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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Forget gentle parenting

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Speaker 1: and helicopter parenting and tiger parenting. There is a new

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Speaker 1: boss in town. And it goes by four letters that

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Speaker 1: would make your grandma blush. In fact, it goes by

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Speaker 1: four letters that I would even be uncomfortable with. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to change the name already. It's called faffo

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Speaker 1: f a F parenting. That's the latest parenting style on

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Speaker 1: the block. The F stands for something that I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to say, so I'm going to say, fuss around

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Speaker 1: and find out. Fuss around and find out for those

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Speaker 1: who are keeping score at home. And yes, this parenting

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Speaker 1: style means that parents are literally throwing their kids in ponds,

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Speaker 1: making them buy their own underwear, letting them walk home

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Speaker 1: in thunderstorms. It's a tough love comeback. Is it what

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Speaker 1: parents the world over have been waiting for? Or has

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Speaker 1: the pendulum swung so far from gentle parenting that we've

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Speaker 1: landed in the middle of Lord of the Flies. Stick around,

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Speaker 1: because today we're diving deep into why this viral parenting

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Speaker 1: trend might be setting our kids up for exactly the

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Speaker 1: opposite of what we think we're teaching them. The Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal is making a noise about FAFO parenting. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about it next. Stay with us.

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Speaker 2: The newest trend on TikTok is fathole parenting, an acronym

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Speaker 2: for f around and find out what this trend is

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Speaker 2: talking about is the cause and effect method. Fafole parenting

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Speaker 2: is when a mom or dad doesn't come in for

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Speaker 2: the save, but rather, let's life teach the lesson.

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Speaker 1: Hello thanks to joining us on a Happy Family podcast,

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Speaker 1: Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast, Real Parenting Solutions. Every single day.

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Speaker 1: We are Justin and Kylie Colson, parents have six kids

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Speaker 1: and today FAFA parenting under the Spotlight. Never had a

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Speaker 1: fafaux parent on parental guidance Kylie, Yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Just wondering whether or not they've all been to English classes.

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Speaker 1: Is this like, well, you've got fly in fly out,

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Speaker 1: that's fi FO and this is fatho fuss around and

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Speaker 1: find out. It's like when you look at your child

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Speaker 1: and you say you really want to do that, fuss

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Speaker 1: around and find out that's that kind of that's the

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Speaker 1: concept behind fafax parenting.

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Speaker 3: It just think of it as the end, doesn't roll

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Speaker 3: off the tongue.

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Speaker 1: No, well, I mean this is what social media does,

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Speaker 1: though it immense new periity styles. I'm looking at as

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Speaker 1: the antithesis of every gentle parenting Instagram post you've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: So gentle parenting like doctor Becky Kennedy says, validate feelings,

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Speaker 1: off the choices, and fafoux parents say, make a choice,

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Speaker 1: live with it. Okay, you've eaten a bad burrito. Too bad,

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Speaker 1: that's what you decided to eat. The Wall Street Journals

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Speaker 1: Ellen Gammerman over the last and we'll link to this

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. You will need a subscription to

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Speaker 1: get past the paywall. But she has profiled parents who

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Speaker 1: are embracing what they call natural consequences. It's not actually

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Speaker 1: natural consequences, let me be clear about that, but that's

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Speaker 1: what they're calling it. They've embraced it with a vengeance.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about a mum who threw her thirteen year

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Speaker 1: old in a pond when he sprayed it with a

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Speaker 1: water gun after he is told not to where talking

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Speaker 1: about a child psychologist pains me to say this one

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Speaker 1: a child psychologist who made her eight year old by

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Speaker 1: his own replacement underwear with his allowance after he had

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Speaker 1: some bathroom accidents and didn't seem to be learning. I

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Speaker 1: might just add in brackets. Turns out that it was

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Speaker 1: a medical issue. She apologized, but it highlights a concern

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Speaker 1: that I have with fafaux parenting that will address a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. Basically, fafaux parenting represents this really dramatic

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Speaker 1: shift that I think we've had. Gentle parenting has dominated

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Speaker 1: the parenting discourse for the last decade, and my take

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Speaker 1: on this is gentle parenting is just too hard and

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Speaker 1: that's why so many people complain about it so much.

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Speaker 1: But fafau parenting is just this dramatic shift from where

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Speaker 1: we've been to where I know a lot of parents

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Speaker 1: are feeling like they're supposed to go because gentle parenting

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Speaker 1: is so hard.

