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Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now for the first

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Speaker 1: time this year.

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Speaker 2: Dave told that for the big issue is good morning,

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Speaker 2: Good morning Cadie. What's happened to you, Harley. He's lost

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Speaker 2: a bit of weight. He actually he doesn't really even

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Speaker 2: look the same.

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Speaker 1: Into David Little Prad's twin Matthew.

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Speaker 2: We haven't rolled.

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Speaker 3: That was supposed to be our secret.

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Speaker 2: You sound like this morning with us.

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Speaker 4: Before great, great to be here, and I got to say,

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Speaker 4: I'm truly honored to be in your company this morning,

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Speaker 4: a recipient of such an important gong, and good on

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Speaker 4: you too. I got to say, it's really I was

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Speaker 4: so proud of you when I heard that that you've

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Speaker 4: won that award, and it's so well deserved. That run

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Speaker 4: with Dad initiative that you've done is really taken off.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it's one of the things I'm proud

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Speaker 4: of that we've initiated in Darwin, and you're the person

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Speaker 4: behind that. It also Damien Hale's dad, Well yeah, well

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Speaker 4: I think what fifty years a school teacher, head master?

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Speaker 2: What a man? What an uncle like that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And very much like but you know died and woo.

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Speaker 5: Lefty dreadful school teacher, a school master type of person. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: well I got a family plagued with him. So school teacher,

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Speaker 5: school teachers. But you know, I'm a bit of a

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Speaker 5: black sheep in that school teaching.

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Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: Anybody I think who goes into the education system to

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Speaker 1: teach our kids and help us, you know, to educate

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Speaker 1: our kids, I think is very noble and very difficult trade,

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Speaker 1: especially in this day and age. So hats off to them,

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Speaker 1: but particularly Damien's dad fifty years amazing stuff.

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Speaker 3: And if you look at a lot of the award

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Speaker 3: winners from the Australia Day Awards, so many of them,

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Speaker 3: you know, serve the public in one way or another,

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Speaker 3: a lot of emergency services, firefighters, teachers, educators who will

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Speaker 3: do a wonderful job. And it is it's a very

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Speaker 3: high honor the Australian Awards, which you're obviously now.

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Speaker 2: I've always sought you a bit wake Did it cross

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Speaker 2: your mind to hen the gong back?

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Speaker 1: Oh God, no, you're not that.

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Speaker 2: I thought, bloody hell, how mad are some of these

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Speaker 2: How bad are some of these people? I think? And

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Speaker 2: how small minded?

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Speaker 4: And that the genuine meanness about the idea that Margaret

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Speaker 4: Court one one.

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Speaker 2: So now I know that they have no value at all.

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Speaker 1: I totally disagree with Margaret Court's views, but everybody's got

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Speaker 1: their personal views. And to me, you're actually awarded, you know,

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Speaker 1: these types of honors based on the work that you've done.

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Speaker 1: It's not based on your opinion. And if it was

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Speaker 1: based on your opinion, I might not have won an award either.

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Speaker 2: So you know, like I think we all.

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Speaker 4: Know, it's just a fantastic way of putting it, you know.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, really, the attacks on Margaret Court I

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Speaker 4: think have more been about the attacks on Christianity and

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Speaker 4: the like, because the views that she's peddling are standard

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Speaker 4: Pentecostal Christian views. You know, if you start bagging Margaret

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Speaker 4: Court for having those views, you're basically bagging everyone that's

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Speaker 4: involved in that church, including our Prime minister by the way. Well,

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Speaker 4: but you know, religious views, well it's a bit like

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Speaker 4: political views.

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Speaker 2: You know, everyone's entitled to form their.

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Speaker 1: And everyone's got very different views. You know, That's what

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Speaker 1: we've got to remember in this country. But all I'm

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Speaker 1: not you know, I don't want to hear people's I

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Speaker 1: don't want to hear hateful views but everybody's got very

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Speaker 1: different views.

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Speaker 4: Absolute But anyhow, Katie didn't want that to rub the

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Speaker 4: shine off.

