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Speaker 1: J Jersey and Amanda gem Nation.

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Speaker 2: Well, surprising many, yesterday the Prime Minister has announced that

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Speaker 2: Australia will recognize the state of Palestine, contributing to an

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Speaker 2: international move towards a two state solution, a cease foreign

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Speaker 2: gaza and release of the hostages. It is a lot

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Speaker 2: to wrap our heads around. And what does it mean

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Speaker 2: for our international relations? Was this led by so many

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Speaker 2: protesters recently? What does it all mean? Well, let's chat

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Speaker 2: to foreign affairs expert doctor Keith Suter.

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Speaker 1: Keith, Hello, yes, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Well was this a surprise? It seems that just a

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Speaker 2: few weeks ago Anthony Alberonezi was saying this wasn't on

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Speaker 2: the cards.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was a question really of when it was

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Speaker 1: going to be done, rather than if, So we knew

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Speaker 1: that it was going to It was in the wind

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Speaker 1: because you can see that Australia's other allies like Canada

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Speaker 1: and the United Kingdom France were moving in that direction.

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Speaker 1: So Australia has decided to join that bandwagon. Three quarters

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Speaker 1: of the world already recognized Palestine, so Australia and a

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Speaker 1: few other countries are bringing up the rear. And this

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Speaker 1: is just a gesture from our point of view, though, well,

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Speaker 1: Australia is not a major player in the Middle East,

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Speaker 1: but it does add to the momentum, I guess for

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Speaker 1: the recognition of Palestine. But if you're really concerned about

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Speaker 1: the suffering that's going on this very day, it's not

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Speaker 1: going to make much of a difference at all.

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Speaker 2: We've broken with the United States and obviously with Israel

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Speaker 2: in doing this. Is this a sign of the new

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Speaker 2: world order that we're no longer so concerned about what

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Speaker 2: America thinks?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think America is no longer worried about what

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world thinks, and so they're withdrawing

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Speaker 1: from a lot of their international commitments. I think the

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Speaker 1: big thing for America and Australia is China. So although

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Speaker 1: America might be annoyed temporarily with what Australia has done

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Speaker 1: over Palestine, the long term game that America is playing

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Speaker 1: is how you manage to restrain China. And if you're

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Speaker 1: going to restrain China, you've got to have Australia on side.

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Speaker 1: So we also matter to America in its long term

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Speaker 1: struggle with China. So I think that Trump might be

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Speaker 1: annoyed for about five minutes. Remember he has the concentration

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Speaker 1: span of a flea, and then he'll move on to

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Speaker 1: some other issues. So I don't think it'll be long

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Speaker 1: term dangerous consequences for our relationship with the United States,

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Speaker 1: and our recognition of Palestine comes with a caveat, meaning

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Speaker 1: that HAMAS is no longer running the joint Is that true?

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Speaker 1: That's true. So HUMAS controls one part of the Palestinian entity,

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Speaker 1: which is on the Gaza Strip, and there's another Palestinian

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Speaker 1: organization that controls the West Bank, which is a much

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Speaker 1: larger area. And so what countries are saying, including the

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Speaker 1: Arab League. The Arab League is twenty two countries formed

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Speaker 1: after World War Two who could never agree on anything,

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Speaker 1: and yet in the last few days they've all come

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Speaker 1: together to agree that Hamas should not be part of

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Speaker 1: any sort of long term settlement in the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: So we're getting an international opposition to Harmas that's been

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Speaker 1: building up.

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Speaker 2: What impact will this have on Israel's decisions in the

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Speaker 2: next few weeks.

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Speaker 1: I don't think if I had much at all. Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Netane, who has expressed his anger at what Australia

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Speaker 1: has been doing along with France, UK, etc. But he's

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Speaker 1: got his own long term agenda for trying to reoccupy Gaza.

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Speaker 1: This is very controversial even within Israel itself. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who have worries about trying to

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Speaker 1: reoccupy all of Gaza, and that also includes his own

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Speaker 1: defense force. The head of his defense force has actually

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Speaker 1: come out and oppose the Prime Minister, which is bizarre.

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Speaker 1: So you've got worries in the defense Force, former intelligence

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Speaker 1: agencies and a lot of ordinary Israelians were saying, we

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Speaker 1: don't want to go back into that mess. Keep it,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to go back to reoccupying Gaza. So

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Speaker 1: Prime Medicine Leno, who's got one of the most difficult

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Speaker 1: jobs in the world, has got right wing members in

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Speaker 1: his cabinet keeping him in power, and they're the ones

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Speaker 1: who are saying we've got to reoccupied Gaza. Meanwhile, many

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Speaker 1: of his own citizens are saying, no, we don't agree

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Speaker 1: with that with.

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Speaker 2: This recent decision. What role do you think that the

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Speaker 2: recent protests have had and the people power we've seen.

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Speaker 1: I think that the protests, particularly the one that took

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Speaker 1: place in Sydney over the Harbor Bridge, has taken everybody

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Speaker 1: by surprise. It was dreadful weather, the rain was bucketing down,

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Speaker 1: and yet you had that record number of people attending

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Speaker 1: the rally. And I think that that would send a

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Speaker 1: clear message to the politicians that this is an issue

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Speaker 1: which has really touched people's hearts. I've been talking on

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Speaker 1: the Middle East now for half a century. I have

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Speaker 1: never yet before noticed how much sympathy there is now

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Speaker 1: for the Palestinian cause. There's been a real sea change

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Speaker 1: in opinion. Previously, people would have been very sympathetic towards Israel.

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Speaker 1: That's the environment in which I grew up in, you know,

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Speaker 1: brave little Israel, sort of taking on all the Arab countries, etc.

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Speaker 1: Now Israel is seen as an aggressor country, punishing poor Palestinians.

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Speaker 1: So there's been a huge sea change in public opinion,

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Speaker 1: and I think our politicians belatedly have come to realize

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Speaker 1: that there has been this change. And so, as you know,

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Speaker 1: with a politician, they always have to find the crowd

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Speaker 1: and they'd run in front of it. And that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what the Prime Minister has done. Well happened. If they

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Speaker 1: can sort it out, that'd be great. If I could

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Speaker 1: sort it out at the end of the year, we'd be.

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Speaker 2: Happy with that, and of the week it'd be great.

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Speaker 1: Look, I'm very pessimistic about the Middle East. You've got

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Speaker 1: too many people making too many claims on too little land,

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Speaker 1: so I think it's going to be very difficult to

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Speaker 1: have any long term peace settlement there. Well, doctor Keith Souda,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank

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Speaker 2: you very much.

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Speaker 1: Thank you