1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: Now, those conversations have zero evaluation from me. What they 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 2: show is that I'm willing to support my child in 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 2: achieving what she values, and I want to talk to 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: her about where she's going and what she's trying to do. 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, My mum 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: and dad. 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: Kylie, how you doing. 10 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 3: It's been a tough weekend. 11 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been hard. We are so grateful to everyone 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: who listened to our podcast yesterday and shared kind things 13 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: about us. Fare willing our dog Benson. Kind of felt 14 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: a little bit self indulgent to talk about it in 15 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: some ways, but at the same time, it's the sort 16 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: of thing that every family's going to go through if 17 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: you have a pet. Right. 18 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: As I have shared our news with other friends, I 19 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 3: have been amazed at how many people have gone through 20 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 3: the process and how difficult it was for each of 21 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 3: them going through it as well. It's been so much 22 00:00:58,800 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: harder than I would have expected. 23 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we should introduce ourselves for those of you who 24 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 2: are new. I'm justin here with Kylie, my wife, mum, 25 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: to our six kids. I'm the founder of Happy Families 26 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: dot com. A you we go to get back into 27 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: the swing of things today, though, are you ready for it? 28 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: Of course? Okay, all right, So we got to put 29 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: our behind in the past, our behind in the past, 30 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: put our past behind us. That's an old line from 31 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: the Lion King. I couldn't help myself and dive into 32 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: what we usually do on a Tuesday, which is answer 33 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: a question, a challenge, a difficulty that one of our 34 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: podcast listeners is struggling with. And this is a cracker, 35 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: especially for this time in term two when reports are 36 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: run their way out from Lee Kylie. What did Lee 37 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: ask us via podcasts at Happy families dot com. 38 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 3: You just wondering about what Justin and Kylie do with 39 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 3: regards to celebrating their children's reports or giving feedback to 40 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 3: their children. My daughter is five, and we have and 41 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: still maintain as her parents that it is her attitude 42 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 3: and effort that we are concerned about. What kind of 43 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 3: themes would you discuss or encourage about reports sharing with 44 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 3: your child? Do you point out areas that still need work? 45 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: According to the teacher, I want to make the celebration 46 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 3: meaningful and intentional, and I just want some pointers either way. 47 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 2: It's report time. Half yearly reports are about to come out, 48 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: and this is one of those questions that every parent 49 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 2: wonders about. What do I say when the report arrives, 50 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: especially well, whether it's good news or bad news? What 51 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: do I What do I say? It's tricky? 52 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 3: Well, I think this is going to be an interesting 53 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 3: conversation because you and I have a pretty different take 54 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 3: on this. 55 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, we kind of do, don't we. This is something 56 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: that's been a bug bear bug. I was gonna say 57 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 2: we've clashed, but I think that's too strong. But we 58 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 2: definitely have a different approach. Why don't you outline your 59 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: approach and see if that's helpfully and every other parent 60 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: who's about to open up an envelope that's got their 61 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: child's midyear report in it, and then I'll share a 62 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 2: few of my ideas well. 63 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 3: My parents were very much like Lee's parents growing up. 64 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 3: They would get my report card at the end of 65 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 3: the year and we'd go through it together and usually 66 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 3: that would end up with us heading down Tory Jacks 67 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 3: because that was my favorite hangout, go and get a 68 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 3: whopper as an eleven or twelve year old, and we'd 69 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: celebrate together. And generally speaking, my parents didn't eat hungry jacks, 70 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: so they would watch me eat, but we would celebrate 71 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: the fact that I had had a successful year. 72 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: So what are you celebrating. 73 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 3: I'm celebrating effort, because likely my parents didn't worry so 74 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 3: much about my grades. They celebrated the fact that I 75 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: actually got through another year and that I had put 76 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 3: effort into what I'd done. 77 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So increasingly a lot of schools are adding 78 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: effort to the report card and teaches a grading effort 79 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: as well. And I'm I just I cannot put out 80 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: of my mind that time that our daughter Annie, I 81 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: think she was probably in about grade three or grade four. Now, 82 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: Annie is a conscientious kid. She's diligent, and of all 83 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: of our six daughters, she is, without question the one 84 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: who puts in the effort. 85 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 3: Conscientious. 86 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: She is so consistent, yes, and wants to do the 87 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: right thing and wants to wants to please her teacher. 