1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: Six am. 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 2: You're exhausted, but you are sitting in front of your 3 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: computer for your first Zoom meeting of the day. It 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 2: goes for an hour, and then you have another eleven 5 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: of those scheduled back to back. You are literally on 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: Zoom for twelve hours straight without a break, and that 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: is pretty much the story of your working life for 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 2: the next few weeks. This is what Adore Beauty's co 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: founder Kate Morris went through last year during an investor 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: road show. Not only did she have to keep her 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: online beauty company running amid the chaos of COVID nineteen, 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: she also floated a door on the Australian Stock Exchange 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: for a six hundred million dollar price tag. So how 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: did Kate stay sane during what was a crazy year? 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: How does she juggle parenting two little people with the 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: huge demands of her role, And what is the head 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: of Australia's largest online beauty retailer do for her own 18 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: beauty routine? And why was employing a stylist one of 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: the best decisions that she ever made. My name is 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: of Behavioral Science consultancy Inventium and this is how I 22 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: work a show about how to help you do your 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: best work. So I am very excited about this interview 24 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 2: with Kate because she is exceptionally awesome. And I can 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 2: say that because I've known her for about five years 26 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: and we're part of a business women's peer mentoring group, 27 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: and the seven or eight of us meet up once 28 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: a month to talk business, share business challenges, and help 29 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: each other solve them. And from my experience of Kate, 30 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: not only is she an incredibly savvy business woman, but 31 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: she is also humble, hilarious and always gives me very 32 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: good beauty advice. Now in our business women's group, imposter 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: syndrome is something that rears its head amongst us all, 34 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: and it's definitely something that Kate has experienced. 35 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: I think for. 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 3: Anyone who has a brain and any kind of humility, 37 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: I think impost syndrome like it's not all bad, right, 38 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: you would worry about the people who don't have any 39 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 3: of that. I think leaning into that fear has been 40 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: quite useful for me as a strategy. And I think 41 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: also too, I learned another good strategy from a friend 42 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 3: of ours mutually actually, sayan who decided that she was 43 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 3: going to get over impost syndrome by asking all the 44 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: questions that she needed to ask, And so instead of 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: worrying about looking stupid by asking me a question, she'd think, well, 46 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 3: do you want to look stupid or do you want 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: to be stupid? So you may as well actually ask 48 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: the question. 49 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 4: Yes, I love that I had sigh on the show. 50 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: I don't know a couple of years ago, now, I 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: want to say, And then she talked about that. 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: I love that idea of. 53 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: Not wanting to appeal like the smartest person in the room, 54 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: but wanting to leave the room being the smartest person. 55 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: I think is how she put it. And I know 56 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: for you that voice in your head that I'm sure 57 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: a lot of listeners are familiar with when it comes 58 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: to imposter syndrome, I believe you've given the voice a name. 59 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 60 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 3: Various names, because there's a few different themes that can 61 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: come up right, and I find it's often useful to 62 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 3: name them differently, which makes me sound which makes me 63 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 3: sound a bit cuckoo. Bit no. I think we all 64 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 3: have those voices of negative self talk, and I find 65 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: it useful to sometimes go okay, right, well, is this 66 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: a useful story? Is this a useful thing that I 67 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 3: want to be telling myself? And if not, well, you know, 68 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 3: thanks very much, Kevin. But I'm not really interested in 69 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 3: your feedback today because you're not getting me where I 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: want to go, and I'm not listening to you. And 71 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 3: so I'm sure we've probably can all even pin it 72 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: back to exactly whose voice it is, you know, was 73 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: it your auntie or was it one of your teachers 74 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 3: at school or something like that, So where all of 75 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: these internal naysaying voices come from. Or you're not good enough, 76 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 3: you can't do this, blah blah blah, And it's useful 77 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: for me to just distinguish it as being just blah 78 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 3: blah blah. And I don't want to hear that. Thanks. 79 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: That's right. 80 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: It's just words and they don't have to mean anything 81 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: if you don't want them to. Now, with these names, though, 82 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: are they named after real people that have been in 83 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: your life that you've internalized those voices or are they 84 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: more like these archetypal characters that you named. 85 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 4: I'm kind of I'm looking for examples. 86 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: Obviously, if they're real people, you can give fake names, 87 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 2: but I want to know specifics here. 88 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: One of them is a real person. I think there's 89 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: some journalists that could have names. Usually I just make 90 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: them up. 91 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: I won't ask you to name journalists on the show. Now. 92 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: I know that the last twelve months have been. 93 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 2: Crazy for you for obvious reasons, but also because you thought, 94 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: why not make the year even more challenging and let's 95 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: take a door beauty public And having caught up with 96 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: you through our women's peer mentoring group around once a month, 97 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: I know that it was a full on year. And 98 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 2: something you think about is rather than thinking about managing 99 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 2: your time, you think about managing your energy. Can you 100 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 2: tell me a bit about what that looks like. 101 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was something that so I find actually 102 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 3: usually being busy kind of works for me to drive 103 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 3: my energy. I find my energy will often kind of 104 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: airb a bit. I there's nothing on that's exciting, or 105 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 3: I have things on my to do list, but they're 106 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 3: not things that I'm super excited about doing. Than that, 107 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: I find