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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers.

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Speaker 1: Now Today, I'm a Happy Famili's podcast, a really important

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Speaker 1: conversation about our kids and what goes into their bodies,

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Speaker 1: or in all too many cases, what doesn't go into

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Speaker 1: their bodies. We're talking about eating disorders on the podcast today. Hello,

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Speaker 1: my name is doctor Justin Colson'm the parenting expert and

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Speaker 1: co host of channel linees hit TV show Paral Guidance

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Speaker 1: and dad to six daughters. Fortunately, haven't had to deal

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Speaker 1: with too much in the way of eating disorders in

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Speaker 1: my family, but the impact of eating disorders on children's lives, well,

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Speaker 1: they cast a long shadow. It's not just a short

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Speaker 1: term thing, it's a long term thing as well. I'm

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Speaker 1: joined today by a special guest. Meg McClintock is an

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Speaker 1: accredited practicing dietitian and a and z AD credentialed eating

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Speaker 1: disorder clinician and a positive body image advocate with twenty

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Speaker 1: years of experience across both public and private health care sectors.

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Speaker 1: She's founder and principal dietitian at Choose Nutrition and has

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Speaker 1: a special interest in disordered eating and eating disorders. Chronic dieting,

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Speaker 1: weight and body image concerns. Meg is also the co

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Speaker 1: host of the podcast Life's Too Short to Count Almonds

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Speaker 1: and online course The Non Diet Way. I like the

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Speaker 1: sound of that. It makes me feel like I can

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Speaker 1: eat connoisseur ice cream if I really want to. And

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Speaker 1: she does that those podcasts and that online course with

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Speaker 1: fellow non diet dietitian Susan Williams. Meg is passionate about

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Speaker 1: eating disorder prevention and doing no harm when providing nutritional

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Speaker 1: guidance and when addressing eating and weight concerns across the lifespan.

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Speaker 1: She works with individual skills and community groups to push

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Speaker 1: back against half for body ideals and build body positive

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Speaker 1: spaces where people have all shapes and sizes are empowered

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Speaker 1: to look after their bodies and thrive. It's a big introduction,

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Speaker 1: but it's a big topic and I think it's worthy

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Speaker 1: of you, Meg, So thank you so very much for

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Speaker 1: joining me on the podcast today.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 1: So there's a difference between not doing well with food

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Speaker 1: and having an eating disorder. Okay, I mean I've got

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Speaker 1: a bit of a sugar prop I'm working on it cream.

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Speaker 1: I really like the flowerless orange and poppy seed cake,

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Speaker 1: especially with that ice, the icing on it. You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm having and kind of beat ourselves up about food,

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Speaker 1: which surely has a negative effect overall on the way

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Speaker 1: we approach food. Absolutely, let's talk about this issue. Can

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Speaker 1: we talk in general terms? What are we getting wrong

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Speaker 1: as a society when it comes to the way we

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Speaker 1: approach food?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, unfortunately a lot like we're pretty messed up

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Speaker 2: when it comes to food and nutrition and bodies. But

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Speaker 2: in the big, big picture, I sort of put one

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Speaker 2: sort of umbrella, we're really normalized. So this culture of dieting.

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Speaker 2: So if I sort of think along as sort of

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Speaker 2: a spectrum from what might be sort of like natural eating,

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Speaker 2: intuitive eating, healthy eating, we listen to our body, we've

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Speaker 2: got flexibility, we're notding to nutrition and to you know,

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Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff, and down right down the

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Speaker 2: other end, we've got you know, there's really really harmful,

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Speaker 2: really risky eating disorders like diagnosable meet the criteria. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of a spectrum. So one step sort of up

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Speaker 2: from sort of the eating disorder would be that sort

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Speaker 2: of disordered eating. It's impacting some of your staff. It's

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Speaker 2: possibly most mostly impact relationships, but possibly not physically. But

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Speaker 2: it's pretty yark and taking a lot of your headspace.

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Speaker 2: But the next step between disordered eating and sort of

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Speaker 2: natural eating, intuitive eating is dieting. And so it's just

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Speaker 2: become really normal to be counting, controlling, restricting, earning. All

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Speaker 2: this sort of language that we have in our culture

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Speaker 2: is unfortunately a supper slope to sernificate eating disorder for

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Speaker 2: people who are vulnerable to that.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing is like, essentially, I'm probably simplifying

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Speaker 1: this too much, but four levels. We've got healthy, natural,

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Speaker 1: intuitive eating, then we've got dieting, Then we've got disordered

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Speaker 1: eating where it's certainly impacting our lives in unhelpful and

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Speaker 1: unproductive ways, and then there's actually eating disorders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty gray in between those zones.