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Speaker 3: This just feels like to me a bit of a

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Speaker 3: knee jerk reaction because parents are struggling to be emotionally regulated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe there's too many of their parents who

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Speaker 1: were saying enough of this namby Pamby stuff. So let's

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Speaker 1: be clear. I'm not a gentle parenting advocate. I don't

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Speaker 1: like gentle parenting because I think it is too hard.

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Speaker 1: That's why I talk about need supportive parenting. Our approach,

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Speaker 1: my approach is completely different to gentle parenting. There's crossover,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the same thing. But this is just

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Speaker 1: a knee jerk reaction with people saying us stuff it.

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Speaker 1: The kids just need to do as they're told or

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Speaker 1: they'll suffer the consequences.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it feels like to me in so many regards,

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Speaker 3: we're taking ten steps backwards in our efforts to help

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Speaker 3: our children recognize not only their own humanity, but the

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Speaker 3: humanity of everyone else around them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically, connection before correction is out emotion regulation,

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Speaker 1: which is not that bothered about it anymore. Regulate your

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Speaker 1: own stupid emotions if you want to be that silly.

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Speaker 2: There's this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's quite confronting when you think about it.

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Speaker 1: FAFO parents, I would say, just saying, we tried being gentle,

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Speaker 1: our kids walked all over us. So now it's side

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Speaker 1: for some old school reality checks. That's how I'm seeing it.

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Speaker 1: The subtext really, gentle parenting has created a generation of

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Speaker 1: soft and entitled kids who can't handle the real world,

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Speaker 1: and FAFO is the pendulum swim, arriving coincidentally around about

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Speaker 1: the same time that Donald Trump becomes president. Yeah, just

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Speaker 1: putting that out there. But here's where it gets interesting

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Speaker 1: to me. And I think we need to dig deeper

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Speaker 1: than the viral TikTok takes. I want us to investigate

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Speaker 1: arguments both for and against FAFO, fuss around and find

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Speaker 1: out parenting. So I've put together a list of three

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Speaker 1: reasons that people might be for it, and then three

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Speaker 1: reasons that I'm against it, and what to do instead.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's dig in what's number one?

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Speaker 1: All right, I have my shovel. Let's start digging the

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Speaker 1: case for fatheau paring. And this is hard for me

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Speaker 1: because I don't love it. I have some really big reservations.

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Speaker 1: But this I think is the strongest argument of all

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Speaker 1: real world preparation. Real world preparation fatheaux parents do have

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Speaker 1: a point when they say that the world is not

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Speaker 1: a kind place. The world is not a gentle place.

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Speaker 1: Your boss is not going to validate your feelings when

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Speaker 1: you miss a deadline or when you don't shot up

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Speaker 1: for work. The bank isn't going to have empy before

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Speaker 1: you because you can't make your mortgage payment. So the

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Speaker 1: fa Feau line is basically I'm doing my kids a

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Speaker 1: favor by teaching them very very early that actions have

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Speaker 1: consequences period like no cushioning, no duos, no participation medals

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Speaker 1: for everybody. Really simple logic. Learn the lessons at home

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Speaker 1: where the stakes are low. Much better to do that

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Speaker 1: than out in the real world, where the stakes are

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Speaker 1: significantly higher and the pain is a lot greater.

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Speaker 3: This just is insane to me what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying I agree with that.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying to understand, But the argument just sits so

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Speaker 3: uncomfortably with me, Because just because the rest of the

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Speaker 3: world is harsh and horrible, does that mean that I

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Speaker 3: have to follow the crowd and join in Like that

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Speaker 3: doesn't make any sense to me. I want to be

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Speaker 3: a soft and safe place for my kid. The rest

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Speaker 3: of the world isn't. They're not invested in my child

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Speaker 3: the way I am, So why would I want to

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Speaker 3: be anything other than a safe place for my kid?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, fundamentally, And this is coming up in part two.

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Speaker 1: But this is a misunderstanding about how boundaries work and

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Speaker 1: how problem discipline is really about problem solving. I've been

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Speaker 1: saying that ad nauseum for years now. But if we

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Speaker 1: can just get in our heads that discipline is not

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Speaker 1: about hurting our kids to teach them a lesson. Discipline

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Speaker 1: is about problem solving so that they can discover lessons.

