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Speaker 1: It is going to be such a busy morning today,

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Speaker 1: and we know that the Government yesterday introduced amendments to

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Speaker 1: the Correctional Services Act to give the Corrections Commissioner the

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Speaker 1: power to appoint special well special correctional officers as well

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Speaker 1: as special Probation and parole officers. Now the amendments are

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Speaker 1: being made in an effort to support the call corrections workforce.

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Speaker 1: The Government says it's going to allow the Commissioner to

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Speaker 1: bring in experienced intero state correctional officers and we did

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Speaker 1: speak about this last week with Commissioner Valley. The problem

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Speaker 1: is the correctional staff already working in our correction facilities

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Speaker 1: are really not happy about the changes. They converged on

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Speaker 1: Parliament House earlier in the week to make that known.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the show is the Corrections Minister,

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Speaker 1: Jared Mayley. Good morning to your.

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Speaker 2: Minister, Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you on the show now, Jared, these

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Speaker 1: amendments introduced yesterday, what are you hoping that they'll achieve?

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Speaker 2: Okay, what we're trying to do. We're trying to find

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Speaker 2: a practical solution to a staff shortage in the correction system.

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Speaker 2: We know that over the last eight years that the

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Speaker 2: Labor government failed to invest in the infrastructure and deal

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Speaker 2: with the issues. We also know that there's been an

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Speaker 2: additional five hundred prisoners arrested over the last five months.

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Speaker 2: Because one of the key priorities for the Lea Pinocchio

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Speaker 2: government is who keep the community safe? So there's been

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Speaker 2: a big increase in prison numbers and we need to

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Speaker 2: make sure that the prisoners are looked after and that

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Speaker 2: the staff are also looked after in relation to working

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Speaker 2: a normal week essentially, So there's been a shortage of staff,

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Speaker 2: and what we intend to do is give the commissioners

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Speaker 2: some more options to resource his staffing better, to be

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Speaker 2: able to move the staff around to make sure that

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Speaker 2: the prisoners are full and that they're safe and the

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Speaker 2: prisoners are safe.

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Speaker 1: Minister, you've got a real juggle on your hands at

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Speaker 1: the moment, because you know, the general public are sort

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Speaker 1: of seeing this as as support for correctional service officers.

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Speaker 1: Those correctional service officers, though, who are working in these

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Speaker 1: really important, really pivotal jobs, are not happy. They are

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Speaker 1: saying that this isn't going to be helpful. They're worried

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Speaker 1: that you're going to privatize the workforce and they're worried

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Speaker 1: about safety.

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Speaker 2: Look, I can say clearly, we are not privatizing the

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Speaker 2: prison system. This is about giving the commissioner more resources

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Speaker 2: and more flexibility in relation to the workforce. We know

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Speaker 2: that the prison union we're out earlier this year saying

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Speaker 2: that they're understaffed and overworked. I've gone to the commissions

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Speaker 2: that we need all options on the table because we

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Speaker 2: need to make sure that the prison officers are safe

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Speaker 2: and they work a reasonable hours. And what I've been

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Speaker 2: told is we know that there's been services been cut,

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Speaker 2: like some educational services and rehabilitation services and some going

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Speaker 2: in in the community services. That's purely because of short staff.

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Speaker 2: Remember we brought online the Bremercrectional Center. We're bringing online

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Speaker 2: more beds in our springs. We're brought on the Holtz

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Speaker 2: Juvenile Center out at Holt. There's been a massive increase

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Speaker 2: in numbers. There's been more facilities broad on. We know

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Speaker 2: we're selling watchhouses, so it's really an issue of trying

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Speaker 2: to manage the staff. We also know that last year

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Speaker 2: there was over one hundred and sixty thousand hours and

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Speaker 2: escorting prisoners around and that's where prisoners who are from

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Speaker 2: the prison into the court or into the hospital visits.

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Speaker 2: The Commission of Ali said this morning that there's at

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Speaker 2: least five officers or five prisoners admitted into prison each day,

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Speaker 2: and that takes two officers to sit with them. So

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Speaker 2: that's four on a twenty four hour period.

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Speaker 1: Minister.

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Speaker 2: We takes them away from their It takes the prison

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Speaker 2: officers away from their core duty, which is looking after

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Speaker 2: the prisoners in the prisons.

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Speaker 1: When you talk about the number of hours, did you

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Speaker 1: say one hundred and sixty thousand hours.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it ain't overtime.

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Speaker 1: In a twelve month period, yes, which.

