Speaker 1: Life Uncut podcasts acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout
Speaker 1: Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We
Speaker 1: pay our respect to their elders past and present and
Speaker 1: extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander
Speaker 1: peoples today.
Speaker 2: This episode is recorded on Gaddigal Land of the Urora Nation.
Speaker 2: Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura and I'm Brittany, and we are not recording
Speaker 2: the start of this episode, which is a good thing
Speaker 2: because Britt's sitting here in Mahattan.
Speaker 3: I have not showered today.
Speaker 1: And by not recording, you mean we're not video recording.
Speaker 3: Recording this. Yeah, I hit record. We're not video recording
Speaker 3: the start of the episode. No, and you know what,
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: We went, as you guys know, we had a couple
Speaker 1: of years where we didn't really do the videos because
Speaker 1: we were chaos at.
Speaker 3: Hard time time.
Speaker 2: I had like a baby hanging off my boob and
Speaker 2: that was just we were not in a place to record.
Speaker 2: It was midnight, it.
Speaker 3: Was six am.
Speaker 1: Mentally or physically, metaphorically, literally spiritually, we could not video
Speaker 1: record this. But now we have started this year to
Speaker 1: finally we're in a place where we can record. So
Speaker 1: we've started to make ourselves slightly more presentable. But on
Speaker 1: the off days that we don't, we rejoice because we
Speaker 1: cannot worry about what we look like again, we can
Speaker 1: be a little bit crazy. And yes, Laura is laughing
Speaker 1: at me because I have a hat on inside.
Speaker 3: It's cute. It's New Balance.
Speaker 1: It's cute I am wearing inside.
Speaker 3: Not sponsored by New Balances.
Speaker 1: Not sponsored, could be actually might be coming up if
Speaker 1: you're out there New Balance. I wear a New Balance
Speaker 1: to death. Probably the Jordan was sponsored by it, so
Speaker 1: I used to I got on that team. Okay, too soon?
Speaker 1: Not talking about Jordan.
Speaker 3: Oh no, Ip, the man that we never talk about anymore.
Speaker 3: Did you know?
Speaker 1: I was at the dog park yesterday in this hat
Speaker 1: and someone that I have seen a bit lately. At
Speaker 1: the dog par like, you learn the same the same
Speaker 1: people there, so you learn maybe dogs you make friends
Speaker 1: in the dot dogs names more than you know the owners.
Speaker 2: It's just how it works a dog. It's exactly the
Speaker 2: same with the kids from daycare. I know all the
Speaker 2: kids from daycare's names.
Speaker 1: Not their parents.
Speaker 3: Don't know their parents.
Speaker 1: And then this guy was sitting there and I looked
Speaker 1: at him and I recognized him, and I was like hey,
Speaker 1: and he looked at me. And I had my hair
Speaker 1: like up in a bun, you couldn't really see it.
Speaker 1: And I had my new balanced hat on over the top.
Speaker 1: I had a fanny pack and everything I wear a
Speaker 1: fanny pack.
Speaker 2: Now, who goes all my dark has really spiraled out
Speaker 2: of control for Brittney over the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Most people get a glow up in a break up.
Speaker 1: I start wearing a fanny pack.
Speaker 3: I've seen your first trap, Sabe. Don't worry. You've had
Speaker 3: a glow up. It's fake. I'm putting my best foot
Speaker 3: forward on social media. Look at me right now? Why
Speaker 3: am I like, put your shirt down?
Speaker 2: I'm so glad we're not filming this. And this is
Speaker 2: partly why it took us so long to get cameras
Speaker 2: and actually do this. Probably britt just out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: just lifted her entire shirt up above her boobs and
Speaker 2: then sat there holding her boobs. I know that we're
Speaker 2: really good friends, but also imagine if we did this,
Speaker 2: recorded this in like a RN's off and you just
Speaker 2: sat in a studio holding onto your titties.
Speaker 1: But we're in my.
Speaker 3: Home and it's comfort. Anyway.
Speaker 1: He looked at me, and he looked at me strangely,
Speaker 1: and I was like, it's me and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't notice you under there.
Speaker 3: You look like a soccer mom.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm so offended.
Speaker 3: What do you mean.
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, I just haven't seen you quiet looking
Speaker 2: like this, and I'm like, I don't know, just stop
Speaker 2: digging your hole, Like what's wrong with what I'm wearing.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm sorry. He's like, nothing's wrong with what
Speaker 1: you're wearing. But he's like, I just don't feel like
Speaker 1: you look like your potential.
Speaker 2: I feel on behalf of all the moms out there
Speaker 2: who just like literally get by on life and leave
Speaker 2: the house. I feel sorry for us, and I feel
Speaker 2: personally victimized.
Speaker 1: I said to him, I said this, I'm living my
Speaker 1: best life.
Speaker 3: This is the most comfortable I've ever been. Do you
Speaker 3: know how practical a phanic pack in a hat is?
Speaker 2: Yes, I do, I absolutely do, And I think that
Speaker 2: I feel offended.
Speaker 3: Anyway, look great, Thank you. What have you been up
Speaker 3: to guys?
Speaker 2: I went to Brisbane over the weekend. I know if
Speaker 2: any of you following my socials, you would be aware
Speaker 2: there was a telethon happening which was it was basically
Speaker 2: Channel ten, that Channel nine and Channel seven, all the
Speaker 2: major networks came together, put their differences aside and raised
Speaker 2: money for the floods, raise money for Red Cross.
Speaker 3: Love that.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys know this, but Channel ten,
Speaker 2: Channel nine and Channel seven actually hate each other, like
Speaker 2: they never do anything together. They're always in competition with
Speaker 2: each other.
Speaker 1: Well they are indirect competition, so I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's hate hate, but it's like we're not going to
Speaker 1: go for a drink after work, We're not going to
Speaker 1: buddy up.
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: And also if you're like deemed Channel ten talent, you're
Speaker 2: like not allowed to go on Channel nine. If your
Speaker 2: Channel nine talent, you're not allowed to go on Channel seven.
Speaker 2: This Channel ten talent, I'm not even allowed to ChIL
Speaker 2: ten were apparently a Channel ten talent, but they never
Speaker 2: put us on. But basically there's this real like internal
Speaker 2: rivalry between the networks, and because of the floods and
Speaker 2: wanting to raise money, they put their differences aside. They
Speaker 2: got all of the different talent together and they did
Speaker 2: this fun raising drive. I mean, like Matt and I
Speaker 2: didn't make the cut for Sydney. We got shipped out
Speaker 2: to Brisbane officers, but we basically flew into Brisbane for
Speaker 2: the day. Then we went to the Red Cross call
Speaker 2: center there and there was there was like heaps of
Speaker 2: people from Maths, there was heaps of people from Master Chef.
Speaker 3: Like it was a really fun little crew, a lot
Speaker 3: of reality TV.
Speaker 4: It was all.
Speaker 2: It was like Brisbane was the reality TV office. And
Speaker 2: at Sandra Sully was there, Matt got like weirdly nervous
Speaker 2: around Sandra Sully. He was like, she's amazing. Maybe she's
Speaker 2: his hall pass. I think she might be cute, and
Speaker 2: I'm not even mad about it. She's pretty great.
Speaker 3: She's a boss. She's a boss.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Basically I spent my Saturday night on the phones,
Speaker 2: like answering phone calls and taking money from incredible people
Speaker 2: who rang up to donate. There were people who were
Speaker 2: donating like twenty thousand dollars twenty five thousand dollars pop.
Speaker 2: I'm sure some of them were businesses.
Speaker 3: But what are these people? Even?
Speaker 2: I had this one little lady ring up and her
Speaker 2: name was Susan and she was like, dear, I'd like
Speaker 2: to donate two hundred dollars and that was all of
Speaker 2: her pension that she had left over for the week, and.
Speaker 3: She's got goosebumps. I'd like stop it.
Speaker 2: People were incredibly generous and they raised like twenty five
Speaker 2: million dollars to go towards the flood victims.
Speaker 3: It was an incredible It was incredible.
Speaker 1: What was raised was I knew because I was watching.
Speaker 1: I wasn't invited as any talent, but I was watching
Speaker 1: from the sidelines.
Speaker 2: It's still it's like a little bit dirty that she
Speaker 2: didn't get to go on to it.
Speaker 1: I actually feel like you missed an opportunity. I could
Speaker 1: have raised so much money for you guys. But I
Speaker 1: was watching from the sidelines, and I just I knew
Speaker 1: would make a lot of money. And I say we
Speaker 1: as a country. I knew Australia has a really really
Speaker 1: great way of pulling through as a community in these times.
Speaker 1: We saw it in the bushfires, We've seen it multiple times.
Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be a lot of money.
Speaker 1: I picked my drop off the ground when I saw
Speaker 1: the number when I saw it was over twenty five
Speaker 1: million dollars in one night, and I know there'd be
Speaker 1: a couple of big spenders in there. There'd be a
Speaker 1: couple of businesses that dropped some big money, a couple
Speaker 1: of businesses that drop some money to see Matt wear address.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that in a second, but I was
Speaker 1: just so it's these moments that makes me so proud
Speaker 1: to being like. I was so proud, I shared on
Speaker 1: my socials. I was just like, fuck, yes, I in
Speaker 1: this moment. I love Australia so much, and I know
Speaker 1: that we have things to say about the government, but
Speaker 1: as a community, as a people, we are rock solid
Speaker 1: and it makes me very emotional. You know.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you say that, because at the beginning
Speaker 2: of the night, I was thinking, maybe we'll make ten
Speaker 2: million dollars, Like maybe we'll raise ten million. I thought
Speaker 2: that would be just an astronomical achievement. But I think
Speaker 2: the reason why I wasn't expecting the amount of money
Speaker 2: to be so high is because I do feel like
Speaker 2: people have real fatigue at the moment, like almost like
Speaker 2: charity or empathy fatigue. There's been so many bad things
Speaker 2: that have happened, and it's happened just like unrelenting. It's
Speaker 2: one bad thing after another bad thing. And so every
Speaker 2: day you see there's a GoFundMe page or there's something
Speaker 2: that's happening where somebody's life has been disastrously affected.
Speaker 1: That is a real thing, this fatigue, and because the
Speaker 1: world is a shift fire at the moment.
Speaker 2: Well, Santa Sally actually she put it so well into
Speaker 2: words when we were speaking, and she was like, you know,
Speaker 2: people get empathy fatigue. They become desensitized to the plight
Speaker 2: and the need of people, purely because we're seeing so
Speaker 2: much of it and it's unending. But it was just
Speaker 2: such an incredible night. And obviously live TV is always
Speaker 2: a little bit rogue and a little bit silly, and
Speaker 2: Matt ended up wearing a dress which he would have
Speaker 2: done for free, but he did it because we've got
Speaker 2: someone who donated five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: He done it for free. Home all the time. He
Speaker 3: wore my.
Speaker 2: Beautiful floor dress on National TV. So that was a
Speaker 2: real moment in the night.
Speaker 1: I thought he looked amazing, he looked very pretty.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that was it. That was We went.
Speaker 2: So we went to Brisbane, and we got to be
Speaker 2: a part of this incredible fundraiser and Brittany ended up
Speaker 2: back on Hinge. It's been a successful weekend all round.
Speaker 1: Well, I wouldn't say successful for everyone. No, it's definitely.
Speaker 1: It's definitely been successful for you.
Speaker 2: Tell us what getting back on the dating apps is, like,
Speaker 2: britt I went, I mean.
Speaker 3: I'm not back on there yet.
Speaker 1: So, uh, Keisha and I were at my house last
Speaker 1: night quite late after doing some work and we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's just grab some dinner. And she was talking about
Speaker 1: her dating life and I was like, fuck, should I
Speaker 1: get back on there? And I was like, why not.
Speaker 1: I'll just put a profile. See what happens. So I
Speaker 1: haven't talked to anyone or met anyone, but it was
Speaker 1: you haven't set the profile live, but you've curated it.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, well live people, you're there. People can
Speaker 2: screenshot this now daily Mail. Brittany is back on the
Speaker 2: dating app, but.
Speaker 1: People were screenshot it. I was like, is my dating
Speaker 1: life really that interesting?
Speaker 3: But the whole podcast is about it so funny. I
Speaker 3: was like, fuck you, Hinge.
