1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,519
Speaker 1: Avoidance actually blocks out something that we need to move towards.

2
00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,720
Speaker 1: The more we can move towards those memories, the more

3
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:11,360
Speaker 1: we can process them, we can make meaning from them.

4
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

5
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,159
Speaker 3: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

6
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,160
Speaker 3: wants answers.

7
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:18,439
Speaker 4: Now.

8
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,439
Speaker 1: I'm doctor Justin Coulson, the author of six books about

9
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,240
Speaker 1: raising happy families, and I'm here with my wife co

10
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,680
Speaker 1: hosts missus Happy Families, Kylie.

11
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,880
Speaker 3: So the other morning I had this interesting experience, i'll say,

12
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 3: with the kids. One of our daughters came out of

13
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:41,360
Speaker 3: her bedroom and she was sobbing, hysterically sobbing. I had

14
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,479
Speaker 3: no idea what was going on. But once I realized,

15
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 3: I had to get a little bit of footage and

16
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,200
Speaker 3: I have as sup permission and I'm going to share

17
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,480
Speaker 3: it with you because it was hilarious.

18
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 2: I was, well, mixt just died. It's like the best

19
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,240
Speaker 2: character in the book.

20
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's so good. So there's a character

21
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,040
Speaker 1: in a book has died and she's lost the plot.

22
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,759
Speaker 3: She has devastated.

23
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 1: She loves to read, she loves her. But this is

24
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 1: a fictional book, right, this is not the real deal.

25
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,280
Speaker 3: No, it's not, and it went on. I think we

26
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 3: kind of had about twenty five minutes because she would

27
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,040
Speaker 3: she would calm down.

28
00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,959
Speaker 2: So this was my morning bike ride morning. I missed

29
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 2: all the action.

30
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 3: You missed it all. She would calm down and then

31
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,400
Speaker 3: something would trigger, someone would say something and she would

32
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,520
Speaker 3: just just gush.

33
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 2: Did you give her a big hud?

34
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,040
Speaker 3: I did give her a big hug. Okay, But there

35
00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 3: was definitely some laughter in there as well. And the

36
00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 3: funny thing is even she she recognizes how how funny

37
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 3: it is, and so she would start laughing because she

38
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 3: would make herself, you know, kind of realize that this

39
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,120
Speaker 3: was this was actually a bit a bit crazy that

40
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 3: she was so hysterical, but her laughter would actually lead

41
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 3: that into another beud of tears. She kind of started saying,

42
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 3: but it's not funny.

43
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 2: I love the recording.

44
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,960
Speaker 1: But this leads to something that happened just in the

45
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,559
Speaker 1: last couple of days with one of our other kids,

46
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 1: our little one. During the last holidays, we went to

47
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,519
Speaker 1: Australia Zoo, which is the you the home of Steve

48
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 1: Erwin Bindi and Terry and Robert and all the crocodiles

49
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,520
Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing and.

50
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,519
Speaker 3: Such a great sue. We've had so much fun going there.

51
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:24,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely great zoo.

52
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,359
Speaker 1: And you bought the Terry Erwin memoir where she talks

53
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,079
Speaker 1: about her life with Steve.

54
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 3: Can't it's such an incredible story. Like just he's so iconic.

55
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,519
Speaker 3: We've seen the videos. We know how adventurous and crazy

56
00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 3: and passionate he was. But reading the story from Terry's

57
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 3: point of view that there's no there's just there's no

58
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 3: there's no glory in it. There's just this is life.

59
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 3: This is exactly what it was like.

60
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,079
Speaker 1: But it sounds I mean, I can't wait to read it.

61
00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 1: Everything you've told me, I feel like I've read the

62
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 1: book already. But he just like he's just such a

63
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 1: dead set, faired income character and a ball agate a

64
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 1: million miles an hour and let's get up in the

65
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,480
Speaker 1: middle of and go catch crocs and we'll just walk

66
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:10,120
Speaker 1: into the water.

67
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 2: And you know, like it sounds like it's incredible.

68
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 1: But you had this experience just after you know, the

69
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,720
Speaker 1: tears of the fictional person dying. You've had this experience

70
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,640
Speaker 1: where you were having morning huggies with Emily, our six

71
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 1: year old, and she said, read to me, what are

72
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,679
Speaker 1: you reading? So you started to read to her about

73
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 1: Steve Irwin.

