you can quote me on that is, you shouldn't

1:42:03.160 --> 1:42:07.200
<v Speaker 1>murder anyone ever, ever, way, not just you Sammy one.

1:42:07.320 --> 1:42:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, ever, yes, correct, Ever, if.

1:42:11.080 --> 1:42:14.560
<v Speaker 1>You are going to which you shouldn't, if you'd like

1:42:14.680 --> 1:42:16.719
<v Speaker 1>to get away with it, which you shouldn't, you should

1:42:17.120 --> 1:42:19.759
<v Speaker 1>you shouldn't be doing it when a documentary this feeling,

1:42:19.920 --> 1:42:20.280
<v Speaker 1>fiel me.

1:42:20.439 --> 1:42:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I've learned so much about this. I mean

1:42:22.400 --> 1:42:26.519
<v Speaker 2>I've learned that submarines can be minimum five meters long. Yes,

1:42:27.560 --> 1:42:33.480
<v Speaker 2>I've learnt that rockets are big. Yes, No, be crowdfunded

1:42:33.520 --> 1:42:41.439
<v Speaker 2>and people will actually send someone into space a homemade rocket.

1:42:41.640 --> 1:42:45.400
<v Speaker 2>That is insane to me. Yes, yeah, if you have enough.

1:42:45.360 --> 1:42:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Money to be or you know what, even if you

1:42:48.400 --> 1:42:52.519
<v Speaker 1>don't have that much money. But you think I'm going

1:42:53.000 --> 1:42:58.080
<v Speaker 1>to donate to this crowdfunding page for this man to

1:42:59.160 --> 1:43:01.760
<v Speaker 1>make a rocket to make him feel like he's got

1:43:01.800 --> 1:43:04.479
<v Speaker 1>a bigger dick by launching into space and having articles

1:43:04.479 --> 1:43:07.560
<v Speaker 1>written about him. If you think about donating money to that,

1:43:08.080 --> 1:43:12.600
<v Speaker 1>please instead donate money to us. You can send a

1:43:12.720 --> 1:43:16.920
<v Speaker 1>direct bank transfer. You can email Sammy just another company

1:43:16.960 --> 1:43:19.160
<v Speaker 1>to com dot you and he will give you our

1:43:19.200 --> 1:43:20.160
<v Speaker 1>bank account details.

1:43:20.160 --> 1:43:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely I will. But also like, tell us why you're

1:43:23.200 --> 1:43:25.920
<v Speaker 2>sending people into space? I want to know that. What's

1:43:25.960 --> 1:43:26.160
<v Speaker 2>that for?

1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:28.719
<v Speaker 1>No, he just wanted to go. I made a rocket

1:43:28.720 --> 1:43:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and I've got into space, same as the fucking Katy

1:43:30.920 --> 1:43:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Perry and Gails. You just made that up. Why do

1:43:37.000 --> 1:43:37.639
<v Speaker 1>you say weathers?

1:43:38.120 --> 1:43:40.440
<v Speaker 2>What's what's Oprah's long terms?

1:43:40.479 --> 1:43:42.200
<v Speaker 1>That one king, isn't it goal keep?

1:43:43.760 --> 1:43:45.880
<v Speaker 2>She was the one that went up in the rocket.

1:43:45.920 --> 1:43:48.000
<v Speaker 2>You didn't look up? What the goddamn well?

1:43:48.360 --> 1:43:51.280
<v Speaker 1>What am I going to google? What is the word

1:43:51.880 --> 1:43:55.439
<v Speaker 1>when the word for a bomb?

1:43:56.439 --> 1:43:56.759
<v Speaker 2>Disarm?

1:43:58.320 --> 1:43:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Disabled? Disarmed?

1:43:59.560 --> 1:44:04.880
<v Speaker 2>I look, we're going to go to the mail bags.

1:44:06.040 --> 1:44:08.559
<v Speaker 2>G love of the podcast because our favorite section when

1:44:08.600 --> 1:44:10.720
<v Speaker 2>we hear from you. If you want to write in,

1:44:10.880 --> 1:44:13.200
<v Speaker 2>you can write in Sammy at just Another Company dot

1:44:13.280 --> 1:44:17.800
<v Speaker 2>com dot au. You can also leave us a voicemail

1:44:18.520 --> 1:44:23.080
<v Speaker 2>defuse diffuse. There you go. The link is below if

1:44:23.120 --> 1:44:25.479
<v Speaker 2>you want to send us a speak pipe as well,

1:44:25.680 --> 1:44:26.080
<v Speaker 2>and you can.

1:44:26.040 --> 1:44:28.519
<v Speaker 1>Follow us on Instagram at not Another Crime Podcast. You

1:44:28.560 --> 1:44:31.080
<v Speaker 1>can follow us on TikTok at Not Another Crime Podcast.

1:44:31.320 --> 1:44:34.880
<v Speaker 1>We are working on becoming TikTok BookTalk Stars, right, and

1:44:35.040 --> 1:44:37.040
<v Speaker 1>by we're working on, I mean we've not done anything

1:44:37.320 --> 1:44:41.000
<v Speaker 1>about books sometimes on this podcast and saying that we'd

1:44:41.200 --> 1:44:43.360
<v Speaker 1>like to be TikTok BookTalk Stars.

1:44:43.120 --> 1:44:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Especially TikTok stars, to get this podcast out there to

1:44:45.960 --> 1:44:48.960
<v Speaker 2>as many people as possible. She love, Are you ready

1:44:49.000 --> 1:44:51.280
<v Speaker 2>for this? We've got some lovely lovely Would you let

1:44:51.360 --> 1:44:55.200
<v Speaker 2>him in? Would you let him in? Pretty please? Diggs

1:44:55.200 --> 1:44:57.320
<v Speaker 2>because his birthday is now seven years old. He has

1:44:57.400 --> 1:45:01.160
<v Speaker 2>become real chatty since he's become seven years old. And

1:45:01.439 --> 1:45:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I love it, Diggs. I think something really beautiful about it,

1:45:05.320 --> 1:45:07.920
<v Speaker 2>especially a rescue dog that suddenly, you know, is a

1:45:07.920 --> 1:45:12.360
<v Speaker 2>little bit cheeky. I know, it's so cute. Voice like Ariel,

1:45:12.720 --> 1:45:15.160
<v Speaker 2>his voice like Ariel. All right, so you're ready for this?

1:45:15.439 --> 1:45:15.679
<v Speaker 4>Gee?

