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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers Now.

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Speaker 2: Parenting has never been more intense, and parents are kind

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Speaker 2: of cracking up. We don't have time to do it all.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Gooday.

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Speaker 4: This is doctor Justin Colson and the author of six

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Speaker 4: books about raising happy families. That I'm here with my

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Speaker 4: podcast partner and my life partner. This is Happy Families. Kylie,

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Speaker 4: mum to our six daughters.

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Speaker 5: Today we're going to be talking with doctor Susie O'Brien,

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Speaker 5: who is an author and a journalist, and we'd love

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Speaker 5: for you Susie to tell us about his off bet.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I've been writing on parenting and social issues for

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Speaker 2: news Corp newspapers for the last twenty years, which makes

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Speaker 2: me feel old. And about twenty five years ago I

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Speaker 2: did a PhD at the University of Queensland and I

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Speaker 2: look back at the title of my thesis that was

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Speaker 2: something to do with post structuralist food coding and analysis

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Speaker 2: of power, which I think is probably good that I

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Speaker 2: leave that worll behind me centrate on nice, positive, simple

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Speaker 2: messages about parenting.

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Speaker 4: So you and I, Susie, have had many conversations over

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Speaker 4: the years as you've been looking for content and expert

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Speaker 4: ideas and opinions for your newspaper articles. But I just

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Speaker 4: can you tell me again what was the name of

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Speaker 4: that PhD thesis of yours?

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Speaker 2: I love it. It was a post structuralist analysis of

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Speaker 2: food code and models of power in the universe.

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Speaker 4: Such a show off. Now, just to show off how

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Speaker 4: far you've come since you've become a journalist. What's the

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Speaker 4: title of the new book that you've written that we're

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Speaker 4: going to talk about today.

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Speaker 2: I've written a book called The Secret of Half Past Parenting,

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Speaker 2: Raising kids with half the guilt and twice the joy.

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Speaker 4: That sounds like a really big leap from where you

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Speaker 4: were in your PhD days.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I did a PhD, and I

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Speaker 2: always thought I was going to become an academic, but

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Speaker 2: what I really wanted to do was be a journalist.

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Speaker 2: And so, at age twenty eight, armed with a PhD,

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Speaker 2: I applied for the Adelaide Advertiser as a cadesh and

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Speaker 2: I think they took me on because they felt sorry

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Speaker 2: for me, Like, who is this woman and what does

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Speaker 2: she want? And I've never looked back. I've had the

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Speaker 2: most wonderful twenty years working in newspapers, and the first

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Speaker 2: paper that ever took me on started publishing my work

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Speaker 2: was The Courier Mail in Brisbane. So I'm a very

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Speaker 2: proud expat Queenslander.

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Speaker 5: That's awesome, Susie. Can you tell us how many kids

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Speaker 5: do you have?

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Speaker 2: So? I have three, So my youngest is I have

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Speaker 2: to think about that, eleven, and my oldest is seventeen.

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Speaker 2: And my partner has two kids aged eight and eleven,

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Speaker 2: so between us we've got five. We're a bit like

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Speaker 2: the Brady Bunch, but with no Alice to kind of

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Speaker 2: make the dinner and clean the house.

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Speaker 4: You're right in the thick of it now. Your book

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Speaker 4: is basically a manifesto that I think can probably be

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Speaker 4: summed up by this line from chapter one act before.

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Speaker 4: I mentioned the line to set up this line. In

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Speaker 4: chapter one, you talk about all the stress and the

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Speaker 4: endless push for being more hands on as parents that

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Speaker 4: mums and dads are experiencing today, and the sacrifices that

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Speaker 4: parents make for their children, and the endless need to

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Speaker 4: do more and do more and do more. And then

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Speaker 4: you say this and I'm quoting doing less parenting doesn't

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Speaker 4: seem to occur to anyone.

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Speaker 2: And it's really true. It took me ages to work

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Speaker 2: out what was going wrong with our parenting lives because

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Speaker 2: parents today say they find it hard to find time

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Speaker 2: to do everything. Half the time, they don't even have

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Speaker 2: time to have a bubble bath once a week. And

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Speaker 2: so these days, often in families we've got mum and

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Speaker 2: dad both working full time or working a lot. We

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Speaker 2: put our hands up to be very hands on it

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Speaker 2: the kinder and the school and the footy club. We

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Speaker 2: think we have to do everything asked of us, and

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Speaker 2: we find that when the intensification of parenting means that

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Speaker 2: we are expected to be managing their friendships very hands on.

