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Speaker 1: As we know, traditional owners of Buckingham Bay recently made

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Speaker 1: the decision to close the water to commercial barrel mundy

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Speaker 1: fishes over gilnet concerns. Traditional owners made that decision due

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Speaker 1: to the environmental impacts of gilnetting, also citing a lack

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Speaker 1: of action by the Northern Territory government over the issue.

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Speaker 1: Buckingham Bay now adds to the list of closures after

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Speaker 1: the Mini Mini and Morganella were closed for barrow fishing

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Speaker 1: earlier this year, at which time AFANT, the body representing

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Speaker 1: recreational fishes, called for an immediate government buyback of those

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Speaker 1: affected commercial licenses, but it went unheated. Now the CEO,

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Speaker 1: A David Chirovolo, joins me in the studio now to

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Speaker 1: delve a little bit further into the situation. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, David.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you in the studio. Now, tell us

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Speaker 1: us our fads support the closure of Buckingham Bay two

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Speaker 1: commercial barrow fishes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look, I think most fishes would support waters

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Speaker 3: being closed to.

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Speaker 2: Gillnett fore like that.

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Speaker 3: It's an area where there's been a high level of

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Speaker 3: commercial fishing. Certainly our recreational fishes at our club there

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Speaker 3: at Nulan Boy and the locals we've spoken to have

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Speaker 3: welcomed that decision, and obviously we respect the decision of

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Speaker 3: the traditional owners to manage their intertidal waters in that way.

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Speaker 1: Tell us a bit more about what gil nesting is

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Speaker 1: and why it is so detrimental.

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Speaker 3: So it's a form of fishing that involves basically stringing

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Speaker 3: a net. In this case, a license in the territory

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Speaker 3: has a kilometer of net associated with it. It's usually

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Speaker 3: sort of a six to seven inch mesh net and

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Speaker 3: it's set across a tidal flat or across a drain,

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Speaker 3: and it's designed to be able to catch the fish

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Speaker 3: in the gills when they swim through it. Now, the

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Speaker 3: challenge with it is that it doesn't only catch the

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Speaker 3: species that's intended, but also catches other fish species, but

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Speaker 3: has been known to catch a lot of the traditional

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Speaker 3: owners of Jugong's turtles sawfish, which we know are threatened,

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Speaker 3: protected and endangered species.

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Speaker 1: So what are our fans concerns with this situation.

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Speaker 3: Well, primary and immediate concerns are that in the space

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Speaker 3: of the last six months, we've seen the area where

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Speaker 3: fifty percent of the commercial gillnet barral mundy catch comes

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Speaker 3: from be closed by traditional owners and that's their right

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Speaker 3: to make that decision. But what that means is there

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Speaker 3: are fewer waters left for the same amount of net

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Speaker 3: and if the ambition of the commercial sector is to

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Speaker 3: catch the same amount of fish, we're going to see

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Speaker 3: higher levels of fishing in those areas that are also

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Speaker 3: really important for recreational fishing, fishing, tourism and traditional fishing.

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Speaker 3: So we have had a number of net fishing closure

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Speaker 3: areas around the territory. But what that means is the

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Speaker 3: areas that are available for netting have shrunk in the past.

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Speaker 3: That's been done by the government and the government has

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Speaker 3: brought out licenses to balance the available fishing area with

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Speaker 3: the amount of net And.

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Speaker 1: So is that what needs to happen here? I mean,

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Speaker 1: do those licensed buybacks need to happen? Does the government

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Speaker 1: need to start those negotiations.

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Speaker 3: I think there are two things that need to happen

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Speaker 3: in the short term and then there's a longer term

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Speaker 3: discussion about how this fishery works in general. In the

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Speaker 3: short term, what we need to see by the start

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Speaker 3: of the season next year that there are catch quotas

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Speaker 3: in place based conservatively for each catchment. So we know

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Speaker 3: that the baron Mundy fishery in the Daily or Anson

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Speaker 3: Bay is a different fishery to the Ropa River is

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Speaker 3: a different fishery to and Buckingham Bay, and they have

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Speaker 3: to be managed as individual stocks. So those limits on

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Speaker 3: the catch have to occur at that level. Once you

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Speaker 3: do that, it becomes clear that you can't just have

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Speaker 3: an area close and have that amount of catch transfer

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Speaker 3: to another area because you've got a ceiling on it.

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Speaker 3: You're saying, we've got a balance to keep here between

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Speaker 3: traditional owners, recreational fishes, commercial fishes and the environment. And

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Speaker 3: so then you have too many licenses, you have too

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Speaker 3: much in there and they need to buy out those

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Speaker 3: affected licenses. That's in the short term. In the long term,

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Speaker 3: we need to be looking at what is the best

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Speaker 3: way to share and to access this fishery, what is sustainable,

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Speaker 3: what fits with community values. And we've seen across the

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Speaker 3: border in Queensland the federal government have given Queensland government

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Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty million dollars to phase out barrel

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Speaker 3: mundy guilnetting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so in Queensland that's a step they're taking.

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Speaker 1: So what a block where are we at here in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: Well, we currently have a review into this fishery.