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Speaker 1: Sure if you just tod But we caught up with

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Speaker 1: Alex Bruce, the CEO of Hospitality and Tea. Now, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to talk about this because I didn't actually

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Speaker 1: realize I wasn't aware of it. But there is actually

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Speaker 1: going to be a public hearing in Tenant Creek. I

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Speaker 1: believe it's next week around whether the BDR should be

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Speaker 1: rolled out in the pubs in Tenant Creek. Now, Alex

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Speaker 1: Bruce has said that there's lots of Territorians or lots

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Speaker 1: of people in the industry who are quite worried that

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Speaker 1: it's actually going to not only stop at Tenant Creek,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to see the BDR in the likes

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Speaker 1: of Catherine, Alice Springs and potentially even Darwin possibly. What

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Speaker 1: are your thoughts on this one?

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Speaker 3: Well, this, yeah, this popped up a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: that period in mid January there, and I think it

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Speaker 3: hasn't come from the government itself, It's come from the

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Speaker 3: Liquor Commission, and of course Tennant Creek has already got

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Speaker 3: a high amount of alcohol restrictions around takeaway sale of

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Speaker 3: alcohol and that kind of thing from themission. Yeah, that

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Speaker 3: was my understanding because.

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Speaker 1: What sort of people we got on the liquor comminguill

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Speaker 1: Alex did say, though, you know, I mean at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day that the Minister's made it very

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Speaker 1: clear that she has she runs the bead, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the BDRs. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I watched a press conference with Chief Innesst

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Speaker 3: Michael Gunner, and he was asked about this and he goes, look,

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Speaker 3: it's not on our radar. But yeah, if it was,

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Speaker 3: the complexities around how that would work, to me, would

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Speaker 3: override any kind of reward that you know, you would

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Speaker 3: see from that in minimizing alcohol harm. I can't imagine,

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Speaker 3: you know, that would the complexities around it would just

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Speaker 3: be too high.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the best way to minimize alcohol harm is to

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Speaker 4: get people into jobs.

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Speaker 2: But I'm working all that.

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Speaker 4: All these other draconian sort of things I think are

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Speaker 4: absolutely useless. You've got to get people working and committed.

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Speaker 4: When people lose hope and direction, they turned alcohol and

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Speaker 4: all sorts of things. Yeah, the vast majority of Territorians

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Speaker 4: don't have a problem living with alcohol. They drink responsibly.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's only a handful of people that cause

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Speaker 4: the trouble. But in this case, the government seems to

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Speaker 4: think it's okay to take the big stick to everyone.

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Speaker 4: You know, people share a different view to me, think, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, say what about showing your license in a

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Speaker 4: bottle shop? But I think this has got to be

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Speaker 4: the only place in the world you have to do that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, showing my license at the bottle shop

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Speaker 1: doesn't bother me too much. But then when we go

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Speaker 1: into a pub, if you're shouting your mates and Alex

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Speaker 1: made this point, do you need to ask everybody that's

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Speaker 1: in there whether they're on the BDR? No, are you

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Speaker 1: going to get surprised?

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Speaker 2: You know, like, what are you going to what are

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Speaker 2: you going to do? It's just ridiculous, Big brother or William.

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Speaker 1: We'll have to wait and see what happens there. We

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Speaker 1: might take a very short break. When we come back.

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Speaker 1: I'm keen to talk about this comcext State of the

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Speaker 1: State reporter. We also know we've reached some pretty bleak

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Speaker 1: numbers with COVID, but we'll see what else you've been

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Speaker 1: talking about. Hey, Hey, Dave, I was about to call

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Speaker 1: you Hayley, David, this is happening.

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Speaker 2: Were Simon wats this morning?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I might have a live read

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Speaker 1: for him actually and in just a moment, so I

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Speaker 1: hang on, it's a big one or four point nine

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Speaker 1: three sixty is the big issues now, Dave, in your

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Speaker 1: experience as a former Treasurer of the Northern Territory, do

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Speaker 1: you take reports by com sects State of the State's Report,

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Speaker 1: which we know has been released, do you take those

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Speaker 1: seriously or do you put them in the recycling book.