that kind of an energy suck fun I'm 108 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 3: less productive. Whereas during the IPO, I mean I remember 109 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: looking at the schedule that the bankers had presented to 110 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: us in terms of the timeline and when we were 111 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 3: supposed to be doing all these things, and I just 112 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: looked at it and just went, you know, a mental 113 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 3: just insane. You know, I think there must be a 114 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 3: mistake here because you have me on six back to 115 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 3: back days of twelve hours of zoom calls every day. 116 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: I think you've made a mistake. And they said, no, no, 117 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 3: that's a road show. And I just looked at that 118 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 3: and went okay. And so it wasn't really about managing 119 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: my time during that, because my time was, you know, 120 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: clearly very well managed. I mean we were on this, 121 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 3: you know, every fifty minutes another call started, so my 122 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: time was well and truly managed. But trying to manage 123 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 3: my energy through all of that was really going to 124 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: be the key thing so that I didn't sound like 125 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 3: an absolute robot or just be in the fetal position 126 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 3: under my desk by the end of it. And for me, 127 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 3: the way I managed my energy was to keep going 128 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: back to purpose what was I really trying to achieve here, 129 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 3: And what I'd done was put a little sticky note 130 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: on the bottom of my monitor that I was going 131 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 3: to be staring at for twelve hours a day, and 132 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: the sticky note said, making history, because what we were 133 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: trying to achieve with this IPO was going to be 134 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: the largest ever Australian IPO with a woman founder and 135 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 3: woman CEO, and to me that was something worth it. 136 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: And so I'd take that five minute break that I 137 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 3: had between each call and have another espresso shot and 138 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 3: eat too many jelly babies and then remind myself that 139 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: we were trying to make history here and so that 140 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: I could then start the next call of being asked 141 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: all the same questions and delivering the same presentation and 142 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 3: trying to do every every single one like it was 143 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 3: the first time and like it was fresh. 144 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: What gave you the idea to have that sticky note 145 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: and have that you're kind of guiding light through this? 146 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: That was the exec coach that we use at a 147 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: door actually, so he had suggested that to me because 148 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 3: I had a ranto him going, I don't know how 149 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: I'm going to do this, and we're in lockdown and 150 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 3: so there's certainly no safety valve or you being able 151 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: to go out with some girlfriends and blow off steam afterwards, 152 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 3: and I don't know how I'm going to do it. 153 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: And he said, your purpose will give you energy you 154 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 3: need to keep reminding yourself why are you doing this? 155 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: And it was a useful reminder. 156 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: What other things did the coach share with you? Strategies 157 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: that you did end up applying and that you found 158 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: really useful. 159 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: A lot of it is about his particular style anyway, 160 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: is looking at your own personal values and your personal 161 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: skill set, and where those things interact is your zone 162 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 3: of genius. And so I'm making sure you get to 163 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 3: spend enough time doing those things that both excite you 164 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: and that you're really good at, and that just general 165 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 3: in life is a good place to be and a 166 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 3: good thing to aim for the. 167 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 4: Zone of genius. So how did you figure out? 168 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: And I guess how can listeners figure out what their 169 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 2: strengths are and what their key values are? Was there 170 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: a process that you went through to make that clear? 171 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 3: Yes, he did get me to do. Oh, there was 172 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 3: a bunch of sort of questionnaires. Clifton Strengths was one 173 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 3: of them, and then there was another one that I 174 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 3: forget the name of. And then we also went through 175 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: a process of working out my personal values in terms 176 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: of what are the things that are important to me 177 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: in the way that I want to live my life 178 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 3: At the moment. 179 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: How did that work. 180 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: Was that the coach asking questions of you or was 181 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: there some sort of assessment to get clearer on your values? 182 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: Because I think it's one of those things where everyone 183 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: knows that if you are clearer on your values and 184 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: you live a life according to your values, you. 185 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 4: Will be happier. 186 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: But most people, I think, actually one hundred percent clearer 187 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: on what their values actually are. 188 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: I think it started with a process. It was a 189 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 3: little while back, a whole list of words, like maybe 190 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 3: sixty or one hundred different words, and for you to 191 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 3: go through initially and circle the ones that immediately spoke 192 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 3: to you was things that were meaningful or things that 193 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 3: you wanted in your life, or things that you felt 194 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 3: that you'd used in the past to make decisions that 195 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 3: you were happy with. And so then you'd end up 196 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 3: with a short least and then you'd go through and 197 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: try and rank them in which terms of which ones 198 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 3: you thought were the most important or and some of 199 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: them would end up being grouped together. And then yeah, 200 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 3: slowly go through and refining that until you get three 201 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: or four or five that make the most sense to 202 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: you and that you felt okay, Well, if you were 203 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 3: getting these things out of life, then you would feel 204 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 3: pretty good about that. 205 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: So with your values, can you give me an example of, say, 206 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 2: what one of those values emerged as being and then 207 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: how that translated to essentially improving your workday or managing 208 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 2: your energy better. 