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Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

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Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

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Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amatha Inba. I'm an

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Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with

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Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize my work day. This episode is

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Speaker 1: another my favorite Tip episode. The title's probably pretty self explanatory.

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Speaker 1: It's about my favorite tip from each of the interviews

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Speaker 1: I conduct. I use this format because I sometimes feel

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Speaker 1: myself as a podcast listener that I just want to

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Speaker 1: get in, get the most amount of value from an episode,

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Speaker 1: and then get out. So in this format, I try

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Speaker 1: to do just that. My guest today is New York

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Speaker 1: Times journalist Nelly Bowls. Nellie covers tech and internet culture

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Speaker 1: for The Times. Before joining the Time, she was a

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Speaker 1: correspondent for Vice News Tonight, and she's also written for Recode,

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Speaker 1: The Guardian, and started her writing career at the San

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Speaker 1: Francisco Chronicle. In this excerpt about full interview, Nelly talks

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Speaker 1: about two really practical tips for being a better writer.

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Speaker 1: So on that note, over to Nelly, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know how I learned to write. How do you like?

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Speaker 2: You just purchased, and you read a lot and you

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Speaker 2: try to copy people. And I like read a lot

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Speaker 2: of Joan Gideon over and over and over again and

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Speaker 2: tried my best just to copy that sound. Or I

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Speaker 2: read a lot of ellen Berry's column was an amazing

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Speaker 2: coun corespondent for the time, over and over again, trying

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Speaker 2: my best to mirror that or whatever. I kind of

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Speaker 2: would pick people and try to write in conversation with

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Speaker 2: them a little bit. And it's like the only thing

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Speaker 2: that suits my temperament too, because like I don't have

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Speaker 2: a very good attention span. I really have trouble of

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Speaker 2: authority figures, which was horrid in school. I yeah, I know,

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Speaker 2: like to write, so really not a good attention to

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Speaker 2: stand trouble authority figures and likes to write during work

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Speaker 2: is like the only career path that's open to you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I got.

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Speaker 3: I want to know, like when you're trying to emulate

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Speaker 3: a writer, which I feel in and of itself, like

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Speaker 3: thinking that might seem completely normal, but I feel like

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Speaker 3: solutions out there that are not writers. I think that's

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Speaker 3: a really interesting concept, Like what are the sort of

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Speaker 3: things that you're looking for when like when you've tried

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Speaker 3: to emulate other people's dials, like what are those key

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Speaker 3: things that you're trying to I guess you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of copy in your way For me, I will.

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Speaker 2: Recently, I really like whether let's they're getting. I will

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Speaker 2: often read it aloud to myself, like to read a

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Speaker 2: paragraph allowed just to get her voice in her rhythm.

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Speaker 2: And then when I'm writing my own story, I usually

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Speaker 2: as I'm writing task got large to myself or I

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Speaker 2: read it out loud to myself. And if I don't

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Speaker 2: do that, it's usually a worst story. It usually means

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Speaker 2: and it's not saying that much attention to the writing.

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Speaker 2: But if I'm trying to like write something really pretty,

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Speaker 2: I want it to be Yeah, I speak it out loud.

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Speaker 2: And so if I'm trying to anulay a writer, I

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Speaker 2: kind of like try to get their ridden their voice.

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Speaker 2: It's I'm probably sounding crazy, not at all nic and

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Speaker 2: I sound like I'm like a nightmare coworker, and I

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Speaker 2: am a really a coworker. I'm talking out loud a lot,

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Speaker 2: But I don't think it's like every day. It's not

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Speaker 2: like I'm like sitting there like reading a writer and

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Speaker 2: then writing a sentence like I'll try to absorb as

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Speaker 2: much as I can, Like right now, I just read

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Speaker 2: I just finished Marjorie Williams's book, and she's a writer

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Speaker 2: who lies. She was a writer for the Washington Post

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Speaker 2: who wrote some of the most beautiful profiles of people

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Speaker 2: in DC for much of the nineties. And I write

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Speaker 2: a book, I you know, certain paragraphs would really pull

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Speaker 2: out for me, and so I would just say them

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Speaker 2: out loud and then try to incorporate some of that

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Speaker 2: into my story. So I she has this one sentence,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to give it a little bit wrong, but

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Speaker 2: it's like he had a smile, like a lot of

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Speaker 2: cash And I just loved that sentence and I love

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Speaker 2: the like santity of it, and so I've tried to

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Speaker 2: sort of incorporate more sentences that solf. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: that's great.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting, the idea of reading out loud. I recently

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Speaker 4: interviewed Dan Pink's for the show, and he said the

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Speaker 4: exact same thing. He like, will literally read or ask

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Speaker 4: his wife to read his entire book out loud.

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Speaker 2: Really good to do. Yeah, there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: really smart people who can articulate arguments really beautifully. And

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Speaker 2: you see them right, and they get all tangled up

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Speaker 2: in themselves and so and I find myself I get

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Speaker 2: all tangled up sometimes in my writing. And if you

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Speaker 2: just take it away and just like speak the story,

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Speaker 2: like say what you want, everything becomes very clear. I

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Speaker 2: think that's like a bait writing. I'm not discovering that,

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Speaker 2: but it really does help. Hi.

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Speaker 1: There, it's me again. I hope you found that useful.

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Speaker 1: I must say, I find the tip of emulating a

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Speaker 1: writer that you really like really interesting. I remember back,

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Speaker 1: maybe when I was a teenager, my mom gave me

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Speaker 1: really similar advice, and I should at this point say

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Speaker 1: my mom is a psychologist and a writer kind of

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Speaker 1: like me. She's written about ten books I think at

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Speaker 1: last count or something like that, and she said if

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Speaker 1: I spent more time reading great writers, it would help

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Speaker 1: me be a better writer. So when I'm writing now

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Speaker 1: in my adult life. A couple of my favorite writers

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Speaker 1: in the sort of business nonfiction genre are the Heath brothers,

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Speaker 1: Chip and Dan Heath. I think that they have such

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Speaker 1: great skill in dissecting complex research and turning it into

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Speaker 1: really practical and memorable ideas and frameworks, and are also

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Speaker 1: amazing storytellers and so on the occasions where I've been

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Speaker 1: writing a book or maybe feeling a bit stuck with

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Speaker 1: my writing, I'll pick up one of their books and

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Speaker 1: I'll maybe read a chapter or two to help get

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Speaker 1: their voice in their head. And then, of course, when

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Speaker 1: I get back to the computer to writing, trying to

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Speaker 1: still use my own voice too. I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: that sounds a bit weird, but it's something I do

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Speaker 1: and I find it really really helpful just getting as

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Speaker 1: many great writing voices into my head. This kind of

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Speaker 1: helps me get into the mood and get into flow.

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Speaker 1: So that is it for today's show. If you liked

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Speaker 1: this excerpt, you might want to listen to my full

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Speaker 1: chat with Nelly, which I link to in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't currently subscribe to How I Work

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Speaker 1: but you enjoy it today's show, why not hit the

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Speaker 1: subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts and you

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Speaker 1: will get alerted whenever a new episode arrives. So that's

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Speaker 1: it for today, and I'll see you next time.