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Speaker 4: I gotta be honest with you, Katie, I think we've

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Speaker 4: got a chance to lead up here. I think Michael

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Speaker 4: Gunner should be writing the reports on the states. You know, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, look it's pretty obvious Michael knows better. They're

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Speaker 4: amateur mob this Comsex. They can't see it well performing economy.

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Speaker 4: When when Jimmy in their face and you know, I

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Speaker 4: just think, well, goodness me. You know, clearly he's a

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Speaker 4: cut above.

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Speaker 2: So we'll get the chief to start to write the reports.

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Speaker 4: You know, and clearly in his mind it's good that

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Speaker 4: you have billion dollar deficits and eight point four billion

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Speaker 4: in debt and people leaving the territory in droves. You know,

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Speaker 4: it was not a bad economy.

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Speaker 1: When you were the treasurer, did you used to read

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Speaker 1: those concept reports like how would you do it?

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Speaker 4: When you're the treasurer, those sort of reports are basically

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Speaker 4: a report on the job that you're doing, you know,

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Speaker 4: by independent bodies. And it's not just comsect that does them.

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Speaker 4: There's a mile of them.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: Credit ratings are determined by Murdy's. You know, they're all

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Speaker 4: expert organizations in one way, shape or form that you know,

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Speaker 4: there might be parts of those reports that you don't

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Speaker 4: agree with, or parts where you think they've they've misunderstood,

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Speaker 4: and you can always ring them up and say, listen,

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Speaker 4: you know you put out this report and i'd often

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Speaker 4: do that, you know, have you taken this into account?

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Speaker 4: You know, every now and again and you find they

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Speaker 4: haven't or whatnot. But to sit there and just stray

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Speaker 4: they think in the bee I think is completely nuts.

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Speaker 4: It's like getting a report card and saying, well, your

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Speaker 4: teacher is a fool.

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Speaker 2: You know, starts well and you sort of start to

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Speaker 2: wonder as well. You know, sometimes you do have a

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Speaker 2: teacher that's a fool.

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Speaker 4: But to sit there and say, well, you know anyone

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Speaker 4: who's questions a way where in the economy is a fool?

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's that I've sort of got is eye.

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Speaker 1: Think to myself, if we're not using the comsept report

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Speaker 1: because we feel that it's it's going off the average

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Speaker 1: from ten years ago, which was the Impacts boom, Well,

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Speaker 1: what are we using to benchmark.

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Speaker 3: Side of the Deloitte report which came out late last

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Speaker 3: year where he said we were actually ranked in the

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Speaker 3: top two in some areas around economic recovery post COVID

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 2: Something like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the eighth straight report that we've been

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Speaker 4: the worst performing jurisdiction in the country, the eighth straight

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Speaker 4: when they only come out six monthly.

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Speaker 2: So that's four times we've been for four years.

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Speaker 4: We've been at the bottom of the of the problem

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Speaker 4: since basically a report on Michael Gunner's job as Chief

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Speaker 4: Minister and now Treasurer, and he's failed, he completely failed.

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Speaker 1: But is it dangerous for us to head down the

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Speaker 1: path of thinking that a report like concept should just

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Speaker 1: be put in the recycling bit?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think you know, there's a bit of a

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Speaker 4: head in the scend approaching the territory across the board.

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Speaker 4: People just don't want to see the reality. I think

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Speaker 4: that was certainly the case in the last election. No

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Speaker 4: one really wanted to talk about the debt, the deficits,

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Speaker 4: or how we had to get out of this mess.

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Speaker 4: And you know, if we're not prepared to address the problem,

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Speaker 4: if we're not prepared to acknowledge the problem, we're not

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Speaker 4: going to be able to address it. You know, the

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Speaker 4: first thing is to acknowledge that you've got a problem.

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Speaker 4: But if you're sitting there saying, oh, well, anyone who

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Speaker 4: tells you've got a problem and go, oh, you're a liar, Well,

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Speaker 4: how can you possibly address a problem that you don't

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Speaker 4: think you've got. And you know, I'm a little sad

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Speaker 4: that there's probably not more territorians taking a bit more

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Speaker 4: interest in the finances of government and the state of

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Speaker 4: our economy because it is pretty glam I.