209 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: So one of the values for me, and this is 210 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 3: this is a fairly personal question, Amantha, but oh my friends, 211 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 3: so let's go there. You know, one of them for 212 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: me is spark. So for me, I really thrive and 213 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: get a lot of energy from those moments where I 214 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: feel like I'm having a conversation, for instance, with a 215 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 3: mentee and where you identify places where my experience and 216 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 3: skills can add value to that particular person. And so 217 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 3: it's you know, those meetings that you have where you 218 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 3: end up bouncing off of each other and you realize 219 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 3: that one plus one equals seven because of the alignment 220 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: of values or the alignment of goals. Like for me, 221 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 3: I get a buzz out of that, and so I 222 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 3: guess what that's equated to for me is making sure 223 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: that there's enough of those moments in my week that 224 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 3: I can kind of balance that up with the times where, 225 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 3: for instance, I have to sit down and read really 226 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 3: boring commercial contracts, which sometimes is part of my job, 227 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: but I don't get a buzz out of that, And 228 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 3: again it becomes about managing your energy and making sure 229 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 3: that I get enough of those moments. 230 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: It reminds me of a guest that I had on 231 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: quite a while ago, Marcus Buckingham, who's global expert on 232 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: employee engagement, and he talks about research that he did 233 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: that suggested that you only need to be doing stuff 234 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: that you love twenty percent of the time to actually 235 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: be really engaged at work, which surprised me, and I'm wondering, 236 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 2: what do you reckon it is for you on any 237 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: given week, Like that percentage of tasks or meetings or 238 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 2: activities that energize you versus things that are less energizing. 239 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 3: It varies week to week, right, Like don't ask me 240 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 3: on a week where I'm doing investor road shows. But 241 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 3: although actually even mind you some of those, like when 242 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 3: you're talking to people who really get what you're doing 243 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 3: and can actually you know, give you new ideas, then 244 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 3: spark happens there too, Right, So I think twenty percent 245 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 3: is I think if you're getting twenty percent, then yeah, 246 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 3: that's actually that's actually pretty fun. 247 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: When I heard that, I thought twenty percent, that's quite low, 248 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 2: But then in a lot of people's working lives, that's 249 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: probably somewhat realistic. So one of the things that I 250 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: know you did last year when COVID hit is that 251 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 2: you started an e retailer's Slack group. Can you tell 252 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: me about what prompted that group. 253 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, look at the very start of COVID, where every 254 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 3: day we were getting new information and we didn't really 255 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 3: know what was going to happen yet, and what was 256 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 3: it going to mean, and was it going to affect us, 257 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 3: and what was going to happen to the business, and 258 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 3: just this huge environment of uncertainty, And we were at 259 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: the stage in my business where we'd started We've thought, Okay, 260 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: I think this is going to become something that we're 261 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 3: going to need to deal with, and we need to 262 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 3: perhaps build out some scenarios. And you're simultaneously scenario planning 263 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 3: for being really busy or twice as busy as you 264 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 3: thought you were going to be, or having to shut 265 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 3: down your business. There was not a lot of information 266 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 3: coming through about what we needed to be doing to 267 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 3: keep our team safe. There was sort of a little 268 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 3: bit of information about social distancing and hand sanitizer, but 269 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 3: aside from that, very little. And I'd had a couple 270 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 3: of conversations during the week from other online retailers who'd 271 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 3: just been texting me, going, Hey, what are you guys 272 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 3: doing about your warehouse or what are you doing with 273 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: your teams there, or how are you thinking about getting 274 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: things in from China and all of that kind of stuff, 275 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 3: and do you think we should maybe get a few 276 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: of us on a call. And I was walking to 277 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 3: work one day and thought, no, I think we need 278 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: to get all of us on a call and try 279 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 3: and work through this and see if we can share 280 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 3: some knowledge. Because also to a lot of the people 281 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: that I knew that were calling me were people who 282 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 3: were pretty much sole proprietors and had maybe you know, 283 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 3: eight or ten direct reports who were all looking to 284 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 3: them for the answers, and everybody's very frightened and they 285 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 3: were freaking out about what was going to maybe happen. 286 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 3: And so yes, put together this slack community when I 287 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: got to work and took me I don't know, half 288 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 3: an hour to whip that up and sent an email 289 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 3: out to all the people that I know you in 290 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 3: the online retail community, which is actually fairly close knit, 291 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 3: like kind of everybody knows everybody, even though you have 292 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 3: certainly you have very big retailers. You know, you have 293 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 3: Booketopia and Temple and Webster in the Iconic and all 294 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 3: of those. But send an email around and just said, hey, look, 295 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 3: if you want to, I've put this group together just 296 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: so that we can all chat and share resources and 297 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: if anybody has any information perhaps that others don't have, 298 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 3: that we could share that. And we really times like this, 299 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: I think we all just need to band together and yeah, 300 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 3: put that together. And I'd say within a week we 301 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 3: had about one hundred and fifty retailers on there, and 302 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 3: I'm probably three hundred in another week or so, and 303 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 3: it just became this really valuable resource in the very 304 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 3: early and information light days. I mean this is pre 305 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: job keeper or anything like that. And so people would 306 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 3: genuinely frightened that they were going to have to stand 307 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: their stuff down. And you had retailers who were very 308 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 3: busy like a door was, and then you had others, 309 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 3: for instance, in the one selling party addresses, who were 310 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 3: suddenly very quiet and were very concerned about their staff 311 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: and their ability for the business to survive and for 312 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: people's jobs to be able to survive, and so