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Speaker 2: Costs about eleven million dollars in overtime costs.

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Speaker 1: And that's going to be my next question. I mean

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Speaker 1: that was going to be my next question. How much

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Speaker 1: does it cost so eleven million dollars over.

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Speaker 2: The course of a year, Yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: How much is it going to cost us to privatize

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Speaker 1: this part of the workforce, I the transportation and the

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Speaker 1: prisoner escorts to hospital and to courts.

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Speaker 2: Look, we haven't announced that cost yet because what we

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Speaker 2: don't want to do, Katie, is to go out there

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Speaker 2: and give an estimate what we think is going to be. Remember,

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Speaker 2: we're trying to get the best bang for taxpayers money here,

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: I get that, But then I know that you guys,

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Speaker 1: you know this week or last week, we're very critical

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Speaker 1: of the former government not sort of announcing how much

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Speaker 1: things are going to cost. So do you reckon? Territorians

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Speaker 1: have a right to know.

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Speaker 2: Look, this is a commercial procurement process. We need to

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Speaker 2: make sure we get best bang for buck. We want

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Speaker 2: to go into the private texture and say this is

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Speaker 2: the scope of work we want how much are you

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Speaker 2: going to charge us? Because what we don't want to

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Speaker 2: just go and spend taxpayers money left over or a lot,

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Speaker 2: because that's what the Labor government did. We're going to

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Speaker 2: make sure that we manage it correctly and it's all

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Speaker 2: about privacy and we need to do it a commercial feel.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon it'll be less low than that eleven

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Speaker 1: million dollars?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now I know that the Correctional officers converged on

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Speaker 1: Parliament House earlier this week. They're obviously worried, as I've

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Speaker 1: pointed out, you know, to these changes. They're concerned for

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Speaker 1: a whole raft of reasons. Why won't you meet with

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Speaker 1: them and the union.

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Speaker 2: Look, the Commissioner has tried to meet with the union

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Speaker 2: to give them an update what's going on. The union

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Speaker 2: canceled that meeting. There's been some correspondence back and forth

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Speaker 2: between the union and myself. Ultimately, it's an operational matter

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Speaker 2: and we know that there's some fact sheet. There's no

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Speaker 2: information that's been given out to the union. Effectively, they're

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Speaker 2: the ones that cancel the initial meeting, and we really

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Speaker 2: want to try and work with them, but it's an

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Speaker 2: operational thing and we need to make sure that we've

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Speaker 2: been working on it and hold on me for months now.

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Speaker 2: The head of the union we all know is the

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Speaker 2: Mouthpeace Labor. She was working with them previously. I've visited

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Speaker 2: correctional facilities right across in Northern and I've spoke with

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Speaker 2: the workforce directly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know whether there's involvement, you know,

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Speaker 1: whether she's I don't know that she worked for the

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Speaker 1: previous labor government. She has obviously been with the union

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Speaker 1: for quite some time. I'm not going to speak on

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Speaker 1: her behalf, but I guess what she is doing is

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Speaker 1: obviously doing her job or trying to do a job

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Speaker 1: in terms of representing those correctional officers that are part

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Speaker 1: of the union, and they've said that they don't want

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Speaker 1: to meet with the Commissioner, they want to meet with you.

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Speaker 2: Well, ultimately, the union can ask what they like, but

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Speaker 2: we're trying to represent the entire workforce. This is about drawing,

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Speaker 2: letting the Commission draw on a surge workforce from inter

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Speaker 2: state to be able to deal with the staffing crisis

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Speaker 2: that's caused over the previous years.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon that there are members of that workforce

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Speaker 1: that are okay with what's happening and that the union

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Speaker 1: sort of muck raking or what do you think's happening here?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, ultimately I don't want to speak on behalf,

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Speaker 2: but I've been to all the prison around in all

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Speaker 2: the churchy being to the watch houses, and I've talked

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Speaker 2: to the staff and they're all friendly, they all talk

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Speaker 2: to me and they're happy doing the job. But what

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Speaker 2: I want to tell them is no one's going to

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Speaker 2: lose their job. We're going to allow the Commission to

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Speaker 2: have more reasons to do their job better. They are

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Speaker 2: highly skilled workforce. They look after prisoners into prison and

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Speaker 2: that's what we want to continue and we want to

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Speaker 2: support them by not having them go out and do

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Speaker 2: all these prison transports. Like I said, they're highly trained.

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Speaker 2: Their job is look after the prisoners into the prison

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Speaker 2: and we want to support them do that.

