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Speaker 1: It's time for the week that was and joining us

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Speaker 1: live in the studio today, we have got the Minister

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Speaker 1: for Lands Planning and Environment, Josh Burgoyne. Good morning, Good.

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Speaker 2: Morning Katie, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Nice warm weather in Darwin, com.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful, very cold knows us about two degrees overnight, but

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Speaker 2: it's lovely.

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Speaker 1: Up here freezing. We have indeed got Matt Cunningham from

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Speaker 1: Sky News. Good morning to.

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Speaker 3: You, Matt, morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show. And we've got

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Speaker 1: the Opposition leader Selena Yubo, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 4: Good morning Katie, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 5: And just a quick happy birthday to my husband for today,

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Speaker 5: Oh happy birthday.

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Speaker 1: And well I'll tell you what it has been such

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Speaker 1: a busy week and we will talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about estimates throughout the throughout the morning, but before

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Speaker 1: we get there, I want to talk about these indecent assaults.

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Speaker 1: We know the Northern Territory Police are warning women to

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Speaker 1: stay vigilant after two indecent assaults in Darwin. A male

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Speaker 1: intruder allegedly and decently assaulted a woman in her own

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Speaker 1: bead at Alarakia Unit Complex the night before last Police

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Speaker 1: say the victim woke up to a hand across her

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Speaker 1: mouth by a man neatly dressed in all black wearing

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Speaker 1: a full face balaclava. It follows a similar incident in

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Speaker 1: perap with a woman waking up to a naked man

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Speaker 1: in her bed on Tuesday night. Now it's not known

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Speaker 1: if these incidents are linked, but the community is being

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Speaker 1: told to take precaution by securing doors and windows and

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Speaker 1: reporting any suspicious behavior now. Meanwhile, in a totally separate situation,

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police are calling for information in relation

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Speaker 1: to an indecent act towards a child under the age

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Speaker 1: of sixteen that occurred in Palmerston yesterday morning. About eight

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Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. The police received a report that

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Speaker 1: an unknown man had approached a young girl in the

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Speaker 1: vicinity of the Gray Community Hall and indecently exposed himself

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Speaker 1: while engaging in an indecent act towards her from a distance.

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Speaker 1: He's fled the scene when the police arrived. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all of these incidents are absolutely horriffic. We might go

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Speaker 1: to the indecent assaults inside these women's homes to begin with.

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Speaker 1: I honestly, I cannot think of anything more terrifying than

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Speaker 1: waking up in the middle of the night to have

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Speaker 1: somebody on top of you in your bed in one

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Speaker 1: of those situations. It is just it's terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Stuff, shocking incidents, shocking instances that have been occurring, and

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Speaker 2: unfortunately in my hometown of Alla Springs, we've seen this

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Speaker 2: happen in the past. Obviously, since comany government we have,

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Speaker 2: we've been strengthening these laws. We've been making sure that

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Speaker 2: we are locking up people there are danger on our streets,

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Speaker 2: and we will continue to strengthen the laws and make

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Speaker 2: sure that police have the powers they need. Obviously, police

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Speaker 2: are urging the public as you read out in that statement, Katie,

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Speaker 2: to whilst these people are still on the loose, we

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Speaker 2: need to ensure that these people are taken off the

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Speaker 2: street because obviously they've been a risk of the community

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Speaker 2: and this sort of behavior is simply not on. So

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Speaker 2: we need to ensure that any serious offenders are taken

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Speaker 2: off our streets so people can feel safe, because this

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Speaker 2: sort of behavior is simply a horror. We've seen it

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Speaker 2: happen right across the Northern Territory in the past. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: this really is concerning behavior and whenever we hear of

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Speaker 2: these sorts of incidents, we just think, you know, why

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Speaker 2: is this happening in our community? But we will continue

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Speaker 2: to strengthen the laws to ensure that we're taking these

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Speaker 2: people off our streets.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's just like you say, I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's absolutely terrible and would be terrible for the victims

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Speaker 3: involved and hopefully you know police, well, we know police

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Speaker 3: are doing everything they can to apprehend the alleged defender,

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Speaker 3: and let's hope they do so soon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's terrible, Like, it's terrifying stuff, Selena.

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Speaker 1: As a woman, I know, like you know, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter what gender you are, really, but to feel unsafe

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Speaker 1: in your own home is absolutely horrifying. You know, like

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Speaker 1: I think of myself if I'm at home with my kids.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you probably think the same, and a sense

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Speaker 1: of helplessness if somebody gets inside your house.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Katie, it's deeply disturbing to hear these incidences

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Speaker 5: and you know, so close together up here in Darwin,

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Speaker 5: and I'm sure there's you know, we've spoken on your

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Speaker 5: show many times, Katie about some of the escalation in

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Speaker 5: not just crime, but in terms of the types of

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Speaker 5: crime and that's what's really disturbing, and when it is

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Speaker 5: against a person who's at home on their own often

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Speaker 5: it is very very scary to think about that. So

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Speaker 5: I mean interested to hear more from Josh and his

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Speaker 5: team about what else is going to happen around the

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Speaker 5: focus around prevention of crime. Obviously there's been a lot

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Speaker 5: of work done by the government that focuses on some

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Speaker 5: of that acute and tail end of crime and what

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Speaker 5: happens after the fact. But I think prevention and support

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Speaker 5: around reducing risks in the community, I think that's really

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Speaker 5: something that we need to focus on here in the Territory.

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Speaker 1: Now, this comes the same week that we learned that

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Speaker 1: Territorians over eighteen are going to be able to buy

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Speaker 1: oc spray from September for self defense as part of

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Speaker 1: this twelve month trial. The Chief Minister says the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory is going to look to replication the approach in

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Speaker 1: Western Australia, the only other jurisdic where OC spray is lawful.

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Speaker 1: The Northern Territory Police leading that consultation with key stakeholders

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Speaker 1: and the community over the coming months to firm up

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Speaker 1: the specifics of that trial. Now, I know that there's

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Speaker 1: been quite a mixed reaction I think you'd say to

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Speaker 1: this announcement. By and large, we've actually received a lot

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Speaker 1: of positive feedback to this announcement throughout the week, certainly

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Speaker 1: from women contacting me saying Katie, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: feel safe if I go for a walk or when

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Speaker 1: I'm out and about, and I'm not planning on having

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Speaker 1: to use it, but if it's there, it is an option.

