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Speaker 1: Hey guys, before we get going on this, this is

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Speaker 1: just a reminder that you can contact Lifeline at any

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Speaker 1: stage on thirteen eleven fourteen. If anything in this podcast

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Speaker 1: is triggering for you, make you feeling alone, anything like that,

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Speaker 1: If you want to speak to somebody, you always can

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Speaker 1: speak to somebody in Australia. It's an amazing service. Thirteen

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Speaker 1: eleven fourteen is the number four Lifeline and yeah, give

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Speaker 1: them a call whenever you need. All right, So welcome

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Speaker 1: to this special on controlling people and how scary they

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Speaker 1: can be. And hopefully we're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: sort of cover this from the perspective of the person

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Speaker 1: who is controlling or dominant and how much you sort

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Speaker 1: of dislike yourself when you're like that, and then on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, from the outside or from the people

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Speaker 1: that have to be with them and live with them

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Speaker 1: and work with them, and how to handle those people

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Speaker 1: or deal with them in those circumstances. So, if you

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Speaker 1: missed it last week, I spoke about this on air

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Speaker 1: because I was really hating on myself last week and

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Speaker 1: I sort of realized that's because I was one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons sort of catalyzing my dislike for myself was

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Speaker 1: how controlling I was being and how much that was

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Speaker 1: obviously affecting everybody around me. When you are a controlling

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Speaker 1: personality type or you're a dominant personality type and you

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Speaker 1: don't like yourself or you're suffering, you can't control that.

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Speaker 1: You still want to control things, but your control goes

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Speaker 1: into overdrive and so you projected onto everything else around you,

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Speaker 1: which ultimately means that you just dislike yourself more because

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Speaker 1: you're not dealing with the issue and you're hurting the

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Speaker 1: people around you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, really is a self sourcing pudding, isn't it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately all those like really great demons in psychology, are

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Speaker 1: they all feed into each other? M Yeah, there's no

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Speaker 1: like isolated puddings.

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Speaker 3: They're all there were.

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Speaker 4: Just once give us a simple poets, what a dry

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Speaker 4: put ma get a self sourcing one?

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Speaker 1: Self sources al right, Well, to talk to us a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about this all the way from The

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Speaker 1: Perfect Podcasts is doctor Emily Mausgrove, who join us right now.

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Speaker 5: Welcome, Emily, Oh, thank you so much, thanks please for

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Speaker 5: having me.

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Speaker 4: Of course, we absolutely love your work on The Imperfect,

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Speaker 4: Dr Emily, So this is pretty special that You've given

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Speaker 4: us the time.

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Speaker 2: To talk to you about this.

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Speaker 5: That's very kind.

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Speaker 4: So I know, Emily you listened, I believe to the

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Speaker 4: entire chat between Will and I that we did last Thursday.

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Speaker 4: I think my first question to you is, given your

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Speaker 4: background of being a psychologist, what is this and what

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Speaker 4: exactly is going on there?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, look, there's probably a lot of different different

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Speaker 5: things that are going on there, and in some ways,

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Speaker 5: obviously without being Will therapist. You know, I don't want

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Speaker 5: to be too kind of analytical on that basis.

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Speaker 3: But it's not a job application, Emily.

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Speaker 5: But I guess the things that stood out to me,

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Speaker 5: you know, around that was coming from this place of suffering,

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Speaker 5: and that you know, in this place of suffering when

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Speaker 5: we're having a really hard time, you know, we often

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Speaker 5: seek to control or get rid of certain feelings, and

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Speaker 5: sometimes for some people that can come across as kind

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Speaker 5: of controlling behaviors which are really very much linked to

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Speaker 5: that experience also of anger. So how I would often

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Speaker 5: say that would be you know, particularly in the case

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Speaker 5: of when there's an experience of anxiety or an experience

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Speaker 5: of like a depressive episode or low mood, that they

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Speaker 5: can be really kind of common features.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah it's funny and I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah ten points, Emily, well done, good stuff in the game. No,

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Speaker 1: it is that is one hundred percent thing I think.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things I want to point

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Speaker 1: out here is that the what is suffering for me

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Speaker 1: might be different for different people as well, So there's

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Speaker 1: no like and I appreciate you, Emily not digging too far.

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Speaker 1: I have got a box of tissues in front of me.

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Speaker 1: If you need to dig more, you definitely can. But

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Speaker 1: I think the point to make is that the and

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, but that sort of manifesting

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Speaker 1: of controlling behavior is indicative of some sort of suffering,

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Speaker 1: But knowing what the underlying suffering is is a different question.