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Speaker 1: Not just free sess. It's something that I've been thinking

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Speaker 1: a lot about lately because I have unfortunately, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not as healthy as I used to be, I

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Speaker 1: think is probably the easiest way to say it, and

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Speaker 1: I could do with some lifestyle changes that would improve

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Speaker 1: my health. This is what happens when you've got six

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Speaker 1: kids and you travel a lot for thoughts. And there

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Speaker 1: are my excuses. There are my excuses, but you know

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Speaker 1: what the reality is.

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Speaker 2: All the reasons, all the reasons we can be more

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Speaker 2: compassionate than excuses.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've come up with I've come up with a

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Speaker 1: theory and it really works for me, and that is

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Speaker 1: this my brain lies to me. My brain tells me

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Speaker 1: so many lies about the calories that I'm putting in

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Speaker 1: my body and the nutritional quality, what I need to do,

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Speaker 1: what I want, what I don't want. And what I'm

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Speaker 1: finding is that my brain is telling me yes, when

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Speaker 1: my body, if I listen to it, would actually say no,

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Speaker 1: I don't really need I mean, this is an embarrassing story,

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Speaker 1: but a case in point. I was at a hotel

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Speaker 1: in Sydney just recently. They fed me a beautiful pasta dish,

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Speaker 1: which I just love. And one of the great things

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Speaker 1: about all the travel that I do is I do

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Speaker 1: it in a lot of restaurants. That's both good and bad, obviously.

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Speaker 1: But then they brought me the dessert menu and my

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Speaker 1: body said yeah. My body said you've had enough. And

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Speaker 1: then I looked at the prices and my wallet also

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Speaker 1: said you've had enough. The lemon and Rosemary Gatto looked

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Speaker 1: so good, and it was twenty three bucks for dessert,

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Speaker 1: and I just thought, that's obscene, that's excessive. I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing it. And then I thought, you know what, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to do it. I don't do this often. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to do.

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Speaker 2: It scarcy mentality. There it is.

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Speaker 1: I know they brought it a piece of cake. I

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Speaker 1: kid you not, Meg. It was as big as a

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Speaker 1: cake under normal circumstances. I don't know how big the

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Speaker 1: cake must have been. This thing was massive, the biggest

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Speaker 1: piece of cake I've literally ever seen in my life.

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Speaker 1: And then my brain said, well, gee, that's big. Let's

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Speaker 1: see how much you can do. And I hate most

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Speaker 1: of it, and I felt so bad, and I remembered again,

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Speaker 1: my brain says yes, and it lies to me. It

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Speaker 1: says yes, yes, Yes, You're gonna enjoy this so much,

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Speaker 1: and my body says, don't do it. But my brain

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Speaker 1: seems to stronger than my body in that situation. There

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Speaker 1: is a question coming in this very long autobiographical story

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Speaker 1: up sugar addiction, and that is how do we listen

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Speaker 1: better to our bodies? And the follow up to that

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Speaker 1: is how do we teach our kids that when it's

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Speaker 1: so hard for us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so as I mean, that's a huge question. But

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Speaker 2: what we see, and this is really really really common

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Speaker 2: with this sort of in that stage down from sort

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Speaker 2: of intuitive on natural in tune eating whatever I want

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Speaker 2: to call it in dieting, is this really well defined cycle,

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Speaker 2: which is the more we put something on a pedestal,

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Speaker 2: the more we think something we shouldn't be having, the

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Speaker 2: more we think, I'll eat it now because diet starts

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Speaker 2: tomorrow and I'm not going to let myself have it tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: or I've opened the packet now, so I'll eat it

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Speaker 2: all so it's gone and then I won't have to

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Speaker 2: worry about eating it tomorrow. All this controlling that we

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Speaker 2: do to try to reduce how much of these foods

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Speaker 2: we eat actually drives us to those very foods and

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Speaker 2: disconnects us from you know, if you a sort of

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Speaker 2: sit down and go that looks great. I don't feel