74
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love I love that. You know, she's still

75
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,640
Speaker 3: in this space where she just wants to kind of

76
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 3: be close, and it doesn't happen very often, but every

77
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 3: now and again she'll kind of just say, can you

78
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,280
Speaker 3: read out loud whatever you're reading? And you know, it

79
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 3: could be Brene Brown or a novel that I'm reading,

80
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,960
Speaker 3: but she just she really wants to hear my voice,

81
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,040
Speaker 3: I guess, and.

82
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 2: Be engaged, unlike our big kids.

83
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 1: Unlike our big kids who don't want to hear anyone's voice.

84
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 3: And so I started reading to her, and she she's

85
00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 3: actually the reason we went to the zoo and the

86
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 3: first place. She really you know, loves animals and was

87
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 3: desperate to get to the zoo, and so she was

88
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 3: very much aware that this book was about Steve. And

89
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 3: so I read to her about Steve and Terry's honeymoon,

90
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,240
Speaker 3: which was supposed to be in the beautiful, you know,

91
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 3: kind of western beaches of America, and she ends up

92
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 3: saying yes to a crocodile hunt instead, and so I

93
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:23,479
Speaker 3: was reading this experience.

94
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 2: So she gives up the honeymoon so that she can

95
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 2: go hunt crocs with Steve.

96
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 1: She gave up the honeymoon and he said, no, honeymoon,

97
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 1: let's go get let's go catch a croc.

98
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right.

99
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,159
Speaker 3: And what was so amazing and this whole experience is

100
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,240
Speaker 3: she's other than being at the zoo once where she

101
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 3: was in an enclosure with a crocodile and fed it

102
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,880
Speaker 3: some meat. She actually has had no contact at this

103
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 3: point with a crocodile. And they catch a crocodile that

104
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 3: they needed to relocate, and.

105
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:50,800
Speaker 2: So you read all this to Emily. I read all

106
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 2: of this.

107
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,280
Speaker 3: To Emily, and in the process of catching it, they

108
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,000
Speaker 3: had to take it out of the trap, the netting

109
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 3: trap that they've trapped it in to kind of keep

110
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 3: it safe, get all of the netting that he's tangled

111
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 3: up in off him. And in order to do that

112
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,840
Speaker 3: you've seen the videos, they literally on top of it.

113
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,320
Speaker 2: They jump on to the massive crop.

114
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 3: So she's getting hands on training, like on the spot

115
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,720
Speaker 3: on her honeymoon, on her honeymoon, and he says, all right,

116
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 3: when I say you are going to jump on this

117
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 3: crocodile's head, right.

118
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 2: Jump on the crocodile's head. He's holding the body. Obviously,

119
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:26,919
Speaker 2: no No, he wasn't. Somebody else was.

120
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,839
Speaker 3: He's actually getting rid of all of the netting, like

121
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 3: you know, lifting up its foot and pulling the netting

122
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,919
Speaker 3: off the foot and then you know, moving down the

123
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 3: tip like it.

124
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 2: Was just awesome. Sorry, So you've read that to Emily.

125
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 3: I've read that to Emily and she's so enthralled. She just,

126
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 3: you know, like this is so exciting. And then that

127
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 3: led to mummy, can I watch some videos? And so,

128
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 3: you know, it's early morning and everybody's still asleep, and

129
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 3: I thought, yeah, we can spend a few minutes kind

130
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 3: of watching. So I looked up on YouTube to see

131
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,400
Speaker 3: if I could find some things, and there was lots

132
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,760
Speaker 3: of you know, big kind of documentary style, one hour videos,

133
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 3: so I was looking for something nice and small, and

134
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 3: so I found a little five minute YouTube and I thought,

135
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,119
Speaker 3: let's have a look at this. And what I didn't

136
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,200
Speaker 3: realize at that point was that it was actually kind

137
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,239
Speaker 3: of had been created as a bit of a tribute

138
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 3: to step So it was like.

139
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 2: A montage of his life, it was, and it was.