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Speaker 1: So sort of treating two different things here, like you're

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Speaker 1: either addressing the controlling behavior and then hopefully letting you

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Speaker 1: get at the suffering. But if you are a controlling person,

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Speaker 1: or you're struggling with this, or you know someone who's

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Speaker 1: like this, the underlying form is going to be different

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Speaker 1: depending on the person.

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Speaker 4: So I think in this forever our time with Dodger, Emily,

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Speaker 4: and unless you do want to unpack it a bit more,

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Speaker 4: that's probably the suffering side is probably more a chat

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Speaker 4: for you to have with your therapist.

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Speaker 1: Well, I spoke to him on the phone beforehand, and

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Speaker 1: so she's got full license to ask any questions that

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Speaker 1: she needs.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Well, I won't go too deep into your experience,

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Speaker 5: but I guess one of the things that was that

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Speaker 5: was standing out for me was, you know what sits

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Speaker 5: at the heart of kind of control, being that kind

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Speaker 5: of need for safety and predictability and the intolerance perhaps

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Speaker 5: of uncertainty. How would that kind of sit for your experience?

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Speaker 1: Will Uh, yeah, I think I'm just trying to think

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Speaker 1: back to.

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Speaker 6: The need for control.

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Speaker 1: I think weirdly, and this is something I've covered with

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Speaker 1: my therapist before. Weirdly, sometimes the need for control is

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Speaker 1: if I'm in control, then I get attention, and then

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Speaker 1: and I get attention, and I need attention when I'm

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Speaker 1: sort of like needing love, and it's almost like a

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Speaker 1: bit of a cry for help.

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Speaker 3: So it's if I if.

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Speaker 1: I'm needing love or I'm not feeling love, or then yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I can get my hands on everything, then that

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Speaker 1: means people have to pay attention to me, and then

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Speaker 1: that kind of fills that void a little bit. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's that's I think that's what it really what it

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Speaker 1: gets to, and it's I think it really comes from

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Speaker 1: being a kid and being in a you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of without not unpack this box too much, but it

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Speaker 1: is one hundred percent looking for my looking for my parents' love.

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Speaker 5: M M. And I think that. I mean that's a

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Speaker 5: really honest, kind of heartfelt sense in there, like in

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Speaker 5: a lot of ways too. I mean, this is relevant

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Speaker 5: for all of us as humans, is this kind of

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Speaker 5: innate need to belong and the innate need to feel loved.

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Speaker 5: And you know, sometimes we all have different ways of

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Speaker 5: feeling that or striving or achieving that sense of feeling loved.

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Speaker 5: And there may have been some really adaptive things that

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Speaker 5: happened for us when we were little that allowed us

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Speaker 5: to feel really seen and to feel really loved, and

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Speaker 5: that those skills at that time were really useful. But

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Speaker 5: sometimes what can happen is into like adulthood, those skills

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Speaker 5: actually come with some problems, so that way of seeking

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Speaker 5: a sense of feeling loved or feeling belonging might actually

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Speaker 5: be detrimental to those relationships.

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Speaker 1: It's funny, like we were talking about, well, I've had

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Speaker 1: this chat with you Van Kyleenberg before, and I know

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Speaker 1: you obviously done a lot of work with the Imperfect podcast.

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Speaker 1: But I haven't spoken to him about this further. But

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Speaker 1: he I know one of the things he spoke about

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Speaker 1: that he does in scenarios is hell, he used to sort.

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Speaker 3: Of show off or act out.

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Speaker 1: To you know again, get attention and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: lift mood and you know, all that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, I haven't spoken to him about

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Speaker 1: this any further. I'm making assumptions, but that sort of

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Speaker 1: screams out to me as another way of you know,

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Speaker 1: how can I how can I lift the mood here?

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Speaker 1: How can I make myself feel better here? How can

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Speaker 1: I feel love in this scenario?

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Speaker 2: Definitely?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, and so kind of in curious kind of

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Speaker 5: in contrast to that experience will when you're feeling really

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Speaker 5: good yep, how does that need pretension differ?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I think what I'm feeling really good, like.

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Speaker 3: It all kind of ties in.

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Speaker 1: And I do want to, you know, thank you for

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Speaker 1: asking me that you a question about where this comes from,

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Speaker 1: because I think it's important for people to realize that

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Speaker 1: a lot of their ailments they shouldn't blame themselves for

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Speaker 1: but it is just coming from a place of a

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Speaker 1: lack of love at some stage in your life, whether

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Speaker 1: that's now or in the past or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: And I hope other people can relate to that. But

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Speaker 1: I think the other thing is that I was talking

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Speaker 1: to Woody about this before that when I am like that,

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Speaker 1: and if I take myself back to when I was

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Speaker 1: like that last week, the really really hard thing to

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Speaker 1: see is how much it's hurting everybody else, and then

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Speaker 1: consequently how everybody is obviously avoiding me and talking about me.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when I do the radio show, I