1:45:16.000 --> 1:45:20.719
<v Speaker 2>Love This one comes from Nicole. Hi, Sammy and George

1:45:20.760 --> 1:45:24.280
<v Speaker 2>are just cracked up laughing at a Booking Dot Com ad.

1:45:24.720 --> 1:45:27.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't pay for YouTube, don't be ridiculous. While I

1:45:27.320 --> 1:45:29.800
<v Speaker 2>was watching Sammy Special as a way to wind down

1:45:29.960 --> 1:45:34.120
<v Speaker 2>after going down an Epstein file rabbit hole. God, anyway,

1:45:34.160 --> 1:45:36.880
<v Speaker 2>the muppets are on the beach. Animal flicks a bunch

1:45:36.960 --> 1:45:39.639
<v Speaker 2>of sand on this piggy and she books herself into

1:45:39.720 --> 1:45:40.960
<v Speaker 2>a five star hotel.

1:45:41.040 --> 1:45:41.519
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:43.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you get to choose your ads,

1:45:43.560 --> 1:45:45.960
<v Speaker 2>but that was excellent. After the anecdote from the other

1:45:46.040 --> 1:45:52.120
<v Speaker 2>day about the Ibiza trick, I knew it. Keep up

1:45:52.160 --> 1:45:55.920
<v Speaker 2>the great podcast. It's one of the joys of my week.

1:45:56.240 --> 1:45:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's amazing. That's so funny because even if we

1:45:59.320 --> 1:46:02.439
<v Speaker 1>weren't picks in the ads, she said, that that was

1:46:02.720 --> 1:46:07.439
<v Speaker 1>now during your comedy special, not during our episode. I

1:46:07.720 --> 1:46:10.000
<v Speaker 1>mentioned that that's great for did I tell you? I

1:46:10.120 --> 1:46:13.000
<v Speaker 1>watched your post on Instagram? So I watched your Yeah,

1:46:13.040 --> 1:46:15.760
<v Speaker 1>but I watched your special night at home with a

1:46:15.800 --> 1:46:17.200
<v Speaker 1>glass of wine and with pords.

1:46:17.600 --> 1:46:20.320
<v Speaker 2>How Now I loved we loved ports laughing.

1:46:20.479 --> 1:46:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, was laughing. If you guys don't know what we're

1:46:23.320 --> 1:46:24.960
<v Speaker 1>talking about, or even if you do, I'm still gonna

1:46:24.960 --> 1:46:28.759
<v Speaker 1>remind you. This is Sammy's one hour stand up comedy special,

1:46:28.840 --> 1:46:31.360
<v Speaker 1>but it's available on YouTube called Why the Long Face.

1:46:31.479 --> 1:46:32.679
<v Speaker 1>It's brilliant work.

1:46:32.840 --> 1:46:34.960
<v Speaker 2>God, thank you so much, and I will say as well.

1:46:35.000 --> 1:46:37.120
<v Speaker 2>So we got a real funny call in one of

1:46:37.160 --> 1:46:39.640
<v Speaker 2>the podcasts from Meg Jaeger the other week, and it

1:46:39.800 --> 1:46:42.360
<v Speaker 2>was talking about the Yeah, talking about the Epstein files

1:46:42.560 --> 1:46:44.760
<v Speaker 2>and a lady message on Instagram or to say this

1:46:44.800 --> 1:46:46.960
<v Speaker 2>real quickly. Lady mentioned Instagram and said you do not

1:46:47.120 --> 1:46:50.080
<v Speaker 2>joke about this, blah blah blah. And I wanted to

1:46:50.120 --> 1:46:52.160
<v Speaker 2>write back, but I didn't. I save myself from running back.

1:46:52.360 --> 1:46:54.679
<v Speaker 2>But I was like, the joke wasn't about the Epstein

1:46:54.720 --> 1:46:57.560
<v Speaker 2>files at all. It was a funny, funny joke, and

1:46:57.680 --> 1:47:00.600
<v Speaker 2>you have to have context, and you also have to

1:47:01.040 --> 1:47:04.360
<v Speaker 2>know that when someone is joking about something like that,

1:47:04.439 --> 1:47:06.360
<v Speaker 2>they're not talking about the victims and not talking about The.

1:47:07.960 --> 1:47:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Joke was that she had called in the middle of

1:47:10.720 --> 1:47:12.559
<v Speaker 1>the podcast and you said, do you need to talk

1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:15.640
<v Speaker 1>me about it? Is it urgent or about later? And

1:47:15.840 --> 1:47:19.439
<v Speaker 1>she joked that your name had been mentioned in Epstein.

1:47:20.120 --> 1:47:22.160
<v Speaker 2>It's not to do with the victims or anything, so

1:47:22.360 --> 1:47:23.920
<v Speaker 2>it's not And I didn't write back to it. I

1:47:24.000 --> 1:47:26.160
<v Speaker 2>was just like, whatever, I'll talk about it now. This

1:47:26.320 --> 1:47:28.760
<v Speaker 2>comes on Instagram. Hey guys, love listening to you and

1:47:28.920 --> 1:47:31.439
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed the pod, but I think it stopped short of

1:47:31.560 --> 1:47:34.479
<v Speaker 2>engaging with the most serious critiques of the case. This

1:47:34.560 --> 1:47:35.400
<v Speaker 2>is about Lucy let be.

1:47:35.560 --> 1:47:38.120
<v Speaker 1>I you know what before you said that, I was

1:47:38.160 --> 1:47:39.920
<v Speaker 1>going to say, is this about the loose yes one.

1:47:40.160 --> 1:47:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Much of the prosecution's case rests on Shoe Lee's work

1:47:43.280 --> 1:47:48.519
<v Speaker 2>in embolism in neonates, but that had been misinterpreted by

1:47:48.600 --> 1:47:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Juwey lewis something Lee himself had made clear. Lee also

1:47:53.080 --> 1:47:56.280
<v Speaker 2>has over four hundred peer reviewed works in his field,

1:47:56.600 --> 1:48:00.880
<v Speaker 2>and the panel of fourteen international senior neo is quite

1:48:00.920 --> 1:48:03.880
<v Speaker 2>simply the best you could find anywhere. In the world.

1:48:04.360 --> 1:48:09.120
<v Speaker 2>Their methodology was unusually rigorous. Experts were paired, worked independently

1:48:09.200 --> 1:48:11.639
<v Speaker 2>on some cases and were required to reach the same

1:48:11.920 --> 1:48:17.000
<v Speaker 2>conclusions without collaboration. They consistently identified natural causes and systematic

1:48:17.200 --> 1:48:22.640
<v Speaker 2>care failures rather than deliberate harm. These clinicians volunteered their

1:48:22.720 --> 1:48:26.760
<v Speaker 2>time and would have zero incentive to risk their professional credibility.