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Speaker 2: like it right now, but I'm not going to be

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Speaker 2: able to have it again in the future because this

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Speaker 2: is rare. Just know, Oh, there's that scarcity mentality there

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Speaker 2: of oh I've got it here now, I've got these

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Speaker 2: like these experiences of getting in trouble for not eating

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Speaker 2: all the food on my plate, and so the idea

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Speaker 2: of not eating the whole thing now that it's in

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Speaker 2: front of me, Oh, that's really that's really uncomfortable, and

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Speaker 2: so the easiest way to get rid of that discomfort

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Speaker 2: is to just eat it. And so often it's actually

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Speaker 2: sort of zooming out a bit understanding what is driving

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Speaker 2: the behavior. So I get another I love my imagery,

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Speaker 2: but I sort of think of I thort of think

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Speaker 2: of it as like got a tree and the top

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Speaker 2: of the tree, the leaves a bit we see the

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Speaker 2: bits that often we might want to change is that

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Speaker 2: we think of that as behavior. So things we don't

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Speaker 2: like that we do, all the things we do like

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Speaker 2: that we do. That's sort of the top. That's a canopy.

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Speaker 2: Just telling someone, well, don't do it, or just giving

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Speaker 2: someone information. It's kind of like watering the leaves. You

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Speaker 2: want to shiny leaves for a while. You might be

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Speaker 2: able to will power white knuckle it hold on for

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Speaker 2: a while, but it's really not where trees get their nourishment.

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Speaker 2: We need to look down, and so they sort of

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Speaker 2: think about the trunk. That's often where I thoughts and

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Speaker 2: feelings high because there are things that kick our behaviors

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Speaker 2: off most instantly, those sorts of thoughts and feelings. But

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Speaker 2: then we've got to go, well, where have they been

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Speaker 2: informed from? And go under the ground. And that's why

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Speaker 2: we've got things like our values, So our values around

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Speaker 2: money and I've spent the money on it, I don't

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Speaker 2: want to waste it, or our values on our health

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Speaker 2: and nutrition, our beliefs about I'm addicted to this, and

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Speaker 2: so I'm not going to be able to stop, which

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Speaker 2: may be true or may not be true. And you know,

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Speaker 2: things like our experiences like that one I used before.

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Speaker 2: If I get in trouble, if I've grown up getting

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Speaker 2: in trouble when i don't eat everything on my plate,

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Speaker 2: or I've got really strong values around waste and sustainability tree,

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Speaker 2: I feel really uncomfortable at the idea of wasting this

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Speaker 2: food or of missing this opportunity or whatever, and so

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Speaker 2: the automatic behavior is, well, I'm going to deal with

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Speaker 2: that by eating it. We need to sort of zoom

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Speaker 2: out and try different things.

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Speaker 1: Two things Maing stand out to me as you're sharing this,

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Speaker 1: especially when we get down to the roots and the

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Speaker 1: values them is on this idea of waste. I had

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Speaker 1: my thinking completely revolutionized a little while ago when I

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Speaker 1: was listening to a podcast with the founder of the

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Speaker 1: founder of the US behemoth Whole Foods. Oh wow, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this guy back in the seventies hippie sort of living

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Speaker 1: and put together the Whole Foods and now it's a

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Speaker 1: multi billion dollar goliath in terms of helping people to

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Speaker 1: eat food that's good for them and all about sustainability.

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Speaker 1: But the guy actually said he's not so worried about

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Speaker 1: food wasted because food is a renewable resource, like you

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Speaker 1: can always grow more food, especially when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the kind of whole foods that he's describing and we're

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Speaker 1: not necessarily talking about killing animals and things, right, And

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Speaker 1: I thought that was a really fascinating reframe. And I've

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Speaker 1: loosened up heaps on the idea that all the food

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Speaker 1: on your plate now has to be eaten. There's the

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Speaker 1: financial aspect, but in terms of the renewability of you

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Speaker 1: can always cook more rice or whatever. That's really shifted,

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Speaker 1: and that value has changed the way I look at

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Speaker 1: the way my kids eat what's on their plate. The second,

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Speaker 1: the second value that I just wanted to highlight is

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Speaker 1: kind of the other extreme. My dad probably eats a

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Speaker 1: diet that is has more sometimes food, heat, sometimes food

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Speaker 1: all the time. If you know what I mean, and

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Speaker 1: his value is you know what, I'm nearly seventy years old.

