WEBVTT - A Cousin and the Community 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:01.359 Good. 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.040 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.440 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:12.240 It was absolute shambles, to say the truth, just absolutely ridiculous. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.880 Blood on his clothing the day after the alleged attap 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:16.920 on a shallow mud bank and if you through a river. 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:19.200 Basically, I think most of the people are used to me, 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:20.560 there are good people. 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.240 I think a really important question we need to ask 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.279 you how many Indigenous prisoners in. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.880 This is Kurtin a podcast where we pull back the 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.400 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.400 our justice system and ask who are the victims. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:37.440 I'm Amy Maguire. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.280 And I'm Martin Hodgson, Senior advocate at the Foreign Prisoner 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:48.360 Support Service. Thanks for joining us here for Curtin the podcast. 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.280 As the rest of the world was celebrating Christmas in 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.920 New Years, Kevin Henry, or Curtin as he is widely known, 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:03.200 spent his twenty fifth Christmas behind twenty five Christmases and 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.320 New Years away from his family and loved ones and 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.440 community through crime. He insists he never committed. 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.560 Now, if you're just joining us here today for the 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.119 latest episodes and you haven't listened to the previous episodes. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.679 We urge you to go back and catch up, but 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.320 to refresh the memories of our regular listeners. For the 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.400 past year, we've been investigating the murder of an Aboriginal 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.280 woman named Linda on the banks of the Fitzroy River 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.160 in Rockhampton, Central Queensland. In nine to ninety one. Four 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.679 people were convicted over her death, three women who were 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.479 handed three to four year jail sentences for grievous bodily harm. 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.240 They had all brutally assaulted Linda at a drug and 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:48.680 alcohol rehabilitation center named Tanuba House the night that she died. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.640 But it was Kevin Henry who received the harshest sentence 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:58.480 because after Linda had been left at Tanuba House, police 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.680 allege he dragged to an area close to the river, 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.800 where later he would place her in the water, where 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:10.840 she would subsequently drown. But over the past year we've 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:16.680 raised serious doubts about those allegations. They simply don't stack up. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:22.880 The forensic evidence doesn't match. There's no eye witnesses, there's 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:28.880 no evidence, forensic or otherwise linking Kevin to Linda or 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:33.200 to the place where the police would allege Kevin placed 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:38.280 Linda's body in the water. We've spent time outlining reasons 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:43.920 that Kevin's confession at the police station were coerced and 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:48.640 even forced. We've told you about the other suspects, much 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:54.760 more likely suspects with motive and opportunity, who the police, 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.120 despite knowing these people existed, did not bother to follow 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.079 up on. We've told you about key witnesses who were 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:07.959 proven unreliable on the witness stand, some of whom flat 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:14.440 out light. And finally, we told you that Kevin Henry 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.320 had an alibi that night he was at the Crown 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:22.440 Hotel buying alcohol, and the window of time where it's 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:26.239 alleged he could have committed the crime was very narrow. 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:32.040 The timing just does not add up. In fact, that 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:38.960 window becomes so narrow it's closed. Now. A couple of 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.600 weeks ago, Amy sat down by the banks of the 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:47.600 Fitzroy River and spoke to Kevin's cousin, Douglas Graham. Back 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:52.120 in September nineteen ninety one, when Kevin supposedly gave his 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:57.040 confession at the Rockampton police station, Doug was concerned about 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.480 what was going on, so he made an effort to 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.240 go down to the police station to see what was 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.520 actually happening. It was here that he saw clips of 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:14.880 the actual video recording of Curtain's police interview. Those clips 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.400 were just a section of what should have been hours 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.839 and hours of video tape, but Douglas was only presented 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:27.160 with about twelve minutes of content. Here's what he has 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:27.960 to say. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.400 Douglas Graham, could I get you to say your mob 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:31.600 in your country? 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:36.000 Douglas Graham, I'm the Lama Lama and human groups as 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.239 well as a good going and color. Were you're sitting 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:43.000 on the room bank out of our company and most breezy. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:52.040 We are anomalous mob from Moist of the associators from 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.480 the dors in Riveria of smer Queen's andandwhich flows into 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.720 the McKenzie flows into the frens Roy. Yeah, what we 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.719 were sitting now and and that's all. We are eagle people. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:08.919 And we'll come to talk about brother Kevin Henry and 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:16.040 the circumstances surrounding his imprisonment. It's a sad story mm. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.440 And there's always some questions about when people get into 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.479 the cast right on on charges uh such as he 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.840 he's been put on. But there's also been dafts in 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:28.160 people's minds of of the ease. 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.599 I suppose who's Kevin Henry to you? 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.039 Kem his mama and mamma sisters away from they and 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.640 your family around trou so the big family be moved 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:46.240 his Uh, these six sisters and three brothers, and and 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.680 as you know, as a as you can, as you 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.400 can sort of realize, there's a bit more of us 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:55.039 after that. But I'm we've always been sort of close, 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.880 knitting and out. Kevin to be h always a quiet fella, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.360 and they've got much Uh getting in Stratford with anybody, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.839 let alone the the authorities or the police or anybody 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.680 you know, you know, we all go might have been 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.440 a little bit of ugments along the way, but Uh 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.400 was known to be a little person to get in 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.520 trouble really, you know, do you. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:21.360 Remember around you know, September nine ninety one, how did 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.960 you find out that Curtain had been arrested? 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:29.240 Well, I'm in ninety ninety one, I was in Adelaide, 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.280 and that was a time when I'm I got a 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.640 phone call from my mum and I was studying at 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.200 the UNI there. And we don't come on for a break. 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.680 After we come on for my break I'm family sat 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.080 down and talked about what had happened. And and when 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.920 I always told stories about the lady in there who 0:06:54.000 --> 0:07:02.160 was bending the river that keptn was specially Marity with 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.120 the wrong way. He's weew other stories, you know, earn 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.600 about who actually did it. And and that's the biggest part. 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:11.440 When I heard a story about these other people who 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:13.960 were involved there was it didn't come much as u 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.400 a s surprise to me. They were they were they 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.200 were well noner in the community to be stand up 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:23.880 with people and then and people who would go roll 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.920 on people and just really bad news, you know. And 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.520 I remember that I'd come into Rocky to the police 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.280 station to we we we actually talked to the police 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:41.800 about about his confession cir called confession. So I am 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:46.080 coming to Rockampton, I just pretty rich date was there 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.680 what Monther was, but would have been after I'd come 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:55.480 back from Adelaide, And I actually got to see a 0:07:55.680 --> 0:08:04.560 vhh vatas type recording of his his circle confessions. When 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:05.880 I look back at her now and I you know, 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.360 realized that he wasn't he didn't seem his right self. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.880 He's slurring words and and sort of m you know, 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.560 swaying a bit, and I realized I realized myself too, 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.160 that he was still in it looked like he was intoxicated, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:24.120 you know. Yeah, and and and I in it on 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.280 that sort of quality tape. Yeah, M. You know, he's 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:28.560 a bit of a jump and a bit of a 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:30.800 not It wasn't that snow. He just a bit of 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.760 look scratchy what they call it. But I definitely remember 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.480 the way he was talking, in the way he's acting, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.120 and these m it's his mannerisms, you know. It just 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.720 didn't seem right to me, you know, and nothing, nothing 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:46.240 seemed right. 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.160 How much of that tape were you able to watch? 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.160 I reckon I woulda watched about probably about when No. 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:59.600 SA ten seven to ten minutes of that at the 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.920 most of say probably twelve roughly as a recall, But 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.679 it wasn't It wasn't an hour. Wasn't wasn't like an 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:09.240 half an hour. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.560 Do you remember who was in the room with Kevin. 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:17.080 Or there was some guys detectives. I don't recall their 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.360 names at the moment, but I'm I realized, I'm uh, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.319 I understood the do they way? You know? Over then 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.319 what they were asking these questions and and uh when 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.920 I remember one part there they were saying, well did 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:31.200 you do it? Did you? Did you do it? And 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.280 he said well, oh well okay, then like you know 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.600 what's around my head? And I told himself, well, now, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.240 angl a minute, that's not a confession. It's like, oh okay, 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.560 oh bet enough, you used m hav gonna go at 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:43.800 me on this. Yeah, And then he said, uh, what 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:44.240 do you do it? 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:44.520 Oh? 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:50.599 He's talking like, well, these these women got families, you know, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.199 and kidding I'm thinking, well what women? 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:55.439 You know? 