1:48:27.080 --> 1:48:29.240
<v Speaker 2>Now I find that really interesting because we've also got

1:48:29.280 --> 1:48:31.880
<v Speaker 2>one from Courtney who says, high legends. I've just finished

1:48:31.880 --> 1:48:35.320
<v Speaker 2>with Lucy, let be doco. Now, this podcast came out

1:48:35.360 --> 1:48:39.880
<v Speaker 2>before the Lucier Code. Yeah, let be documentary. Honestly, I

1:48:39.960 --> 1:48:41.880
<v Speaker 2>listened to this trial. I listened to the trill in

1:48:41.960 --> 1:48:45.760
<v Speaker 2>real time, and I was confused then and still confused now.

1:48:46.360 --> 1:48:49.280
<v Speaker 2>There is so much focus on her behavior and her reactions,

1:48:49.360 --> 1:48:52.880
<v Speaker 2>like Lindy and even like Amanda Knox, Thendi Chamberlain. I

1:48:52.960 --> 1:48:55.280
<v Speaker 2>don't know if anybody else thinks this, but I do

1:48:55.439 --> 1:48:58.479
<v Speaker 2>think her behavior is that of someone who potentially has

1:48:58.680 --> 1:49:04.439
<v Speaker 2>ASD and just genuinely comes across emotionless. In my opinion,

1:49:04.640 --> 1:49:08.720
<v Speaker 2>also explains her record keeping. I know the extreme understaffing

1:49:08.760 --> 1:49:11.560
<v Speaker 2>of the hospitals discussed in trial, so it's likely she

1:49:11.800 --> 1:49:14.800
<v Speaker 2>genuinely forgot she had records on her and just wanted

1:49:14.840 --> 1:49:17.400
<v Speaker 2>to go home after a twelve to fourteen hour day.

1:49:17.880 --> 1:49:19.559
<v Speaker 1>Wasn't there, That's the only thing I'm gonna say. Yeah,

1:49:19.560 --> 1:49:20.800
<v Speaker 1>but there was hundreds, weren't they.

1:49:21.080 --> 1:49:22.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how many there were, but there were

1:49:22.720 --> 1:49:23.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot under her bed.

1:49:23.880 --> 1:49:24.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:49:24.080 --> 1:49:29.400
<v Speaker 2>The notes presented has similarities to Catherine Fohlbig, where excerpts

1:49:29.520 --> 1:49:32.920
<v Speaker 2>were presented but not the entries as a whole. The

1:49:33.080 --> 1:49:35.960
<v Speaker 2>only real evidence ever presented was that she was on

1:49:36.720 --> 1:49:40.519
<v Speaker 2>shift every time, but as we know from other cases,

1:49:40.960 --> 1:49:43.080
<v Speaker 2>just because someone was there doesn't mean they did it.

1:49:43.240 --> 1:49:46.759
<v Speaker 2>Would love your thoughts now. I have been really interested

1:49:46.800 --> 1:49:51.400
<v Speaker 2>by this because it is such a difficult case. Like

1:49:51.520 --> 1:49:54.000
<v Speaker 2>it is so difficult because there are, of course two

1:49:54.080 --> 1:49:56.800
<v Speaker 2>sides of every story. We don't know it looks like,

1:49:57.000 --> 1:49:59.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, there has been evidence where one of the

1:49:59.720 --> 1:50:01.400
<v Speaker 2>doctors as have said this, One of the doctors has

1:50:01.400 --> 1:50:03.000
<v Speaker 2>said this, one of the doctors has said this, Like,

1:50:03.400 --> 1:50:05.640
<v Speaker 2>it is so hard. And I think a lot of

1:50:05.680 --> 1:50:11.759
<v Speaker 2>the time we react emotionally to things because babies. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1:50:11.800 --> 1:50:14.680
<v Speaker 1>And also I think we were extra careful with that

1:50:14.760 --> 1:50:17.639
<v Speaker 1>one because while it is not still before the court.

1:50:17.760 --> 1:50:20.680
<v Speaker 1>She's been found guilty and convicted. The fact that this

1:50:21.280 --> 1:50:24.840
<v Speaker 1>panel of independent experts has come forward, yes, kind of

1:50:25.000 --> 1:50:27.840
<v Speaker 1>asking for it to be re examined. We were just

1:50:27.960 --> 1:50:30.240
<v Speaker 1>we've just been very careful about that because there is

1:50:31.160 --> 1:50:34.280
<v Speaker 1>a possibility that it may end up back before the

1:50:34.360 --> 1:50:37.280
<v Speaker 1>court in some way. I also personally found it really

1:50:37.320 --> 1:50:40.759
<v Speaker 1>difficult to give much commentary about because we're not parents,

1:50:40.960 --> 1:50:44.000
<v Speaker 1>no exactly, and I didn't feel comfortable making too much

1:50:44.040 --> 1:50:47.280
<v Speaker 1>commentary about it because I can't possibly understand what that

1:50:47.400 --> 1:50:52.799
<v Speaker 1>must feel like the parents. So I apologize if anyone

1:50:52.920 --> 1:50:55.080
<v Speaker 1>thought that that, you know, the episode, we weren't kind

1:50:55.080 --> 1:50:57.280
<v Speaker 1>of going into depth as much as we usually did.

1:50:57.880 --> 1:51:01.439
<v Speaker 1>And it's also deep medical stuff, so you know, yeah,

1:51:01.920 --> 1:51:04.080
<v Speaker 1>I do apologize if anyone thinks we didn't kind of

1:51:04.479 --> 1:51:08.360
<v Speaker 1>do our usual maybe like you know, emotional depth of

1:51:08.400 --> 1:51:11.200
<v Speaker 1>it or or look into it. But we really wanted

1:51:11.240 --> 1:51:12.960
<v Speaker 1>to cover the story because it's one that was so

1:51:13.120 --> 1:51:13.760
<v Speaker 1>fascinated by.