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Speaker 1: I'll eat what I want. Yeah, I just want to

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Speaker 1: enjoy my food. I don't care and to the detriment

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Speaker 1: of your health. But when I think about these, just

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Speaker 1: the pervasive range of deeply entrenched values that drive the

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Speaker 1: thoughts and the emotions that drive the behaviors, that model

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Speaker 1: of the tree and the canopy and the roots. I

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Speaker 1: guess I shared those two to highlight how powerful that

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Speaker 1: can be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it helps. By having that sort

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Speaker 2: of framework, we can instead of sort of looking at

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Speaker 2: our behaviors and being like, oh, you're read it. You

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Speaker 2: did that again. Why don't I have any will power?

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Speaker 2: I'm so bad, really negative shame spiral.

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Speaker 1: That's what I said.

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Speaker 2: Hang on a minute, right, Yeah, we can sort of

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Speaker 2: pause and have this sort of compassionate look of people

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Speaker 2: are often trying their best, and people are often doing

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Speaker 2: really automat behaviors without really having a time to even

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Speaker 2: think about doing something differently, and so if we can

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Speaker 2: sort of be curious and have a little look down

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Speaker 2: and sort of understand what's going underneath, that's really where

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Speaker 2: we're going to have an impact. I have a middlefol

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Speaker 2: client I worked with a while ago who she knew

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Speaker 2: that she wasn't hungry when she was driving home from

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Speaker 2: work and she was going home to dinner, and yet

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Speaker 2: she just kept sort of going through the drive through

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Speaker 2: and she didn't understand it, and so we did some digging,

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Speaker 2: did some digging and goes right back to some food

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Speaker 2: insecurity as a child, and the idea of being even

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Speaker 2: tiny bit hungry and not knowing where your next food

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Speaker 2: was coming from was so panic inducing that she would

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Speaker 2: just push it down, push it down, push it down.

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Speaker 2: And so we had to do so much beautiful, calm, slow,

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Speaker 2: compassionate work on Okay, let's acknowledge that, let's learn to

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Speaker 2: be comfortable with that. Let's remind you that you're not

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Speaker 2: food insecure, You've got an option, and how can we

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Speaker 2: work around that. So it's some tile and error and

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Speaker 2: a lot of compassionate looking. Unfortunately, our cultures just like

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Speaker 2: we'll just try harder, just have you will completely ignoring

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Speaker 2: like people's own experiences in life and how diverse that

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Speaker 2: they are, their capacity to you know, financially, their capacity

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Speaker 2: if they've got kids who are really struggling to diversify

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Speaker 2: their intake and they can't afford to be throwing food

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Speaker 2: out all the time, or they've got you know, possibly

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Speaker 2: some so ahither that's the trauma or just some just

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Speaker 2: some really rigid beliefs around food. All of that stuff

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Speaker 2: is just becomes this cycle of going around and around

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Speaker 2: around doing the same thing. Because our culture has the

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Speaker 2: sort of the belief that you're out of control with food,

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Speaker 2: you can't be trusted. This is like the general everybody,

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Speaker 2: you can't be trusted, you're out of control. You need

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Speaker 2: you need control, you need a diet. So people go

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Speaker 2: and they do their diet and the first stage is

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Speaker 2: great honeymoon phase. The first time you've got around this

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Speaker 2: cycle is pretty easy. People will you know, you they're

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Speaker 2: in a deathicerit. Their body takes a while to adapt

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Speaker 2: and so they have this honeymoon phase where sort of

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Speaker 2: the it's working and then sort of the next stage is, well,

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Speaker 2: there's a cheat because there's a special event. There's occasion

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Speaker 2: you get sick or whatever, and usually that's not the

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Speaker 2: end of the story. People like nap increase the zule

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Speaker 2: one back on the horse, and so they'll keep going

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Speaker 2: and they'll keep doing the same thing, but their body goes.

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Speaker 2: I don't like being deficit. So it increases their food preoccupation,

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Speaker 2: in increases their hunger. Hoomers, there's a plateau with their

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Speaker 2: weight change even though they're still doing all the same things.

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Speaker 2: That's very frustrating in a culture that says just do

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Speaker 2: it harder. And so someone who doesn't have a predecision

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Speaker 2: for eating disorders, usually that's just going to lead to

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Speaker 2: so much frustration, hunger, irritation over it that they'll be

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Speaker 2: the end of the diet with this over compensating of eating.

