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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcasts. My name's doctor

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Speaker 1: Justin Coulson. And today a question that most parents grapple

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Speaker 1: with frequently. How do you feel about your eleven year

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Speaker 1: old riding their bike to the park to play for

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Speaker 1: a few hours without your oversight? What about if they're

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Speaker 1: going to walk to the corner shop alone, or they're

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Speaker 1: just going to walk the dog around the block or

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Speaker 1: meet a friend at the local playground without you hovering nearby.

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Speaker 1: If those scenarios make your stomach clench and your mind

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Speaker 1: raise through all those worst case scenarios, I'm sure you're

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Speaker 1: not alone. But here is the question that might make

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Speaker 1: you even more uncomfortable. What if the riskiest thing you

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Speaker 1: can do as a parent is never letting your child

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Speaker 1: take any risks at all. Today we're tackling the independence

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Speaker 1: dilemma that is defining modern parenting. Stay with us. Hello,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to The Happy Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every Day.

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Speaker 1: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting We're Justin and Kylie Colson,

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Speaker 1: and every Tuesday on the podcast we ask your tricky questions.

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Speaker 1: If you would like us to answer your tricky question,

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Speaker 1: we'd love to do it. Here's how you go about it.

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Speaker 1: Visit Happy Families dot com dot you. We've got a

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Speaker 1: super simple system where you just click the button and

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Speaker 1: start talking. So that simple, and we might feature your

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Speaker 1: question on the pod just like Teresa from Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Hi there, my name is Teresa. I'm from Lily Dahl

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Speaker 2: in Victoria. My question is just regarding independence, like letting

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Speaker 2: your child leave the house on their own to go

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Speaker 2: to the park or ride their bike, or go to

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Speaker 2: the shop or meet a friend. My child is twelve

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Speaker 2: in year seven next year. Currently, I don't feel safe

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Speaker 2: letting him go out anywhere on his own. And should

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Speaker 2: I be letting go a bit? I'm not sure? Thank you.

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Speaker 3: This is such a tricky one. The heartstrings of any

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Speaker 3: mother gets pulled a bit here because we want our

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Speaker 3: kids to be safe. Ultimately, we want our kids to

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Speaker 3: be safe.

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Speaker 1: Can I sound like a bit of a grump? I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's tricky at all.

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Speaker 3: You're hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a difference between danger and risk.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I understand that.

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Speaker 1: So danger can the child assess what's going on, yes

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Speaker 1: or no? If yes, assess the risks and go for it.

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Speaker 1: If they can't, assess the danger. Then as a parent,

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Speaker 1: you step in and say no. And I think, well,

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Speaker 1: twelve year olds, twelve year olds are pretty good at

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Speaker 1: assessing whether they can cross a road or whether a

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Speaker 1: park feels safe, and they're going to do it one

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Speaker 1: hundred p cent perfectly. No, but I think they can

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Speaker 1: do it.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the difference between the average male and

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Speaker 3: the average female in this situation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the research would certainly agree with you on that.

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Speaker 1: Dad's a much more.

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Speaker 3: I had that baby inside me.

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Speaker 1: When our daughter walks out to nine month But when

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Speaker 1: our daughter walks through the part of me, my heart

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Speaker 1: goes with her and my stomach clenches, and I think,

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Speaker 1: is she going to be okay? And maybe she could

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Speaker 1: just stay in the street instead of going around the block.

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Speaker 1: Like I still have that feeling, But as a dad,

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Speaker 1: knowing that it's good for her to be able to

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Speaker 1: have those experiences, I'm like, go for it. And then

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Speaker 1: I just hold my breath for the seventeen and a

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Speaker 1: half minutes until she gets back. It's really good for

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Speaker 1: my breath holding activity, right, But it's good for them

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Speaker 1: to do this.

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Speaker 3: We understand that it's good for them. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: that it's comfortable anyone.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not suggesting that it's comfortable at all. I'm

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Speaker 1: saying it's good for them to do it. Look, here

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Speaker 1: are the stats, and this is not going to make

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Speaker 1: anyone feel better, But the stats tell us that the

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Speaker 1: twenty four hour news media cycle makes us think the

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Speaker 1: world's a dangerous place and that everyone's going to get kidnapped.

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Speaker 1: It's just not the reality. Safest time in human history

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Speaker 1: for children is where we're living right now. Also the

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Speaker 1: most anxious time for parents right now. Why because we.

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Speaker 3: Have access to more than we've ever had.

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Speaker 1: Actually, we have access to all of this information, and

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Speaker 1: so we find out about this one thing that happens

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the country or the other

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Speaker 1: side of the world, and we think that it's going

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Speaker 1: to happen right now, right here in our neighborhood. And

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Speaker 1: the evidence doesn't support that there is risk.

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Speaker 3: But I also think this collective fear that has taken

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Speaker 3: hold of communities in general, whereas back when we were growing.

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Speaker 1: Up, every did not exist at all.

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Speaker 3: Everybody let their kids go and do whatever they whatever

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Speaker 3: they want.