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Speaker 3: I remember when I got my very first job and

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Speaker 3: my boss was awful to me. She was really really

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Speaker 3: awful to me until I had a medical challenge and

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Speaker 3: she stepped up to the plate and she was amazing

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Speaker 3: and we got to have some really good conversations. And

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Speaker 3: at that point she actually shared with me that her

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Speaker 3: boss before her had been awful to her, and she

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Speaker 3: just assumed that.

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Speaker 1: That's what boss did. One of my first bosses, I

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Speaker 1: actually had an exercise book and I used to take

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Speaker 1: notes of all the things to not do when I

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Speaker 1: was a boss because he was just awful. He was awful.

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Speaker 1: So being the soft place at home will definitely help,

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Speaker 1: I think. Anyway, that's the first argument. There was a

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Speaker 1: tough place the kids need to learn it where the

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Speaker 1: stake's are low at home.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm just putting holes in your arguments, but number two, this.

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Speaker 1: Is going to be a long podcast if you keep

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Speaker 1: doing this, all right. The second argument that I think

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Speaker 1: that Fafeaux parents are making is that Fathau parenting requires

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Speaker 1: clear boundaries and expectations. There is something refreshingly straightforward about

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Speaker 1: fafaux parenting because you don't have to have any complex

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Speaker 1: emotional negotiations, you don't have to go through the endless explanations.

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Speaker 1: There's no bargaining with tiny terrorists. There als are really

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Speaker 1: clear immediate consequences. Everyone knows where they stand. And for

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Speaker 1: parents who are exhausted. So I watch gentle parents on

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Speaker 1: social media that are sort of making the argument this

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Speaker 1: is really hard, and I'm watching them even on parental guidance,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going, seriously, some parents they make it look

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Speaker 1: so so hard.

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Speaker 3: Well there are no boundaries though.

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Speaker 1: That's right, or they're being so soft that they're not

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Speaker 1: effective and doing boundaries the way that they need to

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Speaker 1: be done. And so fathaux parenting offers this simplicity. I

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Speaker 1: told you what would happen. You chose to test it

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Speaker 1: out here we are Yeah.

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Speaker 3: For me, I just I think about this idea.

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Speaker 1: You're going to argue about it again, I am this

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Speaker 1: is just the argument for it.

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Speaker 3: I am because because we want to evaluate our performance

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Speaker 3: as a parent based on where our child is as

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Speaker 3: a ten year old or a five year old, or

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Speaker 3: a seven year old, or even a fifteen year old,

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Speaker 3: and we don't realize that we're in this for the

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Speaker 3: long game. This is a long game, and the experience

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Speaker 3: is that we're having with our children. They are really messy,

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Speaker 3: they're so messy, But it's what happens later. It's actually

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Speaker 3: what happens when they leave the house that makes the difference.

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Speaker 1: You're going to enjoy the second half of this podcast

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Speaker 1: if we ever get to Okay, number three, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to rush you, but I know, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is a podcast for time p or parents who just

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Speaker 1: want answers. The third and five, I.

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Speaker 3: Want good answers. You're not giving me anything good yet.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying this is what FAFO parents would

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Speaker 1: be arguing, is why this works. The third one is

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Speaker 1: that it's going to be a resilience bill, to believe

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Speaker 1: it or not. In fact, some people in the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal said to the author of this article, FAFAUX

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Speaker 1: advocates argue that constantly protecting kids from discomfort creates fragility,

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Speaker 1: not strength. When everything is cautioned and consequence free, how

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Speaker 1: to children learn to bounce back from setbacks. So basically,

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Speaker 1: these parents believe that if you can experience what they're

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Speaker 1: going to call manageable hardships like getting soaked in the

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Speaker 1: rain because you didn't bring your code, or going hungry

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Speaker 1: toil breakfast because you refuse to have dinner, builds genuine

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Speaker 1: gritten problem solving skills.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So does a kid that gets up at two

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Speaker 3: thirty in the morning to go and mark out stables

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Speaker 3: and do hard, hard work. Yes, yeah, and they do

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Speaker 3: it autonomously.

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Speaker 1: I would also add that the evidence doesn't necessarily support that,

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Speaker 1: like it's good for kids to have manageable, age appropriate difficulties.

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Speaker 1: That is true, but I think that they're overinterpreting what

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Speaker 1: the research tells. So after the break, let's make you

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Speaker 1: feel better about life. I'll tell you why I don't

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Speaker 1: like FAFAU parenting. You've already explained why you don't and

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Speaker 1: why I don't think you should adopt it. Okay, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: the case against fafax parenting, even though it is the

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Speaker 1: new trend on TikTok and the Wall Street journals make

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Speaker 1: a big deal about it, and I have seen this

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Speaker 1: everywhere on social media over the last few weeks. This

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Speaker 1: article keeps on popping up and there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of parents who are saying, finally, we don't have to

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Speaker 1: keep on bubble wrapping our kids.