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Speaker 2: So perhaps binging or just really forget it, I don't care,

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Speaker 2: I'm eating everything whatever.

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Speaker 1: But then they'd repeat the cycle when they and just

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Speaker 1: diet harder.

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Speaker 2: Just yes, and our culture, our culture is the only

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Speaker 2: has the only answer. It's ever sort of giveness is, well,

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Speaker 2: you found that you need a different diet, that one

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Speaker 2: wasn't right for you. You need to find the right diet.

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Speaker 2: And because people have swung between control, restrict, count limit,

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Speaker 2: all that sort of negativity or I don't care, I'm

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Speaker 2: eating everything whatever. They think they need the diet to

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Speaker 2: stop the binging, although overcompensating eating or whatever, not realizing

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Speaker 2: oh no, it's the restriction is the starter, that it's

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Speaker 2: what's kicking it off. And so what sort of non

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Speaker 2: diet dietitians are What I do with my clients, either

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Speaker 2: for the weight cycling or of course in eating disorders

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Speaker 2: as well, particularly of your binge eating disorders, is really

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Speaker 2: trying to offer a different world together that is outside

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Speaker 2: of that diet cycle, which is without paying attention to

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Speaker 2: hunger and forwardness signals to what are your values around

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Speaker 2: food and health and nutrition, because as you said, with

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Speaker 2: your dad, he has different values around health than you,

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Speaker 2: and that's not necessary better or worse. And so just

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Speaker 2: sort of people understanding their own stuff and then finding

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Speaker 2: a way to look after their bodies, to look after

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Speaker 2: their wellbeing, whole big picture well being. And you know,

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Speaker 2: obviously I'm a dietitian, so improving dietary quality is right

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Speaker 2: up there on my priority list and my radar as

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Speaker 2: part of that process. So we stop swinging and going

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Speaker 2: round and around around that diet cycle. And the more

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Speaker 2: times you go around it the shorter it gets, and

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Speaker 2: the less like it's effective it gets. So as far

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Speaker 2: as for weight loss, which I don't do weight loss,

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Speaker 2: but that's a whole discussion for another day around intentional

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Speaker 2: weight loss, but it does also become less effective as

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Speaker 2: your body goes Oh, I know how to do this.

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Speaker 2: I was going to down regulate. I'm going to make

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Speaker 2: you really hungry, and I'm going to get this cycle

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Speaker 2: finished as quick as possible because our body is actually

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Speaker 2: really like being in balance. So where this sort of

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Speaker 2: lead that gets into in disorders, So people who have

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Speaker 2: a genetic predisposition for in disorders, that guieting, that restriction,

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Speaker 2: that controlling can really kick off the development of a

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Speaker 2: really serious eat disorder.

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Speaker 1: We need to talk about that serious stuff to eating disorders.

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Speaker 1: I promised that at the very start.

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Speaker 2: We've got off track. No we did. That's okay, But.

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Speaker 1: I love what you're talking about and it's fascinating. I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you to just to sort of finish

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Speaker 1: off the question that I had asked previously. If you've

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Speaker 1: got a child who is not eating well, who is

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Speaker 1: clearly nutritionally deficient, and it's probably eating lots and lots

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Speaker 1: of white foods and yellow foods, but not getting the

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Speaker 1: rest of the rainbow and certainly missing out on the

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Speaker 1: nutritional quality. It would lead to a healthier childhood and

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Speaker 1: help them to be more active. How do we help

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Speaker 1: them to shift, like, how do we help them to

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Speaker 1: move in a healthy direction without increasing the risk of

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Speaker 1: well predisposing them towards and eating disorder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so obviously not having panics. I think often people

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Speaker 2: sort of panic and get really stressed about short term

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Speaker 2: eating behavior or what's happening for their kids in a

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Speaker 2: sort of a distrect period of time and put the

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Speaker 2: pressure on. And what happens when we put pressure on

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Speaker 2: kids is usually that sort of the push back and

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Speaker 2: that reaction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, resistance, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so trying to zooming out of a k

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Speaker 2: nutrition matters over a lifetime. And so we're going to

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Speaker 2: be moving towards you know where we would want as

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Speaker 2: a family to our kids to be eating. But the

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Speaker 2: best thing we can do for that is modeling, is

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Speaker 2: continuing to offer a wide range of foods and that predictability.