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.920 Who were they talking about? And I realized that it 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:03.800 was lighter Ni there's people way mm and to me, 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.959 it to me it was it wasn't a confession, it 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.959 it It was seemed to be a forced one. And 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.120 and even these the way I looked at him and 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.679 they seemed to be like to me, he was like 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.760 either drowsy from sleep but with the doubt which wa 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:20.760 you know, but it looked it'll work. He was still 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:21.840 ready tied up. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.600 Yeah you know, did you s say that too? Did 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:26.640 you remark that to the police officers at that time? 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.800 You're concerned? Now? 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.080 I didn't, because it was I was it was a movie. 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.600 I wasn't shocked too, see, yeah, and to think that thing, 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.800 I mean, that's not a real that doesn't sound like 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:41.000 a confession to me. So now I didn't I didn't 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.000 elaborate on to him because you know, I can feel 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.800 the eyes on me as well, you know, and it 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.640 see like they wanted they wanted to show me what 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.880 they wanted to show me, and and that little part 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.480 you know, and actually recalled that. They said, well there's 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.480 a confession, but not a a whole record of a 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.880 video record for the whole any of you from from 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.120 the start till they finished, you know, So I I 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:05.079 remember that now. 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.839 So you went down to the police off police officer 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.440 that day cause you were concerned about Kevin being locked up. 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:12.400 You went down just because you wanted to see what 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:13.920 was happening. And that's what they said to you. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.280 They showed you the confession, yeah, because they said he 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.880 confessed and was at how how did he compressit? He 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:20.800 write it or whatever, and said, well there's a there's 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:26.000 a there's a video tape recording, which I understand now 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:30.920 no one syst know where it is. And and if 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.040 you think that any brief of evidence and lawyer's got 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:37.079 brief of evidence and stuff back from the prosecutors that 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.800 that would have been included in there. So I don't 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.840 know many people they actually showed after that or even 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.000 quite about Kevin, or whether that was actually played in 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.080 the court of law. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't. 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.920 Well there you go. So someone's actually got still got 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:59.440 that that taper which actually shows him, you know, physically 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.640 he looked and I and now he spoke right more 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.880 so than the written word or a or an audio recording, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:08.760 and that wad that would And if someone would have 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:14.160 seen that, you know, and experienced defense lawyer h h 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.000 or the judge himself, you know, would have seen that, 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.199 you know, I I think they would add s some 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:25.040 sort of words to say about, well, he he doesn't 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.200 look like he's m well mentally c came uh mentally 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.599 capacitated at the time to do that, you know, but 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:34.920 whether that's the right word or not. But he just 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:36.360 didn't seem to be in his right mind. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.640 Yeah, you can tell just from seven to ten minutes. 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.960 What he was like. Yes, just by that brief time. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.640 And I knew because we knew Kevin, and I said, 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:45.760 now this the this boy looks charged up. You know, 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.160 it's a l yeah, ah uh, charge up. And that's 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.160 what it looked like to me. And I swear by that. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.160 I swear in on the Bible and I was swear 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.120 to anybody in the court of or or anything. What 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:55.560 I saw. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.959 This is all before Kevin was convicted. Was your family 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.400 shocked when he was convicted? I mean, what was the 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:03.560 reaction from your family? 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.439 If he was all shocked? Was it in sad? And 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.000 if we just sort of went to if we went 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.319 to some sort likes like sorrow, you know, And and 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:16.839 when you're in that sort of state, you know, you 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.200 understand you can't do much. You just there's more questions 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.480 and the answers, and you know, and what the hell's 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:24.600 going on in the system? 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:24.800 You know? 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.920 And and I s to this to this day. Look, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.280 I said, you know that that should have been shown 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.280 in the court of law. So someone's eh got it 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.920 or destroyed mm or something was done with it. Do 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.920 when you look at the you actually see the visual 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.800 the visual physicalities of the area was areas eer Kevin 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:54.000 was being questioned and his movements in the way he 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:55.559 was slurring his words and stuff like that. 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:56.240 MM. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.000 And I I know for myself, you know, you know 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.440 you look back and say, well, he was under pressure. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:03.680 M he was way under pressure. 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.079 Do you find it strange because we now know that 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:07.800 there were breaks in the tape, so they stopped the 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.679 tape at certain times, they didn't give him legal representation. 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.000 What do you like think when you hear that with 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:14.920 what they. 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.640 Did, Well, there's a big there's a big shock when 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.160 I had that, and there was only wa this week. 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.840 You know, I'm sure I wanna spoke these I think 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.240 this week I spoke to you. And it was a 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.200 shock because you know, there's a record of interview fair 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.960 enough you might stop for a coffee break or or 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.520 because you know, might say, well we're going on south 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.120 for he's a bit tired, it's gonna have a rest 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.840 or something. But if you're gonna chop and train and 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.520 it's get give us opportunity for cutting pasting stuff? Uh 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.360 to me? And yeah, it's it's a big shock. And 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.280 I I don't think any law enforcement today these are 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.360 sort of tactics I hope not. Well me too, you know, 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.320 And that's that's just way too many stops and no 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.360 one knows where the in between the stops or how 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:02.440 long the stops were four. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.680 How would you describe what Tanouba was like and what 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.400 it was sort of like for people in the river 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:10.640 bank back at that time. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:12.760 There was always a place to go down there and 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.560 have a feed and a sleep and a uh ketch 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.720 up with and with with family and friends. Are if 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:20.360 you're looking for someone or if you wanna go in 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.800 the a drink and get away from get away from 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.120 wherever you wanna get away from, you know, you go there. 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.200 And a lot of people at the time lived along 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.320 the root bank, you know, and it's not just blackflod 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.440 it was white flows. And I seen people from more 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.880 walks of life in it and over the years camping 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.560 in the on the room bank timber. Remember it was 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.160 a a place like an aven, you know, there was 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:43.960 an aven for people that they knew they can go 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.640 there and and be safe too, you know, because some 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.680 while we worked there at the time, looked after them, 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:50.680 you know, and make sure they had put any the 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.640 food down there. Or you know, if you needed a 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.320 shower or something and you need a bit of a 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.200 clean up, you can always go upstairs mm or apps, oh, 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.440 just for a yard, you know, and and if you 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.800 wanted to look for someone in Rocky Bactually you got 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.280 a toomber first. You know, if you. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.880 With something like you know, a murder at Tanouva, did 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.400 that send sort of shockwaves through the Aboriginal community? 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.520 Do you think, Oh yeah, and it seemed to be 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.640 it it did, you know, And we did send the shockwaves, 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:27.160 but it's sent it sent a lot of quietness too, 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.560 like people were involved in who people were involved with 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.800 that that murdered that girl, and who around that time 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.680 went quiet too? You know. Of course there was an 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.840 uproar and and you know r in around town and 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.040 then some of the queens and in society. But but 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.280 that's who got me worried about the quietness or were 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.800 people keep them quiet too mm and afraid to come 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.320 out and speak out as well? And I know a 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.360 few of them, people that I spoke to over the years, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.080 tell me still worry about what happened. And and when 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.439 I went to actually get him on tape, they did 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.240 they wouldn't do it and change their minds, you know, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.439 they they was they were under threats of violence as well, and. 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.840 They told me that, you know, do you think there's 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.719 people out there who actually know what happened? That night, 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.400 but just was too scared to say anything. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:24.200 Too scared either by the perpetrats themselves or you know, 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.280 to me, it's boy boy, I'm whether it's the police 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.919 or authorities, you know, like we don't need any more evidence. 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:34.680 We've got to a man, and blah blah blah, you know. 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.399 And and people were intimidated and stood over back then, 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.800 you know, not just the boy black flows, but a 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.919 lot of people on the room bank, especially by the cops. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.240 And I can say that too, he said. You know, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.000 I can speak like that, you know, because that happened 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:51.240 to me when I was a young feller, you know, 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.280 mind out of business, walking around town, getting questions, getting 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.960 pulled over, uh, and getting beaten up. 