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Speaker 2: At the school, we're taking them to activities and play

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Speaker 2: dates all weekend. Like, parenting has never been more intense,

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Speaker 2: and parents are kind of cracking up. We don't have

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Speaker 2: time to do at all. And so what we're doing

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Speaker 2: is we're certainly the first thing that goes into our

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Speaker 2: social lives, and it certainly anything that doesn't do with

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Speaker 2: the family socializing. So mum's book club, mum's bubble bath,

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Speaker 2: mum's wine with the friends, and people are also doing

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Speaker 2: less work. You know, sometimes we're cutting back on work

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Speaker 2: hours so that we can be there for the kids.

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Speaker 2: But doing less parenting hasn't occurred to anyone, like cutting

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Speaker 2: out some of that hands on, intensive, time consuming parenting

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Speaker 2: that isn't really making any of us happy, but which

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Speaker 2: we think we have to do to be a good

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Speaker 2: parent these days.

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Speaker 5: I'm really curious, Susie, what were your parents like growing up.

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Speaker 2: Out of the seventies? So oh god, Actually, my mother

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Speaker 2: was listening in on one interview we did, and she

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Speaker 2: was texting me the whole time with tales of her

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Speaker 2: lax parenting. Like mother was saying that she had to

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Speaker 2: organize her own eighth birthday because mum and dad had

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Speaker 2: been out the night before and just showed those signs

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Speaker 2: of getting out of bed. So she cleaned the house,

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Speaker 2: she made the party food or you know, put it

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Speaker 2: out on the table, and made her own birthday cake

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Speaker 2: aged eight. And look, it wasn't like that. Most of

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Speaker 2: the time. They were very very dutiful, very good parents.

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Speaker 2: But the thought of them leaving work early to take

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Speaker 2: my sister or to activities, the thought of them arranging

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Speaker 2: their weekends around what we wanted to do instead of

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Speaker 2: stuff that they wanted to do around the house, mostly

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Speaker 2: kind of cementing things into the ground. You know, what

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Speaker 2: parents did back in the seventies wouldn't have ever occurred

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Speaker 2: to them, Like they ran their own lives and we

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Speaker 2: fitted in with them. I'm not necessarily saying we have

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Speaker 2: to go back to that, but I think the balances

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Speaker 2: moved too far in the other direction.

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Speaker 5: Justin was reading a line to me as he was

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Speaker 5: devouring the book the other night, and it made me

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Speaker 5: laugh out loud. You're a proponent of the three second rule.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, once you become a parent, you have to

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Speaker 2: apply the three second rules to everything, you know, to

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Speaker 2: the dropped ice cream, to the dropped dummy, to daddy's pants.

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Speaker 2: You know, now we're a parent, three seconds all you're

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Speaker 2: going to get.

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Speaker 5: I actually saw a really cool meme the other day.

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Speaker 5: It was a piece of bread on the ground and

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Speaker 5: then there was a sergeant germ and then a whole

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Speaker 5: heap of lucky germs at the other end, and he

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Speaker 5: was like, wait.

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Speaker 4: Three seconds, don't jump on the bread until three seconds

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Speaker 4: is up.

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Speaker 2: And you guys would know, you know, the more kids

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Speaker 2: you have, the lower you stand it's drop and you

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Speaker 2: know that's not necessarily a bad thing. You know, when

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Speaker 2: you have the first kid, they drop the dummy and

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Speaker 2: you sterilize it and pop out the new jummy that

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Speaker 2: you've got in your nappy bag. When there's second kid

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Speaker 2: drops their dummy, you run under the hot water tap

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Speaker 2: and put it back in. And a third kid drops

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Speaker 2: their dummy, you lick it and you put it straight.

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Speaker 4: We've got We've got We've got six kids, Susy, so

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Speaker 4: we we've lived that dream.

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Speaker 2: Nightmare no dummies for number six.

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Speaker 4: We're going to continue this in Justice Ex Suzy. We

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Speaker 4: we're going to find out a little bit about maybe

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Speaker 4: some provocative things that you've written in your brand new book.

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Speaker 4: That's right after this. It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 3: to feel bad or in trouble. The Do's and donts

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Speaker 3: of Discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 3: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at Happy

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Speaker 3: families dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 5: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 5: poor parent who just wants answers now and today we've

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Speaker 5: been talking with journalist and author Susie O'Brien about her

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Speaker 5: brand new book. We're having a lot of fun doing it.

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Speaker 4: Too, So, Susie, something that I found really provocative was

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Speaker 4: what you said about the idea that parents are always

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Speaker 4: complaining that they don't have time.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: We talked about this just briefly before, but I think

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Speaker 4: that it's worth spending more time on it because you've

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Speaker 4: gone to the data in the book and according to

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Speaker 4: the National Center for Social and Economic Modeling, ossies have

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Speaker 4: filled in their time used data surveys and we have

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Speaker 4: about twenty percent of our days available for leisure. Now,

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Speaker 4: first of all, I looked at it and I thought, kriky,

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Speaker 4: I'd do anything for twenty percent of my day as leisure.