88 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: She's so well, conscientious is the word. And I remember 89 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: she opened up her report to go through it with you, 90 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: and she got a few b's and c's, a couple 91 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: of a's. It was kind of just a bit of 92 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: a mixed bag. But she was really really distraught because 93 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: we had until that point always said we don't really 94 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: care what grades you get, we just want to encourage 95 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: you to always put a really good effort in and 96 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: in the grading box for effort, and he had received 97 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: a couple of c's that devastated her. I remember her saying, 98 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: I failed trying. I failed trying, that I didn't even 99 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: get an A for trying, and I tried so hard, 100 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 2: but my teacher just couldn't see it. And that one 101 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: incident has absolutely changed the way that I see reports now. 102 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: I was aware of a whole lot of evidence and 103 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: research around grades, but that one particular experience forced me 104 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 2: to go back and look at the literature, I guess, 105 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 2: almost with new eyes, and read what the research actually said, 106 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: rather than just going along with what we'd always done. 107 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: So your approach is every time kids come home with 108 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: a report card, you actually sit down and go through 109 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: it with them. 110 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 3: Well, they're pretty excited for me to have a look 111 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: at it and see what they've done and tell me, 112 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,799 Speaker 3: you know, how well they went in particular areas. Every 113 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: child has their favorites, and so it's a given they're 114 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 3: going to end up with good marks there, but we 115 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: get to talk about the things that they're struggling with 116 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: and the acknowledgment from their teachers the areas that they 117 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 3: could work on, and we have a conversation around that 118 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: whether or not that's actually accurate in their minds, you know, 119 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: when it comes to their effort, or when it comes 120 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: to their participation in class or I'm not going to 121 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 3: go into any academic stuff with them because I'm not 122 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: going to be much help there, but talking to them about, 123 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: you know, the things that I guess are part of 124 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 3: their character. 125 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: I think they're important. I would imagine that ninety five 126 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: percent of our listeners would be right there with you. So, yeah, 127 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 2: that's what you're supposed to do. You sit down, you 128 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: go through it. You talk about their strengths, their weakness, 129 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: is what they're enjoying, have a look at how the 130 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: teacher is perceiving their work in the classroom. 131 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: It's just that we even talk about the relationship they 132 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 3: have with their teacher, because that has a huge impact 133 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: on their report card. 134 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: Well, a lot of teachers would say that it can't possibly, 135 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: but we've got some reasonably interesting research from around the 136 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: world that suggests that it probably has more of an 137 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: impact than most people want to admit. But you and I, 138 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: we really do differ in the way report card time 139 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 2: season happens. How would you describe my response to report 140 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: cards in a word? Apathetic? We're going to talk about 141 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: why I completely disregard and ignore every report card my 142 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 2: children ever get. 143 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: Right after the break, it's their Happy Families. 144 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 4: Podcast For a happier family, Try a Happy Families membership, 145 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 4: because a happy family doesn't just happen. Details at happy 146 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 4: families dot com dot au. 147 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time 148 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we 149 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: are trying to answer Lee's question on how to celebrate 150 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 3: and offer feedback to our children around report cards. But 151 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 3: you and I differ on this, so I'm really interested. 152 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: I've shared my viewpoint. How do you feel about this 153 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: report card sharing? 154 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: Well, the first thing that I'm going to highlight is 155 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: that in this particular email, we've got Lee who has 156 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: a five year old, and I just think that with 157 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: no disrespect to Lee and anyone else who has a 158 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: five year old, who does this, because this is not 159 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: about parents shaming. This is about trying to rethink the 160 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: way we consider our interaction with our kids around evaluation 161 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 2: and grading. My feeling is that at the age of five, 162 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: the last thing we need to worry about is what's 163 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: on the report card. I think that is completely irrelevant 164 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: to their character, to their development. In fact, I would 165 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: not only say that it's irrelevant, I would say that 166 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: it's counterproductive. Five year old's developmentally, are just learning how 167 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: to think. They're still, in some cases trying to develop 168 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: that thing called theory of mind. They don't really know 169 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: how to regulate their emotions particularly well, or their behaviors, 170 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: especially if they're the younger kids in their class and 171 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: five years old. Right we're talking about kinder or prep. 172 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: We're talking about grade one at the highest. 173 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: So I'm actually really surprised at that at five we're 174 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: giving report. 175 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: Cards well, and I don't think we should. I think 176 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: it's disgraceful. I think I ustdly and fundamentally reject the 177 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 2: idea that children under the age of eight or ten 178 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: need report cards, the idea that we need to be 179 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 2: evaluating them and sending home something attached to a grade 180 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: or a letter or something like that they're supposed to 181 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: be learning how to share. They're learning how to use 182 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: a knife and fork for crying out loud, they're learning 183 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: how to sleep all night alone in their own bedrooms, 184 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: and we're giving them these evaluations that look so official 185 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: and that tell them how they're doing in class compared 186 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: to everyone else. I completely reject the idea that our 187 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: little kids need report cards. In fact, i'd argue even 188 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: that big kids don't necessarily need report cards, but I'll 189 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: come to that in a sec. The second thing, just 190 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: in the email that I want to emphasize is this 191 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: idea that do we make a big deal about her 192 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: attitude and effort. That's what we're concerned about, attitude and effort. 