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Speaker 1: Well, as I've just touched on some massive news over

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Speaker 1: the weekend, the Northern Territory Police Commissioner Michael Murphy publicly

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Speaker 1: apologizing to Indigenous territories for the harms and injustices caused

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Speaker 1: by the force over the past one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: four years of policing. Now the Commissioner delivering that apology

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Speaker 1: at the Gama Festival on Saturday, we know then that

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Speaker 1: the vice president of the Northern Territory Police Association had

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Speaker 1: come out and said the speech and its entirety was

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Speaker 1: sent to the media before the membership, and that it's

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Speaker 1: not the role of police to assess the success or

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Speaker 1: otherwise of federal government directed policies of closing the gap,

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Speaker 1: the stolen generation and the intervention, as the Commissioner has done.

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Speaker 1: Now as a result of those comments made by the Association,

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Speaker 1: Michael Murphy, the Northern Territory Police Commissioner, has now resigned

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Speaker 1: from his membership from the police union, which represents ninety

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Speaker 1: eight percent of the police force. So I think that

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Speaker 1: that's a point well worth making this morning, is that

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Speaker 1: most are unions realistically don't have numbers that are that

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Speaker 1: high that represent a workforce to that level.

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Speaker 2: It is quite a miss.

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Speaker 1: I think you'd have to say right now, the fact

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Speaker 1: that this is all unfolded just three weeks out from

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Speaker 1: an election.

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Speaker 2: Not so much the apology. I mean I do question

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Speaker 2: the timing of it.

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Speaker 1: But joining me in the studio right now is the

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Speaker 1: opposition leader Leah Finocchio.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie into your listeners.

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Speaker 2: First off, what do you make of the apology.

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Speaker 4: I think everyone's really been taken by surprise on this, Katie.

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Speaker 4: There's times and places for apologies, but we're certainly very

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Speaker 4: concerned for the frontline. We know our police have not

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Speaker 4: been supported by the Labor government for a number of years,

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Speaker 4: resulting in low levels of morale and high rates of

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Speaker 4: police leaving the force. And so the fact that you

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Speaker 4: know the Labor government, you know, evil Law has got

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Speaker 4: to explain how long she's known about this forum, why

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Speaker 4: it wasn't communication to the public and to the police force.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, we are due to catch up with the

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Speaker 1: police Police Minister Brent Potter in just a couple of

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Speaker 1: moments time, so no doubt we'll ask that. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you agree with the apology. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: it's the right move.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think there's a time and place for that.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's the priority right now. We have

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Speaker 4: a police force who've gone through a very tumultuous time.

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Speaker 4: We saw labor with the bungled sacking of the previous

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Speaker 4: Police commissioner and it certainly had a very profound impact

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Speaker 4: on the front line. We've certainly received a lot of

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Speaker 4: feedback from members feeling like this is just more blame

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Speaker 4: being shifted on to them, and so it's undoubtedly going

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Speaker 4: to cause and gain another period of instability and uncertainty,

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Speaker 4: which is not something we need at this time.

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Speaker 2: I suppose from the.

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Speaker 1: Other perspective, some maybe looking at this from the outside

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Speaker 1: in and going well, we are due to have the

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Speaker 1: findings handed down from a coronial inquest, which we know

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Speaker 1: throughout that coronial we have seen evidence of racism within

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Speaker 1: the Northern.

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Speaker 2: Territory Police Force.

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Speaker 1: So some may be sort of watching all of this thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: it is the right move from the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 1: Commissioner to apologize to Indigenous people if we're ever going

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Speaker 1: to mean into the gap.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think it's how you handle these things, Katie.

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Speaker 4: Now we've got men and women out there on the

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Speaker 4: front line dealing with the greatest crime crisis we've ever had.

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Speaker 4: They are under resource and undersupported by the government and

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Speaker 4: I think, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, we're in caretaker mode.

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Speaker 4: The Chief Minister this morning on ABC radio said for

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Speaker 4: the last two months, you know there's been discussion, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, did she influence the Police commissioner to go

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Speaker 4: and do this?

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Speaker 2: So you think that the commissioners had political influence?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the question is more to the government

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Speaker 4: around did they want him to do this because they

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Speaker 4: weren't at Gama.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's just.