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Speaker 4: But I know that it's an average, so on average.

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Speaker 4: While some parents are going to rubbish that and say

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Speaker 4: I do not have that amount of time, the nat

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Speaker 4: SEM data says that we do actually have this time.

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Speaker 4: And is it that our kids are now getting it

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Speaker 4: with us? Like, what are we doing with that extra

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Speaker 4: twenty percent of our days that's available for leisure?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that our kids. We're doing things with

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Speaker 2: and for our kids. And you know what, in some

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Speaker 2: ways that's not a bad thing, but it means that

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Speaker 2: we were not actually don't have time for anything else,

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Speaker 2: and we're filling our time driving our kids around to

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Speaker 2: places that they could probably get to themselves where, not

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Speaker 2: only dropping them off at sporting matches like my parents

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Speaker 2: certainly used to do. My dad used to sit in

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Speaker 2: the Kingswood out the back, you know, about a block

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Speaker 2: away and listen to the Google on the radio because

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Speaker 2: they were like the thought of watching my sister and

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Speaker 2: I for endless hours play sport was just not on

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Speaker 2: his radar. He would have driven home, but we lived

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Speaker 2: on the other side of town. So you know, I

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Speaker 2: think we're filling our days with things that don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: make us happy, but we feel compelled to do these days.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I look at Lego, and that's a

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Speaker 2: really good example. When I was growing up in the

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Speaker 2: seventies and eighties, Lego. You'd get a new box of Lego,

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Speaker 2: you think it was Christmas. You'd open it out onto

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Speaker 2: the living room floor. Your parents might swear if they

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Speaker 2: stand on a piece, that's about the extent of their

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Speaker 2: engagement on it. And they would leave us to make

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Speaker 2: our wonky creations these days, you know, lego is all branded.

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Speaker 2: You spend two hundred dollars on the Mandalori and X

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Speaker 2: Wing star Fighter whatever they're called. And the parents sit

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Speaker 2: down and they do the lego with the kids, and there's.

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Speaker 4: Right and the wrong way to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what, the kids aren't happy because

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Speaker 2: they've been told that they're doing it wrong. The parents

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Speaker 2: aren't happy because it's boring, let's face it, and it's

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Speaker 2: expensive and it takes up hours of our time. And

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Speaker 2: when that X wing plane or whatever it's called has

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Speaker 2: been finished eight hours later by the dad, often it

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Speaker 2: goes up on the high shelf because it's too valuable

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Speaker 2: to be played with.

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Speaker 4: That's just nuts.

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Speaker 2: We're giving our kids these lego, but we're not actually

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Speaker 2: letting them play with it.

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Speaker 5: So I just I've had a thought. Susie's had been talking.

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Speaker 5: You're saying that you know, as parents we should ease up.

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Speaker 5: That you know, it's okay for us to have bake

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Speaker 5: beans on toast for dinner and stop trying to do

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Speaker 5: it all. But for me as a mum, I have

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Speaker 5: to admit that, even though I'm really exhausted, I also

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Speaker 5: take pride in you know, serving up beautifully cooked meals

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Speaker 5: for my kids and you know, making my house look beauty,

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Speaker 5: you know, as a mum of six girls, like I

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Speaker 5: wish it wasn't so full on all the time. But

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Speaker 5: I don't love it when I don't do all of

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Speaker 5: that stuff because it just it just it doesn't make

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Speaker 5: me feel great. So I personally feel good when I'm

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Speaker 5: able to do all of the things that I want

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Speaker 5: to do. So what would you say to someone who's

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Speaker 5: argued that this book may be just a call for

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Speaker 5: mediocrity and an acceptance of the meh whatever kind of

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Speaker 5: approach to parenting.

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Speaker 2: I think that if what you're doing makes you happy

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Speaker 2: and makes the people in your life happy, then go

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Speaker 2: for gold. I mean, there's a big part of this

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Speaker 2: book that is about trust your gut. Like you know,

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Speaker 2: the answers people say all the time are my kids

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Speaker 2: on too many spending too much time on screens? If

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Speaker 2: you're asking the question, then they probably are the biggest

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Speaker 2: thing that younger mothers are saying to me. And done

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Speaker 2: weeks of media interviews now about the book, the biggest

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Speaker 2: question they raise is do I have to cook everything

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Speaker 2: from scratch? Is a squeezy pow okay, and I say

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Speaker 2: to them, how would I know? If you're asking the question,

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Speaker 2: then it's obviously an issue. So it probably is okay

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Speaker 2: to use the odd squeeze pouch. So it's really up

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Speaker 2: to you and trusting your gut and your instincts as

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Speaker 2: a parent. If you, as a parent don't want to,

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Speaker 2: you know, the cooking the beautiful meals from scratchel, from

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Speaker 2: a can, whatever, and keeping the house in order is

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Speaker 2: important to you, then.