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Speaker 3: The review was expected to be looking at all parts

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Speaker 3: of the fishery to look at resource sharing. How we

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Speaker 3: balance a relatively low value commercial fishery with a very

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Speaker 3: high value recreational and tourism fishery. Two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 3: million dollars in the recreational fishing industry in the territory

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Speaker 3: two and a half thousand jobs. The GVP of this

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Speaker 3: commercial fishery on average over the last ten years has

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Speaker 3: been around three point six million dollars, so there is

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Speaker 3: a huge gulf between the contribution to community. Now, of

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Speaker 3: course we know that people want to be able to

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Speaker 3: buy a barrel mundy and come to the NT and

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Speaker 3: eat barrow mundy at.

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Speaker 2: A restaurant, and it should be a premium product.

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Speaker 3: There is no reason that it couldn't be done in

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Speaker 3: a more sustainable way. But the way it currently is

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Speaker 3: structured as a gillnet fishery means that these problems continue

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Speaker 3: to occur. And now we've got traditional owners closing those

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Speaker 3: waters as is their right. The riding is on the

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Speaker 3: wall for this fishery. It needs a wholesale reform.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there is no doubt that those that are

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Speaker 1: commercial fisher operators I would suspect if they are operating

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Speaker 1: in this way, they're going to be pretty you know,

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Speaker 1: they're going to be not happy about the situation as

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Speaker 1: it is currently unfolding. But from what you are saying

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Speaker 1: in places like Queensland, it's being phased out. I mean,

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Speaker 1: are you picking a fight here with the commercial fishing

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Speaker 1: industry of the territory.

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Speaker 3: So look, we're there are fisheries in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: that are highly sustainable, that are quota managed, that have

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Speaker 3: rules in place for catches in certain areas, that have limits.

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Speaker 2: Of catch for individual fisheries operators.

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Speaker 3: We've got fisheries like the Jewfish fishery that has quota

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Speaker 3: managed line court one fish at a time, Spanish macrorel

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Speaker 3: quota managed moving to quota management, one fish at a time.

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Speaker 3: They're highly sustainable, highly productive fisheries that everybody can be

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Speaker 3: proud of.

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Speaker 1: So you reckon it just needs to go to that

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Speaker 1: sustainable way of doing things.

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Speaker 3: Well, we have to make sure that whatever we do

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Speaker 3: is in step with community values. But also we can't

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Speaker 3: ignore the fact that we do have an obligation to

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Speaker 3: protect those threatened, protected and endangered species. Now, all types

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Speaker 3: of fishing could have some interactions with tep species, and

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Speaker 3: it's not about saying, well, if we have one interaction,

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Speaker 3: we can't have a fishery. We need to be monitoring that.

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Speaker 3: But to reduce it right down and line fishing or

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Speaker 3: some forms of trapped fishing or for example, putting crab

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Speaker 3: pots out and they have much less interactions. But gillnetting

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Speaker 3: in areas that are tidal have a high prevalence of

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Speaker 3: these threatened, protected and endangered species. And we know we

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Speaker 3: haven't been collecting the data so for years and years

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Speaker 3: and years decades, we don't have great data sets.

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Speaker 2: How can that possibly be?

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Speaker 1: David, tell me you've written to the Minister for Fishing,

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Speaker 1: now Paul Kirby. Have you had a response at this stage.

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Speaker 3: Well, we've had some conversations with Minister Kirby and we

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Speaker 3: expect to continue to have those conversations. To be fair

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Speaker 3: to everybody, here as an element of this that has

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Speaker 3: been foreseeable, we've been saying that it's coming. On the

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Speaker 3: other hand, it's also a unique challenge because in the past,

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Speaker 3: as I said, when areas have been closed that have

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Speaker 3: been closed by the government, and there's been buyouts and compensation.

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Speaker 3: Now we have a law in this country, it's Commonwealth law.

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Speaker 3: It's been in place for a long time and now

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Speaker 3: it's being ex where traditional loaners are saying, well, we

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Speaker 3: have the right to say what's happening here, and they're

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Speaker 3: making those decisions. That's a decision they've made. Now they

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Speaker 3: might change their mind in some places. Other places might

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Speaker 3: also decide. Those traditionalis might decide to close their waters.

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Speaker 3: So the government is playing catch up. We've got fisheries

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Speaker 3: management for this Barrow fishery that is very old.

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Speaker 2: It's decades old.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't anticipate people moving around a lot. We've got

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Speaker 3: people moving around a lot now and that's why the

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Speaker 3: management needs to change and that's what we've asked the

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Speaker 3: Minister to intervene and to do in the immediate term

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Speaker 3: prior to the next season.

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Speaker 2: And we need to continue to walk to reform the

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Speaker 2: whole fishery.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like this is something that happened that

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Speaker 1: needs to happen pretty immediately from your perspective.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, we've been calling for reform of the Barrow

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Speaker 3: Mundy fishery for a long time. We sought a commitment

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Speaker 3: at the last election and received a commitment to have

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Speaker 3: a review of the fishery. I don't know whether that

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Speaker 3: review is currently going in the right direction, but events

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Speaker 3: are overtaking us here anyway.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I mean, what kind of impact is it

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Speaker 1: then having on recreational fishing in the northern territory.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, we know from the fishes who fish in

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Speaker 3: those places where there have been high levels of commercial fishing,

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Speaker 3: like Buckingham Bay, that the locals have been screaming about

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Speaker 3: that for years and the traditional owners have been.