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Speaker 4: So close to an election, and also the timing for

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Speaker 4: our police when they need to know, really be focusing

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Speaker 4: on dealing with the crime crisis and feeling supported.

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Speaker 3: I think this is just really for a lot of them.

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Speaker 2: So I just want to get this straight.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the Northern Territory Labor Party having

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Speaker 1: influenced the Police Commissioner in terms of making this apology?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think they must have known about it, and

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Speaker 4: in which case, why wasn't this communicated to people going forward?

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Speaker 4: It came as a surprise to everybody. I've spoken to

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Speaker 4: Katie and certainly the reaction has been surprising. And then

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Speaker 4: you've got this issue of resigning from the Police Association,

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Speaker 4: which I think will further, you know, cause strain on

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Speaker 4: our frontline police force. And what we want is really

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Speaker 4: strong relationships a strong force going forward. They've got a

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Speaker 4: huge job to do and we fully support our police

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Speaker 4: in the task ahead of them, and you know, this

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Speaker 4: uncertainty just doesn't help.

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Speaker 2: With the move that the Police Commissioner has made.

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Speaker 1: There is no doubt that he has hoped that this

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Speaker 1: move would be a step in the right direction and

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Speaker 1: that what it's going to do is take all of

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Speaker 1: the Northern territory you know, along on this journey and

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Speaker 1: bring people together.

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Speaker 2: Do you think he's achieved that aim?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think it's been handled badly and I really

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Speaker 4: question the role of the government in this. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's their responsibility. This is a major statement made at

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Speaker 4: a major event.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is that a bit disrespectful to the Police

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Speaker 1: commissioner given the fact that he is an independent public

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Speaker 1: service servant? I should say, who has to make those

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Speaker 1: decisions himself?

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Speaker 4: Well, the Police Commissioner can make the decisions he needs

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Speaker 4: to make. My question really is is how long has

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Speaker 4: the government known about this, and why hasn't it been

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Speaker 4: communicated this intention to the public and more importantly to

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Speaker 4: our police, who are very clearly unhappy about what's going on.

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Speaker 4: And so I think it's just more destabilization, more uncertainty,

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Speaker 4: and the focus really has to be about improving the

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Speaker 4: lives of Aboriginal people right across the territory, on tackling crime,

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Speaker 4: and on supporting our frontline police to be able to

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Speaker 4: deal with the enormous increase in we've experienced under labor.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think though the moves that are

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Speaker 1: being made, or certainly the announcement that's been made in

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Speaker 1: terms of in this part of it's not new, but

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Speaker 1: thirty percent Indigenous workforce and some of the other measures

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Speaker 1: and some of the other things that were announced as

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Speaker 1: part of that speech, do you think that they're a

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Speaker 1: good move and a good step in the right direction.

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Speaker 4: We certainly support the increase, and the Police Association actually

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Speaker 4: said we need those really clear pathways for our Aboriginal

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Speaker 4: community police officers to be able to transition to constable

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Speaker 4: and we wholeheartedly agree with that. But what we need

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Speaker 4: to do is make sure all of our police feel

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Speaker 4: supported and you know, they're facing and have faced very

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Speaker 4: tough times over a significant period. We've got to make

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Speaker 4: sure they feel like they're supported and can take on

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Speaker 4: this enormous level of crime that the government has put

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Speaker 4: on them.

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Speaker 1: Now. In all of the coverage over the weekend, there

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Speaker 1: was a line from that speech which I've already had

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Speaker 1: listeners contact me about after reading it in an article

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Speaker 1: online on the ABA, and it's the line that sees

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Speaker 1: one police are routinely tasked with enforcing policies, laws and regulations,

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Speaker 1: both federal and here in the Northern Territory that are

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Speaker 1: often influenced by media coverage of crime, victims and community safety,

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Speaker 1: regardless of the data and evidence. Regardless of the data,

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Speaker 1: evidence and expert advice.