Speaker 1: I was setting up the profile and it's been so
Speaker 1: long since I've been on a Hinge profile because even
Speaker 1: before there was a while there, before I even met Jordan,
Speaker 1: that I wasn't really on a dating side anymore because
Speaker 1: I had dating fatigue. I was only on rail where
Speaker 1: I met Jordan, and that profile had been SAP a
Speaker 1: long time ago, so I forgot what it was like
Speaker 1: to set a profile up.
Speaker 3: I was setting the Hinden profile up.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it asks you so many detailers wanted
Speaker 1: to know the last time I had a pooh, Like,
Speaker 1: every single thing about my life I had to put
Speaker 1: into this thing. And then it's like, put your age in,
Speaker 1: put your birthday in, so it logged your age. So
Speaker 1: I put my birthday in, and then it came up
Speaker 1: with a message that was like, just so you know,
Speaker 1: you can't change this, and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, fuck you, Hinge. I'm thirty four. I know I
Speaker 3: can't change this.
Speaker 1: You don't have to remind me.
Speaker 3: Why do you think that your age is such a
Speaker 3: bad thing. I don't.
Speaker 1: I just think it's hilarious that every single piece of
Speaker 1: your information needs to go on. And I just thought
Speaker 1: it was more hilarious that it was sending me a message.
Speaker 1: I reminded being you can't change your age obviously it
Speaker 1: meant like the data, but I just was having a
Speaker 1: little hissyf like you can't change your age in life,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm very well aware of that.
Speaker 1: But I got back on Hinge. It was a little
Speaker 1: bit I'm not gonna lie. I did about ten minutes
Speaker 1: of swiping. It was a bit soul crushing. I felt
Speaker 1: a bit defeated. I was like, I can't live I'm
Speaker 1: back in this dating world, only because the first ten
Speaker 1: minutes there was just nobody that was of interest to me.
Speaker 2: It's always pretty jarring getting back into the dating world
Speaker 2: after being like coming out of a breakup, coming out
Speaker 2: of relationship, and then that first initial swipe where you're like, fuck, oh,
Speaker 2: I were back.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine I'm gonna be on it for very long.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping it happens organically. I hope, I mean someone organically,
Speaker 1: or they slide into my dms. Now, I have always
Speaker 1: told you guys that people don't slide into my dams,
Speaker 1: and I'm not exaggerating. They just don't. It does not happen.
Speaker 1: People do not slain too my dams. But last week
Speaker 1: I did say that there were I think two or
Speaker 1: three people over a week period. That did the most
Speaker 1: ever one of them. I started to engage in conversation
Speaker 1: with He has a bit of a profile, but that's irrelevant.
Speaker 3: But I sort of famous, is what she's trying to say.
Speaker 1: I google him, I mean, like I did. I didn't
Speaker 1: know him, but he was Yeah, So I did my
Speaker 1: due diligence and I looked it up a little bit.
Speaker 2: And can we play like a game of charade? Can
Speaker 2: you give me a couple of clues and.
Speaker 3: We try and guess who this guy is?
Speaker 2: This is what happened, right, is a sports person? Yes,
Speaker 2: Michael Clark, We're not.
Speaker 1: No, Clark is a Friend's here we go. He's a
Speaker 1: nice guy. Clik is great.
Speaker 3: So no, so we're.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, let's engage. Let's engage
Speaker 1: in conversation. Within two days, we're having a fight. We're
Speaker 1: having an Instagram DM fight because I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'm hyper sensitive. He told me that long story, Shorty
Speaker 1: told me that I wasn't capable of building or if
Speaker 1: you follow me an Instagram, you guys see that I'm
Speaker 1: doing a lot of do it yourselves. You know, I
Speaker 1: live alone. I build stuff alone. That's what happens from
Speaker 1: now on, I'm going to pay more sort arrives built.
Speaker 1: I make flat pack.
Speaker 3: In your spare type. You're a flat packer.
Speaker 1: I am a flat packer. Yeah, not very good one,
Speaker 1: but I'm doing it. And he made a comment that
Speaker 1: I'm not capable to do it alone. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm hyper sensitive right now, because my biggest
Speaker 1: tick in life is somebody telling me that I'm not
Speaker 1: capable of doing something, or that I have had excessive
Speaker 1: help somewhere along the way, like this is what this
Speaker 1: is what I hate from people in life. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm like highly emotional, but I just
Speaker 1: arked up. He's like, you can't do that on your own,
Speaker 1: and I just lost it and we ended up having
Speaker 1: a fight on a DM. But I've never met the
Speaker 1: guy having a full and fight. And he was so
Speaker 1: passive aggressive back to me, Do.
Speaker 2: You think he was doing it in the hopes that
Speaker 2: you would invite him around to help you make this
Speaker 2: piece of furniture.
Speaker 1: Well, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, right,
Speaker 1: So I thought that I got a bit defensive, informed him,
Speaker 1: made sure he knew how capable I was, So I
Speaker 1: was like, you obviously know nothing about me. So I
Speaker 1: feeled him in on you know, I was like, well, actually,
Speaker 1: I'm very capable. I've done this, this and this and this.
Speaker 1: I've lived in old countries alone, like, trust me, I
Speaker 1: can build my own furniture. And then so I gave
Speaker 1: him the benefit of the doubt and I was like,
Speaker 1: maybe he's looking for an inn. So I said, well,
Speaker 1: you're more than welcome if you don't think I can
Speaker 1: do it, even though I know I can. You're more
Speaker 1: than welcome to come do it for me or help me.
Speaker 1: And he wrote back and said, oh, no, you've made
Speaker 1: it very clear. How in quote you've made very clear
Speaker 1: how independent you are. I think you. I think you'll
Speaker 1: be fine on your own something like that, and then
Speaker 1: I lost it again. Then we had a full on fight.
Speaker 1: And then that's my experience with anyone sliding into my DMS.
Speaker 1: It's not positive.
Speaker 2: And the funniest part of this is that Britty end
Speaker 2: up calling Produce Akisha to come over and help her
Speaker 2: make the fly pack.
Speaker 1: Now this is a second flap pack. This hasn't been
Speaker 1: built yet, this is my second one. And I was like, look,
Speaker 1: I just want you to I just want to highlight
Speaker 1: there's a difference between needing help and wanting it.
Speaker 3: I want it and don't need it. But also this
Speaker 3: comes back to like insecurities.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, maybe, but men being casually aggressive smart or
Speaker 2: like being smart asses or being like nasty and messaging
Speaker 2: poking funn at and thinking that making a degrading joke
Speaker 2: is a funny way to connect with someone.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, we twelve, I'll be back at school.
Speaker 1: When you like someone and you pay them out, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're child.
Speaker 3: But a lot of people do it. I don't think
Speaker 3: it's just gendered.
Speaker 2: I probably shouldn't say just guys, but there are definitely,
Speaker 2: and I remember from my experiences in dating, there are
Speaker 2: definitely a lot of men who find it funny to
Speaker 2: put you down and think that that's the way that
Speaker 2: they're going to be able to get you to go, oh, hey, actually,
Speaker 2: let's go on a date together. There's this weird put
Speaker 2: down culture sometimes when it comes to dating, and it
Speaker 2: actually sometimes comes from people who do have an interest
Speaker 2: in you, but maybe they're trying to play it cool
Speaker 2: or play it too cool. I don't know where it
Speaker 2: comes from, but it's very unproductive to having a great.
Speaker 3: Relationship that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't responded to a man a couple of days.
Speaker 3: He's dead to me.
Speaker 2: Okay, well this is We have such a fucking awesome
Speaker 2: episode for you today, guys, and we are so excited
Speaker 2: for who we are speaking to today now. Chanelle Contos
Speaker 2: is somebody that we have spoken about on the podcast before.
Speaker 2: We spoke about her last October when she made headlines
Speaker 2: for her incredible work in changing the way that we
Speaker 2: are viewing and the way that we are educating consent
Speaker 2: in school. So basically, over the last year, Chanelle has
Speaker 2: been lobbying and campaigning for within schools all across Australia
Speaker 2: for consent to be brought in as a mandatory part
Speaker 2: of the curriculum. So not I mean, you guys, remember
Speaker 2: what consent conversations were like when we were at school.
Speaker 1: They didn't exist, really, it didn't exist.
Speaker 2: You would have one or two lessons around sex education,
Speaker 2: but the actual education around what consent looks like? How
Speaker 2: do we give or take away consent to someone? How
Speaker 2: do we navigate those conversations and relationships, especially when we're
Speaker 2: having our first early sexual experiences in school. This is
Speaker 2: what Chanelle's entire campaign is about now. She is the
Speaker 2: founder of Teach Us Consent and as of last year,
Speaker 2: there has been huge reform in the way that these
Speaker 2: conversations will take place in school or because of Chanelle's advocacy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's really incredible. She's the thing she has done
Speaker 1: within a really small timeframe as somebody that didn't have
Speaker 1: a platform to start with. She was just somebody that
Speaker 1: really believed in something, someone that had experienced things she
Speaker 1: shouldn't have, her friends had experienced it, and she just
Speaker 1: had enough. And I take my hat off to her
Speaker 1: because within a year she's meeting with the Prime Minister,
Speaker 1: she's meeting with Scott Morrison, and she's getting big money
Speaker 1: to make changes. She's made huge changes with the curriculum.
Speaker 1: She has gone above and beyond, and she did it
Speaker 1: with nothing but passion and hard work.
Speaker 2: The thing that I think is really incredible about speaking
Speaker 2: to Chanel, and so amazing about the way that she
Speaker 2: talks about consent is that this episode's centers hugely around
Speaker 2: a conversation about sexual assault. But what Chanelle has managed
Speaker 2: to pinpoint is that so many of us grew up
Speaker 2: in a culture that not only was sexual assault prevalent,
Speaker 2: but it was almost accepting of it. And now I
Speaker 2: know that that's going to sound really jarring to a
Speaker 2: lot of people. But what I mean by this is
Speaker 2: so many of us went through our adolescents or we
Speaker 2: went through university where we have seen or heard of
Speaker 2: our friends being sexually assaulted. Maybe we have been sexually
Speaker 2: assaulted ourselves. Maybe you have your own experience of how
Speaker 2: it has affected you. And nobody is held accountable for this,
Speaker 2: and so much of that comes down to the conversation
Speaker 2: around consent. It comes down to the fact that we
Speaker 2: have been conditioned. Not that we're okay with sexual assault,
Speaker 2: not that we're okay with rape culture, but we're very
Speaker 2: familiar with it, and that the fact that we have
Speaker 2: been brought up in a society where it is so
Speaker 2: incredibly common and very few people are held to accountability
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's because people never and actually I shouldn't say never,
Speaker 1: not enough people in the past have had platforms big
Speaker 1: enough to make enough noise that they want to make
Speaker 1: about we weren't having open conversations now and we speak
Speaker 1: about this in the episode. Now women have had enough,
Speaker 1: but not only have they had enough, We've always had enough,
Speaker 1: But we actually have a means to voice our thoughts
Speaker 1: and our opinions. We have a means to say no.
Speaker 1: We have platforms now, we have other people that will
Speaker 1: help us amplify our voices. And I think that's made
Speaker 1: a huge difference.
Speaker 2: But don't you think it's amazing that Chanelle, she identified
Speaker 2: like she looked at this and she was like, why
Speaker 2: have so many of my friends been sexually assaulted? Why
Speaker 2: have I experienced sexual assault? And why isn't why are
Speaker 2: more people fucking furious about this? Like this is an
Speaker 2: epidemic that young people experience. So many women and young
Speaker 2: girls experience sexual assault, and instead of just looking at
Speaker 2: it as though it's just a part of what happens
Speaker 2: in our society, Chanelle has unpacked where that stems from.
Speaker 2: And the way to be able to condition and to
Speaker 2: kind of change people's views and mentality towards this is
Speaker 2: to start teaching consent in schools, really driving home the
Speaker 2: basic facts of things that we think everyone should know,
Speaker 2: but kids don't know it unless they're taught it.
Speaker 1: And speaking of being taught something, before we get into
Speaker 1: the chat with Chanel, I want to add something that
Speaker 1: Chanel and I spoke about after we recorded the podcast,
Speaker 1: so I learned she taught me something. In the episode,
Speaker 1: we speak a little bit about a different level of consent,
Speaker 1: and this is the idea that women can change their
Speaker 1: mind when they're already in a situation. They may have consented,
Speaker 1: then they may change their mind and they don't want
Speaker 1: to have sex anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and consent being this fluid thing that can change
Speaker 2: it anytime.