they 313 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 3: were doing things like swapping staff. So people would jump 314 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 3: on and say, hey, look I've got five pick and 315 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 3: packers here in Brisbane. If anyone needs an extra hand 316 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 3: today to get the orders out, they're keen for extra work. 317 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: And so it was really great to be able to 318 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: just share resources and I think help everybody feel like 319 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 3: at least there wasn't some sort of secret font of 320 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 3: information that they were missing out on least, everyone regardless 321 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 3: of the size of their business, felt supported and like 322 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 3: they had access to as much information as there was. 323 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 4: There are a couple of things that I really love 324 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 4: about that. 325 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: Firstly, you make it sound so easy to set up 326 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: this community of three hundred people, and just hearing you 327 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: talk through it, well, you set up a Slack channel 328 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: and you invite people via email, and then presumably you 329 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: moderate the chat a little bit so it feels doable. 330 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: But what I also like is that it's competitors helping 331 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 2: each other, which I feel like it is quite a 332 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: novel concept to a lot of businesses. I remember I 333 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 2: first became aware of this idea of oh goodness, like 334 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: you can help your competitors. When I went on this 335 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: tour of Silicon Valley maybe four or five years ago, 336 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: and what I was finding is that a lot of 337 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: the leaders of the different tech companies would actually have meetups, 338 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: like the heads of engineering would all meet up together, 339 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: and that all be competitors, but that still share different 340 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: strategies and challenges that they were facing and so forth. 341 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 2: So I really love that, Like, how does that dynamic 342 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: play out when you've essentially got three hundred businesses online 343 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: and a lot of them are competing for the same 344 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: consumer dollar. 345 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 3: I think it's really a thing that found its place 346 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 3: in a time of crisis, right where you need to 347 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 3: rights above the fact that everyone's competing for a consumer 348 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 3: dollar and just come back to higher purpose in the 349 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 3: sense that we're all business people and we're all actually 350 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 3: all just people, and everybody needs a bit of support here. 351 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 3: And also there's a lot of jobs at stake, and 352 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 3: we are kind of all in this together, and if 353 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: we all band together at this point, then maybe we 354 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 3: all stay afloat. And I think that's a pretty Australian 355 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: thing to do, is banned together in a time of crisis, 356 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 3: And we saw that happen during the bushfires and things 357 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 3: as well. So it's not like there are competitive issues 358 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 3: that you don't have to consider. I mean, we actually 359 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 3: had a lawyer who found out about the group and said, hey, 360 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 3: it's great that you're doing this, but you probably also 361 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 3: need to be really careful that these sorts of conversations 362 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 3: are not happening between competitors, because then if you're hosting those, 363 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 3: then that would be bad. And I went, right, okay, 364 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 3: well that's something I didn't think of, but yes, okay, okay, 365 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 3: So we just had to make sure that we've dated 366 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: the group rules and say, hey, don't anybody be talking 367 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 3: about what your Google AdWords bids are. 368 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 4: Of course a lawyer, lawyers, lawyers on the parade. 369 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, but look, I think by and large it was 370 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 3: really a very very supportive and can community oriented atmosphere, 371 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 3: particularly the time where information was security, right at least 372 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: if you knew what was happening, you could do something 373 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 3: about it. 374 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 2: How about internally, what sorts of things did you do 375 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 2: practically to keep your team at a door motivated because 376 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: a lot of them, you know, outside of the warehouse stuff, 377 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: were working remotely and. 378 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 3: Look, it was really tough I mean it, certainly it's 379 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 3: tough for me. For everybody, this is really hard, and 380 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 3: particularly for those of us who thrive on those moments 381 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 3: of connection as humans generally do. Then it was even harder. 382 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: I mean in the early days, the crisis management phase, 383 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 3: a lot of it was just around communication and regular 384 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 3: communication and passing on information as soon as we had it, 385 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 3: and also to being very clear about what sources of 386 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 3: information we were going to rely upon and what we weren't. 387 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 3: There was all kinds of rumors and sorts of things 388 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 3: in the early days, and so we set out very 389 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 3: clearly early on that we were going to be listening 390 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: to Work Safe and the Victorian Department of Health, and 391 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 3: those were the directives that we were going to be following. 392 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 3: And whatever the herald sign might have said that day, 393 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 3: that was not one of our information sources. And so 394 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 3: that was just to be really clear about what the 395 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: definitions of actionable actionable information were as people were freaking 396 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 3: out right and then also too so my co founder 397 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 3: James and I would just make regular video updates that 398 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 3: we would share with the team via Slacks or we 399 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 3: use Slack for our internal comms. It at a Dora 400 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 3: as well, and so anytime we had new information that 401 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 3: we needed to act upon or that change the way 402 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 3: that we were doing things, that we would go out 403 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 3: and communicate that to the team in a video. And 404 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 3: the feedback that we had from the team was that 405 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 3: they really liked not just getting the information but also 406 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 3: hearing it from us as if we were there, and 407 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 3: that I think at least that gave them a bit 408 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 3: more of a sense of security that the grown ups 409 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 3: were in charge, even though it did not feel that way. 410 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 3: We didn't always have the answers, but at least we 411 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 3: could come out and say, okay, right, well, this is 412 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: the new information today. I know you've all asked about 413 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 3: X y Z. We still don't know. But the regular 414 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 3: comms was really helpful in terms of keeping people motivated ongoing. 