1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: Well, as you heard on the show yesterday, the Northern 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Territory Government denounce the expanding of the Container Deposit scheme 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: to include any ready to drink container of up to 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: three leaders, including spirits and wine bottles. It will be 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: a first for the Northern Territory, with the Minister for 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Lands Planning an Environment Joshua Burgoyne saying the expansion is 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: a win for Territorians and indeed the environment with more 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: eligible containers to maximize returns and cleaner public spaces. Now 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: joining us on the line is Waste and Recycling Industry 10 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: Association Northern Territory CEO Adam Gray. Good morning to. 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: You, Adam, Good morning, how are you. 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: Ye're really good. Great to have you on the show. 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: I mean, Adam, this seems like a great move, a 14 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: very positive move. Is it a win from your perspective? 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, our industry is really supportive of the expansion 16 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: of the CDs scheme in the Northern Territory. No, it's 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: a hugely successful product steel chip arrangement. It's really well 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: accepted by the community and it certainly helps our industry 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: in resource recovery by removing things like glass from collection systems, 20 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: which has a tendency to cause problems in recovery of 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: other materials like paper and cardboard when it breaks. So 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: we think this is a really positive move. 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: So what's your understanding of exactly what's going to be 24 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: included as of I believe it'll be a little later 25 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: this year once the legislation passes through parliament. 26 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: Look, the details sit with the Northern Territory government. We 27 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: understand that there's an expansion of the scheme to include 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: in particular wine and spirit bottles and bottles up to 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: three leaders that are held. So yeah, really positive, really 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: positive for the move, and it's really positive from the 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 2: Northern Territory government perspective in the sense of national harmonization 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: of container deposit schemes across the country. It can be 33 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: quite challenging for our industry to manage different schemes and 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: different requirements in different states. It's a lot of our 35 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: members are nationally operating and so this brings Non Territory 36 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: in line with some of our other national jurisdictions. And yeah, 37 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: so it's quite a positive movement on the number of fronts. 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: So obviously bringing us in line with those other jurisdictions. 39 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: I mean, Adam, why why has it sort of taking 40 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: it so long to get to this point where we 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: are in line with other jurisdictions. 42 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, I'm bringing government to agencies from across 43 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: the country. Can sometimes lead to a lot of complexity 44 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: and negotiation. And we saw Queensland leap ahead with introduction 45 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: of wine and spirit bottles ahead of the national harmonization approach. 46 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: And we know that South Australia is still struggling to 47 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: come to terms with lobbying from the wine industry in particular. 48 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 2: So we're really positive that the Northern Territory government is 49 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: also taking this step and we hope that gradually that 50 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: momentum builds and brings the other other jurisdictions in line 51 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: as well. 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: So in terms of what currently happens, I guess with 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: those you know, with those wine bottles, with some of 54 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: those other bigger bottles, even like the milk bottles, do 55 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: they currently like do they just go to landfill? Now? 56 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: What happens in the Northern Territory right now? 57 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: Look, there certainly is a lot of glass that ends 58 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: up in landfill. However, the bulk of the CDs material 59 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: glass is collected, it's taken through deposit scheme. Collection agencies 60 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: the bulk of it is recovered. So we know that 61 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: the redemption rate in the Northern Territory has been increasing 62 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: year on year. It's now over eighty percent, which is 63 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: really positive. So over eighty percent of bottles that are 64 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: entered into the market are collected at the end through 65 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: the CDs scheme and where they're going. The bulk of 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: them are heading into State, most of them are heading 67 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: down to South Australia and they are proceeds through Aurora, 68 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: a glass recycling facility and put back into the economy 69 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: as new bottles. 70 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: Adam, I mean, it's this sounds like it is a 71 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: really good move. I know for a lot of our listeners, 72 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people will see this as a positive 73 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: thing being able to you know, to take those different 74 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: larger bottles obviously through the container deposit scheme. Is there 75 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: other things that we could be doing in the Northern 76 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: Territory at the moment to you know, to improve the 77 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: ways in which we recycle and and to you know, 78 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 1: to sort of improve even further. 79 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. Our industry has done a couple of 80 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: really interesting pieces of work recently. So we've highlighted the 81 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: economic benefit that the waste and resource recovery industry provides 82 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: to the Northern Territory, and we've also provided some advice 83 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 2: to the Northern Territory government about how we think it 84 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: could move what is relatively a linear pathway for a 85 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: lot of materials, where we buy them, we consume them, 86 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: we put them into a bins, and the end up 87 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: in landfill. We know that there are jobs to be created, 88 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: there's economic benefits to come from resource recovery and recycling. 