Speaker 1: So I was telling a story about how I I mean,
Speaker 1: I've done it before. I've definitely had sex at a
Speaker 1: time with someone where I'm not saying it was forced.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying inside my head, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't really want to do this. All my friends
Speaker 1: have been in the same situation. Like I feel like
Speaker 1: every single person and I know everyone listening is going
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, I've definitely done that.
Speaker 3: Well, I've definitely done it. Yeah, And so we want to.
Speaker 1: Talk about the fact that you can change your mind
Speaker 1: and you don't have to do it now. We did
Speaker 1: speak briefly about this in the episode, and afterwards Chanelle
Speaker 1: sent me She's like, look what you were talking about
Speaker 1: what your friend did recently. She's like, that has a name,
Speaker 1: but people don't know about it. It's actually the fourth
Speaker 1: trauma response. So the trauma responses are number one is fight,
Speaker 1: number two is flight, number three is freeze, and number
Speaker 1: four is fawn. So this idea of women subjecting themselves
Speaker 1: to something they don't want to do and not actually
Speaker 1: voicing that they don't want to do it, it's called fawning,
Speaker 1: and it's essentially you're people pleasing. You're scared in a situation,
Speaker 1: you don't want to cause conflict, you don't want to
Speaker 1: upset somebody else. You think it's easier to just do
Speaker 1: something you don't want to do than cause a scene.
Speaker 1: So it does have a name. It is called fawning,
Speaker 1: and it is absolutely something that is not acceptable. You
Speaker 1: do not have to do it. You don't have to
Speaker 1: do anything you don't want to do to please another
Speaker 1: human or to be scared, to disrupt him, to embarrass
Speaker 1: yourself or to embarrass.
Speaker 3: The guy, or feeling feelings.
Speaker 1: You can change your mind.
Speaker 2: I would say that there are probably so many women
Speaker 2: listening to this who have had sex in their life
Speaker 2: with somebody who they didn't really want to have sex with.
Speaker 2: Now it wasn't I'm not saying that it's sexual assault
Speaker 2: that it's right because they and themselves just did it
Speaker 2: and kind of were like, it's easier to do it
Speaker 2: and get it over with than to try and get
Speaker 2: up and leave, or to have a conversation and tell
Speaker 2: the guy I'm not interested, Like maybe it had already
Speaker 2: gone so far that you're like, oh fuck, I don't
Speaker 2: want to have.
Speaker 3: Sex with him, let's just get it over But I'll.
Speaker 2: Just do it anyway. And that's exactly what we're talking
Speaker 2: about in this. It's like really understanding that you have
Speaker 2: an agency over your own body, understanding what consent is
Speaker 2: and why it's so imperative that this is taught to
Speaker 2: kids from a really, really young age, So it's not
Speaker 2: after the fact, it's not after they've already started to
Speaker 2: have sexual experiences that they learned that they can say
Speaker 2: no in all these different complex environments. It's a fucking
Speaker 2: good episode, guys. We're going to get into that shortly.
Speaker 2: But as you guys know, before we get into the
Speaker 2: chat with Chanelle, there is a segment that we do
Speaker 2: on every single episode, and that is accidentally unfiltered confessional slash.
Speaker 3: Do you have a confessional or do you have an
Speaker 3: accidently unfiltered today. Well I had to I think I
Speaker 3: might just go with the short. So good to see that.
Speaker 3: I was like, I didn't know which one to do.
Speaker 3: I might just go with this.
Speaker 2: I think I was get like a super short confessional today,
Speaker 2: all right, because I have a super short accidentally unfiltered.
Speaker 2: My husband and I own horses and run horse clinics,
Speaker 2: and what that means is we take people's horses and
Speaker 2: we train them for them all we care for them
Speaker 2: while they are away. We had a very lovely but
Speaker 2: also very proper client of ours leave her horse with
Speaker 2: us for several weeks to care for. On Friday, just
Speaker 2: pass she sent me a message saying she wanted to
Speaker 2: come pick up her horse as she wanted to go
Speaker 2: riding on the weekend, but unfortunately her horse wasn't ready.
Speaker 2: Being the generous horse, like the horses in there doing
Speaker 2: specific training, so it's like you can't just take it
Speaker 2: out or it breaks the training.
Speaker 3: Right, Sorry, your car is not ready. Now, I'm sorry
Speaker 3: the horse I ain't ready. We have an the service
Speaker 3: to do on the horse.
Speaker 1: He still needs a nails done.
Speaker 2: Being the generous woman I am, I wanted to offer
Speaker 2: her my husband's horse duck to take out for her
Speaker 2: trail ride. So I sent her a message and didn't
Speaker 2: think anything of it at all until I received a
Speaker 2: message back saying that I was being totally inappropriate. Turns
Speaker 2: out the message I had sent had a tiper win
Speaker 2: it and it read as follows, Unfortunately your horse won't
Speaker 2: be ready for this weekend, but Lee has offered you
Speaker 2: his precious dick to write for the weekend instead.
Speaker 3: How does that sound?
Speaker 2: I'd send without even looking at the messages, And now
Speaker 2: I have to face this woman when she comes next
Speaker 2: week because I'd offered to take my hobby out for
Speaker 2: a spin, so she offered her husband's dick up to
Speaker 2: her a very professional client, because her horse had to
Speaker 2: get a nails done. I just love how innocent it is,
Speaker 2: but also like, here, please take my husband's dick for
Speaker 2: a spin.
Speaker 1: It's because why does Apple think that everything we want
Speaker 1: to write is duk Like she wanted to say duck.
Speaker 3: She did the one time that it does it backwards
Speaker 3: and you want to say dick, it ordered corrects to dark.
Speaker 2: But also on day that I have never in my
Speaker 2: life said that I ducking don't want something, but oh right,
Speaker 2: I ducking hate that or I ducking?
Speaker 3: Everyone does everyone? Why do they think that we want
Speaker 3: to do it?
Speaker 2: And the one time this poor lady actually wants to say
Speaker 2: dark and order a reverse auto correct to dick. But also,
Speaker 2: why on earth why why would you call your horse duck?
Speaker 3: For how no for how smart Apple is, for how you.
Speaker 2: Call your horse, for how advanced at Apple technology is.
Speaker 2: Why would it ever think that the Australian population is
Speaker 2: so obsessed with saying the word.
Speaker 3: Duck or ducking?
Speaker 1: Who knows? I think that they're trying to say, Look,
Speaker 1: we don't encourage the word buck, we don't encourage profanity.
Speaker 2: But like we get at Apple, however hear at lafe
Speaker 2: on cut, we do all right?
Speaker 3: What is your confessional?
Speaker 1: Okay, here's my confessional. So, my sister has just got
Speaker 1: out of a very long term relationship. I'm talking ten years,
Speaker 1: unfortunately nearing the end. The last couple of years it
Speaker 1: was getting quite emotionally abusive. I'm so glad she got
Speaker 1: out of it and she's finally happy again. But I
Speaker 1: have something that I want to confess. My sister and
Speaker 1: I used to live together and her boyfriend would come
Speaker 1: and visit us often. He worked into state. So when
Speaker 1: he visited, it was good for a few days at
Speaker 1: a time. Inevitably, every time he visited there ended up
Speaker 1: being a huge fight between them. He would resort to
Speaker 1: derogatory name calling, which has really got me because I
Speaker 1: would witness this. So it got to the point when
Speaker 1: they were out of the house, I would take his toothbrush,
Speaker 1: wipe it all around a dirty toilet bowl, flash it
Speaker 1: under the toilet water, and put it back.
Speaker 3: Well played. This is just like the perfect crime.
Speaker 2: You'll always get away with it, except he'll nobody gets
Speaker 2: gastro well.
Speaker 3: I wonder if he did.
Speaker 1: So do you know what it is a perfect crime,
Speaker 1: because I guess you it's so satisfying to you know
Speaker 1: that there's like pooh water on his toilet brush, but
Speaker 1: you'll never you would never look at it. It actually makes
Speaker 1: me a bit worried. This is why I kind never
Speaker 1: live with anyone. I don't trust them. He'll never look
Speaker 1: at that and be like, that's pooh water. There's pop
Speaker 1: particles on that.
Speaker 2: They won't remember. This happened on Maths a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago. No Share, there was a big toilet toothbrush
Speaker 2: conspiracy that happened.
Speaker 1: Someone did that on national television.
Speaker 3: Did they get roasted? Yes, it did not go down.
Speaker 2: What anyway, guys, let's get into the chat with Chanelle.
Speaker 2: As we talked about at the beginning of this episode,
Speaker 2: we are talking about sexual assault with Chanelle today. Now
Speaker 2: this comes with a bit of a trigger warning. If
Speaker 2: this brings up anything in you or you need to
Speaker 2: speak to someone, please call one eight hundred.
Speaker 3: Respect.
Speaker 1: Also, it is completely fine that this episode might not
Speaker 1: be for you, so please feel free to skip it.
Speaker 1: Maybe you want to come back to an aedilated date,
Speaker 1: or maybe you don't want to listen.
Speaker 3: At all, that is totally okay.
Speaker 2: Chanelle is a young activist and the founder of Teachers
Speaker 2: Consent and she has been successful in lobbying the government
Speaker 2: to create and provide holistic consent and sexual education in schools.
Speaker 2: She's been awarded the Australian Human Rights Commission of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one Young People's Medal for her exceptional advocacy for
Speaker 2: had a consent and education and raising the issue of
Speaker 2: sexual assault within schools to the National Spotlight. Chanelle, Welcome
Speaker 2: to Life on Cut.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited
Speaker 4: to speak to you both.
Speaker 1: Chanell Where are you coming from right now? Because everyone
Speaker 1: listening we're on a zoom call.
Speaker 3: But where are you?
Speaker 1: I'm in Sydney at the moment you are, And because
Speaker 1: you correct me if I'm wrong, do you still live
Speaker 1: over in England? Do you live in London?
Speaker 5: It's a good question.
Speaker 4: So I was meant to come to Sydney for just
Speaker 4: a few weeks and I've ended up staying a few months.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I've been living in London and was living
Speaker 4: there the whole time the petition was going on. And
Speaker 4: I'm hoping to go back in next month or so
Speaker 4: and then spend like another six months there and then
Speaker 4: move back to Australia.
Speaker 5: So Australia is very much.
Speaker 3: Home fair, Chanelle.
Speaker 1: We never start an episode of Life on Cut without
Speaker 1: an accidentally unfiltered when our guests come on, we love
Speaker 1: nothing more than throwing you under the bus on a
Speaker 1: national and worldwide level and hearing your embarrassing stories.
Speaker 4: So do you have I have a few, but I
Speaker 4: have one that I'm willing to share, but I'm still
Speaker 4: not entirely sure I'm willing to share it.
Speaker 3: But here goes toy, now go. That's also why we
Speaker 3: put at the start so people can't back out.
Speaker 4: So I had a bit of a crush on this boy,
Speaker 4: and I spent a bit of time with him, not
Speaker 4: much time, so it's probably the third time that we're
Speaker 4: hanging out, and we never like kissed before anything. It
Speaker 4: was actually almost like it was very.
Speaker 5: Friendly, but I was pretty into him.
Speaker 4: I went to his house one night to watch a
Speaker 4: movie after going to dinner with friends, and then I
Speaker 4: just like feel a little bit sick and I was like,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go, and he was like, I'll walk you out.
Speaker 4: In my mind, I was thinking like, well, please don't
Speaker 4: walk me out, Like I feel really sick right now,
Speaker 4: but okay.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna let one worry. Please do not come out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, So we're like walking and in the lobby
Speaker 4: of his apartment block, and context for everyone is that
Speaker 4: I'm allergic to mushrooms. Huge reaction to when I eat mushrooms, it's.
Speaker 5: Still follow them up.
Speaker 4: And turns out there was mushroom sauce all over my dinner.
Speaker 4: So I turned around him, I'm so sorry, but I
Speaker 4: think I'm about to vomit right now. And before the
Speaker 4: like automatic doors could even open to the outside of
Speaker 4: the apartment block and literally like just projectile everywhere.
Speaker 3: Please tell me you turned away from him.
Speaker 4: I didn't have time to do anything. I was vomiting.
Speaker 4: And then that's not even the worst part. It gets worse.