140
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,839
Speaker 3: So beautifully done. It was so beautifully done. But obviously

141
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 3: at the end they touched on the fact that now

142
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 3: Steve's gone. And Emily was aware that Steve had died,

143
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 3: and we had that conversation with her previously, but in

144
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 3: that moment it just hit her and her heart, I'm

145
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,560
Speaker 3: going to cry. Her heart was so crushed to think

146
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 3: that this good person she sees, Steve Irwin, is such

147
00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 3: a good man. He was fighting for the rights of

148
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 3: you know, and the safety and the well being of

149
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,159
Speaker 3: animals all around the world. And her heart just broke

150
00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 3: in that moment that he was gone, and she sobbed

151
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 3: like she sobbed, and she just said to me, Mummy,

152
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 3: why why did Steve have to die? He was such

153
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 3: a good man. Why did he get in the water

154
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,440
Speaker 3: with those stingrays? Didn't he know they were dangerous? Why

155
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 3: didn't the doctors fix his heart? Couldn't they have given

156
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 3: him a new heart? How does that stinger? I think

157
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,719
Speaker 3: it would be if somebody came and stabbed him in

158
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,240
Speaker 3: the heart. The questions just kept rolling, and so as

159
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 3: the morning progressed, she would just have about after a

160
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 3: bout of just anguish as she kind of relived this space,

161
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 3: and so the morning kind of turned into a bit

162
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 3: of a Stevo and tribute and Lily started looking up

163
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 3: other youtubes, and she found when Robert went over to

164
00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,400
Speaker 3: the Jimmy Fallon Show and they had this really cool

165
00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 3: experience as he introduced Jimmy to a whole heap of

166
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,560
Speaker 3: scary animals, and you know, that kind of got her

167
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 3: laughing a bit. And then she found True Blue sung

168
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 3: by John Williamson in the Crocoseum on the day of

169
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 3: their memorial memorial, and that got me going.

170
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 2: I was gone, but as we.

171
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 3: Kind of, you know, as the morning weaved on, we

172
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,320
Speaker 3: got on our bikes to ride to school, and all

173
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,520
Speaker 3: of a sudden, it just hit her again and she

174
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,160
Speaker 3: literally rode and saw.

175
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 2: The whole lost kid.

176
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 3: She just couldn't understand, and that actually led to you know,

177
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 3: he died just like my grandma, Nana Bunt, and she

178
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 3: wanted to, you know, understand. Nana didn't even get to

179
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 3: hold me for very long because Nana died pretty soon

180
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,200
Speaker 3: after she was born. She kind of hung around just

181
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,600
Speaker 3: for Emily and just you know, so many questions and

182
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,040
Speaker 3: not good answers. I didn't have anything great to tell her.

183
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,679
Speaker 3: There was nothing that was going to fix her pain,

184
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 3: and so I guess, how do we deal with this

185
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,319
Speaker 3: with our kids? Because from time to time there are

186
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,800
Speaker 3: going to be experiences in their life where they lose

187
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,400
Speaker 3: someone or something that means so much to them. How

188
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,479
Speaker 3: do we help them through that anguish?

189
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,839
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that next. It's the Happy Families podcast.

190
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,800
Speaker 4: US Screens Creating Tension at Home, Tweens, Teens and Screens

191
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,720
Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen

192
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,320
Speaker 4: solutions by today at happy families dot com dot au

193
00:08:58,760 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 4: slash shop.

194
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Family's podcast where talking about grief. We've

195
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 1: had a couple of incidents where our children have grieved,

196
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,000
Speaker 1: one of them grieving over a fictional character and a

197
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 1: book that died unexpectedly that she really didn't want to lose,

198
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,000
Speaker 1: and another one grieving the loss of Steve Irwin, the

199
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 1: Crocodile Hunter, And that lead into conversation and questions around

200
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,200
Speaker 1: the loss of her great grandma and some of the

201
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 1: sadness and loss around that. So, how are you supposed

202
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 1: to talk to kids about grief? Where are you supposed

203
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: to go and what context? Like how much are you

204
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 1: supposed to tell them? I reckon there's a handful of

205
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,960
Speaker 1: tips that I can share. I wish I'd been around too.

206
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 3: It would have been great if you were.

207
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my morning bike ride. It sounds like

208
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,040
Speaker 1: I go for bike rides every morning or something. I

209
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,800
Speaker 1: promise I am around to help with the kids. I

210
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,679
Speaker 1: was actually there when she was upset, but we had

211
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,520
Speaker 1: a kind of a complicated morning that morning.