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Speaker 2: So there's an I sort of the phrase that can

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Speaker 2: be useful of that sort of really gentle rule of

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Speaker 2: threes that kids they need to eat around at every

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Speaker 2: three hours and try to have something for more three magnuchance.

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Speaker 2: Let's make sure there's some fats and proteins and carbohydrate

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Speaker 2: on offer at every time, and then we have these

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Speaker 2: foods between meals where we're not eating to work with

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Speaker 2: our natural appetites. Another issue with our diet culture is

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Speaker 2: that says, well, you read the paper and that tells

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Speaker 2: you what and when to eat, as opposed to when

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Speaker 2: you're actually hungry or when your body tells you to stop.

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Speaker 2: Our gods like, well, but there's still more on your

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Speaker 2: meal plan, or you haven't had your five vegies, you

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Speaker 2: better keep going. So really trying to work with their

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Speaker 2: inbuilt natural appetites and not destroy that connection but actually

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Speaker 2: help them have body trust. Continued exposure like low pressure

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Speaker 2: exposure and modeling are probably the strongest things in there.

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Speaker 1: So two follow up questions on that number One, you

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Speaker 1: said ideally kidstributing every three hours. What age you are

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Speaker 1: around about? Yeah, give or take. But what age are

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Speaker 1: we talking about here? Oh?

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Speaker 2: So, so from sort of free school through it's just

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Speaker 2: it's generally how work our school days are going to

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Speaker 2: sit up anyway. But just if we look at sort

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Speaker 2: of the appetite hormones. There's a whole of different hormones

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Speaker 2: involved in appetite and once for hunger and for fullness,

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Speaker 2: and they kind of will sort of go in a

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Speaker 2: it's not exact science, but they'll go in a bit

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Speaker 2: of a three hour cycle. And if we if we

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Speaker 2: go too long. One thing is people can actually not

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Speaker 2: feel hunger because they can sort of turn off that

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Speaker 2: connection because they're like, this doesn't feel pleasant. The other

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Speaker 2: thing is that we can really disconnect from hunger of

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Speaker 2: fullness and just when the food comes really overdo it.

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Speaker 2: If there's predictability and kids know, oh, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: get another gult that later on, then they're less likely

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Speaker 2: to eat all the stuff now because they don't know

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Speaker 2: when they're going to get it again. And that's you know,

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Speaker 2: linking in particularly to sort of your more binge eating

399
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Speaker 2: disorders where the scarcity mentality thing back to COVID and

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Speaker 2: the toilet paper, like people are like, oh, no, I'm

401
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Speaker 2: not gonna have enough toilet paper, so they bought enough

402
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Speaker 2: toilet paper of three years. You know, a very human things.

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Speaker 1: We're still working for hours right now and we've got.

404
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Speaker 2: Stuck and so we can apply it. So you know

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Speaker 2: how often people think about food if they think I'm

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Speaker 2: not gonna let myself have this again, or I only

407
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Speaker 2: get this at parties because our house has none of

408
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Speaker 2: this stuff in it. Often these are the kids actually

409
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Speaker 2: don't have their own off switch or don't have their

410
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Speaker 2: own connection because they override it because of that desire

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Speaker 2: because it's delicious and it's enjoyable, but they're taught that

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Speaker 2: it's really special and that they're not going to have

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Speaker 2: it regularly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So that takes care of my second question because

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Speaker 1: you also mentioned the word predictability around food, But what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is they know they're going to get food

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Speaker 1: again in a couple of hours time. Three absolutely, Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell me in terms of eating disorders, how prevalent are

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Speaker 1: they in Australia. How much do we see this occurring

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Speaker 1: in our kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if we think about all eating sauce, so

422
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 2: off from when we say eating sours, people just think

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00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 2: about ANIREXI interface, So that really sort of stereotypical. And

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Speaker 2: I see everybody is teenage girl, which is just such

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Speaker 2: a tiny proportion. So around about four percent of the

426
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Speaker 2: total population will experience and eating disorder. Maybe three percent

427
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Speaker 2: of those is anarexi in nevosa, and so it's really

428
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 2: broad spectrum. Some research suggests in Australia adolescents expensing disordered

429
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 2: eatings up to around thirty percent. So that's the stuff

430
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Speaker 2: that hides in plain sight because in our culture that says, hey,

431
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Speaker 2: dieting is normal, dieting is goods is how you look.

