1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Three sixteen with Katie Wolf Thanks to Joyce Main Dowen 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Homes own Stuart Highway, Beerrimer. It is just on twenty 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: six minutes away from ten o'clock. Now we know that 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: a survey of Australia's principles has found that well, a 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: number of factors last year, including COVID nineteen the global pandemic, 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: have had an immense impact on the stress and workload 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: of our school's leaders. Now joining me on the line 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: to talk more about the situation and about this survey 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: which has been conducted from the Australian Catholic University Professor 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: Herb Marsh, Good morning to you, Herb. 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: Hello Katie, thanks. 12 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: So much for your time this morning. Talk us through 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: this survey and exactly what it's found. 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: Well, this is a survey that we run every year. 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: We have over two thousand school principles, close to half 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: the school principals and all of Australia that are responding 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 2: to the survey. The focus of the survey is on 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 2: the health and well being of principles and how that's 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: changing over time in wonder some of the considerations. It's 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: a large scale study funded by the Australian Research Council. 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: And did it look into the sort of the well 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: being and the way in which some of our school 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: principles in the Northern Territory of feeling as well. I 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: know that it obviously included Australia wide principles and school 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: leaders from around Australia. 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: Surely we've looked. The focus isn't on any one state. 27 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: The focuses on national but we do have data for 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: the individual state. That's not a major focus of it. 29 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: I mean, let me start off by saying that principles 30 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: are very passionate about their job, but it's a very 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: demanding and stressful job. Almost all principles work long hours. 32 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: More than seventy percent work more than fifty six hours 33 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: a week and twenty five hours a week and during 34 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: the holidays, three out of ten participants received what we 35 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: call a red flag email suggesting that they may need 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: to seek some support local support services because of issues 37 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: of quality of life and occupational health. So it's a 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: wide ranging survey and it's had quite a bit of impact. 39 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest concerns that our school 40 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: principles are facing at the moment, You know, have we 41 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: got a situation in some places where our principles are 42 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: quite unsafe. 43 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 2: Well, that's certainly. One of the very surprising aspects of 44 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: the survey was the number of principals who reported being 45 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: exposed to threats of violence or being a victim of 46 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: physical violence. For principles, this is up to nine times 47 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: greater than the general population. Let's over the last decade 48 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: that we've been doing the survey, the numbers have gone up, 49 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: So that certainly is a worrying situation. 50 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: It really is. What are some of the other concerns 51 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: that our principles have got. 52 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: Well, the COVID situation has been quite an interesting one. 53 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: On the one hand, it's created a lot more stress 54 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: because principals are having to do lots of different things 55 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: that they haven't done before. So they're having to create 56 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 2: a COVID safe environment for the students and as well 57 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: as the staff and for that matter, parents as well. 58 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: They've had to organize on simultaneously having online and face 59 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: to face learning. They keep getting different instructions from the 60 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: government because they want to try and keep it open, 61 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: but they try and want to try to keep things safe, 62 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: and so a lot of the instructions are a lot 63 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: of the feedback they've been getting has been from social 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: media and the newspapers, so it's a very stressful time 65 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: for principles, but there's also positive aspects of COVID nineteen. 66 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: In particular, I think that people across the country have 67 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: realized that schools are very important and the job of 68 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: the school principle is incredibly important, so I think that 69 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: they've gotten some greater recognition. One of the aspects that 70 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: was interesting was that, perhaps not surprisingly, there has been 71 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: a decrease in the offensive behavior that principles have been 72 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: subject to, particularly threats of violence and physical violence. Now, 73 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: undoubtedly this is because there hasn't been as much face 74 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: to face content, so that has possibly explained part of it. 75 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: One of the things that we're suggesting in our reports 76 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: was that maybe that aspect should be continued, so maybe 77 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: more of the contact between principles and parents should be 78 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: via social media. That would be a win for parents 79 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: because it would be easier to schedule, they wouldn't have 80 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: to take a day off of work and so forth, 81 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,239 Speaker 2: but it would also be beneficial for principles in terms 82 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: of maintaining quality control and things like that. 83 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: When you talk about those those threats of violence or 84 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: even you know, some of those some of the different 85 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: sort of you know, unpleasant to put it very nicely, 86 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: behavior that teachers experience. Is it mostly like, are you 87 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: finding that it's mostly from students or is it also parents? 88 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: I mean, who's sort of treating our wonderful principles in 89 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: that way? 90 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: Well, it depends on upon the different behaviors to who 91 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 2: who it is, but certainly a lot of it is 92 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: coming from parents, and that was really quite a surprise. 93 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: So that if we're looking at bullying behavior that's mostly 94 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: from parents, not from students. If we're looking at threats 95 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: of violence, that's from both parents and students. So a 96 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: lot of it is from parents as well as from students. 97 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: Those are the two men. 98 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: We are going to have to wrap up her. But 99 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: just very quickly. I know that with those key findings, 100 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: there are some recommendations. You know, do you put this 101 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: research to the government federally and let them know exactly 102 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: what's going on in some of our states and territories 103 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: so that hopefully we can sort of find a way 104 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: to move forward and make sure this type of thing 105 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: isn't happening as prevalently. 106 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: Yes, we do. Our oponal report is broadly available to 107 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: principal associations and state departments of Education. We do individual 108 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: meetings with many of the state ministers of education with 109 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: some of the with some of the states we follow up. 110 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 2: For example, Northern Territory is in the process of planning 111 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: to do an introduction to an initiative to improve the 112 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: health and wellbeing of principals and teachers with us. That's 113 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: still on the planning stages. Victoria has done this a 114 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: couple of years ago and has shown some positive results 115 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: as a consequence of it. 116 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: I'm pleased to hear that. Well. I really appreciate your 117 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: time this morning, Professor Herb Marsh. It's been great speaking 118 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: with you. Thanks so much for talking us through that survey. 119 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: Great, thank you veryan. 120 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: That was Professor Herb Marsh there from the ACU, the 121 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: Australian Catholic University. And I tell you what pretty concerning stuff. 122 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: Some of those numbers and some of those different issues 123 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: that have been raised, and the threats towards our school 124 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: principles and school leaders. It's certainly not good enough. I 125 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: know that sometimes we can get frustrated with the way 126 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: in which things are managed within our schools. But I'll 127 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: tell you what, it's not a good example to set 128 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: for our child if we're threatening our children's teachers, that 129 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: is for sure.