Speaker 4: He happened to have like an extreme like phobia a
Speaker 4: vomit so he was a sympathetic vomita. So I'm like
Speaker 4: laughing and vomiting at the same time, and he's like
Speaker 4: two meters away from me, also like gagging and vomiting,
Speaker 4: And it was probably the most embarrassing that's ever happened
Speaker 4: to me.
Speaker 5: It was actually just so absurd.
Speaker 1: If anything vomiting in synchronicity is something that's gonna bond
Speaker 1: you together for the rest of your.
Speaker 3: Life, well you don't know if it is. You're like, no,
Speaker 3: we're not dating.
Speaker 5: It can confirm it. It didn't. It did not bond us.
Speaker 3: So were you inside the glass door?
Speaker 1: So are you in like a carpeted area or a
Speaker 1: child area and just like letting it rain or what's
Speaker 1: the situation.
Speaker 3: Tiled area?
Speaker 4: And then I got most of it on the concrete
Speaker 4: just outside, but there was some on the glass automatic doors.
Speaker 4: And because obviously he had a phobian vomit. So then
Speaker 4: once I felt better, I had to go clean it up.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, So you had to then go and
Speaker 1: clean up your vomit and his vomit.
Speaker 3: You'd never kiss? Please tell me did you ever kiss
Speaker 3: this boy?
Speaker 5: We've kissed once.
Speaker 2: Since and both of you couldn't really get over the
Speaker 2: whole vomit saga.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he texted me after saying Semi wanted to kiss you,
Speaker 4: and I replied saying, knew that vomit was your kink.
Speaker 3: Sorry, just gets better and better, we Allso.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a funny question because we usually ask
Speaker 2: all of our guests for a little bit about their childhood,
Speaker 2: like what school did they go to? But asking that
Speaker 2: question is actually so fundamental and critical to your story.
Speaker 3: It is your story, It is part of your story.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about what it
Speaker 2: was like growing up, the school that you went to,
Speaker 2: and what that experience was like for you.
Speaker 4: So I grew up in Sin's Isn't Suburbs, which is
Speaker 4: a very privileged area of Australia, and I went to Kambala,
Speaker 4: which is a private school. And I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 4: as you said, it was very fundamental to a lot
Speaker 4: of the work I do, the kind of culture I
Speaker 4: experience in that environment, and yeah, I mean I had
Speaker 4: so much fun at school.
Speaker 5: I loved school, Like I.
Speaker 4: Actually went back the other day to give a talk
Speaker 4: of my old school, and I was walking through being like,
Speaker 4: can ovis this this is just these were the days,
Speaker 4: And yeah, I had the most amazing group of friends
Speaker 4: who are still all my best friends today, which I
Speaker 4: think is really special.
Speaker 1: It's because you've got no bills to pay and you
Speaker 1: don't have all these adult responsibilities.
Speaker 3: And you think life is so hard.
Speaker 1: At school, you're like, oh, I got a study for
Speaker 1: this exam real quick. But then and you want to
Speaker 1: grow up, Like I remember just being like I can't
Speaker 1: wait to finish school. I can't wait to get out
Speaker 1: into the world. And now I'm like, take me back,
Speaker 1: let me put me in your ten yeah, your math class,
Speaker 1: and just let.
Speaker 4: Me get and exactly, you have like a structured routine.
Speaker 4: You never have to think about what to do. You
Speaker 4: just like you get to hang out with your friends
Speaker 4: eight hours a day. I know, I talk a lot
Speaker 4: of bad things about single sex educational institutions, but being
Speaker 4: surrounded by just like amazing girls and women twenty four
Speaker 4: seven was such a privilege.
Speaker 1: So you were just so everybody knows you were at
Speaker 1: a same sex school. You're an all girls school. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And do you have like a sister so I you're
Speaker 1: talking to someone that grew up in a public school
Speaker 1: that was boys and girl so this is not my world.
Speaker 1: Do you have like a sister school, sister brother school
Speaker 1: that you sort of join up with for sports carnivals
Speaker 1: and things like that, like an all boys school. Is
Speaker 1: that how it works?
Speaker 4: Yes, so not for things like sports carnivals, but like
Speaker 4: random social events like the year six hodown and like
Speaker 4: your ten Mas.
Speaker 3: Dads welved down here. What was that line dance?
Speaker 4: It was literally line dancing, because it's like a safeway
Speaker 4: to like children interact without like dancing and touching each other.
Speaker 3: I had line dancing too. We had to wear the
Speaker 3: skirts and everything.
Speaker 2: I think that's so interesting because I feel like, even
Speaker 2: though I mean, you've been from the Eastern suburbs and
Speaker 2: going to an all girls school here, I had a
Speaker 2: very similar experience in that I went to an all
Speaker 2: girls school called Saint Mary's in Woollongong, and we had
Speaker 2: a school that we were associated with.
Speaker 3: It wasn't by any means.
Speaker 2: Like attached to each other. But we would do like
Speaker 2: our discos and stuff with it, and it was called
Speaker 2: edmund Rice. And I think that there are some interesting
Speaker 2: parts of your story and about the conversation we're going
Speaker 2: to get into that I think are echoed throughout a
Speaker 2: lot of private schools, not just and I guess that
Speaker 2: that's where this petition came from. But Janelle, can you
Speaker 2: talk to us a little bit about when you finished school?
Speaker 2: Because the petition that you lobbied for and your work
Speaker 2: that you've done didn't come immediately after school. So can
Speaker 2: you talk to me a little bit about what your
Speaker 2: experience was like and when was it that you started
Speaker 2: to have conversations with your girlfriends around consent, what that
Speaker 2: looked like, and maybe started to realize that the things
Speaker 2: that you learned in school weren't really marrying up.
Speaker 1: All the things you experienced in school weren't marrying.
Speaker 4: Up to So I like, the first time we ever
Speaker 4: spoke about consent was when we got our concent education.
Speaker 4: None of us had ever really thought of the concept before,
Speaker 4: none of us knew us sawing that needed to be attained.
Speaker 4: It was the same moment that many of me and
Speaker 4: my friends and me and myself as well, realized that
Speaker 4: those like bad experiences were actually acts of sexual assault,
Speaker 4: rape and violence. And yeah, that was a unique experience
Speaker 4: because none of us had to share stories of out
Speaker 4: sexual assault.
Speaker 5: To each other. We all knew them.
Speaker 4: We all knew these things as like almost gossip. But
Speaker 4: then suddenly it was portrayed and we had the language
Speaker 4: to be able to explain what happened. And I remember
Speaker 4: so clearly that lunchtime in the break between that consent
Speaker 4: education day we had, which by the way, we had
Speaker 4: far too late, and only because my school was a
Speaker 4: private school that had the flexibility to work out out
Speaker 4: of the Australian curriculum, and this is not something that
Speaker 4: everyone got. But yeah, that lunchtime in between that day,
Speaker 4: we were like, I remember all like throwing around how
Speaker 4: many years jail our perpetrators could get. Like we're like, oh,
Speaker 4: ma'm we get seven years, man would get fourteen, like
Speaker 4: depending on whether they sexually assaulted us or raped us
Speaker 4: digitally orally or vaginally, like all these different things, which
Speaker 4: is kind of testament to the type of conversation we
Speaker 4: had and how our concent education was framed. It wasn't
Speaker 4: very realistic at all. It wasn't as if, oh, someone
Speaker 4: sexually assaults you and they go to jail for this
Speaker 4: many years, because we know it's very obvious that's not
Speaker 4: true for most people. So that was kind of like
Speaker 4: the moment where I was like, oh, that's weird, And
Speaker 4: that really changed I think me and a lot of
Speaker 4: my friend's frameworks about all these things that had happened
Speaker 4: to us and what was happening on weekends, and also
Speaker 4: potentially where we felt more empowered to kind of start
Speaker 4: calling out behavior or believing each other more or like
Speaker 4: all these different things. But yeah, there was quite a
Speaker 4: delay until years later in so I graduated twenty fifteen,
Speaker 4: and then in twenty twenty, me and three friends basically
Speaker 4: started like sharing stories of sexual assault with each other
Speaker 4: and just had like unlimited ones to share not only
Speaker 4: that it had happened to usk, but to people we knew,
Speaker 4: and we knew both the victims and the perpetrators, and
Speaker 4: that was kind of what we were talking about.
Speaker 5: We were like, how messed up is this that? Like
Speaker 5: this boy who we all know and.
Speaker 4: Socialize with and everyone's friends with and has a great
Speaker 4: job at an investment bank is like the guy who
Speaker 4: did this or blah blah blah. And that's when I
Speaker 4: started collecting my first few testimonies. But I didn't take
Speaker 4: it to social media. I just like texted my friends
Speaker 4: individually who I knew had been raped and asked them
Speaker 4: to kind of like send me in stories. Yeah, when
Speaker 4: I was studying my masters, so I did masters in
Speaker 4: gender education and international Development. And the more I learned
Speaker 4: about I guess, gender in the education system, sexual coersion
Speaker 4: in young people, gender norms, all these things, it's just
Speaker 4: increasingly like, wow, this is strange, and to me there
Speaker 4: was this massive hypocrisy that I wanted to expose. And
Speaker 4: the fact that you think that going to a private
Speaker 4: school in Australia is going to mean that you're going
Speaker 4: to have a safe education experience, but actually it quite
Speaker 4: the opposite. That started kind of getting me thinking about
Speaker 4: this being the cush probably do some research into this.
Speaker 4: And then the final catalyst was one of my good
Speaker 4: friends who I witnessed and stopped their sexual assault when
Speaker 4: we were fifteen, but none of us ever thought about it.
Speaker 4: We didn't talk about it the day after. It wasn't
Speaker 4: even anything. We only realized in that consent talk, that
Speaker 4: it counted as sexual assault and that it was illegal.
Speaker 4: They started going to therapy and basically started getting flashbacks
Speaker 4: to this moment and we started talking about it, and
Speaker 4: I was just like, we are here years and years later,
Speaker 4: you were crying about the situation and he doesn't even
Speaker 4: know he's done this to you, And the boy who
Speaker 4: did it to me doesn't even know he's done this
Speaker 4: to me, And to me, that was just like the
Speaker 4: epitome of the injustice, Like, not only are we being
Speaker 4: soctually assaulted in mass as a community, there are also
Speaker 4: people who are sexually assaulting people without knowing with you know,
Speaker 4: just ignorance and being products of the society.
Speaker 2: Wherein when we talk about this, like taking you back
Speaker 2: a little bit in that conversation, so being in school
Speaker 2: when you did start to learn about consent or when
Speaker 2: consent came up as part of you know, your school curriculum.
Speaker 3: What year was that.
Speaker 4: In So it happened I think late year ten, and
Speaker 4: it was a one day talk, which at the time
Speaker 4: we thought was the best thing in the world, and
Speaker 4: in hindsight was like so problematic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess also like the important part of
Speaker 2: that is is like, how old were you when like
Speaker 2: the school started interacting with each other when you've already
Speaker 2: experienced what sexual assault is, and then you have context
Speaker 2: around what that is because somebody's told you this is
Speaker 2: what consent is, but you've never been taught at prior.
Speaker 2: Just so I have a bit of an idea and
Speaker 2: the listeners have a bit of an idea the experiences
Speaker 2: that you had had going to this all girls school
Speaker 2: at what year did that start?
Speaker 4: So for me, I was thirteen, so I was in
Speaker 4: year eight and yeah, that seemed to be like a
Speaker 4: pretty common age when this sort of stuff started happening.
Speaker 4: I speak at schools a lot in the UK, and
Speaker 4: it's almost as if, like that twelve thirteen age group,
Speaker 4: you're speaking to them and you're kind of getting feedback
Speaker 4: of like lots of kind of shock from the people
Speaker 4: we were speaking to a little bit been like, oh,
Speaker 4: we haven't really heard of these concepts before, this isn't
Speaker 4: entirely relevant to us yet, blah blah blah, And then
Speaker 4: you speak to them one year later, you're speaking to
Speaker 4: the fourteen to fifteen year old and every single time,
Speaker 4: why didn't you tell us this? Like why isn't this earlier.