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Speaker 1: Others obviously quite concerned that it could get into the

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Speaker 1: wrong hands and that we may end up in a

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Speaker 1: situation where you've got kids or young people using this

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Speaker 1: oc spray in a way that is the total opposite

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Speaker 1: to what we intend. The Aboriginal Medical Services Alliance of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory am SAT strongly condemning the oc SP

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Speaker 1: spray trial, warning that it'll do nothing to improve community safety.

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Speaker 1: The CEO John Patterson saying giving the community access to

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Speaker 1: a weapon won't fix the problem, It'll fuel it, putting

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Speaker 1: lives of vulnerable people at risk. Now, I've got to

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Speaker 1: tell you I've had a stalker before, I've been followed

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Speaker 1: home before, I've had somebody approach me while i'm running.

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Speaker 1: Before and for me, I don't want to have to

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Speaker 1: arm myself with OC spray, but I wouldn't mind it

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Speaker 1: being an option.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's what I've heard from constituents.

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Speaker 2: In my electric Katie, I've got a number of women. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: an incident which I heard about just this week, a

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Speaker 2: woman was out exercising early morning, was assaulted. Her husband

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Speaker 2: is now riding his bike with her every morning just

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Speaker 2: so that she feels safe. What this is about is

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Speaker 2: this is about ensuring that if people want to avail

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Speaker 2: themselves of having OC spray, it will be a defensive option.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what people really need to get

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Speaker 2: their heads around here. This will be something someone can

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Speaker 2: use and then get away from someone that is attacking them. Now,

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Speaker 2: in regards to all the concerns that have been raised

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Speaker 2: about who's going to be able to access this, there

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Speaker 2: will need to be criminal history checks. People will need

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Speaker 2: to be eighteen years of age. This isn't something that's

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Speaker 2: going to be freely available for any Tom, Dick or

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Speaker 2: Harry to use. There will be checks and balances in place.

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Speaker 2: It will be sold by certain licensed people, and I

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Speaker 2: think this is something that we've really been another thing

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Speaker 2: that I've heard is, oh, this has just come out

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Speaker 2: of the blue. There's been a lot of conversation for

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Speaker 2: a lot of time, and we've heard loud and clear

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Speaker 2: from the community that at times don't feel safe in

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Speaker 2: certain settings. Now, we want to ensure that whilst we're

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Speaker 2: strengthening the laws, we're giving the police all the tools

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Speaker 2: they need, that we also ensure that people feel safe.

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Speaker 2: And if by carrying this low OC spray, this pepper

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Speaker 2: spray around with it makes them feel safe, well, then

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Speaker 2: that's a positive thing that we can do.

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Speaker 3: You need like, do you need to prove that you

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Speaker 3: need it for self defense? Or can anyone who could

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Speaker 3: I just rock up to I'm not sure where you're

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Speaker 3: planning to sell it from, but could I just rock

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Speaker 3: up and buy some if I don't have a criminal history.

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Speaker 2: As long as you don't have a criminal history and

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Speaker 2: you're above eighteen. Those will be the checks that we're

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Speaker 2: looking at him to put in place to ensure that

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Speaker 2: anyone that wishes to buy this can.

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Speaker 3: And is there a limit on how much of it

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Speaker 3: you can buy?

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Speaker 2: These will all be things that will be sorted out

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Speaker 2: closer to the release date in September.

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Speaker 3: And then I guess what stops someone who doesn't have

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Speaker 3: a criminal record, who's above eight and going and buying

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Speaker 3: pepper spray and then giving it to me. We see

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Speaker 3: the issues with secondary supply with alcohol, and we've never

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Speaker 3: been able to get on top of that issue. What

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Speaker 3: stops someone going and buying pepper spray and then giving

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Speaker 3: it to someone who really shouldn't have it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And look, people are going to raise these issues.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, we want to ensure

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Speaker 2: this has been something that's been in place for Western Australia.

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Speaker 2: There have been no issues for the last decade in

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Speaker 2: regards to the reporting that we've seen come out of

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Speaker 2: that jurisdiction. It's a defensive option for people should they

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Speaker 2: so wish to use it. I hope people never have

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Speaker 2: to use it, I seriously do. But if this prevents

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Speaker 2: a woman being assaulted, being sexually assided when they're out,

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Speaker 2: whether they be exercising early, whether they be in their

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Speaker 2: house and someone's trying to climb through their window, it's

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Speaker 2: a defensive option that someone can utilize and it may

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Speaker 2: give that person an additional feeling of safety in their

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Speaker 2: own home or when they're out.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Katie, there's no doubt that community safety is the

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Speaker 5: number one priority for territories at the moment, and I think,

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Speaker 5: you know, the use of OC spray may give you know,

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Speaker 5: some people some comfort and security, and I think that

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Speaker 5: absolutely matters, definitely, But I think it is truly an

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Speaker 5: admission of failure by Lifanokiaa and her government that they

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Speaker 5: can't keep territory in safe that now people it's in

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Speaker 5: our own hands to keep ourselves safe because the government's

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Speaker 5: not there to be able to do it. I think

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Speaker 5: the further investment into supporting our police would go a

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Speaker 5: long way into improving community safety and reducing crime, which

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Speaker 5: is you know, the mandate that so you always talk about.

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Speaker 5: I think the opportunity to do that will be now

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Speaker 5: with the Police EBA to make sure that police are

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Speaker 5: getting the best pay in the country that they have the.

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Speaker 1: More about the EBA a bit later on the show.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think, you know, the checks and balances

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Speaker 5: will be really important because at the moment, the COLP

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Speaker 5: government is announcing things without having done its homework, without

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Speaker 5: having done its due diligence, and without being able to

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Speaker 5: talk about some of those risk factors that are coming

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Speaker 5: up in this conversation just you know, forty eight hours

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Speaker 5: since the announcement, I have details.

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Speaker 1: Say to me throughout this week as well, you know, Wilfee,

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Speaker 1: I sleep with a metal rod under my bed at

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Speaker 1: the moment, or I've got a baseball bat that I

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Speaker 1: sleep next to, you know, with next to my bed

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Speaker 1: at the moment. You know, I've had people contact me

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Speaker 1: with all sorts of comments like that, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I would say to everybody, you know, you err on

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Speaker 1: the side of caution if ever having to utilize those

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Speaker 1: kinds of things if somebody gets inside your house. But

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Speaker 1: I think the fact is that in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: at the moment, and this is not new Like I

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Speaker 1: am certainly not going to pretend that this is a

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Speaker 1: new issue under the current Northern Territory government, because it's

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Speaker 1: something that I've been screaming about for years on this

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Speaker 1: show and speaking to victims of crime every single day about.