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Speaker 1: Minister. One of the other concerns right now is obviously

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Speaker 1: the fact that the watch houses are being utilized to

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Speaker 1: house prisoners now. Questions had been raised by the Union

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Speaker 1: earlier this week. I know that you're also asked about

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Speaker 1: this during question time by the Independent Justine Davis about

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Speaker 1: Stringy Bark. Why isn't it being used if it could

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Speaker 1: house up to one hundred and sixty prisoners. From what we've.

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Speaker 2: Been told, well, a number of issues. One is a

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Speaker 2: staffing issue too. It's a cost issue. We've been told

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Speaker 2: that it could be up around six million dollars to

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Speaker 2: get that string your Bark operational six million, six million

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Speaker 2: because ultimately, remember when you start renovating things, you need

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Speaker 2: to go to the new Australian standards. I know that

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Speaker 2: there is issue for the fire safety, there's some ventilation upgrade,

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Speaker 2: Cee City footage upgrades. We needed strength in the door,

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Speaker 2: strength in the rooms, and remember our community is to

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Speaker 2: move the prison precinc out to Holts, and what we

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Speaker 2: don't want to do is spend money in a facility

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Speaker 2: and then just get rid of it. We know we're

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Speaker 2: spending money in Burma, we're getting it up and running,

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Speaker 2: but we are moving out to Holt and it's going

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Speaker 2: to take some time because the previous government failed to

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Speaker 2: invest in it and were moving forward.

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Speaker 1: So you reckon it's not money well spent. I mean

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Speaker 1: it would though free up all of those watch houses,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't it if it was operational.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But ultimately there are other facility. We know that

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Speaker 2: there's ninety six speeds coming line in our springs. We

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Speaker 2: know that we've got the new youth detension facility. We

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Speaker 2: know that the bearment correctional centers is coming online, so

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Speaker 2: we need to manage it correctly. We don't want to

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Speaker 2: just go and spend money all over the place. We

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Speaker 2: need to make sure that we get the money's right,

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Speaker 2: we need to get the staffing right. And ultimately this

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Speaker 2: was about we've got we're short staff and we need

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Speaker 2: to be able to get this surge in. Just let

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Speaker 2: the police do Katie. We know that the police brought

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Speaker 2: up those officers from South Australia. The Police Commission's already

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Speaker 2: got this power. He can already do this. The Commissioner

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Speaker 2: for Corrections can't do this, he can't employ people to

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Speaker 2: help that surge situation. And it's just about being having

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Speaker 2: a flexible workfloce.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know you've said that you aren't going to

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Speaker 1: be meeting with the union. I know that you've said

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Speaker 1: obviously you know these changes are operational and it's something

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Speaker 1: that the Commissioner has tried to speak with those union

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Speaker 1: representatives about. What I can see though from the discussions

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Speaker 1: that I had with the union yesterday when they spoke

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Speaker 1: to me on the show, my understanding is that they

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Speaker 1: are looking to potentially have a vote of no confidence

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Speaker 1: in Commissioner vari I mean, first off, what do you

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Speaker 1: make of that?

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Speaker 2: Well, first off, I can say I've got complete contents

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Speaker 2: in Commissioner Bali. I've got complete confidence in the executive team.

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Speaker 2: They are doing a good job under a tremendous amount

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Speaker 2: of pressure in a very short space of time. Our

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Speaker 2: laws and our policies in relation to community safety, which

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Speaker 2: is our number one priority, it is tough. There's been

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Speaker 2: five hundred more prisoners. They haven't been able to recruit,

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Speaker 2: and I do say we are still recruiting right now.

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Speaker 2: I think we've got over thirty recruit officers in training.

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Speaker 2: It takes eleven week course. So we're not going to

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Speaker 2: stop recruiting. We're going to continue to recruit curriculal officers.

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Speaker 2: But we need to make sure we get that balance right.

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Speaker 2: It's about a surge workforce to support the staff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, whose idea was it for all of these changes?

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Speaker 1: Was it a government idea or was it the commissioner's idea?

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Speaker 1: I guess you know. What I'm getting to is whether

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Speaker 1: you should actually meet with the union and with those

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Speaker 1: representatives if it is something that you and your office

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Speaker 1: have come up with and that the government's come up

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Speaker 1: with to communicate that.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, when I first come into office, I didn't

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Speaker 2: meet with the union. I've met with them face to face.

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Speaker 2: I have met with them previously. I have met with

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Speaker 2: them recently about this matter. But I went to the

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Speaker 2: commissioner and said, what are your problems? And he said, look,

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Speaker 2: we need support, and I said, give us all the

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Speaker 2: options on the table, and we want to support you.