Speaker 4: Why wasn't this before? It's too late, And I feel
Speaker 4: like that, like really pivotal transition year in those early
Speaker 4: teens is when things just kind of really kick off
Speaker 4: for a lot of people. So it's really important to
Speaker 4: get it in before that. But we were getting it
Speaker 4: away after the fact. They gave us o consent talk
Speaker 4: when the majority of the year group was sixteen, which
Speaker 4: means we were legally allowed to consent to sex. But
Speaker 4: that seems pretty stupid to me because it's after the fact.
Speaker 1: I honestly like I have been racking my brain trying
Speaker 1: to think back. And I'm a bit older than you,
Speaker 1: but I've been racking my brain trying to think back
Speaker 1: if we had that talk at all in like our
Speaker 1: pe and sex education, and I genuinely don't remember ever
Speaker 1: having a conversation about consent. It was only ever, don't
Speaker 1: get pregnant, this is how you wear a condom, don't
Speaker 1: have sex. That was pretty much it. And so I
Speaker 1: feel like we've come a long way with the help
Speaker 1: of people like yourself. But I know because I have
Speaker 1: read and I know the story, but I know there
Speaker 1: is quite a pivotal story, a fundamental story with something
Speaker 1: that happened to your friend that you were obviously involved in.
Speaker 1: Are you happy to share that on the podcast now?
Speaker 1: It sort of sets the scene as to what really
Speaker 1: pushed you and your drive to get these changes that friend.
Speaker 4: I was talking about that last conversation when I was
Speaker 4: speaking to them and they were crying, and that experience
Speaker 4: for them was. Yeah, we were fourteen fifteen or something
Speaker 4: at a house party and essentially walked into a room
Speaker 4: because one of my friends came up to me and
Speaker 4: was like, have you seen you know our friends missing?
Speaker 4: Like we are they all these people were huddled around
Speaker 4: a door and we kind of like pushed through to
Speaker 4: the front and our friend was like topless on the bed,
Speaker 4: pants pulled down, boy on top of them, belt undone,
Speaker 4: you know, everything out And yeah, I remember one of
Speaker 4: my friends like pushing our other friend off the bed
Speaker 4: so no one could see her boobs because everyone was watching.
Speaker 4: And then a room full of people, so again it's
Speaker 4: just a testament to the normalization of this behavior. Completely
Speaker 4: watching bystanders to this, and then me and my friends
Speaker 4: who stopped it, got booed out of the party and
Speaker 4: got called cock box by one of the like girls
Speaker 4: at the party. They again like just testament to what
Speaker 4: that meant. Our friend was completely unconscious, like completely limb
Speaker 4: when they fell off the bed. And Yeah, we left
Speaker 4: that party being annoyed that we got boot out of
Speaker 4: it more than thinking oh, we're just we're to crime.
Speaker 4: None of us ever really spoke about it again until
Speaker 4: we got that consent talk and we're like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: that was That's what that was.
Speaker 2: I read your story and you were saying when you
Speaker 2: when you left the party, there was like not really
Speaker 2: like you just said this understanding of what had just happened,
Speaker 2: that not understanding that this was constituting sexual assault. And
Speaker 2: so months go by or years go by. How do
Speaker 2: you then process when you do discover you become an adult,
Speaker 2: you understand what sexual assault is, you understand what rape is.
Speaker 3: To then look back on.
Speaker 2: An experience and go, that happened to my friend and
Speaker 2: I was witnessed to that, how do you then compartmentalize that?
Speaker 3: How do you work through that?
Speaker 4: I mean, that's really weird. And the thing is, I
Speaker 4: think like, over the last year, I've had hundreds of
Speaker 4: people tell me that they've gone through that experience. You know,
Speaker 4: I've been told that they I've had fully grown women
Speaker 4: told me they didn't realize that their experience is counter
Speaker 4: sexual assault or rape until these kind of intricacyears were
Speaker 4: drawn out about what consent looks like in a more
Speaker 4: public domain. And it's weird, Like, hindsight realization that you've
Speaker 4: been sexually assaulted is a really weird thing, because you
Speaker 4: also feel like a lot of agency has taken off you.
Speaker 5: It's not as if you have.
Speaker 4: The opportunity to, you know, if you did want to
Speaker 4: report it, go and get a rape kit, or it's
Speaker 4: not as if you have the opportunity to remember exactly
Speaker 4: what happened in that night in detail when you find
Speaker 4: out about this thing, yeah, months, years, decades later.
Speaker 5: But it was really strange.
Speaker 4: But it was also kind of like I remember in
Speaker 4: the consent talk, having the hindsight realization that what happened
Speaker 4: to me when I was thirteen counted as rape was
Speaker 4: almost empowering in a way because it was a little
Speaker 4: bit of validating to be like, Okay, I felt really
Speaker 4: weird about that, and all of society told me I
Speaker 4: shouldn't have felt weird about that, but no, I'm actually
Speaker 4: entitled to feel weird about that.
Speaker 5: But I don't know.
Speaker 4: It's very overwhelming, and it's pretty heartbreaking as well. Again
Speaker 4: kind of the epitome of the injustice of what our
Speaker 4: education system has done so far that there's also been
Speaker 4: lots of people who have had the high sight realization
Speaker 4: that they've perpetrated sexual assault.
Speaker 1: It really does highlight and I feel like it's almost
Speaker 1: like where do you begin. It really does highlight the
Speaker 1: fact that there were so many people watching on but
Speaker 1: this didn't even raise a flag that what was happening
Speaker 1: was a problem. And then the throwaway comment from another
Speaker 1: female that you girls are cock blockers because you literally
Speaker 1: stopped a rape. When was it that your like, did
Speaker 1: your friend know what had happened? Did you guys ever
Speaker 1: talk about it? Did you explain to her what had happened,
Speaker 1: or was it something that you thought, oh, it's better
Speaker 1: she doesn't know if you know, if she was unconscious
Speaker 1: because and this is just because you didn't have the
Speaker 1: education around it. What did the foreseeable future look like
Speaker 1: after that event?
Speaker 4: I mean I barely remember. It was so insignificant. I
Speaker 4: think we all had to sleepover that night and the
Speaker 4: next morning we're probably like, oh my god, you were
Speaker 4: so drunk last night and this kind of happened, like
Speaker 4: I don't know, speaking to them about it, I guess
Speaker 4: they said it was I was. Actually I was speaking
Speaker 4: to the other friend who stopped this with me the
Speaker 4: other day actually, and we were saying how horrible we
Speaker 4: feel that we never addressed it. Yeah, it was just sleef,
Speaker 4: completely unaddressed. And when I confided in my friends about
Speaker 4: my experience with sexual assault, it was just kind of
Speaker 4: like a yeah, that's what older boys do. It wasn't
Speaker 4: a yeah, it's just complete ignorance from all angles, which
Speaker 4: is also why we can't really like there's not really
Speaker 4: anyone we can blame for this situation. It's since a
Speaker 4: culture we've created.
Speaker 2: So now this was like the huge catalyst for your
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one petition, And now when you started this,
Speaker 2: it was it wasn't even a petition at the start.
Speaker 2: It was just a poll that you put up on
Speaker 2: Instagram on social media. Can you talk us through a
Speaker 2: little bit about what the poll was and how you
Speaker 2: use this.
Speaker 4: So a person Instagram poll only enough. I was actually
Speaker 4: going to tag the boy who did it to my
Speaker 4: friend and the boy who did it to me. Oh
Speaker 4: thank god, I didn't on my story, But I.
Speaker 1: Mean, why do you say now just out of curiosity,
Speaker 1: why do you say thank god you didn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that it's not something you don't want to
Speaker 1: publicly do, but is there was there a part of
Speaker 1: you that's like, oh, it's gotten so big now I
Speaker 1: would have hated for people to have known who did
Speaker 1: it or what stems from that.
Speaker 4: Ah, defamation. I don't know what defamation was before this
Speaker 4: petition and since have my first share of encounters with defamation, right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: which is such a shame and such a silencing of
Speaker 4: the Australian legal system of women and victims in general.
Speaker 1: Well, just showing that the victim is a person that's
Speaker 1: been silenced here, Like the problem is you're trying to say, hey,
Speaker 1: you're trying to add a rapist and the person that's
Speaker 1: getting into trouble is yourself the victim.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I can imagine trying to prove that eight
Speaker 4: ten years after the fact, Like it's kind of laughable
Speaker 4: to think ever even bothering to try and go through
Speaker 4: the criminal system for any sort of justice or accountability
Speaker 4: for my perpetrator. And also because it was it's bigger
Speaker 4: than that like, my whole point was that this happens
Speaker 4: to everyone, and acting as if it was just two
Speaker 4: boys doing this would have actually been quite kind of
Speaker 4: productive in hindsight, even though I was really angry at
Speaker 4: the time and really wanted to, you know, expose them
Speaker 4: and then to feel negative emotions of a sort, I guess,
Speaker 4: and I guess I'm a vindictive way, but this whole
Speaker 4: thing is about structures and changing scapegoating two people, and
Speaker 4: that would have almost been counterproductive because then people can
Speaker 4: think that they're not part of the problem.
Speaker 2: And I think as well, on top of that, like
Speaker 2: these are children doing it to each other, and children
Speaker 2: who haven't necessarily as much as we say as women,
Speaker 2: we weren't educated on what consent is. I think there's
Speaker 2: a huge lacking for boys and for men to have
Speaker 2: been educated. So in a lot of ways, the system
Speaker 2: has failed them just as much as it has failed
Speaker 2: the women. And I'm not saying that there is an
Speaker 2: excuse that means that this behavior is acceptable, but I
Speaker 2: would hope that there are some men who have grown
Speaker 2: who now look back on that behavior that they may
Speaker 2: have done when they were in year eight or year
Speaker 2: nine or year ten and go maybe they don't even
Speaker 2: remember it, or they're like, holy shit, I can't believe
Speaker 2: that I had done that, you know, And as they're mortified,
Speaker 2: you would hope, you know. But I just think that, like,
Speaker 2: if this conversation wasn't happening amongst girls and with women,
Speaker 2: and that they weren't identifying that they had been raped,
Speaker 2: and as you kind of mentioned earlier, there would be
Speaker 2: a whole group of men in this conversation who probably
Speaker 2: at the time didn't identify what they were doing either.
Speaker 5: One hundred percent.
Speaker 4: And can guarantee that is the case because of dozens
Speaker 4: of conversations I've had and many many messages I've received
Speaker 4: saying that exact same thing.
Speaker 1: So what were the results of the poll? You've popped
Speaker 1: this poll up? You didn't tag the men of the boys.
Speaker 1: But what happened from then?
Speaker 4: So I ended up asking instead of calling out two people,
Speaker 4: I ended up asking, have you or has anyone close
Speaker 4: to you ever been sexually assaulted by someone who went
Speaker 4: to a single sex school in Sydney? And it was
Speaker 4: I think seventy three or seventy four percent yes. And
Speaker 4: this was just to my immediate Instagram following at the time,
Speaker 4: which was not at all large, and I think that
Speaker 4: was like two hundred and three people saying yes, something
Speaker 4: like that, two hundred and four people saying yes. Then
Speaker 4: the next poll was if you went to a single
Speaker 4: sex school in Sydney, do you think one of your
Speaker 4: friends has ever sexually assaulted someone? And the numbers for
Speaker 4: yes on that were way lower, which was kind of
Speaker 4: like proved my point. And then my next thing was
Speaker 4: would you be willing to sign a petition to demand
Speaker 4: for better consider education? And then would you be willing
Speaker 4: to submit testimonies to amplify the desperate need for this.
Speaker 4: After that happened, they just like started coming in this
Speaker 4: soone coming in slowly, and then after about twenty four hours,
Speaker 4: my dams couldn't even reload that they were coming in
Speaker 4: so quickly.
Speaker 5: I couldn't even read them and post them.
Speaker 2: Well, you now have six seven hundred and fifty six
Speaker 2: testimonies on your website from women who have been sexually assaulted,
Speaker 2: and you have forty four thousand, seven hundred and ninety
Speaker 2: eight signatures. I mean, that's harrowing in itself, but it's
Speaker 2: absolutely unbelievable that the amount something that started off as
Speaker 2: a social media poll, and where you say you put
Speaker 2: out there to say, like let's see what we can
Speaker 2: get or let's see what other women have been affected
Speaker 2: by this, that there is an absolute army out there
Speaker 2: of women who've experienced the same thing that you have.
Speaker 2: What did you hope at the time when you actually
Speaker 2: set out to do this, to achieve from that poll
Speaker 2: or to achieve from doing this petition?