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Speaker 3: Think we need to because those reports are not sexy

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Speaker 3: though if you look at them, not sexy, and maybe

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Speaker 3: that's why.

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Speaker 4: But the thing is, you know, and I'm sure you're

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Speaker 4: aware of this, you know, people like treasurers and captains

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Speaker 4: of industry and that sort of stuff. We'll look at

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Speaker 4: those those reports in detail, you know, I always did.

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Speaker 4: You know, like I said, it always was a report

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Speaker 4: card on my performance in comparison to other jurisdictions in

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Speaker 4: the country.

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Speaker 2: But you know, if you're not going to do that,

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Speaker 2: if you're just going to throw.

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Speaker 4: That out the window, you know, ultimately, I mean, those

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Speaker 4: people are the ones who create.

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Speaker 2: The information community has right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, ultimately the treasurers will take that on board,

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Speaker 4: the media will take that on board, and slowly that

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Speaker 4: information will filter out to the community in a much

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Speaker 4: more understandable fashion than you'd read it in the comsect.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, you know, the big thing that I

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Speaker 1: keep going back to is we kept you know, we've

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Speaker 1: been talking a lot over the last few years as well,

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Speaker 1: not only about the economy, but about the population and

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Speaker 1: how we sort of grow the population and our issues

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Speaker 1: with the declining population. We've heard from the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: again this morning that you know, they're going to be

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Speaker 1: launching a new campaign where they're trying to fill some

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Speaker 1: of those skill shortages that we've got in the territory,

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Speaker 1: which is good in theory.

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Speaker 4: Population has always been a problem. I got say, Katie,

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Speaker 4: then fairness to Michael. Michael Gunner made an election issue

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Speaker 4: of it. He's done that a couple of times now

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Speaker 4: that he was going to grow the population. But I

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Speaker 4: recall probably my second budget, So this is going back

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Speaker 4: to twenty thirteen. Population was declining then and we had

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Speaker 4: an amazing growing economy. The economy I think at the

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Speaker 4: time was growing by five or six percent, got up

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Speaker 4: to ten point four percent, but the population just wasn't occurring.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I always thought the underlying problem that

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Speaker 4: we've got in the territory is our population is not

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Speaker 4: growing quick enough. Yep, but I mean population is now declining.

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Speaker 4: We've gone backwards. We almost lost her.

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Speaker 1: What it can we struggle so much to grow the population.

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Speaker 1: I mean, matter you lived here when you were younger,

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Speaker 1: then you moved away, and then you came back, Like

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Speaker 1: what draws people back?

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Speaker 3: I think growing up here there's a sense of small

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Speaker 3: town syndrome for a lot of people. I think if

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Speaker 3: you grew up here in your formative years as a child,

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Speaker 3: in teenage years, I think you reach eighteen nineteen and

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Speaker 3: in some ways people go, I've seen everything that Darwin

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Speaker 3: has to offer in the Northern Territory hards, I want

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Speaker 3: to know there's that appeal to go to the big

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Speaker 3: cities in the bright lights. So I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: within your teenage years, there's that element. And then I

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Speaker 3: think the nature of work up here as well as

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Speaker 3: very transity as well, whether it be you know, defense

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Speaker 3: for us here in media. You know, there's hardly anyone

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Speaker 3: in this building that worked here three years ago, and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of workplaces of this as well.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think there's a lot of factors. But

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Speaker 3: I left at twenty one because I'd kind of grown

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Speaker 3: up in Darwin and I had that appeal of the

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Speaker 3: big city, bright lines and everything.

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Speaker 2: Well, there has to be understanding, Katie.