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Speaker 1: sit in here in a chair with lights on me

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Speaker 1: and a microphone in front of my face and just

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Speaker 1: glass walls where I can look at everyone and I

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Speaker 1: can see whatever one's thinking and talking about and doing,

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Speaker 1: and it's really hard not to be like, I've totally

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Speaker 1: things here.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting though, the fact that you assume we're all

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Speaker 4: talking about you, of course, which again is the other

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Speaker 4: thing which I'm sure your mind is doing. Like if

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Speaker 4: there was a show recently, and which is probably it

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Speaker 4: was the show before we had this chat on air,

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Speaker 4: and yeah, Will was in the studio and in all

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Speaker 4: the breaks he had his headphones on and was very

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Speaker 4: focused on his laptop, And obviously that was a bit

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Speaker 4: of a coping mechanism to.

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Speaker 2: Get through the show.

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Speaker 4: But it's so interesting to hear you talk about the

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Speaker 4: fact that you made the assumption that we were all

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Speaker 4: talking about it, but probably there was a few comments,

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Speaker 4: but it wasn't really the case, but it must be.

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Speaker 4: But again, it's I think it's an insight into where

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Speaker 4: your head's at during that.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely you assume.

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Speaker 2: That that's the conversation that everyone's doing.

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Speaker 5: And then it's interesting too, because what happens with that

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Speaker 5: assumption is that then you will monitor or change your behavior,

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Speaker 5: and so we start reacting or responding to these perceived

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Speaker 5: kind of acchues of criticism. And it's been actually that

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Speaker 5: behavior that can then cause an actual experience of criticism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. And it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I know, we'll get into this very shortly, but I

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Speaker 1: was talking to Woods before about, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: what can you do in that scenario, and I was saying, well, like,

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Speaker 1: in that scenario, when I'm in here and I've obviously

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Speaker 1: put my headphones on and I don't want to speak

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Speaker 1: to everyone that because I've taken myself out of the equation,

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Speaker 1: like I don't want to speak to anyone because I

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Speaker 1: think I'm going to hurt them. But it's really hard

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Speaker 1: for me in that situation when you know, I become

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Speaker 1: really scary, and I know that I'm scary, but in

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Speaker 1: that situation, no one wants to sort of be around me,

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Speaker 1: and so naturally my assumption is they're avoiding me.

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Speaker 6: Look how much I've hurt them. I feel awful.

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Speaker 1: About this, and then that sort of self perpetuates, which

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Speaker 1: I suppose hopefully. I mean, please let me know if

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Speaker 1: you want to talk more about the first person inside

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Speaker 1: of this. But I think sort of dovetails really nicely

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Speaker 1: into how the people around me can sort of help

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Speaker 1: me in that scenario and react in that scenario.

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Speaker 5: Can I ask you just before we get to that.

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Speaker 5: I think that's really important. Do you have a sentence,

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Speaker 5: like from your experience, do you have a sense when

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Speaker 5: you're in that space what it is that you need

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Speaker 5: from other people?

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Speaker 3: M Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 1: Probably forgiveness is a big one for me. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was talking to I think that's, you know, weirdly, probably

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Speaker 1: the reason that I ended up with the person that

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Speaker 1: I'm with at the moment. My partner sem is like,

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Speaker 1: when I was like this and she first saw me

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Speaker 1: like this, she didn't judge me for it, Like she

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Speaker 1: was just like, that's totally fine. Why would I have

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Speaker 1: an issue with that? That's just what's going on. And

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Speaker 1: I think, and I know, that's really hard to sort

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Speaker 1: of and sometimes you know, she can say to me,

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Speaker 1: I can't deal with you right now.

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Speaker 3: That's too much for me to deal with.

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Speaker 1: But she's very good at divorcing herself from you know,

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Speaker 1: her reaction or her emotions to me and just sort

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Speaker 1: of forgiving me for what's going on and not treating

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Speaker 1: me differently for what's going on. And I think that

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Speaker 1: is that that's kind of what I need, because, as

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Speaker 1: what he mentioned at the very start of this, it's

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Speaker 1: a self sourcing pudding. So if I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: putting people out and then they are put out, which

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Speaker 1: is so natural, that will then feedback into me going, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm an asshole, and then that will refeed that you

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Speaker 1: dislike yourself thing, and then that will again reignite the fear,

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Speaker 1: which will reignite the control.

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Speaker 3: So it's just this, which is hinds why it's in it.

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Speaker 1: It's in the spiral, which is hence why I yet, Well,

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Speaker 1: when that was there, was there last week, literally came

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Speaker 1: in here, plugged my headphones in and just was like,

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Speaker 1: I need to stop interacting with people because this is

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Speaker 1: this is going south very very fast.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's kind of sounds like you don't trust yourself

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Speaker 5: to be able to have a kind of safe, calm

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Speaker 5: conversation in those moments, so it's easier to almost like

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Speaker 5: it's easier to withdraw yourself.