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Speaker 2: This is how you quote unquote look after yourself, those

433
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 2: things which are quite disordered and causing possibly distress or

434
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 2: shame or worry or just a whole lot of headspace

435
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 2: being used up on food food thinking over the normalized

436
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 2: and a scene as you know, perhaps good if we

437
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 2: look at what is called atypical anorexin novosa, which is

438
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: all of the psychological distress and the physical risk of

439
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 2: our sort of typical arexia but without a low body weight.

440
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: And there's some really interesting Australian research that showed that

441
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 2: actually kids who started in a bigger body and lose

442
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 2: a significant amount of weight are at higher risk of

443
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: medical instability than kids who perhaps started in a small

444
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 2: body and lost weight to an underweight stage. But because

445
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 2: of their starting point, actually they are still at rithmetically,

446
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: and we want to help sort them out and you

447
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 2: get them out of deficit. But there's this whole cohort

448
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 2: of kids who are naturally larger or who've just been bigger,

449
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,919
Speaker 2: who then do what society tells them to do and

450
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 2: lose weight, which actually kicks off this really significant, really

451
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 2: life harming in disorder that can hang around for years

452
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 2: and years and years. But instead of getting help, they

453
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 2: get congratulated or they get told, I'll keep doing what

454
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 2: you're doing. So weight loss in teenagers, even intentional weight

455
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 2: loss in teenagers, it's not normal. They should that's the

456
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 2: wrong direction. Even for a kid who's fat's in a

457
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 2: larger body. It actually is like warning, signed red flag,

458
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 2: but often missed. You know, sometimes often in boys in particular,

459
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: who suddenly get like a gym obsession. They really at

460
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 2: the gym and they're counting their macros and they're doing this,

461
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 2: that and the other, and it was like, oh, he's

462
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 2: so healthy. Is we looking out for his health? And

463
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 2: then you know, I've got plenty of clients who that

464
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: was them as a teen and it was years later

465
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: that they were like, oh, yeah, I was really unwell.

466
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 2: I was just dressed I was body checking, I was

467
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: weighing myself constantly, I was thinking about nothing of food.

468
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: I had really low hormone levels. I was tired, I

469
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: was insomniac, like life was awful, and yet on the

470
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: outside I was like, yeah, buddy, keep doing what you're doing.

471
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 2: That's amazing. So it's really it can be really hard.

472
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 2: I have a heap of compassion for parents who want

473
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: the best for their kids and have also grown up

474
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: in this culture that has sort of a hierarchy of

475
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: bodies and uses a body shape or size to decide

476
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: if someone's healthy or not.

477
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: So I feel like I need to I don't know

478
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: if pushback is the right word, but I'm having a

479
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: reaction to some of the stuff that you're saying, particularly

480
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: around like there comes a point though, when your body

481
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: is simply unhealthy, and that may or may not have

482
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: to do with the size of it, but clearly there's

483
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: a correlation. The bigger body, the more likely it is

484
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: that you're going to suffer ill health people who are yes.

485
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 2: So there are definitely a risk factor. So no one

486
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 2: is sort of annoying that, you know, being in a

487
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 2: large body isn't associated with increased rates of different sort

488
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: of I guess more video mortality, different chronic diseases. But

489
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 2: when the research actually looks at behaviors, particularly on physical

490
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: activity behaviors and body side, the association between a higher

491
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 2: risk and the body size actually goes away. And if

492
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 2: we actually look at people's behaviors any plenty fruits and vegetables,

493
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: not smoking, and moving, those risks are really they really disappear.

494
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: There's some really good research around particularly the impact of

495
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: physical activity on risk. And the piece of the puzzle

496
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: that often gets missed is our culture makes it really

497
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 2: hard to just live your life happily and healthily if

498
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: you're in a larger body, and so that weight stigma

499
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: piece of the puzzle often gets missed. So we know

500
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: this around you know, different minorities have increased risk of

501
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 2: quantican complex disease due to stigma, but we kind of

502
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: miss that. We've got a real weight stigma problem in

503
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 2: our culture. So it's hard for kids to feel okay

504
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: in their bodies if they don't sort of if they're

505
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: sort of outside of those thin ideas or those sort

506
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: of normal body ideals.