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Speaker 2: Upset about that too.

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Speaker 3: We've had reports from the last couple of weeks that

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Speaker 3: there's been a high level of fishing pressure in Anson

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Speaker 3: Bay as we wind up towards the end of the season,

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Speaker 3: and apparently the recreational fishing has been terrible. But we're

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Speaker 3: now faced with the situation. The territory is the mecha

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Speaker 3: for recreational fishing tourism for Barramundy. This is the backbone

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Speaker 3: of the fishery. Across the border in Queensland, they've announced

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Speaker 3: that they're phasing out this. The fishing is going to

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Speaker 3: continue to improve up and down the coast in Queensland

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Speaker 3: and we've got a serious competitor on our hands, so

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Speaker 3: we need to also make sure that not only do

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Speaker 3: we maintain and protect our environment and our fisheries and

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Speaker 3: balance that sustainably, but we don't lose our competitive advantage

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Speaker 3: with Queensland.

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Speaker 1: So what are you calling for today?

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Speaker 3: Today we've called on the government, or last week we've

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Speaker 3: called on the government to implement formal commercial catch quotas

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Speaker 3: at that catchment level and then they need to buy

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Speaker 3: out affected Baramundy licenses to balance that amount of net

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Speaker 3: with available waters. We then need to crack on in

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Speaker 3: double time with the review of the fishery to look

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Speaker 3: seriously at how this fits with what is ecologically and

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Speaker 3: socially sustainable. And you know, I think we also should

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Speaker 3: be looking at the federal governments. Given the Queensland government

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Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty million dollars, why are the issues

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Speaker 3: that are important in Queensland not important in the territory.

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Speaker 3: And also we've got waters adjacent to Kakadoo where when

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Speaker 3: this fishery applied for its export accreditation the minister wrote

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Speaker 3: back and said, withdraw your application and pay attention to

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Speaker 3: the waters adjacent to Kakado. We've got Indigenous protected areas

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Speaker 3: that are conservation areas around the territory. Those are federal

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Speaker 3: government responsibilities. So it's not just the territory government alone here.

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Speaker 3: We all need to pull together to see how we

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Speaker 3: can restructure this fishery to really meet the needs.

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Speaker 2: Of the day.

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Speaker 1: You said you've written to the Northern Territory Minister, Paul Kirby.

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Speaker 1: Where are you at with the federal government, I mean,

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Speaker 1: have you followed them up and have you had any response.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, that's certainly something that we are considering. We

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Speaker 3: don't think that's something that needs necessarily to do alone

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Speaker 3: because I can imagine that really the industry, avan the

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Speaker 3: guided fishing industry, potentially traditional owners and the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: government should all be thinking that they shouldn't be alone

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Speaker 3: in this and that if resourcing is a key component,

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Speaker 3: which it undoubtedly is, that we could be making a

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Speaker 3: joint approach eventually to the federal government.

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Speaker 2: Now that's not something that's currently happening. That's probably my part.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, in an ideal world, it would be we're

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Speaker 3: not going to hold back, will continue to work on this.

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Speaker 2: We've been working on it for a long.

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Speaker 3: Time, but really events have overtaken the chance to reform

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Speaker 3: this fishery in a piecemeal way.

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Speaker 2: I think it's.

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Speaker 3: Pretty clear to see that we can't just keep having

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Speaker 3: more nets crammed into smaller areas, and we can't keep

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Speaker 3: having fishing going in a way that's compromising the territory's

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Speaker 3: most valuable fishery, which is its recreation fishery.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it seems to me like there maybe does

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Speaker 1: need to be an approach here where, like you've said,

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Speaker 1: it might be a pipe dream for you, where everybody

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Speaker 1: does join forces and you actually approach the federal government

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Speaker 1: in a constructive way and go, we've got to sort

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Speaker 1: this out. We've got to sort it out fast.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I think that's absolutely you know, my phone's on.

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Speaker 2: I'm more than happy to take anyone's calls.

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Speaker 3: I've been reaching out to counterparts as well, of course,

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Speaker 3: to have those conversations. Those conversations are an early phase

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Speaker 3: and I don't have anything more to say about that now.

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Speaker 3: But regardless of whether the federal government comes to the party,

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Speaker 3: it is a territory managed fishery in these inshore waters.

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Speaker 3: So the territory government does have the responsibility the management

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Speaker 3: is out of day.

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Speaker 2: Events have overtaken it.

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Speaker 3: Now is the time to act and then we can

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Speaker 3: get our heads together to work out how we restructure

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Speaker 3: this going forward.

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Speaker 1: Well, David Giirovolo, it's always good to catch up with you.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time this morning and for talking

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Speaker 1: us through this issue.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you,