212
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,960
Speaker 2: I reckon The first thing is you need.

213
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,080
Speaker 1: To be simple and clear and direct in your conversation

214
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,880
Speaker 1: with your kids. I think that the best way to

215
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 1: deliver any kind of bad news is to just say it,

216
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,559
Speaker 1: say it gently, say it kindly, but just to say it.

217
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,680
Speaker 1: We need to keep it together ourselves. And then I

218
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,200
Speaker 1: think that we want to have one of those I

219
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,080
Speaker 1: call it the lion King moment. You know they been ya,

220
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,200
Speaker 1: you know, the liking when we help kids to understand

221
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,720
Speaker 1: the whole circle of life thing that everyone and everything

222
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 1: gets old and eventually dies. What happens is they start

223
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 1: to see death as normal and natural.

224
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,960
Speaker 3: I think the tricky thing for Emily in this situation,

225
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:30,679
Speaker 3: as Steve.

226
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,839
Speaker 2: Wasn't old no, you're right, and this was.

227
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 3: Such an unknown this was such a surprise to everybody involved.

228
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so in that situation, I think that the

229
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,080
Speaker 1: best thing that you can actually do is well Sometimes

230
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,439
Speaker 1: we get really caught up in giving kids information, and

231
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,119
Speaker 1: in fact, even as I'm starting to give this information

232
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,280
Speaker 1: to you, I'm caught up in how do we convey

233
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,079
Speaker 1: the content? How do we help our children to understand

234
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,439
Speaker 1: what happened and why? But sometimes that's not the best

235
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 1: thing to do. Sometimes we just need to provide the

236
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 1: emotional support that they need and let them work through

237
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,320
Speaker 1: it themselves. And it might take them a minute or

238
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,440
Speaker 1: ten minutes, or an hour or a day or a

239
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,080
Speaker 1: week or a month. Sometimes we just need to be

240
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,439
Speaker 1: there for them, so we give them a great big

241
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: hug and we say things like you're so sad, this

242
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 1: is the saddest news ever, and we just hold them

243
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,160
Speaker 1: and let them cry. I think that it's also great

244
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 1: to memorialize, and so well, let's go and learn everything

245
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 1: we can. When we grieve, sometimes we try to avoid

246
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,360
Speaker 1: anything that could increase that sense of grief, that sense

247
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,920
Speaker 1: of loss, that sense of connection. We actually want to

248
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: sever the connection when we're grieving sometimes because the connection

249
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 1: is what hurts so much. And by severing the connection,

250
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,959
Speaker 1: we just get to say, Okay, well I loved that person,

251
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 1: but now they're gone and I'm just going to move

252
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,240
Speaker 1: on with my life. But my sense is that avoidance

253
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,079
Speaker 1: just reinforces.

254
00:11:58,840 --> 00:11:59,720
Speaker 3: The gaping hole.

255
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Well, in anxiety research, we know that avoidance

256
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 1: actually reinforces anxiety. So if you're anxious about something and

257
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 1: you avoid it, that avoidance just reinforces the anxiety. But

258
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:19,000
Speaker 1: in grief, avoidance doesn't help either. Avoidance actually blocks out

259
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: something that we need.

260
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 2: To move towards.

261
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 1: The more we can move towards those memories, the more

262
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,880
Speaker 1: we can process them, we can make.

263
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 2: Meaning from them.

264
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:28,920
Speaker 1: And I think what's really going on here is we've

265
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,320
Speaker 1: got a little girl who wants to make meaning. So

266
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,800
Speaker 1: from my perspective, I think that bringing her in, bringing

267
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,319
Speaker 1: her close, showing her more videos, helping her to celebrate

268
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,319
Speaker 1: the extraordinary life of stever in this case, and probably

269
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 1: showing her some more pictures of her great grandma, and

270
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,079
Speaker 1: talking about the wonderful lady that our Nan was. I

271
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 1: think that those are the kinds of things that are

272
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 1: going to be much more useful, much more helpful in

273
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 1: helping them to.

274
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 2: Process that grief.