1:51:13.840 --> 1:51:15.639
<v Speaker 2>I cover both sides at the end by talking about

1:51:15.680 --> 1:51:18.200
<v Speaker 2>the panel as well. The international panel. Yeah, like that

1:51:18.600 --> 1:51:21.559
<v Speaker 2>was a big part of the story. Yeah, that's also

1:51:21.640 --> 1:51:23.519
<v Speaker 2>in the documentary, like that, you know, it is a

1:51:23.600 --> 1:51:26.519
<v Speaker 2>fact that that was that happened. But I think people

1:51:26.680 --> 1:51:31.439
<v Speaker 2>are very skeptical of doctor Juey Lewis and their mode

1:51:31.520 --> 1:51:34.120
<v Speaker 2>is why he only chose seventeen cases? Why did he

1:51:34.200 --> 1:51:36.439
<v Speaker 2>choose those seventeen cases when there are a lot more.

1:51:36.640 --> 1:51:39.080
<v Speaker 2>There is so much to this case and it will

1:51:39.240 --> 1:51:43.800
<v Speaker 2>become more I think prevalent with if there is a

1:51:43.880 --> 1:51:46.280
<v Speaker 2>retrial something who knows, who knows what's gonna happen. But

1:51:46.800 --> 1:51:48.960
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, I think it is a really complicated case

1:51:49.000 --> 1:51:51.639
<v Speaker 2>and I understand people have very strong feelings about.

1:51:52.400 --> 1:51:54.479
<v Speaker 1>One of those cases that a lot of people have

1:51:54.560 --> 1:51:57.639
<v Speaker 1>become really like kind of obsessed with it, like really

1:51:57.720 --> 1:52:00.360
<v Speaker 1>followed very closely, and will be the first to say

1:52:00.439 --> 1:52:02.679
<v Speaker 1>we weren't. We're not to those people, we haven't followed

1:52:02.720 --> 1:52:06.480
<v Speaker 1>it really really colostly. You investigated that for our episode.

1:52:06.200 --> 1:52:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Before the docco came out, so I'm really interested and also,

1:52:09.200 --> 1:52:11.640
<v Speaker 2>like I was, you know, kind of shocked when the

1:52:11.720 --> 1:52:15.240
<v Speaker 2>documentary came out that someone actually messaged our Instagram and said,

1:52:15.360 --> 1:52:17.840
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, I couldn't believe that. My husband was

1:52:17.880 --> 1:52:20.280
<v Speaker 2>like maybe she's innocent, like you know, and they were

1:52:20.439 --> 1:52:22.639
<v Speaker 2>kind of had an argument about it, and I was like, great,

1:52:22.680 --> 1:52:25.640
<v Speaker 2>this podcast is causing arguments, but.

1:52:25.840 --> 1:52:32.120
<v Speaker 1>All get divorced. Everyone's doing it. It's very chip for

1:52:32.240 --> 1:52:33.120
<v Speaker 1>the twenty twenty.

1:52:33.280 --> 1:52:36.400
<v Speaker 2>We were just thinking, look, that is really interesting, but

1:52:36.720 --> 1:52:39.880
<v Speaker 2>we thought it was really a good idea to raise

1:52:40.080 --> 1:52:42.000
<v Speaker 2>the panel at the end as part of the story,

1:52:42.120 --> 1:52:44.560
<v Speaker 2>but not going into whether or not we think what

1:52:44.760 --> 1:52:46.439
<v Speaker 2>Juey lewis is this or Jewey louis and.

1:52:46.439 --> 1:52:47.639
<v Speaker 1>We don't know enough about the story.

1:52:47.720 --> 1:52:47.840
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1:52:48.160 --> 1:52:49.960
<v Speaker 1>That's what this podcast is as well. We're not doing

1:52:50.000 --> 1:52:52.680
<v Speaker 1>a big I'm sure there are podcasts about Lucy let me.

1:52:52.720 --> 1:52:55.559
<v Speaker 1>There are multi episodes and they go into thoughts and beliefs.

1:52:55.920 --> 1:52:58.439
<v Speaker 1>We were giving you the fact as we know them.

1:52:58.560 --> 1:53:01.160
<v Speaker 1>That's really must have an old bit of Jans on

1:53:01.280 --> 1:53:04.200
<v Speaker 1>this side with a chat up the top about our week.

1:53:04.520 --> 1:53:09.120
<v Speaker 2>Correct, so sue me, don't see me, don't plays This

1:53:09.240 --> 1:53:10.960
<v Speaker 2>comes from Hannah. You ready for this?

1:53:12.880 --> 1:53:15.519
<v Speaker 5>I see me and Georgia. This is us listener, Hannah.

1:53:16.720 --> 1:53:18.920
<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna try to keep this short and sweet because

1:53:18.960 --> 1:53:20.040
<v Speaker 5>I can yapp.

1:53:19.920 --> 1:53:22.599
<v Speaker 2>With the best of them, and want to make me want.

1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:24.560
<v Speaker 5>To yap at you because it makes me feel like

1:53:24.560 --> 1:53:27.320
<v Speaker 5>I'm sitting down with best friends. Your podcast does, and

1:53:27.520 --> 1:53:29.000
<v Speaker 5>so I love it. I just want to say it's

1:53:29.080 --> 1:53:32.840
<v Speaker 5>quickly become one of my favorite podcasts, so.

1:53:32.960 --> 1:53:35.280
<v Speaker 9>Keep up the good work. And then I have three

1:53:35.320 --> 1:53:38.280
<v Speaker 9>little things. One I know you all mentioned becoming book

1:53:38.400 --> 1:53:38.960
<v Speaker 9>talk stock.

1:53:39.080 --> 1:53:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Take your book of staff.

1:53:40.160 --> 1:53:42.639
<v Speaker 5>You really want to be in with the book talk read.

1:53:42.760 --> 1:53:44.160
<v Speaker 5>Fourth wing it's Roman.

1:53:46.040 --> 1:53:46.920
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing.

1:53:49.600 --> 1:53:54.000
<v Speaker 9>When people don't know traffic laws, Like if we pull

1:53:54.080 --> 1:53:56.240
<v Speaker 9>up to a stop sign and they're in front of me,

1:53:56.680 --> 1:53:58.519
<v Speaker 9>or they got there first, and they just look at me.

1:53:58.640 --> 1:54:00.680
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, why are you looking at me? Go and

1:54:00.760 --> 1:54:01.719
<v Speaker 5>get on with our lives.

1:54:02.800 --> 1:54:06.280
<v Speaker 2>The order so we can carry yes, just.

1:54:06.320 --> 1:54:09.640
<v Speaker 9>Drives me crazy. And then third, I just wanted to

1:54:09.800 --> 1:54:13.280
<v Speaker 9>say that Georgia I love. I've noticed in episodes you

1:54:13.439 --> 1:54:16.800
<v Speaker 9>always like stop and google stuff, and I'm absolutely that

1:54:17.000 --> 1:54:19.679
<v Speaker 9>friend in my friend group all right to stop and google.