415 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 3: We tried all kinds of things. Something we tried, you know, 416 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 3: our head of recruitment took it upon herself actually to 417 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 3: just post a fun little conversation starter in Slack every day. 418 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 3: What's your favorite Tom Cruise movie or what is the 419 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: album that you loved when you're in year twelve, or 420 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 3: just fun little chit chat every day, which I think 421 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 3: that was one of the things that we really missed 422 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 3: about being in the office. I mean, you can transactionally 423 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 3: complete all of your tasks, but it's not the same 424 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 3: as actually just having incidental chitchat, so tried to put 425 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: that in there. We did a few sort of virtual 426 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 3: events and virtual trivia nights and Zoom drinks on a Friday, 427 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 3: and I think in Melbourne we all just got a 428 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 3: bit exhausted of that. Even by the end of Lockdown 429 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 3: number two. I don't think anyone wanted to see another 430 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 3: social Zoom call, but even sometimes for people who were 431 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,239 Speaker 3: within the five k radius to meet up and do 432 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: socially distanced walks just with another staff member who lived 433 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 3: near you. But it was challenging. It was a difficult time. 434 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 3: I mean, we certainly managed to be productive, but I 435 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 3: think everyone really did use all the energy they had 436 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 3: to get to the end of it. So we actually 437 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 3: had to start incentivizing people to take a couple of 438 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 3: days off because nobody was taking holidays because you can 439 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 3: go anywhere. But of course people were getting really burnt out, 440 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 3: and so we did up these kind of little virtual 441 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 3: holiday packs and you could choose your itinery or you 442 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 3: could pretend to go to Tokyo and they would get 443 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 3: like a sushi making kit to make sushi at home, 444 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 3: or or face mask kit, or you know, just try 445 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: and get people to take a day off. 446 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 4: Hey, there, it's nearly time for a little ad break. 447 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: But can I ask a favor of you? 448 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: If you're enjoying how I work, I would be so 449 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 2: grateful if you could hit pause on this episode and 450 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: pop into Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to this 451 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: from and leave a review. You can do this by 452 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: scrolling to the bottom of the show notes and clicking 453 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: on the stars or writing a comment. And aside from 454 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: the warm, fuzzy feelings that this will give both you 455 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 2: and me, it actually helps other people find out about 456 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 2: how I work. So thank you in advance. Okay, Kate, 457 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: We'll be back after this short break. Now. 458 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: Whenever I see you. 459 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: Kate, and I think I first met you during the 460 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,479 Speaker 2: Telstrap Business Women's Awards. I remember you were sitting on 461 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 2: a panel. I think you had won the Innovation Award. 462 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 3: The year prior. 463 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: Yes when ye, yeah, yes, yes, And then I think 464 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: it was twenty and sixteen that I must have been 465 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: fine and I remember meeting you then And whenever I 466 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 2: see you, which pre COVID was more frequently than now. 467 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: You always look so stylish, like so just gorgeous, well 468 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,239 Speaker 2: put together, and so it really surprised me when I 469 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 2: learned that you actually employed a stylist a few years ago. 470 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: Here I was thinking, it just comes naturally, So can 471 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 2: you tell me why did you make that decision? 472 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: There are realities, I think for women CEOs of women 473 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 3: business leaders, in the sense that people look more at 474 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 3: our clothes than they do it all the men who 475 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 3: are just wearing boring suits and wear the same suits 476 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 3: all the time. And I was very aware of that, 477 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 3: but then also felt like I didn't really know what 478 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 3: I was doing on that front, and so every single 479 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 3: time I had to go to some kind of business event, 480 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 3: I would just basically in the week building up before it, 481 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: just have this massive wardrobe crisis and never feel like 482 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: I had the right thing to wear. And I guess 483 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 3: I would end up going to the event feeling not 484 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 3: like the best version of myself or not how I 485 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 3: wanted to look all the image that I wanted to 486 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 3: be projecting, and I thought, you know, I'm just like, 487 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 3: it's just really exhausting having to think about it all 488 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 3: the time, Can I not delegate this is there must 489 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 3: be someone who knows how to do this, and there was, 490 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 3: and so yes, I enlisted a stylist who came to 491 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 3: my house and went through my entire wardrobe and made 492 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 3: me throw out all the things that were dorky and 493 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 3: made a list of what I needed, and she took 494 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 3: me shopping for three or four hours, which is probably 495 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 3: it's more exhausting than it sounds, actually, and just basically 496 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 3: helped me to put together a wardrobe wear everything matched 497 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: with everything else. And there was formulas that I could 498 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 3: use that understand, okay, well if you're wearing this kind 499 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 3: of pant, you need this kind of shoe, and that 500 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 3: I had all of that stuff ready to go and 501 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 3: it was, oh gosh, it was one of the best 502 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 3: things I ever did, actually, because now I had the 503 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 3: right things to where to whatever the occasion might be. 504 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 3: And I think also too, she acknowledged that it wasn't 505 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 3: just about oh, well, if you're going to a business 506 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 3: event that says business attire, like what was business attire 507 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 3: for me? Because if I was just wearing like a 508 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton kind of pants, would I feel like myself? 509 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: And in the end we decided not, and so I 510 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 3: actually end up wearing jeans to most things. But also 511 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 3: I feel confident doing it, so I think, yes, having 512 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 3: And it's similar to the way I feel about beauty right. 513 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: It's like the whole point of it is not to 514 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 3: look a certain way, but to feel a certain way. 515 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 3: And for me, the stylist was just a path to 516 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 3: making sure that I could feel like the most confident 517 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 3: version of myself whenever I went to these things. 