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Speaker 1: You well, yeah, I think so. I think when I

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Speaker 1: look in hindsight, when I think about that, I am

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Speaker 1: that those that when that kind of spiral has gone

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Speaker 1: out of control. That's that's that's definitely the closest that

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Speaker 1: I've come to killing myself.

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Speaker 3: Is not knowing.

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Speaker 1: Not knowing like just not knowing an alternative and not

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Speaker 1: knowing when that's going to end.

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Speaker 5: And that's an that's incredibly hard place to be in.

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Speaker 5: And I can hear in that space how the mind

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Speaker 5: gets so narrowed, so our cognition becomes really narrow and

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Speaker 5: that that then kind of leads us down that path

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Speaker 5: of you know, of suffering and so that in some

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Speaker 5: ways there's a natural end to that in some ways

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Speaker 5: when those thoughts do show up. Yeah, that's that's I think,

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Speaker 5: really such a brave thing to share. And a really

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Speaker 5: important piece of this is, you know how you know

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Speaker 5: how much suffering there is in that in a critic?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's why I really wanted to

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Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't. Why I wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: this initially was because I know there are so many

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Speaker 1: people like that, and I assume I assume bad things

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Speaker 1: about people that are controlling or bossy or dominant. I

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Speaker 1: just do it, like everyone does, you know, because of

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Speaker 1: that She's a bossy bitch, he's an asshole whatever.

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Speaker 2: Like you just you just do so you make the

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Speaker 2: same judgments about yourself.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: I make the same judgments about myself, but I think,

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Speaker 1: funnily enough, and I don't occurre me if I'm wrong here, Emily,

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Speaker 1: But I made the I kind of extrapolated this into

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Speaker 1: I feel like there are a lot of people that

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Speaker 1: do suicide who which this happens all the time. Everyone

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Speaker 1: turns around and goes I never expected that, Like, where

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Speaker 1: the hell did that come from?

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Speaker 3: And a lot of a lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: I feel like those people are very high achieving people,

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Speaker 1: and that's why that that conversation happens.

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Speaker 3: If I'd never expected from them, oh my god, where

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Speaker 3: did it come from? With them?

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Speaker 1: But it wouldn't surprise me if those people are the

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Speaker 1: people that are particularly and most susceptible to this. I

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Speaker 1: call it limbic brain, call it survival brain, call it

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Speaker 1: doing doing brain. That's the that's their addiction, is that brain,

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Speaker 1: and they can't get out of that, and it manifests,

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Speaker 1: it manifests in a way it's really intolerable to be

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Speaker 1: around personally for other people. But on the inside it is.

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Speaker 1: If it's hard to be around on the outside, on

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Speaker 1: the inside it's like molten lava.

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Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, I think that's really spot on. And I

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Speaker 5: think two in terms of you know how you work

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Speaker 5: with that, One of the biggest things for me is

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Speaker 5: how then you bring in some self compassion when there's

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Speaker 5: so much suffering.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's and I mean, that's a whole nother ballgame

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Speaker 7: to kind of talk about that, but I think kind

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Speaker 7: of really recognizing that that that in a critic comes

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Speaker 7: with so much suffering, you know, is you know how

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Speaker 7: do we slow this down enough so we can kind

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Speaker 7: of interrupt or circuit.

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Speaker 5: Break that limbic brain. And part of that is self

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Speaker 5: compassion and that also ties in then to how other

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Speaker 5: people can can work within you when you're really having

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Speaker 5: a tough time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the self can passion points a great one.

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Speaker 1: We can, as you said that that is probably another conversation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so maybe we.

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Speaker 1: Can park that we might be able to touch on that

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Speaker 1: again with you, Emily, if that's okay, and let's move

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Speaker 1: into the people on the outside.

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Speaker 4: I'm keen to ask you, I think, and again, it's

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Speaker 4: so interesting since since you spoke about it on air

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Speaker 4: on Thursday, excuse me, it's already sparked so many conversations

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Speaker 4: off there between the two of us, and you know,

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Speaker 4: starting to talk amongst the team, and I mean, and

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Speaker 4: that's why we do these conversations, right, because you know,

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Speaker 4: it sparks more understanding and awareness of what someone's going through.