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Speaker 2: We want to support your executive staff, we want to

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Speaker 2: support your workforce and that's what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I will say right from the outset, I

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Speaker 1: am not a voice for the union. I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to articulate what they've obviously said to me on the show.

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Speaker 1: But I mean the concern here is if you've got

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Speaker 1: a workforce that are really upset at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: they're really worried about these changes, I just wonder whether

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Speaker 1: it would be a positive move for you to actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, have a chat to them and for them

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Speaker 1: to hear it from you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Ultimately, remember then you don't represent the entire correction

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Speaker 2: of workforce. Say, there's two unions in that workforce, and

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Speaker 2: there's a whole lot of other probation officers. I think

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Speaker 2: there's some like forteen hundred or thirty one hundred staff

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Speaker 2: incrections overall in the union represent I think just under

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Speaker 2: half of them. So even though they talking that they

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Speaker 2: represent the prison off as they do, but there's corrections

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Speaker 2: is a big, big unit of lots of people, and

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Speaker 2: we know that there's short staff, we know that services

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Speaker 2: is being cut, and we want to break the cycle

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Speaker 2: of reoffending. We need to make sure we've got staff

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Speaker 2: there for reabilitation. We need to get out in the

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Speaker 2: community in mow lawns and doing it by the road.

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Speaker 2: We haven't been able to do because we're short.

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Speaker 1: Stuff, and I want to get to that because this

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Speaker 1: is something that a lot of our listeners are really

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Speaker 1: concerned with. In fact, we've got a heap of messages

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Speaker 1: this morning. But I spoke to Catherine earlier in the

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Speaker 1: week now, her ninety nine year old nan she's unable

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Speaker 1: to have her lawns mode by those low security prisoners anymore.

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Speaker 1: Because obviously I'm assuming these shortages. Well, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: really the large number of prisoners that we've got means

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Speaker 1: that all of those correctional stuff now are back behind

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Speaker 1: the wire. Is that the reason why you know this

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Speaker 1: lawn mowing that was happening and this maintenance that was

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Speaker 1: happening with the low security prisoners isn't happening.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, Okay, there's being the staff and those starts

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Speaker 2: are forced to come behind the wire because we are

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Speaker 2: transporting prisoners around. We're having prison officers sit doing watchers

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Speaker 2: at the health system, and we've had prison officers sitting

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Speaker 2: at the courts. We know that, for example, the Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court have got private security. They run it. But we

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Speaker 2: want to make sure that those prison officers get back

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Speaker 2: into the prisons and do their jobs, that we can

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Speaker 2: offer those services. Remember, it's not only about mowing their lawns,

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Speaker 2: which is great. It is about giving some of these

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Speaker 2: reads an opportunity to get out there and rehab and

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Speaker 2: redegrade in society and so that when they get out

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Speaker 2: of prison they've got some skills.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm just going to read some of these messages

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Speaker 1: out too that we have received. So Judea been in

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Speaker 1: contact with us. She said, My elderly disabled mother has

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Speaker 1: had the Correctional Services mow her lawn for several years,

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Speaker 1: as she's eighty four and no longer able to do

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Speaker 1: it herself. She needs to have a lawn mode to

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Speaker 1: get from the house to the car to get to

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Speaker 1: the specialist's appointments. It's near impossible to use a walker

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Speaker 1: through the lawn grass. She's now going to have to

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Speaker 1: pay at least one hundred dollars a month for this

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Speaker 1: serves for a pensioner, that's a lot of money. That's

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Speaker 1: twenty five dollars a week of her food money that

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government's now taking from her. Now Jude says,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much Northern Territory government for helping the

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Speaker 1: decline of quality of life by taking away the service.

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Speaker 1: I'm very frustrated and really disappointed, Minister. What is there

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Speaker 1: something we can do here to try and continue to

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Speaker 1: help these senior territorians that clearly need it.

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Speaker 2: Ultimately, we're going to try and pass the legislation today.

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Speaker 2: It's on urgency because we know that there's a staff shortage.