Speaker 3: What was the original goal?
Speaker 4: So my original flight again, like I just posed this
Speaker 4: to manage the Instagram following. I never thought about the
Speaker 4: fact that people beyond that would kind of see it.
Speaker 4: And my plan was to get all these old schools
Speaker 4: in this kind of ecosystem of Synese and some of
Speaker 4: the schools that all interact with each other or friends
Speaker 4: with each other.
Speaker 5: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: I basically one of my old school and the nearby
Speaker 4: schools to teach concenter education earlier and better. And I
Speaker 4: mean literally, if I had could have gotten my school
Speaker 4: and the kind of two brotherish schools nearby to start
Speaker 4: doing that, I would have been pretty satisfied. The thing
Speaker 4: with single sex schools is their private institutions, and private
Speaker 4: institutions have resources to get in external speakers and they
Speaker 4: have flexibility to work outside of the school curriculum, And
Speaker 4: it never for a second crossed my mind that it
Speaker 4: would be able to using the power of the tens
Speaker 4: of thousands who signed the petition, have the chance to
Speaker 4: work at this at a state or federal level. So
Speaker 4: it just didn't cross my mind that I could ever
Speaker 4: kind of have any sort of influence in the public
Speaker 4: school system.
Speaker 3: Now, can you you touched on it?
Speaker 2: We've spoken about a little bit, but I think it's
Speaker 2: so important to define what it is. Can you explain
Speaker 2: to the listeners what is rape culture?
Speaker 4: So rape culture is a setting where our attitudes to
Speaker 4: gender and sexuality and our expectations of them lead to
Speaker 4: a situation where sexual violence and rape become normalized. When
Speaker 4: I say that, some people find that quite extreme and
Speaker 4: dramatic and think like, oh, we don't normalize rape.
Speaker 5: No one, no one approves a rapist.
Speaker 4: But when you actually break down and start thinking about it,
Speaker 4: you know, instead of things like a cat calling is
Speaker 4: a pretty common experience for people in Australia, especially women.
Speaker 4: That's a form of sexual harassment that I don't think
Speaker 4: has that again language equipped to it in the public eye.
Speaker 4: You know, all these kind of little things. Rape jokes
Speaker 4: are really common. This kind of expectation of male sexual
Speaker 4: satisfaction being at the center of sexual interactions and such
Speaker 4: a dismissive view on female sexuality and how that should
Speaker 4: be played out often leads to situations where women can
Speaker 4: be extremely uncomfortable. And again, like our expectations about gender
Speaker 4: and sexuality, so like very strict, gentive norms about what
Speaker 4: women's role should be and what a man's role should be,
Speaker 4: and what this should look like in the bedroom, and
Speaker 4: you know, the massive the kind of constant discourse of like, oh,
Speaker 4: boys are going to chase you and that's okay, you
Speaker 4: just have to reject them, and not empowering women to
Speaker 4: have sexualities in their own right and actually taking any
Speaker 4: sort of like authority over that, and then at the
Speaker 4: same time normalizing situations where coercion becomes common and boundaries
Speaker 4: are constantly pushed and massive empathy out between girls and boys.
Speaker 4: It's kind of hard to summarize in a sentence, but
Speaker 4: it basically means that. I mean, if you look at
Speaker 4: statistics of not just reporting but criminalize it, like how
Speaker 4: many people who do report end up in jail in Australia,
Speaker 4: and how common this problem is. Again taking into account
Speaker 4: the insane rates of underreporting of sexual violence due to
Speaker 4: the lack of justice that often comes out of it,
Speaker 4: and the kind of lack of nuance understanding in that
Speaker 4: space and how it deals with it, we've essentially legalized
Speaker 4: rape in our society. Like I mean, I remember having
Speaker 4: a conversation. I was away with some friends, and I
Speaker 4: remember being out by the fire and for some reason,
Speaker 4: all the girls were inside of that station.
Speaker 5: It was just all the boys of me.
Speaker 4: And I remember saying to them, like, it's socially acceptable
Speaker 4: to rape someone. And they're all like, that's absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 4: It's like they're all disagreeing and meah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: And I was literally like to them, I can name
Speaker 4: you ten people right now of your friends who you
Speaker 4: socialize with, whoever raped someone. And I can't name a
Speaker 4: single person who's ever gone to jail for this that
Speaker 4: we know.
Speaker 5: And then I did.
Speaker 4: I name ten boys that were the year above them,
Speaker 4: year below them, mutual friends at nearby schools, and they
Speaker 4: were all just like sitting there, stunted, and I was like,
Speaker 4: can you name me a single person who's ever gone
Speaker 4: to jail for rape and you all hang out with
Speaker 4: these people, you all say hello to them. They've never
Speaker 4: been excluded from any sort of social event. It is
Speaker 4: completely socially acceptable to be a rapist in our society,
Speaker 4: and that's the epitome of rape culture.
Speaker 1: Was the response from the boys around this fire that
Speaker 1: you're that you're saying, okay, look all these are your
Speaker 1: friends that are associates that have raped someone? Was their response?
Speaker 3: Shock?
Speaker 1: Disbelief? Did they say you were lying? There's no way.
Speaker 1: Do you think that they knew at a certain level? Like,
Speaker 1: what was the response in that moment?
Speaker 4: They didn't say you were lying? I mean, yeah, these
Speaker 4: are my close friends, so they obviously like trusted me
Speaker 4: and believed me and I had there was no agenda.
Speaker 4: There's no point of me to just randomly make up
Speaker 4: ten names. They would have known many of the stories
Speaker 4: I were I was talking about. I think it was
Speaker 4: probably mainly shocked, but more perspective, I think I think
Speaker 4: it would have been like a oh, but I mean,
Speaker 4: out of them alter their behavior. I haven't seen anyone
Speaker 4: be socially ostracized for this, and which is actually an
Speaker 4: interesting one because when you think about how common this
Speaker 4: is and how many people have perpetrated a sexual assault.
Speaker 4: It's actually not feasible to genuinely ostracize every single person
Speaker 4: who has sexually assaulted someone. I think the focus should actually,
Speaker 4: given what you said before about the boys and men
Speaker 4: not knowing and it not being fair on them as
Speaker 4: well to perpetrate this, the focus in like hindsight should
Speaker 4: actually be more on is accountability being taken, acknowledgment, apology,
Speaker 4: what are they doing now going forward? How do they
Speaker 4: treat people around them now going forward? Because it actually
Speaker 4: if every rapist in Australia just like click of the
Speaker 4: fingers disappeared right now, our whole would collapse.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's very culture.
Speaker 2: I just speak from like my experiences, for not when
Speaker 2: I was a teenager and I started going to parties.
Speaker 2: I mean I remember being at a party and there
Speaker 2: was a girl passed out in a bathroom or way
Speaker 2: too drunk to be able to be having sex with
Speaker 2: the guy.
Speaker 3: I don't know whether she was past that or not,
Speaker 3: but there was like, oh, but.
Speaker 2: They were hooking up earlier in the night, so like
Speaker 2: obviously it was like consensual. Now understanding as an adult
Speaker 2: and really understanding what consent is that that's not fucking consensual.
Speaker 2: But at the time, because they had been hooking up
Speaker 2: earlier in the night, there was to everybody there that
Speaker 2: that was kind of just what was going to happen.
Speaker 2: It was a bit, yeah, they're together tonight, Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: their thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's only with the lens of retrospect that I
Speaker 2: look at that experience when I think I would have
Speaker 2: been fifteen or sixteen, and I go, wow, that's that
Speaker 2: was fucked, absolutely fucked. Like I haven't seen the girl
Speaker 2: in almost twenty years, do you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 2: that's how long ago that experience is for me.
Speaker 1: But I even have friends now, in conversation still as grown, intelligent,
Speaker 1: mature women that will say that they're in a situation.
Speaker 1: I actually had this conversation four nights ago with a
Speaker 1: friend and she's like, she ran into the guy and
Speaker 1: she got a little bit triggered, and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you okay. She's like, yeah, long story short. She's like,
Speaker 1: I had sex with him, but I didn't want to.
Speaker 1: I was like, what why. She's like, Oh, it was
Speaker 1: just there.
Speaker 3: It was in the moment.
Speaker 1: It was easier to just do it than not. And
Speaker 1: she's like it was almost like she didn't want to
Speaker 1: cause a scene. And I just had this feeling, and
Speaker 1: of course I knew we were speaking to you, and
Speaker 1: I just had this feeling of how many women out
Speaker 1: there don't realize that just because you've gotten to the
Speaker 1: point that you're in the bedroom, like and we've said
Speaker 1: it before on the podcast, you could have his penis
Speaker 1: inside you and change your mind. And that is a
Speaker 1: change of consent. And that is something that obviously women
Speaker 1: still need to learn as well as men too, that
Speaker 1: it's not causing a scene. You're entitled to change your
Speaker 1: mind at any time, and that consent changes.
Speaker 4: There's some really interesting studies on when they were trying
Speaker 4: to like stop like when they were measuring sexual assault
Speaker 4: and rape and China site to encount sexual coercion and
Speaker 4: all this sort of and sticks they started changing language
Speaker 4: and surveys to pressurize sex or for sex instead of rape,
Speaker 4: and like race skyrocketed because people felt much more comfortable
Speaker 4: associating with that description than they would the word rape.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think sometimes because rape, we think that
Speaker 2: it has to have violence attached to it. It has
Speaker 2: to be like like you're walking down a dark alley
Speaker 2: and a guy drags you into a corner. You were
Speaker 2: completely sober and you screened no. Like we have grown
Speaker 2: up with a very fixed version of what that is.
Speaker 2: But over time, and I know the conversations I've been
Speaker 2: seeing happening more so in the media, like what you're
Speaker 2: doing within schools, the conversation around what actually constitutes consent
Speaker 2: has been a lot more defined for people to be
Speaker 2: able to see where they stand within that conversation.
Speaker 1: So how did it go from your Instagram with a
Speaker 1: couple hundred people poll to just your school to you
Speaker 1: literally now changing the curriculum around Australia, around the country,
Speaker 1: because congratulations, that is huge. I remember when the petition
Speaker 1: came out. I signed it, I find it, I shared it,
Speaker 1: and I always thought about it.
Speaker 3: On the way.
Speaker 1: We were like this girl, I mean like, we're like,
Speaker 1: how incredible is this? This young girl is making these
Speaker 1: huge waves and we took our hat off to you.
Speaker 1: But how did you get from just this girl in
Speaker 1: a room being like, fuck you, I'm putting you on
Speaker 1: my gram to changing the way schools teach?
Speaker 3: Because it's huge.
Speaker 4: I think it just happened because of how many people
Speaker 4: started supporting it. And getting behind it and sharing it
Speaker 4: on social media and signing the petition and having conversations
Speaker 4: with principals and friends and family and parents and everyone.
Speaker 4: I think it was literally just like the masses that
Speaker 4: pushed it into that space, which just meant like, slowly
Speaker 4: and incrementally, I kept meeting with people and higher and
Speaker 4: hire positions of power, and the reason they were accepting
Speaker 4: this meetings was because of public pressure being put on
Speaker 4: by mainly young women on Instagram, which is pretty phenomenal,
Speaker 4: I think, to the point of, you know, finally meeting
Speaker 4: with the Prime Minister of Australia to have this sort
Speaker 4: of conversation and yeah, education ministers from around the country
Speaker 4: like slowly one by one getting in contact with them,
Speaker 4: working with them. But yeah, I really just give us
Speaker 4: because it was the masses that pushed this into a
Speaker 4: public priority of political priority.
Speaker 1: You were like, oly, shit, I don't have a choice. Now,
Speaker 1: You're like, this is my this is is what I'm doing.
Speaker 4: Gotta do this, Yeah, and it jumped really quickly. It's
Speaker 4: my Instagram pot was like sitting a single sex education whatever.
Speaker 4: And then as soon as I realized that testimonies were
Speaker 4: coming in from everywhere, and I thought like, oh, maybe
Speaker 4: this could be something more. The launch of the website
Speaker 4: was for Australia wide, so the petition of the website
Speaker 4: was all schools in Australia, So it was a very
Speaker 4: quick like oh, we've got people on this, let's do it.