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Speaker 1: Hay Writ's about in the next generation, we've moved from

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Speaker 1: this play based child and the screen based child. And

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Speaker 1: it's partly because of this twenty four hour news cycle

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Speaker 1: that tells us that we are supposed to be anxious

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Speaker 1: and paranoid every time our child leaves our front door steps.

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Speaker 3: Well, at our house, we've got complete control over what happens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm not arguing for being lax. The anxiety

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Speaker 1: that you feel as a parent is appropriate because your

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Speaker 1: job is to protect your young But I just think

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Speaker 1: the reality checks important. I sound like I'm getting cranky

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Speaker 1: at Teresa. I'm not cranky. I'm probably more cranky at

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Speaker 1: the world than anything. If anything, context matters.

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Speaker 3: Like anything, Understanding what it is that you're actually deciding

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Speaker 3: on makes all the difference. Do you feel safe in

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Speaker 3: your suburb? Do you know people along the route that

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Speaker 3: the kids could stop in if they felt unsafe or

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Speaker 3: needed a drink of water, or needed to go to

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Speaker 3: the bathroom. Are they meeting friends at the park? How

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Speaker 3: far away is the park? How many roads are they

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Speaker 3: going to have to cross? Do they have to cross

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Speaker 3: busy roads? Are they going to be at traffic lights

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Speaker 3: or are they going to be having to assess the

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Speaker 3: crossing of that without any external help?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So I'm not suggesting that we just send a

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Speaker 1: twelve year old out of the void if they've never

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Speaker 1: had that experience before. You want to start with small

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Speaker 1: things like walking the dog up and down the street,

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Speaker 1: and then let it expand from there. We had a

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Speaker 1: friend in her friend acquaintance, somebody that we knew in

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Speaker 1: one of the previous places that we've lived, who had

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Speaker 1: a seventeen year old son who wasn't allowed to ride

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Speaker 1: his bike a kilometer down the street to the road.

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Speaker 1: And it was on back suburban streets, it wasn't on

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Speaker 1: busy roads. Because this mother was so overprotective, so anxious

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Speaker 1: that her son was not allowed to do this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was bonkers. But here's the other thing.

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Speaker 1: We might be making too big a deal out of this,

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Speaker 1: because guess what, the kid was still pretty well adjusted,

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Speaker 1: and he went on to live a pretty fun life,

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Speaker 1: and he's turned into a pretty decent adult by all reports.

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Speaker 1: But at the time, I mean, this poor kid, he

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Speaker 1: was told that he had to stay in his house,

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Speaker 1: and I just don't I don't think that that's useful.

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Speaker 1: Independence is going to work best when you are guiding

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Speaker 1: your children through things bit by bit, giving them, staged

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Speaker 1: opportunities to develop and experience practicing shorter trips, building that independence,

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Speaker 1: building the community, making things feel safer.

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Speaker 3: Even though this is really difficult for mums, and especially

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Speaker 3: that first time. If this is the first time you've

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Speaker 3: ever let your kids out of your sight and they're

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Speaker 3: doing something solo, there is something just so crazy hard.

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Speaker 3: It hurts. It hurts, you're scared, you're anxious, all of

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Speaker 3: the things. But there's something awesome that happens when our

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Speaker 3: kids get to do something that that number one they

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Speaker 3: knew you were worried about, and they get to prove

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Speaker 3: you wrong. They get to prove you that to you

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Speaker 3: that number one they're capable of it. Number two that

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Speaker 3: nothing happened, and number three, the sense of independence that

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Speaker 3: they get. It's just its sores. It's such a confidence

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Speaker 3: boost for them, and it is absolutely a confident boost

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Speaker 3: for parents, yeah, as they experience it's the same thing

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Speaker 3: alongside their kids.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, when I was roaming neighborhoods for hours,

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Speaker 1: our parents had no way of tracking this at all. Today,

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Speaker 1: we've got mobile phones, we've got GPS tracking, constant communication

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Speaker 1: options that our parents can only dream of. After the break,

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about some really practical steps that we can

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Speaker 1: take to help our seven year olds, nine year olds,

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Speaker 1: or twel year olds or fifteen year olds to become

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Speaker 1: that little bit more independent and have time outside away

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Speaker 1: from parents and away from the house to grow up

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Okay, Kylie, a couple of practical steps

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Speaker 1: things that we can do to help our children to

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Speaker 1: encounter the world safely. I'm going to go first, starting young.

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Speaker 1: I think that we want to be walking roots with

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Speaker 1: our kids, pointing out landmarks, discussing what to do if

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Speaker 1: something goes wrong. Giving our kids these I'm going to

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Speaker 1: call it a dry run or a supervised run, giving

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Speaker 1: them experience being out there and doing it.

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Speaker 3: We're telling them they're going to be the leader, and

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Speaker 3: they're the ones who are actually going to navigate the trip.

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Speaker 3: Even though you're with them, they get to make the decisions.

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Speaker 3: Are we turning left or right at this intersection? Do

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Speaker 3: we have to cross the road here, Helping them to

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Speaker 3: kind of feel like they're in charge of the family outing.