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:57.520 Yeah. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:17:59.160 When did that happen when you were young? 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:05.160 Yeah? Well I sixteen or seventeen, eighteen nineteen, yeah, yeah, 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:05.720 So you. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.760 Didn't have a lot of faith in cops, you reckon 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.359 a lot of not a lot of black fellows had 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:10.040 faith in cops. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:12.720 No. Well, you know, there's there's a lot of good cops, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.440 you know, but some of the fellows we ran into, 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.320 they rant any good blocks at all, you know, they 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.240 the older blocks we'd been okay, you know, that the 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.360 watchair stairs and the older fellows worked there. They're they're 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.680 pretty good, you know. But some of the other fellas s, 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:33.280 especially the detectives, and I, you know, I don't remember 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.680 getting beaten up, getting getting hit with the books oh 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:43.199 really the telephone books, you know, and there was back then, 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.040 there was you know, no monitoring and know this and 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.399 know that you know, we put in a complaint that 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:50.640 just come around the beach up again. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.760 Mm. You know before the days of the Royal Commission 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:54.800 were around the same time. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:19:00.720 Oh yeah, you know ninety one, you know, Marble was 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.080 on you know, I caught decisions. There's a lot of 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.400 all the land Rocks movements and stuff were on a hall, 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.600 you know. And and most of the euphoria too. You know, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.840 there's there's stuff that's we know, get covered up, you know. 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.520 And for the police to charge a group of people 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.720 with that murder of that girl and then drew up 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:30.160 charges against at least three them that I know, that's strange. 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.320 Mm you I if you I you know, because they 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.800 were there, you know, they we we all know people 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:37.760 now and people who were there say they were they 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.359 and what they did. And and I believed that too 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.399 because I wasn't there myself, but iled because I know 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.960 them and they know there they stood over with people 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:51.320 and intimidated people. Mm uh like Watton Brindle. Yeah, it's 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.160 and it's the sad part about it is that I'm 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.639 no one against justice, not at this state anyway, you know, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.480 you know, And that poor girls was very still crying out. 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:03.560 You know. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.880 M Yeah. 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.840 When you talk about women particularly, I mean you got 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.720 daughters and you got you know, sister and mother. R. 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.600 How do you think Aboriginal women particularly are treated when 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:25.040 it comes to issues like this? 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.639 Oh? I always say, my g girls, any of you 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:30.760 stand up for your rights and be strong, you know. 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.480 I made 'em go boxing, boxing clubs when they live younger, 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.600 you know, you know, fighting. But there's just too much, 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.920 too much of it, you know. Now. Women's folk with 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.640 you know, uh are still you know, backbone and over 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.520 every other unit of a family you know, and should 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.040 be treated as such. N And I know women or 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.000 nobody you know should be treated like that. And I 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.359 tell my girl time stand up, always stand up, you know, 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.240 and speak your mind and be strong and in the 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.560 truth you know, and and cause the truth will you 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.359 know will save you, you know, And it'll sort of 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:07.880 set you free too, Yeah. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:08.520 Yeah. 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:13.600 And I pray that the truth of what happened this 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.560 young lady comes out, you know, And people have died 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.080 in the way l up up to this point, you know, 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.840 not no one, you know, what happened with the truth 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.000 come out and drop it. The broken arts and and 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.560 broken dreams in her and and no one should be 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.399 treated with that, No, no woman, not anybody. But what 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:34.240 happened with that girl? 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.959 Yeah, kN I mean we're sitting here by the Fitzford River, 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.440 which drumble people used to call Tanuba mm. But it 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.120 has a very bloody history, doesn't it, this river? Yeah. 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:50.639 Well, if you look back in the history of this 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:55.160 country's from commonization, you know, especially and Ranald run rocky 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.960 human that's all where the well, the mask is golong 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:02.040 around this river and around this district. And and the murders, 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:03.840 you know, there's there's been murders up and down this 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.560 river that that way. I'm I've been I'm unsolved, you know. 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:12.960 And there's families grieving, you know, without known the truth. 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:16.600 And I have no inkling, and mothers and fathers have 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.240