507
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: So this is a podcast for the time poor parent

508
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: who just wants answers. Now they listening to this conversation,

509
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: they're saying, okay, okay, I get the general overall gist

510
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: that this is a discussion about overall health rather than

511
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: the size of my child's body. Nevertheless, I know that

512
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: my child is not in a healthy body right now,

513
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: and I want them to be healthy. But every time

514
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: I talk to them about it, it backfires, They get defensive,

515
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: or they gone do something unhelpful, unhealthy. If I'm a

516
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: parent who just wants my kidd to make better decisions, here,

517
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: what would be your top couple of tips, top three

518
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: tips that can really be actively followed by a parent

519
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: who's struggling with this right now.

520
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely so. The biggest thing is that your child

521
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: knows that no matter what their size is and what

522
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: happens with their body, they are one hundred percent loved, accepted.

523
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,719
Speaker 2: Their value in your eyes doesn't change that because we

524
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: don't look after things we don't care about. And so

525
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: if kids are getting there idea that they're not cared for,

526
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 2: how they actually don't that their body isn't worth caring

527
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,239
Speaker 2: for because of the way it looks, they're not going

528
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: to care for it.

529
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: I remember reading some research a couple of years ago

530
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: that showed that kids, I think nine year old, nine

531
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: year old kids who received messages from their parents that

532
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: indicate that their parents are not satisfied with that child's body.

533
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: In other words, hey kiddo, you need to lose some weight.

534
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: At the age of like sixteen seventeen, they were I

535
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: don't remember how many times, but they were two or

536
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: three or four times more likely to still be overweight

537
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: or obese in their mid eighteens because of what they

538
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: heard when they were nine.

539
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're in a culture that says, oh,

540
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: actually you don't belong here, we don't have uniform that

541
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: fits you, or you don't look like the other kids

542
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: on the sporting team or whatever, well what are you

543
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 2: going to do. You're gonna withdraw, You're going to sit

544
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 2: in your room. You maybe you don't increase your online

545
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: presence being on you know, computer games, because well, you're safe,

546
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: you're accepted that no one's judging you on your body.

547
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: So number one, unconditional love, right, unconditional love, and really

548
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: really focusing on no matter how you look, you've got

549
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: my love and my support absolutely.

550
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 2: So from there you can then spring into that modeling

551
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: that regulation about what's good for all bodies, because it's

552
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: not like people who are actually in small bodies it's

553
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: good for them to sit around, not do any movement

554
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: and only donates to McDonald's and you know, so what's

555
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: good for all bodies? So rather than having a sort

556
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: of a this is good for you and this is

557
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: bad for you, we actually be like, you know, it's

558
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: good for everybody, movement, stress management, eating plenty fruits and vegetables,

559
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: eating regular meals, you know, having that sort of that ballance.

560
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 2: So that's the starting point is if I wasn't worried

561
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: about my child's body size, what would I be wanting

562
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 2: them to do anyway? And starting there with those sort

563
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: of conversations because there's every single chard is in a

564
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: larger body. They know it. You know, we've got kids

565
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 2: as young ast for you know, we can actually identify

566
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: that there's levels of weight steam where that young people

567
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 2: don't need to be told they need to be supported

568
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 2: to look after the body as it is. And again,

569
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 2: there's so much more we could talk about around and

570
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: how that might look, because it's going to be really

571
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: different for different families. But at the end of the day,

572
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: our bodies are worth respecting and looking after, no how

573
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 2: they look, and that we undermine people's ability to look

574
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: after their body by telling them it's something wrong with them.

575
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: Meg McClintock is an accredited practicing dietitian. You can find

576
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: out more at Choose Nutrition. She's also the co host

577
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: of the podcast Life's Too Short to Count almends. Love

578
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: that title. Hey Meg, thanks for joining me on the

579
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: Happy Family Podcast.

580
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: Been a pleasure.

581
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: If you'd like more information, we'll link to everything Meg

582
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: related in our show notes. You can also check out

583
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot you. The Happy Families podcast

584
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: is produced by Justin ruland Craig Bruce is our executive producer,

585
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: and if you'd like more info about making your family

586
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: happier and healthier, check out Choose Nutrition online with Meg

587
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: McClintock her podcast Life's Too Short to Count almends. We'll

588
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: visit us at Happy families dot com dot a you