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Speaker 1: You tell me when it's safe across the road, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll go yeah, and then you pull them back

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Speaker 1: when they say okay, let's go at it, done that

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Speaker 1: more than once, done that more than once the second

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Speaker 1: thing you touched on already, and it's really important to

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Speaker 1: highlight this come up a couple of times in the podcast.

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Speaker 1: When you have built community, when people know who you

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Speaker 1: are in the neighborhood and you know them, it makes

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Speaker 1: it much better so that if your children are ever uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: they know that they can knock on this door here

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Speaker 1: or that door there. This is one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: that I'm much more for public schooling than private schooling,

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Speaker 1: because you get to know the neighborhood, you get to

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Speaker 1: know the families a lot more, and the kids know

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Speaker 1: that they can bang on this door or that door

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Speaker 1: if they're feeling nervous or worried. We've covered that off

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Speaker 1: a couple of times. Independence is just easier when there's

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Speaker 1: multiple families on board. And of course, when there's multiple

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Speaker 1: families on board, your child is probably going to be

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Speaker 1: hanging out with their kids at the park anyway, like

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Speaker 1: they'll pick one another up the route, so they're not

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Speaker 1: going to be traveling solo everywhere.

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Speaker 3: And you also don't feel like you're doing it on

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Speaker 3: your own. The more connection you've got with other families,

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Speaker 3: the chances are that their children will be doing the

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Speaker 3: same things alongside your child, So your child isn't actually

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Speaker 3: doing anything solo, They're actually doing it with a handful

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Speaker 3: of trusted friends.

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Speaker 1: Third thing that I would add, and again we've kind

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Speaker 1: of touched on this, but I want to be extremely

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Speaker 1: explicit about it. We've got to teach our kids. I

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Speaker 1: don't think there's benefits of teaching stranger danger. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's helpful because usually you are going to be

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Speaker 1: expecting your child to approach a stranger if they're worried.

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Speaker 3: Well, not only that, I think it creates an unnecessary

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Speaker 3: anxiety in our children that everyone's unsafe, which is just

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Speaker 3: you can't trust anyone.

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Speaker 1: It's such an unhealthy way to approach the world. So

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Speaker 1: rather than teaching strange danger, I'd rather just teach them

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Speaker 1: this thing that we can call situational awareness. So help

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Speaker 1: them to identify anybody who might be behaving in a

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Speaker 1: tricky or an undesirable manner and to avoid them, and

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Speaker 1: help them to identify safe adults because if they ever

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Speaker 1: need help, they can go to those safe adults. And

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Speaker 1: at a hierarchy in our home, you look for parents

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Speaker 1: with kids, usually mums, I mean, unfortunately, I hate to

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Speaker 1: say it. If any child ever came to me, I

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Speaker 1: know they'd be safe, and most men are. But statistically

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Speaker 1: your child is much more likely to be harmed by

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Speaker 1: a bloke than a woman. So we've always said find

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Speaker 1: a lady, find a lady with children. We'll go to

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Speaker 1: a shop owner, or find somebody in uniform. Worst case scenario,

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Speaker 1: you walk up to any stranger, because the likelihood is

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Speaker 1: that almost any stranger is going to be safe compared

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Speaker 1: to the stranger that's making you feel or the tricky

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Speaker 1: person who's making you feel unsafe. So having that situational awareness,

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Speaker 1: knowing what cars are around and that kind of thing

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Speaker 1: will just help your children to be safe.

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Speaker 3: And the last thing is just recognizing what would be

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Speaker 3: considered an age appropriate expectation. If you've got a twelve

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Speaker 3: year old, they're quite capable of walking to the park

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Speaker 3: as long as you've ticked all those boxes and you

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Speaker 3: feel like everything's okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, probably not for a seven year old though. No,

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Speaker 1: unless you're in Japan and you're sending it down to

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Speaker 1: the shops to kill them. It's way for some milk,

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Speaker 1: because apparently that's what they do there that have you?

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Speaker 1: That TV show, It's amazing Anyway, I digress. In Australia,

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Speaker 1: the expectation would be that your children will be old

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Speaker 1: enough to be able to assess the risks and take

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Speaker 1: appropriate action.

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Speaker 3: So as a twelve year old heading into year seven,

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Speaker 3: I would suggest that maybe he's a little bit behind

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Speaker 3: in independence compared to the average child.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think know about in twenty twenty five, but

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Speaker 1: certainly throughout history, absolutely throughout history. In twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing more and more parents who are doing this.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's healthy. I don't think that it's appropriate.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's what our kids need. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: actually he probably is still a little bit behind the

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Speaker 1: average even in twenty twenty five. Yeah, depending on the neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think this is about him pushing too hard.

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Speaker 3: I think it's actually about giving him the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: catch up.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we really hope Terris, that this has been

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Speaker 1: a helpful conversation for you. Thanks so much for getting

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Speaker 1: in touch. If you have a tricky question for us,

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Speaker 1: please send us a voice note podcasts at Happy Families

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Speaker 1: send us a voice note, you can just go to

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Speaker 1: happy families dot com Do I you and click on

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Speaker 1: the record button start talking. It's literally that simple. Another

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Speaker 1: tricky question next week. The Happy Families podcast is produced

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Speaker 1: You