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Speaker 1: But the fact is, at the moment, people don't feel

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Speaker 1: safe in their own homes. I mean, you've got these

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Speaker 1: situations that we spoke about earlier as well, where women

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Speaker 1: have literally woken to people on top of them inside

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Speaker 1: their rooms, on their beds, you know, I can understand

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Speaker 1: why we've reached a point where we're kind of going, well,

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Speaker 1: what personal protection measures can we take as a community.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's right or wrong, I really don't know. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that we probably will wind up

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Speaker 1: in a situation at some point where oc spray is

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Speaker 1: used in an unintended way. But at the moment, we've

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Speaker 1: got people using machetes, we've got them using cars, We've

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Speaker 1: got them using all sorts of things in unintended ways

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Speaker 1: as well. Does that make it right? I certainly don't

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Speaker 1: want it to descend into a situation where we're all

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Speaker 1: trying to defend ourselves in different ways, but we're a

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Speaker 1: bit crooked at the moment, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 1: the crime.

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Speaker 3: And I guess in some ways that's the point. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't seem like, it doesn't seem to me to be

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Speaker 3: a solution. Like I mean, I'm a bit of a

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Speaker 3: I'm a big, burly bloke, right so I'm not the

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Speaker 3: right person to give an opinion as to whether you know,

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Speaker 3: someone might feel safe for carrying pepper spray as they

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Speaker 3: go for a run in the morning or a walk

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Speaker 3: at night or whatever. And I absolutely understand the point

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Speaker 3: you're making there, and I've heard other women make that

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Speaker 3: point this week. But when it comes to fixing the

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Speaker 3: issues of crime, you know, I haven't heard a groundswell

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Speaker 3: of community opinion saying we need to be able to

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Speaker 3: carry peppspray. I hear a lot of people. In my

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Speaker 3: personal opinion is we need a lot more police. I

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Speaker 3: feel like the biggest issue we've got at the moment

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Speaker 3: is we just do not have anywhere near enough police.

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Speaker 3: And anyone who's tried to get help from police will

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Speaker 3: be able to tell you that because I know that

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Speaker 3: in the instances where I've tried to get help from

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Speaker 3: police in the last twelve or eighteen months, it's bloody difficult.

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Speaker 3: You end up unless you call triple zero. And I've

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Speaker 3: called Triple zero. I've been on a whole for five minutes.

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Speaker 3: But if you call the General Police helpline, you're probably

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Speaker 3: going to be on hold for ten minutes or more,

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Speaker 3: and then you're probably going to be told that unless

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Speaker 3: you're in a situation where there's an immediate threat to you,

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Speaker 3: that there's not going to be a police officer coming

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Speaker 3: anytime soon.

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Speaker 2: And in regards to those police numbers, we are recruiting NonStop.

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Speaker 2: Police Attrition has now dropped to its lowest rate in

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Speaker 2: three years. We are doing all the things we can

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Speaker 2: to get more police on the ground, and I have

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Speaker 2: one hundred and agree to you. There'll be further announcements

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Speaker 2: about how we can bolster and support our police. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's what I'm trying to get through to

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Speaker 2: everyone here that's listening this morning. No government, no government

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Speaker 2: has done more since coming a power to ensure that

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Speaker 2: we give police the powers they need, the tools they need,

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Speaker 2: and now backing them in so that they stay in

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Speaker 2: the police force rather than leave. And we were seeing

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Speaker 2: attrition rates under the previous government, Katie of eleven percent.

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Speaker 2: We had more police leaving than what we could actually recruit.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to stem that flow, recruit new people and

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Speaker 2: ensure that they have the tools they need to keep

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Speaker 2: us aurce which.

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Speaker 3: And that raises the only other question I had about this.

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Speaker 3: And I heard the Deputy Chief Minister speaking about this

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Speaker 3: on radio this morning, and he's saying that the police

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Speaker 3: are going to basically run this trial. And I just

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Speaker 3: wonder when our police resources are stretched to the absolute limit,

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Speaker 3: whether you know what the logic is behind giving them

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Speaker 3: another because it doesn't seem like it's going to be

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Speaker 3: an easy thing to organize and to run. Suddenly police

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Speaker 3: have got this to manage as well. I'd rather my

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Speaker 3: police out patrolling the streets than dealing with how they're

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Speaker 3: going to manage the goronmentation.

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Speaker 2: Let's think it's more about working with them about the

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Speaker 2: necessary safeguards and the regulation. So you mentioned before some

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Speaker 2: of the concerns you had, Matt, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: about saying, well, police are best, as you rightly said,

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Speaker 2: they see secondary supply on all these things. How can

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Speaker 2: we work best with police to ensure those safeguards and

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Speaker 2: regulations are in place to alleviate a lot of those concerns.

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Speaker 1: Look, we might take a really quick break when we

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Speaker 1: come back. I am keen to continue this discussion and

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Speaker 1: also speak more about the police calls for those pay

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Speaker 1: negotiations to really be sorted out, sooner rather than later.

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Speaker 1: We'll take a quick break. You are listening to Mix

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Speaker 1: one O four point nine three sixty. It is the

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Speaker 1: week that was. You are listening to the Week that

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Speaker 1: was in the studio with us this morning, We've got

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Speaker 1: Josh burgoin Matt Cunningham and Selena Yubo. Now, we were

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Speaker 1: just speaking about police resources and I think that it's

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Speaker 1: pretty safe to say across the Northern Territory at the moment,

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Speaker 1: everybody would like to see more please on the ground.