1:54:20.040 --> 1:54:21.679
<v Speaker 1>Don't like it unknown.

1:54:21.840 --> 1:54:24.639
<v Speaker 5>I'm always like, we're googling it. Let's get the answer.

1:54:25.680 --> 1:54:29.920
<v Speaker 5>Conversations support stopping the podcast for you for Google.

1:54:30.040 --> 1:54:33.040
<v Speaker 1>You'll like these wanted to chat with you.

1:54:33.760 --> 1:54:37.040
<v Speaker 9>Have a great day, Keep carrying on with a good podcast,

1:54:37.320 --> 1:54:40.560
<v Speaker 9>Stay horrendous, stayd.

1:54:40.640 --> 1:54:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Can I say Hannah sent this that is one hundred

1:54:43.800 --> 1:54:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and two speak pops number one. Yeah, amazing doing this, Hannah,

1:54:50.480 --> 1:54:50.920
<v Speaker 2>you did it.

1:54:51.160 --> 1:54:57.280
<v Speaker 1>You did it, Lucky number one hundred and you win friendship.

1:54:58.920 --> 1:55:00.320
<v Speaker 2>You want to get it, Yeah, find it.

1:55:00.400 --> 1:55:03.000
<v Speaker 1>You if you find it, to buy it yourself by

1:55:03.080 --> 1:55:07.680
<v Speaker 1>it and then thank us. I like get so excited

1:55:08.000 --> 1:55:12.880
<v Speaker 1>when people tell us they're listening from oversizing it's so cool.

1:55:13.000 --> 1:55:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, maybe I should just skip ahead a tiny bit

1:55:16.720 --> 1:55:19.600
<v Speaker 2>in our usual mail bag because we have someone who

1:55:19.840 --> 1:55:22.360
<v Speaker 2>is an overseas listener, and you and I I haven't

1:55:22.360 --> 1:55:24.120
<v Speaker 2>listened to this. I don't usually try and listen to

1:55:24.160 --> 1:55:26.120
<v Speaker 2>them unless it's one that I'm like, oh, I'm not

1:55:26.160 --> 1:55:28.560
<v Speaker 2>gonna I'm not gonna do that one. But but we

1:55:28.760 --> 1:55:31.720
<v Speaker 2>have our great friend who's an overseas listener.

1:55:32.040 --> 1:55:38.080
<v Speaker 10>Hey, guys, what is bored? I am just a responding

1:55:38.720 --> 1:55:48.080
<v Speaker 10>to the James Free In my opinion, the only truth

1:55:48.360 --> 1:55:52.840
<v Speaker 10>that are creative, especially in a narrative format that's beholden too,

1:55:53.440 --> 1:55:54.680
<v Speaker 10>is the emotional truth.

1:55:56.000 --> 1:55:57.080
<v Speaker 5>Really, I don't really.

1:55:57.000 --> 1:56:01.280
<v Speaker 10>Think he did anything wrong. Interesting another point I wanted

1:56:01.320 --> 1:56:03.640
<v Speaker 10>to make, because you brought up separating the art from

1:56:03.680 --> 1:56:10.600
<v Speaker 10>the artist. I think that's emotionally dishonest to even attempt

1:56:10.680 --> 1:56:16.000
<v Speaker 10>to do that. Because a lot of these guys tell

1:56:16.080 --> 1:56:21.960
<v Speaker 10>on themselves in their work. I mean, Lucy Ka Woody Allen,

1:56:22.680 --> 1:56:25.200
<v Speaker 10>they both did a lot of telling on themselves before

1:56:25.200 --> 1:56:27.960
<v Speaker 10>they got found out, and I think it gives you

1:56:28.360 --> 1:56:34.680
<v Speaker 10>a more well rounded view of the human condition to

1:56:34.840 --> 1:56:40.520
<v Speaker 10>acknowledge that and go into experience in the art. It's

1:56:40.680 --> 1:56:45.880
<v Speaker 10>part of them being fucked up awful people. But again,

1:56:46.000 --> 1:56:49.560
<v Speaker 10>thank you for the podcast, Thank you for tolerating my buffoonery.

1:56:50.920 --> 1:56:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Y'all, be good, be safe, y'all, y'all, be good, be

1:56:54.440 --> 1:56:57.360
<v Speaker 1>safe is the best. But we love you. I think,

1:56:57.480 --> 1:57:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I really, I really like that. That's a really good

1:57:00.000 --> 1:57:03.080
<v Speaker 1>good point today is I love you know these kind

1:57:03.120 --> 1:57:03.640
<v Speaker 1>of discussions.

1:57:04.240 --> 1:57:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I think so too. It's like it doesn't and we're

1:57:06.280 --> 1:57:09.440
<v Speaker 2>always open to people saying actually I don't agree with that,

1:57:09.840 --> 1:57:13.360
<v Speaker 2>Like it is really interesting. Also, the message we got

1:57:13.360 --> 1:57:16.120
<v Speaker 2>on Instagram before that, I didn't see it from anonymous

1:57:16.120 --> 1:57:19.280
<v Speaker 2>because they had a really funny Instagram name. It was

1:57:19.440 --> 1:57:21.920
<v Speaker 2>like this is not it, but it was like chicken

1:57:22.000 --> 1:57:24.200
<v Speaker 2>salt or something like that. I'm not going to say

1:57:24.200 --> 1:57:26.360
<v Speaker 2>this one came from chicken Salt. So if you do

1:57:26.520 --> 1:57:28.360
<v Speaker 2>leave an Instagram a message, please do leave your full

1:57:28.440 --> 1:57:32.640
<v Speaker 2>name because otherwise doing you but Yeah, I think that's

1:57:32.720 --> 1:57:36.760
<v Speaker 2>really interesting. And also that discussion, I think is something

1:57:36.760 --> 1:57:38.600
<v Speaker 2>that I really loved doing on this podcast. Is the

1:57:38.640 --> 1:57:39.880
<v Speaker 2>first time we kind of did it. It's had a

1:57:40.240 --> 1:57:43.800
<v Speaker 2>full discussion. Just do the facts and then have a

1:57:43.800 --> 1:57:46.040
<v Speaker 2>proper discussion about it, because you know, James Fray is

1:57:46.120 --> 1:57:49.840
<v Speaker 2>someone that I find really interesting. Look, I don't really

1:57:49.920 --> 1:57:52.040
<v Speaker 2>know a whole lot about James Fray apart from what

1:57:52.200 --> 1:57:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I listened to about that, but separating the art from

1:57:56.960 --> 1:57:59.360
<v Speaker 2>the artist can be a really interesting topic.