Speaker 2: I also feel like twenty twenty one has been it
Speaker 2: was like a real year for shift in perception. It
Speaker 2: was like a year of reckoning when it comes to
Speaker 2: sexual assault survivors and the sexual assault conversation. You know,
Speaker 2: we had Britney Higgins, We've had Grace Tame being Australian
Speaker 2: of the Year, and then we've had your incredible changes
Speaker 2: in legislation around consent conversation in schools. Why do you
Speaker 2: think that this has all come to a head at
Speaker 2: the same time, Like, what do you think has happened
Speaker 2: that in twenty twenty one has really forced the conversation
Speaker 2: around sexual assault survivors to the forefront of not just
Speaker 2: media but also in politics.
Speaker 4: I think that I mean, obviously we've been this has
Speaker 4: built off decades and decades of work in this space,
Speaker 4: like centuries, you know, a lot of it spearheaded by
Speaker 4: intersexually marginalized communities like women of color.
Speaker 5: I think there was just like a good.
Speaker 4: Interaction between Grace and Brittany and teacher's consent showing you know,
Speaker 4: this is a problem that stands all the way from
Speaker 4: school kids, all the way to Parliament, all the intrincies
Speaker 4: in between. It's an abuse of power that crosses generations.
Speaker 4: It's abuse of power that's peer on peer. It's a
Speaker 4: beuti and power that's in the workplace. And I think
Speaker 4: that just kind of like kept it at the forefront.
Speaker 1: Well, you're right that this has been a fight that's
Speaker 1: been going on for decades and centuries. That's absolutely right,
Speaker 1: and I don't think anything has changed in that sense.
Speaker 1: There's always been women finding for these rights, but now
Speaker 1: to have oam well now and as much as we
Speaker 1: can be against social media, things like social media help
Speaker 1: this situation.
Speaker 3: So what does consent look like?
Speaker 1: What does the new curriculum thing to you look like?
Speaker 4: So it's not a public document yet, but it basically
Speaker 4: starts teaching consent and young as kindergarten in a non
Speaker 4: sexual way, asking for permission, denying permission, help seeking strategies,
Speaker 4: and then slowly builds all this information and so finally
Speaker 4: sexual consent is explicitly addressed in the early years of
Speaker 4: high school rather than well, actually before it wasn't in
Speaker 4: that curriculum at all, but yeah, nine and ten. Way,
Speaker 4: if schools choose to do it, they usually put it
Speaker 4: in the end of your ten brings in concepts such
Speaker 4: as power and gender and age to understand the intricacies
Speaker 4: of consent more holy.
Speaker 2: How do you attack the conversations around virginity in schools
Speaker 2: in terms of, like, my, not even consent conversations, but
Speaker 2: sex conversations at school it was.
Speaker 3: All around virginity.
Speaker 2: How is that then factored into this conversation of consent?
Speaker 4: Virgin is an interesting one because virgion is also a
Speaker 4: core concept that plays into rape culture because it puts
Speaker 4: a lot of value on a first sexual experience and
Speaker 4: what that of physically has, because virginity is a social construct.
Speaker 4: But we like imagine it as like, oh, it's when
Speaker 4: your cherry pops, you know, when you're hoymemen breaks, But
Speaker 4: really that happens, you know, that can happen doing anything.
Speaker 5: That can happen.
Speaker 4: Exercising it can happen, horse riding, it can happen, using
Speaker 4: a tampon. It can happen getting fingered whatever, but we
Speaker 4: associate that with virginity. But ironically there is then no
Speaker 4: way of testing virginity in males, so virginity is actually
Speaker 4: quite a hefty policing tool on female bodies to like
Speaker 4: a different extent. And again it's this like strange idea
Speaker 4: of like virginity and purity and acting as if having
Speaker 4: any sort of control of your own sexuality is something
Speaker 4: to be ashamed of and it's something that you're meant
Speaker 4: to like hide and keep and save for someone, you know.
Speaker 4: I read testimonies of people saying that their sex set
Speaker 4: included like sticking a piece of sticky tape on three
Speaker 4: different surfaces and seeing how dirty it got and how
Speaker 4: it wasn't sticky anymore, and no one's ever going to
Speaker 4: be able to love you anymore because you don't have
Speaker 4: the stickiness after you've slept with people before them, Like, ah,
Speaker 4: it's insane, insane. Stuff doesn't surprise me at all, Like,
Speaker 4: I mean, absence is still taught in many schools. My
Speaker 4: mom personally was always like really worried about my virginity
Speaker 4: and would like constantly make sure that you know, there
Speaker 4: was never any conversations about positives.
Speaker 5: Sex.
Speaker 4: It was always about like abstinence preventative. Yes, it's a
Speaker 4: really weird thing because it's also just kind of like
Speaker 4: it's not a defining moment of someone's being to have
Speaker 4: something inserted in you, So like why are we putting
Speaker 4: so much social pressure on that? And why is there
Speaker 4: so much pressure to pick when that happens or how
Speaker 4: it's done.
Speaker 2: No, And I agree, And I just think back to
Speaker 2: like the conversations that we had in school around sex education,
Speaker 2: which was done in PA.
Speaker 3: From memory, it was one class.
Speaker 1: And it had a banana.
Speaker 3: We didn't even have that.
Speaker 2: It was just it was one class in PA, and
Speaker 2: it was around not getting pregnant. It was around all
Speaker 2: the STIs thought that you could catch. There was nothing
Speaker 2: positive about the conversation of sexual experiences. And there was
Speaker 2: nothing around taking agency of your own body. It was
Speaker 2: all around preventing it from happening for as long as possible.
Speaker 1: But this is this brings us to another part of
Speaker 1: the conversation. And but hats off to my mom my mum,
Speaker 1: I remember her. It was never negative. Obviously, it was
Speaker 1: like a you know, sex can leave to pregnancy, You're
Speaker 1: not going to really want that as a teenager or
Speaker 1: when you have sex. But I remember her just saying
Speaker 1: sitting me down and saying, I know what she's like,
Speaker 1: I was a teenager once I had a boyfriend. She's like,
Speaker 1: I know that there is nothing that I can do
Speaker 1: or say that's going to stop you from having sex
Speaker 1: when you want to have sex. All I can ask
Speaker 1: is that you come to me when you do, and
Speaker 1: maybe we can go to the doctor and put you
Speaker 1: on the pill or you know. She was just very
Speaker 1: she was very not encouraging of having sex by any means,
Speaker 1: but she she was aware enough of teenagers situations. I
Speaker 1: was in a relationship, you know, I had this serious
Speaker 1: boyfriend of a year. She's like, I know it's going
Speaker 1: to come. I would rather you just come to me
Speaker 1: and tell me, and we'll make sure that you have
Speaker 1: condoms and you're on the pill and everything else that
Speaker 1: you need. So it was very positive, and that sort
Speaker 1: of takes us into this another conversation, and I know
Speaker 1: a lot of teachers there was a certain level of
Speaker 1: pushback from what I from my understanding, everyone he's on
Speaker 1: board with the consent conversation, but there were a lot
Speaker 1: a lot of people saying it's not up to the
Speaker 1: teachers constantly to be taking more on board. There have
Speaker 1: to be these conversations at home as well. Did you
Speaker 1: find a lot of pushback from teachers at all or
Speaker 1: was everyone just like a fuck, put it in, we'll
Speaker 1: just deal with.
Speaker 2: It, or I guess the other part of that that
Speaker 2: I would like to know as well is why is
Speaker 2: the onus for this to be taught in school so
Speaker 2: important rather than it to be taught at home.
Speaker 4: I don't know if I would call it pushback because
Speaker 4: most people who like, for example, feedback saying the school
Speaker 4: system is stressed enough, especially public school teachers, this is
Speaker 4: a whole other thing for them to do, blah blah
Speaker 4: blah blah. I still don't think anyone thought it was
Speaker 4: a bad idea to teach consent. They just again, that's
Speaker 4: kind of another comment on a different structure, that we're
Speaker 4: not putting enough value on education and funding teachers and
Speaker 4: like respecting that job more is highly valued in our society.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean the conversation of if parents would
Speaker 4: be having this absolutely like one hundred million percent, because
Speaker 4: that's really what's going to make the real difference, right,
Speaker 4: the way that parents are engaging with this sort of
Speaker 4: content at home because you know, they really shape you,
Speaker 4: have a large impact on your values. But the problem
Speaker 4: is we can't control how this is taught at home
Speaker 4: at all. There's millions of families around Australia. There's no
Speaker 4: way of standardizing that information anyway or making sure that
Speaker 4: it's the right information that's coming out. So you can
Speaker 4: hope for the best in that way and hope that
Speaker 4: parents are complementing what students are learning at home and
Speaker 4: hoping that there are parents like Gils Brittany who are
Speaker 4: having you know, open conversations with children to create like
Speaker 4: safe environments. But ultimately, the reason it was so important
Speaker 4: for me for this to be focused in the school
Speaker 4: system was because I just see education is such a
Speaker 4: transformative tool and Australia has so much potential in our
Speaker 4: education system that I thought, yeah, that's where it should focus,
Speaker 4: so that we know that every single Australian child from
Speaker 4: this age has been delivered this content and it's kind.
Speaker 5: Of like no more excuses of I didn't know.
Speaker 2: I have two little girls, And it fills me with
Speaker 2: so much like pride and hope and just gratitude that
Speaker 2: there has been changes in this because I think that
Speaker 2: even though so many of us recognize that this is
Speaker 2: thing that was lacking, I feel like all of us
Speaker 2: failed to put our finger on what that was, and
Speaker 2: all of us kind of failed prior to you, failed
Speaker 2: to really sit down and assess, well, why does this
Speaker 2: keep happening? Why has this been okay for so long?
Speaker 2: And why is this almost just like part and parcel
Speaker 2: of going through adolescence and being a teenager and then
Speaker 2: figuring out sex, Like why did these experiences keep on perpetuating?
Speaker 2: And I truly feel like the experiences that you've had
Speaker 2: in the school that you went to and the conversations
Speaker 2: you've had with your girlfriends are the real catalysts here
Speaker 2: that's made everybody.
Speaker 3: Else onlooking go.
Speaker 2: You've found the words for the things that we've all
Speaker 2: experienced in our upbringings as well. Thank you.
Speaker 5: That's right. I kind of feel like that's yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think concern education is something that women's
Speaker 4: organizations have been asking for for so long. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I think exposing exposing that culture and it's hard to
Speaker 4: question the norm, and that's the reality.
Speaker 5: Sexual violence was the norm for us.
Speaker 1: Chanelle. You did just recently a few weeks ago to
Speaker 1: meet with the Prime Minister Scott Morrison. What was that
Speaker 1: meaning for about and how did it go?
Speaker 4: So I try Minister Scott Morrison. Following the announcement that
Speaker 4: consent education would be moundated in Australia, which is something
Speaker 4: that he endorsed prior to that, which was great, I
Speaker 4: met with him to request funding for a national school survey.
Speaker 4: So I want to survey one hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 4: Australian high school students so that we have a better
Speaker 4: understanding of not just beliefs, attitudes and prevalence of sexual
Speaker 4: assault and consent and relationships and all that, but also
Speaker 4: measuring have you previously received concent education, what did that
Speaker 4: look like? That sort of thing, so that we can
Speaker 4: start measuring the impact of this kind of monumental change
Speaker 4: to the curriculum where it will not be taught in schools,
Speaker 4: so we could start making sure that it is being standardized,
Speaker 4: it is being rolled out, and understanding which sectors are
Speaker 4: lacking in it, which ones are doing well, and blah
Speaker 4: blah blah. And that was really successful because we got
Speaker 4: the funding. Our congratulations, five million dollars to the Australian
Speaker 4: Humans commission and I'll be a special advisor on that
Speaker 4: project was amazing and the other like.
Speaker 5: For most of the.
Speaker 4: Meeting, actually, I used it to kind of educate him
Speaker 4: about rape culture. So I spoke to Scott Morrisen about
Speaker 4: what rape culture was and what it looked like and
Speaker 4: some kind of key factors in it that contributed to that.
Speaker 2: Janelle, I have a question that's just going back a
Speaker 2: little bit, but in terms of the testimonies that you've collected,
Speaker 2: and we did say that you now have over six
Speaker 2: thousand testimonies from women who have experienced sexual assault, who
Speaker 2: have experienced rape in many cases, what do you do
Speaker 2: with those testimonies or how do you I mean, it
Speaker 2: must be such a huge tole reading through the things
Speaker 2: that other women have written sharing in their experiences.