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Speaker 1: And the Police union enjoined me on the show. Earlier

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Speaker 1: in the week, the Police Association's Northern Territory president Nathan

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Speaker 1: Finn and was talking about the pay dispute. Now he

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Speaker 1: did issue a statement and say talk tough on crime,

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Speaker 1: abandoned those who fight it. That's the message Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: police are hearing loud and clearly from the COLP government

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Speaker 1: following its latest shameful payoffer. Two officers providing their promises

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Speaker 1: were nothing more or sorry proving their promises were nothing

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Speaker 1: more than political spin. Now, Nathan Finn saying the government

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Speaker 1: was elected on a law and order mandate and it

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Speaker 1: leaned on police to deliver it despite the force already

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Speaker 1: being stretched to breaking point. He said, when it comes

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Speaker 1: time to show up for police with meaningful recognition and pay,

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister is nowhere to be seen.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: I had Joe Hersey on the show yesterday. She said

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Speaker 1: that what is on the table at the moment, I

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Speaker 1: believe is four percent in the first year, three point

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Speaker 1: five percent, three point five then three percent. Now Nathan

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Speaker 1: Finn had said that what the police are after is

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Speaker 1: five percent. I know it's a really difficult sort of

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Speaker 1: path to get into where you're having to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to give every public servant a pay increase. But we've

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Speaker 1: got to be competitive surely when it comes to policing

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Speaker 1: and if we want to try and boost those numbers

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Speaker 1: to entice people to move here from other parts of Australia.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is five percent too much to ask Josh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, Ca, I want to be really clear about

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Speaker 2: this because I've been chatting to a lot of coppers

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Speaker 2: in our springs. I think there's been a lot of

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Speaker 2: confusion in regards to this around the housing. Housing was

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Speaker 2: something that they came out and said, ah, we're getting

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Speaker 2: rid of it, complete rubbish. Right now, police have a choice.

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Speaker 2: I think it's around thirty grand. It's probably a little

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Speaker 2: bit less, little bit more thirty thousand dollars that you

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Speaker 2: can get and then you go and sort out your

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Speaker 2: own accommodation when you come to the Northern Territory. That's

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Speaker 2: that's your housing deal or you can say, oh, just

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Speaker 2: give me your house and I'll move into that. My

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Speaker 2: old man, when he was a police officer, he took

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Speaker 2: the house. Means that police and have to manage, however,

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Speaker 2: many houses, just in case police want to want to

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Speaker 2: get given a house. A lot of police now are saying,

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Speaker 2: we'll take the money, we'll sort ourselves out. So what

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Speaker 2: we're looking at is, rather than managing all those houses

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Speaker 2: that there may not be anyone in, let's give police

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Speaker 2: the money they want and they can go out and

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Speaker 2: sort them out, so that housing is never off the table.

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Speaker 1: That's a bit different though too.

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Speaker 2: Is well exactly, I think it's it's very beneficial to

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Speaker 2: take the take the money because it's an allowance. It's

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Speaker 2: a housing.

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Speaker 3: Allowances, a thirty thousand dollars tax free allowance.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to I don't want to put

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Speaker 2: words in anyone's mouth, but we were never getting rid

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Speaker 2: of any of that.

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Speaker 3: Well no, I'm just trying to work out, well, and I.

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Speaker 2: Don't want to say it is if it isn't. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying. Okay, there's there's a housing allowance,

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Speaker 2: which is given my understanding as someone you know, an

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Speaker 2: allowance is generally tax free, but I don't want to

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Speaker 2: say it definitely is if it isn't. So in regards

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Speaker 2: to the house.

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Speaker 3: Does that apply to every police officer regardless of whether you're

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Speaker 3: in Darwin, Alice Brings, Tenant Creek, Catherine or Remote.

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Speaker 2: That's my understanding, so so right across the board. So

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Speaker 2: I've been speaking to Police Office as they've said to me, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm a police officer. My life's a police officer. The

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Speaker 2: housing allowance is great because that's a really good reason

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Speaker 2: to come into the Northern Territory because we can get ahead.

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Speaker 2: And I think the Chief Minister rightly said, whether it

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Speaker 2: was on this show or on the ABC other day,

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Speaker 2: including that housing allowance, we are the best paid police

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Speaker 2: in the country. So it's about working now with the

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Speaker 2: NTPA to come to an agreement. In the past, I

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Speaker 2: believe the previous negotiations I agreed on four to three

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Speaker 2: and three percent. This was at a time when CPI

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Speaker 2: so inflation was at seven so essentially they weren't getting

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Speaker 2: a real pay increase. Right now we know inflation is

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Speaker 2: a lot lower. I think it's around two and ared

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Speaker 2: and half percent on not the treasure but and what's

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Speaker 2: being offered, as you rightly said, Katie, is four to

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Speaker 2: three and a half. Three and three is the numbers

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Speaker 2: I have in front of me. So what we're offering police,

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Speaker 2: we value the work police do. This is a pay

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Speaker 2: negotiation like any other pay negotiation, and we'll continue to

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Speaker 2: work with them so that they feel like they get

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Speaker 2: a good deal and everyone gets a good deal out

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Speaker 2: of this. That's what it's about, working in good fights.

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Speaker 5: Josh, Can I just ask, because we've also heard rumor,

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Speaker 5: is that the grandfathering of those housing entitlements that you're

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Speaker 5: talking about is what's being presented as part of that EBA.

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Speaker 5: Do you know any more around that or is that

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Speaker 5: something that we'd have to ask your colleague about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I don't know about that. I think the

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Speaker 2: biggest frustration for me is that when I speak to

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Speaker 2: people on the ground, they're saying, what's going on with

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Speaker 2: this housing I want to really just say to people,

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Speaker 2: you're not losing your housing allowance. Let's be really loud

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Speaker 2: and clear in regards to that.

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Speaker 3: The question, though, did you promise before the election that

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't touch the housing allowance in any way, shape

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Speaker 3: or form, because that's that's what the NTPA says that

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Speaker 3: the cops promised before the elections to protect it, was

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Speaker 3: that that housing allowance would be unchained.

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Speaker 2: What we're saying is that the housing allowance is being protected.

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Speaker 2: In what form it is, I don't know, but at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, we'll work with the NTPA

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Speaker 2: if they don't want that. If they say no, we

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Speaker 2: want the option, hey, we'll work with them around that.

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Speaker 2: But I think they were happy to give them they

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Speaker 2: there was well, let's work through the negotiations. The whole

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Speaker 2: point is is that when you're able to save money here,

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Speaker 2: you're able to give them.

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Speaker 3: More their It sounds like what you want to get

436
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 3: out of the businesses house of managing houses, well and

437
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 3: just make that a payment rather than.

438
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 2: These are the negotiations that are underplay, and I think

439
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 2: that's really important for police officers out there to understand

440
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 2: we're never going to take away your allowance. It's about

441
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 2: working the best way forward to how we provide housing

442
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 2: here in the Northern Territory.

443
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 5: For police and Katie, I just would hope that the

444
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 5: government will make the commitment that any new officers that

445
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 5: are sworn into the Northern Territory are able to access

446
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 5: those really important housing allowances and entitlements so that they

447
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 5: don't miss out. Because our understanding at the moment is

448
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 5: what is being proposed is it'll be grandfathered out, so

449
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 5: the current police officers will keep their entitlement depending on

450
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 5: which one they choose, as Josh's explained. But our worry

451
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 5: is that any new officers to the Northern Territory will

452
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 5: not get that entitlement, so it would be great to

453
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 5: get some clarity around them.