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Speaker 4: You know, you know a lot of people growing up

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Speaker 4: in Darwin, I think would feel the same. I grew

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Speaker 4: up in a little country town. Couldn't make to get

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Speaker 4: out of the joint. It was too small one to

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Speaker 4: go and see the world. But you know, there's a

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Speaker 4: whole range of them that do go out and see

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Speaker 4: the world and like Maddie come back. You know, there

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Speaker 4: are those obviously who saw the world and then ended

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Speaker 4: up here and going, holy hell, this is like the

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Speaker 4: greatest place in the wild. And I've been here now

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Speaker 4: thirty five years. I came here for three months to play.

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Speaker 1: The basketball and then you're still here.

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Speaker 2: You know, and I'm still here.

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Speaker 4: But you know, I think the fact is you do

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Speaker 4: have to see the world to understand why dar and

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Speaker 4: he's such a good place. And you know, we don't

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Speaker 4: have half the problems that we do in the rest

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Speaker 4: of the wyd. You we're wearing a whole lot more

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Speaker 4: debt these days than the average person anywhere in the country.

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Speaker 1: I always find interesting though about our population strategies now,

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Speaker 1: incentives to try and get people to move to the territory,

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Speaker 1: and even this morning, you know, we've heard the same thing.

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Speaker 1: We're always sort of going down the track of trying

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Speaker 1: to entice people from those major capital cities. So we've

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Speaker 1: sort of said, you know, we're trying to get them

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Speaker 1: from Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne. I think it was New

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Speaker 1: Zealand and New Zealand. I actually reckon we're better off

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Speaker 1: trying to attract people from other parts of regional Australia.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you grew up.

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Speaker 1: In regional Queensland, Darwin seems like a bloody good place.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's a bit bigger than where you grew up.

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Speaker 1: There's lots of opportunity depending on what.

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Speaker 2: Field you're in. So I wonder whether we're trying.

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Speaker 1: To market ourselves to the wrong people.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes in a lot of regards to Darwin is a

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Speaker 4: you wouldn't say unique, but it's almost unique. Amount of

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Speaker 4: overseas migration, we get it, you know, we get a

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Speaker 4: lot of people coming in from particular Asian regions and

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Speaker 4: that sort of stuff. We've got a large Asian history

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Speaker 4: in the in the territory and population growth in the

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Speaker 4: territory has only ever been sustained by two things, and

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Speaker 4: that's the birth rates in indigenous populations where they're actually

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Speaker 4: producing more than you know, the average Australian and overseas

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Speaker 4: migration immigration coming to the to the territory. But population

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Speaker 4: has always sort of been ebbing out of the territory

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Speaker 4: and has only been boosted by those two factors.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, and I wouldn't know. When I was in

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Speaker 3: Brisbane as well, you know, I studied journalism there and

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Speaker 3: of you know, our cohort of about one hundred graduates,

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Speaker 3: everyone wanted to stay within Queensland as well.

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Speaker 2: I think that's more than marine was thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: the mighty.

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Speaker 3: There's that It's not like it's it's maybe it's something

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Speaker 3: that I know the Goverment's always.

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Speaker 2: Looking at ways to market the territory.

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Speaker 3: But it's something that we you know, when I said,

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Speaker 3: oh I've got a job in Darwin, They're like, oh

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Speaker 3: my god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah there's there's you know, there's jobs there, opportunity like

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Speaker 2: the parts of a Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Outside of the stone, you're never on the radar.

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Speaker 2: Well, i'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: Time flies in here for the big issues that is.

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Speaker 1: So we've got time for this morning. Told wonderful to

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Speaker 1: have you back in the.

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Speaker 4: Stot to be with you, Katie. Greg being good to

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Speaker 4: see Maddie too. Disappointed me, big mate, didn't I know,

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Speaker 4: have a bit.

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Speaker 2: Of a always I reckon.

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Speaker 4: Take Michael's opinion over com sick any day of the week.

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Speaker 1: Jave Toler. We'll catch you again next Wednesday. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for your time, Maddie. Hepworth will catch you

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Speaker 1: again in about five minutes with the local news.

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Speaker 3: We'll see you so mach Thanks mate, thank you.

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Speaker 1: By you are listening to Mix one O four point

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Speaker 1: nine three sixty. It is the big issues