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Speaker 2: We will be able to start a surge in the

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Speaker 2: next week or so. So look, we expect to bring

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Speaker 2: these programs back online in the very near future. So

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Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons why we're doing it on urgency,

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Speaker 2: because we've heard the community, We've heard the workforce, I've

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Speaker 2: heard the conditioner and his executive and something needs to

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Speaker 2: be done. Katie. This is a year of action. We're

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Speaker 2: making some tough decisions, how and I fully accept that

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Speaker 2: some people aren't going to like them. But in the

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Speaker 2: long run, we want to make sure that the prison

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Speaker 2: system run smoothly, that the Commissioner has got all the

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Speaker 2: resources available to make sure that the services that we

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Speaker 2: are speaking about are up and running and can be

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Speaker 2: done and expanded as well. We want to make sure

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Speaker 2: that it's about the rehabilitation, and we want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that the prison officers work their work a normal

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Speaker 2: week and go home and spend time with their families.

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Speaker 2: We need that week.

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Speaker 1: So obviously that legislation, you're hoping that it's going to

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Speaker 1: pass this week. I mean, the reality of it is,

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Speaker 1: so even if that legislation passes this week, do you

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Speaker 1: then anticipate that we would have a surge workforce from

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Speaker 1: interstate coming within the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: We look ultimately, I think we need about the Commissioner

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Speaker 2: saying today we need probably fifty or sixty officers. We're

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Speaker 2: not going to get them in a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 2: but we're anticipating some more officers coming in the next

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Speaker 2: two or three weeks. We've get to get up and

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Speaker 2: running because we need to get the staffing numbers sorted out.

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Speaker 2: We can't have this surge in numbers without having an

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Speaker 2: increased workforce, and we want to bring these services back

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Speaker 2: in line. The only way to do that is to

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Speaker 2: get more stuff. Like we're recruiting right now. There's over

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Speaker 2: thirty officers in the recruit training, but we just can't

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Speaker 2: keep up and we need to search, just like the

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Speaker 2: police do with the South Australian Police.

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Speaker 1: So Minister, what's the message to those pensioners a lot?

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Speaker 1: You know, like some of these seniors listen to the

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Speaker 1: show every day that are now without that service, their

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Speaker 1: children listen to the show. What is your message to

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Speaker 1: them about, you know, about what some might see as

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Speaker 1: quite a small thing, you know, their lawns being mode.

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Speaker 1: But when is it going to get back up and running.

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Speaker 1: When are those seniors going to be able to be

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Speaker 1: helped again and those low security prisoners able to get

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Speaker 1: back out and you know, give back to the community.

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Speaker 2: Well, look what I can say to them, Katie is look,

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Speaker 2: we've heard what you say, we understand your situation, and

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Speaker 2: we're going to get that done as soon as we can.

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Speaker 2: And what I will do is direct the Commissioner to

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Speaker 2: that'll be the first service brought back on line. So

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Speaker 2: as soon as we get our surge forced back in

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Speaker 2: and we get running, the first thing that will come

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Speaker 2: back in line is getting those lawns mode and getting

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Speaker 2: the rebilitation done. So what I can say is that

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Speaker 2: will be the first service brought back online and we'll

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Speaker 2: do as soon as we possibly.

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Speaker 1: Can I know you're absolutely under the pump, and I

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Speaker 1: am going to let you go. But just one final question.

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Speaker 1: If that service isn't happening, and if that program isn't happening,

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Speaker 1: how many of the others aren't I'm assuming that all

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Speaker 1: of the of the usual rehab programs aren't really able

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Speaker 1: to happen at this point.

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Speaker 2: Well, what's been cut is the industry training and all

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Speaker 2: the you know, the workforceing that like all the education programs.

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Speaker 2: I went to the youth Detention center. They've still got

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Speaker 2: the education programs running. But what is is the services

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Speaker 2: that run, like the law knowing, the behavioral change programs,

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Speaker 2: the educational programs, and there's more lockdowns. Look, and I'm

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Speaker 2: fully acknowledged it's not ideal, but this is why we're

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Speaker 2: doing what we're doing on urgency. We've got a staff shortage.

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Speaker 2: These services have been cut because we don't have enough staff.

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Speaker 2: We've recognized it and like, this is a year of action.

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Speaker 2: Some people aren't going to like the decisions, but that's

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Speaker 2: what we're going to do because we need to make

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Speaker 2: sure that the correction systems that a 've been running

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Speaker 2: to keep our community safe and offer those services to

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Speaker 2: those ninety nine year old people who deserve to get

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Speaker 2: the lawn mode.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, look I think the sooner the better that

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Speaker 1: we can get to, you know, get those corrections. Well

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Speaker 1: the prisoners, I should say, back out there and helping

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Speaker 1: those Northern Territory seniors. Jered Mayley, Minister ful corrections. We'll

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Speaker 1: leave it there, thanks so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, thank you,