454
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: Look, we must have police officers listening to the show

455
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: this morning. I know they do, but I've got one here, Hi, Katie,

456
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 1: the police housing is not tax free. Another one, Good morning, Katie.

457
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 1: Are police officers sacrifice more than will ever be known

458
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 1: or acknowledge. Their wage and housing conditions must be exceptional

459
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: to maintain them and to keep the Northern Territory police

460
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: force attractive. That is just part of what that text message.

461
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 3: How does it pay for? Maybe some of these people

462
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 3: can text him, how does the pay for a Northern

463
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 3: Territory police officer? I'd be interested to know compared to

464
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 3: the other states in the country, because it's not news

465
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 3: to anyone that they have a much tougher job than

466
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 3: anyone anywhere else in this country. You know, what they

467
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 3: see every day, the level of crime that they're dealing with,

468
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 3: the type of issues they're dealing with, the domestic violence

469
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 3: in particular that they deal with, and what they see

470
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 3: every day. And you've seen with the coronial inquest in

471
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 3: the death of Michael Dutram just a couple of weeks ago,

472
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 3: the impact that can have on people who are doing

473
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 3: this job. So I think there's an argument that our

474
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 3: police need to not just be paid at the level

475
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,120
Speaker 3: of anyone else in the country, but at a level

476
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 3: well above anyone else in the country. Otherwise we're going

477
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 3: to have the issue that we already have now, which

478
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 3: is that we can't attract enough police to come and

479
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 3: work here.

480
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 4: Well, that's exactly right.

481
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: I think it's a very good point, and certainly the

482
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: coronial inquest into Michael Dutram's death has really demonstrated some

483
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: of the you know, some of the pain that police

484
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: officers face every single day and some of the issues

485
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 1: that they're dealing with and how difficult they can be.

486
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 1: Now we know that you still sort of in this space.

487
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: This week, the Northern Territory Police Force we learned are

488
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: going to be investigating on behalf of the coroner after

489
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: a man died in Royal Darwin Hospital over the weekend.

490
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: So the Australian Federal Police have received reports of an

491
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: intoxicated sixty eight year old man unable to board a

492
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: flight out of Darwin. That man was taken into protective

493
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: custody by AFP officers and was initially conveyed to the

494
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: Palmeston Watchouse before being admitted and whilst in AFP custody,

495
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 1: the custody sergeant and the nurse assess the man where

496
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: it was deemed necessary to convey the man to Royal

497
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: Dara Hospital for further assessment. Upon arrival, members noticed that

498
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: the man had lost consciousness. Medical staff were alerted who

499
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: immediately commenced CPR. Resuscitation efforts were successful and he was

500
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 1: transferred to the Intensive Care Unit in a stable condition

501
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: for ongoing treatment for what was a suspected medical event.

502
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: Now on Saturday night, that man passed away in the ICU.

503
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: The cause of his death remains undetermined pending a post mortem.

504
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: The man has indeed been remembered as a great visionary

505
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,959
Speaker 1: and educator as the remote Northern Territory community of Whateir

506
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: mourns his loss. It is the second death in custody

507
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: in twelve days. We know that separate investigations are being

508
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 1: conducted into both of those incidents. It's a terrible situation.

509
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 1: There is no other way to put it. And as

510
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: I said, you know, the Northern Territory Police now investigating that,

511
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: but that man was in the hands early on of

512
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: Australian Federal Police. But look, the Police Association, I guess

513
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, these are two incredibly difficult and tragic situations

514
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: and quite different, you know, each of those situations quite

515
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: different from what we've been told by the Northern Territory Police.

516
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: But earlier in the week, the Police Associations Nathan Finn

517
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: joined us on the show. He said that he had

518
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: full confidence in the Northern Territory Police to investigate the incidents.

519
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,239
Speaker 1: He has been in Alice Springs or had been and

520
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: seen the police involved in the situation in Alice Springs.

521
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: He said, it is a tragedy, but those police were

522
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: forced to respond, you know, they could not walk by

523
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: in that situation. Again, I want to point out that

524
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: they're very separate situations, but the police overseeing both of those.

525
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: We have spoken about this for the last week or so,

526
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: the situation in Alice Springs. I mean, can the Northern

527
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: Territory Police investigate that death in custody or do we

528
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: need to see an independent investigation here? Nathan Finn said,

529
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: we do not need. The Northern Territory Police are absolutely

530
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: capable of conducting that investigation.

531
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Caadie, And firstly, I do just want to extend

532
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: my condolences to the family friends in the community who

533
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: are mourning this loss at the moment, that's what we

534
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: need to start with this as a person that's lost

535
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: their life. In regards to the question about who should

536
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: be investigating it this, the Northern Territory Police are the

537
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: appropriate body to undertake this investigation, as they would be

538
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: in any other jurisdiction. It's really important that we allow

539
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: police to do their job. As you spoke about, the

540
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: person was initially in the AFP custody, which I think

541
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: really does highlight some of the previous cause in regards

542
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 2: to AFP investigating the third desting custody, that the Northern

543
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: Territory Police are the appropriate people to deal with these investigations. Obviously,

544
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: whether there needs to be a coronial after all this

545
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: that will go through that process as well. We have

546
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 2: these processes in place, we need to allow those investigations

547
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: to take place because at the moment there is a

548
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 2: lot of speculation both in regards to what's happened in

549
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: Alice Springs and now up here. Let's allow that investigation

550
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: take place, the facts to be laid bare, and then

551
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: obviously we can all find out what has actually occurred

552
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: in estimates.

553
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 1: I know that the Minister of Disability Services jins and Charles,

554
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: was grilled by Kat McNamara over the Alice Springs death

555
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: in custody during estimates and questioning why he hadn't issued

556
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: a statement. I mean, I feel as though the reality

557
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: of this is we saw following on from these situation

558
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: in You and Demou a few years back, where politicians

559
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: were commenting on things that really I don't know whether

560
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: it was appropriate for them to be commenting on. It

561
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: became a bit of a spectacle in a lot of ways,

562
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: and I do feel as though it is you know,

563
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: it is maybe a situation where politicians do need to

564
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: step aside for a moment let the police do their jobs.