518 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: And I'm imagining it must have had an impact on 519 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 2: just the time that it took to get ready and 520 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: just minimizing decisions. 521 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: Is that fair to say? 522 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely? I felt like I delegated the angst was great, 523 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: someone else had already thought about this, and I'd had 524 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 3: a third party umpire check that my outfits were acceptable, 525 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 3: so it was all good. 526 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: I want to talk about your skin care and beauty 527 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 2: routine and what you're currently doing, because I think about 528 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 2: how you were describing the road show where you're doing 529 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,479 Speaker 2: twelve hours of zoom meetings like exhausted, but you need 530 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: to be looking fresh and feeling confident. Can you take 531 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: me through what does that morning routine look like for you, 532 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 2: particularly when you have not had a big night's sleep 533 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: and maybe not feeling your freshest. 534 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 3: Well. Look, I don't know if your podcast is actually 535 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 3: long enough for all of you, Romanta, but look, I 536 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 3: think as a general rule, for me, skincare is self care, 537 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 3: and so I guess I don't see it as like 538 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 3: an annoying thing that I have to do at the 539 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 3: end of the day. I see it as a way 540 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 3: of preparing and that's my metime and I find it relaxing. 541 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 3: So I enjoy doing it in the morning as a 542 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 3: part of preparing myself mentally for my day. And I 543 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 3: also enjoy taking my makeup off at night, like I 544 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 3: don't be leap my makeup on ever, and I don't 545 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 3: use those face wipes because they're just rubbish. So cleansing 546 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 3: properly is really really important. I'm a big fan of serums, 547 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 3: and usually I would layer probably two or three in 548 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 3: the morning. So the skinceutical Sea for Ulix, this serum 549 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 3: is one of my favorites. It is not cheap, but 550 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 3: it is really really good. So I apologize to anyone 551 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 3: who goes and buys it after hearing this podcast, because 552 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 3: you now have a really expensive habit. I'm very sorry. Yeah, 553 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 3: it's a bit addictive. So yes, I usually layer some 554 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: kind of active serum lots of hydration, so you basically 555 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 3: can't have too much hydration. So hyaluronic acid serum is 556 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 3: really important. And I wear sunscreen every single day, and 557 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: the one that I like at the moment is Ultraviolet 558 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 3: Supreme Screen because it's been all in one, so I 559 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 3: would just pop that on over the top of my serums. 560 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: Is very hydrating, so I don't need to use another 561 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 3: moisturizer as well. But even if I'm sitting zoom all day, 562 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 3: I'm still sitting near a window. And as Australians, the 563 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 3: biggest anti aging thing that we can do for askin 564 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 3: is to protect it from the sun, so that's super 565 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: duper important. But then getting ready for zoom calls. Honestly, 566 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 3: it's like there's nothing concealer can't fix. Concealer and blush 567 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 3: are your two very best friends in terms of looking 568 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 3: like you are awake. 569 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: I love that suncream that you use. I think you 570 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: put me onto it and I use that every day. 571 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: I love it. 572 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so good, so good cleanser. What brand of 573 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: cleanser are you currently using? 574 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 3: I usually have a few cleanses on the go at 575 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 3: any one time. Actually, I like the Asap gentle cleansing gel. 576 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 3: I like the Dermalist lactic acid cleanser, which is a 577 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 3: bit more of an exfoliating ones. We don't necessarily use 578 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 3: that every day. And the Sadashi lavender cleanser, which is 579 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 3: just like a beautiful creamy It's actually got like a 580 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 3: like a mineral clay base to it and it smells 581 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 3: like a day bar. So I use that when I'm 582 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 3: sort of giving myself a facial or something on a 583 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: Sunday because it just smells amazing. It smells like the 584 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 3: day spar at qualia actually, which is heaven. And particularly 585 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 3: during lockdown in Melbourne, that's where I wanted to pretend 586 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 3: that I was. 587 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: And you mentioned a hyaluronic acid serum. Any go to 588 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: brands with that one? 589 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 3: I would usually use either the Skin Suticles hyaluronic acid intensifier, 590 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 3: or there's a PCA skin one. It's a bit spendy, 591 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 3: but it really like makes your skin just look super 592 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 3: plump and bouncy. 593 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 2: And now you mentioned concealer and blush. Where should we 594 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 2: be putting conceala and what's your go to Conceala. 595 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 3: There's a couple that I like, and that's sort of 596 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 3: various levels of intensity depending on how little sleep I 597 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 3: actually have had or how much help I need. There's 598 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 3: a Clarence one. It's like one of those little wind 599 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 3: up clickie pens. That's my basic every day. And then 600 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 3: there's also the Makeup Forever Ultra HD Conceeala, which literally 601 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: that's like the nuclear option that covers everything, but it 602 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 3: doesn't crease, and so for me, I get shocking dark 603 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 3: undry circles, and so I make sure I put it 604 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 3: got my temples on either side of my nose, like 605 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 3: there's that's a lot of people miss that bit. They 606 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 3: put it just under their eyes but not in the 607 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 3: dark part to the sides of your nose. But that 608 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 3: one's great because it doesn't crease and super amazing coverage 609 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 3: and lots of shades. 610 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: Amazing. 611 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: I will be linking to all these in the show notes. 612 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: By the way, and you mentioned blush and you go 613 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: to blushes. 614 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 3: Yes, I really like. There's also Makeup Forever. I like 615 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: a cream blush. I think it looks more natural than 616 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 3: a powder blush. So the Makeup Forever makes a cream 617 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 3: blush it comes in like a little refillable compact thingy, 618 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 3: so you buy the compact and the little refills separately. 