193 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: And to me, implicit in that statement, and maybe I'm 194 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: reading too much into it, but I hear it from 195 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: parents all the time. So this isn't about Lee's email. 196 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: This is more about a general conversation I have with parents. 197 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 2: They say, we just want the kids to maintain a 198 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: good attitude. We just want them to maintain their effort, 199 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: which seems to imply to me that parents implicitly know 200 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: that school is going to undermine motivation for learning, that 201 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: going to school is going to get in the way 202 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: of a good education or motivation for education. There's this 203 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: suggestion that motivation, attitude, effort might actually decline. Oh, hang on, 204 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: We've got decades of research that shows that that's exactly 205 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: what happens. No wonder parents are worried about it, because 206 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: that's what unfortunately our current school system, in spite of 207 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: the very best teachers who love the kids and work 208 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: so hard, we have a system that, fundamentally at every level, 209 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: for most kids, undermines their interest in natural curiosity and learning. 210 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 3: Well, considering this is the podcast for the time poor 211 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 3: parent who just wants answers, now, how do we help Lee? 212 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 3: What can she do to make this time with her 213 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 3: child more meaningful? 214 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: I'm guessing that my first piece of advice is not 215 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: going to be listened to by many parents. My first 216 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: piece of advice is just throw the report in the bin, 217 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: don't look at it. Whether they're in primary school or 218 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: high school, don't even worry. You're shaking your head, Well, 219 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: no i'm not. 220 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 3: But when we first got married, your mum gave me 221 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: a box of all your keepsakes. Yeah, and she hadn't 222 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 3: done a great job of collating everything, but she had 223 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 3: envelopes for each year, and just in the envelopes was 224 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: your report cards, your school photos, anything that, you know, 225 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 3: any achievements you had made through the year. And I 226 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 3: really enjoyed going through that. And what I found was 227 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 3: as I went through that each year, there was a 228 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 3: theme to your report cards and the different behaviors that 229 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 3: you displayed from the time you were tiny. 230 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: What the well, I don't remember now it was so. 231 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 3: Long ago because we've been married for over two decades. 232 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: I think it said something like Justin does not live 233 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: up to his potential, something like that. 234 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: And what was amazing was just watching that these were handwritten, 235 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: so people didn't have access to previous years or anything 236 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 3: like your teachers saw in you a pattern, and I 237 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 3: thought that was a really I mean, that's that's intriguing 238 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 3: to me. 239 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: I agree that it's really interesting to look back historically 240 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: and see that trend. And yet I would also make 241 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: the argument when you look at somebody who is in 242 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: their thirties or forties, if you look at me in 243 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: my mid forties, gosh, my mid to late forties, what's 244 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: happening to me? How did that happen so fast? I 245 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: don't think that my grade three report card or my 246 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: grade eight report card actually says anything about the human 247 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 2: that I've become and about the life that I've lived. 248 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 2: I don't think that even getting a snapshot in time 249 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: is useful for anything at all. It doesn't predict the future. 250 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: And it's a simple subjective evaluation of what a teacher 251 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: thinks based on what happened over the last twelve to 252 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: twenty four weeks at school. Full stop, end of story. 253 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 2: So my number one piece of advice is give it 254 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: a cursory glance, if you must, file it away for history, 255 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: if you choose, because it could be fun, But don't 256 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: think about it, don't worry about it, don't talk about 257 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: it now. Is that realistic? I don't think so. I 258 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: don't think many parents are going to do that. So 259 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: I've got some other advice to parents who can't help themselves. 260 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: Oh good, because you're looking at me like, are you serious? 261 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: Scut it out? 262 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 3: Our kids come home and they want to be acknowledged. 263 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 2: They do, they do, And so here's what I do. 264 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 2: In terms of acknowledging kids, I say to them, how'd 265 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 2: you feel when you read that? How do you feel 266 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: you did? Is it an accurate representation? What would you 267 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: like the next one to look like. Those conversations have 268 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: zero evaluation from me. What they show is that I'm 269 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: willing to support my child in achieving what she values, 270 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: and I want to talk to her about where she's 271 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: going and what she's trying to do. I'm not interested 272 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: in what the teacher thinks. I'm interested in what my 273 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: daughter thinks. Do you feel like that fair? Yes? 274 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 3: No? 275 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: Huh? Interesting? Why is that? Let's talk about what you 276 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: want next time, how you're going to get there, How 277 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: can I support you? To me, that's far more valuable 278 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 2: as a conversation to a child than here's what your 279 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: geography teacher says, here's what your maths teacher says, here's 280 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: what your English teacher says. With the greatest respect to teachers, 281 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: I'm not that interested in what you think. I'm interested 282 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 2: in a couple of things. Number one, does my child 283 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: love learning? And number two, does my child love their friends? 