565
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: But I'm keen to hear everybody else's thoughts.

566
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: Well, I think if you go back to the shooting

567
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: death of Kumunjai Walker, we did see that we sought

568
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: too many people saying too many things, including the Eykak commissioner,

569
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 3: if you will remember, who got up at a rally

570
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: in Alice Springs and made some incredibly bizarre comments given

571
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 3: the position that he held, which was supposed to be

572
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: overseeing the police investigation into that matter. And I know

573
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 3: there have been a lot of calls for an independent

574
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 3: investigation into the death of Kumenjai White and that police

575
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 3: that those that the people calling for that independent investigation

576
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 3: don't have confidence in the police to properly investigate themselves.

577
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: It should be noted. And I think Nathan Finn made

578
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 3: the point the other day that the most recent example

579
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: we have of an incident like this that the people

580
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 3: who were most aggrieved by that investigation were the police

581
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: officer who was charged with murder five days after the

582
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 3: event and many of his colleagues who felt that that

583
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: was done in haste. Now I've had private conversations with

584
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 3: senior police who've explained the reasons why that happened, and

585
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 3: there was an opinion sort from the DPP and the

586
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 3: advice was given, but there are there are, there are.

587
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: I think when you have all this noise around an

588
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 3: issue like this, it makes it really hard for the

589
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: people who are trying to do their job to do

590
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: their job. And I think that's the area that we're

591
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: waiting into again here. You know, it's really difficult. I

592
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: know that emotions are running really high, and people, you know,

593
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 3: want to see a just outcome, but I think a

594
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: lot of the political commentary probably makes it unhelpful for

595
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: those who are already in a really difficult situation.

596
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, and Katie, just going back to your earlier point

597
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 5: around the Memph Nightcliff's questions to the Minister of a

598
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 5: Disabilities Jins and Charles, I think the frustration that I

599
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 5: saw in that line of questioning was around you know,

600
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 5: Jinson not actually even offering condolences, like I mean, Josh

601
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 5: just did it then? Like it? You know, everybody feels

602
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 5: in the territory when something trag happens, when something scary,

603
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 5: horrific happens in our community, we all hurt, we all

604
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 5: feel that, we all emphasize, and I think that's really

605
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 5: important when it comes from our leaders and it's not

606
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 5: to politicize. I think you know that, you know, people

607
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 5: do know when a politician is politicizing something for their

608
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 5: own gain, and that'll be for the public to genuinely

609
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 5: respond to. But I think in this case, when we

610
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 5: see a loss of life of any territory, and you know,

611
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 5: it's kind of a natural feature for our leaders to

612
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 5: provide that condolence. But going on to your point around

613
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 5: the independent inquiry, Katie, and you know, supporting some of

614
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 5: the calls for that, not just to say that the

615
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 5: police will not do their job.

616
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 4: I absolutely believe that they will.

617
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 5: But in terms of providing an opportunity for police to

618
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 5: feed into that becomes more of a neutral response because

619
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 5: whilst police have their duties to investigate what has happened,

620
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 5: and obviously now with the two deaths in custody two

621
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 5: weeks apart, and as you said, under very different circumstances,

622
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 5: there's no public facing response that either those police officers

623
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 5: can even provide in that sense. They'll do their duties,

624
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 5: they'll do the investigation, and they'll obviously do their job

625
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 5: is what we want them to do. But in terms

626
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 5: of providing not just family community response, but allowing a

627
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 5: platform police to feed into to then hopefully create a

628
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 5: space and recommendations so that we don't see a repeat

629
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 5: of what's happened in the last two weeks.

630
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: But that's essentially a coronial investigation there.

631
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 4: It is the coronial as well.

632
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 5: But I think what we've seen in the territory Matt

633
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 5: is two very highly communicated deaths that have now led

634
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 5: to some uncertainty around procedures, and I think that repairing

635
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 5: that confidence is really important for the territory.

636
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 4: We are a small jurisdiction.

637
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 5: Like if you don't know someone you know someone who

638
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 5: knows them. You know, it's a two degrees of separation

639
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 5: in the territory. And that's why if we're talking about

640
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 5: an independent process, I think that would be a really

641
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 5: good move forward in terms of being able to provide

642
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 5: certainty for police, as much as community and as much

643
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 5: as the families.

644
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 3: What does what does that independent process look like? That

645
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: what are you talking about? Are you're talking about someone

646
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 3: else investigating the criminality of this incident or are you

647
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 3: talking about something else?

648
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 5: Well, I think in the terms of what I understand,

649
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 5: particularly what the families call for and the support in

650
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 5: the sense in our Springs and come in Jay White

651
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 5: and the death that was experienced in our springs. It

652
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 5: would allow that process to similar to a coronial, I understand,

653
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 5: allow that process to come out, but also allow the

654
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 5: input for police to say what are our procedures whether.

655
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 4: You're on duty or off duty, etc. And being able

656
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 4: to provide that.

657
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: And I like a coronial inquiry, but not done by

658
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: the Northern Territory Coroner done by someone from outside.

659
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 5: I understand Matt that the coroner will still do their

660
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 5: duties as required in it.

661
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: To faith in the coroner to do that.

662
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 4: I absolutely have faith in the coroner.

663
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 5: But I'm thinking if we're to move forward together as

664
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 5: the community in the Northern Territory, if this is a

665
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 5: way to move forward together, then I think that's a

666
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 5: positive moment.

667
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: I'm just sorry to labor a point, but I'm just

668
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: trying to get my head around who you think should

669
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: do the inquiry and what exactly that inquiry should look into,

670
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: because because the calls from the family, I think are

671
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: that the Northern Territory Police should not investigate the alleged

672
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: criminality of what took place in that Cole supermarket. Are

673
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 3: you comfortable with the Northern Territory Police investigating that or

674
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: do you think someone else should investigate that.

675
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 5: I think if there is a mechanism of oversight, then

676
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 5: that would be again a constructive way to move our

677
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 5: community forward.

678
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: I just think though, we then fall into the potential

679
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: situation where what other cases will we want to see

680
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: somebody else independent that's not the Northern Territory Police investigating

681
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, different incidents. And I understand that in this

682
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 1: situation we are talking to death in custody, but I

683
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: do note that even the calls for security vision to

684
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: be released, that's not something that you know, that we

685
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: had spoken about throughout the tragedy that was the death

686
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: of Linford Fike. Now, I know that they're very different situations,

687
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: but I think if you start to go down the

688
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: path of releasing security vision and doing certain things in situations,

689
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: how can you then tell other Territorians that they're not

690
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: able to receive the same level of treatment from, you know,

691
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,239
Speaker 1: from the Northern Territory Police, or not able to have

692
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: that same releasing of information from the Northern Territory Police.