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Speaker 4: But Emily, I think the from the discussions we've had,

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Speaker 4: I think the part as the person on the other end,

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Speaker 4: as the person seeing Will in this situation. And we've

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Speaker 4: known each other long enough now where I described it

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Speaker 4: before as my spidery senses, they can start tingling a

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Speaker 4: little bit and I'm like, oh, I think maybe we

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Speaker 4: could be in that area. And I think that becomes

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Speaker 4: hardest when we're potentially in a let's say, a brainstorm

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Speaker 4: or a team meeting, and Will might be very passionate

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Speaker 4: about a certain point and to the point where it's

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Speaker 4: a really hard word to describe it. But it's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: maybe that was a bit aggressive in making that point,

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Speaker 4: for example, and I might be on the other end

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Speaker 4: of that disagreeing with that, and then I've been hurt

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Speaker 4: potentially by what's been said, and that might be me,

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Speaker 4: it might be another one of the team members. And

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Speaker 4: it feels like in that situation when I've been hurt

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Speaker 4: by a comment. And again, it's not bad, Will, so

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Speaker 4: please don't feel bad, but you can. You can feel

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Speaker 4: hurt by it and.

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Speaker 3: It is bad though, like it's not I know it's

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Speaker 3: not bad, but.

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Speaker 1: I think it is worth labeling it for what it

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Speaker 1: is because there are people that I have to be

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Speaker 1: around this sort of stuff and it's hard.

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Speaker 3: It hurts you.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so you can be hurt by it.

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Speaker 4: And then I think by bringing up after that, hey,

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Speaker 4: are you okay or are you feeling okay? Almost feels

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Speaker 4: like it's it's belittling the argument that he had in

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Speaker 4: the room, or it's like.

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Speaker 1: Begin news analogy with the analogy I had in the

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Speaker 1: room before. And you know, Emily, I'm glad you're a woman,

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Speaker 1: but because like it's like telling it's like when you

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Speaker 1: have a part you have an argument with a woman,

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Speaker 1: largely your partner, and you realize that they're like far

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Speaker 1: more emotional than usual, and you ask them if they're

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Speaker 1: on their period, and then that's just like the worst

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Speaker 1: thing you can possibly do in the world because you're

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Speaker 1: pretty much undermining everything they've said that you're trying to

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Speaker 1: cut down. You're like, surely what you just said is

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Speaker 1: a rational because you're on your period, and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: fuck you, Well maybe I think this.

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Speaker 4: So if we replace that with surely everything you've just

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Speaker 4: said is irrational because you're in a bad mental spot,

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Speaker 4: that really scares me in that he might go nope,

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Speaker 4: I feel great, and it's like, oh, I just was

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Speaker 4: quite condescending into everything you just said.

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Speaker 5: And sometimes that can come across it the what they

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Speaker 5: can invite like a doubling down, so it can Actually,

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Speaker 5: you know when when you stay hypothetically well after a

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Speaker 5: meeting where that kind of comment has happened, like a

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Speaker 5: U okay for someone that might be having quite a

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Speaker 5: lot of trouble at that time, that can potentially activate

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Speaker 5: kind of this defense response and a doubling down or

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Speaker 5: a withdrawing response, so like not fine, and then there's

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Speaker 5: like a moving away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think just to throw in another spanner,

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Speaker 4: and this isn't necessarily relatable to everyone, but I'm sure

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Speaker 4: relatable to other people's lives. We then have a radio

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Speaker 4: show to do in probably under an hour, and sometimes

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Speaker 4: I'll go, okay, Spidery senses are tingling. But if I

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Speaker 4: bring this up now, what reaction is is going to get?

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Speaker 4: And then we're on air in forty five minutes.

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Speaker 5: So there's certainly kind of like a sensitivity of time

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Speaker 5: of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah sure, And look.

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Speaker 5: There, I mean, there are so many different kind of

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Speaker 5: incarnations of how this can be occurring, but I've kind

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Speaker 5: of maybe got some general maybe strategies to think about

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Speaker 5: as the person that's on the receiving end. Perhaps absolutely,

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Speaker 5: And I really want to preface this by saying that

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Speaker 5: what I'm talking about in this instance is not to

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Speaker 5: do with and what we're talking about today is not

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Speaker 5: to do with coercive control. So I really want to

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Speaker 5: make that thing that we're not talking about, So I'm

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Speaker 5: not going to talk about, like within the context of

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Speaker 5: domestic violence controlling behaviors. So we're really kind of talking

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Speaker 5: more from my point of view, more around behaviors that

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Speaker 5: are still within the realm of safety. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, complete sense. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think they use the word controlling because that's the

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Speaker 1: word that it is for me. But we're effectively just

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Speaker 1: talking about somebody who's suffering and it's manifesting in a

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Speaker 1: way which is, you know, abusive to the people around them,

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Speaker 1: and again not in a physical sense, but like however

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Speaker 1: that is whether it's anger or control or.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and so just kind of being clear that if

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Speaker 5: there are people out there that are experiencing control within

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Speaker 5: a relationship and that it's become to a point of

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Speaker 5: it feeling abusive or really coercive, then that's a different discussion.