1:58:00.280 --> 1:58:03.880
<v Speaker 1>To say that. It's such a It's a completely good

1:58:03.920 --> 1:58:07.520
<v Speaker 1>and valid point, like how much can you really because

1:58:07.520 --> 1:58:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the art has come from the artist exactly. Yeah.

1:58:10.880 --> 1:58:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I love getting Spotify comments as well. So I've got

1:58:14.200 --> 1:58:17.840
<v Speaker 2>from Orville. This is it says, good morning, Georgia and

1:58:17.960 --> 1:58:22.240
<v Speaker 2>Sammy writing from my studio on a drink morning in Scotland.

1:58:22.280 --> 1:58:27.320
<v Speaker 2>I hope Scotland. As a multimedia artist working through the night,

1:58:27.680 --> 1:58:30.440
<v Speaker 2>having you in my ears is like my own audible

1:58:30.520 --> 1:58:34.240
<v Speaker 2>soap opera. I wasn't a true crime fan until I've

1:58:34.280 --> 1:58:38.040
<v Speaker 2>found your show via the Claremont Murders. Obsessed with Derek

1:58:38.120 --> 1:58:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Thompson brackets. Now you're a constant companion. You should look

1:58:42.840 --> 1:58:47.839
<v Speaker 2>into the Robbie Macintosh Murder from Dundee No crocs in brackets.

1:58:48.600 --> 1:58:53.080
<v Speaker 2>His story is featured on the show Signs of a Psychopath.

1:58:53.760 --> 1:58:56.040
<v Speaker 2>I love that, and also I really I want to

1:58:56.080 --> 1:58:59.760
<v Speaker 2>say Drake right, I feel like it's could you send

1:58:59.840 --> 1:59:01.760
<v Speaker 2>us a can you send us to a speak punk?

1:59:01.760 --> 1:59:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Because I'd love to hear Yeah. I love it.

1:59:04.120 --> 1:59:04.839
<v Speaker 1>Oh my God.

1:59:06.280 --> 1:59:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Is the best. And also the Clemont Kells is a

1:59:08.320 --> 1:59:11.720
<v Speaker 2>really interesting Clemont Killer is a really interesting story.

1:59:11.800 --> 1:59:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Love to that one.

1:59:12.840 --> 1:59:13.520
<v Speaker 2>This comes from.

1:59:13.440 --> 1:59:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Victoria or the person?

1:59:16.120 --> 1:59:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Is that the person? You wondered what compelled Dr Shue

1:59:19.320 --> 1:59:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Lee to come out and contradict.

1:59:20.880 --> 1:59:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Dewey Lewis and Lucy let Be story.

1:59:23.320 --> 1:59:26.640
<v Speaker 2>Dr Evans used doctor Lee's research in his expert report.

1:59:27.560 --> 1:59:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Lee read doctor Evans report and was dismayed at

1:59:30.800 --> 1:59:34.480
<v Speaker 2>how his work had been misinterpreted. He's worried his research

1:59:34.520 --> 1:59:37.560
<v Speaker 2>has been wrongly used to convict let Be. I think

1:59:37.600 --> 1:59:39.800
<v Speaker 2>it's an important note that doctor Lee is the original

1:59:39.880 --> 1:59:43.560
<v Speaker 2>writer Evans relied on. Doctor Lee is much more eminent

1:59:43.800 --> 1:59:46.400
<v Speaker 2>than Dr Evans. And we've got this one that comes

1:59:46.520 --> 1:59:49.360
<v Speaker 2>from Dean. I love this. I think it's different. If

1:59:49.400 --> 1:59:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it's a complete fabrication. This is going back to the

1:59:52.000 --> 1:59:54.760
<v Speaker 2>James Fray episode. Sorry, I think it's different if it's

1:59:54.760 --> 1:59:59.480
<v Speaker 2>a complete fabrication versus certain events not being completely accurate.

2:00:00.200 --> 2:00:03.960
<v Speaker 2>I think if it's completely fabricated, it should be marketed

2:00:04.080 --> 2:00:07.520
<v Speaker 2>as a work of fiction. You were right about memories

2:00:07.560 --> 2:00:11.120
<v Speaker 2>being fallible, though. I often read a memoir and wonder,

2:00:11.480 --> 2:00:14.040
<v Speaker 2>did that conversation you had with your mom fifty years

2:00:14.040 --> 2:00:18.160
<v Speaker 2>ago really go like that? I also think embellishments are

2:00:18.240 --> 2:00:22.360
<v Speaker 2>often added to private out to provide context in situations

2:00:22.400 --> 2:00:24.800
<v Speaker 2>as well, and I think that's absolutely correct.

2:00:25.000 --> 2:00:28.480
<v Speaker 1>You have remember exactly the conversation you had in the

2:00:28.600 --> 2:00:32.000
<v Speaker 1>exact terms with someone even one year ago, so then

2:00:32.080 --> 2:00:34.120
<v Speaker 1>that could be said, well, that's not factual. It didn't

2:00:34.120 --> 2:00:34.640
<v Speaker 1>happen like that.

2:00:34.960 --> 2:00:35.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

2:00:35.400 --> 2:00:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's so many different sides of that. Look, we're

2:00:38.160 --> 2:00:39.880
<v Speaker 2>going to have one more speak pipe today.

2:00:40.080 --> 2:00:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Do you I think this is going to be the

2:00:41.360 --> 2:00:42.560
<v Speaker 1>longest episode of all time, isn't it?

2:00:42.600 --> 2:00:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so. No, no, no, I don't think

2:00:44.440 --> 2:00:45.880
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be the longest episode we've done, but

2:00:45.880 --> 2:00:48.720
<v Speaker 2>I think it will be up there. Oh, we've about

2:00:48.720 --> 2:00:49.960
<v Speaker 2>an hour and fifty five at the moment.

2:00:50.040 --> 2:00:53.080
<v Speaker 1>What about if I sang the whole score of Book

2:00:53.120 --> 2:00:54.280
<v Speaker 1>of Mormon, I would like that.