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Speaker 3: Go for gold.

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Speaker 2: But it might be that in order to get that

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Speaker 2: done and stay sane, you hold back on some of

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Speaker 2: the activities and you say to the kids, I'm not

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Speaker 2: driving anyone anywhere on Sunday, so that I've actually got

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Speaker 2: some time for some family time where I'm not cooking

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Speaker 2: or cleaning or doing something for someone else. So it's

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Speaker 2: actually about making conscious decisions about what suits us as

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Speaker 2: families and not following what I tell people to do,

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Speaker 2: or not following what the Instagram you know influences say

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Speaker 2: is the right way to parent.

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Speaker 5: Love this approach, Susie, just that recognition that you know,

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Speaker 5: parenting is not this one size fits all, and you

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Speaker 5: know we have to go through our own filters to

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Speaker 5: kind of work out you know what sits well with

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Speaker 5: each of.

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Speaker 2: Us, and you know what it's about giving us permission

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Speaker 2: to parent the way that we want. And I think

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Speaker 2: for me, and like I said, by partner says, because

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Speaker 2: his parents never drove him anywhere, he always talks about

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Speaker 2: how he walked everywhere, and of course this is the

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Speaker 2: middle of Melbourne, so it wasn't that bad. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: through the snow or anything. He says, Oh, you drive

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Speaker 2: the kids too many places, and I say to that him, yeah,

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Speaker 2: But for me, particularly with my oldest son, it's our

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Speaker 2: time together. Maybe it's an excuse, but if I wanted

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Speaker 2: to say no, I would. And so it's actually about

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Speaker 2: going through that process of working out what makes you

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Speaker 2: happy as a parent, and no one else can do

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Speaker 2: that for us. And I think what we're what we're

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Speaker 2: letting happen is we're letting other people decide what a

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Speaker 2: good parent is like we're letting other people have control

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Speaker 2: over our guilt and our minds about what we should

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Speaker 2: be doing and how we should be spending our time.

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Speaker 2: And if having take away two nights a week, which

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Speaker 2: means that you can go to the park and throw

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Speaker 2: the ball with the dog and kick the footy with

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Speaker 2: the kids gives you that time, that extra hour in

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Speaker 2: the day, then that might be more important than cooking

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Speaker 2: from scratch every night. Or you might feel that that

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Speaker 2: meal and knowing that exactly what's gone into it is

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Speaker 2: more important for you.

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Speaker 4: Susy. If there was one thing, just one message that

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Speaker 4: you really want parents to take from the book, what

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Speaker 4: would it be.

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Speaker 2: I want people to drop the guilt. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things that people say is I don't seem to

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Speaker 2: be able to raise my kids the way I want to,

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Speaker 2: and you think about that, that's nuts because where the

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Speaker 2: ones raising them. I want people to think about what

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Speaker 2: they're doing as parents and question everything. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to do everything that's asked of you. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to parent the way you think other people want you

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Speaker 2: to do it. They're your kids. Back his se and

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Speaker 2: make your own decisions.

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Speaker 4: You go, girl. It's a funny book, loads of great insights,

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Speaker 4: some surprising data, and it's well researched, as you would

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Speaker 4: expect from doctor Susie O'Brien. Plus it probably will make

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Speaker 4: you fall in love with parenting again. That's my parenting

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Speaker 4: review of it. Susi O'Brien. What do we need to

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Speaker 4: know about the book? Its title, and where we can

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Speaker 4: get it.

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Speaker 2: It's called the Secret of Half Fast Parenting and it's

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Speaker 2: in all good bookshops now, it's online, and there's even

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Speaker 2: going to be an audio book, So the Secret of

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Speaker 2: Half Us Parenting.

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Speaker 5: Thanks so much, Doctor Suzi O'Brien. We hope you've enjoyed

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Speaker 5: the podcast and thank you for listening.

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Speaker 4: Leave us a rating and review. By the way, if

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Speaker 4: you do enjoy the podcast, we got Mama Evolving leaving

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Speaker 4: us a five star review a five star rating. I

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Speaker 4: a year now and each new podcast is so relevant

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Speaker 4: to what's happening in our world and what the kids

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Speaker 4: are going through. Great advice on parenting, what parents face

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Speaker 4: in their own lives, how to help your relationship, and

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Speaker 4: give everyone in your family a superstar. Keep going, Justin

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Speaker 4: and Kylee, we love your work from Mama Evolving. We

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Speaker 4: foind out about the podcast. We appreciate Justin rule On

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Speaker 4: from Bridge Media for his wonderful work producing the podcast,

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Speaker 4: and our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you'd like

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Speaker 4: more information about making your family happy, you can find

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Speaker 4: it at happy families dot com dot au