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Speaker 5: So I just wouldn't kind of be clear around that.

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Speaker 5: But in terms of like what we're talking about now,

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Speaker 5: you know, one of the first things is flowing things

436
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Speaker 5: down for both for both people, but for the like

437
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Speaker 5: the recipient, is that we kind of almost need to

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Speaker 5: be able to pause and take a breath and to

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Speaker 5: really kind of get a sense of Okay, So what

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Speaker 5: am I noticing right now? For me? So even before

441
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 5: kind of thinking about strategies to interact with the other person,

442
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 5: what is happening for me in this moment? How is

443
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 5: that feeling?

444
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: Okay? Yep? Interesting?

445
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 5: So what you had is like there was like that

446
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 5: the Spidey senses. There was a sense that there's something

447
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 5: really uncomfortable that's happening here, and so your body.

448
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 4: Is telling you that right, yes, yes, And if I'm

449
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 4: being really honest, I will then try to bottle that

450
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 4: up as much as possible, push that down, because again,

451
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 4: I've got to be on air in forty five minutes

452
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 4: and I can't be dealing with that spidy sense, So yes,

453
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 4: should I be?

454
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: Should I be handling that differently?

455
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 5: And look, I don't want to be too interactive, but

456
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 5: what I guess, even just for a second, you know,

457
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 5: being able to pause and say, aha, this is interesting,

458
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 5: I'm noticing here is discomfort. So at least we've kind

459
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 5: of labeled and named it, and so it's like, you know,

460
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 5: with the knowledge that you have to continue to work,

461
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 5: you know in a really short period of time with

462
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 5: that same person, that we can at least kind of

463
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 5: really acknowledge it for a moment and almost like you park,

464
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 5: you can park it, okay, So here is discomfort. So

465
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 5: that's one thing. And then obviously if you need to

466
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 5: go straight into work, then you just need to do

467
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: what you need to do, if that makes sense. But

468
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 5: afterwards feels really important because if we kind of let

469
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: this go, what can happen for you as the recipient

470
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 5: is that you start to feel resentful, not heard, maybe

471
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 5: feel a bit squashed, and maybe feel really hurt. And

472
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 5: when that happens, when that's not addressed, that actually becomes

473
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 5: then really detrimental to your friendship. Hypathetically, this all.

474
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: Of a sudden feels like a couple's therapy. This is amazing.

475
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so interesting because one thing I would say is,

476
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 4: and I've had these discussions before with people, and I

477
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 4: don't get to there, but I can almost sometimes feel

478
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 4: it creeping in and then and then my mind will

479
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: go to and it's good that I can have this individually,

480
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 4: but I go will must not be in a very

481
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 4: good spot. Will must be really suffering. But the shame

482
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 4: is that I don't have that conversation with Will.

483
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I actually think that's really good. It's it's

484
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 5: like this capacity for perspective taking, so you know you

485
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 5: can you're not taking on it. This is something that

486
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 5: I've done, there's something wrong with me. If you're able

487
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 5: to kind of step into like a compassionate response, he

488
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 5: must be having a tough time.

489
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: But but there's there's there's occasionally a delay there like that.

490
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 4: There can be like a oh, and then with time

491
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 4: it's like when you think about it more, you go, Okay,

492
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: I don't think he's in very good place.

493
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: Right now, which is a buddy sorry, Emily, just like

494
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: I think what He's had a lot of experience with this,

495
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: and he is a very compassionate person, so he probably

496
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: does it a lot easier.

497
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: Than other people.

498
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people listening to this

499
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 1: who would know, you know, a very angry or very

500
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: controlling person and getting to a place of compassion with

501
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: them quickly, particularly if it's not your friend. I mean, like,

502
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: what do you know best friends? So if we didn't

503
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: if it took took out the friendship side of things.

504
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: If it's just a colleague who's likeness with you, it

505
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: is a really hard.

506
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: To get to a place of compassion.

507
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely, it is. Yeah, And in some respects, I think

508
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 5: it feels important to recognize, you know, what your boundaries

509
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 5: are and what self care you take. So even kind

510
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 5: of keeping in mind seems like, you know, if it's

511
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 5: in a working context, the permission and validity of asking

512
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 5: for a break. Yeah, ye, so that you know, you know,

513
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 5: really reflecting that I'm hearing what you're saying and it

514
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 5: sounds like this is really important, let me take a

515
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 5: break and get back to you on this, or even

516
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 5: just kind of like basically what we're doing there is

517
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 5: asking for time so that both myself and the other

518
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 5: person might have some space to kind of move back

519
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 5: up to kind of a regulated space.

520
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 6: Ye.

521
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's great advice.