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Speaker 2: What did you make of that comment?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't quite understand it myself, Katie. What we

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Speaker 4: know is that crime is out of control and we

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Speaker 4: want our police to be supported with the resources, the

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Speaker 4: personnel and the powers to be able to deal with it. Now,

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Speaker 4: if the Commissioner is saying there's the external influences that

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Speaker 4: lead police's decision making, then that's something that needs to

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Speaker 4: be looked at.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, do you believe that policies should be

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Speaker 1: driven by victims of crime and community safety.

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Speaker 3: Well, of course we.

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Speaker 4: Need regardless of the data, we absolutely need to make

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Speaker 4: people feel safe to be more victim focused.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how many times.

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Speaker 4: On your show, Katie, I've said that this government is

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Speaker 4: putting the rights of offenders above the rights of people

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Speaker 4: to be safe.

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Speaker 3: So again I think.

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Speaker 4: If this, you know, perhaps this is just a.

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Speaker 2: Playing Devil's advocate here.

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Speaker 1: And look, I want to say that the listeners who've

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Speaker 1: been in contact with us have said that they felt

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Speaker 1: like that was a real kick in the guts in

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Speaker 1: terms of being a victim of crime and feeling like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, that did not sit well with Sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to put words in victims of crime's mouth,

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Speaker 1: but they it didn't sit well with them. But from

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Speaker 1: the other side of that, I mean, is that really

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Speaker 1: a reflection from the Northern Territory Police Commissioner three weeks

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Speaker 1: out from the Northern Territory election that he's concerned that

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Speaker 1: both of our major political parties are basing policies on,

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Speaker 1: you know, on the loudest voices in the community, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily what you know, what others deem evidence based.

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Speaker 2: Is the right thing to do.

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Speaker 4: Look, I really don't know what he meant, and this

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Speaker 4: is all part of that uncertainty, and again begs the

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Speaker 4: question around what government's role in any of this was.

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Speaker 4: I think more uncertainty is not what we need, and

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Speaker 4: that is why the CLP has been very clear around

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Speaker 4: our position to give police better powers. You know, week

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Speaker 4: one of Parliament, if we have the privilege to govern

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Speaker 4: in August, we want to give our police better powers

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Speaker 4: to deal with alcohol, to deal with young people, community safety.

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Speaker 4: It is the number one issue and I think that's

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Speaker 4: why this direction we've seen over the last couple of

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Speaker 4: days is just not the priorities of our community.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask you about the situation in

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Speaker 1: Woodroff because last week we spoke to residents on Emory

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Speaker 1: Avenue in Woodroff who'd been plugged by crime and anti

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Speaker 1: social behavior. Those issues culminated with the car being set alight.

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Speaker 1: The residents of this once very happy, family friendly street

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Speaker 1: are at their wits end.

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Speaker 2: Have you been out there to speak to those residents.

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Speaker 4: I haven't, but I had my team, Clinton Howe, member

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Speaker 4: of the candidate for Dry Hasdal, and Matt Kell, the

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Speaker 4: candidate for blame. We're out there at that community meeting

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Speaker 4: hearing the concerns of people on the ground, and it's

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Speaker 4: fair to say they are absolutely well and truly fed

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Speaker 4: up Katie, and so they should be Their right to

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Speaker 4: be safe and live in peace and quiet has totally

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Speaker 4: been ignored by the Labor government. Again, that just isn't

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Speaker 4: getting on top of issues early on, and they're escalating

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Speaker 4: into horrific scenes where we've got people not sleeping for

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Speaker 4: more than two weeks, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Residents out there, so that the people causing the issues

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Speaker 1: were visitors from other communities. They say that there's JOVI

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Speaker 1: tags around the place. How are you going to stop

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Speaker 1: people from coming in from other communities and breaking the law,

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Speaker 1: Because it's not illegal obviously to travel into Darwin and

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Speaker 1: do the right thing, But if you're coming in here

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Speaker 1: and breaking the law, how are you going to stop that?

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, this is a multi layered approach. So first

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Speaker 4: of all, we need to be upholding standards in territory housing.

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Speaker 4: So we have a streat three strikes through our policy.