693
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: And again, I know that they're very different situations, but

694
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: I just think that it's a it could potentially be

695
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: a slippery slope to sort of start going down.

696
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: It is, Katie, and this is what frustrates me. I

697
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: had a gentleman who was riding home from work one

698
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: night many years ago and a car run a red light,

699
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: stolen motor vehicle, killed him, ended his life. Now that

700
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: person died and his family, they called for peace, they

701
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: called for calm. There was no release of footage of

702
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: the incident occurring. It went through a process and at

703
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: the end of the day, that person that killed that

704
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: man was charged. I had that person's family in my office.

705
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: You know. I hear what everyone's saying right now, Let's

706
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: just let the investigation take place. Let's stop politicizing this.

707
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: We've got professional act of us in our springs right

708
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: now who are egging on some of this stuff, and

709
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: it's really upsetting myself. As a community. We've just come

710
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: through what we've been dealing with out at Indamu. We

711
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: were about to have the coronial fightings handed down, which

712
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: again would have been extremely hard for everyone involved the

713
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: community out at Indomo. That's been pushed back in light

714
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: of obviously what's happened. We need to be able to

715
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: work through these things and right now Unfortunately people are

716
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: trying to make mileage out of this. Let's just allow

717
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: the investigation to take place, allow the findings to come out.

718
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: I think there's another point that's probably worth making, and

719
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 3: that is the calls for an independent investigation have been

720
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 3: pushed really hard by MALANDERR. McCarthy, the Minister for Indigenous Australians,

721
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: and Marian Scrimger, the Federal Labor MP. They have the

722
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: power to make that happen if they want. The Federal government,

723
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: if it wants to, can overrule the Northern Territory on anything,

724
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 3: they can make so. So the ball in this instance

725
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: is the Prime is in the Prime Minister's court. Right

726
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: if he wanted to, he can say I don't trust

727
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 3: Northern Territory to independently investigate this matter. We can step in.

728
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: Here's what he said in relation to this matter at

729
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 3: the Press Club on Wednesday. He said, now, in general,

730
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 3: the idea of federal intervention, which is frankly an easy

731
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 3: thing that people come up with, why aren't you sending

732
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: the AFP, Why aren't you doing that? With that? Without

733
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: then saying where it leads, He said, I'd need to

734
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 3: be convinced that people in Canberra know better than people

735
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 3: in the Northern Territory about how to deal with these issue.

736
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 3: That's my starting point. I think it comes up all

737
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 3: the time with the range of issues. So the Prime

738
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 3: Minister appears to be saying, why would camera investigate something

739
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 3: in the Northern Territory, and he doesn't appear to be

740
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 3: on board with what his representatives here in the Northern

741
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: Territory are saying on this issue.

742
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: Look, we are going to take a really quick break.

743
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three point sixty.

744
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: It is the week that was. If you've just joined us,

745
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: we've missed a busy morning. So far, we've got Josh Burgoyne.

746
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: We've also got Matt Cunningham and Selena Eubo in the studio.

747
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 1: Now it has been the first week of budget estimate sitting.

748
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: I like to say on this show, I listen so

749
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: you don't have to, but I tell you what it's.

750
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: Been hostil I.

751
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 5: You're respond to your viewers, don't have to come.

752
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you it was pretty boring.

753
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 4: No, Look, I tried.

754
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: I tried much longer than the normal Parliament and I

755
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: did listen for several hours yesterday afternoon there was a lot,

756
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: you know, there's always a lot of doing and throwing.

757
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: But one of the interesting bits of information that has

758
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: come through that the Northern Territory News Cam Smith reporting

759
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: this morning that almost two months after he announced his resignation,

760
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries Chief Executive Andrew Kirkman

761
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: is going to continue to be paid by Territory tax

762
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: payers until August, when his contract was due to expire.

763
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: The opposition Attorney General Chancey Paig uncovered the anomaly during

764
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: estimates hearings on Thursday, so yesterday now, mister Pig tried

765
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: unsuccessfully to get a straight answer out of mister Kirkman's boss,

766
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: Jered Maylee about the bureaucrat's employment status. Mister Pike saying,

767
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: are you able to confirm if the former chief executive

768
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: is still being paid as the chief executive? Mister Maylee saying,

769
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: I can confirm he hasn't resigned. So again that question

770
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: would be to the Department of Chief Minister and Cabinet

771
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: who are handling the recruitment process. Mister Pike saying, so

772
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: you're unable to confirm or deny if Andrew Kirkman is

773
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: still being paid as a chief executive, Jered Maylee saying,

774
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is he hasn't resigned and he's still

775
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: being paid. Exactly what level. You'd have to talk to

776
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: the Chief Minister's Department and I would ask you to

777
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: pass that question to them. What is the go Josh?

778
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: Is he still reckon?

779
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: Let Selena talk rubbish and then I'll come in at

780
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 2: the end and clear up any issues.

781
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: And I'll clear it up. I watched this estimate, Oh

782
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 3: did you he didn't.

783
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: Have to die?

784
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: And I nearly fell off my chair. I was like, like,

785
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 3: so chancing. He's asking the questions like I thought he

786
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: must have known something. So he asked his question and

787
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 3: he's like, can you confirm whether Andrew Kirkman is still

788
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 3: being paid? I thought that's an odd question, and then

789
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: you know, Jared sort of started to waffle a little bit,

790
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 3: and then the acting CEO whispers in his ear, and

791
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: next thing you know, he says, no, he hasn't resigned.

792
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: He's stood down, as though there's some difference. I don't know,

793
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 3: but it's weird because on the seventeenth of April, there

794
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 3: is literally a story in the Ant News where Andrew

795
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 3: Kirkman has told his colleagues he's resigning, and Jared Mayley

796
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: has said Andrew Kirkman has concluded his role as Chief

797
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: Executive of Officer, Department of Agriculture and Fisheries effective today.

798
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: I would like to thank Andrew for his dedicated service.

799
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 3: And yet, then, as Cam points out in his article,

800
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 3: you know, he emailed him and got an auto reply

801
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 3: sort of saying that he's on leave, but didn't say

802
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: he's resigned, Like, has he resigned or has he not? Really?

803
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 3: And how's he still been just setting paid?