522
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: Actually, just yeah, you hear that a lot.

523
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 4: Obviously, when you're in the moment, it can be too

524
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 4: hard to try and grapple with your emotion or you're

525
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 4: still probably figuring out just as your enemy's still trying

526
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 4: to think about how am I feeling right now?

527
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: But without time, Yeah, you can't get.

528
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: There, absolutely not.

529
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: And I think from the again, just if I can

530
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: throw it at the first person perspective into this again,

531
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: we go back to that show last Thursday. That's like,

532
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: I know that the only way that I'm going to

533
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: calm down is by fully removing myself from everything so

534
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: that I can do something else that's going to not

535
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: involve engaging in those emotions.

536
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 4: And as Emily said, you know, there are going to

537
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 4: be times we do what you've got to do. Yeah,

538
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 4: it's going to put everything on boards. Yeah, do what

539
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 4: you've got to do.

540
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: And then but as you said, Emily, then you know afterwards.

541
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, then you know you can yeah, exactly.

542
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's then kind of in that afterwards space

543
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 5: that we can start to use the curious part of

544
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 5: ourselves that can seek to understand what is going on

545
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 5: to the other person. Yeah. We can do it in

546
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 5: a number of ways, and sometimes, genuinely, it may feel

547
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 5: safer to do it not in person, so to do

548
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 5: it by text or voice memo.

549
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, chat with Woods before and we were saying good.

550
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 6: We released an app called share my Mood a couple

551
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 6: of years ago, which was.

552
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: All about not speaking because speaking so hard and I

553
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: was saying in that situation, like if you just slipped

554
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: me a note.

555
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 6: Or wrote me in text message, that would be everything

556
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 6: for me.

557
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: Because the other thing is we're in an office as well,

558
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: whereas we were literally in a room where there's microphones

559
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 4: as well, So it's pretty hard to have a private

560
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 4: chat even because it's like I'm not sure if we're

561
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 4: being recorded right now.

562
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: So so you're right text message on.

563
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great idea.

564
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it can just be a simple like a

565
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 5: simple thing like you know, it seems to me like

566
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 5: you're having a really tough time today. Let me know

567
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 5: what I can do or what do you what do

568
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 5: you need from me today? Yeah, so there's like this,

569
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 5: I see you. I can acknowledge that this that you're

570
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 5: having a hard time. Yeah, and also this offering of

571
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 5: I'm here for you regardless of whether you feel like

572
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 5: you've hurt me off.

573
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: Mate, nailed it because I was talking before about you

574
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: said to me before, what do I need in that situation?

575
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: It's forgiveness and that's exactly what that message that you're saying,

576
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: since it's just like yo, I see what's going on. No,

577
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: it's tough for you it's okay. It's so liberating.

578
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, because forgiveness is implicity in that statement.

579
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: Run exactly, exactly yeah, And it's funny. It was like

580
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: I was talking earlier to the team about the way

581
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: that sam my partner does it with me, is I

582
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: don't know if she's read your handbook on how to

583
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: deal with people, but she will literally have an interaction

584
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: with me, she'll disappear, I won't see it for ten

585
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: minutes and then so it gives herself space obviously has

586
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,239
Speaker 1: a moment, and then she rocks back up and then

587
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 1: she goes, hey, just wondering if you're sure you want

588
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: to go to work today, let me know if you

589
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: need anything.

590
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: Totally releases me from it. So that is exactly what

591
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: it is.

592
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 5: There's one other thing to keep in mind in terms

593
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 5: of how to speak to someone when they're maybe in

594
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 5: anger or when they're more defends. And it's just like

595
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 5: a saying. It's by a particular therapist called Sue Johnson,

596
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 5: who's actually one of the proponents of well, one of

597
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 5: the founders of a particular couples therapy approach.

598
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: Okay, and.

599
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: The phrase is go low and slow, so with your

600
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 5: kine of voice, speak low and speak slowly?

601
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 3: Is that right?

602
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 4: Right?

603
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: Don't go low and slow.

604
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: Go low and slow. That's how Junior produce Randola normally

605
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: hits on boys.

606
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: But.

607
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: Low and low and slow.

608
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 4: So, Emily, so again, I can't help, but my my

609
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: silly mind is just is taking that to all sorts

610
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 4: of silly areas, which I apologize bit of a child,

611
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 4: ye do feel, but but low and slow. So it's

612
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 4: not totally over the top low and slow. It's just

613
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 4: it's just speak.

614
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: Slowly and yeah.

615
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 5: So if you think about even for anyone that's been

616
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 5: in therapy, you might notice at the most powerful moments

617
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 5: are when you and your therapist are slowing down.

618
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 6: Yes, so true.