2:00:54.760 --> 2:00:57.480
<v Speaker 2>But can we just go to a lovely voicemail because

2:00:57.480 --> 2:00:58.880
<v Speaker 2>I think you're really going to like this one as

2:00:58.880 --> 2:01:03.800
<v Speaker 2>well as we always love voicemails. I just love this

2:01:03.920 --> 2:01:05.920
<v Speaker 2>one so much, and I think you are going to to.

2:01:08.240 --> 2:01:11.040
<v Speaker 5>Hi, guys, this is Bubba.

2:01:11.320 --> 2:01:15.160
<v Speaker 3>I left you guys a message by Instagram a couple

2:01:15.200 --> 2:01:19.520
<v Speaker 3>of weeks ago. I stumbled across your podcast and was

2:01:19.800 --> 2:01:25.680
<v Speaker 3>just so pleasantly just surprised. It was just so funny

2:01:25.960 --> 2:01:27.800
<v Speaker 3>and so horrific.

2:01:27.560 --> 2:01:30.720
<v Speaker 2>And just love it, just love it.

2:01:31.360 --> 2:01:32.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm real big.

2:01:33.880 --> 2:01:39.920
<v Speaker 3>Crime alcoholic. I guess you to pologize and crime podcasts

2:01:40.200 --> 2:01:42.160
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't matter how horrific they are.

2:01:42.320 --> 2:01:42.680
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:43.320
<v Speaker 6>It's just.

2:01:44.840 --> 2:01:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

2:01:45.720 --> 2:01:48.760
<v Speaker 3>It's just something that I like listening to. It just

2:01:49.360 --> 2:01:54.960
<v Speaker 3>intrigues me how people are in the world. But anyway,

2:01:55.240 --> 2:01:59.480
<v Speaker 3>just keep up the great work. I'm still binge listening

2:02:01.440 --> 2:02:03.920
<v Speaker 3>to catch up, but I am listening to you to

2:02:04.120 --> 2:02:06.240
<v Speaker 3>your weekly shows.

2:02:06.440 --> 2:02:08.880
<v Speaker 4>So I just you guys make me laugh.

2:02:08.960 --> 2:02:10.080
<v Speaker 1>So it's just so funny.

2:02:10.800 --> 2:02:16.160
<v Speaker 3>I'm a jen Xa as well, so I am a grandma.

2:02:16.320 --> 2:02:21.560
<v Speaker 3>And that's why that that's why I'm called Bubba Plish

2:02:22.400 --> 2:02:25.120
<v Speaker 3>and Georgia. I have a daughter called Georgia.

2:02:25.560 --> 2:02:26.560
<v Speaker 4>Fantastic name.

2:02:27.240 --> 2:02:28.960
<v Speaker 2>I also have to let you know that my.

2:02:29.160 --> 2:02:37.720
<v Speaker 3>Sister Vanessa has two beautiful rag dolls. They are just awesome, honey,

2:02:38.040 --> 2:02:39.800
<v Speaker 3>and they make me laugh.

2:02:43.240 --> 2:02:46.480
<v Speaker 5>Just thank you very much for just doing your shows.

2:02:46.600 --> 2:02:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I just love them.

2:02:52.720 --> 2:02:55.560
<v Speaker 2>I love you on Instagram before. And she's just such

2:02:55.600 --> 2:02:56.640
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful person.

2:02:57.960 --> 2:03:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Hider Mabel and Honey as well.

2:03:03.200 --> 2:03:06.520
<v Speaker 2>And Georgia name is great and also like, okay, if

2:03:06.560 --> 2:03:08.200
<v Speaker 2>you have a if you have a fascination with true crime,

2:03:08.240 --> 2:03:09.960
<v Speaker 2>you've been listening to true crime for a while, you're

2:03:09.960 --> 2:03:13.600
<v Speaker 2>a true crime Yeah, that's right, true crimesic and this

2:03:13.720 --> 2:03:15.200
<v Speaker 2>is probably a different one to listen to if you've

2:03:15.200 --> 2:03:19.720
<v Speaker 2>been listening to lots of true Thank you. We loved

2:03:19.800 --> 2:03:22.600
<v Speaker 2>that voicemail. We love to hear your voice. I want

2:03:22.600 --> 2:03:26.600
<v Speaker 2>to know if I pronounced drink right, drake morning.

2:03:27.360 --> 2:03:28.040
<v Speaker 1>How's it spelt?

2:03:28.160 --> 2:03:28.440
<v Speaker 4>Please?

2:03:28.960 --> 2:03:34.120
<v Speaker 2>It's d r E I see h. I believe maybe

2:03:34.160 --> 2:03:36.360
<v Speaker 2>there's an e on the end of there, but it is.

2:03:36.440 --> 2:03:39.480
<v Speaker 2>It's one of those beautiful Scottish words that I just

2:03:39.600 --> 2:03:44.320
<v Speaker 2>don't Yeah, d R E I c h. Yeah, I

2:03:44.520 --> 2:03:47.240
<v Speaker 2>really want to get I've just wanted to get it

2:03:47.320 --> 2:03:49.280
<v Speaker 2>right because I was like, if I don't get that right,

2:03:50.160 --> 2:03:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm upsetting all about Scottish listeners.

2:03:52.080 --> 2:03:55.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and you will Shrek, particularly Shrek and.

2:03:55.720 --> 2:04:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Also and also our beautiful friend Shinade. I've got for

2:04:00.440 --> 2:04:02.400
<v Speaker 2>you to Well, can you please tell me your poor

2:04:02.440 --> 2:04:03.400
<v Speaker 2>dry p for today?

2:04:03.880 --> 2:04:04.160
<v Speaker 4>I can.

2:04:04.280 --> 2:04:06.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to look it up because you're gonna.

2:04:06.080 --> 2:04:06.520
<v Speaker 2>Look it up.

2:04:06.880 --> 2:04:07.320
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

2:04:08.120 --> 2:04:10.440
<v Speaker 2>You know what you always do this and this about

2:04:10.440 --> 2:04:12.680
<v Speaker 2>you Okay, okay, because you've written so many down.