619 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 3: And there's two shades that I like. One of them 620 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 3: sort of a like a a brighter poppy coral, and 621 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 3: then there's another one that's kind of more like a 622 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 3: bricky shade. But they're both great, very easy to put on. 623 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 3: I just put them with my fingers. 624 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: Awesome. 625 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 2: And in terms of face masks, I know that you 626 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: are a face mask fan. 627 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: What are your go tos for that? 628 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 3: I quite like a sleep mask because it's easy to 629 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 3: put on at night and then you don't have to 630 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 3: remember to take it off. You can just whack it 631 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 3: on and sleep with it on. So the Aspect Probiotic 632 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 3: mask is only one of my favorite sleep masks that's 633 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 3: really really fab. I also like the Cedarshi brightening marine 634 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 3: mineral mask again also smells like a day spar. I've 635 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 3: been through jars of that stuff because it's just it's 636 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 3: a good all round. It's a bit deep cleansing and 637 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 3: it's a bit moisturizing and brightening and just generally when 638 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 3: you've just got that sort of my face just needs 639 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 3: to look better. I use that one, and then if 640 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 3: I'm being really splurgy, then the SK two sheet masks 641 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 3: are quite delightful, but it's spendy. 642 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you've put me onto the Sadashi face 643 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: mask because I often will ask you annoying questions because 644 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: I know you've got nothing better to do than replied to, hey, Okay, 645 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 2: what mask should. 646 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: I be using? So I do get onto that way? 647 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: Thank you? 648 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know it's what you want to be 649 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 2: doing with your day. I want to talk about managing 650 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 2: work and life because you've got too little people at 651 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: home as well as a husband who is a co founder. 652 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: How do you manage your non work life and just 653 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: all the logistics that one needs to think about when 654 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: when they're a parent but also looking after an absolutely 655 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: huge business. 656 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 3: Look, I think it's actually, in some ways been a 657 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 3: bit helpful that that we work together, because at least 658 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 3: we get to kind of make up the rules for 659 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 3: how we want things to work. So that's been handy. 660 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: And I know it's not always so easy for people 661 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 3: who were in different paid employment with their partner, and 662 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 3: some employers are happier to be flexible than others. But 663 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 3: we've been lucky to be able to make up the rules. 664 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 3: So I mean, for instance, when I came back from 665 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 3: maternity leave, and I had very little maternity leave I 666 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 3: think six weeks with the first and three weeks with 667 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 3: the second, which you know, there's my choice only because 668 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 3: I was climbing the walls and I'm just not the 669 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 3: sort of person that can handle being at home with 670 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 3: a baby all day long. That's just that's not for me. 671 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 3: And so pretty much ever since then, we've always just 672 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 3: done things fifty to fifty. And so the thing that 673 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 3: really throws a family routine off is if the kids 674 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 3: get sick, and particularly now, you can't send them to 675 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 3: jog here with a running nose in the way that 676 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 3: I'm sure all parents have done in the past, not anymore. 677 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 3: So with that, we'll just basically each look at our 678 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 3: day and try and go, okay, right, well, I can 679 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 3: have her in the morning, if you can have her 680 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: in the afternoon, and we just split it up that way. 681 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 3: We do. We have a lot of things outsourced in 682 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 3: our house. I'm very open about the fact that we 683 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 3: have a lot of help. I'm not superwoman by any 684 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: stretch of the imagination. 685 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: So what do you outsource? 686 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 2: Because I think this is great to know because from 687 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 2: an external point of view, it's so easy for female 688 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 2: leaders like yourself to look like superhuman. 689 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 4: But where are you getting help? 690 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 3: No? No, we're not no. And I think that's really 691 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 3: important because I think a lot of women sort of 692 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 3: judge themselves and go, well, I don't know how she's 693 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: doing it because I can't do it, and you can't 694 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 3: possibly do it, or you can't I mean just the 695 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 3: laundry alone. It's one of the most horrific realizations of 696 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 3: parenthood for me is to say, how much laundry there is? 697 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 3: So look, so we haven't nanny three days a week, 698 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 3: which you know is an extraordinarily is an extraordinary privilege, 699 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 3: but that's one of the key reasons that our house 700 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 3: is functioning. So she will, you know, do laundry and 701 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 3: school pickups and bits of grocery shopping and things during 702 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 3: the week when we've run out of milk and I 703 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 3: haven't had time to go and get any and she's 704 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 3: just absolutely amazing. She's like a superhero. So that's great. 705 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 3: And she willn't even do doing things like taking the 706 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 3: youngest to swimming lessons and that sort of stuff, because 707 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 3: I think it's you know, you want to do all 708 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 3: these things for your kids, but then also you can 709 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 3: turn your weekends into these sort of terrible nightmares and 710 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 3: running around from one task to the next. So we're 711 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 3: lucky on that front, cleaning, gardening, what else. James does 712 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 3: all the cooking, So that's lucky for me. Yeah, for 713 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 3: any working parent, and particularly for mums that don't have 714 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 3: a lot of support from their partners, I think it's 715 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 3: just it is extraordinarily difficult. And I think when we 716 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 3: start asking why is there still a pay gap and 717 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 3: why aren't women's careers progressing? I mean, oftentimes that's a 718 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 3: big part of why is that just carrying the entire 719 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 3: load of parenting and then also trying to successfully execute 720 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 3: a career that's not possible. There's not enough hours in 721 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 3: the day for that. 722 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 2: What's your decision making process on what to outsource and 723 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 2: what to do yourself? 