284 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: Because if my child says I love learning and I 285 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: want to do well at it, and I love being 286 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 2: at school with my friends, then they're going to be fine. 287 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 2: They're going to do well, and that's my interest. I 288 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: came across a quote in Joe Frost's book about raising kids. 289 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: I'm not even going to give the title of the book. 290 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: And for those of you who aren't sure, Joe Frost 291 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: she's the Supernanny and she says, and I quote, the 292 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: best rewards are attention, praise, and love, which sounds great 293 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 2: so far, doesn't it, And then she says this, the 294 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: best rewards are attention, praise, and love and should be 295 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 2: held back when the child behaves badly. Oh stop it, 296 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: just stop it. If the kids haven't done well on 297 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: their report, say how did that make you feel? What 298 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 2: would you like the report to look like? How can 299 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: I support you to get their next time? 300 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 3: It just made me really sad. 301 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: And if the child has done well on their report, 302 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 2: you say, how did that make you feel? What do 303 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: you want the next one to look like? How can 304 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: I support you to get there? Why'd that make you 305 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: feel sad? 306 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: Oh? 307 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: I just because you're married to me and not Joe Frost. 308 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: This idea that we have. 309 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 3: To withhold our love from our children if they don't 310 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 3: perform to a certain level, or if they don't do 311 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 3: what we want them to do, that just breaks my heart. 312 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: And I don't think that that's what Lee is getting out, 313 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: and I don't think any parent would, but yet this 314 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 2: is what some of the advices that's out there around 315 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 2: grades and around this kind of stuff. It's just so unhealthy. Hey, 316 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: I'm going to link to an article from a guy 317 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: called Alfie Cone. Alfie Cone wrote a book called Punish 318 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: by Rewards. In fact, he's written about ten books, and 319 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: I just think he's absolutely brilliant and fascinating. And this 320 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 2: article is called the Case against Grades, and this is 321 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: what he says. Grades diminish students interest in what they're learning. 322 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: A grading orientation and a learning orientation have been shown 323 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: to be inversely related, and as far as I can tell, 324 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 2: every study that's ever investigated the impact on an intrinsic 325 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: motivation of receiving grades has found a negative effect. He 326 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: says grades create a preference for the easiest possible task, 327 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 2: and then he adds grades tend to reduce the quality 328 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: of students thinking. There's a whole lot more in the article. 329 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: It's brilliant. I'm a big believer in what he says, 330 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: but it's a long article and we don't have time 331 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: to read it. That's my advice. That's the way I 332 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: see report cards. I know that it's controversial, I know 333 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: it's provocative. I know that you don't totally agree with me, 334 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 2: but can we at least agree that we're probably not 335 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 2: going to get that serious about this term's report. 336 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 3: We won't be that serious about this term's report. So 337 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 3: doctor Justin Coulson, tell me the take homes. You're going 338 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: to sum up what you've shared today to answer Lee's question, 339 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 3: what are the two take homes that you want. 340 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: To So I would say this, the take home message is, 341 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: don't put educational pressure on your kids. Number one, and 342 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: going over reports and focusing on evaluations like that are 343 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: only going to add pressure. And number two, just ask 344 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 2: them if they love their friends, if they love being 345 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: at school, if they love learning, and then support them 346 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 2: to love it more. Next term. 347 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 3: Well, I'm looking forward to having those conversations with our kids. 348 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: Sounds like I'm the one that's going over the reports 349 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: this term. This will just take them out for the 350 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: milkshake afterwards. We're both celebrating. Oh, we're just celebrating a 351 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: live We don't need a report to go out and 352 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: have a milkshake and celebrate, although I'd rather if we 353 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: just bought the ice cream brought at home and made 354 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: it at home. We'll save ourselves a. 355 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 3: Bundy no No. I found the best banana fix shake 356 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: the other day. I am definitely going back there. 357 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from 358 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. If you 359 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: are provoked by our podcasts, good We're delighted about that. 360 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: We had a lot of Facebook messages yes today about 361 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 2: this question. My advice doesn't seem to be consistent with 362 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: any of those messages, but you can jump onto Facebook 363 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: and join the conversation. Just have a look at yesterday's 364 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 2: posts on the topic, and if you'd like more info 365 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 2: about Happy Families, visit our website happyfamilies dot com dot au.