619
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, so our nervous systems start to engage more. We've

620
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 5: got more, there's a spaciousness, and we kind of really

621
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 5: allow the other person then to come to their own

622
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 5: conclusions or really kind of get a sense of what

623
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 5: it is that they're feeling. So slowing down.

624
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, okay, that makes sense to me. Oh, Emily,

625
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 4: this has been so so great. I do feel I

626
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 4: know we can't take all of your time, and we

627
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 4: have that radio show to do, so we do have

628
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 4: to move on, but thank you so so much.

629
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: I think that's probably just if I can just try

630
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: and sort of summarize a couple of things that I've remembered,

631
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: just so people can go home and think about it.

632
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: So from the person who is being angry or controlling perspective,

633
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: I think it's worth knowing that that person is suffering

634
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: in my sense, and I'm sure this is a lot

635
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: of people's censors Emily, that's probably because they're not feeling

636
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: loved or there's been some deficiency in love which is

637
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: being triggered at that time to create that response where

638
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: effectively they're trying to protect themselves and as a result,

639
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: they're probably taking it out and everybody else around them.

640
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: I hope that unlocks a little bit for some people

641
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: to understand those people around them that are like that

642
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: and can be like that. And then the other part

643
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: of this is when you're on the outside of that,

644
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: realizing that that's what's going on, and which.

645
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 4: Can be hard, and I think the time, yeah, give

646
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 4: yourself steps away from it, give yourself some.

647
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: Time, and then when you do reconnect with them, you

648
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: don't need to talk with them. You can send them

649
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: a message, let them know they're okay. For me, it's

650
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: that how can you imply forgiveness through your messaging but

651
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: ultimately reaching out to them, letting you know that you're

652
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: there and that you're not in opposition to anything that's

653
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: going on, that you're kind of just like letting them

654
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: be and you're there to support if you need them

655
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: and if you want to talk to them, that's in.

656
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: A low and slow voice. Is that about right?

657
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 5: And we kind of yes. Absolutely.

658
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: I think the one thing for me that we didn't

659
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: touch on, which I think could be a really good

660
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: one maybe for a little bit later on, is that

661
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: bit on self compassion that I know, as I spoke

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00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: before about suicide, that was something that I had to

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00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: learn and I'm still not very good at, but I

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00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: think might be a really helpful thing for anyone who's

665
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: got behavior patterns that are quite trapping. Learning how to

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00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: look after yourself is really the only dissolving agent as

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00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: to how you can sort of steadily recede from that

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00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: cliff edge. Okay, wow, Emily, that was awesome. If you

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00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: want to visit Emily, can we have that chat with

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00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: you in the future, Emily?

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00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: Is that okay? Because I think that'd be great, Emily, great,

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00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: reject just.

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00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: Go quiet and that's the best way. Just don't answer.

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00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: Can we have that chat with you in the future

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00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: only at the self compassion, Yes, absolutely great.

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00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: You just needed to take some time. I need to

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00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: know how I'm feeling right now.

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00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: I want to get in contact with Emily yourself or

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00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: you found this really useful head along to doctor Emilymarsgrove

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00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you want to hear more of

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00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: Emily you can hear on the Imperfect podcast where she

682
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: does wonderful work. So yeah, doctor Emily Marsgrove dot com.

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00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 3: Doctor Emily, that was awesome. That was truly awesome. Thank

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00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 3: you so much.

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00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: Pleasure, absolute pleasure, Thanks Emily, Thanks Sam awesome, thank you,

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00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: thanks so much, really appreciate it.

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00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 3: Thank you. All Right, guys before we.

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00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: Get out of here, just a quick reminder that if

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00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: that was triggering for you in any way, you can

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00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen, and as has just

691
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: been pointed out to me, a great idea to call

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00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: one hundred respect as well.

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00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 6: That's the domestic violence helped one as well.

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00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: I know that was mentioned earlier.

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00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: If you are in that situation, you can call one

696
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: hundred respect and somebody there answer your call.

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00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 3: So thanks for listening. Hopefully there'll be a part two with.

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00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: Doctor Emily if she's available. She did, she did sort

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00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: of silently.

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00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 5: She did.

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00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: I think silent when you think she wasn't a silent

702
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: none was a psychologist.

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00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 3: If she's using silent nose, she's in the wrong game.

704
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: The line was perfect, and then all.

705
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 4: Of a sudden we had a little delay when you

706
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 4: get are you available to have another chat?

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00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: And that was your silence. I think she played it beautifully.

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00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: So if you're a psychologist, you'd like to have part

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00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: two of that chat.

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00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 3: Not everyone. People don't avoid things in the same way

711
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: you do.

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00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: She's a psychologist, you should have just said no in

713
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: that situation.

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00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 3: All right.

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00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: Anyway, Look, hopefully he's another one if big shout out

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00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: stuct friendly