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Speaker 3: To me again, this just says more about where they

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Speaker 3: are in their emotional journey than it is about the.

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Speaker 1: Kids they wish. I mean, we've got six kids. Our

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Speaker 1: youngest is eleven, in her mid twenties. We have been

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Speaker 1: parenting for for nearly twenty six years. Yeah, nearly twenty

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Speaker 1: six years. Don't you just wish, knowing what we know now,

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Speaker 1: that we could go back and start again, Like if

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Speaker 1: you could implant the stuff that we've learned into our

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Speaker 1: brains as twenty something year olds having our first child,

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Speaker 1: we would do it so differently. We should do a

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Speaker 1: podcast on that what I would do differently.

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Speaker 3: I just recently had a conversation with our daughter. She's

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Speaker 3: on camp and she's going through a really, really rough patch.

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Speaker 3: She rang me and I heard the with her in

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Speaker 3: a voice, and I was like, oh, darling, what's going on?

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Speaker 3: And so she started telling me all the things that

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Speaker 3: was just really.

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Speaker 1: Hard about Before you go on FATHO, parents would say

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Speaker 1: you wanted to go to this school, you wanted to

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Speaker 1: go to this camp, this is what you this is

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Speaker 1: what you signed up for deal with it, like, stop winging,

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Speaker 1: just get on with it.

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Speaker 3: And so I sat there and I listened, and I

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Speaker 3: suggested that what she was experiencing was hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I.

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Speaker 3: Also suggested that there were lots of things to look

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Speaker 3: forward to in the coming weeks that would mean that

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Speaker 3: this would pale into insignificance in time. And we got

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Speaker 3: to the end of the conversation and she said, Mamma,

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Speaker 3: really appreciate you picking up the phone and letting me talk.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be okay, I've got this and I've

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Speaker 3: done much harder things than this before, but I'm so

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Speaker 3: glad I got to hear your voice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. That really should be our older better

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Speaker 1: tomorrow because that's such a good story. But that's the difference,

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Speaker 1: right FATHO parenting is you chose it, deal with the consequences.

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Speaker 1: You're not necessarily being a quote unquote gentle parent. What

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Speaker 1: you're doing is you're giving your child the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: just expect how they're feeling, and then after they've listen

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Speaker 1: to they go, Okay, I'm good, Now I can get

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Speaker 1: on with it.

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Speaker 3: We recognize and know and understand that as we process emotions.

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Speaker 3: We're able to move through them all right without her

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Speaker 3: being able to talk about it. She just sits in

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Speaker 3: that place.

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Speaker 1: That's right, ruminates, feels horrible. So and it's got to

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Speaker 1: be problem focused, right, like we're solving problems here. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the case against fafaux parenting. The first of

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Speaker 1: three big reasons that I don't like it why I

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Speaker 1: don't think you should adopt her as follow The first

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Speaker 1: one is this it damages the parent child relationship.

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Speaker 3: Well, my daughter rings me, she's sad, she's upset, she's

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Speaker 3: having a hard time, and I tell it, suck it up, princess.

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Speaker 1: She's not ringing you next time.

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Speaker 3: She's not going to ring me. It's exactly not having

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Speaker 3: those conversations with me ever again.

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Speaker 1: And this is what I think FAFAU parents might be missing.

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Speaker 1: Your relationship with the kids is the foundation for everything

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Speaker 1: else that happens in their life. And if you want

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Speaker 1: them to do resilient, the best way for them resilience

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Speaker 1: is actually about relationships first. When relationships are present, resilience

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Speaker 1: is the natural extension of good relationships because you've got

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Speaker 1: the soft space to fall back onto.

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Speaker 3: You know someone's got your back. You know someone's championing

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Speaker 3: you on even when it's hard and it looks messy

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Speaker 3: and you're making a big mess of it.

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Speaker 1: So when you become the opposite, the tough enough princess,

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Speaker 1: the enforcer of harsh consequences, rather than a guide or

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Speaker 1: a support system like you described a second ago, what

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Speaker 1: you do is you change that dynamic and kids start

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Speaker 1: seeing you as an adversary that they have to outmaneuver

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Speaker 1: instead of an ally that they can trust. And once

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Speaker 1: that trust is broken, good like getting them to talk

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Speaker 1: to you or come to you when they're actually in

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Speaker 1: trouble because trust it right, believing that you're going to

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Speaker 1: act in my best interest. If I say suck it up, princess,

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Speaker 1: I'm not acting in that kid's best interest. They know it.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to talk to me again.