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Speaker 4: People have had enough and so we need to be

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Speaker 4: supporting tenants who are often doing the right thing. But

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Speaker 4: the visit it as are doing the wrong thing, and

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Speaker 4: we need to be supporting tenants through strong tenancy management

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Speaker 4: to make sure that people doing the wrong thing are

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Speaker 4: held accountable. There Also, there needs to be consequences by

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Speaker 4: supporting our police to deal with these high levels of crime.

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Speaker 4: We can get more police out on the front line

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Speaker 4: to respond early. We don't want things escalating to the

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Speaker 4: point where there are cars burning in streets.

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Speaker 3: We've got to be tackling these issues quickly.

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Speaker 4: That's why better powers around youths, better powers around public

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Speaker 4: drinking and problem drunks is going to stop crimes from

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Speaker 4: happening later on in the evening. We've got to be

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Speaker 4: dealing with things much earlier through high visible policing and

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Speaker 4: proactive police powers.

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Speaker 1: All a couple of quick ones that I want to

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Speaker 1: get to. On Friday, we learned to potentially decades long

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Speaker 1: departmental bungle around the fine enforcement has left the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government exposed to civil litigation and a possible eye

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Speaker 1: CAC probe.

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Speaker 2: So it was revealed that the.

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Speaker 1: Process used to enforce fines and penalties was not found

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Speaker 1: to comply with legislation. Make of this situation, well, it's

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Speaker 1: just another absolute bungle you know, LAMA have been in

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Speaker 1: power nineteen of the last twenty three years. My understanding

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Speaker 1: is this is a twenty year problem that labor have

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Speaker 1: now uncovered and it just again goes to them being

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Speaker 1: asleep at the wheel, not having control of what's going

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Speaker 1: on across the territory. And it's you guys were in

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Speaker 1: power at one point of that as well. The SELP

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Speaker 1: was empower at one point of that. How did you

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Speaker 1: guys not notice.

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Speaker 4: Well for four out of twenty three years compared to nineteen.

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Speaker 4: I think territories can make their own judgment on that.

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Speaker 4: But ultimately we're not seeing a clear pathway forward from

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Speaker 4: the government out of this mess. It's just more questions

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Speaker 4: and there are answers. Katie and the government again, it's

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Speaker 4: just trying to sweep this under the carpet and hope

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Speaker 4: that it goes away before the election.

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Speaker 1: Well, how can people have confidence that your party won't

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Speaker 1: also balls things like this up.

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Speaker 4: Because we are very, very committed to the future of

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Speaker 4: the territory. Katie my team have the real world and

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Speaker 4: government ex experience to rebuild the territory. We are very

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Speaker 4: focused on taking this seriously. If we get the opportunity

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Speaker 4: to govern because you know, the territory is at a

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Speaker 4: turning point. This really is a juncture where we can

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Speaker 4: have a territory continuing to go backwards, or we can

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Speaker 4: do things differently and drive forward.

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Speaker 3: And be a territory that we can all be proud.

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Speaker 2: You are very quick one.

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Speaker 1: There's been reporting over the weekend that one of the

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Speaker 1: CLP's major donors has been photographed taking pulling other people's

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Speaker 1: signs down around the CBD.

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Speaker 2: What's the go here?

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Speaker 4: My understanding of that, Katie, is that labor did not

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Speaker 4: get the permission of the land owner, and the landowner

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Speaker 4: asked the CLP to remove the labor signs, and.

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Speaker 2: So he had permission to remove those signs.

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Speaker 4: That's correct, and you take them. I have no idea, Katie.

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Speaker 4: So we've heard this right across all of the electorates. Actually,

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Speaker 4: where labor have just put up signs on people's private

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Speaker 4: property and not sought their permission.

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Speaker 2: Is that the.

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Speaker 1: CLP's job though to remove those signs, like I would

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Speaker 1: suggest not.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't know the whole story of that, Katie,

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Speaker 4: but what I do know is that you know, labor

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Speaker 4: are out there just putting up signs on people's property

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Speaker 4: without permission, which is pretty disrespectful and ordinary.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't hurt.

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Speaker 2: Ask paper on next so we'll find out more about that.

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Speaker 1: Leah. We are going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: We've got you back in the study on Friday. From

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Speaker 1: our leaders debates, look for you, see you Friday morning.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Thanks for your time.