Speaker 3: Like how do you process that?
Speaker 2: And what is the end goal with bringing and taking
Speaker 2: and collecting all of these testimonies.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess the goal was to emphasize the need
Speaker 4: for this education and amplify the petition. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: feel like I've definitely taken.
Speaker 5: On a lot of that.
Speaker 4: There's definitely lots of like vicarious traum I've experienced over
Speaker 4: the last year, especially last year when I actually stopped
Speaker 4: for a second, it like kind of all hit me
Speaker 4: because I think I can be like I'm fine and
Speaker 4: fade and keep reading them and can keep doing it
Speaker 4: that blah blah blah, and then when things slow down,
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, this is really fucked up. But
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I guess just channeling it into like
Speaker 4: wanting to change things, I guess. And then also I
Speaker 4: just feel like I have such a unique perception on
Speaker 4: what great culture looks like in Australia from these thousands
Speaker 4: of little snippets of people's lives of their experience in it,
Speaker 4: which I'm really thankful for. And I just feel like
Speaker 4: I'm at all times and over I'm like in a
Speaker 4: room with like a politician or a decision maker, a policymaker, whatever,
Speaker 4: I just like I'm thinking of all these little stories
Speaker 4: I've read before and thinking about how something would be
Speaker 4: good or bad for that experience for that person, And
Speaker 4: it's just kind of like almost having like a little
Speaker 4: six thousand survivors in my head at all times.
Speaker 1: It's a huge toll that I think it's a fact
Speaker 1: that a lot of people probably don't think about that
Speaker 1: you've taken on over the last couple of years. And
Speaker 1: I do hope that you are looking after yourself as well,
Speaker 1: because you can't just look after everyone else all the time.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a true saying, you need to
Speaker 1: take the oxygen mask for yourself first so you can
Speaker 1: help someone else. What are we going to see next
Speaker 1: for you? Have you got plans to continue taking over
Speaker 1: the world or what is it?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I mean the survey, I hope that. I hope
Speaker 4: we have the results of that as soon as possible
Speaker 4: before consider education is meant to stop being implemented in Australia,
Speaker 4: which I think will be. I think we're going to
Speaker 4: find some jarring things out of that. I mean, I
Speaker 4: don't think I'm going to be surprised by what we
Speaker 4: found out of it, but I think the general population
Speaker 4: will I'm sure lots of women won't be and young
Speaker 4: teenage girls and yeah, then also teacher's Consent will be
Speaker 4: working with our watch to create consent education resources for
Speaker 4: those kind of like few little changes in the curriculum
Speaker 4: that we got added in. And then I'm also meant
Speaker 4: to be going and working at the Australian Institute, so
Speaker 4: I'm going to be launching a Center for Sex and
Speaker 4: Gender Equality there hopefully continue to working towards more structural,
Speaker 4: high level transformative change and like more wider policies like
Speaker 4: things of the pay gap and all that sort of stuff,
Speaker 4: because I mean, sexual assult is just a manifestation of
Speaker 4: gender inequality. But all those structures interact with each other,
Speaker 4: and when you're fixing something that makes gender equality, you know,
Speaker 4: progressive gender equality you're fixing, it's interacting with everything else.
Speaker 1: We are one hundred percent going to have to get
Speaker 1: you back on. There are so many more things we
Speaker 1: can talk about, but Chanelle Kontoss, you have done absolutely
Speaker 1: inspirational and incredible things and I just feel like on
Speaker 1: behalf of every single woman in Australia, we want to
Speaker 1: thank you for what you have done. And I hope
Speaker 1: you realize the impact that you have had because it's
Speaker 1: probably easy for you to sit back and think it's
Speaker 1: just for you. It's a day to day job, it's
Speaker 1: a nine to five today, I'm going to do this,
Speaker 1: But you have made such a monumental impact in the
Speaker 1: way we're going to move forward, the way we view
Speaker 1: consent and sexual assault. So from the bottom of our hearts,
Speaker 1: You're a bloody legend, and thank you for doing what
Speaker 1: so many people have wanted to do for a very
Speaker 1: long time.
Speaker 4: Thank you so so so much. That's really really great.
Speaker 3: Well, it is that time.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't finish an episode without sucking sweet
Speaker 1: our highlight and our.
Speaker 3: Low light of the weak law.
Speaker 1: Burn kick it off. What is your suck woman.
Speaker 3: My suck? Now?
Speaker 2: I had something it is Actually I'm very sad about
Speaker 2: this still.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: My mum made Lola an incredible crocheted blanket when she
Speaker 2: was born, Like it is beautiful. It is this big
Speaker 2: hair knitted Mandala blanket, and there's something so sentimental about
Speaker 2: getting a real hair knitted blanket for your baby. It's
Speaker 2: the one thing that I have had for Lola's whole
Speaker 2: life that I desperately wanted to give her when she
Speaker 2: was older that I was like, this is gonna be
Speaker 2: like an heirloom blanket.
Speaker 4: She did.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: I've spoken about Gastro so much on this podcast for
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. Last week she had a blowout.
Speaker 2: She had a blowout pooh which got all over it
Speaker 2: and so I had to put it into the washing
Speaker 2: machine and I put it on a wool wash. I
Speaker 2: followed all the instructions that my mom told me to follow,
Speaker 2: and it came out and it was completely fucking ruined,
Speaker 2: like absolutely just felted together. And it's so dumb because
Speaker 2: like I never cried, Like I feel like I'm pretty
Speaker 2: good with things, Like I never cry over things that
Speaker 2: get broken or damaged, and I'm kind of like, ah, say, Lavie,
Speaker 2: like things come in and out of your life. This
Speaker 2: was one thing that I felt so sentimentally attached to,
Speaker 2: and I called my mum and I was in tears,
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 3: Was like, I've ruined the blanket. I just did.
Speaker 2: I so desperately wanted to have something from the time
Speaker 2: that she was born.
Speaker 3: But there's also nothing you.
Speaker 1: Can do about that because a hand wash would not
Speaker 1: have helped that Pooh situation, Like it had to go
Speaker 1: in the machine.
Speaker 2: It was, yes, it was. I was between a rock
Speaker 2: and a hard place. But anyway, I just I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's like there's always going to be something in life
Speaker 2: that you and it's surely it's an inanimate object, but
Speaker 2: like you just have there were so many memories loaded
Speaker 2: into it. It was the one thing that she's had
Speaker 2: since the day she was born. We brought her home
Speaker 2: from the hospital in it, like it meant so much
Speaker 2: to me and I still, like, even just thinking about it,
Speaker 2: I'm so sad that it's not ana, And you know,
Speaker 2: my mum spent like weeks making it. It was just
Speaker 2: such a beautiful item and now it's gone and it
Speaker 2: makes me really sad.
Speaker 3: Can you just suck? Can you not just keep it?
Speaker 1: Even though it's not perfect?
Speaker 3: It looks like shit. It's literally like a board.
Speaker 2: It turned that all of the wool feltered together and
Speaker 2: it's just become this thick, hard piece of blanket, which
Speaker 2: I can keep it, but it's not cute.
Speaker 3: Keep it and telling the stories even more sentimental.
Speaker 2: Shipoop blanket anyway, Most sweet for the week, guys. It's
Speaker 2: a sweet and it's a recommendation. I am so proud
Speaker 2: of Matthew Johnson. Matthew Johnson's wearing an address Mattie jay No.
Speaker 2: He has been working so hard on his own podcast
Speaker 2: over the last couple of like literally six months he's
Speaker 2: been working. It's called The Penny Drops. It has dropped today.
Speaker 3: It is that money. It is a finance podcast.
Speaker 2: It is for anybody who wants to go out there
Speaker 2: and get financially literate, sort out their finances. Maybe you're
Speaker 2: saving to buy a house. Maybe you want to learn
Speaker 2: about investments or shares or compounding interests or superannuation.
Speaker 3: It is all of that stuff.
Speaker 2: And I just know how much work and love and
Speaker 2: energy he's put into this podcast. So it is my recommendation,
Speaker 2: and it is also my sweet for the week. Cue
Speaker 2: Penny drops. Okay, I'll have to go and have a listen. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you already have what you're talking about. Yes, all right,
Speaker 2: what is your suck?
Speaker 3: Brittany Hockley, do you know what you're gonna hate me?
Speaker 3: I just don't really have a suck this week. I
Speaker 3: love that. Oh great, you always tell me I have
Speaker 3: that one. No, I, you have had it such a
Speaker 3: great week and that you're happy. Oh no, it wasn't great.
Speaker 1: Like there was some low points, but like, I just
Speaker 1: don't think there are anything to like. No, I did okay,
Speaker 1: transparency and a fucking hard day. I had a really
Speaker 1: low day. I didn't get out of bed. It was
Speaker 1: the first sunny day we had and I was full,
Speaker 1: I was low, I was crying. I was really upset.
Speaker 1: I had really I'm gonna cry thinking about this. Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't know why that happened.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm an emotional Oh my brit I like that
Speaker 2: you were like, I haven't had any sock this week,
Speaker 2: and you're like, I spent an entire day in bed
Speaker 2: crying because I like to pretend.
Speaker 1: No, I had a really hard day.
Speaker 3: But that's life, my sweet.
Speaker 2: I think it's like it's so life hard for everyone
Speaker 2: at the moment, but it's also so fucking understandable. Like
Speaker 2: if you were like, yeah, my week has been awesome.
Speaker 2: I haven't had one second of being sad, no one
Speaker 2: would believe that. Like you've you've gone through really big
Speaker 2: stuff in the past couple of weeks, like you know,
Speaker 2: and also like going through that huge transition and going
Speaker 2: through a breakup. It doesn't just happen and then it's
Speaker 2: over and I'm crying on you.
Speaker 3: You know, you think you're fine, fine, fine, fine, fine
Speaker 3: for fine not mine? Yeah fine, fine, fline, so fine,
Speaker 3: they're fucked.
Speaker 2: They're so fine, and that's just what happens, you know,
Speaker 2: And so like, yeah, I mean, I'm glad that you
Speaker 2: don't have one significant bad thing that's happened this week.
Speaker 2: But I think it's really healthy, that you can acknowledge
Speaker 2: that you're still riding those waves and that that's totally okay.
Speaker 3: One hundredcent still running the waves. So that was it.
Speaker 1: It was a tumultuous ride wave this week. My suite
Speaker 1: was that the sun finally came out and that felt good.
Speaker 1: I've got some d I went out, got laid at
Speaker 1: the park. I just felt good, like to do nothing
Speaker 1: and get outside again, because I just feel like I
Speaker 1: feel bad complaining about the rain, but I just feel
Speaker 1: like it's the world has been so dark and gloomy,
Speaker 1: and for me to go and get an hour of sun,
Speaker 1: I appreciated it so much more. And I guess because
Speaker 1: of everything happening in the world. I really just lay
Speaker 1: there and was present. Was like, this is amazing. I'm
Speaker 1: so lucky to be here, happy, he's safe, and enjoin
Speaker 1: the sun in this moment. Such a small and seemingly
Speaker 1: insignificant suite this week, but I can't stress enough how
Speaker 1: nice it was just to feel present and grateful, And
Speaker 1: I guess that's a reflection of everything happening in the world.
Speaker 2: I think you're so right, though, Like you know, just
Speaker 2: having it sounds like the simplest thing but having good weather,
Speaker 2: being able to be outside in the sun really is
Speaker 2: such a shift, like a mood shifter and such a
Speaker 2: game changer for like being able to just feel appreciative
Speaker 2: when it's dark outside you're stuck inside and you're just
Speaker 2: kind of everything is ruminating.
Speaker 3: It adds to that feeling absolu very much.
Speaker 1: Anyway.
Speaker 2: Then, anyway, guys, that is it from us another episode.
Speaker 2: We will be back on Thursday without Ask Gun Cut.
Speaker 2: If you have any questions for Ask Gun Cut, please
Speaker 2: slide into the DMS at Life on Cut podcast. You
Speaker 2: can also join the Facebook group which is Life on
Speaker 2: Cut Discussion Group. And if you've loved the episode, we
Speaker 2: would add solutely love it if you would jump onto
Speaker 2: Apple and leave.
Speaker 3: Us a review and let us know your thoughts. And
Speaker 3: on that note, please tell your mom Tay dot Tae.
Speaker 3: Don't tell your friends and ship because we love, love