804
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: And how do I get a job like that? Yeah,

805
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm just joking.

806
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 4: What's the cover?

807
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: Mister Andrew Kirkman's executive contract was due to expire in

808
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: August of twenty twenty five. As per the normal executive

809
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: contract management, discussions commenced approximately six months prior to the

810
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: expiring date. This is what happens with every executive contract

811
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 2: across public service. Six months to go, have a conversation.

812
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: Are you going to stay on? Do we want you

813
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: to stay on? Mister Kirkman was advised that his contract

814
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: would not be renewed, and he commenced leave immediately. He

815
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: officially concluded his role as the Chief Executive Officer of

816
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries on the seventeenth of April,

817
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: and any further inquiries in regards to mister Kirkman's role

818
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: can be so contract.

819
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 3: And in August, and you guys told him in February

820
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 3: presumably if he had to do.

821
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 4: It six months.

822
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 3: So that's the how come you? How come are you're

823
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 3: getting rid of you were getting rid of him.

824
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: This is what happens with every executive officer, mister Matt

825
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: Either you keep people or you don't. That's what ends

826
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: up happening. Okay, And they're tough discussions that happened in

827
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: regards to this. But if you work your entire life

828
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: and work your way up to executive contract, this is

829
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: what's in the executive contract. Basically, with six months to go,

830
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: you either say I'll take my six months pay out

831
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 2: and walk out the door or you say, well, I'll

832
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: go and leave.

833
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: And if you go on, like what sort of leave

834
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: is he on? But is it clearly paid leave? But

835
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 3: is it is it annual?

836
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: Is it until August? Just like a football player is

837
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: contractor you got to pay out their contract his contractors

838
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: till August.

839
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: So in that situation, why not let him continue in

840
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 3: the role until it expires in August, Because yesterday we

841
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 3: had an acting CEO is sitting in the chair who's

842
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 3: presumably I don't know, getting paid at the level of

843
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: a CEO. Well, you're paying someone else who's still contracted

844
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: to do the job until August to do the job.

845
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 3: That's not a smart way to run. Like if it

846
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: was a bit, no business would would operate like that.

847
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, he's got an executive

848
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: contract which finishes in August. He was advised that he

849
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: would not be continuing that role and he saw to

850
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: take leag That's up to mister Kirkman.

851
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: So do I know it's sick leave or recreational leaves

852
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: at the.

853
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: End of the day, I don't know all those particulars,

854
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: but I just want to clear up for everyone because

855
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: I hear it right, I used to be an electrician

856
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: that I didn't get all the perks in the world.

857
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: But I tell you what if when you work your

858
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: entire life to be an executive in government, these are

859
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 2: the perks that come with the job. The contract runs

860
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: out in August. So he either had the choice to

861
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 2: take the six months and walk out the door. He's

862
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: chosen to go and leave. The contract ends in August,

863
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: and that's what's happening.

864
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, Katie.

865
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 5: It's also not the only question that Jared Maylee as

866
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 5: the Deputy Chief Minister, couldn't answer in estimates yesterday. So

867
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 5: that was a big one that we thought, well, hang on,

868
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 5: this is very strange. It's, you know, why can't you

869
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 5: give us the responses that we would expect a government

870
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 5: to be able to provide in estimates and that level

871
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 5: of detail, which is what you know Matt's asking Josh

872
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 5: about now. But one of the other questions we asked

873
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 5: was there were some travel expenses by Minister Maine by

874
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 5: Jared to Daily Waters, and both trips had the same

875
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 5: reason for travel, but both trips had in excess of

876
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 5: two and a half thousand dollars. I think the first

877
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 5: trip was like two thousand, seven hundred in other expenses.

878
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 5: This is not travel, this was not accommodation, and the

879
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 5: second trip had a similar price tag essentially of other

880
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 5: expenses that couldn't be explained by Jared in estimates yesterday.

881
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 5: I think two thy eight hundred, so over five and

882
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 5: a half thousand dollars worth of other expenses and I quote,

883
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 5: you know, people who are listening, I'm quoting with my

884
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 5: fingers at the moment, not related to travel, not related

885
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 5: to accommodation, which Jared mainly is. The deputy Chief Minister

886
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 5: yesterday could not answer in estimates. He could not even

887
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 5: provide some type of random figure of what that was.

888
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 4: We've done calculations of what would that mean.

889
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 5: Would it be a high car cost on the ground

890
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 5: that is an anomaly that's not included in the travel expenses.

891
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 5: So that's very strange and that's absolutely not what territories

892
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 5: expect from a government who said that they were going

893
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 5: to be accountable, open and transparent with taxpayer one hundred dollars.

894
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he took that question or note, so we'll

895
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: get back, you'll get your answers in regard to that.

896
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: I mean, if you really want to go down this path,

897
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: who was the minister that went overseas on the junket

898
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 2: and cost territories ten fifteen thousand dollars taking everyone with them,

899
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: I mean.

900
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 4: Colin people.

901
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 3: The point is, the point is, Josh, it's not whether

902
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 3: they did or whether you did it. I think the

903
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 3: expectations from it. No one does public is it. You

904
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: know you paid well to have these jobs.

905
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 5: High seventeen dollars on shady without my husband knowing on

906
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 5: our joint account. You know, Like, how can well come

907
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 5: and spend five and a half thousand dollars?

908
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: Actually you cannot get on anything. Someone says, I'm traveling

909
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: down to the be Toloo, come and sit on the

910
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: plane with me. You go, no, I can't. I have

911
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: to pay for my seat. Because it's all about accountability.

912
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: Travels one is accounting every single dollar they spend.

913
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: And you will get back and answer in regards to

914
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: what those other.

915
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: I know what it was very well time and find

916
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: out their expenses.

917
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 4: Bizarre.

918
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: We are going to have to take a very quick break.

919
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three

920
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: is the week that was? Well, that is just about

921
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: it for us this morning. A big thank you, of

922
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: course to Josh Burgoyne for joining us this morning.

923
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: Thank you, Josh, Thank you Katie for having us.

924
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,439
Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham, thank you so much for your time. Thanks

925
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: Wilfe and Selena you both thank you so much for

926
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: your time this morning.

927
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 5: Katie and hope everyone has a great weekend when it

928
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 5: rolls around.

929
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, too good. It's this weather is absolutely glorious. It

930
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: is very nice, very nice, and remind you why you

931
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: love the Northern Territory. Right, Thank you all so much

932
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: for your time.