89 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: And one of the biggest things that we think the 90 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: industry has identified is every state and territory nationally places 91 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: a levy on materials that are deposited into landfill, except 92 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: for the Northern Territory. And it is a blunt instrument, 93 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: but we know it works. It encourages investment and resource recovery. 94 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: It encourages growth in jobs and market development with new 95 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: businesses coming into the jurisdiction when we price the cost 96 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: the true cost of throwing materials straight into landfill. So 97 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 2: we've certainly presented that to government, and we're really interested 98 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: in opening the dialogue not just with the government but 99 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: the wider community about the benefits that pricing landfill will come. 100 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: So Adam how would that work. So essentially then businesses 101 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: would be footing any bill of anything that does need 102 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: to go into landfill. Yeah. 103 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: Look, so essentially how works is we you know, the 104 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: market says, you know, the price of taking material to 105 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: landfill increases, so why don't you look for alternatives? And 106 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: this is where businesses will invest. They will know that 107 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: the market is saying you are looking for an alternative 108 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: pathway for that material, and they know what the price is, 109 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: you know, to deposit in a landfill, and they will largely, 110 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: you know, price themselves lower than that. And so all 111 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: of a sudden you start to see industry investing in 112 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: resource recovery opportunities because they know that there's a pathway 113 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: for some of these materials. One of the key things 114 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: that we need to work on are markets. So there's 115 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 2: no point developing a resource recovery and recycling business unless 116 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: you've got an access point for the product at the 117 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: end of the day. So what are those markets? And 118 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 2: so there's a bit of work to do around where 119 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 2: are our most appropriate markets. And some of it is 120 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 2: going to be into state, some of it is going 121 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 2: to be overseas, but certainly some of those markets sit 122 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: within the territory itself. 123 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: Look at how much it could potentially like the additional 124 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: costs that it could be for you know, for a 125 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: business or an organization. Do we have any idea what 126 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: that might look like. 127 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: Look the design of a of a levee on landfill is, 128 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: you know, is an intricate thing. The industry would certainly 129 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,119 Speaker 2: be suggesting a gentle entry, so you know which every 130 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: jurisdiction has done. Start low, gradually build up the systems 131 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: and practices and acceptance within community and businesses. We know 132 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: that it's it's a very marginal increase for you know, 133 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: curb side collections, so you know, your wastein that you 134 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: present to the curb side from a residential perspective, and 135 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: so it's a it's a minor it's a minor impost 136 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: for what we know are significant gains. And we know 137 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: that the gains are not just environmental, because throwing material 138 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: and landfill was a real loss of you know, valuable products. 139 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: But we also know that it's a real loss in 140 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: economic value to the territory because we're not taking advantage 141 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: of the new businesses and economic activity and jobs that 142 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: a levy will will create because it has done so 143 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: in every other jurisdiction in Australia. 144 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: Adam, I can imagine that some listening this morning, certainly 145 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: some of those businesses listening this morning might be thinking 146 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: to themselves, oh my goodness, you know, this would be 147 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: another cost, you know, to add on when we're already 148 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: potentially doing it a bit tough. I mean, what would 149 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: you say to those listening this morning that are maybe 150 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: thinking that. 151 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: Look, what I would say is it's certainly not a 152 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 2: cost that's guaranteed, because if you can avoid sending material 153 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: to landfill, then you would certainly not be paying that cost. 154 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: So and we would also say that, you know, generally 155 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 2: we need to start valuing the true cost of putting 156 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: materials into landfill and losing them from our economy. And 157 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: our industry is about resource recovery and value adding. We 158 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: have moved largely beyond the conversation about the environmental benefits 159 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: of waste and resource recovery management because our industry does 160 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: a really good job of pulling out materials when there's 161 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: value to it. But we need to create we need 162 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: to be better at creating that value proposition. So I 163 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 2: would be saying to businesses, you can avoid the cost. 164 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: We just need to find a better way and a 165 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: better pathway for a lot of these materials that we're 166 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: simply just throwing into landfill. 167 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: Well, Adam Gray, really good to speak with you this morning, 168 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: and I think it is a conversation that I'm sure 169 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: plenty of people will be really interested in having, so 170 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: I appreciate you joining me on the show today. 171 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: No problems anytime, Thank you 172 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time.