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<v Speaker 1>Because when I have that, like when they pop into

2:04:15.440 --> 2:04:19.400
<v Speaker 1>me to write them down. Yes, when people talk about

2:04:19.640 --> 2:04:26.840
<v Speaker 1>having high cholesterol, but they just say I've got cholesterol. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's bizarrely yeah yeah arly comment. Oh I can't

2:04:34.040 --> 2:04:38.920
<v Speaker 1>have butter anymore. I've got cholesterol. Yes, yeh, yep, we

2:04:39.000 --> 2:04:39.800
<v Speaker 1>all have cholesterol.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I tell you one that my mum actually told

2:04:44.240 --> 2:04:45.960
<v Speaker 2>me yes, so she said that she used to her

2:04:46.000 --> 2:04:48.880
<v Speaker 2>poor dry peeve was that when I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>I used to open up the fridge, look there's nothing there,

2:04:51.920 --> 2:04:56.400
<v Speaker 2>and a moment later, I back should magically change used

2:04:56.400 --> 2:04:59.400
<v Speaker 2>to go. That was so frustrating that he's gone back

2:05:00.080 --> 2:05:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the free change Yeah, that's a good one. Thanks to

2:05:04.120 --> 2:05:08.520
<v Speaker 2>real you Geldine for that bloody love, that g love.

2:05:09.120 --> 2:05:10.880
<v Speaker 2>It's been a goddamn pleasure to be with you today.

2:05:10.920 --> 2:05:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for that amazing story.

2:05:12.120 --> 2:05:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to Taylor so much, Taylor Richards the best.

2:05:15.880 --> 2:05:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Thank you to Oliver Clark for doing the music. Thank

2:05:17.760 --> 2:05:20.520
<v Speaker 2>you to James and Hayes for doing the artwork.

2:05:20.720 --> 2:05:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to you listeners for following us on Instagram

2:05:23.160 --> 2:05:26.240
<v Speaker 1>and TikTok and Not Another Crime Podcast. Thank you for

2:05:26.400 --> 2:05:29.800
<v Speaker 1>watching us on YouTube about Not Another Crime Podcast. Thank

2:05:29.880 --> 2:05:32.160
<v Speaker 1>you Sammy Peterson for being the best goddamn friend of

2:05:32.240 --> 2:05:33.440
<v Speaker 1>my favorite person in the world.

2:05:33.640 --> 2:05:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for sharing this podcast with your nearest and

2:05:36.160 --> 2:05:38.680
<v Speaker 2>tourist friend so much that as well.

2:05:40.840 --> 2:05:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Say thank you for turning seven and giving us a party.

2:05:45.600 --> 2:05:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Bye buddy, Buddy, Bye buddy. All we have left to

2:05:49.240 --> 2:05:53.280
<v Speaker 2>say on this podcast is thank you for making us TikTok.

2:06:02.520 --> 2:06:07.600
<v Speaker 2>At dusk, a single gunshot echoed across a quiet street.

2:06:08.560 --> 2:06:12.320
<v Speaker 2>There was something very wrong. No one seemed to be around.

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<v Speaker 2>This gunshot seemed too sharp, but in this town there

2:06:18.520 --> 2:06:22.400
<v Speaker 2>was never ever a crime. When responders arrived, they found

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<v Speaker 2>an elderly tycoon collapsed outside his own estate, still alive,

2:06:27.720 --> 2:06:32.680
<v Speaker 2>barely conscious, whispering nonsense, and just like that, a question

2:06:33.360 --> 2:06:38.320
<v Speaker 2>hung over the town like smog. Who did this? The

2:06:38.440 --> 2:06:42.520
<v Speaker 2>man was powerful, obscenely so the dead man.

2:06:42.640 --> 2:06:42.840
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

2:06:43.600 --> 2:06:47.560
<v Speaker 2>He controlled the town's largest employer, dictated local politics through

2:06:47.640 --> 2:06:52.000
<v Speaker 2>fear and money, and treated human beings as disposable resources.

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<v Speaker 2>He was also deeply, profoundly disliked, true doubt this story.

2:07:00.000 --> 2:07:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Instigators were immediately overwhelmed, not by a lack of suspects,

2:07:03.440 --> 2:07:06.680
<v Speaker 2>but by an excess of them.

2:07:06.800 --> 2:07:07.000
<v Speaker 3>You know.

2:07:07.800 --> 2:07:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The list grew faster than detectives could type. Everyone

2:07:11.920 --> 2:07:16.960
<v Speaker 2>had a story, Most had a grudge. Witnesses accounts were unreliable.

2:07:17.080 --> 2:07:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Some contradicted themselves within minutes. Others contradicted reality, alibi shifted,

2:07:22.720 --> 2:07:28.160
<v Speaker 2>timelines warped, physical evidence appeared, disappeared, then reappeared in places

2:07:28.200 --> 2:07:31.840
<v Speaker 2>that made no sense. Eventually, investigators landed on a solution

2:07:32.080 --> 2:07:37.000
<v Speaker 2>that felt neat, too neat. The case was closed with

2:07:37.240 --> 2:07:41.080
<v Speaker 2>public confidence, media applause, and a quiet sense of relief.

2:07:41.880 --> 2:07:45.560
<v Speaker 2>The town wanted the chapter to end. The victim survived.

2:07:47.080 --> 2:07:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Years later, the case is remembered less as a crime

2:07:49.960 --> 2:07:53.520
<v Speaker 2>and more as a cultural mystery. Who done it? Where?

2:07:53.640 --> 2:07:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Motive was universal and logic was optional. The victim, mister Burns,

2:08:00.280 --> 2:08:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the town Springfield, the truth, complicated, absurd, somehow crazier than

2:08:09.000 --> 2:08:14.040
<v Speaker 2>you ever might imagined. As immortalized in the fictional TV

2:08:14.160 --> 2:08:16.960
<v Speaker 2>show The Simpsons, the real question was never who pulled

2:08:17.000 --> 2:08:21.120
<v Speaker 2>the trigger? It was why. It felt like everyone did.

2:08:22.920 --> 2:08:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Who's your mister person? Why did you write that?

2:08:27.560 --> 2:08:28.360
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was fun.

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<v Speaker 1>It's beautiful, beautiful.

2:08:29.840 --> 2:08:31.400
<v Speaker 2>We had a wonderful listener that said you should do

2:08:31.400 --> 2:08:34.720
<v Speaker 2>who shot missus fans? And I thought, real quickly, get

2:08:34.720 --> 2:08:37.000
<v Speaker 2>away with that for a whole episode. I thought it

2:08:37.040 --> 2:08:38.879
<v Speaker 2>could be a little little fun, little tack.

2:08:38.720 --> 2:08:43.680
<v Speaker 1>On this shows. I know you too well, because when

2:08:43.760 --> 2:08:45.920
<v Speaker 1>you were like I was like, why did you say tycoon?

2:08:46.800 --> 2:08:50.839
<v Speaker 1>It's such a weird word. Oh my damn Simon.

2:08:52.880 --> 2:08:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, but

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<v Speaker 7>M