1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Do you know any magic tricks? If you don't, perhaps 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: it's time to learn one, because it might improve the 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: way that you work. And that's certainly been the case 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: for psychology professor Richard Wiseman. Scientific American described Richard as 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: one of the most interesting and innovative experimental psychologists in 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: the world, and Richard's love of magic has improved his 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: work as a psychologist in some unexpected ways. Of course, 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: it's helpful when he's conducting experiments or research into the 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: psychology of magic and illusions, but the lessons magic teachers 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: about performance and holding an audience's attention have been just 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: as valuable. So how has magic helped Richard learn how 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: to craft remarkably better presentations? My name is doctor amanthe Imber. 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychoicist and the founder of behavioral science 14 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: consultancy Inventium. And this is how I work, a show 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. On 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: today is my Favorite Tip episode. We go back to 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: an interview from the past and I pick out my 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: favorite tip from the interview. In today's show, I speak 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: with Richard and we start by discussing how magic has 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: made him a better psychologist. 21 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 2: I think magic's quite unique because the solutions tricks are 22 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: normally brilliantly elegant and simple, and normally for any what 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: magician would call an effect, like a levitation for example, 24 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: that's an effect. Then you have method, which is how 25 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: it's done. There's always another way. You learn there's always 26 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: another way, and that magic evolves. So the way magicians 27 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: float people now is not the same as it was 28 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: thirty years ago, certainly not the same as it was 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: one hundred years ago. So you'd learn there's always another way, 30 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: and that if you can find that way, then you 31 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: can perform the trick in a new kind of new 32 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 2: new way. So I think that's important obviously that most 33 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: of the solutions are lateral. You know, there is a 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: reason why audiences don't think of them is because they're 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: a bit like those lateral thinking puzzles where you've made 36 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 2: assumptions and trapped yourself in a in a little box. 37 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 2: I think that's helpful. So I think those are the 38 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 2: sort of obvious strategic ones. There is also with magic. 39 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: If you perform a lot, you have to keep an 40 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: audience with you, and I think that skill, obviously for 41 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: live is useful. But even writing wise, you just think 42 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: how can I make how can I keep an audience 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 2: with me? And certainly when I'm writing lay books of 44 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: non technical books, how do you keep an audience with you? 45 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: So I always remember the first time I wrote I 46 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: think it was one of the drafts of The Luck Factor. 47 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: I'd written something like, I don't know one of my 48 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: studies that lucky people miss opportunities. Sorry, lucky people spot opportunities. 49 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: We brought them into the lab, we got them to 50 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 2: do this, and my editor said, you've just given away 51 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 2: the goods too soon that first line. You've told us 52 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: what the experiment was all about, right, instead of that Right, 53 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 2: we did an experiment to discover if lucky people tended 54 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: to spot opportunities, and the results were astonishing, And now 55 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: you're hooked. Now you're like, oh, what did you do? 56 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: And it's a very simple thing, but you suddenly realize 57 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: that often as writers or speakers, we tell people the 58 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 2: answer and then we explain the answer, and you think 59 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: it's way better to hook people. And magicians are good 60 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: at that kind of thinking. 61 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: What are some other principles that you've learned as a 62 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: magician and mastered it as a magician? That you've found 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: have been really useful in making your other work, your 64 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: main work, more engaging. 65 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: I mean, so it's tactical because I do work on 66 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: the psychology of magic, so obviously you have to know 67 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: magic to do that. And so they've had one of 68 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: the most successful things, which is the Quacology YouTube channel, 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: which started really early within two years of YouTube being 70 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: out there, and we did it just because it was 71 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: a fun way of sharing content. But I certainly weren't 72 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: doing it for money. And that's another big driver on 73 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: this is I always think you can tell passion projects 74 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: from projects the person's getting paid for and doesn't really 75 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: want to do it. It has a flavor and you 76 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: can tell, you know with it. I don't know what 77 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: it is, but within seconds of somebody starting to give 78 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: a talk, you can tell where they want to be 79 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 2: there or not, and if they don't want to be there, 80 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,119 Speaker 2: you start to think, well, I'd rather it wasn't as well, 81 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: so because it's hard when you're giving the same talk 82 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: again and again and again and again. And so one 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: of the tips actually actually comes from magician I shouldn't. 84 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: Rea is a very famous magician, but I won't say 85 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: who that the problem you've got as a speaker is 86 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: you're going to walk out and give this talk. In 87 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: fact that I'm doing at the weekend, doing the Lucky Talk. 88 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: I've been doing that talk for twenty something years. You 89 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: have to walk out and it has to feel to 90 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: that audience like this is the first time you've given it, 91 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: and you're giving it for them. And I said to 92 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,119 Speaker 2: my friend, his magician, how do you cultivate that actor? 93 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 2: You're doing your act twice a day, and they said, 94 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 2: it's really straightforward. I stand in the wings and I 95 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: tell myself the truth, and the truth is that one 96 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: day I won't be doing this. I'll be too old, 97 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: or the audience won't turn up, or I'll have an 98 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: accident or whatever it is, I won't want it. One 99 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: day I will not be doing this. And he said, 100 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: I let the sadness of that go into my bones, 101 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: and then I think it's not today, though, and I 102 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: walk out and I do that now. I do it 103 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 2: because you, and that keeps you in that moment, because 104 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 2: you won't be anything you do where it's writing books 105 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: or making videos, where I will not be doing it forever. 106 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 2: There'll come a day when I'm not doing it, and 107 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: we all assume these things are going to continue. They won't. 108 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: They won't. So live in the moment and enjoy at 109 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: that moment and for a live event that I think 110 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: carries So I think those are all kind of magiciany 111 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 2: thinking things. Magicians tend to be quite a thoughtful lot. 112 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this little extract from my chat 113 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: with Richard Wiseman. If you're keen to listen to the 114 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: full interview, there is a link to that in the 115 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: show notes. If you're looking for motives to improve the 116 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: way that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter 117 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: that contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped 118 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: me work better, ranging from software there and gadgets that 119 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: I'm loving through to interesting research findings. You can sign 120 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: up for that at Howiwork dot com. That's how I 121 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: Work dot co. How I Work is produced by Inventium 122 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios. And thank you 123 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: to Matt Nimba, who does the audio mix for every 124 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: episode and makes everything sound so much better than it 125 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: would have otherwise. See you next time.