275
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,000
Speaker 1: A lot of people have cultural or religious beliefs that

276
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,840
Speaker 1: can provide them with support during times like this, and

277
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,560
Speaker 1: I think that during grief, one of the most powerful

278
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 1: things we can do is lean on those cultural or

279
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:15,560
Speaker 1: faith oriented beliefs and values and helped them to guide

280
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 1: us through those those difficult times. There's so much research

281
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,600
Speaker 1: that shows that this is remarkable and powerful. So what'd

282
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:22,880
Speaker 1: you do?

283
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 3: Well? We definitely had lots of cuddles and we had

284
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 3: a little cry together. And one of the videos that

285
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 3: we had watched had Steve telling his story. He was

286
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 3: in a darkened room and he was just the spotlight

287
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 3: on him and he talked about his vision and how

288
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 3: he had caught his parents' energy and drive for animal

289
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 3: conservation as a young kid, and he had been the

290
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 3: warrior and taken you know, kind of the baden off

291
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,199
Speaker 3: dad and carried that flag throughout his life and that

292
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,320
Speaker 3: his greatest hope was that.

293
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 2: He would be.

294
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,680
Speaker 3: Able to hand the batton on to his kids and

295
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,840
Speaker 3: he would know that his life had meant something if

296
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 3: his kids would be able to do that and continue

297
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 3: his work. And that was such a beautiful tribute to

298
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 3: who he was and the life that he led, because

299
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 3: as we've seen with Bindi and Robert, that's exactly what

300
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 3: they have done. That he has left this legacy that

301
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,000
Speaker 3: has you know, formed and molded them into these amazing

302
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 3: conservation warriors and they do so they do him proud.

303
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 3: And so as we talked about that, you know, one

304
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,160
Speaker 3: of the things that I've loved about Emily is she

305
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 3: has such a desire to make sure that animals are safe.

306
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 3: And one of the things lately is she wants to

307
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,320
Speaker 3: pick up all the rubbish wherever we go. She wants

308
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 3: to pick up rubbish because she doesn't want the animals

309
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 3: to be hurt. And so we talked about how Steve's

310
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 3: legacy lives in all of us as we do the

311
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 3: things that he was so passionate about and strives so

312
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:00,560
Speaker 3: hard to educ hate us in.

313
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,800
Speaker 1: And whether it's Steve Ewin or a relative, someone that

314
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 1: your child loves and knows that meaning making in that

315
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 1: legacy is just critical. I think the last thing that

316
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: I'd add is just that more than anything, our children

317
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,640
Speaker 1: need to know that we're there for them. They need

318
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,920
Speaker 1: to feel safe to cry or hit a pillow or

319
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 1: talk without any judgment. They actually need to be allowed

320
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 1: to be happy too, and to move on with their lives. Well,

321
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 1: that was a great conversation. I'm really glad that we

322
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,560
Speaker 1: had it. It's probably something that we don't talk about

323
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 1: nearly enough.

324
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy the podcast. I hope that you've

325
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 2: got something out of this.

326
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 1: If you did, please visit Apple Podcasts and leave us

327
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,160
Speaker 1: a rating and a review. It's the reviews that help

328
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 1: people to find the podcast and have happier families, like

329
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 1: this five star review that came through from Starr E

330
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 1: three two one, who.

331
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 3: Said, I've always enjoyed listening to Doctor Colson, but this

332
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 3: podcast has become my daily go to with Kylie on board.

333
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 3: Thank you both for your genuine and practical advice and

334
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,800
Speaker 3: being your authentic selves. Every parent and expecting parents should

335
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 3: listen to your podcast like that.

336
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 2: Thank you so very much for the rating and review.

337
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 1: Like I said, Apple Podcasts, the feedback helps other people

338
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 1: find the podcast. We really appreciate the work of Justin Rulan,

339
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: who produces the podcast, and our executive.

340
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 2: Producer is Craig Bruce.

341
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 1: If you'd like more information about how to make your

342
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 1: family happy or get through some tough spots, please have

343
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: a look at our Happy Families memberships. They are available

344
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au and for the

345
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 1: price of a cuppa once a week, you can make

346
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 1: your family.

347
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 2: Happier family is getting bigger and bigger every day.

348
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 1: You can also find more information at doctor Justin Colson's

349
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: Happy Families on Facebook