724 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 3: I think for me, it's about trying to value my 725 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 3: time as a resource to both my business and to 726 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 3: my family and going okay, is it the way that 727 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 3: I want to spend my time. Is this a valuable 728 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 3: use of my time for me? For me to be 729 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 3: clean the house or whatever, it is is that or 730 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 3: given the amount of time that I have for my family, 731 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 3: would I rather spend that time engaging with the kids 732 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 3: or getting some exercise done or that kind of thing. 733 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 3: And I get it, it's not a choice everybody has 734 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 3: the option to make. But for me, it's how do 735 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 3: I want to be spending my time? What are the 736 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 3: tasks that I can add value to, such as playing 737 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 3: with the kids, and what are the tasks that it 738 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 3: doesn't add any value to that task for me to 739 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 3: be doing it. So, for instance, like I used to 740 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 3: have this whole thing about like I really wanted to 741 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 3: bake all the kid's birthday cakes myself, and I had 742 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 3: this whole idea that I was only being a proper 743 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 3: mom if I baked all the birthday cakes myself. And 744 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 3: it just got to a point one year where I 745 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 3: was just like there was just too much on and 746 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,760 Speaker 3: I said to my daughter, I said, look, I'm really sorry, 747 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 3: I just I'm not going to get time to make 748 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 3: your cake this year. But if you like, here's a 749 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 3: website where we can ad some off and you can 750 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 3: pick which one you want. And she's like sweet, okay, 751 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 3: and picked one that was like a unicorn that I 752 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 3: could never have made and I said, I said, I said, honey, 753 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. Is it okay that I didn't make 754 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 3: your cake for you? And she just looked at me, 755 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 3: like with this kind of dull look on my face, 756 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 3: and she's like, I don't care. 757 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: So I get a unicorn cake. 758 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 3: I get a unicorn cake. You would never have made 759 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,240 Speaker 3: me a unicorn cake. And I thought, no, that's true. 760 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 3: Better mothers might have perhaps, But. 761 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 4: I look, I think it's so useful for listeners to 762 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 4: think about. 763 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 2: I think I personally believe that there's always ways to 764 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 2: think about spending your time more wisely and using money 765 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 2: so that you can do that. And an example that 766 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 2: I've given maybe a couple of times on the podcast 767 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 2: is pre covid. I found that every weekend, my daughter 768 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 2: and I would have a ritual where we'd go to 769 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 2: the markets, we'd get all our fruit and vegs for 770 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 2: the week, and then I would proceed to spend like 771 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 2: a good two hours doing food prep where I'd be 772 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 2: stuck behind the kitchen bench doing the mind and I'm 773 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 2: being task of cutting things. And so I thought, maybe 774 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 2: that's something I could outsource. So I ended up finding 775 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 2: someone on air tasker and paid her fifty dollars to 776 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 2: basically do all the food prep for the whole week, 777 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 2: and fifty dollars like that's a dinner out or maybe 778 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 2: an Uber eats in, And that just brought me so 779 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 2: much more joy and brought me two hours of quality 780 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 2: time with my daughter Frankie that I wouldn't have otherwise got. 781 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 2: So I feel that there are like levels of outsourcing, 782 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 2: but I feel like even a little bit of outsourcing 783 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 2: is possible. 784 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 4: For almost everybody listening. 785 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: I would imagine, and. 786 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 3: I think equally you might have people who would go, actually, 787 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 3: I really enjoy that food prep time because I'm going 788 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 3: to stand up my daughter and I are going to 789 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 3: do it together and we're going to have this little 790 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 3: cooking session and I'd rather just have my Uber eats 791 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 3: during the week because that's something I really want to 792 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 3: do it. It's just like, Okay, well, everybody's different in 793 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 3: terms of where that exchange of time and money comes in, 794 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 3: and you've just got to decide, like for me and 795 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 3: for my family, what's the decision that works? 796 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And my final question for you, Kate, is for 797 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 2: people that want to connect with you and adore in 798 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 2: some way, shape or form. 799 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: What is the best way. 800 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 3: To do that? Sure, you can find me on Instagram, 801 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 3: So I'm Kate Adore Beauty on Instagram, or I'm Morris 802 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 3: Underscore Kate on Twitter. Or you can come and find 803 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 3: me on. 804 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 2: LinkedIn Fantastic or go to Adore Beauty dot a Door 805 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 2: Beauty on all of the channels. 806 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent. 807 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 2: I linked to all that in the show notes, Kate, 808 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 2: it has been so fun chatting with you and learning 809 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 2: all about how you work. I've learned so many new 810 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 2: things about you despite having known you for quite a while, 811 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing. 812 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: It's been awesome. 813 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 3: Oh my pleasure. 814 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 4: Hello there. 815 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 2: That is it for today's show next Thursday, on How 816 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 2: I Work. I am looking at imposter syndrome and I've 817 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 2: gathered a few clips from interviews I've done over the 818 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 2: last few years about people talking about their experience with 819 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 2: imposter syndrome and how they manage it and even how 820 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 2: they use it to their advantage. So if you have 821 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 2: been known to suffer from imposter syndrome, you might want 822 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 2: to hit subscribe or follow with wherever you're listening to 823 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 2: this podcast so that you will be alerted when that 824 00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 2: new episode drops. How I Work is produced by Inventium 825 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 2: with production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for 826 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 2: this episode was the amazing Jenna Coda, and thank you 827 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 2: to my dad Martin Nimba who did the audio mix 828 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 2: and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise. 829 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,919 Speaker 2: That is it for today and I will see you 830 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 2: next time.