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Speaker 3: And they're going to go anywhere to find a soft

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Speaker 3: place anywhere. So that could be a school friend who's

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Speaker 3: not good for them. It could be another parent, it

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Speaker 3: could be another adult. You have no influence over them

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Speaker 3: once you've lost that relationship.

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Speaker 1: Spot on, exactly right, what's number two?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 1: The second reason that I think that we should not

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Speaker 1: adopt this is that again, it confuses, as I said

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Speaker 1: in the first half of this conversation, it confuses punishment

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Speaker 1: with learning boundaries, like it just muddles it all up.

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Speaker 1: So making your child go without lunch because they forgot

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Speaker 1: their lunch box, that doesn't teach them lunch preparedness. It

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Speaker 1: teaches that Mum and dad are going to let bad

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Speaker 1: things happen to prove a point. I mean, if this

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Speaker 1: is an ongoing issue, then we need to solve the problem.

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Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that it's not a problem, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not suggesting that we should keep on running lunch boxes

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Speaker 1: up to school. Or if your child doesn't remember their

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Speaker 1: raincoat or their umbrella and you make them walk over

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Speaker 1: the thunderstorm, it doesn't teach weather preparedness. They're not going

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Speaker 1: to start checking the schedule that's not the schedule, the

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Speaker 1: forecast every day to make sure they've got the right

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Speaker 1: wet weather gear. It just teaches them parents will make

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Speaker 1: them suffer if they make decisions that just to prove

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Speaker 1: a point. Solving the problem means that we have conversations,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is the central thing. There's a

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Speaker 1: big difference between a natural consequence and manufactured hardship. Real learning,

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Speaker 1: it will happen through understanding cause and effect. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think that real learning happens through powerplays, and FAFO

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Speaker 1: seems to skip past the learning and goes straight to

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Speaker 1: the suffering ouch that urns.

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Speaker 3: What's number three?

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Speaker 1: The last one is that it just creates compliance, not character,

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Speaker 1: Like we want to raise kids with character. We want

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Speaker 1: to raise kids who are going to have integrity and

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Speaker 1: empathy and kindness, And no we don't and be on

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Speaker 1: the lookout.

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Speaker 3: On their model.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so FAFAU parenting is about producing obedient children. But

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Speaker 1: obedience is not the same as character. Obedience is not

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Speaker 1: the same as respect. Obedience is not the same as

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Speaker 1: good judgment. When kids behave primarily so they can avoid punishment,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to develop an internal moral compass. This

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Speaker 1: is something that alfie Con writes about beautifully and eloquently

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Speaker 1: and punished by rewards. Rewards and punishments undermine moral development

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Speaker 1: because kids aren't doing things for the right reasons. They're

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Speaker 1: doing things because they want to get the good or

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Speaker 1: avoid the nasty stuff. They just don't want to get caught.

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Speaker 1: They're developing smartest strategies, sweeping stuff under the rug, hiding

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Speaker 1: behind the couch so they don't get caught. The moment

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Speaker 1: that surveillance stops, all bets are off. We want kids

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Speaker 1: who are going to make good choices because they understand

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Speaker 1: why those choices matter, not because they're afraid of what

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Speaker 1: happens if they don't. So, in a nutshell, not a

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Speaker 1: fan of fafaux parenting. I don't think the Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Journal should have given it nearly the amount of air

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Speaker 1: that it got, And I'm disappointed that it's showing up

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Speaker 1: on so many parenting blogs and so many Instagram stories

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Speaker 1: because it's a bad parenting style and it doesn't support kids'

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Speaker 1: basic psychological needs. I guess that's a right, okay. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Mimhammon's provides admin research and other support. If you'd like

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Speaker 1: more information about fafaux parenting in jump into our show

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Speaker 1: notes you'll find all the details there. We're going to

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Speaker 1: turn this one into a blog as well and stick

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Speaker 1: it all over our socials and pop it up on

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Speaker 1: our Happy Family's website. So if you would like more

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Speaker 1: information and reas sources to make your family happier visit

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Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot au and if this will

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Speaker 1: help somebody else make their family happier, please share it

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Speaker 1: with